Permitting reform is back. But can Congress actually pass it this time?

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Hey, welcome back to the Politico Energy Podcast, where we explore the stories and people shaping

energy and climate policy. I'm Nirmal Michael, your Wednesday and Friday host and executive

producer of the show. Everyone's favorite energy topic, permitting reform, is getting some new

life again on the hill. Politico's Kelsey Breuger is reporting that permitting negotiations

are, in fact, restarting with the White House this time stepping more directly into the mix.

Now, as you may remember, negotiations had been frozen for weeks now,

but there are signs of new momentum at a time when rising energy prices and growing electricity

demand are turning energy affordability into a major political issue ahead of the midterm elections.

Still, I want to be clear with you. We've seen this story before. Both parties and much of the

US energy industry say yes, we need permitting reform because it would make it easier and quicker

to build and improve energy projects. But lawmakers have repeatedly tried and failed to pass major

legislation since 2022, even though there's interest from pretty much everyone. So today,

I chat with Kelsey about whether permitting reform is really back on the table, what a potential

deal could look like and the obstacles ahead. It's Wednesday, March 11th.

All right, Kelsey Breuger, welcome to the Politico Energy podcast. Appreciate your time.

Thanks for having me. You're on the scene on the hill, which we appreciate. We're getting the

news directly from the source. So the biggest thing I got from your recent reporting is that one

permitting reform is kind of back, which we'll get into and to that the White House has actually

directly entered the negotiations in a more real kind of serious way. So two developments.

Why were we even in this position in the first place? Why were negotiations stalled out?

Yeah, so just to take us back a little bit, permitting reform has been sort of this, has become

this like catch all buzzword on Capitol Hill, right? But it's really been something that's been around

for a long time. It's long been a Republican priority. More recently, we've seen Democrats get

interested in speeding up projects, maybe speeding up environmental reviews for clean energy

interested in building out the electric grid to bring on clean energy that after the 2022

inflation reduction act climate law that was intended to spur clean energy throughout the

country. So for years, we've had these negotiations. They have always like inched closer, but have

always never really been within striking distance, right? And so this is sort of the third time at it.

And kind of the biggest thing that happened most recently was we had this momentum in the House

late last year, the Speed Act from House Natural Resources Chair Bruce Westerman passed the House,

but as part of that passage, sort of immediately after that, what we saw was the interior department

issue this sort of stop work order and halted the construction of five offshore wind projects

that were nearly complete. It was sort of to appease House conservatives and anti-offshore wind

advocates in the House. So that really frustrated Democrats and Democrats said, look, like

looked at the Trump administration and thought that their actions were illegal and they couldn't

trust them to strike any kind of a deal that would be in legislative text. And in their words,

if the Trump administration wasn't going to follow the law anyway. So immediately after there was

this momentum in December, this interior stop work order came down and then you had the lead

negotiators in the Senate, Sheldon White House and Martin Heinrich issued a statement that they

were going to pause negotiations. People have been continuing to talk informally since then,

but what we saw last week was them officially saying we are going to lift this pause.

Yeah, why is that? Why is, you know, as you reported, the White House now coming into the

fold in this more serious way? And why are Democrats coming back to the table now? What changed

kind of for both? Right. So what we saw in recent weeks was interior had started moving

some permits for like large-scale solar projects out west and onshore wind. And so

some of Democrats kind of looked at that and they said, okay, there's some movement. Maybe there's

some goodwill on the part of the Trump administration to sort of end what they saw as a clean energy

blockade. You know, you talk to people who are close to the administration and close to the

decisions. And they've said that wasn't exactly, this has nothing to do with the permitting

discussions. And actually that interior was reviewing everything that was on its desk at the

beginning of a new administration. They review all kinds of permits. And so this was just sort of

like the natural order of things and these are moving ahead. So, you know, Democrats in their

statement when last week they said, we're going to lift this like formal pause. They said, okay,

but you know, barring any further mischief was the actual quote. So it's sort of it's sort of

TBD exactly how this is going to unfold. Okay. So at minimum though, the pause is lifted. We'll see

for how long what would the broad framework of this deal kind of look like? Do you have a sense of

that? And what is the timeline we're talking about? Because I know, I mean, with the midterms

getting some legislation done, I mean, I feel like the clock is running here a bit.

Right, right. And that was also kind of why we've seen the White House engage a little bit more

on this topic, right? They're looking at the midterms and they're saying, oh, this, you know,

there's lots of discussion about affordability, right? There's lots of discussion about energy prices.

So I think both sides are saying, oh, maybe, maybe a permitting reform legislation in Congress

is something that we could say, okay, look, look at what we've been able to achieve. So it's

possible in theory that a deal could could come together. I think the broad outline of what a deal

could look like. I think what the White House would really want because the White House,

a lot of people I think we're thinking, well, you know, the administration has all the power.

They don't need a deal in Congress. They can do what they want administratively. And I think

they've used some of those tools, but they're kind of running out of tools. And so a legislative fix

would be something that would be kind of like the next step. So from the administration's perspective,

they care about judicial review. They care about kind of limiting who can challenge projects

in court and kind of the time frame the statute of limitations surrounding that.

Right? I think Democrats really care about building out transmission still and making sure

that interconnection piece is there. You know, new, of course, in this administration and in

this round of talks, as Democrats saying, we really need project certainty language, right?

We really need to be able to say, okay, if a project has been permitted, if these offshore wind

projects have been permitted, you know, a future administration can't just come in and

avoid that, right? So that's the language they're trying to work out right now. That's that's

difficult, right? Because there's easy, there's, there's loopholes in, in project certainty language.

We haven't, we haven't actually seen, you know, what does that language look like at this point?

But yeah, I think, I think there's a lot of questions about other stuff that could be in the mix.

So, you know, I think what a deal could look like is still remains to be seen. This could really go

in a lot of different directions. Yeah, I guess to close. I mean, I was going to ask, what are the

challenges that lay ahead for negotiations? Obviously, it sounds like one is like sorting through the

actual details and like making sure people are kind of aligned here. But, you know, I hate to kind

of be a pessimist, but historically, as you mentioned at the top, they've tried this before with

the similar, you know, kind of broad framework that you kind of laid out and then negotiations failed.

So what are the obstacles ahead and kind of what's what are you watching out for? Sure. I mean,

timing is always an obstacle, right? We're in March and I don't think people, you know,

when I spoke to Senator Capito, chair of the Environment Public Works Committee, you know, she was

an expecting there to be a big package on the floor. She didn't roll that out, but if you think

about a deal this big and complicated, you could see, you know, I don't know if there's the floor

time exists for that and also like, you know, then you're you're you're getting a lot of different

fights over a lot of different a lot of different pieces when this is all out in public and on the

floor and that kind of a kind of fashion. So a lot of people are talking about, you know, this may be

hitching a ride on another legislative vehicle. Maybe that's the highway bill, though there are

questions about whether that is going to be able to move this year. There's a lot of discussion about,

okay, potentially the NDA, the National Defense Policy Bill that is a must pass bill at the end

of the year. That could be something that in a lame duck, you know, maybe there's a deal and

four corners, meaning leadership in both houses come together and come up with an agreement,

but realistically, I think the Trump administration could there could take another action that

could frustrate Democrats. And so they might pause the negotiations again, right? So that's

potentially another challenge. The mischief. Yes, the mischief exactly. All right. Well, a lot to

watch out for maybe permitting fourth times the charm we shall see. Kelsey Berger, thanks for joining

the show. Appreciate your time. Thanks so much for having me. Also, I've got two quick updates for

you before you go. The energy information administration released its monthly report yesterday,

and it's sharply raising its forecast for oil and gasoline prices for 2026 as the war in the

Middle East disrupts global energy markets. The EIA now projects that the global benchmark

Brent oil price will average $79 a barrel this year, which is up from $58 a barrel in its last

report in February. In other news, a new report from Wood McKenzie and the Solar Energy Industries

Association says that US solar capacity is now expected to nearly triple by 2036. That's despite

the rollback of solar-related tax credits and funding cuts by the Trump administration.

All right, that's it for Politico Energy. For more news on energy and the environment,

subscribe to our free newsletter, power switch, and subscribe to Politico Pro to read our

morning energy newsletter. Stuff into Dorvik is the show's video producer. I'm the show's executive

producer and co-host Debra Khan, Matt Daly, and Saisyn Eski are the editors of the show. Our theme

music was made by Pran Bandi. Please subscribe to Politico's YouTube page if you like our content

and follow our show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nirmal

Michael, and we'll see you back here on Friday.

A nation isn't just built. It's powered by people like us. In 2024,

Chevron increased its US production nearly 20% to help keep energy reliable. Since 2022,

we spent $44 billion with local suppliers supporting good jobs across all 50 states.

And this year, we're planning to invest about $10.5 billion in American energy projects to

help build the future right here at home. We put in the work because America depends on it.

Learn more at chevron.com-slash-america.