Podcasting 2.0 - Episode 255: Snark Week

Podcasting 2.0 from March 27th, 2026 episode 255, Snark Week!

Hello everybody, once again it is Friday, it is a overcast day here in the Texas Hill Country.

But it's bright and shining in your podcast app because it's signed for Podcasting 2.0.

Yes, the official board meeting of the group.

We are in fact the only boardroom that doesn't pay salaries or dividends.

I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama.

The man who worked for 20 hours on Podping only to get snarked at.

Say hello to my friend on the other end.

The one, the only Mr. Dave Jones!

Ooh, I'm snorked.

You know, I've been snorked.

It's been one of those weeks for me.

For me too, yes.

For a lot of personal reasons having to do with people I interact with at work and stuff.

It's just been snark week.

It's like shark week but not entertaining.

We already have a title right off the bat snark week.

But there's something, I think it has something to do with podcast themselves.

I do a lot of podcasts and I've noticed over the past couple of months, maybe six months to a year,

but increasingly so in the past few months that people who interact with me,

and I'm pretty reachable email ex.

That would really be it email and ex.

I don't look at much else.

But people think they can say the most obnoxious, annoying, sometimes hateful and mean things.

And it has increased and it has something to do with podcasting, I think, in particular.

I think it's that people really want to be a part of the podcast or they feel that they're so connected to the podcast

and that when they're talking to you, they're on the podcast.

Seriously, I mean, and this has been a difficult couple of weeks for me.

Like very difficult with Dvorak being out and trying to keep the ship afloat with Mimi.

It's not easy.

You got someone who's never done it before.

John's back, he's clearly not 100%.

I mean, it's obvious to me, not to everybody, but I can tell.

So I feel this is like more energy for me is going into it.

But then the things people will say, just rude and mean things.

And where do you think you, I mean, who gave you permission to be like that?

I'm not sure what exactly.

I'll give you an example.

See one one Brooklyn just has something shitty on the mastodon.

I'm like, hey, you're going to check about, hey, I'm going to be my podcasting.

This is the voice I hear on my head when I read it, you see.

And I'm like, who are you?

Who are you?

You're on the mastodon I pay for.

Listening on the live stream I pay for.

With a project that Dave has poured his entire life into.

Who are you?

Without this podcast, without this podcast, without the board meeting.

Would it be as successful?

Would everyone just jacking off on a GitHub?

Probably not.

There's another show title jacking off on the GitHub.

I was about to say that.

They're rolling, they're just falling out.

They're just falling out.

This is what a little bit of aggravation will do.

It's a show title of engines.

And it's just, I really try to have patience and self-control.

And it's hard.

It's been very, very hard.

I'm losing my shit over stuff.

And of course, people, if I'm trying not to comment, if I comment,

they're just like, oh, yeah, I got them now.

But the same people show up in my life all over the place.

And probably the worst is like, I consider podcasts indexed out.

Social to be kind of a safe place for us.

X, you know, whatever.

But it's the boardroom and the troll room.

I know it's called the troll room.

People just, they say things.

And I mean, I pay attention.

I've trained myself over years to have this third eye peripheral vision

to be looking at what's going on.

I think it makes the podcast really exciting and interactive.

But all kinds of people, even people who are friends will just say shit.

I'm like, what, don't do that.

Do you realize I'm reading it?

And in real time, I think they do.

But it's just like, it's your own podcast.

It makes me not want to even look at the boardroom or the troll room or anything.

It's something has changed.

And I'm going to blow my shofar for these people.

If I can get it to work.

Yeah.

This sounds more like a voodoo set.

This is not it.

I can get it home. It takes a second.

It's like a trumpet.

I can't do it with headphones.

I can't do with headphones.

Hold on, we take the headphones off.

There's something about that.

Almost the headphones didn't matter.

Close enough.

You're not going to be able to finish the show.

You're going to be so, like, Tina's like, that was bad.

I can't blow it with my headphones on for some reason.

It's very hard to blow with the headphones.

The face is probably purple right now from this.

That's about how I feel, actually, the way that sound.

It's like a, it's like a bird.

It's like a kid's birthday party with a balloon just flies.

It's not an inspired.

If you were, if you were hoping to inspire people and call them to the mountain.

It's not going to happen.

We're still in the desert.

We're not at the mountain.

It made me feel better.

That does count for something.

Yeah, it does.

No, I think it's more than just podcasting.

I think there's a general...

I don't know fatigue and frustration with lots of things going on in the world.

I know lots of people checking out from, like, news and stuff in general.

Sure.

Oh, absolutely.

It's like, it can't tolerate that sort of thing right now for some reason.

I don't really know, but I feel like there is a vibe

that is going through just society in general.

There's always these like lulls that happen too.

Well, James and Sam were talking about on power.

They were talking about how there's some big changes coming for Spotify.

They're not exactly sure what they are yet or anything like that.

I didn't listen today, so I missed it.

Any word?

Do you have any idea?

Well, James was saying that he thinks some stuff is going to happen with their video.

Product and that kind of thing, video podcasting product.

Of course, it would probably have to.

They laid off people and then it was an epic game.

Also laid off a thousand employees out of 3,000.

I think the economy is pretty...

We know it's sort of rotten from underneath and that's been taking its toll on a lot of tech.

Tech in general is protected from economic downturns for many, many, many years for decades.

But it's kind of caught up at this point.

I don't know.

I just think there's a general malaise that's happening.

Yeah, that could be it.

It's definitely spinning up, spinning out and has people on edge.

Yeah, it has me on edge too.

I mean, I've been unable to sleep beyond like 430 every single night for the weeks.

For weeks.

Exactly.

It is rich.

I can't believe you said that because suddenly the same thing is happening to me.

I've always been a six o'clock, 630 guy.

Yeah, me too, 630.

We're 630 guys, ladies.

It's the 630 club.

And then suddenly about two or three weeks ago, I cannot sleep past about 530 at the most.

It's usually 430 or 5.

And I don't know why.

Yeah.

And it's not like I'm tired when I wake up.

Like I'm not tired.

I'm okay.

But then, and even, you know, we go to bed 10 o'clock and I'm not, I'm not really...

Yeah, I'm not like, oh boy, what a lot.

I mean, it's show day sometimes along, but I like what a long day.

Hmm.

Okay.

Well, that's interesting.

So there's definitely something in the air.

Well, you know my theory.

So my theory with vibe coding is that it has the same dopamine dynamics as video games.

And in the past, I haven't been much of a gamer really at all for many, many years.

But I was when I was young.

And what I remember from my teens and, you know, in 20s was that when you had...

When you get super involved in a game, in a video game, like something that's pretty intense.

And this can happen with TV shows too.

But video games, I noticed it more.

What you end up, sometimes you end up having dreaming about the game.

Especially if you play the game right up to the point when you go to sleep.

But it also can happen just because you're, I think it's because your brain is so focused on this one thing

that those patterns just begin to play over and over and over in your mind.

And then you'll go to sleep and you'll dream about this.

And it will definitely affect your sleep.

And I think it...

And so I turned a buddy of mine onto...

We talk...

He's a tech guy and I thought I was telling him to give Cloud Code a shot.

And so I got him into the Cloud Code vibe coding world.

And so then he's...

He put messages in me not too long ago.

He's like, man, this thing is awesome.

I'm already knocking out stuff.

I'm creating apps and doing all this kind of stuff.

And he was like in your...

And this guy's a heavy gamer, daily video game user.

And he was like...

He was like, I'm on day five of hammering out apps with Cloud Code.

And I haven't played a video game in five days.

Okay, I think you're on to something here.

And as an aside, thank you for helping me understand the difference between using.

And yes, a little bit of AI chat, just a little bit.

But I've been building podcast applications.

So maybe I can sweep by with that.

I was using Open Code.

I hit my Zen, Big Pickle, Limit.

And so, okay, I'll try a Claude Sonnet 4.5, 6, whatever it is.

Well, that ate like $100 in two hours.

Like a pack of eggs.

Just ate it up.

And then you said, no, no, no, you've got to use Claude Code.

Or use the CLI.

So I didn't realize that you...

And I haven't really...

I mean, I've been just been using for today.

Using Claude Code.

I don't know if it's exactly the same as Open Code.

But you can certainly go into a directory and say, fix this and it's been fixing things.

And so that apparently will cost less if you get the Mac subscription.

That's what I'm led to believe.

Yes.

Okay.

It's...

Yeah, you just have a limit, but I can promise you you'll never hit it.

Okay.

That's a big promise because I am that guy you just described.

I am that guy.

And the first thing I built, there's been two things in my podcasting life that have been an issue.

One is, and if you're doing value for value, I don't know how people do it.

But if you have a spreadsheet, spreadsheet applications are the worst for a smooth donation

read because it's all...

You know, because you have notes and you got different things and then it'll snap and then

it...

And you can say word wrap, all you want, it never does it right.

So it's very difficult to just have a smooth scroll.

On the spreadsheet, do you know what I mean?

Yeah, totally.

So it's not snapping to cells.

So I vibe coded a donation spreadsheet reader, which really, really is amazing because

I run it through my local model here through the note to extract the jingle requests

because people are always requesting all these wacky jingles and I'm always searching around for them

and it takes me 25 minutes before the show just to find them and put them in a folder

and have them ready and you know, you're reading and you're searching for the jingles

and setting them up at the same time.

So now it scans the note and it does it on my local Raspberry Pi setup.

It extracts the jingle requests, pretty good at that.

And then I build a little server into my playout system, the Currycaster, available on the GitHub.

And so it searches for the jingle and it sets it up.

And all you have to do is hit the cell on the spreadsheet and it lines up the jingles.

It's nice, dude.

Perfect.

Dude, this is like, this is what I'm talking about.

This is functional for me.

And then I also, I've been working on an outliner.

Stand alone outliner because browser stuff just has its drawbacks in my life.

It has a lot of drawbacks.

And man, you want to talk about recursion issues.

Try and include note.

Oh man, it includes note rendering HTML.

We've got recursion.

Yeah, you're coding opml like it's in 1999.

Anyway, but it's interesting because open code could not figure it out with big pickle, with a GPT-5, you know, Codex-5-2, or with Claude Sonnet.

But then I fire up Claude code, boom, fixes everything within 10 minutes.

They just have some sort of magic that nobody else has figured out yet, and I don't know what it is.

Now, can Claude code also do stuff like SSH into a different server and do stuff?

Or do you have to kind of set it up on that server individually?

No, it's fully agentic.

You just have to give it those permissions.

Oh, okay.

I just feel like we're paying a price that we don't understand yet.

Oh, yeah.

No kidding.

You know what I mean?

These things are making truly...

They're enabling us to do truly important things that we would not have been able to do before.

But there is a cost.

It's sort of like what's the old alchemy thing?

It's like whatever you can create gold out of lead, but you have to pay this cost.

There's a cost that has to be paid.

And I feel like we're paying the cost collectively.

There's a mental health cost that I do not understand fully yet, and I will admit that all day long.

This is where I was going.

You're absolutely right.

I think it's a part of it because I wake up and I always...

The first thing I always do...

Good morning, Holy Spirit, Lord's Prayer.

If I don't get it right, I do it again.

Then I get up, and then in my head is...

How about that, OPML project?

I wonder if I could approach it this way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, you're right.

I think it's tapping into the nervous system.

It's doing something that's not good.

And it doesn't mean that there's anything inherently bad

or that we have to stop using the tools or anything like that necessarily.

It's just that we don't...

This is new.

This is all very new, and we just don't understand how to deal with this stuff yet.

But you have to go through these growing pains in order to learn how to have a healthy relationship

with things that are new this way.

How is this different from just regular coding?

Well, because it's gamified, I think that's really the issue.

Because you feel...

The speed at which you're able to do things makes...

We'll see.

Okay.

I'm trying to figure out what it's...

That's the issue with video games.

And why they become very addictive is because they allow you to short-circuit

the normal payment cost.

The normal cost is your time and your mental attention.

They allow you to sort of circumvent that and go in the back door.

And so it makes the effort reward cycle very, very short.

And it makes it very fast.

So you just like bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

And then when it slows down, it's sort of like listening to podcast into X.

When you slow the pace down and you're not doing it anymore,

your mind's like, wait, wait, wait, no.

But keep going, keep going, keep going.

You can't...

Why are you stopping?

Yeah.

I need this.

I need you to keep doing this.

But because it's a...

Because it's sort of like a vague goal.

The goal is just produce features.

It's not like this one particular thing.

Then I feel like you just have this sort of vague anxiety.

And you don't really know what it is.

I don't even know if it's that vague.

It's pretty real, man.

It's pretty real.

Like I had this...

You can bring...

Yeah, yeah, let's bring it.

Yeah, this is a good idea because I'm sure he has some contributions.

Welcome to the board meeting here at the big table, the one and only Nathan G.

As we know, Nathan got's right.

Hello, hello.

Hello, hello.

What's up, brother?

Are you still not working for Spotify?

I'm still not working for Spotify.

We're over with a link tree these days.

The only guy I know who sells something gets paid, gets it back, and then gets the name back,

and then somehow I didn't have to give the money back.

It's always nice when it works out like that, huh?

That is fabulous.

I mean, I'm in awe of what you've done here.

Do you have good lawyers or is it just Spotify's stupid?

I think they just realized it wasn't really, I think they needed...

When they acquired pod sites and they acquired Chartable, they essentially got two different versions of the same thing.

Yeah.

And didn't really need the one that was not as deeply hooked into Chartable's system.

So mine could very easily be cut loose, and I had friends on the inside who were maybe felt bad that I got laid off

and were willing to put in the time and energy to convince their lawyers that it would be a gesture of good will

to the open podcasting ecosystem to have this beat out in the public again.

And they wanted that headline out there.

And I was just the lucky recipient of all those circumstances.

Well, amen to that, man.

That's fantastic.

I'm real happy for you.

I love pod.link.

I use it for everything.

For all my podcasts.

Yeah, people love it.

They love it.

You know, if I don't...

I forgot, well, it's something...

Maybe it was like a couple of months ago, it wasn't working.

I was like, I'll just do my regular link and right away I get...

Hey, man!

Where's the pod.link?

This is no good.

I've got...

See, you wrote this article and you wrote this blog post, I guess you released it this morning, I think.

But I don't want to talk about that yet.

I want to talk about...

Because something else kind of jumped in the way of that discussion.

And I've got other things throughout the whole room.

I'm afraid we're not even going to talk about the whole reason I asked you into the boardroom today.

But we'll try to get there.

But Dustin Blocke from the Castro app developer.

He responded to...

You made this post and you were talking about the...

Open discovery for podcasts for RSS and that kind of thing.

So Dustin jumped in and he said...

This is not really necessarily about him.

It's just about what he said.

He said...

Podcast apps have spent far too much time optimizing for open web standards and far too little time on features that users actually care about.

That phrase at the end there...

Just the snippet that features that users actually care about.

It kind of jumped out at me because we've heard that for a very long time.

That phrase comes up a lot when it's things like the podcast person tag or podcast schedule link tag.

There's a lot of times that we do something in the namespace or 2.0 where we hear that phrase.

I mean, I don't really want to lock in on any particular wording that he used there because I think if he was here with us having this discussion,

then I think he may like phrase it different and that kind of thing.

So I don't want to get hung up on that.

We had a topic that we discussed heavily internally with Godcaster over the past week and it was similar nature.

On the one hand, you have customers telling you they want a thing.

And then on the other hand, you have this vision for what the product is or could be that you that conflicts with that, at least in your mind.

And this is a long-standing debate.

You have this Steve Jobs idea that users don't know what they actually want and you have to figure it out and design it and give it to them.

And then they see it fully formed and like, oh, I would.

I never even knew I wanted that. It's beautiful.

But now I can't live without it.

You have that on one side, you know.

And then you have on the other side, this idea of like building your product based on market research and customer feedback

and these things that you're building what the customer tells you they want.

And it was kind of like this juxtaposition of those two ideas that got me thinking about this.

And like, I've got some ideas that I want to know like, whoa, what are what's your initial thoughts on that whole idea as related to like what what Dustin was talking about?

For sure. I absolutely am like in complete agreement with Dustin honestly that yes, they should prioritize what users want or what users need or what's good for users.

You know, find the right phrasing, whatever, whatever you think works there, but it really comes down to a strong like ownership of the vision of your product.

Podlink has always faced people who said like, yeah, I'd really love podlink.

But can you like just show Apple spotify and Google and then swap swap out Google for YouTube when that deprecated.

And I'm like, no, that's not my vision for this product. A, I use pocket cast most of the time.

And the whole reason I made pod think was because I wanted, you know, the eighth place podcast app to be included as something that every major podcaster linked out to right.

And so I've always sort of had a strong vision and at first part of that was that I limited the list to basically only people who were in the top 1% of all podcast apps, which was.

You know, less than a dozen. And when I did the like episodes dot FM relaunch and then was able to, you know, rebrand that back into pod link expanded that to every single link that I could support.

That was an expansion of that vision to say, no, I think actually listeners are willing to, you know, not be overwhelmed by a list and pick something and set a cookie in a default so that they don't have to browse the list every time things like that.

Here's a question. Yeah, if every single one of your customers was paying if they were paying for your product.

Would that change how you listen to them?

Definitely. I think there's, but I would, you know, find a way to make sure that I'm like still achieving the mission that I wanted to accomplish, which was to make an open, you know, listing that anybody could use.

It doesn't mean that if somebody's paying me that I couldn't also give them, you know, additional bespoke URLs, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that's the URL anybody who visits the homepage, you know, would see.

So I find ways to make my customers happy.

I've, you know, explored like, okay, can customers make a custom sort order of this list can they hide certain links.

I've thought about it, but I don't think, you know, I think that was one of the advantages that Charitable had over me is that basically all their links were private links.

So every single podcaster could make a bespoke list of apps they wanted for any given marketing campaign and set out a link to their smart links product.

But pod link, you know, it was open first, but that also, you know, came with the benefits that any listener could share a pod link to their favorite show and not wait for the podcaster to set it up first.

Anyway, and so then it could grow just by the virtuous cycle of listeners sharing it with other listeners podcasters seeing that podcasters using it to promote their own show other podcasters seeing that and the cycle repeats, right.

And so I never wanted to lose that and I like recognize if I allowed podcasters to hide the apps that they didn't care for off the list, that would be breaking that core growth mechanic for my product.

So I'm like, all right, I can find a way to, you know, satiate, you know, your, your, my paying customers with something, but it doesn't necessarily mean that I have to break the other things I believe in.

Do you think that would you would it be fair to say that you think open was an open standards and sort of hearing to that open mindset was a negative for you as far as growth and your business and stuff like that.

No, is that going too far?

No, I think that's going too far. Like I think I really only ever sold pod link as you know for the paying customers.

They basically got a vanity URL and they got the tiny little 120 pixel by 60 pixel banner ad off the sidebar they never really got more than that.

And it was cheap enough that they couldn't really complain that they, you know, weren't getting a ton more features for that price.

So I was never under that much pressure.

And then we made it free and we gave those features away and added even more.

And you know, I'd like to add a paid tier back to pod link at some point, but you know, life's been just too busy to make that happen.

That's very helpful. Thank you.

Yeah, I think that like it sounds like to me and this is kind of where I've my mind has been heading this morning.

Sort of thinking through these things after I read that from Dustin, I was thinking that, you know, there's not real as is often the case.

There's not really a there's not a right answer to these kinds of questions because the answer is really, I mean the answer is both.

I mean, the answer is you, you know, you have, you have less customers listeners, whatever you want to phrase that for your for a podcast app, you have.

You have these customers, but in their tell you they want things and you can't ignore that you have to do it.

To in some degree, but then you also have a vision and the difficulty is sort of is trying to meld those two things together so that they so that you don't lose the integrity of either one, you know.

And like because I was thinking to myself, what what is the point of an open standard?

So like if you just ask yourself that question, what is when you write a standard if you're if you're doing that work, what are you actually trying to achieve works anywhere with anything?

Yeah, when people, yeah, interop, yeah, I think, but also there is this aspect that lock in is part of the goal, you know.

Like do you remember that article or blog post that the guy that used to be the CEO Spotify wrote a few years ago where he said that the reason podcasting had not advanced is because of RSS had people locked into a particular standard.

Yeah, yeah, I remember this.

Yeah, and so I don't remember what his name was.

But Mike McDonald.

Yes, yes, thank you.

But he wrote this in the thing about it was he wasn't completely wrong.

I mean, he wasn't completely wrong.

RSS did lock people in.

I mean, now it was a close spec in that sense, but the podcast, you know, the podcast namespace obviously made that idea not really hold up over time.

But he wasn't long, he wasn't wrong in the larger sense.

I mean, so like we to the point that lock in is part of the goal as developers, we want to we want there to be one standard we can follow because that makes interop work.

But, you know, and then and having to support a half dozen protocols and standards just make us just makes us crazy.

And it slows everything down.

So, but then we also have this idea of wanting to be open.

So there's again, there's this like tension, this paradox.

And so we do things like we try to bake in the idea of extensibility to the spec.

So RSS 2.0 did this by like writing on top of the XML namespace feature and activity pub.

Like, for example, has extensibility baked in where you can define new actors and actions and object types.

Over time, but but then again, in practice as is so often the case, people don't.

People don't do that very often because you have this thing, you have like for example of my activity pub, you have mastodon.

It's the dominant application in the ecosystem.

And it's going to always just display your fancy new actors and objects and events.

It's just going to cast them to types that already understands.

And all your all your new fancy stuff is just going to kind of get get munged into these existing object types.

And so you just lose and it makes every makes the developers that would do cool things kind of like not want to do it.

Because they don't want to see it.

Like, I don't know, I feel like there's this constant tension between those two things.

And when and when Dustin is saying that, I feel like he's expressing the the thoughts of a lot of developers and podcasting where there is this constant tension between doing something new and maintaining adherence to something to some kind of standard.

Do you feel you feel that all the time as well?

Yeah, I think ultimately everybody is really in trying to pursue the same goal, which is the sustainability of the project.

Either the sustainability of the open ecosystem or the sustainability of their own app.

And so they're not going to waste time and dev hours on things that are going to actually increase their support burden.

So I linked his blog post in the boardroom.

And one of the things he was talking about is like getting hundreds of podcast listening apps out there to adopt a comment section for podcast episodes back when he was just running anchor and not part of Spotify.

And so he didn't control a app side UX.

And so he couldn't do a listener experience.

But there's nothing stopping Apple for making a comment section and saying, yep, everybody with an Apple ID can comment on this here and it's not in an open way.

And really, I think in podcasting sort of that burden is if you try to, you know, maybe a little bit of like top tall poppy syndrome or something like that where if you try to jump ahead, you're actually inviting a huge support burden of like, well, all my listeners and Apple podcasts are going to complain.

Because it only works over here, but that's, you know, that's a little bit running with scissors like you got to accept that burden if you are trying to push the medium forward in some way when I built stand out on FM.

I was basically treating I was like, I'm going to design as if the podcast standards or as if the podcast transcript tag is universal.

I'm going to make transcript to be the default tab instead of the show notes and show a little error message if you don't have it, but basically put the blame on the podcaster for not getting with the times.

And I knew that this was not going to be a enormous success, but I was like, I just want to design under that premise and see what comes out of that.

And then, you know, you say like, yeah, I build this feature in this feature in this feature and just say sorry folks, you know, for the ones who didn't have the transcript.

And you can see other apps taking different approaches to that overcast buying 48 Mac minis and deciding that they need to compete with Apple podcasts by doing all the transcription themselves.

If I can just say, I think Franco nailed it. It was so obvious what he did with the cosmetic that I'm kicking myself.

We had this whole conversation never actually came up with it. And he said just doing it on device.

That different though, he said, if you want to transcript hit this button, if you want a, if you want chapters hit this button, he's not doing it.

He's giving the user the same option as skip ahead, listen quicker, double speed, all this stuff optional. I think that's a brilliant way of doing it.

Yeah, I think fountain basically was also doing that, but charging sets for it. Yeah, trying to see if that was a monetization lever for.

Yes, yes, but if it's using your own devices processing, then you can.

Well, also then you, you, this is what Dave has always wanted for this one podcast that he listens to that has no chapters.

It was a Windows weekly. So security now, security now, whatever, it's all from the same. It's all from pedal.

Yeah, right. So security now. And all you have to do is now you, you, you have the podcast that's on your podcast app.

And then you can say, Oh, I want magic chapters from cosmetic to hit the button that gives you chapters.

And I feel there's no violation of what the RSS feed had. There's no violation. I mean, you've got the podcast where you decide to burn that to a disc to throw your phone in the trash.

I mean, it's all up to you. I think that is it was so obvious and so elegant.

I mean, that's essentially what Stinno.fm did except you just did it off device. You did it like it wasn't in an app form necessarily.

I never actually offered transcription. I mean, I built transcribed.fm as well. And I was going to sort of merge the two at some point.

But Stinno.fm basically was just like, sorry, you are so if this podcaster did not provide their own transcript.

And I had some feature branches along the way that were like, yeah, you can maybe upload your own or other things like that.

But you used L402 at some point, right? Yeah, yeah. The transcribed.fm was essentially transcribed transcription as a service.

But I didn't actually tie it back into the like podcaster or like the listener facing UI.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. I mean, I think there's this trade like there's this.

I think maybe it's helpful sometimes to think about what not what users want.

I know Dave Winer used to kind of bristle at calling people users.

And that's that's the thing that I always admired about him.

I think users the way developers and IT people talk about about people as quote users.

I think it can be sort of not fair sometimes or it's sort of like looking down on them.

But like not what users want, but like what people what do people want?

You know, I mean, and that includes developers. That's you know, so what do we all want?

We want new what we want new experiences that in my opinion.

Ice cream. We want ice cream. Just one ice cream day. If that's all we really want is ice cream ice cream for the board room.

Beef milkshakes for everybody involved. We want we want I think we want new experiences.

That make things either novel or convenient, meaning like they like less friction in our life.

And like I said, that's not just that's not just something that look like users and customers want. That's what we all want.

And I think it's human nature is that that experience of that's the experience of marginal utility.

I mean, this is just the thing that we that how we assign value to something.

If it if it if it introduces a novel experience to our life or it makes things more convenient in some way.

But but that trade off there's like this fundamental paradox as there is so often.

It's just it's just almost baked into realities. There's just fundamental paradox where you have an where a novel experience means more friction.

You know, because it's it's a new thing that you have an that you haven't encountered before.

And there's a there's a spin up period a warm up period where you have to get used to this new thing.

But whatever this thing is and get some sort of adaptation into your life of to make it fit in.

There's so many examples of this like I mean video podcasting is a perfect example.

There is there is this new novel thing this HLS video in in in the app thing.

But man is it a death some friction right there.

It's it's hard to get that up and run and like think about things like windows eight.

I mean that is completely a new novel experience but man was there a ton of friction.

Is I think the truth probably of all this stuff probably it probably falls somewhere in the middle as it usually does like.

These new new features if they're not too disruptive and frictiony they touch that desire for novelty.

You know and having a standard like an open standard at that point is not even really like you don't even think about it is it's not even a consideration.

But like so you always there's always this weird trade off where and I think that's that's probably podcasting is always existing right there in that weird area.

So like in your in your article when you introduced you know you're like hey why don't we use.

Schema dot org snippets why don't you use that for discovery.

I think you're just this the sense I get is that you're embracing that this is.

Going to there's going to be a friction this going to be encountered but it's also a way that can move things forward if we just sort of ignore that part and do it like you said you did with.

You know with with your product just move forward and act like everybody's already doing it let's just build and build it with our head down almost.

Yeah I think in general there's not one right answer that's why there's not only a single email client out there that's why there's not only a single task management you know to do list app.

Everybody has a different theory of the case and everybody's partially right because everyone's brains are different and are more suited towards one UX or another UX and this everybody's just trying to build something that actually feels right to them and this is what is so exciting to me.

As a complete user dangerous in every way.

I am building the things I want I don't need your Excel spreadsheet I don't need Libra office I just need to be able to read my donation sheet so I built it myself.

Now this is this is the revolution if you ask me.

Yeah I think like the live item tag is something that works you know for the shows that care about it and they don't need for it to be universally adopted they just need a sustainable amount of audience that they find it fulfilling right.

Yeah and in that world that you described you always have the option for something to later take off and become more broadly adopted you have that you have this I think maybe that's you know maybe that's the thing that we haven't really understood about what.

What's been what's going on over maybe the last few years is that and I think AI that whole AI stuff just kind of really through gas on this fire but it was already burning is this idea that scale and massive adoption is just not as important as it used to be.

Amen like you know and in it so you can have.

You can have a feature or something that is really only used by small subset of people and then later.

It can just exist and it has for I mean look at Noster I mean there's what 10,000 people on Noster maybe I don't know it's not very many active people that are on it but that thing just keeps on taking.

It just keeps on going and because the people who are over there and are like locked in and engaged with it they just they just like it and want to be there at this point right I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

You know yeah I wrote a post at some point when people were sort of talking about like the lightning address versus you know putting the node right in the.

Value tag things like that and you know seeing the donations fall off I think there is just some amount of confusion about like okay what is the.

Who are the constituents that are in your you know your early adopter group are they all.

People who love living at the bleeding edge there's some amount of people that just love getting in the door early they love just being first I like claiming my username on.

Brand new social media sites doesn't mean I'm going to become a heavy adopter of that platform but I just like being in the door first right.

And as runway runs out and you realize oh this thing isn't taking off there's not hockey stick of velocity here I thought there would be.

But there's not you know what I'm just going to Irish exit and say say goodbye and you see some people drift away from the community and you thought they were on board with you because they were also like an innovator in the very like you know far into the bell curve but they're like no I was here expecting this party would get bigger and if the party's not going to get bigger I'm going to go put my efforts elsewhere.

So sometimes that 10,000 is all 10,000 that are happy to just be the 10,000 it's it's your secret club but sometimes you need to realize oh some amount of people here were like waiting for the big acts to show up and there's no headliner.

Interesting that well that gives me a lot to think about that description is is so true in so many way and what is the term Irish exit mean.

That just means like leaving without saying goodbye like they don't necessarily make a big big to do of it you know they don't say goodbye to the host they just disappear quietly.

Oh, when did they leave?

Okay, I guess.

So let's go ahead before we talk about your article.

I want out of the reason I asked you here is to get your thoughts on on this the the styling stuff that we talked about.

Reese that we've talked about recently specifically around the publisher page but also just an asset asset delivery in general and you you really designed the podcast images podcast image tag to sort of fit this.

This idea of allowing a tag to specify the format of a thing so the so that you can deliver assets other than just you know standard stuff what.

I guess my general question is I just think I want to push this forward because I have a need for it with the product that we build.

And I just feel like there's such a huge opportunity here for publisher like not publishers but platforms to design their own spec and then have it delivered through a tag like this.

From a design standpoint you're you're just you're an amazing designer like what do you what do you see as the perfect.

Delivery mechanism to give you all the stuff you need as a designer to have this sort of brand kit experience from the creator.

Yeah I think you know if you're the designer slash developer of your own user experience like you are responsible to your users right and so you have to say all right if I had all the assets I absolutely wanted.

You know here's the if I had the perfect assets here's what I would design exactly but now I also have to handle all these edge cases and I'm also taking on the support burden of all right if I don't get one or more of these assets.

What's the fallback scenario and is that fallback scenario something that I would be proud to show to people and is that going to be the experience actually it's going to call it the fallback but is it the experience that actually 99% of my.

My listeners will will get.

And so you have to say like oh yeah my comfortable shipping that as my really my default experience and everybody else you know and a small small number of people get a like progressive enhanced version what am I willing to do there so.

Like I launched episodes FM with all right I'll do background color pulled you know from the the dominant color of the artwork and then I will set the text color to black or white depending on what is the more accessible contrasting color.

But they don't get like the text as the secondary dominant color of the artwork like I'm not letting you know I'm not going to listen for some tag for the.

Podcast to provide a whole little you know color color palette and fully inherit all of that because I care about my listeners experience more than I care about the podcasters opinions on like oh I know I really like this like middle gray on this soft gray background I'm like that's not accessible I'm not going to respect your your style guide over the accessibility that I care about for my own users I I want to I take pride in the experience I'm delivering and I.

I think I just fundamentally don't think that podcasters get to dictate that to apps and I think some of my tags have confused people around that because they may be disagree with that premise where podcasters really get to provide content and every podcast app developer on the sun has their own opinion of the good UX and they can use that content and you know there's the people who are thinking that like transcripts themselves are.

You know altering the content and things like that but won't get into that but I think isn't it true that.

At least I think that's what I'm seeing is when a podcast app has additional features that you pay for premium addition isn't that kind of all the extra stuff that people want like I've only did this if only did that if only you could do this is that or am I mistaken is that mean.

And I really don't know I mean because we have a lot of at podcast app developers I'm just curious like where what are you putting the premium on is it stuff that if it's resource intensive I get it.

But is it also just edge cases that we that we throw in there.

I think it ends up being what they can get away with right I think um you know overcast has had like their smart speed feature and that was initially a pay walled thing.

And as time went on that became a free feature because over Marco didn't want to you know to have the normal experience smart speed and voice boost both of.

But that was initially pay walled and then eventually he made it free and it's just what's table stakes among your competition so you know I think anybody who is putting anything behind their premium paywall is trying to make sure that their project is sustainable and I don't begrudge them that.

So they can put normal you know put the sleep timer behind the paywall sure whatever you want and I think you know developers may be see like oh no that would be hard to write yeah I can see why that's behind the paywall oh that's resource intensive but really customers are absolutely willing to pay for you know just support your project and whatever sort of big leaf you put over it of like yeah I'll put this behind the paywall just because enough users who care enough about it are willing to pay for it.

Yeah I think I remember it when I was working at Spotify I was you know talking with the team that actually cares about the you know podcast listener experience and was talking about you know features that are available in other apps that were lacking in Spotify and you know so I'm just in some public channel on slack and somebody else who's from the super premium team said like oh that would be a great thing for the super premium bundle I'm like it's free in literally every other podcast app and they're like yeah but we can put it in our $20 a month tier.

I'm like or we could give it away for free I don't know why you think that this is going to be a differentiator that people will pay for yeah yeah podcast artwork 20 bucks a month.

Yeah I just I wonder about it's interesting because you what you're saying really I think lines up with what Brandon from pod page of saying as well there is this synthesis that you have to achieve between what the creator is what the creator is presented.

To the world because it's not just the podcast it's also the art and their brand to a certain degree but then there's also like you can't just take you can't just take it because so many times those those creators you can't just take it as is all the time because the creators they they they

effort up you know they just they make a really bad boy do they yes you know they make really bad choices so you have to like you have to massage this thing you're given into a thing that you can present to your customers that makes sense yeah you know that yeah good if you look at apples specs for all their

additional images they actually request laid layered PSD files and I'm 100% sure that they go in there and tweak things to their hearts content before actually pushing it into the you know CMS or whatever.

Hmm okay that's so okay so in light of that is like maybe I should ask it this way do we already have what a sufficient set of tags that we can deliver these things do we need anything out

else I think we're sufficient we need the booking tag we need the booking tag well yes I mean that yeah that that but for for style got you know for the equivalent of like a style

style guide style guide or theme color I think it will come down to all right is if we were to add one more tag for all the shows that don't

have it they're going to get some fallback experience who is going to be blamed for how poor that fallback

experiences is it going to be the podcaster or the app developer if a show is missing of its primary image I don't even think Apple like let's it into the directory.

Yeah yeah right and so you don't blame Apple for that you blame the feed for not knowing what the bare minimum is and I just don't think any new tag can

any developer like feels like the burden wouldn't be on them to handle the fallback thing they wouldn't just be able to say the podcasts that fall not me they're like no this is your UX you own it you own you know the visitors are coming to your website or your app you need to handle you know that the very you know dominant edge case of nobody's supporting this brand new tag that was invented two months ago so in the case of like a publisher page which is pretty net new.

Any but you know you can build your own hosted Godcaster publisher pages with or without a tag in the feed and you can make it required for your to even publish the the feed the publisher feed in the first place to actually fill in all these values on some you know web page.

Uh but it doesn't necessarily mean that anybody else is going to launch publisher page support that uses all those values if they can't build a good fallback experience as well.

Yeah I was thinking about like I guess in my mind I just see this this I have this vision of of a of a of a way that somebody can specify that let's say.

Pod news weekly review could specify all these different assets and then whether it shows up in true fans or a cosmetic or Apple podcasts that that all that the look and feel is generally the same they have now I mean each app is going to have its own flare and it's on design you know that's not going to change but that.

But that your your brand is right for the for the brands that truly care like you know that actually have a team of people working or or at least one really good designer that spent a lot of time trying to get these things right.

Then that they could deliver to the app something that would let the app like faithfully represent what the creator was trying to do.

And I know that I know that's probably nice you you have so so much faith more than a mustard seed David more than a mustard seed yes okay yeah you're going to get five people that's interfering with the relationship between.

The app developer and their consumer base their user base there whatever you know key where do you want to call everybody who uses a given app is it though because we have the like because the like the episode artwork is essentially that contract are already.

This just excuse the support request yeah yeah no who has the support.

I get you I think if the podcast wants a fully branded experience build your own calm like there's there's.

Nothing stopping any podcast from building the perfect UX I know several design podcasts that they're they have some very bespoke UX exactly for their thing I was I was listening to a designer focus show that was publishing on soundcloud but years ago supported transcripts that jumped the player like you could tap the key word and right jump the player forward and back it's always been possible if you own the listener experience but if you don't own the listener experience you're you know you're shouting through.

You know two cans over a wire to try to communicate the experience you want those listeners to get but that's not even really up to you because the app developer has their own theory of what makes the best listener experience.

I feel like we I feel like we just talking for the Godcaster standpoint and I think I think this is true for other podcast products to I feel like we also just we also get a lot of support requests that are coming from just simply.

The podcaster like the podcaster not putting the right kind of image and that kind of thing in there.

Um, you know it's I feel like it kind of cuts both it cuts both ways a little bit it's like well the podcaster is telling you hey I wish my podcast looked a different looked better on your platform and then you have the listener saying hey this doesn't look right and it's really it's like both you're in the middle and both sides have a problem with something.

And I think I'm probably just being naive and thinking that if we had better specs that it would be that all that would smooth itself out which it probably won't.

Yeah, I think it's just down to there's not one universal right answer of what the best listener experiences.

And everybody is essentially you know the marketplace of ideas early App Store days you know pull to refresh was not ever present across every.

V based thing and then you know treaty discovered that and then everybody else decided to get on board and follow that UX right.

Yeah, okay, so you're your block your blog post touched on the thing the podcast missing link it touched it touched on this this thing that I had.

Thought about a while back, which was the the reason why there is no sort of like Google for podcasts where you can find because there's no there's no good source of SEO backlink like type material for more.

You can pay drink if nobody's yeah, if there's nothing to drink yeah, so you you kind of flesh that out into some real thoughts do you want to like generalize that.

Yeah, I think podcasting has not actually faced the same evolutionary press pressure as the web, so it's why I'm calling it the missing link and why the graphic was that the evolutionary March.

The like there's no search engines there's no social feeds very little algorithmic type things that force the content to adapt to.

You know find you know to match with whatever the algorithm is prioritizing whether length or punchiness or how many people you know do three or three minutes of pre rolls and don't expect their audience is going to click away right because it's not a YouTube video it's not something that exists in these other environments.

So I think you know this in some way ties back to the YouTube conversation about oh why are these podcasts doing poorly on YouTube why don't they seeing the numbers that they see elsewhere it's like well because.

The you know it's not evolutionarily fit for the environment it has not evolved under the same pressures it's it's had this stability of just being subscribed once and Apple podcasts will keep auto downloading it forever more you know up until relatively recently right.

And so I was just sort of saying like all right if it's basically if you treat podcasting like it's not the web it has its own separate browsers shows our websites episodes or articles why don't we have links between things and some of this was really inspired by the Apple timed link feature where they're supporting timed links for books and TV shows and movies into Apple owned apps not.

You know if an overcast link is in the show notes they're not surfacing that in the same way.

And I said okay what's the open version of this and I think there's there's ways into Apple's systems I think I understand a little bit I can really something with pod link that will work with apples time links at some point.

But I was really just saying like you know it's really just this sort of the shame that we have not really supported podcast episode sharing or even podcast show level sharing inside our own little silo deco system we have not deep into people's relationship with the entire podcast in community.

As well as we could have over the years because I think you know hey we don't have this fundamental link that keeps you inside the podcast app.

And every decentralized ecosystem sort of has this problem but a bunch of the other ones that you know grew up after the age of Twitter realized you know it's really nice being able to click a link inside this thing and we're just staying inside our app or we're just staying on platform.

You know any any news article out on the web can put a bunch of share buttons on.

Next to their article to try to get some viral attention in these feeds but the master on one is you know all right like here's three steps I know they recently announced some things to simplify that UX.

So at the end of the day it's really about okay what could we do to improve linking between shows so that this ecosystem could maybe mature a little bit in terms of deepening people's interest in other shows.

I mean pod link sort of fills this niche but not everybody knows pod link and it's you know a huge burden to ask everybody to all right go.

I know you just want to link to this show that you have right here but you don't want to share your pocket cast link because you know you're going to have to feel the support burden of half your listeners or have to people who click on it.

Not really being able to do anything with it so they just end up saying find it wherever you download your podcast.

And that's that may be that call may be a radical statement according to a neildash and I think so I've come around to thinking that it actually is something something important for us that we can still say something like that it's huge yeah.

And so I was like all right how do we how do we solve this and so I think the schema tag would allow basically if anybody links to pod news or pod link or apple or Spotify or any.

Thing in a show note that that app could give that listener the option to just open that link right inside the app.

So how so this would start by being able to this will start by maybe some an app or multiple apps crawling through maybe the podcast index can do this as well like crawling through show notes links any any link it can find in the.

In the RSS feed in trying and then trying to do a deeper discovery on what on this the content of that link trying to find an RSS feed that may.

Maybe embedded in there in the alternate or trying to find the Jason L.D.

Metadata tags that kind of thing is that kind of how you envision that working.

Yeah and there are ways you can like cloud fair recently announced that they were doing the you can pass an accept header asking for text slash mark down and they'll deliver the whole site just as mark down there's similar mechanisms for just saying pass like an accept profile schema dot org header and I'll just return the Jason so if websites really wanted to get on board with this more than just we put the schema in there because it helps our SEO.

They could and the apps could make you know special requests specifically for this data against a given link.

So is that is the mark down accept header is that to be more agent like you AI agent friendly I guess they're they're pushing that so that models don't have to tokenize you know multi megabyte pages when instead they just want like the text content of something.

Yeah that makes sense well I mean it would be an interesting so if nothing else as a start to me it would be interesting just to do a crawl of all that content God knows how long it would take.

It made it may take many days to do all that crawling but.

It would be an interesting experiment just to find out how much of those how many of those metadata tags of what formats actually exist.

For sure you know because I think that's a question none of us can answer.

Is it is it yeah and I think I have a lot of the data that would be interesting to actually like maybe provide a backfill API like if I know.

You know what from what I know about all these various platforms if some of these links aren't just you know the podcaster zone calm.

How can I actually provide the context that actually isn't on that web pages API so in the same way that there was the the shim for.

The value tag providing some and point that says like you could go crawl yourself and it may not be there but if it's not there i'm going to maybe haven't alternate value.

I mean have you done any of that kind of crawling at all yeah yeah i've done I've done a bit of that work but okay this came up a little bit more suddenly so I was like are you know what i'll just i'll just tease what I think could be built here.

Okay alright so you have you have a you have more than just an idea you have actual code.

Yeah yeah this is in general i'm you know i'm primarily a designer so i'm not actually somebody who ends up caching about to things in databases and say like yeah building mount database of all these things but.

I am building a you know a sort of like a stateless version that would you know go make that request on your behalf but then use the information that I have collected over over my time running pod link to.

Figure out you know go hit other API and points or things like that to figure out if this episode actually is a podcast episode in some way.

Watch out when you start building something you're going to end up on death by death by claw dot com.

I visited that for pod link and what is it's cutting cutting summary a podcast link aggregator so simple it couldn't even load its own home page without for cells security checkpoint asking if you're a bot ironic.

But it totally missed it totally missed the undefined in the title.

Well you just visit the home page you don't run into that issue but okay yeah that's that's to me to me every every product that you ever build it must say undefined in the end of the year that's how I know you built it.

Yeah great no I think this isn't it it's an interesting idea and I think that.

I feel like probably some of the comments you got on there are also right that in some ways this did protect podcasting from becoming just like a junk door you know.

Jesse a junk drawer but that doesn't mean that is that doesn't mean that it's not useful.

You know because the thing about Google and that I've thought about for a long time is that they it's not just that they built a better search engine yes initially initially the ideas of patron can backlink.

Yes that was the better mouse trap but it did that's not that's not why they became what they are what they did later.

You know that to me the primary reason they became the dominant force in search that they did because everybody could have taken that approach was they did rapidly they came out with the web master tools.

And what they ended up doing was getting people to go in and give them the metadata for their site for their website structure.

And those became signals as well they got they got the actual producers of the websites themselves to get involved in the process.

So they just ended up with more initially they ended up with so much more metadata about a site than anybody else had.

And I think that also had a lot to do with their dominance and so those like what I'm saying is the metadata just the existence of it has the chance to become a very strong signal that somebody cares.

You know and if somebody cares then it's probably at least partially a signal of the quality of the content.

I don't know if any of that made sense but yeah no I think I think the stability angle I absolutely agree with some of the comments I got basically saying like yeah it protected it was it was it was it's own little galapagos islands of isolated development where podcasting could flourish with.

Without facing some of the you know JavaScript add ecosystem pressures of the rest of the web and you know we can be grateful to people like Apple for holding firm on you know supporting this product at all and not set bowing out you know whenever.

The rest of their business you know ballooned massively and said yeah podcasting that was a fun side project we're going to deprecate that and there's enough third party apps out there.

Like their presence stopped a bunch of DC money from coming in you know taking it over and turning it into.

Complete you know add invested.

You know user experience where they said like well really you know only if you're paying $20 a month at minimum you know will anybody have a as pleasant user experiences they can have today.

You know I feel like that just that's a whole different discussion that I don't really.

But it's at least the add the add part of of what podcast that's becoming bad on its own you're you know regardless of what have of whether of the discoverability issue the add load and the add loud my wife sent me a podcast the other day and.

Gosh man I don't listen to podcast with with mini dynamic with dynamic ads and I'm very often it's pretty rare and every time I do it is such a jarring experience and it's the same add four or five times.

This was a podcast about like Jeffrey Epstein and it was like about they were talking about his victims and all this kind of stuff and then out of nowhere I wish I clipped it it was like this crunching sound and then a woman crying I was like what the hell am I listening to what it was so jarring and frankly kind of upsetting and then it was like it was an add for like some kind of for like snack chips.

What are we guys what are we do in here.

This is just yeah it's horrible but so I don't think at this point it's going to be anything to do with podcast discovery metadata that makes or breaks whether podcasting becomes add infested garbage I think that's happening well enough on its own you know I hope for sure.

All right Dave shall we thank a few people since we are and got to get you back to the day job on time yeah sure he'll do.

I have nothing because I still haven't even had time to open up a channel.

Oh okay in fact I tried to open a channel but the you know with with several different wallets I was trying to connect to our node with what is it what's the connect.

I'm used to looking at no no you're supposed to be able to just scan a QR code to keep telling me macaroon invalid macaroon and valid my so you know that I tried going in setting up because I know how to open channels with other programs oh no no that node is so humongous everything crashes every helper apps like I you to big I can't do anything some of this lightning stuff is really still kind of buggy so let me see maybe.

If I'm lucky let me just see I might be able to let me just see if I can get the.

Get related maybe I can get it from run runway let me see can you otherwise can you can you run your your bot.

Yeah I've got so I extracted a bunch of stuff out of.

I got some software now that will take everything out of.

The boost like the messages stuff that we get from the albie hub.

Let me see if I can cause here's what I have I have I got a lot of manual I got.

Let me see this is odd.

Oh here we go actually kind of worked I guess.

Strange why is it.

So I got three three three three from hey citizen with cast thematic.

Okay and he says hello fellow fellow computer scientists if I want to use podping dot alpha to replay pod pings from its archive dot db for my app should I just read from the db.

Directly or should I change something in pod ping dot alpha's code.

Read that again please.

Okay I was not expecting a technical question right if I want to use pod ping dot alpha to replay pod pings from its archive dot db for my app.

Should I just read from the db directly or should I change something in pod ping dot alpha's code.

Well I'm not clear on if he's talking about he's archiving or he's getting the archive from another node so the way it works is.

You if you start the pod ping gossip listener by with an environment variable enable enable catch up equals true.

Then your listener is going to go pull the rest of the swarm and find a peer that has archiving enabled and it will grab all the stuff you missed.

And the the assumption is that when you're doing this that you're piping this output the standard output to some other process so you're going to get them.

I mean you're not I mean you you could be storing them too if you had archiving and right right right.

So at that point you could go do it everyone I mean but you know you can go you can hit if you're archiving them to have them.

And then you want to just access access them out of your database yes fine.

I mean yes fine you can use that see but but that's not going to be the way this goes in the future and the what the goal we're going to hit is we're going to be creating a is that the listener will open up a socket that you can hook into and you can just read it.

Out you can read it out in from some other app so there will be a way to pump this stuff out into into a different place programmatically rather than just necessarily like screen scraping the standard output.

I hope that answers the question caller I hope that helps caller caller 1000.

So I'm I'm using the I'm using the runway from podnews.net I see that that's I don't know if we got any more boost I got manual payment from Seth colon I agree all the best Martin.

Another manual payment great conversations I don't know where these are coming from.

And then I hit the wait here's a Chris you know using customatic okay here we go huge more than 20 different wallets can now be connected to

the customatic by not a master wallet connect pick whatever works best for you iOS wallet apps Android apps PWA's command line wallets not custodial options custodial options most requiring zero sign up.

There you go and then I have a this is a super comment using the newly refactor true fans API which supports both key send and LN address test.

No comment 555. So there's all kinds of stuff in here I am sure I'm missing something but that's what I got because now I hit the delimiter of comics for blogger.

I have so many windows open I'm going to try to make a way are you using Linux again you are you still on the windows windows.

No I'm on Linux yes I am I'm using your hyperlamp. No no I'm just still on a bunch on this machine on this way until you start using hyperlamp you're going to love it so much coming soon yeah because it's it's for OCD guys like you with me.

Window Fiddler's yes we got some we got PayPal's let me see here we've got Michael Goggan $5 thinking Michael or hey Hernandez $5 Cohen Glotzfog $5 Christopher reamer $10 James Sullivan $10

John's Creek studios $5 think John's Creek studios drips got $15.00 right now in the boardroom earlier said he also has been having sleep issues.

Ah boost boost boost it happens.

Chris Bernardic $5 Michael Kimmerer $5.33 and that's our monthlies okay thank you monthly we do have some boosts let me do let me try to do this spreadsheet first I hate this I'm going to have to use your spreadsheet.

I'm going to put on the GitHub put it on the GitHub.

Oh this is terrible labor office blows yeah yes so does Excel they all blow you want the Adam Curry donation tracker yes do need the donation tracker.

Is it see there is a Dave you've gotten so close to the solution in describing your security now issue crowdsourced me crowdsourced chapters are a thing on YouTube with the sponsor block extension I pay for YouTube premium but still always use it if something like this were implemented in podcasting 2.0 apps incentivize the chapter making with the feeds that encourage it for the feeds that don't someone will likely take care of it out of spite.

That's Jay Moon through fountain and the spreadsheet is so bad I cannot even tell how much says they said.

Oh that's a very bad spread wait no I'm sorry 1422 there you go I figured it out on the fly.

Let's see oh I'm getting things for her stuff that is not our podcast there it is.

That's it so now I have this is horrible okay more work more work needs to be doing but at least we that is one we would have missed though so I feel better about this already.

Circus media 3333.

Through podverse another productive meeting thanks Adam and Dave circus media yes thank you happy happy happy.

2222 that's Bruce the ugly cracking duck through podcast guru a new body is on the list of many people open source that L.O.L.

Thanks for the episode 73 73's not sure I understand which I'm about Bruce but it doesn't matter 73's that's you just say 73's you good to go.

5170 from anonymous on true fans thank you for episode pop in a term.

Yeah baby we pop that term.

And the dilemma commissioner blogger 23,000 sets through fountain he says.

Howdy David Adam today I want to recommend a micro podcast quote the credibility minute is a micro podcast for consultants coaches and professional services providers who want to build authority online without becoming full time content creators.

In the quote get it at stereo forest calm slash minute thanks to Martin Linda scope for proposing it you CSB the A.I.

Arch Wizard he is the A.I.

Arch Wizard I still owe him an interview sorry CSB's getting all puffy now.

Now he's pump he's now he's hitting me I know I know I'm not responding to well no because I just it's been crazy and you know and he doesn't understand that.

And so he like since Adam refuses to do interview with me delay is maybe Nathan can do it.

You delay is not denial.

11 labs to see this is just ignore real Adam and have A.I.

Adam.

If only that were true if only it actually worked it will be dying was there a 12 second delay between the question and every answer.

Exactly.

Is that it that's all of our that's everything.

That is it.

All right well thank you all very much for supporting this value for value project everything that you support support us with go straight into the podcast index dot org.

Bank account slash PayPal you keep stuff in the PayPal move it back and forth so we can pay things.

And that's what we pay the bills with that's what everything is used for that and that allows everybody to enjoy the A.I.

And everything else at no charge which is part of our mission.

We don't have a mission statement but the mission statement is kind of like use it at no charge.

Don't you don't you don't scrape don't scrape you don't bother us and we won't charge you.

Exactly. Hey Nathan thank you so much for joining us in the board room today really appreciate you brother.

Thank you for having me and thank you everybody and thank you for for writing that was very helpful I'm glad that Dave invited you so we could talk about that today.

Actually you guys were talking while I was just sitting back and relaxing I'm like this is interesting.

I kind of like this podcast wait I'm on the podcast what am I talking about.

Thank you very much board to everybody have yourselves a great weekend will you back next Friday with the another board meeting of the misfits.

Here at podcasting 2.0.

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcastindex.org for more information.

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