Paul Murray Live | 10 September

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1:29The theory is, watch the game, come visit the country. We will have three games in Australia for the NFL over the next five years. Tonight on the show, we'll get to winners and losers of the week. We're going to have a chat to a politician who is absolutely taking into the government when it comes to these rorts that are taking place. And Colin Flynn will join us from the US. But obviously tomorrow is the 25th marking of September 11. If you lived that history, you remember exactly where you were and how we all felt at the time. We knew that something had been changed. We knew that something had changed forever. Little did we know how much was going to change. But it's important to remember that while we lived that history, there are millions of Australians, about seven million Australians, who were too young or not born. So they don't remember what it was like to go to the airport and not have the levels of security that exist when it comes to flying.

2:32The idea that there was an Australia that was able to hold in Olympic games at the beginning of the 21st century, in a relatively low security environment, only a couple of years later to see everything change when you go into a public place. Those people who didn't live it don't remember. One of the many things that was so frightening about that particular night was it dawned on us. That because they used planes to hit a building that anything could be a weapon and everything could be a target. The people who didn't live the experience of 25 years ago don't remember the moral clarity about wanting not just to avenge the dead,

3:32but more importantly to punish those who were responsible. History, of course, is something that we only get to live a small sliver of obvious reasons. History, of course, is thousands of years in that direction. The physical history of the earth, millions of years before that. And as the generations change, what we live through becomes something that we tell our kids about, that eventually becomes something that kids read about. And in the same way for Gen X, we read about World War I and Gallipoli, but we didn't know anyone who had physically been through it. So it had gone from being this nation that was forged in the crucible of World War I to being an item in a textbook. I never thought World War II would become like that because it was my grandparents.

4:35It was perhaps your parents. It made it even been you who was right in the middle of that lived experience who remembers the moral clarity for why they had to stop the Nazis, why they had to repel the Japanese about what was on the line. Again, similarly, about the Bali bombings, when Bali had gone from a place where generations of Australians had gone on holidays until 88 Australians were murdered in the worst possible way. And again, this peaceful place that you didn't even think was going to be a problem became something where you started to look over your shoulders. Just recently, of course, we have all lived the history of Bondi, the idea that a celebration in summer of your faith would be anything other than a lovely memory for a family.

5:42For that generation of people who have grown up post 9-11, they don't remember the moral clarity of the war or the need for the war on terror or the line in the sand that we're saying, this is not going to happen. We're not going to have the change in the world, so they don't remember the clarity about why we had to strike back, about why it was Afghanistan, about why there was a singular focus on trying to make sure that everything's a weapon, anything as a target doesn't happen here. So, of course, strengthen love to anyone with a personal connection to any of this history, specifically the history that will be marked in the next couple of days. But it is, behovered on all of us, to not be able to replicate what it was like to live through the history, but to be able to pass on the clarity of feeling that you had

6:46in the moment and the day after. Because the further you get away from that, there's a whole bunch of people who want to add context. The black and white must be turned into grey again. But just as we felt in Bondi, September 11, Bali, World War II and the list goes on forever. The world changes and it changes forever. On an individual level, it could be a horrific accident. It could be a terrible crime. It could be an awful medical episode. And when you're young, there's not a massive chance of any of that happening. So, somehow you think history happened to somebody else. The message to anyone who wasn't born for September 11 is, guess what, history is going to happen to you. And it does change you. And there's nothing wrong with seeing things every now and then that are black and white, right and wrong.

7:48Because those traumas are what help build us into the people that we are today, to what we demand of our governments, to how we interact with each other as citizens, to the conversations that we have each and every night. So, Labour's Red Hot Rot. That's the best I can get right now, but we'll get further onto our final nickname for it. Keep setting the emails here. This, of course, is the absolute disgrace. That was the government putting half a billion dollars aside and then doling it out like they were rappers in a strip club. It was raining cash. Unsurprisingly, it was raining cash in mostly labour seats. But remember, spending is nothing new to the bloke who has tipped us past a trillion dollars in debt. Remember every single day, a billion here, a million there. A $7.2 billion in assment today. $5 million. $10 million. $200 million. $3 billion. $3

8:52$250 million. $2 billion. $37 million. $842 million. $2.4 billion. $8.5 billion. $4.8 billion. $1 billion. $3.4 billion. $2.8 billion. $200 million. And it goes on and on and on and on and on. A little bit like history. There's deficits. Remember, the intergenerational report says deficits for the next 12, 40 years, but who cares? Look over there, joking lambies yelling. Seriously, the big stories. But of course, beneath all of those major announcements were these small announcements, but they all add up to the half a billion dollars that we've been talking about for a couple of nights here, a red hot-raught scheme. One, that even channel nine, even channel nine who normally give them a free pass, well, they saw how dodgy this is. Remember? Whereas the sports rort scandal involved a selection process that was corrupted by

9:54politics, Labour's infrastructure grants program seemed to have no process at all except to curry political favor. Sports rorts was pork barreling by deception. This is pork barreling by design. Unbelievable, right? Now, remember, all of this comes from a report. The report was, one that showed us very clearly here, and this one, of course, again came from that centre for public integrity, and it showed here $400 billion, compared to $128 million. It all ended up going where the government wanted it to go. Now, the Prime Minister is cockahoep. There's nothing to see here. Don't worry about the Marigold Gulf course. I'm going to argue, you know, the wording of your question, the point is it's dodgy. And when apparently we're so dodgy that Liberal Ministers had to go and we had to change the government, what the hell's going on here? You just saw it, but Helen Haynes, hardcore lefty. We would disagree on many things, but tonight I'm going to get her on because I want to talk about how do we change this system? How do we fix this system? Because she has walked

10:58up and put the black eye right on the Prime Minister's face, and he is trying to ignore it. So I'm not going to ignore her, despite how much we probably won't agree on much else, but we'll have a chapter of Helen Haynes in a couple of minutes time. Now, I have tried to avoid, for the obvious reasons, the back and forth between Andrew Hastie and Pauline Hanson. You know what it's about? Why it is happening? You know why it is political life and death? You will have also noticed that the Senator from Tasmania, who doesn't like the Pauline Hanson, has been able to create a national movement. Because remember the Jackie Lamby network was supposed to be the national network. Yet instead, it only had one extra MP, that MP, of course, left and became member of the Labor Party. The Jackie Lamby network in Tasmania literally said at an election that they were running with no policies. So the Jackie Lamby political model, generally speaking, is to turn around, have

12:01somebody else come up with an idea and then wait to see the reaction and go, I'm going to champion all the people who had, it's a brilliant, it'll keep her in the parliament for a long time. But she's decided, well, to kill two birds with one stone, one which is a stand-up for Andrew Hastie because of his military service, something that I admire and something that if you really remember the history of this program, I was very loud in defending Andrew Hastie because remember the disgraceful allegations that were being peddled around by the age from memory at the time, about actions on the battlefield, I knew them to be BS and we defended, we defended staunchly, Andrew Hastie as the right person to go into the parliament and now he has gone into the parliament. But Jackie Lamby can send some sort of blood in the water here. Be it what she thinks is Pauline Hansons because they won't take down the cartoon or maybe Angus Taylor's because Hastie's the next leader. Anybody that hides behind a cartoon and goes after a

13:08veteran and calls them a traitor, a paranoid traitor and a washed up gutless maggot, I have to say you're a bloody maggot yourself and you're a coward and Hastie's right, call her out because she's a bloody coward. Okay, now as I've said before, the one thing above everything else that I do admire about Jackie Lamby and her ability to be appropriately outraged just at the crest of the wave. So she's never responsible for the idea but she's the one of the crests of the wave just the most angry on the day, right? Is that she is always standing up for veterans and I have no problem with that whatsoever and while she'll be throwing something in the television if she's watching anything now or when she watches the video a little bit later. Can I just say to Jackie Lamby, I admired your rage when it was about something a little more important. I loved your rage about trying to get rid of the cap on veterans' allied health. Remember the speeches in the parliament, she's never going

14:10to stop arrogantalbo.com.au. She's got the ability to maintain the rage, I would love her to maintain the rage about something that will help tens of thousands of veterans, tens of thousands of veterans. We stand with them in their fight with the government and send it to Lamby, you're on the inside, fight for them as loudly as you have in the past as quietly as you may behind the scenes but you thunder each and every day because again the internal fights in and around Andrew hasty normal people don't care. But a little warning about what I think might also be going on here. So Andrew hasty very obviously is the most obvious next in line when it comes to being the leader at the Liberal Party, whether he gets there before the election or not, we'll all wait and see together, right? The polls are the polls, he's got to convince his colleagues fine fair enough,

15:10right? That's the way it goes. But there's a lot of people in the media and always be where the lefty media who start to champion one liberal above all else, that this is the obvious and absolute and you bet your leader and I'm talking about the type of media who always hates the Liberal Party, you know, like nasty Nikki Savo, the self-limited liar, I feel free to Google it, it's all there. Well she of course is sort of pumping up the times, like this is the next leader, the good idea, the next good idea, you know, they always, the Canberra media run on this idea that there's some liberal leader who's just, you know, one step back from the current liberal leader who's like the perfect liberal leader, the one liberal leader that will get them to not vote green, not vote labour or not shive the lives at every chance they get. But guess what? Every time that person ascends to the leadership, they disappoint the lefties because guess what? The Liberal Party is not a left-winger political party, there might be a lefty faction in it, but it is a centre-right political party.

16:16And if they think that they've got Goldilocks and Andrew Hastie as potentially the second coming of a leather jacket, you know he says this about net zero, right Nikki? The truth is that Labor's net zero is a massive giant green tax on the Australian people, it's a tax on families, it's a tax on small businesses and it's a tax on heavy industry. And if we're ever going to get advanced manufacturing going again in this country, we need to axe Labor's net zero tax. And this about immigration Nikki. And then of course we're going to cut immigration because we think net overseas migration should be pegged to housing completions. So I'm not getting into the fight, I'm not picking a sign between Hastie and Hanson. I'm saying people like Jackie Lamby who are taking, that's there's something else going on there. But again, just a word of warning, when the media is surrounding a Liberal and saying you might be the one to unpick the lock, guess what? It never unlocks, it never unlocks

17:17instead it turns around, it always, always bites you on the bum. Now to Victoria, no, then we cannot come soon enough, there is a desperate need for the state to change tack, desperately, right? And we know that there is a million reasons for it, but for me the single biggest one is that the state has fallen into a morass of grey corruption. That's not me making it up. That of course was what the former ombudsman had said, when essentially the difference between the public service and the political party at all sort of becomes nothing, it all becomes the same thing. Everyone is in service of the party and you don't end up as a free place anymore, you end up as sort of some mini CCP, which I'm sure Daniel Andrews is more than happy to replicate. But there are a couple of organisations like the Broadbase Corruption Commission, IBAC,

18:18or the ombudsman who every now and then drop a report like the one that exposed that Ben Carroll, you know, the Premier is absolutely different than everyone he's ever worked for, or ever sucked up to or ever done the job for. I'm definitely not just into it. I'm definitely not Daniel Andrews. Oh, so the auditor general says you came up with a tax that you didn't tell everyone about, oh, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, we're getting rid of it, please vote for me. I'm different, I'm different. So there is pressure on the Victorian government with what little time they either have in office or before the election where they may well go round again, anything's possible, nothing is inevitable, nothing is inevitable. And this programme no one wakes up surprised, all right? Everything is possible, including a return of a terrible government. Was new legislation to guess what? Give more power, more focus to these agencies, because as I told you before, the state budget actually took money off the integrity organisations. But guess what? None of the changes are going to be retrospective, meaning Alan, Andrews,

19:25all the ministers with the sergeant shorts, I know nothing, defence, well, they won't apply. It's only forward facing. She's in that, what a wonderful way of pretending that the Jedi mind trick works. Well, of course, they are in a position right now that if you're going to draw up new laws, then guess what? Let's increase the transparency and let's widen the scope to say guess what? They can look back in anger. And rightly so, it's what Jess Wilson wants to happen, it's what you'll vote for. Even if it means she doesn't get to take that clobbering stick to a state election, here she is. The legislation says here, in black and white, if I-back has received a referral in the past about a matter that it has dismissed, that it has referred on or that it has investigated, then that referral cannot be investigated by I-back. This is Ben Carroll's legislation. Ben Carroll approved this to go to the floor of the parliament.

20:27We will amend it, we will amend it to make it fully retrospective, and I invite Ben Carroll to support our amendments to make sure that I-back has the power to investigate the largest corruption scandal in this state's history. Direct fingers crossed, she's the next premier of Victoria. You want somebody with that sort of energy and clarity and youth and focus. A chance to reset. It is their Victoria. It's up to you. Fingers crossed, it's taken. It happens in November, but till then, can they do something about the dam roads? How often do we talk about this? I don't trust government to be able to fix our education system or heal the sick or to pay down the debt if they can't fix a freaking pothole. Because it's the little things, right? If you can't do the little things, then I how the heck am I going to trust you on the big things? Interesting stuff in the age here. Almost half of all of Victoria's roads are in poor condition. This comes from the Auditor General's Office. Again, something not totally controlled by the government, hence why the report could not be hidden. Almost half of the state

21:30government's managed roads are in poor or very poor condition. We decline outpacing repairs. Forty-eight percent of state roads were considered in poor or very poor condition. That's jumping by almost a quarter from 2021. 2024 data reveals more than a third of state roads. It just got five years of useful life left. To give you an idea, here's a map of Victoria, the darker the color, the more there are potholes. Surprise, surprise, the darker they are, the further you get away from Melbourne. Just wonder why those people aren't going to be voting Labour. Why they're probably going to be voting one nation. In terms of specific areas that have got a world of problem, there are 445 potholes in two-on. Mornings and peninsula, 382. Karengamite, 305, Wangarata, 260 and all the rest you can see on your screen right now. And even then, don't just fix the potholes, here's an even bigger idea. Fix the freaking roads. The Harrodsson made this excellent observation today.

22:34Potholes are just a symptom. The real issue is what's hidden underneath. Many moons ago, when it came to road maintenance, Victoria prioritised road rehabilitation and road resurfacing. Ripping up the road and rebuilding it before potholes even have the chance to appear. And then you add major flooding events in 2022 and 2023. And things took a turn for the worst. The government poured heaps of funds into quickly patching up the road. Long term maintenance was slashed and roads were left and expected to handle heavier traffic for longer periods of time. Roads are already slightly cracking and water has the chance to seep down into the foundations, weakening the base of the road. So when heavy cars and trucks now drive over, the road literally collapses in on itself, causing what we like to call a pothole. I love when there's not enough explainers on the internet. I love that stuff. Well, under the Harrodsson.

23:34Now, Donald Trump, as you know, every four years, presidential election, every four years, the party puts on a giant convention. It is a guaranteed way of being given at least an hour of prime time TV for multiple days in a row. Trump's been very successful with these, of course, in 2016, obviously not 2020. And then again, a couple of days after he'd been shot at in 2024. So the midterms are coming up. This is where the Republicans who are in charge of the Senate that picks all of the people and approves the ones to be in his cabinet or the judges could go from being Republican controlled to Democrat controlled or the House, which impeachers presidents doesn't get them pushed out of office. That needs to happen at a trial in the Senate. But essentially the main power of the lower house of Congress is firstly, it can stop anything passing through the system because if you lose any one of those three, you're in a world of trouble. So November's a high stakes game. So Donald Trump has had a midterms convention. Nobody's

24:36ever done this before in the hope that he would be able to get guaranteed one hour of free airtime everywhere. He didn't get it. He got cable news coverage. And he turned up with a very big and definitely not stimulatory promise. Now we talk about pork barreling here. This could be the whole farm. If the Republicans win the House of Representatives and the United States Senate, I will issue a dividend to every adult citizen in the United States of America for $5,000. $5,000 for each and every don't. Albo, we can see you. $5,000 for each and every voter. Why is this happening? Because this is the latest opinion polls. And again, polls can always be wrong. Yes, they were in 2016. Yes, they were a little bit in 2024. Republicans currently being beaten by a pretty significant margin. Most likely, they're going to lose the House. There's a good chance they'll lose the Senate as well. Why? Because the president's disapproval ratings, it is what it is. Again, I take him over Kamala Harris all day, every day, every day, every day, every day.

25:41But is there a chance that a giant handbrake is going to be pulled on the presidency? You bet you, it happens in and around November. Helen Haynes is the independent member for Indy. She's been the one who has been making the most noise about this raw team of the pork barreling of the Labor Party in the lead up to the last election, $8 billion the majority of which, more than $400 million of which went to the Labor Party and Labor Party seats. Their spin, of course, is it's just their election promises. Hang on, it's tax pay or money. You have to give that to 150 seats, not just the red ones, right? Now, you would think that if they have been shamed as they have been this week, that they might pull their head a little bit. Instead, they are utterly shameless. I spoke about this with Helen Haynes, the independent member for Indy just a bit earlier. Oh, in fact, quite the opposite. They're proud of it, Paul. And this particular major and local community infrastructure grant program came to my attention last year when a community group in my community came to be

26:46and said, Helen, you've been indicating to us we need to put our hand up for a competitive grant for our golf clubhouse. We've been looking at all the grant programs and we've seen this one and we're wondering how do we get an invitation. And of course, when I asked the Minister responsible in question time, that precise question, how do you get an invitation? Quite clearly and proudly said, well, you know, this is fulfilling our election commitments, which really in my mind, Paul, is a euphemism for this is about us rolling out our pork barrel. Well, and this is the thing, right? I mean, the previous government got absolutely smashed for it and rightly so because it is overtly political. And here it is with the Labour Party, right? And the distribution of Labour to non-Labor seats tells the obvious story. I do love that the Prime Minister's office is out and about trying to go behind your back and say, well, you know, Helen might be going on about this, but she wanted money from this. She asked for lots and lots of programs. Yeah,

27:49but the difference here is you had to be invited. You had to be invited. It's not about asking. Well, to your point, I mean, every MP if they're doing their job right, Paul, is out and about in their community, talking to community groups, working with their local councils, really understanding where the glaring gaps and challenges and needs are and look, some things are wishless things, but some things are deeply, deeply important, like a bridge that doesn't flood when the water comes up in a wet year or a community infrastructure program that makes a particular area safer because of a better road, tourism projects. You name it. Arts projects, all sorts of things, local governments and community groups talk to their MPs about. So, you know, part of my job is to understand how big the need is, where the need is, and then I work really closely. I've got nine councils that I work with, a host of community organisations, not for profits and in fact, you know, regional development

28:53organisations. And together we put putting in a submission, every budget to the treasurer to lay out where the need is, and when I work with my community groups and indeed some of the budget submission says, look, this could be eligible under a particular grants program. This one hasn't got a grants program that would match it. And the point of that is to demonstrate to the government how big the need is and the big need is not just in targeted labour seats. I can tell you that. Well, but also, right, 150 MPs should be asking for a billion dollars for their seats because they may well be those sorts of, as you say, infrastructure issues, right? We know where the roads are like in Victoria. That's a state term. Yeah, that story tells itself particularly regional Victoria. I mean, honestly, some of the goat tracks that people are having to use, it's a disgrace. Let's talk about a fix here because again, let's talk about that. Yeah, both sides of government are going to try to turn around and say, well, look, this is kind of a two day story. Everyone moves on, oh, look, Jackie Lamby's yelling, quick, that's the 6 p.m. news. How do we get around this?

29:57Well, that's the thing. We can actually solve this poll because fundamentally we have to understand this money does not belong to the political classes. It does not belong to a political party. This is taxpayer money and governments are under obligation and public trust to spend it wisely. So how do we do that? We make sure that our grants programs are administered in such a way that the default mechanism and right now the grants guidelines tell us this that the best practice is a competitive grant. Great. Then we operate on this on a guidelines and principles, but they're not enforceable pool. So what I want to see is standards that are enforceable and this kind of closed invitation only whereby you know one knows how you get an invitation. Well, we all know actually, but it's not written down. It's not justified and then retrofitted guidelines that come after these people receive an invitation. That's not okay. We need to have standards that are enforceable

31:03and it needs to be overseen by a parliamentary committee that has members of the government of the day, of the crossbench and of the opposition. So we can all have eyes on it. And you know what, Paul, we'd all be better off. We could stop this stupid race to the bottom. As you know, I gave the Morrison government curry over sports roads. I'm not afraid to give the the Elbanese government curry over this one. We've got to get it right and we've got to get it right because we're an environment and we don't have a money tree. Every project can't get funded of course it can't, but we need to be fair and it needs to go to areas of need, public need, not political need. My observation of this prime minister, like all but he's the one in charge right now, at times they can be a bit petty, at times they can be a bit thin, skinned, at times they can be a little bit vindictive. Obviously not being a member of the government, do you expect any sort of retribution here that future applications go to the bottom of the barrel now because you've caused trouble for the prime minister this week? Well, that would be outrageous if that were to be the case and that would demonstrate a very

32:08very egregious bias, Paul. I mean, right now when it comes to a pork barrel, I like this, I mean, it's clear from the data that has been analysed so comprehensively by the Centre for Public Integrity that that particular fund has been targeted with bias to Labour held or needed to win seats. But I have confidence in the competitive grants process. I mean, that was the one that, of course, was, I mean, it was a competitive grants process in sports roads. That's why the ANAO was so scathing about this. But the competitive grants process has independent, independent assessments. It's, you know, anyone can apply if you meet the criteria, you get to put your application in. And I'm confident that that's, that is assessed fair and square. But what we're talking about here with this major community local infrastructure programme is not that. It's not a competitive process. It's a close shop invitation only to deliver on what Labour boldly

33:11tell us is completely alright. That is to go out into little communities and make promises using public funds. Correct. They're not open. They're the government. Thank you. Hello. Nice to talk to you. The lovely to talk to you too, Paul. Hello, Tainson. Sit with disagree on many things, but on this one, two broken clocks, same time, alright. Quick break back with more. We are going to talk about the Liberal Party's decision to say to the changes when it comes to social media, the political ups, downs and whether it's the right thing to do. Next here on Paul Murray Live as well as who is the winner and loser of the week. Thanks for watching. Shop Vons and Albertsons for fresh savings every time you shop. This week at Vons and Albertsons, get fresh boneless, skinless chicken breasts for £199 per pound limit 10 pounds. And locally grown grape-a-re cotton candy grapes are £299 per pound with digital coupon. Plus 24 packs of Canada dry or 7-up 12-ounce cans are £499 limit one with digital coupon. Enjoy fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in. These deals won't last.

34:14Visit vonsoralbertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. Imagine your friend tells you she's taking an innocent family trip to Greenville, South Carolina. We'll call her Emma. The trip sounds great to you. Hiking at John's Gap, dinner at Topsoil, a room at the best hotel in town. Harmless, right? Here's the thing. Emma and her family never return from Greenville. They disappear. You search for answers, but nothing adds up. Emma had a great life back home. You guys were best friends. What happened? Well, the truth is, once Emma realized she could have access to Michelin recognized restaurants, nature, local shops, and performing arts all in one place, everywhere else started to seem a little. Meh. Emma's vacation is a cautionary tale. If you're coming this way, don't forget to tell your friends and neighbors goodbye. Visit Greenville, South Carolina, but you may never want to leave. Learn more at visitgreenvillesc.com.

35:20Your path to pharmacy can be closer than you think. West Coast University's hybrid doctor of pharmacy program can be completed in as little as 33 months, and no bachelor's degree is required to apply. If you've started pharmacy coursework elsewhere, WCU may accept eligible transfer credits to help students keep moving forward. Learn online, train hands-on at our Center for Graduate Studies in Los Angeles and prepare for real-world pharmacy practice. West Coast University, as real as it gets, visit westcoastuniversity.edu. WCU cannot guarantee employment. That's where the action is. It's Sean B. Bell, of course, who is the One Nation Centre for New South Wales. Love it to see you both. So, I've noticed there's a little back and forth between Andrew Hastie, Paul Enhancin. My position on this is I'm not getting involved, right? Because I think there's bigger and better stuff to talk about, and I don't care about Jackie

36:23Lamby getting involved in it. Before we get to Sean, who I'm pretty sure is going to back in the position of his boss, party and cartoon, Lisa, your thoughts on this? Wow, what a week we've had in politics here in this country. Do you use junkies like us, Paul, who sit there and watch it all? There's been numbers of press conferences around this country this week, and interviews where you've just been on the edge of your seat, and certainly One Nation has been in front and center for all of them. I'm going to be Sean Bell to the punchy of Sean. I think I have a crystal ball. I think there is no chance in hell when One Nation is going to pull down that cartoon. No matter how much flak is thrown in your direction. And look, I think Pauline Hanson is around for standing by what she says. So I don't think her supporters at all will be surprised by that. I think as far as Andrew Hastie goes, he's a, I think as a war veteran, we have to respect our war veterans. However, he's talking about this, he's going to divide the defence community. If you have a look tonight, the RSL Australia put up a post online saying that basically it was inappropriate. I'm paraphrasing, but that's what they were saying.

37:23The number of veterans that are on there, the number that have called me tonight to say, we don't stand with this fight against One Nation. We think that it was satirical. Andrew Hastie is already a divisive figure. I think it's a defence community. So I don't think this is going to divide veterans as much as what Andrew Hastie thinks it's going to do. And for me, the timing of this, that cartoon came out a month ago. I think it's a political strategy now to jump on it because there's no way, given the chatter around Parliament House, that he didn't know that this was out a month ago and he decided to come out after that W.A. by election. Mate, I know when, and you know, Sean, I'm sure this is going to delight the people who occasionally hate watch the programme, right? But there is always someone in my life who decides to send me a link to a story I had no plans on reading from a website of which I barely know where it comes from. And they go, look, look what they said about you. As if he didn't know straight away where the cartoon was. Again, I'm not a big fan of that word being used, but again, that's a conversation somewhere else.

38:26I think that all of this, we all know what all this is about. It's about saving his own backside in his own seat. It's also about trying to sort of show that he's the one to take on one nation because Taylor can't, we get all the messages here, right? But isn't the problem for both sides of this? Is that when you're talking about this, you're not talking about a superannuation policy, which was the plan for the week, which was to talk about something to help people who are on the bones of their backside? Paul, I think it is a shame that this week, much of it about helping veterans and defeating bad legislation that the Albanese Labour Government has brought in to cap healthcare payments at $5,000. Some politicians have decided to go out and make this about themselves. And I was very proud today to work in Parliament with politicians from across the spectrum, Michaela Akash, when she moved an amendment to a government bill to fix that problem, to make sure that the health, the veterans got uncapped healthcare where they needed. We voted for

39:30that. The whole Parliament did, now that's to go to the lower house, it's up to the government to now deal with that problem. And that's what this week should have been about, but instead, again, others wanted to make it about themselves. And then things like the fact that one nation brought in legislation and voted on legislation to protect Australians against dangerous returned terrorist supporters, Labour Government voted against that. But people wanted to make it about themselves. We were trying to make it about keeping Australians safe. We were talking about our legislation, our policy to allow people to access a little bit of their super if they needed to help them pay for their groceries, help them pay rent and mortgages. That's what we were focused on, sadly, some other politicians were focused on themselves. Yeah. Now, I want to talk a little bit here about the social media laws, right? Because obviously, I'm completely with everyone who's made the point, including my dear friend, Peter Kretten, who's made all the points about what really is the point of the legislation. My issue with the libs coming out as hard as they have in the lower house is that I think this is a battle that can make it up to the

40:32Senate, potentially a whole bunch of other ways to highlight the individual problems here, because Lisa, even though no government is going to be able to get its hands around the evils of the Internet, and again, all of the justification for the algorithmic stuff is so kids don't see it, but hang on, I thought we banned that at the beginning a few months ago, right? So hang on, what are we worried about the kids for here? My concern is, as Sarah Henderson was talking to Peter a bit earlier tonight, is the power of the minister. I've got issues with that, but Lisa, the truth about this legislation, and this is the cold hard fact, so the libs are going to start kicking the telly as well here, right? We're going to fix big tech. We're going to take on big tech polls about as well as let's end homelessness, right? That anyone sitting on the other end of that instantly gets sent to the naughty corner, and I just think they had to be kind of clever about how they fought this, and maybe I think they fired the final shot a bit early. Am I wrong?

41:33Well, I just think it all sounds really simple. There's something what the average person is going to sound like a very simple argument. We're going to, like I say, protect children, but they're not thinking about the further ramifications. Here's what I found really interesting today, Paul. One of the Instagram bosses happened to be in Australia, and it was caught by the media. Now, he was here to market the tools that you can use to basically control your own feed. So I didn't know this, and I don't think many people do, that you can go into your settings, and you can edit your own algorithm. So why on earth, if the Zuckerbergs and the world are allowing us to do that, do we need an Albanese in there, then controlling what we can or cannot see? I think that's where the danger is, and the Liberals need to stand up against this, because ultimately it is free speech, and access to the information, it cannot be censored, because it's a very dangerous and slippery slope. Now, also, Sean, if I can give you a little homework here, or maybe you might be able to give me the answer here, right, is I bet there's a little carve out for political parties, that the switching off of the algorithm doesn't apply to their ability to be able to still get into your feed,

42:36because otherwise, why did every politician get an extra member of staff to help them make those crap social media videos? Well, I mean, that's news to me that anyone got extra staff. Yeah, it's certainly not one nation. Not one nation. And I will go have a look into that, Paul, but frankly, I feel like if they turned off the algorithm, it'll probably benefit one nation. I think the Labour Party needs to be worried here. Be careful what you wish for, because so much of the people I see, the different activists through organisations supporting Labour Party, they seem propped up and astroturfed by the algorithm. But that's a separate issue. The reality is the only reason the Labour government is out here talking about this stuff, using these persuasive terms, like digital duty of care, is because they're tired of hearing people say critical things of them on the internet, and they're trying to shut it down, whether it's their legislation to ban children from social media or this new digital duty of care, it's all a part of their broader agenda to silence your speech,

43:36silence the speech of everyday Australians. They don't like being criticised, and they start losing elections to one nation, and they rush to blame everybody but themselves. Very good point. Oh, the bots from over the east, come on, stop trading people like this, they're not mushrooms, we human beings. All right, Lisa, we're not a loser of the week, who stands out for you. It's a bit controversial, Paul Wiener, I think Warren Peekering won because he stood up and faced the music, and also in that, that he actually suggested that every MP, every candidate and every incumbent should be drug tested. I think that was a very interesting one to throw out there, and you can hear that the poll is running away from that immediately. Yeah, I don't know. Let's throw the political genos. Keep going. Yeah, loser of the week, Angus Taylor, because of all this gaffacle around the one nation cartoon, so many more people are going and searching it out and watching it, and Angus Taylor is being exposed for losing his balls. Yep, I'm now, well said, you've seen the video. You've seen the video. Yeah, you've seen the video. If you know, you know, all right, Sean,

44:38who's your winner? Look, I think the winner this week was veterans. I think that the parliament worked together to help correct mistakes that the Albanese Labour government had made. The battle's over, but when it keeps going, but I think seeing the vast majority unite, that's a win for veterans. And then I think the loser is Anthony Albanese, and frankly, he's often a loser every week, but this stuff you've seen with the sports rorts with the golf club. I mean, I'll give you a tip. You go into his Twitter. You Google the words golf club under his account, and a whole bunch of posts pop up with him standing with the president of the golf club, past grads this golf club. Like, he's attempting to try and distance his relationship from the golf club. It just proves he's going to be a preennial loser. I'm with you. Thank you guys. Do appreciate it. Send it a future. Send it a love and a say. All right, quick break. Back with more. Colin Flynn joins us 25 years since 9-11. He joins us from the US. Next. Thanks for watching Thursday night. Thank you so much for watching us here. Colin Flynn is the way that we like to end our week, each and every week. And of course, he is joining us from the United States, where in the next

45:42couple of days, the marking of 9-11 and 25 years on. I started the show with this whole thing of obviously history is a whole lot longer than any of our lives. But if you've lived it, you remember the sense of right and wrong. You remember the innocence that was broken in those particular moments. But there's millions of people, millions, tens of millions of people around the world who didn't live it. So that's why I hope they pay attention to the stories in and around the marking of the anniversary. And I hope that they get the clarity that we all had 25 years ago. Yeah, Paul. And it's tomorrow to the day 25 years since those incredibly darkened evil terrorist attacks. And sometimes I meet colleagues at work who are under the age of 25 and they have no living memory of the September 11th attacks, which is why you're right in saying that it's so important. We make documentaries like this. We reporting these stories. And I brought you a story last week from the fourth plane that crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. And today, Paul,

46:45I'm bringing you an inspiring story because there were stories of hope and heroism encouraged from that day. So many of them from Americans. This is from the North Tower of the World Trade Center. A man called Paul Kyrus. He was working Paul on the 71st floor of the North Tower. He was sitting at his desk on September 11th when the first plane hit. And it hit just around 10 stories above him. Now I sat down and did a 40 minute interview with Paul who you can see on your screen now and just him retelling the events of that day was incredible. But I want to play the first clip for you here. This is him talking about the moment he was sitting at his office desk on the 71st floor when the first plane hit just above him. Here's what he said. But the building tilted. And it tilted so far. For a split second, you thought it was going to keep going over. Really? And then it just started rocking back and forth. And did you feel that in your office that road? Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Lights then to go out. Yeah, some books fell from the shelves.

47:50But it was a significant tilt before it started rocking back into place. Your heart must have just while at that point, you we started seeing the debris coming down from above us. So there was a lot of flames and debris just falling outside our window. Here is where the moment of complete heroism came in because Paul, like everyone else in the office, ran for the stairwell. And he was just new in the job. He didn't know many of his colleagues. But Paul, when he went there, he stopped for a moment. And this is where he had to make a split second and what would be a life change in decision because he saw a woman, a colleague of his again, didn't know her. And she was extremely overweight, 300 pounds. She had helped conditions. There were people gathered around her. She was panicking because she couldn't go down the stairs. And then he looked and he said, guys, go, I'll help her down with her clinging to his arm and another on the banister. They made the slow journey down 71 stories, Paul. And inside the stairwell, they didn't know what was going on outside. They thought a small plane had hit you and I watching in Australia and Ireland and television, we had more

48:54information. But when the second building, when it collapsed, then they felt things getting much more urgent. Here's him talking about that moment. Partway down, she started praying out loud, Psalm 23. Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. And when she started doing that, I said, maybe I better start praying too. So I would pray unto myself. But whatever I was saying to her, it was all focused on keeping her comfortable. Sealing tiles were down, the smell of jet fuel, which I didn't know what it smelled like. It smells like caracene. It was really strong. Strong. And we got to the next stairwell. Again, we're still stopping twice the floor to let people pass us. We got to somewhere in the 20s. And it was just almost like a hurricane force wind

49:54came blowing up the stairs. I just knew it was something bad and that we needed to pick up the pace and get out of there. Because there were any less and less people. Another thing most people don't understand is there was enough time for most of the people below the impact to get out of the building. Because we were one of the last ones out. And I remember looking up and seeing the top of the North Tower starting to come down. How do we not get caught in that? Yeah. Such an incredible story, how they came minutes within death. And the beautiful thing about this poll to wrap up this story is that he saved Judith's life. But he would later want to say that actually she saved his life because it's in on this journey. Oh, there they are together. Started a long friendship. But he was living a lifestyle that he wasn't proud of. And she went on to describe him as an angel. And he thought, I'm the angel. So it's in on this journey where now he devotes his life to helping others and to keeping the memory of 9 11 alive.

50:59Good man. Thank you, Colin. We'll see you again next week. All the best to everyone who is Martin Yadol about this time tomorrow night in the United States. Quick break back with more here on Paul Murray Live. Before we are gone, let us have a look at the social media that has been happening while you were working. They, of course, are not working. They're just making crap videos like this one. This is a laboring P called Renee Coffee. Oh, and warning. It involves Rudd. I'm conscious it's been 18 months that our elected office has been serving our community. And we haven't had an official opening, but that's because there was just one person I wanted to have to do it. Hi, folks. I'm Kevin. I'm still from Queensland. And I'm here to help. See you next week.