Power Play #2256: EU chief opens door for Canada to become associate member

0:00Hi there and welcome to Powerplay. I'm Bashik Pelos in Ottawa on this Wednesday tonight to be an associate member or not to me. I would like to work with you on opening the door for Canada to being the first associate member of the European Union. EU Chief Ursula Von Der Lann wants Canada to become the group's first associate member, but just days ago from Mr. Mark Karipport, cold water on the idea of Canada's seeking membership, despite detailed reporting indicating otherwise. In moments, I'll be joined by the ambassadors of two EU member countries, Germany and Ireland, then Conservatives Converting. Our mission is to save you money, save your job, keep you safe, fix immigration and put Canada first. We have a plan to do it. Conservative Party leader Pierre Paulie, I've just finished addressing his caucus in British Columbia,

1:03where MPs have gathered for a two day meeting. Will he be able to unify his party and convince his MPs he's still the best person to lead them? Our front bench panel is set to weigh in on that question, Sharon Carr, Louis Hammond, Districts, Air Cabruities and Rico Walts, well be with me. Coming up, plus, want to buy an airport? We will make sure that this is not increasing costs and Canadians. He's privatizing airports that should have been done years ago. Prime Minister Mark Karipport wants private investors to take over operations at this country's four biggest airports, but opposition leaders are worried that can be increased costs for Canadians. One of those opposition leaders is NDP leader, Avi Lewis. You'll be here very soon, first though. This is not a partnership against anyone else, but for our common strength. In short, we want to bring the relationship with Canada to the highest level possible. And, dear Mark, I said we must urgently reimagine our partnerships, so I would like to work with you on opening the door for Canada

2:15to being the first associate member of the European Union. We start tonight with a very clear invitation. As you heard there from the European Commission's President for Canada to become the EU's first associate member. Or so, Lavandreland delivered those state of the Union remarks. As Prime Minister Mark Karni looked on, Karni is in France this week in an effort to secure a stronger alliance with Europe on areas like trade and defence, and in other parts of Europe as well. I should mention, just this past weekend, however, the Prime Minister denied very detailed reporting from the Wall Street journal, citing multiple sources that Canada was pitching potential membership. CTV National Correspondent, Rachel Iello, is on this trip with the Prime Minister. Rachel, explain what's going on here. Yeah, hey, Vashi. So, my read on this is that Canada and the EU are in a bit of a situation where the EU is struggling to define the relationship or where they want to take it. Seems the EU as European Commission President Ursula Lavandreland outlined today

3:16want to call this new relationship and associate membership of the EU. And she fully invited the Prime Minister to that in her address today, which Mark Karni fully embraced in the moment. Though, according to his office, Karni would prefer to call this a quote, unique alliance. But for many Canadians, that's really just semantics. It's all really a question of what exactly will that mean for them. Canada's incoming ambassador to the European Union, Jonathan Wilkinson, was put up today to try to parse this out for us, deal with what Nomenclature actually describes the kind of deal there after. Here's what he had to say. We are not looking to be a member of the European Union because that is a sovereignty issue and people give up certain portions of their sovereignty. But at the end of the day, what we are looking to do is get as close as we possibly can in manner that's going to actually strengthen all of our respective countries. Now, the devil will of course be in the details of any, if any, concrete deal is reached by the

4:20end of this trip, which Vashy, we are not anticipating. Really, it seems officials are signaling that that could come to fruition a month from now when the Prime Minister hosts a Canada EU summit in Montreal. But we'll see tomorrow when Karni takes a stage at the European Parliament, what pitch he has for the membership about why taking this relationship to the next level now is a good idea both for Europeans and Canadians. And then of course, Vashy, expect reporters to press the Prime Minister for specifics when we get a chance to. Vashy. Thanks so much, Rachel. That's our Rachel ILO reporting from Manchester with me now to talk more about all of this is a special panel of two ambassadors of EU member countries, Matthias Lutenberg, is Germany's ambassador to Canada. And with me here in studio is Ireland's ambassador to Canada, John Concanon. Hello to both of you. It's great to see you. I appreciate you making the time. Ambassador Concanon, I'll start with you. Did the remarks from President Vonderley and come as a surprise to you at all today? Well, I think what today was a

5:21huge day, a very, very, very important day. And I think it's building on some very strong foundations of Europe, Ireland, but Europe in particular in Canada coming together, building on a very successful CETA trade up of 75% across the Union in Ireland. It's nearly 200%. So what we're seeing is really a big leadership moment from President Vonderley and say, look, we want to work closer together. And you can see, you know, the interesting thing in the chamber today when you watched us was that sustained round of applause at a standing ovation for Prime Minister Karney, but really it was a standing ovation for Canada because there is huge appetite in Europe to engage with Canada, both business-wise, politically culturally, deep, deep, deep, deep history. And I think this is just the next chapter. Now, how that chapter is going to be written, as yet to be said, there's a lot of detail to be worked out, but I think it was a big moment, a big leadership moment for President Vonderley and a big leadership moment for Europe. And I think it's a really, really positive day. Let me pick up on sort of that standing ovation and in particular the degree to which Ambassador Lutenberg, the EU is looking

6:26to welcome Canada, because there is some reporting from the financial times today that that classification of associate membership is not necessarily warmly received by everybody that amplifying the relationship could be, but not necessarily that label. What do you, and what does Germany think of that label? Well, first and foremost, I would like to add my voice to what John just said. I mean, it's really it's a unique week also for the European Canadian relations. And the wording, of course, President Vonderley, with all our authority used to the term of associate membership, that term doesn't really exist in the EU treaties. It's something where also the German government would maybe have a second look at, but what is more important is really how can we align even closer, how can we bring Europe and Canada together? And this is a very special moment indeed. And we have already started so many initiatives and we are about to start even more on them. We're looking forward to Prime Minister Connie's speech tomorrow. And then of course the summit later next month. Ambassador Concanon, do you think that this type of conversation that we

7:28are having tonight or the experience that they had earlier today would have taken place if not for the change in leadership and posture in the United States? Well, that's a really tough question to answer, but what is clear is that there's a very there's a pattern here as in in Oaf of Canada over the last number of years is emerging as one of the most consequential countries in the world. It's standing up for what it's what it wants in the world in terms of diversifying its business, building you alliances. Here we today was all about Europe, but we Vesy ourselves in Ireland in June, Prime Minister Connie came over. I was a fantastic visit, but at the core of it was a new strategic partnership between Ireland and Canada where we looked at a whole range of innovation, research, artificial intelligence and all these areas of collaboration. We saw it at a one member state level in the European Union today. We're seeing it on all 27. So there's a real dimension of look. Let's you can see Canada's let's make this happen. Looking earlier this week, the investment conference in Toronto, today it's in Europe looking to build the relationships. All of this says that

8:29this is a country looking outwards, looking to build alliances. It's hugely positive. It's very constructive. And yes, there's so much to be worked out in this, but I think it's something we can both Europe and Canada can celebrate today. Ambassador Lutenberg, I know that the commercial interplay between Canada and Germany and Canada in the EU more largely has expanded over the last year. I think it was looking at statistics that showed 2025, Charlotte showed like more than a 30% increase in Canadian exports to Germany specifically. If we take that aside for a moment and we know defense is obviously an area of cooperation, I think Canadians are looking at this prospect and asking what could it mean? Could I travel easier? Could I go work in Germany or Ireland easier? The Irish and the Germans come here and work more easily. Would I be able to travel more for all those kinds of questions? Do you have any concept of what this new status, if it is achieved, might offer? I think the concept really has to be developed jointly by the EU, by EU member states,

9:30by Canada, and then we'll take it forward step by step. But we have achieved already also bilaterally, it's quite remarkable. I'm here already in Montreal, the All-in, Iconference for Germany is the guest of honour, and we are just so pleased to see how German AI companies and Canadian companies are working together. And this is just one of many examples where Germany, where Canada, where the EU and Canada move closer together, and we think that all of these trade-related issues, but also in terms of digitalisation of our countries and Europe and Canada, I think there's so much more that we can do in the chief jointly together. And what about you, Ambassador, Concan? Is there a specific, you know, if they were to come to you or the government in Ireland and say, what would you like to see out of this if it is a so-called unique alliance, beyond just amplification of the kind of activity that already exists on the commercial side? What would you say? Well, it's a great question because that's really where is the meeting all of this. Looking at it from an Irish perspective, we're a small trading nation.

10:32We focus on a small, certain number of really high-value sectors, particularly semiconductors, medical devices, pharmaceuticals, and looking at the trade opportunities with Canada are immense. Ireland is now Canada's eighth biggest investor, believe it or not, and we're seeing huge engagement across both countries. We've about a hundred large-scale Canadian companies in Ireland at the moment, the likes of open text, who did just this summer, made the biggest ever technology announcement of a partnership between Ireland and Canada, TD Bank, Bank of Montreal, Shopify, and so on. So Ireland is really a trusted bridge into Europe for Canadian companies, and we see the opportunity to broaden that out. Broaden the opportunity and the two-way investment. Like, our investment levels into Canada have gone from the tenth biggest to the eighth biggest. We have about 500 firms operating in Canada, but we've about a thousand firms in the United States. So we see huge opportunity for more investment. So over the course of this next quarter, we'll have more trade missions coming as well. Our colleagues, like Germany, other European Union ambassadors and states, so a lot of our opportunity here, but when you bring it all down to brass tax,

11:35if I see it's about values, and why we can work together. Yes, shared history, yes, common understanding, but it's core values. We stand for democracy, the rule of law, multilateralism, this huge affinity between our countries. You talk about connectivity, enormous connectivity, air connectivity. So, looking to the future, there's a real sense of opportunity and hope and possibility when you think of the relationship between Ireland and Canada. I hate to be not as rosy, but it made way, as Ambassador Conquennen was describing the value alignment, which is also something Ambassador Lutonberg, the Prime Minister has talked about very frequently when he invokes Europe or various European countries. I mean, there's an example in your country very recently where a lot of the values that Ambassador Conquennen just outlined are not shared by a party that was ultimately successful in a very significant state level election. What could you tell Canadians tonight who are not as positive that all of Europe will share those values moving forward all the time? First and foremost, the federal government in Germany stands to the values that we share,

12:40and I think democracy is one of the key values here. And what we've seen in Saxon, Anas Exony, and how there was a democratic election, which was won by a party, which has so far not played any major role on the federal level, remains to be seen how the next elections are going, of course, but I would say that you don't need to be concerned about where Germany is headed. We're not only sharing the values, we're also sharing the interests, and we're interested in matching in terms of trade, in terms of where we want to take this planet. Then I think Germany and Canada are still at the forefront. However, of course, we are taking all these election results very seriously, but it's only two million people in Germany in this region who had cast their votes, and we have to be realistic about where Germany is, the federal government is positioned at the moment and there wouldn't be too concerned about where this country is going. Okay, I have to leave it on that note. I'm out of time. I appreciate both of you making time for the conversation. Tonight, thank you Ambassador Lutenberg and Ambassador Kahn Kahn. Our

13:40front bench will be here just a little bit later on in the program to dig into the prospects of Canada becoming a so-called associate member of the EU and how Prime Minister Kahn denied initial reporting suggesting so. Sharon Carr, Louis Hammond, Erica Brudy, St. Métrie, Soudison, Rico Walsh, will all be here a little bit later on. First, though, the operations of this country's four biggest airports will soon be for sale with Prime Minister Mark Carney signaling his government will open that up to private investment. The feds insist it'll be good for consumers, at least ministers did today. Indie P. Leader, Avi Lewis is not convinced that'll be the case he'll join me live after a short commercial break. The hottest songs of the year from the biggest names in country. Good on you food. The Canadian Country Music Awards live from Saskatoon September 19th on CTV and Crave hosted by James Parker Bend with performances by Dean Brody. Daniel Towne. The rec laws and more. The biggest night in Canadian Country Music, the CCMAs,

14:46this Saturday at 80's Stern Six Mountain on CTV and Crave. I think it's fabulous. You know, I have to give credit where credit's due. The PM's on fire, he's moving, he's lowering taxes. Like we've done for years, he's privatizing airports that should have been done years ago. We will take that money and we will reinvest in regional airports. We will make sure that this is not increasing costs in Canadians at our four major airports, but also in our different regions. One day after pitching, opening up the operations of Canada's four largest airports, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Vancouver, to private investors. The federal government, as you heard there, is trying to reassure Canadians the cost of travel won't increase. Though, premier Ford, as you heard there, likes the idea. Not every politician is convinced. Avi Lewis is the leader of the federal NDP. He's with us live right now. Hi, Mr. Lewis. It's good to see you again. Thank you very much for making the time. I've actually let's do this.

15:47Okay, so I there we highlighted a conservative from Ontario, a federal liberal, but yesterday, I also spoke to someone I had assumed would be opposed to the idea. One of your provincial counterparts, the premier pardon me of BC David Eby asked him if he's opposed to the idea of private investment, particularly in Vancouver's airport. He said he was not in principle. In fact, he was supportive of using the proceeds of sale to help support smaller, more regional airports. Is he wrong? I went to YVR this morning. I woke up this morning and I was like, we're totally against privatizing airports. The history in Australia and the UK and other countries, cost consumers and travelers more. It costs the public purse in the long run. It doesn't matter if we retain the asset in the long term. They're like 99-year concessions or long term leases. Like the 407 highway in Toronto that Mike Harris privatized in the 90s, tens of billions of dollars made by a private concession. A highway that's so expensive, only wealthy people can use it. And you have an express lane for people who can afford it.

16:50And everyone else is stuck on the 401. Is that the future of our airports under privatization? So I went to the airport this morning. Now, super unscientific survey, I could not find a single person who could even answer the question, why are we even doing this? People are Canadians are wondering, what is the need for this? What is the impetus for this? And they're very, very, suspicious of who it's actually going to benefit. We know that the major private equity funds, I was talking to some Americans who do not, we do not agree politically, their anti-immigration, their Trump supporters. But when they were like, well, who could, who would be doing it? Who would be running this beautiful airport? And I was like, well, BlackRock was there at the private, at the investment summit that the prime minister called and they were like, oh, those guys are evil. So Americans know what happens when private equity gets a hold of a public asset. They squeeze it. They milk profits. They hike prices. There's nothing we can do. It's a natural monopoly. Mark Carney doesn't have a mandate for this. He didn't run on privatizing airports. I believe that it was the goody that he dangled to get all those big money dudes in the room

17:56in the Toronto investment summit. Because big capital funds, wealth management, sovereign wealth funds, they love airports because they are stable profit extraction for decades and decades. These are essential public assets, essential public infrastructure. They should remain in public hands, whether it's more accountability, there's more safety and security. I have a friend in military intelligence. I could just hold on to your hats. Yes, I do. And he was saying, what, what from a security point of view, private operators for airports? Are we serious? This is a, this is a just another gift to corporate Canada or actually in this case to foreign investors of a cash printing machine. And our airports work. There's no need for this. There's no, we're not starved for capital. Otherwise, how is the government spending all the money that it's spending on pipelines for the oil industry on $300 billion of incentives to big corporations that are on the table? That's a huge amount of money that the government

18:59apparently has access to. But we got to sell our airports because we need capital. There's a lot there to unpack. And I'm going to start with just a very basic challenge. Are you getting ahead of yourself? And I ask that with great respect because I listened today for example, as Melanie Shelly was asked repeatedly by reporters, what kind of guarantees or regulations will be put in place in order to ensure that for example, airline prices don't go up because I know you're saying the airports work fine. I think a lot of people already find them very expensive and the cost of flying in addition to that very expensive. And she used the model of Heathrow as an example, which I looked very closely at. And that concession or that lease does come with very specific regulations, thanks to a regulator, which sets a maximum price that they can charge airlines, sets a minimum level of service, and has actually even been adjudicated at a different body and ultimately come out on the winning end. Like that airport on the face of it does not seem like a failure. It does not seem like people going through there are being gouged.

19:59Are you not getting ahead of yourself, presuming that any contract for a concession put in place would not be able to stipulate all the stuff that you're worried about? Not at all. That's one example. I have an exam in the Heathrow case in detail, but I did read the Canadian Labor Congress report that just came out a few days ago about the experience of privatization in other countries. And in Australia, for instance, it's exactly the same situation. The Sydney airport, they're the private concession operators had to make commitments to sustain the employment levels at the airport. The minute that requirement expired, they fired 40% of the airport workers. There are 52. But the requirement existed? The workers at our most biggest airport in Canada at Pearson Airport. These are major employers. Look, when you privatize whether they're long-term care homes, we're a disproportionate people in the pandemic died in long-term care homes that were privatized, a much higher rate of mortality or whether they're parking meters in Boston or whether they're the 407 in Toronto,

21:01the private concessions have to extract profits from public assets. They will either squeeze the workers or they will squeeze consumers or they will do both. It's how they make money. As you point out, things are already expensive and not fed airports. In the Sydney example, they almost doubled the price of parking. I parked at the airport at YVR for an hour and a half to talk to people about this question. I paid 40 bucks for parking. Private operators will have to increase the fees. Otherwise, how are they making money? There is no need for this. And I think the prime minister is out on a limb here. I do not think the Canadians are ready for this. There's a reason why liberal governments in the past looked at privatizing airports and didn't go through with it. And I cannot find an example of a privatization of a major public asset, whether highway or port or airport that I've looked at that actually was a good deal. The 407 in Ontario privatized under my carus in the 90s, the government made about a billion and

22:01a half dollars when they first sold it. That asset is worth 40 billion dollars now and they've had decades of profits. Oh, and it's another 70 years left in the long-term lease. I took the highway, that highway once. When it first opened in the 90s, I paid my $15 bill for a three-exit trip. And the bill chased me around for years. I'm like, I paid it. I paid it. I keep calling them. I paid it. But that's the thing. They could do your driver's license in Ontario for their own mismanagement of a public highway. And now we have a highway for it to be... I understand that. I wait for everybody else. I understand. Part of the interruption. I just want to make sure we get a few questions in here. I understand the concern. I understand that. That's okay. I understand. I get it. I understand people who drive on the 407 and feel that that is the way that is unfolded is unfair. I totally get that. But that's a bad deal that the government made at the time. When you referenced the Sydney airport, for example, those layoffs occurred once that requirement expired, which means there was a contract... Once there was a contractual obligation in place,

23:03that didn't happen. I still don't understand how there cannot be contractual obligations placed on a concession that do ensure the kinds of things that you're laying out are addressed. And if the Prime Minister does feel like there needs to be more incentive in the window for capital to come to Canada, like why inherently is that such a bad thing? If our pension funds are making money for our pensioners by operating airports in other countries, why wouldn't we look at the possibility of them doing so in Canada? There was no need for this. We're still missing the why. There's been no answer, apart from this vague theory about asset recycling where we sell public assets in order to buy others. The government of Canada, provincial governments, crown corporations, utilities have the ability to finance major infrastructure projects with the lowest interest rates available in our economy, much lower than private players. The government has the capital to do all kinds of big projects that it is currently embarked on. At every level of government in Canada,

24:08there is no reason been offered that we have to sell our airports and risk bad contracts and rely on the good faith of future negotiators. There has been a desire expressed by the captains of Wall Street, by the CEO of BlackRock, by the Saudis and Singaporeans and pension funds and massive players in the city. Sure. Those pension funds have been chasing higher returns in other parts of the world. There used to be requirements that RRSP's, for instance, one on other savings vehicle, had to be a certain percentage, 20% of what are had to be invested in Canada. We could actually bring tons of capital home through the simple act in this moment when we're under attack as a country of the government using its regulatory powers, not to hand $300 billion of corporate welfare to already profitable corporations and the biggest private equity players on earth, but to actually

25:10deploy those kind of resources behind the public good. Where is, for instance, the emergency summit for working people? Where is the pandemic level spending? $300 billion in corporate sweeteners that were put on the table in this investment summit and the mega deduction and the rest of it for profitable corporations and the biggest financial players and the biggest financial markets in the world who don't need more of our money. All that public money is being put on the table for those folks when we're in a cost of living crisis in Canada. And we're getting distracted by arguing about privatizing airports. Instead of asking the government, where is the money for the people? Where is the emergency summit for the cost of housing, for the price of groceries, for the suffering that is going on among the people who actually work for a living, not get the red carpet rolled out for them by the government at the heights of finance and industry. That's what we need to put the focus on right now. We're getting ready for another parliamentary session with there are going to be more huge changes. We're hearing omnibus bills that are going to restrict the rights

26:13right. More special economic zones like the globalization imposed on developing countries in the 1990s, where regulations are suspended, where the government wants to goose the profits of big corporations. We need to slow down and try to pull these things apart and actually check in with Canadians. Is this where we want our country going? One last quick example, the Stellantis plan. I got to go. I'm so sad that time. Very quickly. Very quickly. Stellantis is selling the saddle plan. Good by 3000 union jobs. Instead, it's going to go to a company that's making armored vehicles ordered by Israel sold to the Saudis ordered by ICE in the United States. Brampton, the government is not calling an emergency summit for those auto workers. Instead, our future is selling armored vehicles to ICE and Israel. Slow down Canada. We need a conversation about where all these big changes are taking us. I take your point on that. I will point out that there is a big emergency fund for those sectors, but we'll take, we'll save that for our conversation when parliament resumes. I appreciate you making the time, Mr. Lewis. Thank you.

27:13Thanks, Fashie. Thanks a lot. Obviously, this is the leader of the Federal NDP. The conservative caucus, meanwhile, is gathering over in BC. What does Pierre Paulier have to do in order to unite his party and set them up for that fall? Sitting, Mr. Lewis just referred to a parliament that gets underway on Monday. Our Abigail Beeman, who's in Penticton at that caucus retreat will join us after a short break. Plus our front bench will be here. We're back in a moment. The music you love. Your favorite radio stations. Everywhere you go. The podcasts, everyone's talking about all in one place and it's free. Whatever you want to hear. Listen anytime, anywhere. Music, radio, podcasts, unlimited audio. It's on the free IHR radio app. One app. No subscription. Always free. Grab the free app. Everywhere you go. Always free. Download the free IHR radio app today.

28:19We need to put Canada first in this time more than ever. The decisions for our country, though, must not be made in Washington, Beijing, or Brussels, but by Canadians here at home. We obviously believe that we have to trade and talk with China. It's one of the most amazing civilizations ever, but we do not believe in a strategic partnership for a new world order. With Beijing, I'd regime that the Prime Minister called the biggest threat to Canada only a year ago. Here, Pauli, I have just last hour addressing his caucus as they gather for two days in British Columbia. That's where we find CTV National News Correspondent Abigail beam in live in Pentect and Abigail set the table for us. What should we expect and how much political pressure is Mr. Pauli facing? I think the answer to that is a lot. You did a great job there setting it up with those clips from his speech, which sort of highlighted some of the new things we heard, especially that comment on China

29:20really stood out. But otherwise, it's the same messaging from Pauli, in terms of what the conservatives will focus on when parliament comes back this fall. That's the economy and saving jobs and the affordability issue. And Pauli, I've continued to repeat that issue. What was interesting for me to watch in that room was the mood of the crowd. I would say the room was about, or there's about 80% of caucuses here. The room looked a lot emptier. That speaks to a lot of the disorganization we have seen from the party sort of around this event. But the crowd that was there, it really got the sense that they were making an effort to show the leader that they were on board. It was not the most enthusiastic response or crowd that I've seen in covering events like this. Speaking to a lot of conservatives on their way into caucus, they talk about a united front and being united. But I'm also speaking to a lot of sources not on camera who tell a much different story.

30:22And they all talk about division in caucus. That ranges from a more gentle, you know, we have some challenges, or this is a tough time for the party right up to someone who talked about an extremely fractured caucus. One of the biggest issues there where you see division is how to respond to the American president and the trade war. One of the times that Pauli received a standing ovation from caucus during that speech was when he mentioned Trump by name saying, you know, that we shouldn't just shut up and be quiet about Canadian voices and Canadians stories until Trump goes away. But the challenge for Pauli going forward as we head into that fall session is to find a way to punch through, to make his party stand out and to unite that caucus. One other thing I'll mention is that we had some questions answered from deputy leader Melissa Lansman, who at first when pressed about caucus division said the strategy is the same. Nothing's going to, nothing, or their focus

31:23remains the same. But then sort of on the about the third round of questions, she said that yes, there are changes. We'll see some of those changes today and more changes when we get back to Ottawa. So I will be watching to see what exactly that is if, if any changes as they unfold. Great. Thanks Abigail. Appreciate your reporting Abigail Beeman for us in Penticton, BC. Now let's bring in the front bench to get there. Take Sharon Carr. It's a partner at Henley Strategies and former deputy chief of staff, former finance minister Bill Morno. Erica Barudi is this president of the Alberta Enterprise Group and former principal secretary to Danielle Smith, the premier of Alberta. Demetri Sutis is the former communications director to prime minister Steven Harper. And here with me in studio tonight, Louis Hammond is the former senior advisor to finance minister Francois Philippe Champagne when he was at industry. And also with us in studio is Marieca Welch is a senior political reporter with the global mail. Hi everybody. Good to see you. You know, I have memories, Louis of covering caucus, conservative caucus when they were at 40, 45 points in the polls and the room was electric at the time. Clearly from Abigail's reporting and what we could see, you know, through our eyes and through the through the camera,

32:26it's a different scene. How do they, is there a way to set themselves up for any kind of success in the fall? Question is, how big does the whole have to be in the cockpit to realize that the plane is going down, Bashy? I mean, you know, I think I quoted Winston Churchill here last week saying, you know, when you're going through hell, keep going, it seems like every week the road through hell for Pearl, he is getting longer and longer and longer. I think he's pretty much becoming irrelevant. He's become inaudible. And this Harper thing didn't help last night. I mean, you know, you've got this icon of the conservative, conservative movement. He's now the best buddy of Mark Carney. He gives a speech in Toronto yesterday agreeing with Barcarny on pretty much everything. And this comes a few days before the House resumes. On the day that he's having his caucus in BC, certainly doesn't help. Look, bottom line is Canadians don't want to hear whining and they don't want to hear problems. They've got enough problems for now. They need solutions for some reason. Pure quality evidence is just unable to be constructive. Unlike other conservatives, whether, you know, you're talking about Aaron O'Connor, I know they're no longer in politics, but still. I mean, you know,

33:28they're still conservatives. Jean-Charit-Rais, Aaron O'Toole, Jason Kenny, James Moore. They're all being constructive when they're talking about this. So I don't know if any of them could win a conservative leadership. Probably not. But all this to say that I think that pure quality of if he wants to be audible again, if he wants to break through is going to have to start people, how is he going to have to start telling people how is he going to do better? Just telling us that the other guy is lousy and he doesn't agree with him is just not a guy. It's not going to cut it anymore. I want to pick up on your point about the former Prime Minister, Steven Harper, with his former communications director, the person on this panel who knows him, certainly the best Dimitri, who's with us tonight, Dimitri, I wanted to get your take on, I guess, your analysis of what the significance of that speech last night, what, yes, at the summit, the closing speech was, right? There were a number of instances where he said, you know, I wish they'd do more. They go further up, basically an endorsement of the direction of the government and multiple instances during that speech. Well, an endorsement of the direction of the government, but not a blank check

34:29vashi. And that's where I think that the current conservative caucus can maybe take some time to listen to Prime Minister Harper's speech. What did he do yesterday? He not, so let's assume he's not a foreign Prime Minister. Let's assume he's opposition leader for a second, even though he's a three time Prime Minister. I will make sure I'll always remind people of that. What he did basically yesterday is give the government credit where credit is due because, yes, this government has basically concluded agreements with Alberta on pipelines is moving faster than the previous government. The previous government was moving in the wrong direction. And basically his messages, you must deliver on your promises. The challenge with the conservative strategy in my view is they swing at every single pitch. And sometimes you just have to sit back and, you know, why can't the conservative caucus applaud the memorandum of understanding and the progress that has been made

35:30on pipelines with Alberta or the agreement between the Ontario government and the Alberta government to build a pipeline to these. But then Mr. Pollyiffe should have attended this investment summit. And what should his message have been? This government is making big promises and we will hold them accountable to make sure they deliver that stability. And what was the purpose of Prime Minister Harper being there yesterday? That ultimately, whether conservative or liberal because Prime Minister Kretchen was also there, regardless of your partisan color, we are Canadian first. And I will tell you this, the biggest challenge for Mr. Pollyiffe has nothing to do with a united caucus between reform, conservatives, fiscal conservatives, social conservatives, or progressive conservatives. The biggest challenge he has is whether or not there is a place for the blame Canada caucus led by Jamil Javani. Is there a place for people like that in a party vying to form the national

36:31government? Okay, Erica, over to you. What are you watching for in this caucus? What does Mr. Polly have to do? Yeah, well, unfortunate for me and my movement, I've lived through many caucus revolts and voting out the premier or the Prime Minister. But very valuable for this conversation we're having today. I think that that really, down to it, I think the other panelist really nailed the nail on the head where it comes to what Pierre says to Canadians. I think it's more humility, more commending, the government where the government has maybe picked up the playbook of the conservative last in the last campaign, and then hold them accountable. So I think that there's some space for Canadians. And I think, though, given my experience, the major audience that Pierre needs to focus on is his caucus. And that's not the party. The party continues to fundraise. The base is very strong and supportive. And so it is the caucus because that is the room that

37:32ultimately is going to decide the time period or show the frustration and be able to remove a leader. And again, I'm now living all of the times that I've watched that happen to my own party. Conservative caucuses are not scared to do that, right? And we've seen that in the last decade. So I think that listening to the caucus and whatever, you know, Melissa Lansman was alluding to when it speaks to these changes are coming, I hope it's some of the things that this panel has discussed today. Sharon, what do you think? You know, there's so much that can be said about this. I would say that there's a few things here. For starters, Prime Minister Harper is somebody who endorsed Pierre Pauliev in the last election. And then he was back in the same room that Pierre Pauliev has spent the last week criticizing endorsing that room. And I think this is, if there was any more nails that can be put on that coffin, like, I don't know where there's room left at this point. But I think his biggest issue is, Mr. Pauliev is not able to separate conservative members that elected him or voted him in as a leader from the general conservative

38:38voter in the country. And his messaging seems to kind of steer directly towards a subsect of people who have supported him. He's losing his caucus left writing center. And we have to remember, I know there's reports of anonymous caucus members out there saying they're concerned. There's a lot of people who just want to save their jobs as MP and they don't actually care what happens beyond that. And these are the folks whose voices we're going to start hearing more and more and more of now. And the divided caucus is not unique to conservatives. We've seen it with the NDP. I've seen it with the liberals myself. It happens. The question is, how do you react to it? And right now, I don't actually think there is a path forward from Mr. Pauliev. Listen, it is great for us liberals to have him where he is because he continues to allow Prime Minister Karney to shine in the way that he'd like to. And to have someone like Prime Minister Harper out there, I think is something that you don't really recover from. So I would say this is probably the fifth chapter of the beginning to the end of his time as leadership. And we're just going to see more and more of this as the fall session kicks off next week.

39:39Marika, how important do you think it is that Mr. Pauliev, like Garner, all the support he can with in caucus? And do you think it's still possible? Well, I mean, that number that stands out to me from Abigail's report is that only 80% of caucuses there. So I think that actually says everything you need to know about how united that caucus is and whether they're all behind their leader. If they can't be bothered to show up in the week before the return of the House of Commons to get on the same page to strike the agenda, I'm not saying all of them are striking or avoiding the retreat for reasons because of Pierre Pauliev. But certainly a 20% of caucus missing for such a retreat is notable. And it just speaks to how enormous the challenge is. And the problem for Pierre Pauliev is that he has been dealt a raw card of hands politically speaking, but he has not done anything to build those relationships to make it easier now for him. You look at someone like Stephen Harper. All the things that I hear is that he was treated quite shabbly by the

40:44Pauliev campaign in the lead up to the last election. So when you don't do what's needed to build those relationships when you're at the high, it's a lot harder when you're low. Good point. Okay, we'll take a quick commercial break. We've got to talk about possible EU membership with the front bench next day right there. Canadian women are looking for more. More of themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are up. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the honest talk podcast. I'm Jennifer Stewart and I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada's most inspiring women, entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the honest talk podcast and I'm Art Radio or wherever you listen to your podcasts. We've been talking a lot about different ways in which you can destroy the work we're doing.

41:47I think we're still a ways away from actually landing on what we think is the best way to describe, but what we're focused on is actually driving results in the specific sectors that we're actually focused on. And eventually we'll get to the issue of what's the best way to actually describe it. There's been a number of issues that this has happened with the with the prime minister. He's not told the truth on the on the Gordy Howe bridge and now we see that he's not telling the truth and not informing Canadians through Canadian media about the negotiations that are happening all over the world on Canadians behalf. Welcome back to Powerplay with the front bench. We're talking about the possibility of quote-unquote associate membership of the EU Sharon Karliwe ham and Erica Brudy's Dimitri Sutis and Rika Walsh are all here. Sharon helping understand here what's going on. It was happened. The Wall Street Journal says it's happening. The prime minister says it's not happening. And then Ursula Von Der Land of all people says no, no, no, we want this to happen. What's going on? Why isn't there clear communication? So I think there's no clear communications because I think things

42:47are probably still being worked out. The prime minister is in Europe this week. What I would say though is I think everyone needs to take the temperature down for a second because this isn't like what we're hearing the American saying about making Canada 51st day. An associate membership is not full membership and it could evolve into anything. It's not even real. It's like it's literally something that's it's a concept. It's a concept we've heard about but it's not a thing. But we have to remember the time we're living in right now. We are in an era where our closest neighbor, our closest trading partner has turned on us. We are looking to trade with other countries and other regions. So this could mean potentially opening up a different trade corridor, getting some of Canadian supply into the European markets. It could be anything but we have to remember that it could be worked out but it's not like we're becoming a European country. So everyone just need to take the temperature down and I think the government needs to communicate better so people stop freaking out about it. Erica, your thoughts? Well, I would say that this is what many of us on

43:53the panel have lived through created at sometimes a distraction. I think that what we saw was like a turn the turn the page of maybe a not successful investment summit where we didn't see major announcements investment coming into Canada. And there's no way that the Prime Minister didn't know that the president of the European Commission was going to say something like that. You know, his office was probably well informed. So I think this is like a pivot which I love that Sharon also tried to do while talking about the possibilities of an associate membership which she's right. She pointed out it doesn't even exist. So I think if these abilities of us having the conversation about what this is, you know, it is kind of irrelevant at this point because it's not actually a thing. And when you look at there's almost 10 other countries that qualify geographically and in the other qualifications by the EU that are jumping at the bit to join the EU, the fact that

44:56we could even be in contention as this make believe associate member. I think is almost comical to be honest. It was made believe but then the president of the European Commission said it. Louis. Yeah, no, for sure. There's something there. Somebody is going to have to explain this to us because it's not clear. She talks about an alliance for the future. The Prime Minister talks about a unique alliance but before we get too excited about this, Vashy, I think we need to walk before we run. Let me explain this. Before we start talking about becoming an associate member, which is something by the way that doesn't even exist, how about we get all the countries of the European Union to ratify the free trade agreement that we signed with them 10 years ago. And we're not just talking about any other country. France hasn't ratified neither as Italy. One thing that worries me a little bit about this, Vashy, when I look at this architecture that we're putting together for this rapprochement with the European Union, it rests a lot. Yes, on substance or things that the European want from us and there are things that we want from the Europeans, but a lot of this

46:00rests on the personalities that play namely Madame Vonderlion and the Prime Minister and a couple of European leaders. But I've got news for you. Some of those European leaders are not going to be around much longer. Macron is out as of next spring. Meloni is facing an election in Italy before the end of the year. Merds in Germany is not looking very good. And Mr. Cardin, even if his phone number is a really good, he's not going to be in power forever. So let's make sure that whatever it is that we strike with the European Union will stand the test of time and that we won't have leaders coming in a two, three, four years from now and just throw this down the shoot. Well, in some of those examples that we provided, I put this to the German ambassador right, Rika, like they could be the new leaders of those countries could be very populist in nature, very far right and not really pro multilateralism and big trade ranges. Yeah, and I think Politico is reporting today from Brussels that some member states weren't even informed that this was coming. So look, I think Sharon said everybody's take the temperature down. The person who could have taken the temperature down was

47:01the prime minister when he was asked about it and he said he decided to play word games. He could have simply said, yes, this is something we're considering. You'll hear more about it this week. It does not mean we're becoming part of the EU. We maintain our sovereignty. Instead, he tried to say it wasn't happening without actually saying it so he couldn't say that he didn't lie except that the question was very clear. And so I don't understand the word games and the semantics that they're playing. And I don't understand why he's not taking the time to explain to Canadians what's happening. And I think you can draw a direct line from Davos to this EU thing. I think it makes sense from there. But like with Davos, he never did the complimentary speech in Canada to explain what was happening. And now he's in Europe announcing something happening here. I speech to their parliament before our parliament reconvenes next week. Dimitri, last word on this to you. So instead of focusing on what to call it, let's focus on what it should be. So I think the Prime Minister needs to be clear that we don't want to replace our dependence on the Americans with our dependence with the European. So Prime Minister Karin Afist says, masters of our own

48:06destiny. So everything is decided in Canada. Every final decision is made in Canada. We never have to seek conditions to be met or approval from anybody else, not the European Union, not Brussels, not Washington. And I would say, you know, if we fail to learn the lesson of the current crisis, that we must never depend exclusively on anyone, whether it's the European Union, you know, think of immigration, for example. Should any, should Brussels dictate our immigration policy? So if I had to sum up the kind of a relationship that we're looking for with the European Union, it's a friendship with benefits. We don't want to get married because we enjoy single life. Amen, everybody. Let's leave it on that note. Oh boy, yeah. Talk for us, those of us who are married. All right, guys, thanks, everyone. Our front bench, Louis Hammond, Dimitri, suit as Erica Brutti's Sharon Carr and Rico Alch will take a quick break and what's next, is next.

49:18All right, welcome back to Power Play and I focus on what's next while we were on air tonight, the president of the United States issues an issue to memorandum, essentially making good on a threat that he made a few weeks back to block Canada from procurement contracts in the United States. He says as a response to provinces who have said not necessarily formally blocked but said that they would prioritize Canadian companies over American ones, for example. So the memorandum goes to the Department of Defense, the budget, the federal procurement policy, the administrator of general services, aeronautics, a whole bunch of different departments and basically says, don't buy Canadian. I'll leave Power Play there. We've got a lot to watch for coming up on that file on Fashion Capel. Thanks for watching tonight. We'll see you tomorrow. Have a great rest of your evening.