Pool Remodels: What Lies Beneath the Plaster

0:00The cat tells the chemistry is good by looking at it in closing clear yesterday from the last time. The saltwater pool is a chlorine pool! This is the Talking Pool's podcast with pool pros from every region in the country. If it happens in a pool, you'll hear about it here. Everything from tips and hacks to the latest tricks and trends. Breaking news? We lay it on the line, we tell it like it is because we think you deserve to know. Hey everybody, it's Kelly with Talking Pools, another bonus episode. So today we're going to talk remodels with Jose from Adam's Pool Solutions.

1:03And I will let him introduce himself. Hi, how's everybody doing? I'm Jose Gonzales with Adam's Pool Solutions here in Pleasanton, California. Can you give us a little background on yourself and your company? Yeah, so I officially started working with Adam's pools right after graduating high school in 2014. So I'm coming up on 12 years officially with the company. But my history with Adam's goes back to when I was 8 years old. During the summers I would come out and help my father with his crew. So I really did grow up in the swimming pool industry. And over the years I've had the opportunity to learn different sides of the business and work my way around in the field management, like project management and sales. So I think the experience that I have from working out in the field gives me an understanding of what it actually goes into building a pool and remodeling these pools. So that just helps me with customers really.

2:03They seem to trust me a lot more than if I was a regular sales guy. So I grew up in the pool industry and I didn't want to do pools, but here I am. What was something that made it so you wanted to continue with the pool business? So I personally love pools. I've been the pool at least four or five days a week. And to me it's like some of my best memories growing up were around the pool with my cousins, my friends, and I love transforming like old beta pools that nobody wants to be around to a place for families to create memories to entertain. Yeah, I kind of like you. I like transforming old pools into practically new pools. I do have a remodel right now where even though the shell is one thing we're keeping we even had to repair it because we had 26 feet of structural cracks. And people don't really understand. I feel that remodels aren't just plaster and tile.

3:06It's bringing the pool up to code. But yeah, I just that's one reason I thought having this conversation with you is great so people can learn what really goes on on the remodel side other than plaster and tile. Oh, yeah. The plaster and tile is I don't want to oversimplify it, but sometimes that's one of the easier, easier steps of the process. So I know that your company is based out of Pleasanton, but you also have a shop in Vegas. Have you heard of any differences between the two areas? So from my personal experience here in Northern California in the Bay Area. I could tell you that the two markets are very different because we have so many like microclad material in the Bay Area, whereas Vegas deserts pretty much just hot everywhere. You can be working on a swimming pool in San Rafael and it's 65 degrees and you drive 45 minutes away from there and it's 90 degrees somewhere else.

4:09So there's tons of differences in climate and then inspectors too. You could be dealing with the building department drive 20 minutes down the road and you're dealing with a different building department. I think that happens way too much. Like I had one I was doing permit drawings for in Pacifica. It took two years to get it approved. So then the county or the city, if that one was a city, was treating it like a new build versus a remodel where when it's a remodel, you have not as many criteria that you have to have, I found, then you do on a new build. Is that what you've experienced? Yes, definitely. So one thing that bothers me a little bit with inspectors is when they come out to inspect our scope of work, our project, and then they start pointing out like the outlets on the house aren't water is the same. You need like they start pointing out and calling things that have nothing to do with our scope of work.

5:10And sometimes they almost want to not pass the inspection that they're there to inspect because there's something else wrong with the house. Like stay in your lane, please. Yeah, we actually have that affidavit form and all of our permits, all the homeowners have to sign off that they have all their smoke detectors enough to code. Yeah, like you had mentioned about the structural cracks that is always the biggest one for us. And I like you said I like to mention it from the first time I'm out there quoting the job, just let them know that is something that can come up, especially here in the Bay area where there's a lot of properties on hillsides and different soils. So what are some common hidden issues that you uncover on your remodels? So structural cracks is mainly the biggest one, but sometimes homeowners though they're plumbing stuffed up at the equipment is PVC. And once we get in there, it's they'll have some copper lines.

6:11And I always recommend whenever we're doing a remodel that that's the perfect time to replace the plumbing and upgrade it to PVC. Yeah, I just experienced where at the equipment pad, it was to it. And when we open the ground, the return pipe was inch and a quarter and then reduced from inch and a quarter to the fitting was three quarters inch. So we had to replum the whole pool. Yeah, yep. And some of some I've had customers where they're dead said on just leave it just leave it. And it's like it's your pools not going to function properly. Here me out. Yeah, well, and also what if the county is being really strict on title 24 and they want those flow rates to be a certain amount. It's like sorry, but I have to do this because we don't do it. Then we're not going to pass inspection and we are halted in our project. You're not going to swim. Yes. When it comes to structural cracks, what is the method that you guys believe works the best?

7:12So like I took I'm big into continuing education. So I take like Genesis classes and water shaped classes and I was taught and talking with other people, which I feel is a nice way is to expose the crack, put rebar in it and then put if you're shooting gun or hydraulics meant to fill it. But then there's other people who believe using staples works just fine. What is a method that you guys have seen works best for you? I 100% agree with you anytime I come across a crack. I want to open up and expose the rebar because more often than not, it's going to be rusted and deteriorated. So you're pretty much rebuilding that section of the wall and it's a lot less likely to fail. But that's not to say that I'm completely opposed of using staples because it all depends on the size of the crack. If it's a hairline crack that's starting to open up more staples are really good solution and something that I do when I recommend doing staples if the crack isn't too excessive is also applying a layer of anti fracture membrane on top of the staples for added support.

8:24Yeah, the homeowners got the budget and they're willing to open up the cracks and have to that expense. That's my go to way. When you do talk to the clients about, you know, structural cracks that need to be repaired. Do you explain to them what ultimately can happen if we don't repair it? Yeah, 100%. I like to, how can I say to me, you can never give too much information. I like to put everything right up front and as soon as I sign the contract, I'll dive into it even further just let them know like this is a hundred percent. I'm not going to say that's not going to happen. These are the methods of that we can fix it. I actually like to include as added options. I always include the three crack treatment options that we have at Adams, whether it's just anti fracture membrane, carbon fiber staples or opening up and hand packing the area. I'm not going to say that's a problem. Our minimum prices and how much it would be per foot just so there's no confusion because I've had pools where you don't see any cracks in the plaster, nothing.

9:32We remove everything and there's a $8,000, $12,000 change order to repair the cracks and homeowners are upset about it and it kind of sucks because like you put in all this work to make sure they're happy and have a good experience. Something like that comes up and it just switches their complete mood, but I've been doing a very good job of letting them know that it's it's further best interest. You want to build something that's going to last. Yes. I found that education is huge for clients, especially with building trust with them. I also tell people, even though I have a budget in my price for shit happens. I'm going to start using that one. I'm not saying it's going to be $10,000. It could or not 10,000, 10%, but it could be less. It could be more, but at least they have like, OK, this is this is what we need to think about. Make sure we have this available if needed. That goes a long way with the customers.

10:34They could see they could see that that you care when you do stuff like that. So how often in remodels do you find that structural or hydrologues problems have been previous? Oh, so when I first switched over, I was originally a plaster and pebble applicator here, that I'm I've done a little bit of everything a little plumbing. I thought structural crags were one in every 20 pools and I have come to learn that I was very wrong. I actually, I'd say one out of every two pools, at least half of the pools that I deal with have cracks to a certain extent. Really severe cracks, I would say one out of every five pools I come across. And then when it comes to hydraulics, is that just about as often that the they're not there, especially in older pools where I was talking to my dad when I found out I had to replum the whole entire pool. And he was saying, you know, back in the day, you know, 60 70s, no one cared about hydrox of the pool, as long as it ran water, who cared?

11:34Yeah, it's it's like that this is the case, but we I come across it a lot. There's people that will have the the resurface their their pool with smaller companies or unlicensed contractors and they cover up the hydrostatic valves. And I would say at a temp pools, I probably see six or seven where there's no hydrostatic pipe and pool. And then what is one remodel surprise sticks in your mind like when you're working on a job didn't expect it and it was just like the most you'll never forget that situation. And it kind of paid the way for how you do things later on in your career. I'm a water baby.

13:01What is one remodel surprise that sticks in your mind like when you're working on a job didn't expect it and it was just like the most you'll never forget that situation. And it kind of paid the way for how you do things later on in your career. 20 pools and I have come to learn that I was very wrong. I actually I'd say one out of every two pools, at least half of the pools that I deal with have cracks to a certain extent really severe cracks. I would say one out of every five pools I come across. And then when it comes to hydraulics, is that just about as often that the they're not there, especially older pools where I was talking to my dad when I found out I had to replum the whole entire pool.

14:03And he was saying, you know, back in the day, you know, 60 70s, no one cared about the hydrox of the pool, as long as it ran water, who cared. Yeah, it's it sucks that this is the case, but we I come across it a lot. Those people that will have the the resurface their their pool with smaller companies or unlicensed contractors and they cover up the hydrostatic valves. And I would say at a temp pools, I probably see six or seven where there's no hydrostatic pipe and pool. And then what is one remodel surprise that sticks in your mind like when you're working on a job didn't expect it and it was just like the most you'll never forget that situation. And it kind of paid the way for how you do things later on in your career. I'm trying to think this is a good question.

15:03So something that comes in mind that surprised me once I for the most part every pool of come across they have when you have lights they'll they'll have actual light. A plastic housing and I came across a pool that had three lights and there was just a piece of conduit sticking out sticking out of the shot. And they pretty much just made a cavity in for the light to fit in and more these full size lights. Oh my gosh they just plastered a brass light ring into the plaster and put some silicone in the in the conduit so nothing would leak. I was like this is not okay. No grounding. Yeah. That is funny. I feel in the remodel world. Well, even the building world you really have to be mindful of the longevity of what you're building or redoing so that they don't feel like oh my god. I just spent 110,000 dollars on this remodel and I'm having to pay for something.

16:03You know a year or two, two later. Yeah. And sometimes it's hard, especially with equipment, some homeowners it's like I'll explain exactly everything you just said. And they're dead set very fixated on keeping an old filter or keeping a pump. And I just like having a record of those conversations. Do you have like a do you have like a waiver that you have them sign like hey you decided to keep this. Yeah, so what I do is once the project is signed and we're getting ready to start the project. I like to do a pre site visit where I'll come by rent all the pumps just run everything that we plan on reusing. And I have a form that I fill out with what works with them. J.C. what we're keeping and I have them sign off the bottom of the form. Okay. I like that. That's a great idea. What is your most best string part of remodel work that homeowners rarely understand? The things that can come up. Like I said, you're doing all this work. The people having they love you.

17:06There's everything's going perfect. Yeah. You another $10,000 change order comes up to fix cracks like we might seem like we're just coming back to these cracks. But that is definitely one of the hardest issues to deal with. What remodel trend or short cut do you wish would disappear forever? So on remodels, I have seen on social media and I've heard when I was a plaster, I saw just methods of prepping pools for resurface. There's some companies that just chip tiny holes like that that's going to fear it's bound to fail. It's yeah, it's going to delaminate. And I just I am not a big fan of not doing proper preparation or another thing is since the market so competitive some companies will use very cheap materials for tile installs or coping. And you get cracked ground within a couple of weeks after the pools finished or a year after you'll have calcium bleeding through the tile or just it's just using cheap materials for installation.

18:16I'd rather come in a little higher than my competitors, but be transparent with the homeowners. We're going to use the best materials for all installation and you're going to have something that's going to last. So even though we might be 5 10% or 15% more expensive than our competitors, you're not going to have to spend more money in a year from now to fix all that. How do you feel about water proofing on a remodel? So I've had it where I put I built a pool and I waterproofed it, but then the plaster company I've mentioned, you know, it kind of makes it difficult for them to warrant to the bond of the plaster to the gun. So do you feel that water proofing is essential on every pool or is it something that's more a case by case, depending on, you know, if they have a infinity edge or something where water is prone to seat in and and cause damage. I personally like to to waterproof any parts of the pool that they're where they're styled.

19:18And as far as a more plaster pebbles going to be applied, I tried for the same reason of bonding issues. I try to only do it for infinity pools, pools with troughs to prevent that water seeping through and having calcium. I am. What is a remodel project that you have seen that turned out better than you thought it would? So I actually had a simple remodel that I picked up actually a few months ago, about three months ago, that we were just doing tile plaster and removing all the stone facing on race spa and redoing it with new bouquet can in stone. And I mean, it just surprised me. I thought it was going to be a regular old project and it turned out really, really nice. The homeowner was super static. I got one of the longest five star reviews I've gotten. And it's just that's a good one for the portfolio. I definitely like to show that one off.

20:22What would you say is like your perfect remodel client look like? So my perfect remodel client, I know when speaking to some of my colleagues here at Adams, they say they want people that know what they want to me to me that does not I do not mind walking customers through different options because I actually like that because I could educate them and put in my input and even some of my preferences. So ideally, my deal client would be just somebody that's open to learning, having like going through that education phase. And that they're very understanding with the things that can come up. Yeah. She's coming back to that. My favorite part is always going to be the design part, especially choosing like the coping and the tile and the plaster and then they pick what they want, but I also like bringing what they think they like to the job site. So then we can actually put it next to things to see if it's going to jive.

21:22You know, customers are really, really busy and they don't always have time to go to a showroom. And especially when you're trying to coordinate the showroom person, then me like, yeah, it's difficult. And I think that's why I think it's a good idea to give them like the brochure, but I also like the ones that don't know what they want. And they're like, hey, can you give us some, some samples that you think would work? And then it starts that conversation and then we're able to kind of maneuver it. And I found that clients love that because it just gives them more security that's going to match their house and it's going to match the landscaping that survives the remodel stuff like that. Standards or best practices. Do you refuse to compromise on anything to deal with cold compliance? Obviously, even if you wanted to, you can't and just following all engineering specs to the tea. Like sizes of rebar, just all that. How do you feel when you have clients that don't want to do permits?

22:23So if it's just retiling and resurfacing something that's cosmetic, I'm not completely against it. As long as if we need to bring the drains to code. And that's fine. But to me, anything once we start getting into structural or plumbing gas electric, that's just I, I'm not their guy. Do you feel when you don't do a waiver or when you don't do permits, say on the plaster, the tile? And do you have them sign some sort of waiver that says that they're liable if like code enforcement comes? 100% and then something I also do all our all the contracts I put together. I'll still include all the information that I would for a permitted job in case something were to happen and we are. We need to pull a permit. We have all that on file and it's been discussed with them. Let's see here. How do you ensure remodels meet modern safety and hydraulic requirements, even on older pools?

23:27Or does that kind of go with earlier when you're like, I tell the client they let me know if they're willing to do it or not. And that's just the way it is. Like is that kind of yeah, yeah. Are there any times where you told the client you have no choice? Like this is what's going to happen. Oh, yeah, quite often actually. And what's what's the feedback of those ones? Well, for the most part, it's actually pretty negative because people when when you get a client that's fixated or not doing a permit, they're it's so hard to get them off that. Yeah, yeah, they definitely don't want to. The remodel contractors understand about long term durability. I'm going to go back to using good materials, not not going to cheap route to like they under a bit of job to get the job. And they'll they'll use cheap materials to stay profitable. I'd rather not get a job that but quote it right and sure it's going to last.

24:30Now aside from those things, what would you like to see the remodel side of the industry change? So for me personally, I I've come across other pool contractors that they're mainly in it for the money. And with me being somebody who genuinely loves pools, I wish more people would think of every project they take on as if it was their own pool and their backyard. Like if I wouldn't feel comfortable with a pool that I feel that I created being at my house, then I would definitely not feel comfortable turning that into a client, you know. Oh, yeah, if you can give advice to a homeowner on remodel services, what would it be? So during the design and quoting process, I always tell homeowners to start designing their dream pool, not necessarily focus on their budget. Just design their pool like if if a budget was an issue and to use their contractor or their sales representative who's more knowledgeable on the cost of things to prioritize what they can add and that way they can help them get as close as possible to their dream pool.

25:43Yeah, I think that's a great idea because most people are like, well, just show me what I can afford. It's like, but we want you to like it. Yeah, that goes like starting her up, but that's why finding the right contractor, the right sales guy is super key because and I feel like homeowners should be able to tell with by talking to people how invested they're going to be in their projects. If they get excited and start talking fast, like you know, that's going to be your person. I would say I hope that everyone gets a licensed contractor for even remodels. Yeah, I've seen too many times where people are getting, you know, pretty much bit in the ass because they're like, oh, you don't need a contractor for this. It's like, oh, now I have now I'm screwed for 20 grand or more during that process. Yeah, I just I think there's a lot of misconceptions about remodels and you know, what is a way that you would word? The difference between a remodel and resurfacing.

26:45So resurfacing is to me is just a new plaster, new pebble. Whereas the remodel, it's all the factors, replumbing, code compliant issues, coping tile, just everything to do with the pool, even design, design changes, adding a bar, hot shell, adding some handrails, making the pool more usable, adding features that will benefit the client, like older clients. Sometimes I really suggest them considering handrails or young couples that have small kids. If their pool has the right shape and the pool covers their possibility, I always suggest pool covers or adding a baby fence around the pool. Actually, when it comes to the design process, I treat it like new builds where I do a rendering of what their pool is currently. And then everything that they they want so they can get that visual. That's a tool I think not everybody uses in the remodel world. And I think it could be really beneficial.

27:47You know, when it comes to a pool professional who is looking to get into the remodel world, what would be your advice for them to thrive and get to the standards that we hope every remodel is at. What are some things that you would recommend to a new pool professional or service person going into the remodel world? I would recommend getting some field experience, just seeing how things are built, how the process goes from beginning to end. And that way you'll be a lot more confident. I remember switching over from just doing pebble and plaster. The first time I saw a pool exactly like the one that's in your background just completely torn up, no coping, nothing just dirt all in the backyard. I was very nervous. And after doing it so many times now it's just routine. It's funny as I tell my clients when I do the major remodels with plumbing and everything, I'm like, your backyard's going to look like World War two with all the trenches and everything like you don't have to go in the backyard.

28:50Please don't go back there. Very, very dangerous. Yeah, just say bite of your backyard for a while. Now when you do a remodel, do you give them a timeline of how long it's going to take? Yeah, and I make it very, very rough. I like to, if I say four to six weeks, it'll probably be a project we could finish in three to four. I always try to go a lot farther than what's really going to take to keep everybody happy. My thought process is if I'm able to finish before what I had mentioned, they're happy. I try to make them happy in the beginning and I'll tell them, yeah, you'll be done in three weeks and I don't deliver with that then they'll be upset at the end. And yeah, I just. Well, thank you, Jose, so much for talking with me today. If you have any questions for Jose, just message talking pools and we'll get it to him. And thank you again for being on here with me. Yeah, no, thank you for having me. It was a really good time. So like us, share us, subscribe and we'll talk to you again next time.

30:04I just wanted to give a minute to say thank you for listening today. I'm hoping you enjoyed the episode as much as we enjoyed putting it together for you. Listen, it's been a couple of wacky, crazy screwed up years from pandemic to pooling again. And I just want you to know that we are all in this together. If there's anything that we can do for you, send me an email at talkingpoolsatgmail.com. Again, that's talkingpoolsatgmail.com. We're here. This is your podcast. We are the pool people's podcast of the pool people for the pool people by the pool people's podcast. This one is about you. So thank you for tuning in and listening. And give me a favor. Click subscribe before you go. That way you don't miss an episode.