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All right, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of The Tear Down. My name is Jeff

Gluck. I'm along with Jordan Bianchi. We are Motorsport Triders for the athletic and today we are

here to talk about the Phoenix Race. I'm here at Phoenix Raceway on an absolutely

picture-perfect, gorgeous spring day here. Very nice and warm. I could not ask for better weather

all weekend. It was great and a pretty entertaining and eventful race to discuss. So, Jordan,

how are you doing? I'm doing great and for Phoenix, I thought this was a really, really good

Phoenix Race. All things considered. Storylines, competitiveness. You had more lead changes than

since 2013. Yeah, different leaders in the mix. You had a lot of different strategies. You had

tire wear for Phoenix, which is often we consider not all the most exciting races or tracks. This was

what I off my memory, one of the more interesting, compelling, fun races we've had there in

some part. I just kept going back to how this race was won, where you would have had Ryan Blaney,

okay, he gets one loose wheel, is able to come back from two loose wheels, right? Well, before,

old Phoenix with the old package that really sucked and tires that were hard and all that stuff,

that arrow problems. I mean, he would have been wherever he would have come out

after his first loose wheel, not even the second one. It's probably where he would have stayed

for most of that race, right? Like, there was just a period of time in Phoenix with this next

Shen car where there was just really not a lot of passing going on, not very interesting,

and it's why the championship race, everybody called for the championship race to be moved,

it just wasn't compelling. Slowly, they've taken steps where good year has gotten the tire

much, much better. Look, I know there's blown tires today, but a lot of people discuss. They're

not running the recommended air pressures, right? That seems to be the cold, good year thing.

This is a team thing, and I think that's the important thing to emphasize is like,

don't blame Goodyear for this. They're doing what they need to do, and they did deliver a tire

that helped this product significantly. Yeah, and I think now you add in the more horsepower as well,

which again, is another step. It's not still what even some drivers wanted, but drivers all

weekend talked about how surprised they were that it was this much sliding around and this much

of a difference. The temperature was about the same as it was last fall, but the horsepower made

a big difference because it was obviously the same tire as last fall, and so look, we were able to

see a good show and you're able to see a circumstance where the faster car can make passes on a slower

car, right? Arguably, I don't know if you feel like Ryan Blaney or Christopher Bell were the fastest

car, which one of them was. They were clear that the two fastest cars, and you're able to see

somebody move up the field when they lose their track position. That's what made it an entertaining

day. If Ryan Blaney, by the way, had stayed out front the entire time and completely dominated

and led 300 laps. Maybe it doesn't look as good, but he had challenges. The circumstances allowed

for him to come up through the field. There was doubt of whether he could, there was doubt of

whether four tires could beat two tires. It all added up to sort of a racing purist type of race,

plus the casuals got plenty of wrecks. There was 12 cautions tied to track record. Again, as you

said, there was 23 lead changes. The most here since 2013, which was also 23 and before that, I

think it was 2011. There was 25, so it's been a long time since we saw this much action in a

Phoenix race, and I think it delivered. It did, and then Ryan Blaney being able to come up

through the pack. Maybe you get that once, right? You have an issue in pit road or something happens

early in the race, and you can slowly work your way up here and there. We've seen that happen

at these places, but he was able to do it twice, and he was making big moves. He's passing. They

said on the broadcast, they're making, you know, he's passing two, three cars corner sometimes,

and it wasn't just Blaney. It wasn't just like this one guy and his one team had a great car

and they were able to play race doors off. We saw with Carson Hosebaw early in the race. He

had a start in the back because of an unapproved adjustment. He's going forward. There was multiple

guys. Christopher Bell on four first tires. How many times do we say Jeff in these races? Man,

you would think four tires is going to make a difference, right? You want to see four tires

make a difference versus two. We saw that with Bell. You know, he had four tires and was able to

make moves at the end of the race there. Honestly, if you would have had a couple more laps,

you probably would have ran down late, but that's just how this fell. That's part of NASCAR.

Like you got a lot of things at Phoenix today that we have been missing and wanting to see for

the last few years. This delivered today. Yeah, look, I agree. I mean, I think that it's just one of

those things where, you know, you could say, oh, you know, I want tires to make even more of a

difference. Bell took four. You shouldn't get beat by two tire call, but, you know, again,

the caution fell right after that. So he only had what 15-ish laps or something by the time

of 12 laps by the time I got going again, and he was still eighth. So he went from eighth to

second in a matter of laps, but the fastest car was out front by then, and he wasn't going to

catch him. I mean, I think it was good that the two tires made enough a difference where

they could stay out, but it wasn't going to be amazing. Taking no tires we saw early was not the call.

It did allow you for varying strategies, right? So like, again, that's another thing we want to see.

There's been, it's easy to forget looking at a race like this today where you go, ah, well,

you know, there's been races where the tires are hard as hockey pucks. You could take no tires.

They don't even wore out or there's been obviously tire, there's situations where the track is so

worn. Everybody takes four. I like seeing the varying strategies and having to mix it up.

And so, you know, again, this race did give me a lot of what I was looking for, especially for a

Phoenix race. And I just, I know it sounds a lot of sunshiney kind of thing, but

how many have podcasts have we had after Phoenix where we're just like, man, this place sucks,

like this racing sucks. Why do we even come here twice a year? Like, should we, you know, like,

there's been so many of them for years, like over and over again. It's like, oh,

and so it's very refreshing to me to see that the changes that they've tried to make.

And really, all the races this weekend were excellent. I mean, the O'Reilly race, you had a great

battle for the win. The IndyCar race got rave reviews, especially compared to the last time

they were in Phoenix. You know, they're very racey race. So, I mean, I don't, if you are a fan that

came out, you know, this weekend, I feel like you pretty much got your money's worth for sure.

To that point, we have talked about this before. I really felt like this was a great celebration

of motor sports. And you had the IndyCar race. You had the NASCAR race. You were there, Jeff,

you know, but I was watching it on TV at the IndyCar race. It looked like a really good crowd

for IndyCar there on a Saturday. And it's, you had the Penske celebration across the board.

They're celebrating their 60th anniversary. You had the drivers, you know, intermingling,

and all these things. You had a great weather, great track, great racing. I like to see this.

I'm a big fan of these weekends. I don't think you can do them all the time. I think one,

maybe at the most two year, but I do want like to see, I'd like to see this on the schedule

in some facets on a regular basis, where you have IndyCar and NASCAR come together. And it can

just be this intermingling of two different series and just a celebration of motor sports in

this country. Yeah, I'll pour a little bit of cold water on that part of it. I think you're so

negative. I think that from a fan standpoint, you absolutely get that. And like, especially if you

had a ticket yesterday and you come out and you watch IndyCar, then you watch you

a Riley race and you get a full day of racing for, I mean, that's great, right? Two completely

different series and all that stuff. But in terms of like the intermingling. Yeah.

That wasn't like, for instance, so I, and this is my fault, right? But like, I didn't go get my

IndyCar, I didn't realize you had to have an IndyCar separate credential to go into the IndyCar

garage. Like my NASCAR hard card could not get me into the IndyCar garage. And also when they

were qualifying and practicing, I could not go on pit road. Um, so like the IndyCar drivers are

doing their, you know, post qualifying stuff and the security guards like, no, sorry, you have to have

an IndyCar. And I'm like, Oh, you know, the credential office here is all the way up. Um,

Avandale Boulevard almost back to the highway. So at that point, I was like, oh, well, I'm not going

to get my car and drive all the way back into race traffic and go get it. So, um, I didn't really

get to get the full experience. But the same, it was the same thing for, you know, drivers or whoever,

right? Like you were very restricted to your garages. Um, I did go up on the hill to watch the

start of the race. And um, I ran some, some drivers up there, like, and I saw some come up from

the motorhome lot and at least watch the start. But, um, you know, the, the cup drivers and the

IndyCar drivers, like they're both so focused on what they have to do. You know, it's not like the cup

guys are like, Oh, let me get done with practice and let me go walk around the IndyCar garage and

their paddock and take pictures and stuff. I mean, you definitely had the, the Penske,

you know, intermingling specifically, right? Like they were both doing stuff for their teams and

sitting on the pit boxes and all that stuff. But, um, you know, the rest of the drivers, I think

there were, there was sort of some curiosity of like, Oh, I'd like to see them if I get a chance. But

hey, I got a debrief. There was drivers, cup drivers had appearances during the IndyCar race. Um,

I mean, it was, it was kind of odd in that sense. And, and, you know, I heard from some,

from some fans too of like people that had, you know, garage passes for one or the other. And

they're like, you know, you can't go in. And it would just be nice if somehow, I get there's

probably liability things are different. The series have different licenses. But it would be

cool if the track was able to be like, All right, let's just do one waiver or one liability thing

for this weekend. And then you can go in both. And, um, because it's just sort of, if it's

supposed to be, Hey, let's, the whole point of this is to have that intermingling like you're saying.

And then, you know, a lot of personnel from, from one garage or the other can't really cross over.

It's, it's just a weird, you know what I'm saying? I get it. And there's a lot of fine-tuning.

And this was the issue too at Indianapolis when we did the double header at Indianapolis. And

there was a lot of things there and you had sponsored appearances and drivers doing this. But there

was that. And it needs to be smoother. And you would, like you said, let's make it across the

board, umbrella, you know, ticket, you know, pass and just make it easy for everybody. But you,

but when I say moments that, when I see moments like Joseph Newgar sitting in the driver's wing,

you know, when appearing on television, wearing a right-wing shirt. And I understand it's a

Penske thing to some degree. And Scott McLaughlin was there, but you had Scott Dixon, you know,

doing a photo op with MJ, you know, things like that. It's like, it's cool. This is a really good

foundation. Let's build off of this. And to your point, let's smooth out some of these,

these little drawbacks that we can make, I mean, maybe things make even better. But I do think we

need to do that and continue this because it is a good thing. And then the other thing part of

this too is it's the Fox element. I mean, it's so helpful. And you know, when this was at Indian

apolis, who was on NBC, and they did a really great job of the cross promotion and everything. And

Fox's weekend did the same thing. You enjoy the Gano and the Indy Car booth. You got the Indy Car

guys, tons of bell. And James Hinchcliff make it appearance and the coverage today and their booth,

like you had that. And I like to see that. And I just think it's a good thing. And the promotion,

you get a network like Fox behind this pushing it. It's a good thing. And I'd be curious to see

what the hotel is raining like that. I expect Indy Car, even though we ran on a Saturday, I would

expect that they're kind of good ratings. Yeah. No, I think so. You definitely get the NASCAR

fans attention, which I think is important. It might not be good for everybody because you know,

poor Bob who covers both series. So relentless. He told me he walked nine miles yesterday is

tracker because he was just all over the day. It's only a one mile track. He's walking

all over the place here. But I asked him about that. So going into the weekend, I said,

how is that for you? He's like, he actually said he goes, actually, it's going to make it easier

for because if Bob is at a track, he's always trying to keep track of what's going on for the

other series. They're track. And then he has to go back to his hotel room and then digest

everything that was going on. So he's like, at least everything is at one spot. It makes it a

little bit easier. So, you know, maybe this is we should maybe let Bobby to issue the verdict on this.

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Speaking of the the penski crossover, I mean, obviously if there's any team that,

you know, would really want to sweep the weekend, that was the one that did it. And they did

by sweeping both poles and both of the races. And you know, it's not just like, hey, you know,

we're one team and we happen to run in both. I mean, Roger Penske obviously owns

Indycar and Fox obviously has a part of it as well. But, you know, they wanted this weekend. They

wanted to, this was their, this was their baby. And so for them to come out and with so much

pressure and so much emphasis for their sponsors and all that stuff, that was a big deal. And

obviously Ryan Blaney really wanted to deliver that. Not a surprise that he did, of course,

you know, given his Phoenix dominance. But, you know, at the same time, like he's been so good at

Phoenix and we've talked about it for so many years. But he hadn't won no Phoenix races, you know, like

right. And, you know, you, you look at, so eight top five finishes in the nine next gen races

here for Ryan Blaney. So again, he's always up there. But this is only his second win, second in

a row. But, um, second win. And remember, the year when the championship, Ross Chasain won that

race, right? So first, not in the champion, or the champion did not win the race.

Mm-hmm. Yep. So this was, you know, I think you're, you're seeing, um, a continued evolution of

Ryan Blaney. You know, you look at the way that we, we look at the analytics, all the, the accounts

and stuff, you know, auto racing analytics and mass current size. We look at stuff like that.

And like he's, if not the best pastor in the series, one of the best pastors in the series.

Well, this is a place where, you know, you need to find those, those lanes and those grooves and

try to figure out how to make your car work to do that. We also saw evolution in that like, hey,

this is a guy who we know gets frustrated inside the car, right? We all hear it. Um, he doesn't think

that he is more vocal on the radio than other drivers. He says they all do it. But, you know,

if you listen to Ryan Blaney, he is probably the most vocal one. Sorry, Ryan. Um, so, but, you

know, today, so he gets that loose wheel, right? And what's he saying? He's saying, you know,

what guys don't worry about it? We, you know, long race. We've got this. No problem, right?

Happens again. Got a long way to go. Don't worry about it. We'll get it back.

There you go. No problem. Happens again. And, you know, it's like, well, I mean, you could

probably a little bit of irritation there, but he still doesn't, you know, lose his crap. He stays

calm in the car. Um, he said he joked in the press comments. You know, I didn't give you guys

any radio chatter because I didn't say anything, right? Like, but he had the presence to say

long way to go. I've got a fast car. I'm going to do this. I know how to do this. Um, and so,

remember, this is a guy in his first few years, what are he was winning like one race a year?

And you're like, man, this guy just can't close it out, right? So, um, you know, now he's,

I think he's just such a more well-rounded mature driver. And you really see why he's one of the

best in the series. Yeah. I mean, you're pointing about him, maturing his driver's spot line.

I push this so hard because it's so true. It's like, this is a driver who would win one

race a year. He'd lead a bunch of laps in other races. You know, like dominant car, something

would happen. They lose control of race or he'd make a mistake or just whatever. They just,

we're not getting the wins that they should have had with the number of laps they were leading in

races. And you're like, what is going on? When are you going to get that breakthrough? It was just

one race a year, something, you know, and you're like, when is this going to happen? When is this

going to happen? And this is a different driver now. This is a driver who now closes out. It gets

better at the end of races, who is great over long green flag rocks. And as this NASCAR evolves

a little bit and we're seeing NASCAR be more selective about when they throw cautions and they do

it. They think they did a really good job of managing that again today. That plays into a driver's

strengths who's good over long green flag rocks. And when you've got a team that, you know, put,

you know, put you in the back there and because of issues on payroll, being good, a long green flag

rocks pace your dividends because you're going to be able to get your way forward. And this is

somebody who's able to keep his emotions. Yes, he rants on the radio sometimes. It's wildly

entertaining. But honestly, at the end of the day, it's not like there's an angry tone. It's

just more of just kind of letting it out and it's over with. This isn't like some other drivers

where they rant and rave and it carries over. And you know those conversations with their team

members is in the relationships that are not strong. That's not like that with Blaney and the

12 team. But again, to your point, handle it really well today. Just kept the emotions in check

and they have a really good perspective. And this really kind of, I think goes to a driver

winning a championship and having that on their resume saying, Hey, I prove everybody I could do

this. I had to win a race that year in a must-win situation and I came through. I rose up a week after

I, you know, people got on me because I, you know, I choked away a victory at Martin'sville. He comes

back the next week and, you know, gets a win. And those kind of, I choked away a win at Homestead.

And then comes back the next weekend wins at Martin'sville and you put yourself in the championship

for like this is one of NASCAR's best drivers. And we always, and I feel like I say this all

the time about, you know, I said the same thing about Reddit last week, but it's like we talk so

much about other drivers. And I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that Blaney is in that mix.

He's not the talent. Maybe that Larson is or Bell is, but he has the ability. If you put him in a

good situation, he's going to maximize it. And that's what I feel like they do every single week is

if he's got an eighth place car, he does a really good job of finishing around eighth place.

Well, he moves up to second end points now. He cuts 10 points off Tyler Reddick's lead, which was

70 going to this now, 60. And, you know, Reddick himself finishes eighth. He was in contention,

you know, to run top five and continue his streak. Try to win his fourth straight. But I think what's

important for him is like they came out after three sort of different ish races. And we still saw

that they were strong. We still saw that they had a good car. It wasn't just like, uh, okay,

you know, if he'd come out and run 15th or something today and they they had been way off. And,

you know, he and Bubba had not been in the top 10 or anything, you know, you could have easily gone,

well, I don't know, maybe it was just two super spares, two super speedways in a road course.

Maybe they're a little vulnerable. I mean, they were still on the gas. They were still running,

you know, again, like top five, a lot of the day it felt like. So, um, I think that was a pretty

good sign for Reddick. I wrote something this week on the athletic about 23 love and building

something and building this team. And people are like, well, he's won three races, two of them are

super speedways and another one that are on course. Like, no, like you're, you've got to read my,

read the article. It's about stepping back and looking at it. And I go back to the fact that

this is a driver in team that won the 2024 Rayler season points championship. You don't do that

without being good every single week and having the level of consistency that they do. And

they are good. And today reaffirm that. And to me, this is, I want to, I want to speak on this,

Jeff, is we talk about this being the start of the regular regular season, right? You know,

this is this new beginning and that kind of thing. And you know, we're going to learn a lot.

But I don't know if we really learned that much, to be honest with you. And I'll just say this

because Penske is fast at Phoenix. We knew that going in. Well, guess what? They were fast

again today. Lagono was fast, Austin Sudraker's fast, Blaney was fast, Blaney won the race.

Joe gives racing head speed today and all their cars. Guess what? They usually do every year.

That's not a surprise. We didn't learn that. Hendrick had an up and down Phoenix. That's

typically what happens at Phoenix. Larsen was good. Brian was okay. Chase Elliott had bad luck.

Anthony Milfredo was in a tough spot as a substitute and got caught up on a wreck. And 2311

had it solid top 10 day. Like, you know, we try to take pull takeaways from this. It's like,

this is what it means. The regular season starts now. We got to be careful about

what we learned at Daytona and Atlanta and Coda because really the regular season starts now. But

I don't feel like we're really in that much different of a spot than we were a week ago

in terms of knowing where everybody stacks up because it seems like it's kind of status quo.

I mean, to an extent, yes. I mean, you knew that the good teams were going to be good here.

But I do think there's some element of concern if you're in the Chevrolet camp in general. Yes,

Larsen did come back to finish third. But Chevy was not really a part of the picture for a lot

of the time, especially before, like, when the, you know, before LaGona Rack, and before

Cyndric Rack, and before Prisco Rack, we're really seeing a lot of Chevy. I mean, how many laps

did Chevy lead today? Let's see. One lap led by a Chevrolet today. So, you know, I do look at

this a little bit as like, you know, they, they have a new body. They were really excited about

this. There's some degree of arrow here. Yes, we'll really see what they have at Vegas, right?

And yes, this is a track where Hendrik hasn't been as good as they've wanted to be. But

if you're in the Chevy camp, do you leave? You're going, oh, this is everything's great. I think you

you're probably like, oh, that was a little, little disappointing for us. No.

I, I think you say we still have work to do with Phoenix. Like, this has been an up and down track

for us. There's been times where good, but Joe Gibbs Racing has consistently been very good here,

especially in the spring. And King Pansky brings it on these short flat one mile race tracks.

And so, how events unfolded today? Wasn't like a shocking development. It was like, again,

like, this is how it was a year ago to some extent, a year before that. But we still were decent.

Larsen was in the ballpark. Byron had, I think Byron would have been okay if he could caught up

in a couple things. Elliott had a rough day, but not much of his own doing. I don't know if you

can really extrapolate anything from this and say, man, we got, you know, this is concerning.

Now, I think Las Vegas is going to be a good indicator. But I think it's more of a collective

thing over these next few weeks. It's, it's Phoenix, it's Las Vegas, it's Darlington,

it's Martin'sville, it's Bristol, it's going to Kansas. This next six, seven, eight week stretch

of races here that we have collectively is really going to give it good indicator. And it's just

going to be really hard just to say, well, here, I didn't learn, I didn't see anything today that

I haven't seen before. I didn't bite like that. I haven't seen the past. It just seems kind

of status quo in a lot of respects. Yeah, I'm just saying though, like if, I mean, you want to be

better, you're better. You're better. We want to lead laps. You want to be dominant. You don't want

to be that true. And especially with this being a playoff track, like you want to be better. Sorry.

Well, I, I was just going to say as well. I mean, I just think if they get to Vegas next week and

you know, if you're Hendrick, you go to Vegas next week and you say we've got this new body,

you know, we're always strong at places like this. This is the intermediate. We're going to see

what we're about to see what we have. And you better have a great weekend, you know, and if you don't,

then you're really, then you can easily put that with this and you go crap, like we don't want to be

behind the Penske cars and the Gibbs cars. Like that's definitely not where we want to be here.

We want to be coming out and being like, oh, look, look what this great new car we have and

we've got speed and, you know, here we go. So I just, I feel like they were more of like the,

you know, fifth to tenth place type speed today. I would like to talk about Anthony Alfredo

real quick. If you don't mind, I know we're jumping around a little bit, but, you know, I just

thought, look, I think he was he was lapsed in stage one and finished 34th and stable stage one

or something, right? They took a two tire call. They got track position and they worked their way up.

And when Anthony Alfredo got wrecked, Jordan, he was running seventh. And they had a set of,

they were on the same tire strategy then. They were, they had a set of fresh tires lying in the pits.

And to me, it's like, man, that could have been a special day because, you know, you, you get

Anthony Alfredo in that car and you're just like, man, just run all the laps, just have a

solid day, finish top 20 top 25, stay out of trouble, whatever, right? Well, he was in a position

where he was going to have a shot at a top 10 and top 15 at worst, maybe if they, if he just

stays out of trouble, he had worked his way up. Imagine what a top 10 jumping in the 48 car would

have done for a career for a guy like that. And it had nothing to do with anything that he was

doing. I mean, that was when he got taken out with Logano turning Chastain, he was just on the

high side on a restart and just got cleaned out. What a shame for him to lose that opportunity

where he could, I mean, that, man, that's, that's tough, you know?

Yeah, I mean, it's a potential career-making day. We've seen it with other drivers when I get

these opportunities and things come together and they have a great day. Think about Carson Osevar,

Gateway a few years ago, where he hops in that seven car at Spire and has a great weekend,

qualifies well, race as well, now, they didn't get the finish because that mechanical issue or

brake failure, I believe, and crashing out, but that regardless, like he's still impressed

and ever from that, it was like, oh, man, Carson Osevar is on the radar and guess what?

He was in the cup series the following year. You know, and you know, maybe this is an opportunity

for Anthony Elfrey. He hasn't been with a big team in a few years. He drove a full season for

Fragrant Motorsports way back, but he was a young driver then. He didn't really have experience,

and it was kind of like rushed his way up a little bit. You know, you talk to people in the garage,

it's like, he has talent, he works really hard, and he got this opportunity at Andrew,

because he works really hard. You know, you talk to the crew chiefs, and they love him. They

think the world of him and how he really helps that organization become better and everything.

So you would have liked to see that better, but I think the Albert that he was able to

turn the day around is still going to, you know, resonate with people, and the people who matter

are going to recognize, like you did, Jeff, of saying, hey, I didn't get to finish, but man,

like he was doing what he needed to do, and he put himself in position. Hopefully,

people look beyond just the box court. Yeah, you know, they had last fall, you were there.

The Xfinity had this like farewell to the Xfinity Series party thing and Phoenix, and

downtown Phoenix, and they had a bunch of it was during championship weekend, and

you know, all the Xfinity drivers were there, and invited a bunch of people there, and I

talked to Alfredo this thing for, I don't know, like 45 minutes, and he had such a compelling story,

right, of like how he's he's working in the simulator for Hendrick, like five days a week for

a full day, you know, hours and hours a day, and he's responsible for like fine-tuning each driver's

setup. So it's like, okay, this is chase Elliott setup, and can you try to go drive like chase

drives and try to emulate his style, okay, now this is Larsen, and you know, he's responsible for

doing all that, and it just happened, so happened to be Phoenix, you know, where Hendrick was trying to

get so much better, they were leaving No Stone on turn, and they were trying so, so hard

to find something at Phoenix, ultimately, they ended up winning the championship of Larsen last

year, but you know, you're talking Alfredo, and it's like, man, I just don't know if I'm ever going to

get this chance, and then fast forward, here we come next time at Phoenix, he's got this chance,

obviously, it's not something you can really celebrate because everybody's concerned about Alex

Bowman, you know, he has Vertigo, if you didn't hear Vertigo's terrible, you know, when we post

of the news of this, you see the replies always people saying, oh, I've had this, I sympathize with

this, this is such a horrible thing to come down with, and you don't know the timeline for that,

so obviously our thoughts are with Alex, but it's just like a backup quarterback,

somebody's got to come in, next man up, somebody's got to make that opportunity,

and you know, for guy like Anthony Alfredo who's put in the work, it was cool to see him get in

position, and it's just he didn't get the opportunity to finish it off. It is unfortunate, you hope,

and I go back to Daytona this year, and how we handle the disappointment of just making the Daytona

500 and realizing, oh, our car failed tack, because we've got one full time employee on the team,

and we missed a couple bolts or whatever, I think everybody agrees, or it was no ill intent,

it was just an oversight, or you know, whatever, and he misses it, but you know, talk to the media

afterwards and share this frustration, disappointment, but he was like, he understood it, he didn't point

fingers, and it was handled the right way, and I remember in the garage, all this was unfolding

on Thursday night, and it was late, and the 62 is going through tack, and at that point, I knew that

the 62 had failed tack, and a cruci for 100 motorsports is walking by me, and he's like, what's going

on? I'm like, well, 62-card, unfortunately, failed tack, and you know, he's out, and they're like,

damn, I really like him, he works really hard, he's a good kid, and he's a really asset to our

organization, and he's like, I just hate to see that, and you know, but you know, one door closes

and other opens, and it's unfortunate for Bowman, and we feel terrible for that, and you know,

and everything, but it's nice to see Anthony get this shot, and there's no reason to think that

we don't know how long Alex is out, and you know, but if he is out, another race or two, like,

there's no reason to think that Anthony shouldn't stay in that car, because he deserved it.

Well, obviously, I'm hoping that Alex does get the chance to come back, because, you know, the way

the points are this season, you know, there's no, you can't win your way back in, and so now,

with Alex not racing today, he was already in a terrible points position, right? I think he was

already last before this. Now, so Alex is 77 points out of a chase spot, and you know, I do think

though that like it's not over, and that there's a chance for him to be able to come back, you know,

I, again, you don't know his health situation, but if he's able to get back and race, like, he can

overcome a 77 point deficit. It's a lot after four races. It's definitely a lot, but in 22 races,

he can absolutely make that up. And so I would love to follow that story. I think that would be

quite an achievement, just to see him make it. Obviously, he's in a contract here and trying to,

you know, make sure he's, he's still got a place. So, you know, I mean, is 77 points too much

overcome, do you think? It's a lot. And I keep saying this, but it's, it's a lot of points that

yes, you can overcome, but you have to win races, you have to win multiple races. That's going to be

the thing because I don't think so. I do. I think I think you're going to have that kind of deficit.

You need to get every point you can. It's stage points, it's winning races in those, in those

points, because look at the guy here, you're fighting a chase brisco who's back there, you know,

it's not just, you know, moving up, but look at the guys who he's, he's got a fight with for

spots who are off the slow starts. And you're going to have to do a lot to, to overcome that. And

again, you've thrown away your Mulligan's Lars, like maybe you can have one or one, maybe two more

bad races, but you were largely going to have to be lights out like the rest of the way. And that's,

that's a tall task for any team because you still have a Daytona, you still have a Telodega

and Atlanta. And you don't have those kind of races where circumstances are sometimes out of

your control. So that to me is the big thing is, can you go out and lead laps and get stage points

and win races? If you can do that, great. That's going to help a ton. I think chase brisco,

conversely, he's in a good, I'm not panicking with chase brisco. He's in a hole, but we know chase

can go out and lead and get stage points because he's done it. He can win races. He can run the

front consistently. I'm not worried about that. We haven't seen that from the 48 team consistently

enough. That's the concern. They run very hot or cold. We've seen it times. They are, they hit it

and they're on for a few weeks and you're like, this, okay, here we go. And then conversely,

we've seen go the other direction. So what's version of the 48 team are we getting? That's what we

don't know. And that's, unfortunately, why I think it's a little bit of a concern whether you can

make the playoffs chase. Yeah. I mean chase brisco DNF today and loses six bots in the points.

So another disappointment because two weeks in a row, he's got to find the DVP area at the track.

He's studying the map. Study the map. Right. By the way, how about that, though, man?

Third time this year. So four races, three times he's finished 36th their work. So like,

you're frustrated. You're angry. Not your fault. Didn't do anything wrong. Tiger failure,

pushing the wall. You have every rate reason to be angry, frustrated, swearing, whatever, right?

And he comes on the radio and droughts like an all-time quip. Don't worry, guys. I read the map

this week. It just shows his is good natured approach. Not that he's not disappointed, obviously.

Because for him, I mean, you heard the radio chatter. He's like, hey, I got a vibration.

Got a vibration. They're like, well, remember, you got a vibration here last year too. Yeah,

I know. This feels different. Well, you know, your teammate had a vibration in practice. So I know,

but boom, it's the wall race over. Now he's, so he's 53 points out of a chase spot. But

again, for him, though, like, that's not, you're, he's not trying to just make the chase. He's

trying to get a top three birth, which we, people are apparently already tired of me saying this

for some reason. But I think it's worth noting that when NASCAR ran the numbers, I checked

this week to confirm this. When NASCAR ran the modeling, they found that 69% of the time

the champion came from a top three seed. So it's really a battle for the top three seed in a way.

And certainly a battle for the top six seed, because I believe, I don't have the exact

percentage, but it's top six seeder below or if you're below that, you're pretty much not going

to win. I mean, it would take, you know, an all time run. Yeah, you have to have a Tony Stewart,

as it was explaining to me, and I wrote about this, is you have to have a Tony Stewart type

playoff to overcome that. So yeah, you want to be top six, top three, ideally, but just first

goal for the first goal, though, is to get the playoffs, at least give yourself a chance to do

something. And I feel like they're going to be in a decent spot. United Health Group is

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Since we're on this topic, in terms of the other big names that are not in right now,

that we thought we, you know, people would be up there. You know, obviously, I do have Austin

Syngerick in the playoffs. You know, he gets viciously crashed today. That was a brutal moment.

There's a lot of heart hits today, though. Brisco, but I'm telling you, that's Syngerick

when I saw that live, because I saw Chastain's car, I was up in the press box, and I saw it get

turned, and you're like, whoa, crap. When they're all in that big, huge clump, and you see one

out of shape, you're like, oh, this is going to be bad. And then you just see Syngerick just

get clobbered, and you're like, oh, damn. I mean, even from afar, and then you see the

in-car, and you're like, geez. I mean, I'm glad he was all right. That looked nasty.

But, you know, he's 48 points out. That's not where he want to be even as a Penske car.

And then the other one that kind of jumps out, like, as really not up there where we thought

would be Ross Chastain. He lost three spots today. You know, he obviously had a wheel come off

last week. And then he gets taken out. And so he's minus 26. Not, you know, you could certainly

overcome that. But again, like, he was a guy that I thought could be one of those top six seats

potentially, or on the fringe of that. So that's, you know, so I guess for me, I'm looking at

Chastain, Syngerick, Briscoe, and Bowman. Those are four drivers that I had

making the playoffs who are not in right now. Yeah, I mean, I would echo that. And just that,

you know, the least in the case of Syngerick and Chastain, it's like they've been running well.

And they just haven't had the corresponding finishes. And if you're trying to hang your hat on

that, it's like, okay, let's just, you know, get a little bit of luck here. It goes back to it,

man, when you start with two super speedways and a road course, you're going to have this. And

what you have to go to a track like Phoenix, and you've got to have a clean weekend. You've

got to have a good weekend and maximize your points. And then it does a materialize. If I'm

lost Chastain, I'm frustrated because you go to Coda, had a really good race running in the top 10,

wheel comes off, your day shot, bad finish. Go to Phoenix, you're having a good day,

get doing anything wrong, you're your, your intention for top 10 finish, at least better than what

you had. And you get turned, no fault of your own. And you end up, you know, get crashed. And so

it's just frustrating. But like this, this puts the owners on it. Now it's like, you've got to go

to these next few races. And you've got to get points. You've got to figure out a way to get

stage points. You got to get, you got to figure out a way to get decent finishes because you have

to reverse this trend because you're only allowed so many of these to get through. And a lot of these

guys are continually using them up. Well, we talked about some of the people that were affected by

the, the, the Lugano crash. And then he ends up obviously getting crashed shortly thereafter.

And in almost a similar way, when he collided with Almond Dinger. Man, I tell you what, obviously,

you know, Lugano's a veteran. That's not something he's, I don't think there's any chance he's

doing on purpose or, or, yeah, I'd listen that moment to me. But imagine if that had been

host of our, I thought the same thing. I thought the same exact thing. You know, with all the

open arms, people would have been like, oh my god, like, they would have been the entire first 30

minutes of this podcast. So we could have been host of our, yeah, like, I mean, they'd be,

we'd be dominating the number one news story. Hurricane host of ours out of control. This and

it'd be like the Chastain conversations from years ago. Same thing. Like, but it's just, yeah,

you'd have the week, a week's worth of phone lines on series. One topic, host of our, they need to

ban him. They need to sit him down or go, man, it's a spin and you can't be racing like this.

He's got no respect for the veterans. He thinks he's day learner. He doesn't want a damn thing.

Oh, yeah. Oh my god. Can you imagine? I just like literally, dude. I mean, yeah, I mean,

so anyway, it's just, I just want to keep the people that are mad at him. I want you to keep

that energy or not. Like, it just shows some consistency here. You know, because that was a,

that was not a good moment for Lugano, but I give, I, I don't think that it was malicious.

And I don't think it wasn't intentional. Anyway, he was just trying to get a spot on a restart.

Stuff happens. Okay. Now, it's, it's not a pattern with Joey Lugano either, in my opinion.

So you don't expect that kind of thing out of him. He, you know, so you could say, well,

Carson does that a lot, but still, I mean, I don't know, like that's, there's a lot of,

there's a lot of people who might normally say stuff that aren't saying stuff. There's a little,

there's a bit of a double standard when it comes to the same thing happened with Chess St.

The same thing happened with Brad, because a lot of us do back in the day. Same thing happened

with Lugano is like, you had the Kevin Harvicks, the world upset with Joey Lugano. And it's like,

I'm recall many instances when Kevin Harvick as a young driver has similar, you know,

what the she was on the other foot. And it's just part of it. And it's like, you've got guys who

are like, you're blaming this guy for racing aggressively when you've got a rap sheet that's

pretty long yourself. It's always, it's always, don't do as I, don't do as I do, do as I say.

Yeah. Well, I, I do want to talk about, we talked about the guys that are, that are out of the

chase. Let's talk about some of the pleasant surprises who are in it right now. And I think

the top of that list has to be Shane Van Gizbergen. After four races, SVG is fifth in points still.

I mean, gosh, that's amazing. And today, twice he wrecks right in front of me, spins out,

oh, I see a bunch of smoke. I'm like, who's that? I'm looking down from the press box. Who's that?

Oh, oh, geez, SVG shoot. Okay. Well, that's not good for him. Is it? I guess people are going to

be chirping in my mentions about how blah, blah, blah. Oh, you always excuse SVG and you can't drive

on ovals. And he comes back to finish 11th somehow. I have no idea how that happened. I literally

have no idea how that happened. One of those last restarts, I'm looking up and it's like, what?

I guess you must have taken two tires or something. He was running them in the top 10. Like, he was

running in the top 10 towards the end. And he actually backslid to a left. So like, he gets

out of it. How did he get up there? I'm saying did he take a two tire call to get up there?

Sure. It's more than dead. Yeah. But like, I mean, I was just like, it, oh,

realized that's like, so you talked to other drivers and they are in all of his ability because

they know how good he is. And they see like, yes, it's road courses versus ovals. But

if you put some of the time in the work and they see this, it's transferable to some degree. And

like, he's doing it, man. Like, he is getting better and better.

Well, he's only plus 18 points to cut offline. So it can change quickly. You've got Las Vegas and

Darlington coming up. So we're going to have to see more. But I mean, the fact that he,

I mean, finishing 11th after a day like that, it's definitely impressive. Now another one

that I think is worth mentioning still is, you know, AJ Almondinger, he did lose five spots

today. But the fact that like this, I had, I had him on the, the Gluck cast this week. And he

was saying, hey, look, it's a great start. But this is like our worst track. And colleague again,

we've talked about, we talked about it on the on the Daytona 500 media day show. And, and our

preseason preview, they have no alliance, right? Like Chevy's like, you are cut off. How dare you

take your truck team to Ram? We're not going to help you anymore. So they're going it alone,

right? Like they're doing this on the fly. And ultimately he finished 19th today. He was actually

up a little bit higher than that. But to get a top 20 like that, just to get a respectable finish

and stay in the chase after the first four races for AJ Almondinger, that's big. I don't think,

I would have, if you had said, where world, where will the college cars finish this year? I would

say both will be outside the top 30. I just don't see how they can possibly be anywhere close to

the chase cut off. And again, after four weeks, Ty Dylan got into an incident today, or he's

minus 24 now. But I'm awfully impressed with what they've been able to do so far.

I had a conversation with a team owner this week. And we both came to the conclusion, like AJ

Almondinger is one of the most underrated drivers in the garage. Like people have this perception

about AJ Almondinger, like, you know, back in the day, he struggled coming over here initially

and it took a while. And you know, he does really well in road courses, whatever. People don't

realize how well rounded of a race car driver is. He is the model for what SVG can become.

AJ runs well on a lot of different style tracks, great of the Atlanta, great at Martinsville,

great at Bristol. He reinvented his career. He is a driver who if you put him in this team owner

agree with me. If he ended up with a bigger team, you know, one of the big free or big four or

five teams, you know, he would go there and he would blow people's doors on. And he would be

winning races every single year. And he'd be one of those guys you're paying attention to every

single week. He is that great of a race car driver. And we have seen what he can do at Calle.

Calle doesn't have the resources that other teams do, but we see him punch above his weight class.

Look at the runs he's had to win at Indy or the Rolval and those kind of places. He has done it.

He does it every single week. It's just when you're in that kind of car, it's really hard to do this

every, you know, consistently run high. He does it and he figures it out. If he was with a better team,

we would be talking to him as a lock for the playoffs every single year.

We had three drivers jump into the chase today. And all three were from Joe Gibbs Racing.

Christopher Bell gained 17 spots in the standings. Actually, 18 jumped all the way to sixth.

Is that a tie for six with Joey Logano. He was 24th before this race. And listen, I mean,

it looked for a long time today that Christopher Bell was going to win his third straight Phoenix

spring race. He led by far the most laps 176. This was the third time in four Phoenix races that

he's led at least 100 laps here. This was the third straight time that he's led 50 laps that were

more in the Phoenix spring race. It just didn't work out with the strategy. You know, you have to make

a call one way or the other. They took four tires. Didn't have enough time. They had a heck of a car.

And you would have to feel, I mean, I have to, I guess you can't say you have to feel good.

He actually sat in his car for a little bit today before he got out. Just I think he was,

you know, that was, that was a tough one to lose because they were fast. But,

you don't like to see those slip away, obviously. But they, I mean, they had speed. They had great

speed today. And you look at the tough start they had of their season. You know, a few weeks ago,

we're talking about man, Christopher Bell is bearing the point. Now he's sitting six in the

standings. Honestly, I think, you know, this is a good spot for this team after true super speedway

races. And, you know, the chaos and everything that happens there. You're sitting six coming out of

Phoenix, heading into a one of racetracks, by the way, was Vegas, Darlington, Martin'sville,

like places where he should is be considered among the favorites and has a good chance to get

more stage points. Maybe, you know, get a win or two, like they're in a really, really good spot

right now after stuff tough start to the year rebounded nicely and are really poised to be in that

conversation of, can you win the regular season championship? And if you can't, can you be in the

top three? Can you be in the top six and put yourself in a position coming the chase? You're going

to make a run for this championship. And it's really, really impressive turnaround for this team.

Yeah, I just did a 12 questions interview with them pre-coda. And he was like, yeah, I just don't

even know if it's realistic anymore to be talking about one of those those top seeds. And so they've

they've really made a big gain. And obviously, Denny Hamlin did as well. You know, he finished

fifth today. And he jumped 11 spots to 12 from the standing. So he's back in. Ty Gibbs obviously

had a great day as well. Back to back, fourth place finishes for Ty Gibbs. The the NASCAR memes

Ty Gibbs hate watch has got to be put on hold for another week. And, you know, I just you you're

seeing him move up. You know, they're it looked to start the year with all the gay parts stuff going

on and, you know, not good finishes. You're like, man, this could be another tough one for for

Ty Gibbs, you know, and you know, we we're here in the in this lawsuit. He doesn't show up for

the meetings. And now today he sort of he gets on TV. And what's he's like, I've got a great

group of guys around me. I've got people to believe in me. And yeah, people believe in me. And they

you know, they encourage me and it's like green between the lines like, okay, yeah. But if Ty Gibbs,

you know, the last two weeks, he said great bronze. He's in the top 10 back to back top five finishes.

He doesn't get those. We're having a different conversation. He's buried in points for like,

man, gay parts right. You know, okay, he doesn't work hard. This, that, you know, all my other drivers

gone through JGR didn't have performance and they were gone. And yet, here's Ty Gibbs still

sitting here has on a race. What's going on? This is the playoff last year. All these things. And

it's just going to continue to snowball and get worse. And you know, it is like to stay in media.

We are Jeff. We just we don't need these guys alone. And the things are going bad. And they can

go sideways in a hurry. And they figured out. And for the last two weeks, they've had great

runs. He jumped into a chase spot now. And it's at least it doesn't give any more ammunition to your

critics to take shots at you. And you just you tuned it out. You focused on what you need to do. And

that's what you need to do is you just have to go out, keep running while every week and build on

this and get consistently good finishes. And it certainly does feel like that first win is

there in the mix. I mean, it almost happened today was strong last week. It's going to Vegas.

That's a good track for them. So I don't know if any one of us would be surprised that that wind

is it too far down the road? Well, it wasn't a very positive A for the three other drivers who

fell out. We mentioned the three JGR drivers who jumped in. That means that three had to step

out of the chase. And those were Daniel Suarez, who lost 10 spots, Ryan Priest, who lost two spots,

and Zane Smith who lost five spots. Now, I think the Suarez one is the biggest most glaring one

here because this was a really big missed opportunity for Suarez. You know, for me, I was like,

didn't they qualify fourth or something like that? Like they had a really good qualifying run.

He was the lead Chevy for a while in stage one today. They started out really well.

And then he gets in this wreck. And you know, they're like, what what happened was, you know,

did somebody hit me? And it's like, no, he just he just got loose. And man, that's that was a to DNF.

That is a lot of points on the table. I mean, they finished 30th. And Spire seemed to have speed.

I mean, McDowell finished nine today. Host of our, by the way, host of our was up there. And I went

and asked what what happened to those guys afterwards. And Luke Lambert was saying that, you know,

they just I think they were they were on scuff tires. And then they lost a little bit of track

position on restart. And they got back in with the guys who were who it actually had had another set

because they had runs. Those guys were like running so bad. And then they they got caught in the

muck and kind of finished 20th there. So they that was a missed opportunity for host of our two. But

Spire looked to have speed. And you know, for Suarez to to lose 10 spots in the standings after that,

I'm sure it's going to be upsetting. Yeah. I mean, it's a mixed bag. I mean, Michael McDowell came

back from a flat tire there and got a decent finish. But Spire's had speed in the race cars. And

it's just it's kind of been a little bit. It's not been the 100% the execution that they wanted.

I mean, host of our qualified well, but they had dropped to the back because of, you know,

in a mechanical issue, and it's just like putting together clean races, you know, is been an

issue. Even Michael, like I said, Mike McDowell, even though we had a top 10 today, it wasn't easy,

man, you know, had to overcome that. And we'll see. I think the bread and butter tracks for the

77, I think are still going to be those minor mile and a half year immediate size tracks.

I think that's where we saw it last year at Michigan. We saw it last year at Charlotte. And

those are the tracks where I think holds for us talent. And that team's ability is really going to come

out. But on these kind of races, like you just got to be able to get something onto this. And

when you have other teams surging like the 54 and like the 20, you're losing, you know, finishing

20, it's not it's not going to cut it because you're losing ground up. United Health Group is

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For the ones who get it done.

Let's see. Who else in terms of like the people we haven't talked about?

Oh, I know we want to we need to talk about. And somebody that really, really needed a good run,

Eric Jones gets top 10. Oh my goodness. Yes. And that was very much needed for that team. So

man, they were just having horrible time. Just horrible awful stuff.

It starts with you. Awful stuff these years. And it's just like not qualifying well, not

racing well. And, you know, Eric, I think was sick last week. And it's just been not

the start of the year because the legacy was one of those teams that they they've been making

improvements. And you feel like, okay, they're going to continue this up, you know, increase.

And it just hasn't happened. And then this was a really, really much needed a good day for

our Jones night, that 43 team. Yeah. And I know this isn't a top 10, but I thought Todd Gilland

had a really solid day to day also and was able to finish 12. I think I think he passed the

most cars and like the loop data that I was looking at in terms of like green flag passes.

Todd Gilland passed 154 cars today because I was looking at it because I was wondering how many

Ryan Blaney passed in terms of the loop data for green flag passes. They said Ryan Blaney was

at 102. So Todd Gilland 154, Brad keselowski 149, Eric Jones 132. So those were, those

were some really good runs from those Ty Dillon 148, by the way, green flag passes today.

So I want to highlight two Kyle Busch finish 17th today. And if you wash Kyle's race today on

fold, you would have thought he would finish 37th. I mean, it was not good. It was like they

were having tire issues. It seemed like about every 20, 25 laps. They were having some serious tire

issues. They got trapped a lap down at one point, various problems and they finished 17th. I mean,

you're looking at like all this should be better than that. But on this day, when you're out to

launch and you can sell was a 17th place finish, I mean, that's, that's important because if you

have a bad day, the way this unfolded, this could have gotten ugly in a hurry. And you know this is

and it just going into the hometown race next week in Las Vegas, all to a slow start. We know

everything we've talked about. Well, how important it is for this team and driver to get off to a

good start. This would just been another one for them, but they, they fought through it and

grinded it out to 17th. Yeah. I mean, you're, you're being very generous to. I am trying to be

bothered. Yeah. I, this was a bad. Yeah. Yes, they got to 17th place. Yeah, but it could have been

worse. That's my point. Like it was, I know, but like, I mean, I mean, I'm trying out of garbage.

They, they were running what, what, he finished 33rd in stage one or something. And he's,

he's, he had three flat tires after stage one, two and, and he had two flat tires in stage two alone,

including one coming to the, uh, checkered and, uh, after that, he was getting the lucky dog.

And, you know, there, there's chatter on the radio. Like, I don't know how to get him to stop

abusing his tires and then he's on the radio saying, man, I'm doing everything I can to preserve

these tires. I thought Eric Eastep had a good, uh, post on X at one point where he's like, I don't

know, there's exact wording, but he's, he's basically like, you know, man, his car is slow and he's

abusing the tires. Like it, it's just, he's, he's driving his butt off and he's still 33rd or whatever.

Like, it, it, it's just, uh, man, that's tough. That's tough. It's, I, I don't know what to

how to fix that for, uh, for Kyle at this point because it doesn't look like he's having any fun,

for sure. Um, I mean, what do you, uh, what do you, what do you do? You're just, you start to look

around and see what else is out there. And I mean, it's so early in the season, you know, new

crew chief that you're optimistic for with Jim Pullman, but you're like, I have, what do you,

this, I don't know, I don't know what you do there. You hate to see Kyle bush, uh, you know,

a legend in this position. What it's been this way, it's just, isn't an RCR thing? Is it a Kyle

thing? I mean, Kyle's isn't great when this car, the stats bear are themselves. I don't know,

you know, it's a change of scenery best for everybody. I don't know, but it's, it's,

it's going to come to a head at some point. It's going to have to be some decisions made,

but at least they got through this today where again, because if this would, if they would have

finished in the thirties, um, I mean, I just feel like it was going to, it had to, it felt like

a powder cake was ready to blow up. Well, um, I was soling on doing the good race pull,

Jordan, because I didn't know if our third member of our, uh, pole guessing contest was going to

participate this week after, um, such a, or maybe I thought maybe he might have forgotten,

and I hadn't gotten a text, but he just texted with his guess chase brisco is chimed in.

So he has submitted his guess. It is very far off from mine. I'll tell you that, um, but he

may have a different view of how this race was. Well, isn't he influenced negatively by

circumstances today? Yeah. I don't know how much he really got to see of like the, you know,

I don't know, but, um, we're, you and I are tied two to two. Poor chase is, his,

his struggles and the points and in the good race pole game. It's got to turn around for him.

It's got to turn around chase. Do you think it matters? The good race pole they

is struggling? Are they buried in points in the, you know, the NASCAR standings? I was just

going to say we're rooting for you in the good race pole to get on the board. I mean, not in my

expense, probably towards expense, but we don't want you to join the game and be shut out.

We can't root in actual standings, but we'd like to see you score some points here in the

good race poles just so you don't regret that you've joined this game. But, um, do you have your

guess ready? I can read you mine and nope. I've got mine. I've got mine. I am going to go with 76%.

Interesting. I've learned not to doubt you why, why what's your reasoning there?

For the reasons we allowed the show, for Phoenix Sanders, this was a good Phoenix race,

popular winner, competitive lead changes, storylines, you had passing, it wasn't single file.

I mean, do we even have a green flight pit stop cycle today? I don't think we did.

No. And so like, moments we thought, oh, this is kind of kind of, you know,

getting to that lol a little bit, something would happen. I think it was, I'm going to say,

what do they say, 76? And I feel like I'm maybe even like, underselling it a little bit.

Okay. Well, Chase went with 68.3. Okay. I do think that's too low. Chase, I'm sorry,

I don't think you're going to win. I mean, maybe I'll, maybe I'll be wrong. That's like,

I mean, now I'm really regretting mine. I was going to go 87.

I think it's a, this was a pretty good, right? I don't understand. I guess what I'm,

I watched this race and I'm like, what, what are you, I guess, what are you, why are you voting no?

Like if you're going to, I know, are you voting no for this people? No. Well, I'm just thinking about

it. I'm just like, okay, you had, you know, if you wanted some action and, you know, if you're like,

oh, I was born, there's no cautions. Well, that wasn't the case. If you're like, oh, I was born,

there's no lead changes. Well, that wasn't the case. If you wanted like the purity of the racing,

you were able to see cars make lots of passes and come up through the field and like,

tire wear mattered and the horsepower mattered. So it was just an overall entertaining

race. Like, I mean, tire strategies mattered. So what's, I guess, it when people are,

you know, like click the no button tomorrow, it's not like the winner was super unpopular or something.

So I just don't know where the, where the nose are. I'm just trying to think through it.

That's why I'm going 87. I hear what you're saying. I don't disagree with you. I thought it was

a very good race. I think if you're a Hendrick fan, maybe you feel, you know, a little frustrated or

you're driving it in win. I get that. I think Phoenix has a roadblock naturally. It's just people

are inclined to just never give this track the benefit of the doubt. And it's because of the

challenges here. So I think that's why I was like, I was thinking like 82, 83-ish. I'm like, well,

I'm going to scale that back a little bit because I just feel like people are just inclined to vote

no for Phoenix regardless. So that, that was why I voted it. Well, I agree. Like, I don't,

if you step back, I like, what, what is it about this race you did? Why? Like, I really will be

curious tomorrow and there applies. And why did people not like this? All right. Well, I just sent

that to him. So he's, he's being informed now that his guess is too low. He says, guess it was

better than I thought. So poor chase. Well, poor chase. Anyway, one of these days,

Chase, it'll all turn around for you. No, man. Anyway, let's see. Anything else from Phoenix?

I feel like I'm forgetting something. I don't know. I had everything covered on my list.

Okay. Well, man, more drama in NASCAR.

You know, sometimes you, you ever feel like somebody's watching you? You feel a little bit paranoid.

And you think, no, that's for crazy movies and, you know, that's, that's, that's a TV series or

something. Nobody's, nobody's following you. Nobody's watching you. Nobody's, well, maybe,

if you're Chris Gabehart and Jeff Dickerson, watch where you're getting those beers, because there's

a private eye, a private investigator on your tail. Seeing where you're going. Are you going

to the race shop? Looks like you are. Yeah. Are you leaving the race shop? You're going together.

You're leaving the race shop together? Where are you going? Hmm. You're going to have lunch? Oh,

okay. What are you guys talking about? Oh, your wife flew on a, on the plane? Hmm. That was a,

so Chris Gabehart's wife flew to last year's championship race on the Jeff Dickerson plane.

If I understand correctly. Yeah. Like, and I'm, I'm, this is going to sound like I'm defending

Gabehart here, and I understand it, but that's not completely uncommon. Like, a lot of drivers

hop flight with different drivers, family members, things like that. So that of itself is not

completely unusual, but then when you look at the totality of everything, you're like,

oh, man, I don't, I don't know if that's, that was probably the best look.

Yeah. Well, I don't know what to make of all this Jordan. This doesn't seem to be the more

that comes out. You're like, woo, this could, you know, now the judge has said that Chris Gabehart

can't have any of the duties that he was going to be, that he already had, but he's chief motor

sports officer at Spire. No. But he was the competition director at JGR. I, and I understand

there are two different things or whatever, I guess, but what are, how different can they be? I mean,

there's, there's still some, gotta be some overlap there, right? Yeah. I mean, you would think

the elder lip, and I will say this, I've talked to Gabehart, I've talked to Spire, and they were

at it. Like, there's two different roles. They have a competition director in Man the Colt,

and that Gabehart's role is above that, and he's not working hands-on with their cup series teams

in the shop. He's not working at the racetrack. We see, you know, every team has a competition

director who is very, you know, present, and there every week is basically like a fifth crew chief

in a lot of respects. That is not his role. It's more of an overarching role where he's going to be

involved in all the other stuff, you know, sprint car stuff, late model stuff, even maybe some

indie car stuff. It's going to be all of that, and it's not a day-to-day competition director role.

That is what they say, but again, if you're the, if you're at the very top, which he is, it seems

like when it comes to the racing side, there's still going to be some things that go in there,

and you read the new filing from Friday night that came out, and they're arguing, like, and Joe

gives racing, he's saying, listen, we don't want him involved. Basically, he's saying, we don't

even want him in the shop. Like, we don't even want him in the same building as their cup series.

You've let alone doing anything you related. No, no, he can't be in the shop, which is a new thing.

So, I will say this, sitting in court last Monday for the hearing when the judge issued the

ruling on the TR. The judge is going through this, and they're like, well, basically, we're

going to grant a limited TRO. You know, he can do, he can work, still work for Spire, we're not

going to take that away. He can still do his job at Spire, but he's not going to be able to do

things that overlap with the competition director role. I am literally sitting there, and I'm like

chomping at the bit. I really just want to shoot up my hand, start waving it, and be like, can

you explain to me what that means? Like, can you give me a clear definition of what he can and

can't do? Because to your point, I agree. I'm confused. I understand what Spire's saying,

but I also feel like there's just enough of a connectivity there where I would like a little

bit more clear guidelines of what is acceptable and what's not. There was nothing that was laid out

in court on Monday, and any of the filing sense that has really clearly stated what he can and can

do. We will say, though, this TRO ruling is only an effect for another week. The next hearing is

coming up on the 17th. Hang on, let me check my calendar two seconds here. The 16th, excuse me,

so basically a week from Monday, and that's going to give some more clarity on how long that TRO

is in place, and maybe on what Gabor can and can't do, but it's a very interesting case. Based on

the conversations that are ongoing, it certainly doesn't feel like this is going away anytime soon,

and that there is a lot of bad blood just going on both sides.

I get what you're saying about, though, the Sprint Car teams and stuff like that, but surely he's

involved in the NASCAR. You have Denny Hamlin at a court filing a declaration as part of this

filing and said that the information that Gabor and Ab was the crown jewels of the JGR operation.

You had Bob Jenkins from Front Road jump into this fray and say, hey, this is not a good thing where

somebody's taking this kind of stuff. So JGR seems pretty pissed about this, like they're not

just going to let this go lightly. So I don't, we'll see where this goes. It's going to be

NASCAR. Give me it all. This is great. I love this. I mean, I was begging for another lawsuit

with the last one ended. I got my wish. This has become even more juicier than we thought it was

going to be. So yeah, give it to me. I love it. I want it all.

All right. But you love NASCAR. It's more exciting sometimes than what's going on the racetrack.

Yeah, no, that's definitely why I was laughing. Anyway, well, everybody lost Vegas is next. I will

be there. But in the meantime, hopefully you've been seeing your podcast feeds. I'll be doing the

Glutcast here from Phoenix on Thursday. I'm staying out. My family is coming down here tomorrow for

spring break. So I will be in Phoenix all week. And then what do you mean? Oh, what's the

exciting thing? The time of the guy spring break with a family like you should just take some time

by yourself or something or take the wife. Just leave the kids at home.

Anyway, so we'll be doing the Glutcast Thursday. And make sure to check that out.

As always, appreciate you checking that out on YouTube or the podcast feed, whatever you prefer.

And then we'll be with you from Las Vegas on Sunday night. So nice for me here, Jordan,

we've now moved to Phoenix. The time doesn't switch here. So I went to bed last night and

we're in the same time zone. Everybody else moved for data saving time. So to yesterday, we were

two hours behind East Coast. Today we're three hours. So right now as we speak, it's only seven

pm here. So it was a 12 30 pm start to the race today. So now I can go have a dinner. Of course,

I have to leave this to our producer Bobby Marcos to edit. But you know, such a nice thing. I

love these West Coast races because they start early enough that a little bit of life. So

anyway, yeah, I hope everybody has a great rest of your weekend, your day. And we will talk to you

next time on The Taredown. See everybody.