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Since 2022, we spent $44 billion with local suppliers supporting good jobs across all 50 states.
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And this year, we're planning to invest about $10.5 billion in American energy projects to help build
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the future right here at home. We put in the work because America depends on it.
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Learn more at chevron.com slash America.
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Hey, welcome back to the Politico Energy Podcast, where we explore the stories and people shaping
0:37
energy and climate policy. I'm Nirmal Michael, your Wednesday and Friday host and executive
0:43
producer of the show. Everyone's favorite energy topic, permitting reform, is getting some new
0:49
life again on the hill. Politico's Kelsey Breuger is reporting that permitting negotiations
0:54
are, in fact, restarting with the White House this time stepping more directly into the mix.
1:00
Now, as you may remember, negotiations had been frozen for weeks now,
1:04
but there are signs of new momentum at a time when rising energy prices and growing electricity
1:09
demand are turning energy affordability into a major political issue ahead of the midterm elections.
1:16
Still, I want to be clear with you. We've seen this story before. Both parties and much of the
1:21
US energy industry say yes, we need permitting reform because it would make it easier and quicker
1:28
to build and improve energy projects. But lawmakers have repeatedly tried and failed to pass major
1:34
legislation since 2022, even though there's interest from pretty much everyone. So today,
1:40
I chat with Kelsey about whether permitting reform is really back on the table, what a potential
1:46
deal could look like and the obstacles ahead. It's Wednesday, March 11th.
2:05
All right, Kelsey Breuger, welcome to the Politico Energy podcast. Appreciate your time.
2:10
Thanks for having me. You're on the scene on the hill, which we appreciate. We're getting the
2:15
news directly from the source. So the biggest thing I got from your recent reporting is that one
2:23
permitting reform is kind of back, which we'll get into and to that the White House has actually
2:29
directly entered the negotiations in a more real kind of serious way. So two developments.
2:35
Why were we even in this position in the first place? Why were negotiations stalled out?
2:41
Yeah, so just to take us back a little bit, permitting reform has been sort of this, has become
2:47
this like catch all buzzword on Capitol Hill, right? But it's really been something that's been around
2:53
for a long time. It's long been a Republican priority. More recently, we've seen Democrats get
3:00
interested in speeding up projects, maybe speeding up environmental reviews for clean energy
3:06
interested in building out the electric grid to bring on clean energy that after the 2022
3:13
inflation reduction act climate law that was intended to spur clean energy throughout the
3:20
country. So for years, we've had these negotiations. They have always like inched closer, but have
3:27
always never really been within striking distance, right? And so this is sort of the third time at it.
3:35
And kind of the biggest thing that happened most recently was we had this momentum in the House
3:40
late last year, the Speed Act from House Natural Resources Chair Bruce Westerman passed the House,
3:48
but as part of that passage, sort of immediately after that, what we saw was the interior department
3:54
issue this sort of stop work order and halted the construction of five offshore wind projects
4:00
that were nearly complete. It was sort of to appease House conservatives and anti-offshore wind
4:08
advocates in the House. So that really frustrated Democrats and Democrats said, look, like
4:15
looked at the Trump administration and thought that their actions were illegal and they couldn't
4:21
trust them to strike any kind of a deal that would be in legislative text. And in their words,
4:27
if the Trump administration wasn't going to follow the law anyway. So immediately after there was
4:33
this momentum in December, this interior stop work order came down and then you had the lead
4:40
negotiators in the Senate, Sheldon White House and Martin Heinrich issued a statement that they
4:45
were going to pause negotiations. People have been continuing to talk informally since then,
4:51
but what we saw last week was them officially saying we are going to lift this pause.
5:00
Yeah, why is that? Why is, you know, as you reported, the White House now coming into the
5:07
fold in this more serious way? And why are Democrats coming back to the table now? What changed
5:13
kind of for both? Right. So what we saw in recent weeks was interior had started moving
5:20
some permits for like large-scale solar projects out west and onshore wind. And so
5:29
some of Democrats kind of looked at that and they said, okay, there's some movement. Maybe there's
5:35
some goodwill on the part of the Trump administration to sort of end what they saw as a clean energy
5:40
blockade. You know, you talk to people who are close to the administration and close to the
5:45
decisions. And they've said that wasn't exactly, this has nothing to do with the permitting
5:50
discussions. And actually that interior was reviewing everything that was on its desk at the
5:58
beginning of a new administration. They review all kinds of permits. And so this was just sort of
6:04
like the natural order of things and these are moving ahead. So, you know, Democrats in their
6:11
statement when last week they said, we're going to lift this like formal pause. They said, okay,
6:16
but you know, barring any further mischief was the actual quote. So it's sort of it's sort of
6:24
TBD exactly how this is going to unfold. Okay. So at minimum though, the pause is lifted. We'll see
6:33
for how long what would the broad framework of this deal kind of look like? Do you have a sense of
6:40
that? And what is the timeline we're talking about? Because I know, I mean, with the midterms
6:45
getting some legislation done, I mean, I feel like the clock is running here a bit.
6:49
Right, right. And that was also kind of why we've seen the White House engage a little bit more
6:55
on this topic, right? They're looking at the midterms and they're saying, oh, this, you know,
6:59
there's lots of discussion about affordability, right? There's lots of discussion about energy prices.
7:04
So I think both sides are saying, oh, maybe, maybe a permitting reform legislation in Congress
7:10
is something that we could say, okay, look, look at what we've been able to achieve. So it's
7:15
possible in theory that a deal could could come together. I think the broad outline of what a deal
7:23
could look like. I think what the White House would really want because the White House,
7:26
a lot of people I think we're thinking, well, you know, the administration has all the power.
7:33
They don't need a deal in Congress. They can do what they want administratively. And I think
7:37
they've used some of those tools, but they're kind of running out of tools. And so a legislative fix
7:43
would be something that would be kind of like the next step. So from the administration's perspective,
7:48
they care about judicial review. They care about kind of limiting who can challenge projects
7:56
in court and kind of the time frame the statute of limitations surrounding that.
8:00
Right? I think Democrats really care about building out transmission still and making sure
8:06
that interconnection piece is there. You know, new, of course, in this administration and in
8:12
this round of talks, as Democrats saying, we really need project certainty language, right?
8:18
We really need to be able to say, okay, if a project has been permitted, if these offshore wind
8:24
projects have been permitted, you know, a future administration can't just come in and
8:29
avoid that, right? So that's the language they're trying to work out right now. That's that's
8:35
difficult, right? Because there's easy, there's, there's loopholes in, in project certainty language.
8:42
We haven't, we haven't actually seen, you know, what does that language look like at this point?
8:47
But yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of questions about other stuff that could be in the mix.
8:52
So, you know, I think what a deal could look like is still remains to be seen. This could really go
8:59
in a lot of different directions. Yeah, I guess to close. I mean, I was going to ask, what are the
9:04
challenges that lay ahead for negotiations? Obviously, it sounds like one is like sorting through the
9:10
actual details and like making sure people are kind of aligned here. But, you know, I hate to kind
9:16
of be a pessimist, but historically, as you mentioned at the top, they've tried this before with
9:21
the similar, you know, kind of broad framework that you kind of laid out and then negotiations failed.
9:27
So what are the obstacles ahead and kind of what's what are you watching out for? Sure. I mean,
9:34
timing is always an obstacle, right? We're in March and I don't think people, you know,
9:40
when I spoke to Senator Capito, chair of the Environment Public Works Committee, you know, she was
9:45
an expecting there to be a big package on the floor. She didn't roll that out, but if you think
9:51
about a deal this big and complicated, you could see, you know, I don't know if there's the floor
9:56
time exists for that and also like, you know, then you're you're you're getting a lot of different
10:02
fights over a lot of different a lot of different pieces when this is all out in public and on the
10:07
floor and that kind of a kind of fashion. So a lot of people are talking about, you know, this may be
10:12
hitching a ride on another legislative vehicle. Maybe that's the highway bill, though there are
10:17
questions about whether that is going to be able to move this year. There's a lot of discussion about,
10:24
okay, potentially the NDA, the National Defense Policy Bill that is a must pass bill at the end
10:31
of the year. That could be something that in a lame duck, you know, maybe there's a deal and
10:37
four corners, meaning leadership in both houses come together and come up with an agreement,
10:43
but realistically, I think the Trump administration could there could take another action that
10:49
could frustrate Democrats. And so they might pause the negotiations again, right? So that's
10:55
potentially another challenge. The mischief. Yes, the mischief exactly. All right. Well, a lot to
11:03
watch out for maybe permitting fourth times the charm we shall see. Kelsey Berger, thanks for joining
11:10
the show. Appreciate your time. Thanks so much for having me. Also, I've got two quick updates for
11:18
you before you go. The energy information administration released its monthly report yesterday,
11:24
and it's sharply raising its forecast for oil and gasoline prices for 2026 as the war in the
11:30
Middle East disrupts global energy markets. The EIA now projects that the global benchmark
11:35
Brent oil price will average $79 a barrel this year, which is up from $58 a barrel in its last
11:42
report in February. In other news, a new report from Wood McKenzie and the Solar Energy Industries
11:48
Association says that US solar capacity is now expected to nearly triple by 2036. That's despite
11:56
the rollback of solar-related tax credits and funding cuts by the Trump administration.
12:02
All right, that's it for Politico Energy. For more news on energy and the environment,
12:06
subscribe to our free newsletter, power switch, and subscribe to Politico Pro to read our
12:11
morning energy newsletter. Stuff into Dorvik is the show's video producer. I'm the show's executive
12:17
producer and co-host Debra Khan, Matt Daly, and Saisyn Eski are the editors of the show. Our theme
12:23
music was made by Pran Bandi. Please subscribe to Politico's YouTube page if you like our content
12:28
and follow our show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nirmal
12:34
Michael, and we'll see you back here on Friday.
12:56
A nation isn't just built. It's powered by people like us. In 2024,
13:01
Chevron increased its US production nearly 20% to help keep energy reliable. Since 2022,
13:08
we spent $44 billion with local suppliers supporting good jobs across all 50 states.
13:13
And this year, we're planning to invest about $10.5 billion in American energy projects to
13:18
help build the future right here at home. We put in the work because America depends on it.
13:23
Learn more at chevron.com-slash-america.