Peter Thiel's 2026 Gen Z Psyop EXPOSED | Jack Mac

0:00This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, you have ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting Work Mode, Avail Bomb Plus, and Pro Plants. Hey guys, if you're not following me on Spotify, please hit that follow button and leave a five-star review. They're both a huge, huge help. Thank you. I remember when I was at five years old, I remember thinking about like, what happens when you die? And it's never left me. What do you mean it's never left me? Like I always think about that. Not always. That's the wrong way to say it. But I remember, I was like five years old and I remember, I was like, oh, maybe I cried out. I remember asking my mom. I was like, what happens when you die? What did she say? She was like, oh, your grandma's in heaven.

1:01And that's what happens. And that's what's going to, and if you're a good person, I was five. But I've always thought, and it's just kind of death in general. I'm always thinking about your morality. It's like, damn. And this place goes on forever. What happens after that? It gives me anxiety. In a way that's, I can operate with. It's not like a deathly anxiety, but it's something that's probably been in humans forever. Like that kind of like not in your stomach where you're like, wait, what happens after this? But the people that I envy the most are the guys that like modern day people that just don't care. The guy that goes into the boxing ring or an MMA cage says, fuck it, I don't care. I'm gonna go, right? I'm gonna go fight. And yeah, I could really, like something really awful could happen. Lock that cage, just to me and another man and we're gonna fight until the end. Now, obviously there's a ref, there's rules. But those are the people that I look at. I'm like, holy shit, those are guys that don't give a fuck. Yeah. You have to have a like a certain thing within inside of you

2:02that's just, and I'm talking even people that do it, not even like, oh, you can talk about Ilya Tapori. You can talk about Terence Crawford. You can talk about Floyd Mayweather. But I'm talking, even people like kind of just do it. To do it. To do it. Yeah, everyone's wired differently. And there's two things I always remind myself because I want to take a step back for a second and go back to a question you asked a minute ago. But like number one, I've only ever lived between my two years. I can psychologically look at data and see how other people think. I think I can never fully know how each individual thinks. And number two, and this is why I want to go back to your question. One thing I always say is people, and sometimes I get caught doing it too, and I just did. People throw around the term, if I were blank, then I would blank about very serious things all the time. And the fact of the matter is, you never fully know until your face would have to sit you right here. So no one has ever put anywhere near a billion dollars in front of me to be very clear. Okay. What I can say though, is that I have had a lot of money and default test to this, a less you'll test this.

3:02I've had a lot of money put in front of me and test from people. And I have instantaneously said no, because whatever that thing is, and maybe that's why I'm not well capitalized, maybe that's why I don't own a house, maybe that's why I haven't made nearly as much money on the show as I have. But that thing that exists in people to wear like the ultimate scorecard is how much money they're making at all times. I don't have that. I never have. I am a fulfillment guy. I am a guy that when I go to bed at night, if I look in the mirror, I'm like, do I enjoy what I do? Like I think Gary Vee used to have a term about this. There's people who are romantic about how they make money. And he wasn't necessarily complimentary, complimentary, in saying that, but I realized early on, you know what, I am romantic about how I make money. I only wanna make money on things that I really actually value in things that make me feel good. And if that makes me weaker than other people and being able to move forward with a bank account, like other people can, and I can't, I'm fine with that. Yeah. I also think, and this is probably something,

4:03and this is what friends tell me, my parents tell me they're very supportive, they're great. I feel like that's one of the luckiest things you can ever have is like really supportive parents or even just one. But both of mine, I just lucked out. I don't want to bother with that. Me too. And this is what I'm gonna tell you, like the impact you have is like, I mean, I know you don't believe this. It's otherworldly. You're probably of, I mean, it's tough to say, but of people in media, like, I mean, there's not a lot of people doing what you're doing. I think you were thinking of it. I know, but I really truly mean that. It's like, I mean, we could pull up your numbers, but like having consistently six figure, seven figure views on podcasting episodes, just on YouTube, we don't see the audio numbers. We don't have that publicly, but like then you add those up and you can like calculate, you think about it. That's an impact that like you can't, you can put a monetary value on it, but it's, it's, you, I don't think that really matters for you.

5:06And you may even have a reputation because I know how all these places work. Every fucking talent agency in the world knows who you are. Every UTA, CAA, WME, but in every company, not every company, because marking these people, like, and that's another discussion for another time, where it's like, who runs marketing, that's another discussion for another time. But these people know, but they also probably know, it's like, oh, he doesn't want to do it. They know it like, it's so strange. But like, like, and then they're like, I'm at W, I've been at WME for a long time. I love my agent. He's great. Yeah, but like those are people that there's, because then we get to the discussion of, and this kind of goes back to Peter Teal. It's like, they've always tried to have those types of people in their back pockets. And you go and this goes to JD Vance. And then it goes into, it's like, oh, when did he start to have a connection with this person that turns out to be what's Peter Teal, top 10 most powerful person in the world? That we had to guess publicly?

6:07That we know of. That we know of. How big is the then it's, but how do they get these new people? And that's where I don't know. That's that's a great question, man. And because they would start these, and it's always interesting when I hear it's like, they would run these newspapers in these college towns. And they would like, Peter Teal, or they would invest in them. And they would, and they would find, and there was other people, there was people out, this is how they would find specific political people. I forget the name. They would invest heavily. And these are people that would kind of be hand selected to be the next, because they see how they write. And like there would be people underneath these powerful people reading all these, and they would find. This is Ethief? Yes, the Stanford Review. In 1987, Teal co-founded the Stanford Review, a conservative and libertarian student newspaper, at Stanford University, ongoing support,

7:08Teal's maintained relationship with the paper for over 35 years, providing financial donations and acting as a mentor to staff. And Peter Teal's not unique in this. There's people that throughout, specifically, this is how like Rhino's kind of worked with within like the Republican Party, where they would find these people that are politically active in college. And then obviously, if they're writing for the right one newspaper within the college or the review, whatever it is, then they would find and see who they thought was really talented. And then they would kind of take them under their wing. They would get a really good job. They would get a, or not even a really good job. They would say, hey, you want to come work for us? And then this person who has these grandiose ideas in college gets told, we want to help you run for somewhere in a small district. And then before you fucking know it, you're a senator, and they come back and say, hey, remember me? Or hey, we've been with you the whole time. This needs to get through.

8:08And then along the way, if you're thinking really crazy, I mean, think about all the things that we've done is like throughout my 20s to 29. Oh, everyone can get got in a way, with fake stuff too. With fake fake stuff too. And like get gotten in ways, it's just like, even just a conversation you had at the bar with your buddies that you didn't really mean or anything. You get got. You get got. And then it's this search in Peter Teales, not unique in this. I'm sure somebody will point it out in the comments. One of if not the most common DMs I get on Instagram are many of you asking me what my favorite books are. Well, today's your lucky day, because if you use the link in my description below to join my newsletter, I'm gonna give you my top 10 book recommendations right now. Also, if you'd like to join my clipping community for a chance to make money producing content from the show, you can do so via the discord link in my description below. And finally, you can join my Patreon for early uncensored releases of the full episodes via the Patreon link about a subscription below. As always, please take one second to hit that subscribe button. If you haven't already, I really appreciate that.

9:10Also, the like buttons, a big help. And you can join my newsletter via the link in the description. There's other people that have been doing this for a while. I think I forget the name, but there's people, if you can tie back a lot of politicians, and this is kind of what the chicken are the egg. Because if you're writing for a public or for a newspaper in college, you're probably likely to get involved in politics. But they also kind of, they're always keeping an eye on it. And then I wouldn't be surprised now if they're always keeping an eye on people that are making videos. That's the new newspaper. They find the 18, 19 year old, and they say, hey, you're taking the words on right, Dave just said it, clavicular. Okay. It was fun in him. Well, so I interviewed him. You did? What's he like? Really neurodiversion. Yeah, but finally, I know shit, Sherlock. You know what's crazy? You want to see it in all prep? Yeah, you did. You're from Hoboken. Yeah, I think I know some kids who went to school with him. I don't know if anyone's funding him. Now, he did just open a club with people

10:12that are a little bit more on Jewish mafia side. A little bit of Israeli mafia side, which I've heard some things that aren't great. Like what? I just think it was more so. I, not that I heard it specifically, but it was more like, look them up. Like, here, I could get the name. When did you interview him? Right before he shot that alligator. He told me like tiptoe maxing shit. Tiptoe maxing. Wait, let me find my gun. Climb. Channel five reported bad. So I what what a channel five reported. Yeah, so I was that more like a conspiratorial type video. But I think they were a little bit more of a. So that's always been the thought. Where is there's like a guy like Uncle T or something like that who gives him all these donations?

11:13Yeah, and here's where the thought is. Peter Teal talks about like transcending, which is dangerously close to ascending the human race and creating like a second digital race. And basically like promoting transhumanism ideas and whatever. And I'm just saying here, Jack Mac, if I wanted to hack culture to create that, I would convince an entire generation of men that they got to take fucking 60 million drugs and looks, Macs and not reproduce and fucking castrate themselves and to perpetuate whatever it is, you know, just to try to keep up with the Joneses and create that standard. I mean, when you listen to, I actually feel as much as I joke about it and whatever with, with clavicular, I empathize with the kid and more specifically like I feel, I don't know if this is the right word, but like pity for him, you know, because he's been, he clearly is very neurodivergent, as you said.

12:13So he's got, he's, and I think he was a nonverbal autistic for a couple of years when he was, when he was a child. So like he has some actual rooted health issues and society was able to torture him in such a way that he feels like this is the only way to be able to exist among people. And unfortunately at age 20, he doesn't have, he's just out there trying to make money and doing his thing. He doesn't understand what he's being used for in my opinion. And there's people who would be like, who knows? Darren will always do it maybe, but like I think he's just a really dumb, fucking young kid and he's been just thrown into this spotlight out of nowhere. And I feel bad for him. Yeah. So he was, he's a smart guy as a lot of neurodivergent people are. He knows, I would say like if you IQ tested him, it would be very high. You know, he's from Hologram. Yeah. And I think he's just, I mean, it's a great question.

13:15I mean, and you have to think about it. We're talking about all of these newspapers and college newspapers. And I was telling like, oh, they found that JD Vance and all that. Yeah, they probably are doing what tick talking to. I mean, but here's the thing with Klaev. I've known about him for a while. When did you first find out about him two summers ago? And for people out there, a lot of people listening do know who he is because he's been astroturfed all over the internet, but for people out there who don't know who he is and what his thing is, can you give a full context on that? So Klavicular has risen to fame recently for specifically streaming and being a look smaxer. And also the look smaxing is essentially the, if you're a look smaxing or you're a guy, it's and it's just essentially, it's just trying to become better looking, but he uses very aggressive techniques. So that would be that would be like hammering your face to try to break small bones within it. And then it re-grows and gives you better cheekbones and which is all feature.

14:16That's apparently pseudo science. Yeah. That may be. I don't know if this is I do not. I'm not endorsing this. But this guy that was like, yeah, like I think he took like H.E.H. Like a like steroids when he was younger. I don't know if that's confirmed, but this is like what a lot of the looks, maxing community is saying. And then you are, especially when you're younger, it's the chance to really, like you can do things that your, because your body is morphing into what it's going to be. So you can be a lot more aggressive. You can't his thing. I don't know if this is true, but you can't get taller once your growth plates close, of course, but you can be a little bit more aggressive when you're younger, he says. And like also you can be aggressive with all these drugs, but also you can really fuck up your entrance system. And it can be really, really bad. Now he's risen because he's kind of funny in his own way. He has this weird way of talking, which is terms like gesture, which is just clown.

15:17Gooning, which is, was already pretty popular, but like gesture, maxing looks, maxing, and he adds, maxing to the end. Like we're podcasts, maxing right now. He went up to a girl once on stream when he was having a party and she was sitting alone. He's like, oh, are you okay? You're alone, maxing right now. But he says it. And so I was talking to him. And I was like, don't you find the comedy in this? And he was like, no, anyone that thinks that's funny is retarded. And I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, I don't want to be disrespected to you. I was like, do you really mean it's like, no, I think that's just how I talk. And anyone that thinks it's funny is, is just wrong. That's just how I talk. And I don't, and he says, I don't get why people clip it and it gets hundreds of millions views and all of this. But also this is a guy that that's why he's popular. And he's, and I've said, do you think you've created kind of, because his whole thing I asked him. It was very apparent. You and I are having a conversation right now. We take joy in this conversation.

16:17I was like, it feels like you don't take joy in anything. And he said, he's like, yeah, that's just how I'm wired. And then I said, what gives you joy? And there's this crazy, but he said without, and within a second, he said, math. And he, he, and I was like, are you still take math? And he's like, no, not anymore. But I was like, but that's what fire drew up. He's like, that's what fires. Yeah. And I was like, what about helping looks Max? And he's like, yeah, but no one really wants to do that anymore. And I said, well, do you think you've kind of created this community that doesn't really value anymore? He's like, yeah, that's definitely a possibility. Just because he has such a big, I mean, this looks like this is a very, this should be a very small community point, zero, zero, zero, zero, one percent of the internet. Now what are the effects of this? Dude, I, and that's the thing. I was so fucking stupid when I was 20 years old. I was stupid when I was 25. Exactly. You know, so I have always felt bad for these kids at any level of attention when they're thrown into the spotlight.

17:23And then they have to look stupid in front of the world. And then maybe they convince everyone else to be stupid too. So that's why I empathize with him. But like, what, you know, he's 20 now, but he was starting this stuff when he was as far as I've seen. Like when he's like 16, where the fuck were his parents? You know, your kids in the bathroom, I don't know. Your neurodivergent kid, by the way, is in the bathroom hammering his face. I remember I saw a clip to him talking about his mom would like try to take away his hammer. Yeah. I never took away her. But like, clearly, something's off here. They maybe get some help. Well, they took them, they took away his past ports too because he wanted to go to Turkey to get double jaw surgery. In double jaw surgery for those that don't know, would be to like a sensuate. But here's the thing. If you look at this kid, I mean, the kid is a good looking guy out ready. But he says there's are, you know, how broke he's on 12 milligrams of redditude tide. Of what? Redd it's a peptide. What does this one do? Epit, it's like a, you know how GLP ones, it works on one receptor.

18:28Then there's like a not much. There's another one that works on two receptors, reddow works on three. But it's a peptide is not approved by the FDA. You get it from China or Mexico. It's gonna, my prediction is someone may be watching this by the time that it gets approved because these pharmaceutical companies like HIMS, like Lily, all of them. There they see, well, if you look up Google trends, reddow gets searched like no other. People are obsessed with it. So that means they want that to come in. RfK junior has talked about it on Rogan saying that he's going to get some of them in. This is all the peptide craze. But here's the thing about Klaev. Klaev's been around. Klaev was a part of this weird thing on the internet called the cookie verse. With the reverse. So this is when I get very just like, this is cookie. So there was this weird swat your hair jack. Yeah. Keep cookie. Yeah. So there's this guy and he's still popular online. You can look him up. His name's cookie king. Big on TikTok specifically for Kays, probably 14 to maybe 21.

19:30But usually like a lot of his fans were very young and his name's cookie king. And he created this cookie verse where he had a lot of people that he would just, he post like 20, 25 times a day. And a lot of them, these cookie verses, he meets all these people. Klaev was a part of it. Here's a cookie king. This is real. And you know Santa Cruz medicinal. Yes. He he does this locked in and he's tried to help. He I would say is a great guy who's older. That's not the Peter Till. He's helping trillies like guys, just go to the gym. You know, I take all these crazy things. Your hormones are through the fucking roof. All right. He's just go to the gym or 18. You can you can put on all the muscle in the world. And he's he does these locked in events and he did it with cookie king ones. And he did it and Klaev was there. And this is this was this past summer. That's when I really got and saw Klaev for the first time beyond just kind of some random videos. But looks Maxing became very popular in TikTok in 2022 to 2023.

20:33And then Klaev was kind of doing that and he was already big. There was these forums that exist. And then he did on TikTok and then he kind of he is what he is now. But he's been around. Do I think he was funded? This episode is brought to you by chat GPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about chat GPT work? It's the new way to use chat GPT for bigger multi step projects. And when you need more than just answers, you have chat GPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides and structured reports. Get started at chat GPT dot com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans. Your favorite friend group is back. FX's adults follows five roommates living in New York, leaning on each other to navigate love, work, friendship and family, while tackling pressing questions of your 20s like, what if the person who inherited your fake ID is cooler than you ever were?

21:33Why does being around your family make you regress into your worst self? And how do you tell your roommates that you have other friends? FX's adults, all episodes now streaming on Hulu. My guess is no, but nothing was surprised me. That's what I'm saying, dude. When I look at different ways, Tyler, all of there and I were talking about this in episode 363 when he was in here. But like, when I look at different ways as to how I would destroy, collapse society upon itself, there's, there's a 100, maybe a thousand different broad variables you need to do that. This is wonderful. No, this is how this is how you destroy it. When when you start making people destroy who they are as a person, to try to win the affection and appeal of other people strictly on that metric. And then you mainstream that and make that the popular thing so that other kids who are highly, you know, how impressionable. I was impressionable when I was 27. I'm impressionable now.

22:35Yeah, absolutely. But like on a whole nother level and then you look at these 18 year olds, pro, I was an only child. I was on an island like I was looking around going, all right, what are we supposed to do? Like it makes me so sad and it's and it's also pushing men and women away from each other because that's another thing. And I put a tweet out about this, you know, and maybe some of its maturity and I'm a little older and I've been where I need to be and I know what I want in women. But like when you look at all these women that he's hanging out with and fucking and glorifying and it to be clear what he does. What does he do? All of those women are like a lot of them are her, his only fans models and he makes money off of them. So it's like an, it's like the internet pimping and so on. You're making my point for me. He when you see what is now being glorified. All these girls are like the most pro, I was going to say the most prototypical club girls. Well, now you're telling me they're even like fucking only fans models and like just getting back to our basic evolution.

23:38When I see these clips of these women, they do not possess a single trait that you look for in a mother of your child. Not one. Yeah. Not one. Yeah. He. But here's the thing. I don't think he thinks about it like that. Of course he doesn't. That's the point. I What would go if I was to make a case for why he's not what he is or not funded is his PR guy was this guy by the name of Mitchell Jackson. Mitchell Jackson runs and this was a famous tweet. He runs like the Arkham. Jail, what's the Arkham asylum? He's he runs an Arkham asylum of people. He runs. If you look up Arkham asylum Mitchell Jackson tweeted you should see who is his PR people. This guy's the nicest guy in the world. I love this guy, Mitchell Jackson, but I'm going to show you his list of people that he represents. He represents the Arkham asylum. Candace Owens. Yeah, I got to see this.

24:38If we can use he's going back before we can use the camera to a little more. That's good. Yeah, I want to see what you're talking about here. I'm not familiar with this. Yeah, so Mitchell Jackson, but he dropped him recently, Mitchell did drop because he was concerned about his drug usage. Look up Mitchell Jackson type in jack on Google. If you look it up on Google, if you just type in Mitchell Jackson Arkham asylum, the first tweet will pop up because I looked it up. I think literally yesterday. All right, we got it. So bro is running Arkham. Described quote on quote interloper, the 33 year old PR pro is a custom to working behind the scenes on behalf of high profile and quit and frequently shit stirring clients, such as Candace Owens, Brett Cooper, Adam Friedland, Caroline Callaway and Adam 22. Quote, I gravitate towards clientele that have something to say because otherwise I'd be bored. Jackson tells me adding, oh, this is from Taylor Lorenz.

25:43So Taylor Lorenz. I also interviewed Taylor Lorenz. Wait, is he at an agency or is he just a PR guy? Just a PR guy. This is not like a CIA guy or something like that. Okay. Now, maybe Mitchell Jackson is fucking bought off. You never know. But Mitchell Jackson, and here's the thing when I interviewed Klaaf, I got asked. They asked the company. I was like, I'll do it. And then I should do it. And I showed up. He showed up like a Klaaf was still sleeping and then Mitchell showed up. He had like a, he got, he showed up with food. He was eating and we were just chewing the shaneless like, yeah, Klaaf will be up in a few minutes. And then he would do you have to pay for it? No. Interesting. And then I think some people have, but they asked like, and this is when he's doing this 30 day stream, where he ended up eventually getting arrested. But he, but in the midst of it, they need stuff to do. And that was when I was the day after two days after Andrew Kelley and interviewed him and Klaaf ended the interview early. And Mitchell was like, oh, can you just not do it about politics?

26:45And I said, yeah, I don't really want to talk to him about it. I know like you could definitely talk to him about all. I mean, he was a part of an international incident with Andrew Tade and Nick Fuentes when they played Hale in the club. Oh, yeah. And so, but I was, I don't really, I would rather talk to him about, I'd rather talk to him about his, like, I want to get inside the mind of what makes him tick. Right. And I want to talk about the looks, Maxing stuff. And I mean, I, the saddest part was when he's like, yeah, I was like, does anything fire you up? Not real. Matthew, which is kind of sad. That's so sad. But Mitchell Jackson dropped him and said you need to get help and I won't return to helping you until it's very funny because Mitchell Jackson he's this centric gay man. He's just, he's, he's. He's a bear. There's he is, he is, you know, he's gay and he, his relationship with Clevver Pretty Funny is like, Clevver is this gay PR person but Clevver is really like him. And ever since Mitchell said you have to get sober,

27:45Klaive has claimed, he's been sober. Claimed. Yeah, I mean, I- What did he do, he just like OD'd on a stream or something? Yeah, but he takes these like beta blockers and then he adds alcohol on the mix and then he adds a bunch of other shit. Boy, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he's not, is he 20? He's not even drinking age. He just turned 21. Yeah, okay. That is fucking good turn. This is it. This, okay, so yeah, he's the kind of the original OG looks, Max or YouTube, like remember Rich Pianna? Rich Pianna. Rich Pianna. You've not shown, show me a picture of Rich Pianna. Sometimes the names don't do it for me. He was like eight hour dumbbell session. You'll recognize this guy. This guy was OG internet legend. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He unfortunately died a recent piece to him. I loved his videos. He was so funny. What? He died in clear water. Yeah. Rich Pianna, 5% nutrition. He was unbelievable. But Ziz, he was huge. Clav is kind of like him too, but then there was another guy, forget his name.

28:46Do you see, do you see this ending not tragically? Well, they both died. I know, that's what I'm saying. For, do you see, and like, I don't mean to be morbid around here. I wish clavicular nothing but the best. And I hope he comes off all the shit he's doing. But like, do you think we are sitting here five years from now talking about someone who is still alive? Yeah, you do. You think he'll live the next five years? I think he's so neurodivergent that if he gets help from off of drugs, he's so focused in a way that is, could be valuable for him. He doesn't like going out. That's why he took drugs, is why he told me. But he kind of has this weird kind of bad feedback loop where good content for him is being out in public. He said, he's a guy that he's told me, and when we were interviewing, it's like, he's a guy that could go and be in a set of hours for two weeks,

29:47not talk to a fucking single person, and it wouldn't matter to him. Yep. Maybe he'll talk to people online, but not really. But he's a guy that, and he says the reason that I take these drugs is because literally the day that I interviewed him, he tried to go out to a club that night without any drugs in any panic attack. Yeah. It is, that's the sad part. I feel bad for the kid. But in the news, this bad feedback loop where it's like the content that my people want is not me talking about looks nice, but want me to go out to the club and be mean to like a, like a blonde chick, you know? Let me tell you some, man, I don't know anything about the type of content he does. I don't know anything about the streaming world or the instantaneous reaction like that. So I have to speak from a separate address here, if you will. But if you fall into that trap of just giving what you think, I won't even call it people. What you think the algorithm once at all times, you will completely lose yourself. And this is where I give myself a little bit of grace

30:48for maybe starting later than I should have. In the years when I was trying to find myself and figure out what I wanted to do with my life, when I should have had the answers in front of me, one of the things I did unbeknownst to me, this was gonna be useful, is I watched people online and across all different sectors and how they would change and what would change them and what the crowd would do to them and how they would react and how they would live through it. And there were so many valuable, it's not to say I'm perfect by any stretch, but there were so many valuable lessons I learned before I ever even bought a fucking camera that I had all these examples of like, ooh, remember when that guy did that thing because he thought that was gonna be, don't do that. Yeah, and you wanna be really, you wanna be very careful, especially about just, yeah, just be yourself. And also, it happens in a lot of different ways. It can happen with the fame becomes too much or you try to seek out something that you think owed to you.

31:48That's where it's like, oh, I have this amount of views, followers, I should be this, that or the other. And then also there's a lot of people that, if you can't take, like, you need to be able, you have to have a weird thick skin in a way that I think there's, I know people that have thick skin but they can't take criticism online and it kills them along. I've kind of, I'm like beyond past that, I'm kind of good, but I still have it, like you're a human, you hear things and you don't wanna, you don't wanna, but the person that can kind of just continue on and not, but there's a lot of people that, just the criticism eats them alive. I've seen it happen and they just are never the same. And maybe that's good for them, maybe that wasn't, it wasn't, the internet wasn't for them and their own way, but and then people change a lot. And to be willing to accept it, man. And also I think there has to be a grace for yourself that is I'm gonna figure it out, but it's tough. I mean, I'm still, I spend so much of my time feeling

32:51like I haven't figured it out. That and that's probably, that's the catastrophizing and the spiraling, which isn't valuable for the days tasks. That part's not valuable, but the idea that you are operating under the assumption at all times that your shit does stink is a huge asset. Now, spiraling, I agree, you gotta find that middle ground, but like the alternative of like, I can't do shit wrong, bitch, you're done when you do that. Like there was an old quote, ironically, from Conor McGregor, who ended up living in the long way, where he goes, people get comfortable with a win. They get real comfortable with a win and when you get comfortable with a win, that's how you get a loss. You know what's so interesting in this, probably like MMA, you have seen so much. I also heard from somebody, I don't know if it was this guy, but I think it was, Kamaru's man, he said, he lost two or three in a row for the first time in like ever. And he said, it's easy, you can get used to losing.

33:53So it's also both sides, it's so funny, our life is just both sides. But McGregor, I watch old McGregor clips. I'm like, this guy was the one. He was the one. He was in a way that he was gonna lose and like, he was gonna lose the guys like a beep. But a beep, even handled would be pretty well. He took around often before he got finished, which is insane to say, he could have went back to the lab. He was there, he was alive. There was a time where he would have... The money we lost, the McGregor, and he could have been like a movie like... And even if it was, now it's sad, I mean, the drugs got him. Yeah, I think it's a little bit better now, but it's just, we lost the prime of his. He went on a run that is unlike, it doesn't happen a lot. There won't be, and I said, that's a lot. I talked about MMA and UFC. We'll never see another comment. Once I think what did it, and I've said this for a long time,

34:55was the May weather fight. He went eight rounds with a still brilliant Floyd May weather, the best boxer in the world, the greatest defensive boxer, probably defensively of all the time. And made fucking $60 million in one fell swoop. And it was like, how do you top that? It's like, it would be like... Fucking, what's a really good example here? Like Patrick Mahomes deciding to play in the NBA one day and dropping 35. They don't win, but he drops 35 in a game where he's lined up against prime LeBron and Durant. Right? Like, that's what he pulled off. And it's almost like that old Hagler quote where he's like, it's really hard to get up before AM and work when you're sleeping in soap pajamas. He got into the soap pajamas and he couldn't recreate that. You know, I was out there with the blombers and the lorning my friend, you know, I was making nothing. So the only, and I think what also contributed to it

35:56was he had this rivalry right after it with Habib. That was happening throughout. That brought out that instinctual kind of warfare that every man kind of has. And then once it was over, like he had it against Dustin, but then Dustin knocks him out. And then he fights Dustin again. Dustin's beating him up his leg, his leg is... And then he's finished. But even that, I don't think he was in... Like he was... And also it was such a unique... I mean, he came from a place that wasn't like he came from this family or gym that was known for iconic. There's guys, so right now, one of the best fighters in the world, I'd argue, probably best, Islam Makachev. He was trained by Habib's father. He was in Habib's gym, best friends with Habib. We've been hearing about him forever. McGregor came onto the scene, no one knew who the fucking was.

36:57He was fighting Ireland, never had anything from an MMA perspective. They had some great boxers throughout the years, but MMA made the fuck up. And also he had this innate ability to turn people's lights off in a way that not a lot of people have. It's a gift, but it's not like he was an athletic freak, dude. Now he was up here. He had it. That was his... And you know what? Have you ever, because like, by the way, I was really humbled. You were telling me before camera, like, you've listened to this show for a long time. That's always wild to me when that's the case. But have you ever heard me talk about the IMU theory that Charlie Rocket came up with? Possibly. Continuon. Yeah, so sorry to people who have had this before, but I ended up having Charlie in here. He's a friend now, awesome fucking dude, for episode 352, one of my favorite podcasts of all time. But Charlie had this theory called the IMU theory that he came up with about seven years ago. And it was at the beginning of 2019 and 2018. And I remember seeing it.

37:58And I remember just being like, oh my God. Oh my God, this guy just figured out life. Like I never have that reaction to something, but it made sense. And basically he sat down one day and he was just curious. If you know Charlie at all, he is exactly what you see on camera. He is genuinely the most curious. Like I want to wonder about that question right there. Let's find out. Yeah, kind of guy. And he goes, I wonder who the highest grossing by revenue superhero of all time is. That's comics, movies, TV, everything in between. And he's thinking it's going to be Batman or Superman or something like that. And to his surprise, it was Spider-Man. And it's like, that's interesting. Spider-Man is the one whose face you can't see. He's not particularly good looking. Doesn't have a chisel chin came from like a lower middle class background, parents were dead, wanted the girl, couldn't get the girl. Had a weird talent, wasn't flying through the air. He was a fucking spider. That's interesting. He was relatable though. Okay. What is the biggest religion by following in the world?

39:02All right, Christianity. All right, who's the hero Christianity? Jesus Christ. This was a carpenter. He didn't wear, you know, in a time where you could have worn gold-plated armor and come in on a white horse, you know, as the God King, if you will. And everyone would have bowed down to you. He didn't do that. He wore regular clothes. As I said, was a carpenter, a basic, you know, working man's kind of job. You can say that I'm a homie as well. For sure. Yeah. This just happened to be the one with the... I know, I know, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like very similar. Like it's just like, and the, and the, and the Muhammad was the guy that fought in battles. Like it was like, with everybody, yeah. That's right. And he went around and instead of having, you know, all these fucking armies following him, he had 12 friends. And then sometimes you would give a sermon. And, you know, he was just kind of, he hung out with poor people. He was like the average person. So he goes, all right. If this can work with a corporation, we're really on to something. He goes, what is the most famous corporation of all time?

40:04And he goes, holy shit, it's Apple. Everyone's got this in their hands. Who founded Apple? Steve Jobs. The first corporate guy to say, fuck this suit. He looked like your dad. In a time where people were coming up with technology and naming things in Spyron 6000 or Xenics 4,500, he named his products Lisa. iPod. iPhone. He named the products after you. And he goes, holy shit, this whole time where we're living in this culture, where Instagram comes up, social media comes up, and the paradigm becomes, oh my God, I'm not like you, I'm not like you, I'm not like you, I'm better than you, I'm above you, I'm clavicular, I'm ascending or whatever. The people that we actually most relate to, forget all the clicks, forget all the things where people run short-term. The people we relate to over the long time are the people that are just like us. So what about sports? And he goes, all right, LeBron James is amazing. And at the time, Kobe was alive and he's like, Kobe's amazing and they're beloved. No doubt about it. And think about Kobe before he died where like, it's an extra-level legend after he dies.

41:04But he's like, the athlete that is unlike that has transcended everyone as Michael Jordan. And yes, Michael Jordan now is a reclusive billionaire, but think about when Michael Jordan was coming up through his career and his rise. He was cut from his high school basketball team. He was the scrawny kid that wouldn't get a shot. Then he gets to UNC, wins a title, does all these amazing things, grows into his body, and they say, bitch, we're still gonna draft Sam Buie above you. Comes into the NBA, they ignore him, ignore him, ignore him over and over again, and then he can't get over the top, finally gets over the top in year seven, wins a title, wins Therina Row, loses his dad tragically, throws his life away, goes and plays baseball, makes an idiot of himself in front of the world to some people, because he wasn't as good at it, as best at basketball, comes back, wins all these titles and everything, had the song, because I'm like you, he's like me, and you know what, I wanna be like Mike. Like he had that thing, that passion, he's like, everything sports, religion, corporations, fucking superheroes, people over time

42:06are gonna go to the people that they most relate to, and that's why when you're marketing to people, and you shouldn't even think about it from like a marketing perspective, but you're saying it in general, speak to people like you are just like them, not like you are above them. And I think we have gotten to a point where we have sold society a lie, that for some reason we have to be better than people or this different thing, and it ends up creating all those tentacles we talked about earlier, where you can come around and headsets, and you feel more important, and it's like the thing that makes things special and the fact that something like this starts with a backwards hat in your parents house, and you gotta keep that energy. And I mean, even like go off of that, I mean, kinda how Trump won is that, yeah. 100%. And even though, but that's the craziest part about him, is he was born with the Golden Spoon, near girls, say all of that, but he was, he's somehow related to that, because he talked like them. What do you do? He put on the hard hat, and he walked into West Virginia, and said, I fuck with you. You fuck with you all, you guys got fucked. And I think that's something that a lot of the politicians

43:10need to think about in ways that obviously Trump has taken multiple wrong steps, but how do you do it a little bit like him, and do it the right way? Like, yes. Because even though you think of it, and I would even say Obama did it too, Obama had the, oh, I would love to have a beer with him. I may disagree with him politically, but he's a guy that I could have a conversation with. You don't have that with. This episode is brought to you by Chat GPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about Chat GPT work? It's the new way to use Chat GPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give Chat GPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents, like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode, available on plus and pro plants. Your favorite friend group is back. FX's adults follows five roommates living in New York, leaning on each other to navigate love, work,

44:11friendship, and family, while tackling pressing questions of your 20s like, what if the person who inherited your fake ID is cooler than you ever were? Why does being around your family make you regress into your worst self? And how do you tell your roommates that you have other friends? FX's adults. All episodes now streaming on Hulu. Tim Walls, you don't have that with Kamala. You don't have that with, you didn't have that with Mitt Romney. You didn't have that. George Bush, a little bit too. Even George Bush seems like a guy that even though I don't know if I would have a beer with him, but he did have that like, and fuck it. And now watch this drive. Like, where the app, so, but the relatability, and I was gonna say, what is everyone's favorite NBA story of the 21st century? NBA story? NBA. I'm gonna say, you're gonna be like, yeah, what was the one that transcended the NBA more than anything else? Of the 21st century?

45:1121st century? Like recently? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it happened, yeah. I would even say it was past 15 years. It's gonna hit you. What is the best story of the Warriors? No, Jeremy Lynn. It was short-lived, but yeah. No, that is, it was short-lived. Yes, I would say, but even like Steph Curry is more like you and I than, LeBron James. I remember, yes, the Jeremy Lynn, but you are right. I see exactly what you're saying. That is, that's who Connor, we started this tangent though, that's who Connor was. Connor was the son of working class Irish people who then had to work as a plumber for 18 hours a day and commute an hour to work over these bumbling hills who had nothing and would train with every amount of energy he had left at night and he had the girl who stood by him and fucking when he had nothing would sleep on the floor with him and built himself up and came out of nowhere and he was that dude and then it's like when he crossed that Mayweather Rubicon, suddenly he became, I'm not like you, I'm this thing.

46:15And he lost the whole magic of what put him there in the first place and that is a lesson. One of my favorite sports moments in several is, he took over like the MMA world and Jose Aldo was this unstoppable force. No one thought anyone could beat him. He knocked him out in 15 seconds with what he predicted. I always left hand, it twitched. It like you can't, unreal. You can't and I talk about it, it gives you chills. I remember where I was when I watched it and it's just like, holy shit, he did it. And it doesn't, it wasn't even like, there's always been great moments where there's been upsets and all that. It wasn't really even an upset because they were very well matched. No one thought they could beat, he could beat Jose Aldo but people did to an extent. No one found anyone beat Aldo and he knocked him out in 15 seconds and he was bigger than life and then it just lost him. Yeah, no, it's sad. It's, you have to, but that's gotta be hard

47:15when you own a Maybach, a Maybach yacht where you want to, you own a, how do you relate with the regular person? I like my Honda, I like my flip flops. Yeah. But maybe that's the key. Maybe that's the key. Maybe that's the key. That's the key, man. And don't lose it. And also like a lot of these people that end up a little bit more than that don't get me wrong. Everyone wants the elevate but a lot of people, there's a lot of people that don't make them happy. And also you see their kids too. That's right. I went to boarding school. You went to boarding, where'd you go? Kent school. Where's that? Kent Connecticut. It's probably 15, 20 minutes outside Pekipsi. So it's up on like near the Hudson, right on the border of upstate New Yorkie and Connecticut. I just saw a lot of people, parents where they had everything. Now don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly lucky but it was a different level. Right. And there's a lot of people that have

48:17every advantage in the world can never get it together to this day. There was people that like, before I went to boarding school, I went to another school very similar, not as privileged but privileged people. And they were 98% of people also graduated college. I went to a school with like, it's more prestige, more money, more everything. A lot of people never got through college. There's a lot of people like it. And it's just because it goes back to like what I said, like my parents are my, yeah, it's like if I, like that's why I was like, and that's kind of when I was talking about early wearers, we were discussing the videos and TikTok and all of that. It's like I kind of just got lucky. But, and that's the same thing with my parents. And it happens and you kind of see these people that go to get kind of lost in the sauce literally and figuratively. And like they kind of just lose it. Yes. But there are people that can do both. And there's a lot of people that don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't want, by the way, I don't want to vilify how people make decisions and stuff like that.

49:19What I am vilifying is the people who do it strictly to be able to say they do it, to hold something over other people. The people I always identified with the most of the people that I would meet have a three hour conversation with them about life, not know what they did and later find out they were like that. And have, and you know, they didn't walk in, roll like this and chain, I fucking love that. Well, that Kira Kow story, without what he was talking with Elon Musk, he didn't even realize it. It kind of, but now Elon's the only thing we get to discuss about Elon forever. But I mean, Elon at his core is obsessed with the idea of space and kind of technology and he'll die with that. That's right. So that's why I kind of think like maybe Clivicular can work it out because there is that Elon, that like, but it's looks maxing, it's a little bit different. But I think that's very, very, almost a clivicular. Oh, they're gonna love that in the comments. Yeah. But deep sleep, yeah, I would do it too. Nah, you, but it's just like, but that's what I've taken.

50:20But you know what, that's what popped into my head. Now, that's probably why sometimes like it's, sometimes I'll say stuff and I'll do these videos and like it's kind of silly in theory, clivicular to Elon Musk, but it is kind of like that conversation. That's my goal. So like you're having the conversation and like if the video is good enough and you're explaining something or talking about something, but the ones that work the best are where they, where and that's why, and that's why some of them work and some of them don't. But no, it's a, yeah, and I even think about it. And I think it's like, if you had all this more money, what would really change? Life would get a little bit easier, quote unquote, but like the best thing that you could probably do is like it would be sick if you had a house, a private chef, a nice gym at home, and then the ability to be able to travel or go anywhere you want, whenever. Now that's insane amount of money, but, but if I had to say it that, but after that I'd be like, like I don't know, like I really knew,

51:21like how many places the like houses can you own? I guess, I don't under, you know, do you really need one in California, Texas, New York? No. And then on Long Island and then in Florida, I do, I don't, I don't know, but maybe you have so much money, you have to park that money somewhere. Maybe, but like my whole thing is, there's things that I over time, I would have said at some point, like oh, I regret being there instead of no one I should have been here or whatever. And then I realize and get the grace of like, whoa, look what I was able to learn because I went into the wrong thing, right? Like I came out of college and I'm like, oh, I gotta get a job and I gotta fucking job on Wall Street. I was not a fit for me at all. Love the people I work with, didn't like the work. But it taught me so much about life because I was helping manage the money for like the ultra, the people that had, I would make one bullshit trade and it would be more money than I have ever seen in my life like at any point ever.

52:22And I got to learn, I don't wanna make it all sound like it was bad examples. I saw good examples too. Of people who had a lot of money and you'd never knew it, know it and they were happiest could be their family was happy as could be the next generations were doing their own things and had purpose. And then I would see the opposite examples of the quote unquote, Mo money, Mo problems, invented problems. Where those kids you talk about at boarding so I saw a lot of those and I felt bad for them because they were dead. They were dead from the time they were born because mommy and daddy wanted to make sure they had all the money and they never had to do anything. They never had to work and they lived these purposeless lies where they could pay for anything but they were never happy and they were never gonna be. And like it made me realize cause like I got big dreams. I started this day one. I wanna be the best to ever do it. Anything less as a failure. Well guess what, even if I'm not great at making money, I know a lot of money comes with that. I need to find a woman that is cool with not owning a fucking 12 room mansion. I need to find, be able to build a family

53:22to where like my kids, they do their own fucking thing. I don't wanna trust funds or bullshit like that. I've never understood the generation. You may want trust funds. I've dude, I've never understood the generational wealth thing. I've never understood it. I have, now I don't have a trust fund but I think if you can help your kid buy a house and not have to think about it, it can be huge but zero to 18 is one the biggest like it's not, cause when you think about trust fund cause you think about the uppity, but it's like if you have your kids, why wouldn't you give them the ability to not have to worry about rent? Now it can cause more bullshit and maybe you learn lessons along the way but also the other option is usually it's like giving the money the fucking government. So it's like maybe you could put it at other places but if you have this money, you have three kids, you trust them, you spent your time raising them

54:23to make sure that yes, they have nice things but this isn't like they're not bullshit rich kid stereotype. They have, like why wouldn't you? Now maybe it's required, hey you have to have a job. You have to do this, you have to do that. I'm gonna, this is your apartment now but like I don't wanna hear about you spending all your money on like going out every week or like, oh you walking. I'll tell you why, cause I think you have to have drive and I don't think that you can coerce drive. I think it has to be something that comes from within that has the environment to build itself and to being able to happen in the first place and here's what I mean by that. I would totally let my kids after college live in the house so they don't have to pay rent and stuff like that which I think is a huge advantage. By the way, that is the only reason this podcast exists. Exactly, my parents, like I went and lived on my own for five years, had all these rent bills and shit and then the pandemic happened and my dad let me move back in and I built a studio there. I could never have afforded a fucking rent on a studio to build this show for you.

55:24I would totally let my kids do stuff like that but the whole concept of like paying for your kids' lifestyles and things like that, there needs to be, I don't know, maybe my opinion would adjust on this but it never has to this point. There needs to be some level of like actually creating something yourself, having drive, going out there and getting it without having the backstop of like mommy and daddy will pay that bill for me. You know what I mean? Like there's, dude, I've never carried debt in my life. I remember 2022, I literally had zero dollars and my computer snapped. It was a whole thing and I was like, oh my God, and this is when I was making crazy shorts and it was like reliant on growing the show. And I had to go to someone really close to me and very sheepishly say, you know, you could spot me a few thousand dollars to get this laptop, they're like Julian, are you fucking, of course. Yeah, you don't even have to pay,

56:25but I paid that shit back in 28 days. Like I don't want to owe anyone anything. Of course. You know, and there's just something about that and not and gamifying it so that you don't know that you have that or something that's so special. Yeah, I think you, like I completely get your point of view. I guess I'm just trying to think now, I mean, like I pay right. I don't, it's not like my parents gave me an apartment that I live in. But I think to myself, if like you had that ability, wouldn't you do it for your kid? But I'm not a father. So I don't know. And neither. And I think you, but like, and that is right, how do you make sure that he does in or she doesn't lose that drive? And maybe I have the drive because it's like, I have to pay rent at the end of the month. And I've been very lucky and I've made it far enough where like I'm not thinking about rent at the end of the month. But you are theoretically.

57:25It's like, no, I have a job. I have to do this that the other. But I think giving the kid the advantage and knowing that you raise them right for the first 18 years, they're going to take advantage of it. But I also hear your point of view. It's a tough question that I'm going to have to actually answer and really live through and understand when I am a parent. And that is the thing. We are talking about a hypothetical here. I have some strong opinions on that because I've seen both sides of it to where like I see other kids where it goes really bad or the parents do it right and it goes really well. And the ones where I see it go really well are where the parents are like, oh, you're on your own. And you know, that doesn't when those kids have the advantage of growing up and they have things that other kids aren't blessed to have roof over their head. Food always there. Clothes on their back, no questions asked. They don't have to go get a job when they're 11 or something like that. You know what I mean? You see that? And that's something I remind myself, but like even that is like you're in top 2%-3% of the world. Absolutely. And that's enough.

58:26And that is an necessity. That's like almost like it feels like that's required in America. And I think that should be. But the privilege that exists in America, even and that's easy for me to say. But I just mean just in general. Like we are, like you don't, and that's why I try to expose myself to washing things and hearing stories. We don't understand if you've never been there and you, like I mean, probably Kierke Kow knows a lot more. It's like, there's tens of millions of people that are born, are hundreds of millions of people, billions that are born into a life they won't make you know, $10,000 in their life, American dollars. Yep. But we like, that's why, and that's not to say you shouldn't ask for more of the society that you live in. But it is crazy that I mean, that's another thing. It's like, yeah, your zip code that you're born in is so important. Yes. And it's very, and that's one other thing I locked out on. That's why I'll always say, yeah, privilege. But I don't know what I would do.

59:28It's a, and maybe along the way, you kind of answer those questions. And you get to, because you answer questions right now with people that you trust, those people will have kids. They'll go through things. That's right. I also think there's very important things along the way. If you know it's not that ability to make sure that you have to make ends meet to get food on the table, maybe it's like you're gamifying it. And that's why I think sports are so important. Even if you're not that good, like my kid's probably not gonna be fucking very good at anything. Like in terms of like, he'll high school. But like it's very important to get involved with it. Yeah. And also I think the camaraderie of it, the teammates, the, no, that's, that's a huge thing. Because you get to know, especially as a guy, I'm sure it's important for girls too, but as a guy, if you never were part of a team, you're fucked. I agree. Even if you weren't even that good. But like if you were, and like you kind of get a camaraderie with like, oh, this sucks, but it's very important.

1:00:30And so that's what, but again, I don't know. But we're gonna find out. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna find out, but. You and I have this conversation 20 years, not 20 years. 20 years thinking, pal. But then I mean, like I think about it's like, and my parents are in from Brooklyn, and they elevated themselves in ways that, their, their brothers and sisters did as well. But I grew up in a way that was very privileged. And I feel like they made sure to make that I was not somebody that thought, I'm not here sitting here with the quote unquote success on social, saying to myself, oh, I deserve that. I like, I'm someone that's thinking about, oh, like what, what could go wrong? And I think they did it in a really good way. So they probably, and I'm sure you could do that. And that's something that happens throughout their younger years. And if you can help them in their years

1:01:31when they're out of college, especially in this weird economy that we're living in, it's only going to get worse. It may be valuable, but it may not. Yeah. And I guess that's probably the question that you ask as yourself, the parent, as a parent, every single day when you have decisions. Should they, and it's like, should you be very strict about who they hang out with or not? Is it valuable to have them fall on their face? And it's like, oh, is it valuable for them to be in the wrong group? And then that group takes advantage of them, and then you're like, hey, this is what happens. Or do you try to, yeah, I don't know. It's, yeah, I mean, look, like I said, I have like these ideas that are stolen from ideas of seeing things that worked or didn't work in the past that I feel strongly about, but I'll know when I'm in the position. Yeah, hopefully I make the right calls. You know what I mean? But it's the hardest job in the world, but it's probably some important job to and it's something I really look forward to doing. But you also, the number one thing is you have to find the right woman. Yeah, holy shit.

1:02:32Do you gotta find the right woman? Because you guys aren't gonna agree on everything. That's not life. Like you're gonna have disagreements, but you have to have a similar, at least philosophy on life and North Star in a way. Oh, oh. And it sounds like your parents had that. My parents, I was lucky they certainly have that. And like I think that's a huge advantage in and of itself when you have parents who like get it. And you know, again, no one's perfect, but like they get all the important stuff, right? Like that's like being halfway down the third baseline in life. Yeah. Thank you guys for checking out this clip. If you haven't already subscribed, please subscribe and hit the like button on this video. It is a huge, huge help. And if you'd like to check out this clip, full podcast episode, that link is in the description below or right here. And finally, you can follow me on Instagram and X by using the links in my description below. This episode is brought to you by Chat GPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about Chat GPT work? It's the new way to use Chat GPT

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