Power Play #2182: April 1st deadline on Ottawa-Alberta MOU looms

We have an old air traffic control system. This is why he talks about that. We need to upgrade.

The NTSB provides more details about the tragic air-canada plane collusion at LaGuardia airport

that left two pilots dead and dozens more injured. We're going to bring you the latest

information on that investigation in moments and check in with CTV's Adrian Gogreal live

on the scene. Then deadline day for that Ottawa Alberta MOU. We are in intense discussions

right now. I was talking with Creamersmith yesterday. I am confident we share a goal.

The clock is ticking towards an April 1 deadline for Ottawa and Alberta to agree on key parts of

their MOU sign last fall. Can they meet the deadline and what does it say if the two governments

can? Corey Hogan is the federal energy minister's parliamentary secretary and I'm going to ask

him that coming up. Plus, decision time for the NDP. We have a resurgence of the NDP,

some resurgence of the threat from the left, given the momentum they have right now.

Momentum?

Federal New Democrats are days away from choosing their new leader who will be tasked with rebuilding

the battered party. Our front bench is set to talk about what the future could look like for the

party. Daniel, Tenshikir Chambers, Kathleen Monk and Laura Stone are all here just a little bit

later on in the show first though. Controllers should have all the information and their

tools to do their job. All the information they need, we've recommended SDX but you have to

have information on the ground movements or whether that's aircraft or vehicles moving

on the airport in taxiways, on runways they should have. All the information, this is 2026.

You know, the secretary talks about upgrading our air traffic control system. We have an

old air traffic control system. This is why he talks about that. We need to upgrade.

We will start tonight with an update on the air Canada plane crash at New York's LaGuardia

airport. We're learning more from investigators about what happened in the minutes and seconds

right before the crash. Late Sunday night in air Canada jet collided with a fire truck on runway

4 killing two pilots and injuring dozens of others. In an audio recording an air traffic

controller is heard telling the truck it can cross the runway but then repeatedly says stop.

Today the chair of the National Transportation Safety Board says air traffic controllers were

using an old system that she stresses needs to be upgraded. When asked whether the crash could

have been caused by the controller having more than one job, she said she couldn't answer that yet.

And our Adrian Gobriel is live for us right now at LaGuardia Airport. Hi Adrian, what do we need to know

about what the chair is conveying tonight about this investigation and what really happened in

those last minutes? Yeah well the chair is conveying lots of concerns. One of those clips you just

played there for viewers Vashi. You know one of the most revealing things that came out of the NTSB

update today is that that fire truck that port authority fire truck didn't have a transponder

inside of it. A transponder that in late terms would talk with the technology that LaGuardia airport

has here in place. It's an extra line of defense, a lecture line of communication for those air

traffic controllers to understand exactly where vehicles and planes are on and around the tarmac at

all times and again that port authority fire truck that the air can to flight hit head on did not

have one of those transponders. Now we also know that the data voice recorder that black box

that has been retrieved. They're beginning the analysis of the flight data recorder today.

Now when it comes to the cockpit voice recorder Vashi we're expecting a transcript to be released

tomorrow. And I also spoke with the chair of the Canadian Transportation Safety Board today.

He confirmed that three Canadian investigators are here now on runway four at LaGuardia Airport

today working in lockstep with their U.S. counterparts.

Okay Adrian, I appreciate the update. That's our Adrian Gabriel live for us at LaGuardia airport

in New York turning to news here in Ottawa now. On April 1st and April 1st deadline is approaching

fast for key elements of the Ottawa, Alberta memorandum of understanding or MOU which was signed back

in November. It'll mark one of the first major tests for the renewed relationship between those

two governments by next week both levels of government are meant to reach agreements on

methane emissions, a carbon capture plan and industrial carbon pricing. Energy Minister Tim Hodgson

was asked in an interview with Bloomberg Television about whether the deadline will be met.

We are in intense discussions right now. I was talking with Premiers Smith yesterday.

I am confident we share a goal of building the biggest carbon capture project in the world.

It's called the Pathways Project. We take 16 million tons of carbon a year out of the atmosphere.

When we do that we have the ability to add millions of barrels a day of production

and build that pipeline to the west coast.

Our team reached out to Alberta Premier Daniel Smith's office to ask if she believes that April

1st deadline will be met. They told us negotiations are ongoing and constructive and are close

to in announcing an agreement on methane. The statement goes on though to read in part.

There is still more work to do on the carbon pricing and Pathways Project pieces.

As Alberta is committed to agreements that protect affordability for Albertans and enhance competitiveness

for industry. The statement goes on to say we'll continue to do our best to meet the April 1st

deadline for all or most of these four milestone agreements and continue to prepare our

government's west coast pipeline application for submission by June. Cory Hogan is parliamentary

secretary to the federal energy minister. Hi Mr. Hogan pleasure to welcome you back to the show.

Thanks so much for making the time. Yeah good to be here. I have a number of questions on that

MOU but I just wanted to start off because a Reuters report just came through out of Houston where

I know the minister is meeting with a number of people representing the sector and Reuters is

reporting that the Trump administration is working with our country on permits required for a

proposed revival of the part of part rather of the Keystone XL pipeline. I know that the minister

has talked about the prospect of that pipeline but I just wondered from your perspective if you

could confirm things are that formally being worked on. Well I can't confirm that but I can tell you

that Keystone XL and the energy security it would provide the United States has always been one

of the cards that Canada has in our deck as we start thinking about trade deals with the United

States and look as we start thinking about some of the exposed industries and some of those that

are really being hit hard by tariffs. We've got to have things negotiate with and energy is one

of those things. We are an energy superpower and it would be foolish of us not to think about

the opportunities that might provide. How would you characterize where the discussions are at then

from the Canadian perspective? Well look I think it's all tied up into the bigger conversations we're

having about trade in North America and that's probably where I would leave it. What do you mean

all tied up if I could just follow up finally on this subject and ask like is it a part like when

you when you incorporate it with the broader trade discussions and I will point out we don't have

any idea where those standard government has not really disclosed you know where things stand

with the United States at all other than the Cosmo review is coming up like in what way is Keystone

part of what we're negotiating? Well conversations are always ongoing at every level. The conversations

have never stopped even if the formal Cosmo review hasn't actually commenced in any kind of meaningful

sense but what I'm talking about is when we look at Donald Trump and his approach to things it's

often a deal-making approach and to make a deal you've got to come to the table with things and

and we do know that the United States is quite reliant on an energy from Canada energy from Alberta

energy from Ontario energy from Quebec and we've got to talk about energy as one of those things

that we we come to the table with. Now that doesn't mean we're not also going to be taking work to

continue to diversify our electricity and energy exports but it does mean we've got to think

about it as an asset that we can use. Okay I want to ask about those efforts to diversify and where

that Alberta federal government MOU fits into the picture. Premier Smith today out of that same

conference provided a statement to us in which she said of the four things being worked on in

advance of the April 1 deadline it's the industrial price on carbon and the pathways project for

carbon capture that remain with the most to be worked on essentially one other one has already

been you know already being agreed to the methane stuff she says is imminent it's the other two

that that require more work would you agree with that assessment? I'll let the Premier Smith's

assessment stand on that but certainly I you can point to the impact assessment act equivalency

that was agreed to a few weeks ago work on methane is progressing very very nicely there are a lot

of technical details that are involved in this it's important to kind of step back and say

the MOU set overall conditions but there are a lot of ways to implement those conditions and

and everybody knows where the end state is but we've got to talk about some of that detail work

there and takes a little bit of time it takes a little bit of time but we are all driving hard

towards that April 1st date. I have to respectfully challenge the sort of idea that if it takes

some time it takes some time investors you know investors say time is is of an essence right as

of the essence and I'm wondering what message the fact that both your governments can even meet a

deadline you set yourself sends to those investors who are waiting for certainty before making

decisions about expanded export capacity expanded investment in the oil patch. I think those

investors would be very heartened by the fact that we've exceeded the deadline we've gone faster

than the deadline and things like impact assessment methane as the premier has said is looking very very

strong and premier Smith is at the table the government of Canada is at the table and we are

getting very quickly down to our brass tax on that and look we're all pushing towards April 1st

we're all looking to get an April 1st deal but if people are at the table having productive

conversations we're certainly not going to let that be an arbitrary barrier to what I think is an

important finalization of the details of this deal. I guess though again I would respectfully

push back on the idea that it's arbitrary right it's a deadline that you are government set itself

and so did premier Smith in this agreement and when you say that investors should be heartened

what evidence do you have that they are I can point to evidence that they are not just in the

past number of weeks CNRL delayed its jackpine project until there's more regulatory certainty

and an end in their view to the industrial price on carbon for companies that are engaged in carbon

capture the CEO of TC energy says the regulatory process is still too long even at the condensed

version that your government is putting forward he says it should be six months not two years

the CEO of embridge is also against the carbon tax and wants a full repeal of the tanker band

and only then might consider being a proponent for that pipeline what evidence mr. Hogan do you

have that investors are heartened well that that's going to show up in foreign direct investment

which is at its highest level in 18 years for example we do know that these are the kinds of

things that are causing positivity in the overall sector I think we have to acknowledge that we

are of course in a moment as we talk about the pathways project for example where proponents are

going to draw hard lines draw hard bargaining positions we don't negotiate in public on those things

but we were also practical we know sometimes things are stated in firm ways and that is how deal

making begins but it's not how deal making concludes so when you say that you're not going to

negotiate in public I mean what you're negotiating over let's take one of those items is the industrial

price on carbon what is your government's position on that does it have to increase to a hundred

thirty dollars a ton so that that's been negotiated we we agree is the governments of Canada and

Alberta that it will go to a hundred and thirty dollars a ton what's happening right now is the

technical work behind that there are a number of different models to make an effective price of

a hundred thirty a ton there's also the transition to getting to that model because we all know for

example the Alberta carbon market is pretty flooded right now so how do we rationalize that over time

like this is nuts and bolts stuff we all know where the end destination is premier smith prime

minister carney there they've been very clear on that and and I think that as we work through those

technical details there's not going to be any surprises and I think industry largely appreciates that

so the premier has been less clear and I remember because on the day of the mo you I even

interviewed her and said does this mean for sure it's going to this price is stipulated in here

and she said well what it means for sure is that we're going to negotiate with an end date of April

first in mind on the point of I think you're getting at around you know companies oil companies

basically involved in pathways seeing this moment as something that they can negotiate around

some of those companies are asking for if they are a part of carbon capture the industrial

carbon price essentially not to apply to them is that something your government's open to

if they're part of carbon capture they're not releasing carbon and they don't pay a carbon price

so I think that that's kind of almost circular logic but they you know they're obviously

interested in how they can do that in the most economic way possible and allow them to still

continue to invest in oil and gas and and grow their positions and those are conversations

we're keen to have with them but the government's been very clear carbon pricing action on methane

pathways these are three legs of a stool that allow us to be that energy superpower in the 21st

century I think that part of what those investors are also or those companies are also talking

about is more certainty when it comes to some of the regulatory impediments that they see I named

one in the case of Enbridge and the tanker band I know your government has put forth that

C5 is kind of your way around that right should it be required on an ad hoc basis C5 would

get around something like the tanker band again most oil companies are saying that just simply

isn't enough certainty to be able to back something like a new pipeline is your government open to

you know getting rid of that tanker band altogether versus just relying on C5 which I would

also note has never been used though it was passed on an emergency basis last year

well so the MOU says if needed there will be an exemption to the tanker band to allow a pipeline to

be built this was a voluntary ban from the 80s that's been extended and put into law in the 2010s

it's it's not a new thing and it's certainly not even a trudo error thing you know in the broadest

sense but we are going to be pragmatic about how we approach that we're not looking to wholesale change

legislation we're looking to make sure we're doing very targeted interventions to make sure things

can happen but I also want to underline it's a very big coast and premier smith talked about five

different ports that the government of Alberta is looking at when they're working with proponents

to bring forward a pipeline proposal which they've been planning to do and continue to plan to do

in June and not all of those routes would require a tanker band to be modified even so it was

voluntary but it was codified under trudo so it very much I think in the view of a number of

Canadians is a trudo error thing and it is one that we consistently hear from those provinces that

are resource producing like Alberta in Saskatchewan and from companies that would be investors in a

pipeline going to the west coast is an impediment to their willingness to back something like a pipeline

I take your point that it may not even be necessary if the pipeline doesn't go to that exact spot

but if companies are saying within an existence they aren't going to come forward and build that

pipeline doesn't your government have a problem do you not kind of have to pick a lane

well I think we have the starting point of a conversation in that case but we have said that we're

looking at pragmatic ways we can defend both the coast and Canada's energy interests which include

diversifying energy and and let's see where that conversation goes but how is that going to make

Canada how is a conversation going to make Canada and energy superpower something the minister

in the prime minister have said explicitly on a number of occasions like how does that work

well every negotiations a conversation every time we have a trade deal that's a conversation

conversations the root of this and and we are happy to have those conversations we're happy to

look at reasonable ways we can move forward but we also do know that we've got we've got a broader

public that also has an expectation we do this in a very pragmatic way but a very responsible way

and we've got to consider the responsible component as well I do take that point on that and

certainly I spent a lot of years covering the environmental policies that the previous government

put forward that government was not saying it's explicitly as yours that you're going to make

Canada and energy superpower you know the criticism from the opposition is it's all conversation

in nothing has actually materialized again how well just having a conversation about you know

regulatory irritants actually get that pipeline built well I do understand that's the opposition's

point of view but we've also got a lot of growing proof points that things are working including

that increase in foreign direct investment including the fact that in 2025 Canada created it

more jobs than the United States not adjusted for population like we are we are on a go here and

we're going to get things done and that is that is ultimately going to be done best if we can do

it in balance and we can make sure we can bring people on board with us and that is how things get

built in Canada you know you survive the winter together you work together and you're not going to

you're not just going to default to anything goes because we've seen anything goes means nothing goes

and we've seen projects fail because they fail to meet those standards of environment indigenous

consultation of the way it's a fair point and so is FDI except in the last two months when you

talk about jobs versus the United States we have shed tens of thousands of jobs in the last two

months essentially almost erasing the gains from the first part of the year when you talk about

economic growth it's significantly slowed in the last quarter of the year but if we're talking

about energy and we're talking about Alberta in Alberta jobs actually grew in those same two

months and unemployment dropped by 0.4 points that's that's fairly significant and and this is

all tied to the same story it's a story of Canada being an energy superpower and what's the story

of that energy superpower providing Canada immense benefit okay I'm going to leave it on that

note Mr. Hogan I appreciate your time as always thank you so much thank you

Cory Hogan is the parliamentary secretary to the federal minister of energy we'll take a quick

break here on power play but coming up after that break it's budget day in Manitoba and

Premier Wahb canoes government has announced that it's going to remove the PST from all groceries

extended to all groceries even prepared food I'm going to go one-on-one live with Premier Canoe

in just two minutes stay right there

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and all yours no passports required just press play tap into mating Canada now on iHerRadio.ca

or the free iHerRadio app the budget that you're about to hear is going to remove the PST

from everything at the groceries so I'm going to make less money for a lesson on the

director of the district chicken a prepared salad in a case of bubbly guess what no more tax

he actually did his own grocery shopping he would know that a lot of grocery items are already

exempt from PST but maybe under him you will save seven cents on a can of pop or you'll save

sixty-three cents on a chicken rotisserie or almost speaker it is budget day in Manitoba and

the provincial government has unveiled a suite of new measures aimed at addressing affordability

notably if the budget passes there'll be a removal of provincial tax on all food from grocery

stores beginning July 1st should the budget pass by then the budget also includes an increase

on property and renter tax credits and free transit for kids it all comes with a projected deficit

of four hundred and ninety eight million dollars while canoe is the premier of Manitoba and he's

with us live right now hi premier it's good to see you thank you very much for making the time

thank you sorry i'm just laughing at our opposition leader calling a chicken rotisserie or whatever

so okay let's let's pick up on that point because i think certainly i heard your

interview this this morning about removing the PST and it garnered a lot of reaction

even all the way over here in Ottawa i heard the opposition's criticism there which is essentially

this will not make a salient difference in in the affordability issues for the affordability issues

that people in Manitoba face what is your response to that criticism does he have a point

definitely not very out of touch the average family hundred dollars you'll save off of this

change that we're making here today plus a big $1,700 assist on your property taxes plus transit

is going to be free for people under 18 in Manitoba we're doing a lot but just think about it

you're a busy parent you're at work you're rushing home to put food on the table you grab one of

those combos at the grocery store whether it's Costco or Safeway rotisserie chicken a salad a

case of drinks right now all of those things are taxed in Manitoba and the grocery prices are

hurting people so we're taking action and you know just to be clear this is not the only step

that we're taking we're banning real estate covenants that are preventing competition in the

grocery sector in Manitoba we're banning predatory pricing so online services to charge you

a different price based on your personal data we're banning that we froze the price of milk and

then today yeah we are going to take the PST take the provincial sales tax off of everything

at the grocery store and so for the average family out there in the suburbs it's been dealing

with rising cost of living this is one direct real way that we can help so we're very proud of it

a couple of questions on that again as soon as we heard that we actually took it up to parliament

hill because you know that grocery prices are an issue for people right across this country

we asked the federal government would you consider doing the same where GST is concerned

we only got one MP on the record who who said no our focus is on the the GST rebate that they

announced that they characterized that way and they announced earlier is this something you think

the federal government should follow suit on and have there been any conversations to that effect

well I would encourage them to look at it because we're talking about it being targeted at the

grocery store right so this is something that is going to help the lowest income Manitobans when

you're talking about removing a sales tax on essential items like food from a grocery store this

is a progressive way to tackle the revenue system in our province certainly so I'd encourage the

the federal government to do it I mean just ask yourself if you're that parent is trying to

rush home after work and put food on the table you're dealing with the cost of living

if we save you a hundred bucks over the course of the year buying something from the daily

counter at the grocery store on the way home isn't that making your life better isn't that helping

you with the cost of living after everything's been going up and up and up I mean Donald Trump

is not helping us with that rising cost of energy so the fact that we can do one tangible thing

in a sequence of other tangible things to increase competition to drive down prices and to lower

cost directly I think this is something that everybody should be trying to do for their citizens

you mentioned the cost of energy premier and I did want to ask you about that as well I know that

likely when this budget was being designed you know the the war in Iran had had not necessarily

broken out we're only the entering the fourth week but it's had such a pronounced impact on gas

prices on average a price across the country but in Manitoba specifically over the last month

you I think it was in January as of January 1st 2024 lifted the provincial portion of the gas

tax for a year is that something that you should be considering again given what people are

dealing with at the pump in your province well and then after that year we reduced it permanently

so again like our whole thing here in the Manitoba government is what are tangible ways that we

can help people and we might not be able to do everything all at once but does saving you a little

bit of money when you go to the gas station help yeah a little bit this freezing the price of milk

help yeah that helps a little bit more this taking the tax off of prepared items rotisserie chicken

salads from the grocery store does that help yeah that's a little bit more there's a little bit of

help for those people who are paying mortgages or rent with these tax credits and tax refunds

that we announced today do those things help yeah so again the cost of living is such a big issue

and provincial government can't necessarily get its hand around everything but by doing a little

bit of action here a little bit of action there putting it all together we're finding a real way

to give people in Manitoba relief from high prices and then adding the transit piece on top I think

is is another affordability measure for parents who won't have to buy a bus pass for the kids to

get to school but on top of that it's good for the environment and on top of that it's going to be

able to to help future generation build that habit of using public transportation in a way that

maybe we've been moving away from as a province so I think there's a lot of ways that we can help

with people's number one economic issue which which is affordability and we're very very proud

to be showing that you can do that in a progressive way to say we're given help for lower income

people we're given help for the middle class and along the way if you're somebody who's super

wealthy well you've been successful and lucky in our society so we're going to ask you to make

a contribution so that those who need a bit more help can get that bit of assistance

and I certainly wouldn't take away from all that you just laid out that your government is doing

to address affordability my question though was whether or not you would consider

given how quickly the price of gas has risen another suspension not just the reduction that you

mentioned happened after the overall suspension of the provincial portion but whether you would

consider that again the number one way we can lower gas prices right now is to stop this war

in Iran so let's stop the war in Iran Donald Trump has no reason for this conflict nobody in

Canada can explain it the idea that we might be sending Canadians to help with the

straight of four moves which was already open before this misguided war began doesn't make any

sense so I would love to see gas prices go down but the number one way that we can have

cheaper gas prices in Canada right now while still having revenue to pay for the healthcare

that is the number one priority of Manitobans is to end the war in Iran so I would flip it back

on the folks in Ottawa and say let's end the war in Iran and I'd flip it back on the folks in

DC and say let's end the war in Iran I promise you should anyone from the the White House come on

the show that would be one of the first questions I would ask you with the prospect of that

and certainly I have put many questions to the federal government around their own policy where

that is concerned but with great respect premier it is not our decision about whether or not to

start or end that war that is the fact the the set of facts that we are dealing with and that

consumers as a result in your province and other provinces are dealing with as well am I to take

from your answer and I respect what you said but am I to take from that that right now you are

not considering any suspension of the provincial portion of gas on attacks on gas pardon me

I wouldn't say that you know like removing the gas tax in Manitoba is probably the best

thing that a government in Manitoba has ever done in history it's just put real money back in

people's pockets the average blue collar person who doesn't get involved in the theoretical

discussions of talking heads and institutes and you know think tanks and stuff like that it just

helped the real people be able to deal with the cost of everything so I would never rule it out

but the reality is we had a dollar seven gasoline before Trump decided to try and distract

from the Epstein files now we got a dollar seventy three gas in the city of Winnipeg so I mean

should we starve provincial resources that we're going to go use to add four thousand health care

workers as we announce today or a new emergency room or should we just go to the cause of our economic

problems which is Donald Trump and is a terrible war in Iran like there is such a thing as a

just war this is not a just war this is a dumb war it needs to stop that would help people with

the cost of living are you concerned at all about statements like that impacting negotiations

that are going on right now that have a here we're we we're we're we getting we feel like it should

be said were we getting a fair treatment from Donald Trump like prior to this moment so let's just

call it what it is they started this war as a distraction from the Epstein files there is no

reason for this war they want to talk about terrorism okay well what about Saudi Arabia the

number one exporter of terror in history they want to talk about nuclear programs many other

countries out there they could be going but they started this war as a distraction from a domestic

political problem and I don't think we as Canadians should be caught up in you know the economic

aftermath of that at the same time that we be asked to contribute to bailing them out of this

issue doesn't make any sense to me so I think that we should just call the situation as we see

it and say yeah this is having a real impact on the cost of living in our country and stop the

war guess who else would benefit Americans American consumers would benefit from a lower cost of living

as well too okay I'm gonna leave it on that note I'm out of time as always I appreciate your time

premier thanks for making it all right thanks a lot Wab canoe is the premier of Manitoba the province

delivered its budget today we'll take a quick commercial break on the other end of that break

federal conservative leader Pierre Paulier is calling on some significant ministers in the prime

ministers cabinet to resign we'll talk about how the government is responding and those calls

with our front bench next Dan molten secure chamber it's Kathleen Monk and Laura still we're back in a moment

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the current liberal prime minister take responsibility fire that minister the justice minister

in the immigration minister since 2025 100% of the discrepancies reported were

followed up it's unfair for the for the prime minister the liberal prime minister to force that

minister to respond for all of the mistakes of her two predecessors whom he has promoted we will

stand up every day and be proud of the liberal charter in standing up for Canada and building Canada

fire exchange there in the house of comments this afternoon as conservative leader Pierre Pollyav calls

for the resignation of three significant liberal ministers specifically he's focusing on a new

report from the auditor general this week which found weaknesses in the integrity controls for

the international student program the opposition leader says current immigration minister

Lina Diav as well as former immigration ministers champ phrasier and mark miller who held the

file under former prime minister Justin Trudeau are all responsible for what he characterizes

as a reckless mismanagement of Canada's immigration system so how's the government going to respond

to this let's bring in our front bench former senior advisor to the liberal Ontario governments

of Dalton McGinty and Kathleen Minne Dan Molten is here he's now a partner with Crestview

strategy next to him that's secure chambers he worked in prime minister Stephen Harper's office

before becoming a policy advisor to the international trade minister Kathleen Monk here in studio is

the former director of communications to the late Jack Layton she's now the principal owner of

Monk and associates and rounding us out this evening Laura Stone is the Queens Park reporter

for the Globe and Mail hi everybody good to see you Laura I'll start with you this this auditor general

report came out yesterday basically showed that like none of the fraudulent case potentially fraudulent

cases were investigated why do you think today mr. Pollyav is saying these ministers have to go

well I think quite frankly he smells blood I mean I think it's been brewing for a while with

minister deabb that she is a bit weak certainly on the the communications side of things I think

this is now the second or third time that the conservatives have called for her specifically to

resign and you know I think the conservative's recognized that the immigration is a pressing issue

that Canadians care about this they wanted reform in the system and that's why the liberals have

attempted to do that but I think there's some kind of resentment there from the opposition that

you know the Carnegie government is trying to brand itself as as Canada's new government as they

declare in all of their press releases and and very much trying to distance themselves from just

in Trudeau's regime and and the conservatives are trying to remind people that a lot of the same

ministers are still in place a lot of there's a lot of the the same problems that haven't been resolved

and they they sense weakness here on the immigration front and so I think that's that's why they

they've been questioning the officials the ministers about this we didn't hear much about Phoenix

pay system or the RCMP report this is focused specifically on immigration and I think the conservative

sense you know that that the government has a lot to answer for here I will say though that you

know when an opposition leader calls for ministers to resign you can bet that that or be fired you

can bet that that likely won't happen right I mean this is not they don't take the mr.

cardi the prime minister is not going to take his his cues from from pure poly heaven so whether

there will be a cabinet shuffle at some point or ministers will will be moved around I think many

people expect Diad Will but you know he's not he's not going to do it the day after poly of

tells him to Shakir why do you think on this issue in particular the conservatives feel like

immigration were largely the conservatives feel like they can more successfully tie this government

to the previous one I think a few I think Laura's bang on that they do since a week minister I think

immigration has been an issue that Canadians have you know had issues with for for quite a while

from Trudeau to now and I think there is generally a view that you know immigration put a lot of

strain on our infrastructure whether it is health care whether it is jobs on what not and they're

bringing that narrative forward I think ultimately when they see the current minister I think Michelle

Rupert Gardner was on your show two or three weeks ago of actually I believe she actually

called for the minister to resign then and I think ultimately they view it as this minister doesn't

have a command over her file doesn't really have command over the numbers and if you look at

question period today the sheer number of conservative MPs ever talking about either asylum seekers

international students immigration generally speaking she's clearly the target and they feel

that with sustained pressure she's very vulnerable to Laura's point she probably won't be

shuffled out immediately given that peer is calling for this but I think ultimately you can see

her not being in cabinet at some point given the fact that not only is she kind of weak at this

file but I think there's reports as well that a lot of liberal MPs don't even give her their

full endorsements so they definitely smell blood in the water and I feel like immigration is an

issue where Canadians have felt the pressure on what it's under their infrastructure and peer

driving that forward and continuing that theme of focusing on domestic issues and yet we have

like evidence through statistics Canada this week Dan that the population is declining in this

country that the the changes to immigration policy are having a germane impact to the level

of population what does that tell you about the minister in particular like ultimately will she

need to go I think the conservatives need to be careful how far they want to push on this one

right I appreciate the perspectives of my fellow panelists here on the fact that

Canadian public opinion has shifted on this issue over the last few years there were obvious

problems in temporary immigration permitting in this country whether it be through international

students or other program channels that the government looked to address a few years ago and

and Canadians were at a shifting public mood on this topic I don't think Canadians have completely

given up on the idea that this is a country of immigrants or that legal immigration channels

aren't an important part of our economic growth and our long-term prosperity as a country

and so I think the conservatives need to be a little bit more cautious about how far they want

to push on this one Pierre Paulier was that a few weeks ago sort of slamming immigration

benefits and things that refugees are entitled to in this country I think that's a cautious

political ground for him I think like the more and more that liberals are able to compare him to

Republican or Trumpian tactics around immigration the weaker he will be and so I think they've

got to be a little more cautious how far they push on this one as for the government I mean

that the response today is you know we knew this was a problem we we moved to deal with it

that was a few years ago and and it's obviously had you know impacts on the system the

outer generals pointing out at challenges that the the system has gone through we've moved to act

on them I'm not sure there's as much raw political material here as the conservatives believe

there is or that Shakira Laura have indicated there is Kathleen the the numbers are going down

that's that's a salient point on the the point from the AG though around the integrity of the

system though right like following up on fraudulent claims that kind of stuff that seems to

be something that would still be relevant yeah and that's the thing the outer general gay

Pierre Paulier and the conservatives the perfect political hook to bridge back to issues that

they want to go on which is liberal mismanagement incompetence and the fact that they open the doors

of floodgates to to immigrants that have now the conservatives would argue have undermined our

healthcare system our housing availability and other services throughout Canada but so where I

think that the conservatives have a point that you know we can be compassionate we can also be

competent I think that's fair that the government should be more competent what they're doing

but to be clear they are trying to take down ministers as Laura said and not just one in terms

of the immigration minister they want to take out actually the previous immigration ministers

in Mark Miller and Sean Fraser and I would point out that if you study Pierre Paulier as I do

as I study all politicians but particularly the leaders Pierre Paulier has had a thing against Sean

Fraser particularly for many many years so taking out these particular ministers would give him

you know great joy but to back to my point about compassion versus competence there's not a

single Canadian you can find that wants to replicate a U.S. style ice in Canada to usher out you

know whether it's student immigrants or other refugee claimants that have maybe stayed too long

I think I'm pretty I'm on safe ground saying that we don't want to replicate that here but I

think that Canadians do want our values and a competent system of immigration represented and

clearly the AG's report shows that that is not happening and that is a failure okay we're going

to take a quick commercial break the front bench is sticking around we're going to turn our attention

to the race to get an NDP leader that's next stay right there

I know the Liberals would want the NDP to disappear because then in the House of Commons

and across the country there will be nobody standing up to hold them to account. I think the NDP

have a have a place to play in Canadian democracy. Well a multi-party system is good I'm not a socialist

I never have been. If there are any disenchanted NDP voters they are obviously welcome to

concert a party of Canada. Do you think there will be any surgeons of the NDP some resurgence

of a threat from the left given the momentum they have right now? Momentum?

It's decision time for the NDP the federal new Democrats are just days away from choosing a new

leader which comes nearly a year after jug meet Singh resigned following his party's crushing election

defeat the worst result for that party in its history. The new leader will be tasked with rebuilding

the party which only has six seats in the House after Laurie Idlow crossed the floor to the Liberals

earlier this month the front bench is back Captain Monk Dan Molten secure chambers and Laura

Stone Kathleen will start with you okay like what's going to happen and how big of a deal is this

for your party? Yeah I mean it's been two and a half years since new Democrats have gathered like

this for a policy convention the last time was in Hamilton in in October 2023 so it is a big deal

in that sense gathering only to you know too over policy ideas and rebuild the party after that

disastrous and historic loss in the last election but who is going to become leader you know

and it looks pretty you know like maybe it's leaning towards Avi that like a 75% chance that he

might take it on the first ballot but it is a preferential ballot and so people we know that

there haven't been any really open declarations between the top three three runners about who's

endorsing who if they want their voters to go where but I think it could go a few more ballots

and that would make it more interesting we have one front runner Heather McPherson who obviously

has a house seat in parliament could like his head to ground running and then there's Avi Lewis

who you know a real outsider without a seat but with a history a family history in the party and

really running on a hardcore left agenda and then there's Rob Ashton who's been really appealing

to kind of private sector union workers and and really actually trying to breathe some new life

is more of a change candidate than you've seen in Heather for instance but what's going to happen

we're not going to find out till Sunday so it is going to be a nail-biter we're going to have to go

through the whole weekend we get there live on question period tune in at 11 a.m. Eastern but

yeah it's the real question I would say is that people should look towards is what happens after

that 11 a.m. Eastern vote is it Eastern am I getting those times right I think so it might be

central yeah but and and when we have declared a leader what happens with the provincial sections

so that's what I'm looking for is like how the party moves forward as a party which is a federated

party and keeps those provincial sections whether it's you know government in in BC Manitoba

elsewhere opposition in other parts of the country and moves forward as a party and kind of looks

towards growth I'm glad you brought that up because we actually reached out to all the provincial

NDP parties and we're going to throw up a graphic right now of basically who was even attending

a number of the provinces Dan where resources for example are very important so think Alberta

thinks Saskatchewan the leaders of those of the NDP and those provinces will not be attending

the conference what does that tell you looking forward for example if in particular Avi Lewis who

is you know not in favor of resource extraction or new resource extraction wins yeah I mean I think

it signals a growing rift in the party right I mean the Democrats have been squeezed out on either

side by the liberals and the conservatives at the federal level right conservatives have taken a

lot of ground from the Democrats among working class voters among private sector unions and have

come to be seen more and more of the party that you vote for if you're a blue collar worker or

you're working class on educated across the country liberals have squeezed out the new Democrats

in our urban centers and in the last three elections have become the dominant party of Canada's

urban centers this is a challenge new Democrats and I think they're they're confronted with a

bit of an existential crisis here that isn't being played out in any specific terms but is being

played out in this leadership process as Kathleen indicates it does seem more and more likely that

Avi Lewis who represents the farthest far left of that movement is likely to win and that is

going to be a problem because I think it challenges the new Democrats about who they are what they

represent in this current moment your indication there of a schism and who's attending among the

provincial leaders is I think reflective of that not just on natural resources issues but who are

the voters that this party is going to speak to moving forward I don't want to suggest new

Democrats are down and out I think political parties get counted out way too quickly I think we

all remember when liberals federally would never win elections again after 2011 they're doing

pretty well right I think it's it's too early to say the new Democrats have no future in this

country and I do think the liberals need to keep an eye on ensuring that they continue to be a

party that progressive voters in Canada's urban centers do want to cast a ballot for but I do

think that the new Democrats have a hard road ahead if they select Avi Lewis I think he can certainly

find a seat in parliament I'm sure at some point whether or not they end up as a party of just

a handful of seats or just his seat I think remains to be seen secure what do you think about that

yeah I mean first I'll give a shout out to Kathleen I think this has been one of the most low

profile leadership races that I've ever witnessed in my life but Kathleen did a great job of like

running through you know what the what the kind of terrain is right now so thanks for that I

think ultimately for for the NDP I think they're probably going to suffer a similar fate to the

Ontario Liberals where you know it's going to be years of rebuilding years of of fundraising

probably even years of new leaders to kind of find out who you are and how you're branding yourself

I don't see whoever they select as leader right now having any kind of meaningful impact in the

short term to change the kind of trajectory of what we're seeing in federal politics at this point

obviously I could be wrong I'm not super familiar with all these key players here but if what

Kathleen and what Dan is saying is that Avi Lewis is the guy to win and he's the guy that's more

on the far left of the party I'm just not sure how that helps your party be super competitive at

the federal level and it's going to be a situation where you have the conservatives who

have done very well with you know the working class blue collar private union kind of workers

I'm not so sure going that far to the left is going to win those voters back and again it's good

for my party if you're going to be slicing votes on the progressive side of the liberal spectrum

and allowing us to kind of keep those working class voters and flip those seats like we did in

the last election that can only play out well for the conservatives in the next federal election

accepted to press NDP vote ended up not working out so well for the conservatives in in this last

one Laura last word to you on the prospects for for the NDP moving forward

I will look I think a lot of viewers were probably watching that Bob can you interview

leading into this panel and thinking now that guy would be a great candidate for for federal leader

and maybe and maybe in in a couple cycles that's that's what's going to happen I think he's

kind of prime for something bigger but I do think there's an opportunity for for the NDP on

on the progressive or left side of the spectrum I mean prime minister carney has been able to

to bring over a couple of NDP into into the ranks but he's certainly moved the party more to the

middle I think there's there's certainly an opportunity to talk about those really kind of

left leaning ideals like taxing taxing the ultra rich as as obvious Lewis talks about about

public grocery stores about about a public housing I think there is something to be said

for those disenchanted voters who who would not go to to the liberals under a marked carney

government you know how long that rebuild takes it's it's difficult to say but I do agree that

it's going to be a few election cycles I think until worse we see the NDP really bounce back but

it's kind of an exciting time for the party because I do think they're going to be they are going

to be taking the party in a different direction and into a place that maybe voters are the

public hasn't seen for the past few years and that could be exciting for them okay I got to leave

it on that note I'm right out of time thanks guys appreciate a great discussion as always Dan

Walton secure chambers Kathleen Monk and Laura Stone our front bench we're back in a moment

I did want to let you know before we go tonight that there is still a lot of reaction of course to

new developments out of that plane crash at LaGuardia involving an air Canada plane new details

released by the NTSB when they provided an update this afternoon we'll be getting reaction

throughout the evening and into tomorrow of course right here on CTV news channel I'm going to

leave power play there I'm Vasya Kapelos I really appreciate you watching we're back in the

share same time same place tomorrow have a wonderful rest of you

I'm Luke Wilson join me each week for film never lies since retiring from the NFL I've had a lot

of my mind now got my own show so if you're tired of lazy takes if you want honest conversations

join us each week film never lies available on all TSN platforms in the iHeart radio app