Power of Man #386 - Redefining Success Beyond the Scoreboard, with Dr. Jack Groppel!!!

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Power Man podcast. If I'm a Rory Park kid and I know, I know

you know that already. I just like to remind myself in you folks how grateful I am to be

sitting in this chair. If you're not out there doing what you're doing, all the like in

the sharing and subscribing, I don't get to sit here and do what I'm doing for a living.

Folks, I am truly blessed and it's because of you. So that's enough of that. I'm not going to

get almost you. We're not going to break into tears or songs or hugs or anything today,

but thank you. You guys all know I love you. Let's get on with the rest of the podcast. You all

know what time it is. I got to take a sip of my preferred beverage. Absolutely fantastic stuff.

And my wife just made a whole fresh pot of this for me tonight. So you know what we're drinking.

That's right. It's Freedom Hill coffee at Freedom Hill coffee on Instagram. Look up and check

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Hill coffee on Instagram and tell them the power of man sent you. Now, let me get one more sip of

this so I can keep up with this dynamic individual on the other side of the table from me.

All right, folks. I'm just going to cut right to the chase. Please welcome to the show the author

of his memoir Mountains Within, which I cannot wait to dissect and hear all about Dr. Jack Gropel.

Doc, how you doing today? Great. Thanks, Roy. Great to be with you.

All right. Wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on. Just in the pre-interview alone,

I think you and I talked about about 50 different angles that we could have we could take you

have an amazing story. And it goes so many different directions and I love it. Let's start with

the book Mountains Within. Yeah. Where'd that come from? What brought you to that? And what's the story

there? Well, I'll try to give you the cliff notes. What happened was I've had this wildly successful

life, professional life, but a really difficult personal life. And we'll peel away the layers of

the onion. And over the last 15 years or so, people have been telling me you've got to write your

memoir. But you see, all they ever saw was the really cool stuff that I was doing. And which is

really, really cool. I mean, really blessed that I've been able to do some of the things that I've

been able to do. I mean, I've had several careers in one life, for example. And it was eight years

ago. And I was on Mount Kilimanjaro. That's my son and I at the summit. And when I was on Mount

Kilimanjaro, I have artificial knees, by the way, Roy. And my son was only 12 years old at the time.

And it was on the mountain that on the third day, it hit me. And I have this the entire introduction.

That's why it's called Mountains Within. I was on Kilimanjaro and I said, oh my god, this is

exactly like my life. I was exhilarating, yet I was terrified. It was, you know, it was, I was,

I was, it was euphoric, yet I was anxious. You know, because here I am with artificial knees,

you take a step in the shale, just slips everywhere. I mean, it was raining and muddy. And the

guide says, put your left foot here and it's 150 feet straight down. And I said, I don't see a

ledge. He said, it's under the mud. And I'm going, well, that doesn't sound right. You know, I mean,

so when I was on the mountain, I said, okay, if I write this memoir, it's going to be the

whole story. It's not going to be just the really cool stuff. I've got all the cool stuff in the book

because, you know, I was one of the first sports scientists in the United States. And,

and I became the founding chairman of the sports science committee for the United States tennis

association. So I really had this really cool career. And, but it really starts as a child.

And that my, I have a wound with my father. And instead of cowering, I said, I'll show you how

good I am and how much value I have. So I, I had achievement addiction, Roy. I had achievement

addiction. I was addicted to achievement. And when I was, when I would receive an award, it was

what's next. And I just got to keep showing dad. And then the marriages stuff suffered. And I

say marriage is plural. You know, so anyway, that's just sort of the cliff notes umbrella perspective.

And let's dive in and wherever you want to dive in, my friend. I love that. And, and yeah,

we've just sort of just scratched the surface, you know, with everything we've talked about already.

Now, the, let's, let's talk about the dad situation for just a second, because you said

something huge there. You know, as a dad wound and you had this, you know, achievement, you know,

syndrome. Is that what you called it? Yeah, achievement addiction addiction. There you go.

The, the drive to achieve. And all of that was driven by showing your dad, proving your worth

to your dad. Is that where that all came from? Yeah, I mean, I, I really do believe I look back

on my life now. And really, I was just a young man and adult looking for love from his dad.

And my dad grew up in the area that, you know, say the words I love you. I never heard those words

till I was 46 years old, which is very different than however,

so it, you know, the start is old. And but my got to understand my father was, is both the hero

and the villa of my story. He's, he's the hero in that he was an entrepreneur. He had 21 beagles,

Roy. At 21 and he ran them in field trials. So here I am in the 50s as a child,

watching my father train these beagles to run field trials. And, and I don't know if you know

how a field trial runs, the hunter, you don't, you don't shoot the rabbit, but they release a rabbit.

And the beagle, the rabbit, and herds the rabbit, and they time it. And how fast they can

herd the rabbit back to the hunter. And it's not a, it's not a little, it's not, this is not hunting

as far as game. It's literally the skill sets of the beagle of the dog. So they're called field trials.

Well, Dad's Kells, and one of his, he named after president Eisenhower. So the dog's name was

Shady Dale Ike. It was a national champion. Ike was the best in the world in the country. And

Dad in 1959, when he did a different job, he was a public schoolteacher. And we moved to the

bigger city of Alton, Illinois, which was around 30,000 people, but Dad couldn't keep the beagles.

So now he tells me we're going to sell Ike. And I'm, I'm, I'm a little boy. All I see is how proud

my dad is, is a bike. And, and I'm going, I don't get this. And then he does, he says, we're going to

drive to Niagara Falls, 59, Rory. I watched my father sell the dog that he loved, 1959 money,

for $900. That's a lot of money in today's money. Yeah. That's several tens of thousands.

That's in 30 to 40,000 dollar range, I think, for a beagle. And, and Ike went on, and when my mom

passed away, I was able to find this on the internet. Ike went on to sire seven other national

champions. And that made my dad so happy later in his life. But, so here I'm seeing this

entrepreneur spirit from a man that I was struggling with. Because when I was six years old,

and I'll just tell you the story real quick, Dad, we were, we had a clubhouse. And dad said,

get in the car. I want to go check the fence line in the back part of the cup property.

So we go there and we get there and he says, stay in the car. He's going to walk back and look

at the fence line. Well, it seemed like an eternity. And it was in the middle of the summer,

in southern Illinois, and I'm dying. I'm sweating. I get out of the car and I call for him.

I don't see him. He doesn't answer. I'm going, well, we're not that far from the clubhouse.

I'll just walk back. Well, you can imagine when my dad got back to the car and I was gone,

the next thing I hear is the car, carining into the, on the gravel driveway,

dad screaming my name, realizing that I had disobeyed him. And he picked me up and I got the

beating of my life. I was black and blue for weeks. But instead of caring Roy, I said, I'm not,

I'm good and I'm going to show you how good I am. And it started right away because I got into

scouts and I became an eagle scout at 13. Now, if any of your listeners have ever been

in scouting, they know that that's unheard of to become an eagle. And by the way, I intentionally

got my eagle one week before my 14th birthday just to prove to my dad that it could be done.

And his whole response was, well, not many people have done that. And not a well done, not a

congratulations, not I'm proud of you. What I heard was not many have done that. And that went on

to become my life. Never had a tennis lesson yet. I'm going to play tennis for the University of

Illinois. He goes, well, if I have to pay for it, you have to study agriculture. So my undergraduate

degree was in wildlife biology, but I made the team. You never watched me play. My father never

came to watch me play. And here I played for a big tennis school. You know, I'll stop there.

I mean, this just keeps going because the achievement addiction went on into my life. I got my

degree in wildlife biology, couldn't get a job, started grad school in population genetics, hated it,

just hated it, Roy. And my sister said, why don't you talk to the people in physical education?

And I said, well, dad will kill me. She says, you don't know that. So I did and they admitted

me to the program. And I fell in love with it. And that's how I got in the field that I'm in.

I my sister convinced me to talk to them. They graciously admitted me to the program. I fell in

love with it. And one of my mentors and I talk about mentoring in my book at the end, the importance

of mentors, Chuck Dillman, Dr. Charles Dillman said 17 words to me. He said, if you apply yourself,

you could become a pioneering leader in the science of tennis performance. And I said, done.

I'm going to do that. And I just made sure that everything I did was quality. And I went on to

become, as I said, the founding chairman of the sports science committee for the United States

tennis association. And tennis took me to 52 countries. That's amazing. That is amazing. You know,

the accomplishments alone, I mean, honestly, the list of accomplishments are longer than my

so I mean, it's incredibly impressive life. But at what cost? Yeah, I was going to say, I think

I understand what you were saying now about your father was the hero and the villain in the story

because the reason you were able to accomplish all this was because you were trying to prove him

wrong. But by the same token, that's not the way to do that. 100%. You know, and I mean, I went on

and I fell in love, got married, probably shouldn't have, because I'd never been role model,

the good relationship between a man and a woman. There you go. But I thought that I was doing the

right thing. It was time to get married. I was 34. She was 22. She just graduated from college.

And here, I'm taking her all over the world with me, take her to Wimbledon. We go to Australia.

You know, then on Valentine, this is all in the book, by the way. It on Valentine's Day,

three years after we got married, I'm thinking everything's fine. I got her man. I got an incredible

jewelry to give her for Valentine's Day. I give it to her and she starts crying. And I'm going,

I know it's touching, right? She goes, no, I'm moving out tomorrow. And I went, wait, what?

And I tried to talk her into going to counseling, but she was dug in that she, and she and by the

way, she and I have reconciled, by the way, she's remarried and she and I have actually reconciled

that we wish we both would have gone to counseling. But we didn't. And then because I didn't go to

counseling, what did I do? I just was looking for love in all the wrong places. I just ran into the

arms of my college sweetheart. I shouldn't have done that. But I did because I'm just trying to cover

the wound. See, there was a hole in my wholeness. That's what I call it. The whole that we're all

whole people, but we've got holes. Right. And how do you heal those holes? And what I was doing was

using women and, and you know, date, I had a black little black book serial, I was a, I call myself

a serial data. Gotcha. Which you wouldn't think is a bad thing, but I understand what you're talking

about. Yeah, for me, it was the hole in my wholeness. Right. Now, and you, that comes from your

father, then, too, because your father didn't have a successful marriage. 100, well, he and mom

stayed together, but my dad was very mentally abusive to my mom. I see. And don't get me wrong,

I love my father, and we reconciled the last 10 years of his life. We were able to reconcile.

But he, I always said, I said to mom two or three times, why are you staying with him?

And she said, I just have to. I have to stay. Okay.

Wow. Okay. I mean, just that part alone is amazing, because most of the men that I talk to who

have issues like this with their father, they don't get to reconcile. Well, the way we reconciled,

I was on the largest speaking circuit in the United States. Never had a speech class, by the way,

but here I am traveling all over the country with some of the biggest names in the world. I'm

usually following Christopher Reeve or Paul Harvey, somebody like that. And I'm preceding the

headliner, which was often either Margaret Thatcher of McHale Gorbachev, President Bush 41,

President Ford, Mary Tyler Moore. I'd preceded her. She was my childhood celebrity crush. That's

a funny story. How I met her when I met her, I totally choked. But, you know, here I am traveling

all over the world, speaking and never, I never had a class, though. I mean, it was just

achieve, achieve, achieve, go, go, go. Okay. We got to back up because you threw that out there

like a little nugget and acted like we weren't going to come back to it. But you're a guy who has

achieved all of these things. I mean, you know, not to mention, you know, playing tennis at a D1

school with no scholarship, walking on, fighting your whole way. Everything else you've accomplished,

multiple marriages, too. And somehow you can't talk to Mary Tyler Moore. I mean, I remember.

Well, and it also was this picture we had this in, too, never had a business class yet,

started a business with one other person and we sold it to a fortune 50 company.

You're making my point for me. Yeah. So here I am with Mary Tyler Moore. And I'm dating Mary,

Mary, I'm single at the time when I meet her. And she was my childhood celebrity crush. And

I'm so excited about meeting her. And I'd been on this speaking tour. We were in the Cal Palace in

San Francisco. And it was sold out there about 15,000, I think. And I knew she was going to follow

me. She was the headliner. And I always met the headliner when I came off stage. But nobody told me

that she was watching me speak on her close circuit television in her green room. So I come off

the stage. And I'm just, I'm literally so Twitter-pated to meet her. And I see her. And we make eye

contact. And all of a sudden it's like, like this from her. And I'm going, wait, wait.

Does she know who I am? What, what, what the hell? And she's walking toward me. And if you ever

watched her on, you're going to hear her voice when I do this. I held out my hand to shake her hand.

She grabs my hand with both of her hands. Oh, Dr. Grapple, you are such a wonderful speaker.

I so enjoy. I didn't know she'd been watching me. And all I had, she's faunting. And I'm going,

oh, Miss Moore, you have no idea the crush I had on you when I was little.

That's good. It's gracious.

That's my head. Like she said, oh, that's nice. But you should have said, bless your heart.

You know, I mean, I had nothing. And she walked away from me. I'm going, you're serious? That's

all you had. You had no game whatsoever. The one woman you really wanted to meet and talk to,

you had nothing. That's a true story. I totally choked.

You know, we all have our insurmountable obstacle, right? We all have our kryptonite.

So apparently Mary Tyler Moore was yours. Yeah, nobody. And I didn't see it coming.

Oh my goodness. There's, there are going to be a few people who listen to this now.

Everybody's pretty much in my age group type of thing. But if there's going to be people

listening to this, we're going to go Mary Tyler Moore. I think I heard of that. You know,

at some point, they're not going to get the reference. But I think she was your crush.

I think everybody, yeah, who ever got to see the show had a crush on Mary Tyler Moore at some point.

That's right. That's a little bit. 100 percent.

For sure. That's such a great story. So, you know, that does lead me to you were on the speaking

circuit. Yeah. And what was it you were speaking on? And how did you get around to do on that?

I was the health and fitness speaker. And the marketing person at our business had made a pitch

to the company. It was the largest seminar circuit that was called success seminars.

And made a pitch to them. They came to watch me speak and they gave me a shot.

And that's that's another story in and of itself because how the brain works, how you how you

actually learn skills like this. So, my first event was in Des Moines, Iowa. And there were going to be

5,000 people. So, let's understand that the largest audience I'd ever spoken in front of before

was about a thousand. And that was all corporate executives. Now I'm in Des Moines, Iowa in the convention

center, 5,000. And I'm going to be following Zig Ziggler. For those of your listeners that might

not know who that is, is literally one of the most famous motivational speakers ever to live.

Absolutely. I'm following Zig Ziggler. And I'm preceding Mary Lou Retten, the famous gymnast.

Now we'd worked with a lot of world class athletes in our work. And so that wasn't that stressful,

but following Zig Ziggler was pretty stressful. And that talk went well. Now let's understand.

The brain gets reconfigured. So, before that, a thousand people corporate executives. Now 5,000

people, Zig Ziggler, Mary Lou Retten. Now the brain gets rewired. So, now you're ready. 5,000

people, Zig Ziggler, Mary Lou, I'm good. Let's go. So, I get a call. We'd like you to speak at our

next event. And I'm going, absolutely. And I'm going, where's it going to be? And she said,

Atlanta. And I'm thinking the World Congress Center, their convention center downtown. And I

said, sure, absolutely. What's the venue? Now, watch what happens now, Roy. She goes, the Georgia

dome. And now the brain really goes into a panic, you see? Because, and I'll try to emulate exactly

how I responded. Where the Falcons play. Where the Falcons play. And she goes, yeah. And I'm going

right away. Then you go from panic to survival. Like it's all about me. How many people? And she

said, we think we can only fill half of it. So, we think we're going to get about a 30,000 people.

I'm going, you've got to be kidding. And still in survival mode, who would I be following?

And she said, Christopher Reeve. And I'm just going, no. Because now, see, you're in survival mode.

And this sounds really terrible. But this is how the brain works. I'm throwing, I started

immediately throwing myself a pity party. Like, I can't do this. Sure. Because everybody's in my

brain. See, this all happens in seconds. So you go from panic to survival. And I'm seeing

everybody cry when I walk on stage, 30,000 people crying. And I walk on stage. And I'm going,

I got nothing. So now I go into apathy, Roy. Now apathy. So I said, well, who would I be

proceeding? She goes, Margaret Thatcher, the former pharmacist, her great Britain. Oh my god.

She has big L on my head loser. You know, and like, who's he across my forehead? And, but I said,

yes. And as soon as I said, yes, it was like, oh my gosh, we got a, we, I got my team. And

we started videoing me because now see, it's no longer the sea of humanity here. Now you're

in, you're up here. You're in the, in the oval. And that, and that was the talk went really well.

We had about, I think, 27,000 that day or something like that. Well, I went well and I ended up

doing it for over five and a half years. That's just amazing. I can use in the United States. Yeah.

And honestly, that says an awful lot about you in the confidence level that you built up for

yourself over all those years, you know, even in spite of not having, you know, the support of

father when you can follow, say, Ziggler, you know, to begin with. I mean, that's, that's just

really pretty amazing. Well, you know, and I say this in the book that, you know, I guess my life,

I've always been a believer in the, the famous equation, luck equals opportunity plus preparation.

You know, if you really prepare and, and when a door opens, are you ready to walk through that

door? And for me, Rory, I burst through doors. You know, when a door opened, I burst through it.

I said, yes, I'll do it. Yes, I'll speak in the Georgia dome. Yes, I'll do it. Yes, let's roll

the dice and start a business. I, and by the way, I didn't tell you this when to get all started.

I was tenured at the University of Illinois. So I went back there and I was the men's tennis coach.

So here was a kid never had a lesson made the team played for the D1 school was in, was in a,

got a completely different field went to Florida State from my PhD was invited back to Illinois

as the men's tennis coach and a professor coached for four years started working with players on

the tour retired from coaching resigned from coaching, but then was was on tenure track got tenure

got a joint appointment in bioengineering. So now I'm at one of the top engineering schools in

the world and then decided I wanted to be a tennis coach. I gave up tenure at Illinois and moved

to Tampa, Florida at Saddlebrook to become the director of player development for the hot

Montana scamp at at my father turns over in his grave every time I tell that story that I gave up

tenure. That's just not a sentence that people utter usually. I gave up tenure. It doesn't matter

what comes after that because people like wait what what yeah I know yeah for sure for sure all

of this because of achievement addiction right right a lot of people have it by the way Rory I think

I think you're right I think you're right I also think that your dad really missed out you know I'm

one heck of a ride. He did he did it was interesting he the day we had the confrontation where he said

the words I love you for the first time we were in St. Louis where I had grown up and we were in what

was it was called keel center keel out of skill center then I don't know what the name is now it's

where the blues play um downtown St. Louis that's where we were and it was sold out in the round

and I was following Paul Harvey and preceding Mikhail Gorbachev in in that arena and mom and

dad were in the arena that day. The first time you've ever seen me speak ever remember he never

came to a tennis match yeah so here I walk on stage and I just followed Paul Harvey and I tell

everybody I tell the audience that I'm from the I'm a hometown guy and you know here I am and

and it was one of the one of the best talks I ever gave in my life I got a standing ovation

that's correct I walk out I meet President Gorbachev when as I leave the stage and I go up into

the the I the corridors and I'm going to sign books now to the people that want books and product

and I see dad and we get a really great picture taking of mom and dad and all of a sudden I said

what'd you think and he goes well son you're pretty good but Paul Harvey was by far the best speaker

the whole day I really can't I have to out of respect I won't say what I said to my father at that

moment in time but it wasn't kind and and it was basically though I'll never I'll never be good

enough and it was at that moment that I said and and that night I remember that's where we lived

I confronted him about he couldn't say the words I love you to me and he said you know how I feel

I said no I don't know how you feel and I made him say it and then he got comfortable and after

that night after that confrontation he was able to say I love you well but I had to confront him

because I wasn't good enough even on that day I wasn't I couldn't be the best speaker that day

yet got a standing ovation in front of 20,000 people who didn't know who I was

okay because you see what I'm that speaker I was a bathroom break worry I mean that's what I was

who I mean who am I Paul Harvey are you kidding me Michael Gorbachev this guy grapple I got a pee

you know I mean I was a bathroom break man so I had like 20 seconds to keep everybody in their seats

so you end up being almost like a stand-up comedian for a few minutes to get everybody laughing

and then and then you got him yeah well I mean it's amazing that he got to see that but you know

what was it that made you stand up to him that day when you hadn't been able to do it prior

I think that was the ultimate thing that I could do I don't I mean here I am preceding the

the former president of the Soviet Union and it still wasn't quite good enough wasn't good enough

and I just said I'll never and I literally said I don't have to please my earthly father anymore

I'll have to please my heavenly father and that was the I gave me peace gave me peace

but I did get in front of him I did that this is no longer about you and me this is about something

bigger than you and me but you got to say the words I love you and he did and he did that night

later not that not it not at keel not at the arena but at that night at home he did say them well

well it's awesome you get to have that closure like I said most men don't get to I know that I know

that that's why I want people to understand my story and it was I think what the key point there is

you may not get the love of your earthly father but you've always got your heavenly father absolutely

you will always have that love absolutely and I mean faith obviously it has been a huge part of your

life keeping you going through all of this well especially in the last 25 years up until then

I was always a believer but I didn't live my life that way I was very I lived a very earthly life

I had a little black book as I told you earlier I dated everywhere and anywhere

as much as it is often right as much as it is often every city in the world for sure what what changed

well my faith changed me initially you know I threw the black book away that night the night I got

baptized in 1999 I threw the little black book away that night I said I don't need this lifestyle

anymore and then the real change the real transformation happened going to China by myself to adopt

my son that was that two weeks alone with this little boy in China who couldn't speak English and

I couldn't speak Mandarin yeah God has a sense of humor he's going to send this man in his mid-50s

to China by himself and this man has struggled with marriages and relationships his whole life

and we're going to put this screaming four-year-old in his arms that hates his guts and we're going to

teach them both how to love each other yeah I mean I was going to say that doesn't that doesn't

happen you know just on its own so what was it that made you say hey I want to become a father now

and this is the method in which I'm going to go do it well his mom and I we were married at the time

and we had three years earlier we had met her first cousin at an event and he was with his young

infant daughter from China and we prayed about it and it was about a year later that we decided

to try it so we got a login date in September of 2006 that's when we got the login date in the

spring of 2007 we get a call from our agency that no parent could be over 54 something like that

anyway I was already over it and but we were but the joke in my family is that we were grandfathered

in because I we already had our login date and then and then in in marcha in the spring of 2008 we

get a call and the call went like this and she didn't mean anything by it the agency but she said

China has really slowed everything down it looks like it could be at least two years before you

get here it is before you get a normal girl we hung up and we're both going my wife what's normal

so we call back and they said well you could get in the waiting child program which is a form of

special needs and I said well we're interested in that and sure enough my son was he was a toddler

already was almost four years old so he's already inculcated into the culture and he was a cleft

palate child cleft palate cleft lip and so he was in the waiting child program we did a letter of

intent and we got accepted in May in May of 2008 and then in August of 2008 we get the call

that we had to be in China on September the 8th was she injured her ankle real badly and had to

have surgery so she couldn't go and I said okay well I'm going to go by myself I'm going to go get

him but then I had to speak I had to speak English but Oxford in England at Oxford University

so the week before I go to China I'm going to England to speak at Oxford and then in the

Heathrow Airport all this is in the book at the Heathrow Airport I'm buying cartons of cigarettes

to give us gratuities to the to the officials in China so I'm buying Syriam the health guide I'm

buying all these cartons of cigarettes in Heathrow Airport come back to Chicago change all the suit

cases take a suitcase of clothing for him and then fly to Guangzhou China for the September 8th

got you day goodness I mean this is quite the the procedure that you're dealing with so now

you mentioned your wife you were married when you adopted your son or you weren't that was my

third marriage okay I just want to make sure that just didn't work out there were there were a lot

of things going on I was gone all the time still but 2008 was a landmark year my father died that

year we adopted my son and we sold our business to Johnson and Johnson so all that happened in one

year and I thought I wouldn't be traveling but I was gone more I was gone a lot actually just the

whole energy thing and then we got we got divorced and we had joint custody but I was sort of

residential and he lived with me and he went to school to high school and I retired from J

and J and I vowed to him that during his high school years I would not travel and I never did I

was at every event for high school everything and in fact in God's perfect wisdom I got a I

would became a professor again at a Christian University outside of Chicago while he was in school

and I was a professor again after I retired from Johnson to Johnson yeah they say that we need

to become the thing that we needed the most and and didn't have do you feel like doing that for your

son yeah may have closed that gap sealed that hole yeah it's too bad it took so long I mean I

you know I apologize to people at the end of the book and the acknowledgments I apologize to

anybody I might have heard because I was driven I was so driven Rory in everything that I did

and again the holes in my wholeness were really really difficult to heal and I think again the

faith component coming back to that and then the adoption and fatherhood healed me as much as

anything and I think I'm still healing I don't think this isn't something where you know you oh

now he's great now I'm still I think we're all healing all the time you want to be growing and you

want to be getting better all the time sure that's fair I think this is a fair assessment of most of

the world but you know you were you've been given you certainly have been blessed in a lot of ways

even though you've overcome a ton of it you know adversity you were given the opportunity to have

that closure with your father and you were given the opportunity to sort of make up for it you know yeah

dad was he was an ordinary dude I mean I loved him but he was ordinary you know the last 10

years of his life he would say I love you before I did he would even bring up he said son I wish

I'd done a better job raising you we would have those conversations that a lot of

adult men have with their fathers and I forgave him but I also was very clear in my own brain

about how I was going to raise my son and I there isn't a day go by that he and I don't

if when we talk I love you as part of the conversation that's you know and when with and training

for Kilimanjaro with him I mean when he went and think it like you see he's 12 years old and

again I had artificial knees and that was a tough trip man that is extremely that's extreme altitude

and to do that with your son and actually make it to the summit it was incredible then two years

later the dude went as a 14 he wins the national championship in AAU karate and I think he was

able to do it because of climbing Kilimanjaro well once you've done that I assume everything

else seems kind of like small potatoes yeah and he's very humble really doesn't talk about it like

we'll I'll go visit him at his university and I'll bring up something about like Kilimanjaro

and his friends will go wait what they don't even know he's very humble which I love about him

given your the achievement addiction and given your relationship with your son and the fact

that you've been able to have so much closure and you know established kind of making up for

what happened with you and your father by making sure that you did these new things it doesn't sound

like he has achievement addiction in that same way of course but it certainly sounds like he's

into pushing himself and trying to achieve higher and higher and higher is that just learned

behavior from dad then at that point from him you think he has certainly seen my life and he's

certainly but he's also I think one of the things that his mom and I always try to do is keep

him grounded he made a decision about his own faith recommandment to faith earlier in his life

and he is just a really solid young man you know he probably likes video games way too much

but and he follows the NFL more than any normal human but I mean he's he's a very bright kid and

just incredible if if he were here right now and if you asked him he and I talk about this often

and we just talked about it not too long ago if you said what's one thing that you learned

from your dad that you'll never forget when we were in China now remember we can't speak

because I don't know Mandarin and he doesn't know English but I taught him to shake hands

I taught him how to shake someone's hand and say and look them in the eye and say hi how are you

and he's got one of the firmest handshakes you can imagine and he's just so grateful that he learned

how to shake hands I mean as simple as that sounds for him it was really meaningful

yeah so you're out there with near replacements and your son is 12 and you decide you're going

to climb Kilimanjaro is there any part of that that was still proving yourself to your dad

oh yeah still oh yeah because you see oh I didn't tell you this because when I was 20 when I was

20 here I am at Illinois and I'm getting ready for I'm a junior and I was injured that year so I

didn't compete so I get this call from dad in like March or April he says tell your tennis coach

that you're not going to play many tournaments because you're you're not going to be able to

I'm going why not you know and because remember we're strange so I'm going why wouldn't I play

tournaments and he goes well you and I are going to drive to Alaska and I'm going what are you

talking about he says well I've always wanted to go you're an eagle scout you you cook I'll do the

dishes I think this is really important for you and I to do and I'm going are you serious you

know I'm going dad how long how long are we going to be gone he's I think we can do it in six weeks

driving in a truck with a covered camper on it like not a camper a truck that has a cover on it

with two makeshift sleeping beds in the in the back and I'm going dad how many miles is this he says

little over four thousand and I'm going dad and I just we'll kill each other he goes I don't know I

don't think so we're going to do this though and I'm going oh so we drove to Alaska and there were

some tenuous times on that trip but the trip to Alaska was the beginning of he and I starting

even though it took 25 years it was the beginning of a reconciliation between he and I

excellent but there were moments man like I tell one story in the book that he was railing on me

one day and I was driving and I and we were on a mountain on a mountainside and I just drove to the

edge and he had a fear of heights and he started cursing at me and say jack pull over and I'm going

stop yelling no pullover I'm not going to pull over I think I honestly think my dad thought I was

going to drive us off the cliff thanks and it our relationship started changing there you go

when that happened yeah defying death can do that to a relationship yeah yeah exactly exactly

the the book and the memoir and all of the stories that are in the book which I'm sure we have an

even you know scratch the surface of just yet but is that your last sort of I'll show you to your dad

no that I think I've healed from I don't need to remember that what happened in St. Louis that

night when I said I on that honor to please you I don't have to prove to you anymore I wrote

this book I really want to help people it's an entertaining book I mean it talks about the

beginnings of sport science in the United States it talks about the Mary Tyler Moore story

so the book is a rollercoaster of emotions but for people that love sport I mean it's this is where

you know like I I was invited I talk about taking films in Madison Square Garden you know and

and and and you know working with some of the top players in the world and and here I am I

one of the stories I tell in the book is I'm in Washington DC and I'm showing all these high-speed

16 millimeter films of world-class tennis players and all these orthopedic surgeons and they're

all salivating because nobody's ever seen this before and I'm walking away and this tall gentleman

stands up and he says could you do this in baseball and I said well I'm sure you can what are you

interested in he says well I'm actually I'm really concerned about the head first versus the

feet first slide now this is 1982 and and I'm going yeah it can be done here's what I would do I would

start I would turn the camera on when the runners at first and then as the runner takes off I would

get the first step and then I'd pan and I'd have a block where it where it stops so it's at 90

degrees to the base path and then I could digitize the slide whether and then head first versus

feet first and we could digitize it and I said who are you by the way because my name is Richard

Corzot on the team physician for the Chicago White Sox oh my gosh and that began and I published

this in the American Journal of Sports Medicine we put we for two years we took we gathered data

on the head first versus the feet first slide we published it in the American Journal of Sports Medicine

but and I befriended Davey Nelson who played for the Indians back in the day was an all-star

second basement and Davey was a dear friend until he passed away a few years ago but Dave Nelson

became a real supporter he at Dave and I were interviewed in the New York Times about what the

future of high-speed cinematography see nobody this is way before video rory yeah that now they

have multi-million dollar video budgets this is way before all that and this is where the managers

are saying and the coaches are saying don't let the players see these films they're thinking

paralysis by analysis they don't want them thinking too much and now look at

how we are with video analysis yeah for sure I mean every team has a video at least one video

person on staff yeah are you telling me that the Chicago White Sox had something to do with the

pioneering of the head first slide I can't say that but we did I mean they had Rudy Law and

Julio Cruz two and three in the American League and stolen bases and we've got we were the first

ones to get really high-good high-speed record I say it we probably you're you can look it up

in the American Journal of Sports Medicine look up Corsod at Gropel head slide baseball sliding

and it'll come up you'll you'll find the article I love that actually I would love if that were

the case I just wish they were better at it that's my team and it's been a while no idea

been a while since we since we led the league in anything so those stories of how I got involved in

sports science and how again luck equals preparation plus opportunity when the door opens

was I going to say to Dr. Corsod no I don't think I can do the baseball no we could do that

sure we could do that absolutely let's do that absolutely I love your attitude towards it all

I mean really and truly so you dad definitely was the hero in the villain yeah he was the hero

in the villain yeah he gave you all this this cuts better go after all this you really did you

really did with when when I saw how he trained Ike the beagle back in how started this that's what

the that was the hero part of you can do you're only limited by your own imagination and within

your god-given talent and the skills you develop you can do anything you want I really do believe

that that's not motivational speak now let's let's be real clear because I don't want your

listeners to think that I'm just some phony some witch doctor out there because Shaquille O'Neal

who's seven foot two and well over 300 pounds couldn't be a jockey in the Kentucky Derby

you know he doesn't have the god-given talent that's what I'm speaking of and likewise

of jockey in the Kentucky Derby couldn't be a center in the NBA right but within your god-given

talent and the skills you want to put yourself on the line and study you could be anything you want

fantastic you could be a professional speaker you could write books you could be an authority

you absolutely could we're only limited by our own imagination

love it great message and I assume that's one of the main messages from the book too sure it is

absolutely love it all right sir I we're definitely going to get into the faith part of this

journey which I know weaves through every single story that we have covered and we're either

going to have you back here doing another podcast if you're up for that I'd love to I'd really

love to do this with you again and talk about the faith component for sure for sure I think it

deserves its own time you know I love that all right but in the meantime while we kind of wrap

this up today the the book more information about you contact you directly how can people find out

more about you reach you that everything well there's I have a website jack grapple dot net it's

j-c-k-g-r-o-p-p-e-l dot net my book is on amazon it's you can see the cover it's mountains within

and it's it's in it's in four different formats so there's an audio book that I narrated

great so people liked the stories I tell the stories in the book it's an e-book it's a paperback

in a hard back a hardcover so and it's available on amazon good anywhere that books are sold

Barnes and Noble good reads but amazon is probably the most popular spot wonderful yeah

but yeah and linked in I'm on I'm very active on linked in my name jack grapple so connect with me

absolutely that's how to follow what I'm doing wonderful just for the record I'm glad to hear

that you did your own e-book because I'm not sure anybody could tell this story and do it justice

the way you are so I'm glad that you did it yourself yeah the the audio book was difficult though

you know the engineer that I had was really great and we made a decision because the the story is

so emotional we only did two chapters a day so that because I wanted to be fresh I wanted my voice

to do fresh for each so we only we never did more than two chapters in any one day of recording

well I mean that's good thinking that's good I needed I needed to be impactful and and I am I

am a professional speaker so I can make I can I can tell it but you still get fatigued so yeah well

I usually go out and try to pick up the books of the folks that interview but I think I think

I'm gonna get the audio book of this one so I can hear you tell this story well I think you'll

enjoy it feedback I'm getting is is that people really enjoy it I would imagine so

all right sir I tell you what I I've thoroughly enjoyed having here and I love the story I love

the mission and I love the message that you're putting out there for everybody and I'd just like

to say for your veterans thank you for serving I'd like to say that I'd like to add on to what you

said when we started thank all of you for serving and bless all of you just thank for that I know

they thank you for that yeah they don't get enough of that so all right well the author of his memoir

mountains within doctor jack gravel sir thank you for being here for doing everything you've done

and I'm really looking forward to talking with you again I look forward to it what a pleasure thank

you so much thank you folks it's been another incredible episode of the Power of Man podcast

the reason we bring on such powerful men with such powerful messages is because we are united

in hoping that you can find your power so that you can be a more a better protector better provider

a better leader tomorrow than you are today so that you can be a better father a better husband

a better man tomorrow than you are today and the reason we want that for you is because you

matter because you have value and because at the end of the day you're worth it and at some point

you just have to believe it until next time