Predicting The 26/27 PREM with Squidge Rugby

0:00I don't want to be seen as too much of a lesser tiger as, um, you know, Homer. I think they overachieved last year. I do. Contrary to the actual earth. They got tries in them, of course they always are. It's the other side of the ball with Bristol. I'm not sure if I stand by literally anything that I've put here. It also has the recipes to go terribly wrong. You want to be exciting rugby club and you're a bit like, are they trying to be exciting or they're trying to win games? It is a compliment to the league of how competitive it is. It really is. From picking third to eighth was a very difficult task of it. So hard. It feels a bit like they have gone to strengthen the things that are already working rather than fixing the problems. And you kind of look at that Quinn's team and you went, they've got a lot of things that are working there. They're just so leaky at times and they almost put so much emphasis on attack. The rugby gods are going to punish them for this. In the big games, in the big moments, when it comes down to genuine knockout rugby or, you know, trying to, they often just sort of fade away towards back end of the season. When you think they should be great and put it together. I'm going to double down on this and I think we are going to see continuously bottle finals.

1:00The Prem is back. Holy, the Prem is back. It is Ben and what better way to celebrate the Prem being back than us skipping heads into the season and predicting our final tables and winners of certain wards. And I have an incredible knack of getting it right. Slash wrong. Yeah. Right. Fresh from his mum's basement. We couldn't do this alone. Couldn't we? No, it's Robbie from Squidge Rugby. Robbie, how you doing, mate? Good, good. I think the distance on this table is I want the metaphor for the mum's basement. I would be basically in the basement of this table. I'd be as far along. And the different. Yeah. For audio listeners, how should we should have been? How's the lights for you? Is it too bright? There is the space for like two, two of you again to sit between us. For audio listeners, sake. And I just, I like to be down some stairs, I think, metaphorically, in order to talk to people at any given point. There is an uns sociable gap here. Yeah. But that is because we are going to be, so audio listeners, you obviously can't see this. But there's an uns sociable gap. And that is because we've got the TV behind us

2:01so we can put the tables up of what we think in our predictions. Stephen and Trevor on our South African channel will be predicting the ERC table. Copying us, obviously. So yeah, go and like and subscribe that. Ben, who's going to win the ERC this year? Lensder. Robbie. You know what? I don't want to talk about it. There we go. Yeah, I think I'm out with the dragons, yeah. Whoever look, don't roll out the dragons. Don't roll out the dragons. TIT is brought in a lot of big Tongan lads. You can't win without big Tongan lads. It'll probably be Lensder. But what if give us a top 14 winner? I don't ever think it. Yeah, I'm going to go with the ball. No, it's got to be there. Yeah, it has to be there years. Get over the line on the top 14. Robbie. I think it's always to lose as yet. Yeah, well, it is. Yeah, that as well. Okay. But I'm going to board out. Yeah, fine. No, it's all right. Want paleo? Nice. And you are see. You are see I am going to say it is going to be. Glasgow's here.

3:02Interesting. We'll also be making our top 50 clubs in the world. What could possibly go wrong? How many people can we have failed doing that? The entire Sun and the rest. Yes, correct. So we're going to do our top 50. So make sure you subscribe. If you don't want to miss that and everyone's talked about a club well cup and doing that. So we just thought we'll just grab the ball by the horns. Yeah, easy to remember that. Yeah, easy. So subscribe and you won't miss that. Anyway, let's let's stop fafing around. Let's get onto our prem predicted tables. The fact that we can't pick a unanimous winner of any league stands well for this course. I think top 10, in which we start 10, which is start. Let's do 10 and 9. We'll name it. I'll go first. You go second, Robbie. You go third. I wasn't going to say last, but it's not on the snort. That's not right. It's not. It's time to get down to the basement. We're fine. And if you're thinking that I wrote my top 10 down on a random sheet of paper, you are correct. I did. In 10th and 9th. 10th, I've got Gloucester and 9th, I've got Newcastle Red Bull. Interesting. Right. Well, I've gone Red Bull 10th and Quinn's 9th.

4:04I've gone for the same two teams. I've gone Quinn's in 10th and you're castling 9th. Controversial there. Yeah. I'm not sure if I stand by literally anything that I've put here. I would like to echo that as well. So there we are. We've got them. So, right. I think Red, right. I'm going to start Red Bull. Like they will be better than last year. Yeah. But bringing in I think 26 new players, like, it's a tall task to get 26 players with a new coach with all that kind of stuff with a lot of the stuff going on around them. The, I know it's exciting, but you read read about it. There's a lot of advertising and stuff and it's like, we want to be exciting. Rubber Club and you're a bit like are they trying to be exciting or the Toronto and games? And it's like, hopefully they can do both. But it's a massive task to go from whether or last year, yes, they look greater than talent level. They're, what's their base? The floor will be higher for them. But getting going with that amount of new players, that amount of squad turnover, new coaches like kind of stuff, the stuff that's going off field. Will it translate into results? Yes, but will it be enough of results to get them higher up the table?

5:05That's why I've put them down. There's a great unknown. They're a big unknown for me. Feel like they're going to go down like the Bristol route a little bit in terms of that entertainment. I was trying to get crowd in, you know, gate full gates. People come along and regardless of the result, they're actually sit there and they're entertained. Yeah, it's one of the dynamic fans of really interesting choice for them because he didn't necessarily produce that team with Ulster. Like they did play some lovely rugby. But they weren't bad. Let's move for that. Yeah, there were odd moments of flair. So I feel like maybe they have gone down there. We want to build a foundation first and then look to level that on top, you know, having Steve Jones, the attack coach, who did some lovely things last season in a little bit. But I think it's a big part of it. It's the fact that this is a 10 team league and how far can they feasibly work up when there's not that many teams, right? And you go, they're going to have to in order to move up the table. Someone's going to need to fall below them. And I think Quins didn't have a great season last year. And you've got a, I don't know, I'm not necessarily writing them off completely. But you don't, how big a difference is George Fierbank

6:06going to make as kind of their one big kind of key signing. So we'll see, but I think we're probably looking at them picking up similar number of wins and it comes down to bonus points probably. And I can see that new castle team, the way they're looking, picking up a few try bonus points along the way, picking a few losing bonus points, just from kind of going out and giving it a bit of a lash. And they're being perhaps less expectation from other teams alongside. I'd also argue that you'd say that new castle away with the recruitment they've got, with what they're trying to build towards will be a tougher game than Quins away in a weird way. Like you play them on a Friday night, it's always traditionally difficult. Even when they haven't, you know, before the investment of Red Bull and then for like that, it was always a difficult game. And I feel like that's where new castle going to pick up majority of their wins. I don't see them. I see them being competitive away, but they need to turn their home back into one of those places that's really difficult to go to that you sort of look at and you think when, when does that fix your full? And you almost want them right at the beginning of the season or right at the end. Almost all that middle part, they become very,

7:09like they're a team that traditionally don't necessarily go away and they become stubborn, they're hard to beat. And I think that's where what Dan will bring. Yeah. And then Stephen Jones will bring that actually. We got tries in us. We can execute. We can build pressure and actually run up a score. They have invested in there, say front five of the squeal thing about the size of any like Huskins suit and stuff. They're exciting players, ball carriers, but they have actually invested in the front row. Yeah. Like they have brought in more depth there. They're brought into Millamills, who's sort of in national title at Scotland, who are petty stones from some of them who play hurricanes. They're brought into some depth in that front row. So you expect them to be a bit more, not pragmatic, but more solid up front to give them full nations play. And that's the exciting thing. It's like you don't know, we can predict how they're going to play, but you don't know. So yes, I've sat in the fence or hedged my bets and thinking they'll be better, but you know, they could explode. They could be brilliant and could end up high up the table. But you just don't know and that's the great unknown when you cast with that. I think that's a smart thing as well as they haven't just recruited a handful of big stars. It's a busy sign, Oscar Institute too. Yeah. And then to have spent that money on free all blacks. But instead they went and signed. He said, 26 players.

8:09And a lot of those are very solid lads who are getting limited game time out of a preem club. Or they've picked up people playing in Australia, or New Zealand or whatever, who can do a job. And it allows them to have a deeper squad so they can rotate a little bit. And it probably allows them to better target handful of games without throwing them away. Because years gone by, we have seen them once they get beyond the first 15, really leaning into university players and picking a lot of players really smartly from the Bucks pathway. And I imagine they'll still do a bit of that. But then being able to rotate their team without needing to rely on lads who haven't played a lot of Premiership rugby, who haven't played a lot of Prem rugby. That thing that'll be really important for them going forward. One team, you obviously both had the same teams in your intent the ninth. Obviously I'd glossed her in there. It's a team that glossed as one of those teams that might, I just don't know what to expect from them. Yeah. Because they went from, when George Gibbons and got took charge originally, their mall was like really, really good. Like it was a big, a fundamental, so what they did. They played a bit of tack and rugby, but ultimately they brought that sort of

9:11gnarly pack back. Then they went so far the other way around this sort of entertainment, move the ball. We run it from everywhere. The ultimately were nice on the eye, but always fell short. They've lost obviously Thomas Williams, who for me is a fantastic player. They have to Saracen's great recruitment from them. They're awesome. I know they've added with, dare I say, it's going to just second favour ever playing behind Justin Tipperick, with Jack Morgan. But like it's, and Daly Lake as well, isn't it? Yeah. So there's two big names there, but this is well-cut year-end things like that. And they'll be playing in November and obviously the sixth nation. So I just glossed the unknown for me. You think that they're going to go all right, but I look at them. I'm just not sure. Yeah. I spoilers have them in eighth, because I kind of think it's going to be quite tight between those three at the bottom. I feel like they will be slightly better than last year, but you mentioned the judge's giving to them thing, right? And I think he came in and he's incredibly highly right. You speak to anyone who's worked with him and they all rate him incredibly highly.

10:14And yet I feel like he naturally wants to be playing a more pragmatic game. And then it goes into Glossier, who will have expect them to entertain, expect them to play a really exciting brand of rugby. And I think that has been quite unnatural as a fit for him. And he's trying to do it. And it sometimes feels like Glossier having just a perpetual identity crisis. And they're not quite sure who they are at any given point. And I think Jack and Dewey are phenomenal signings for them. And I have watched a club level like Jack Morgan win games on his own. But I feel you're maybe looking at two games over the course of the season, right? The Glossier may pick off where they're written off. And an out of no where they'll be a Sarasans or they'll be a Lester. But I don't think we're necessarily looking at a consistent squad that will do it week and week out. So I had them in eight spoilers just because I think they've got a couple of shock results in them, but not necessarily enough to push them up the table. You've said you've revealed your eighth pick. So we should probably say that through to about eight things. Quinn. Yeah. Oh, do we not talk about what we can do?

11:15Car up the field mate. He touched me at Barbarians old Robbie. Good man, Robbie Deans. Good. But the fact that Robbie's got me 10th bottom three is a similar social. We real are eighth and seventh predictions. I've gone for sale in eighth and Gloucester in seventh. I have gone for the aforementioned Gloucester in eighth and Bristol Bears in seventh. I have gone for Quinn's in eighth and I've also gone for Bristol in seventh. It's great minds. Yes. Good thinking. Quinn's. You had you had you 12th, the other man 10th and 9th. Yeah, I've got them in eighth. Yes, I don't know. Like they brought in George Furbank. Yes, fullback. I think he will be good. He's a great footballer. He'll probably help Marcus Smith out in that second distribution. So it's the way they play. So it's definitely a way they play. A lot of the problems last year. So more forwards based and they've got some good forward like Don Brown. They got some quality players. But the full pack just didn't mix it with the best of teams.

12:16And they've done nothing really strength in that. They brought in Robbie Deans. They've got the sort of coaching staff. I know Nick Evans has gone. But there's nothing there that there will be better I think for a year of bringing together. But I don't know if they've done enough to sort of, you know what I mean? Really. Excite me. Feels a bit like they have gone to strengthen the things that are already working rather than fixing the problems. And you kind of look at that Quinn's team and you went, they've got a lot of things that are working there. But they've got so many fundamental flaws. We said most of those are upfront and breakdown on their own ball. And it feels like they may be doing things behind the scenes in terms of working that breakdown and the scrum and the like behind the scenes. But it feels a little bit like from the outside. They haven't done anything off the field to address the problems we had. In a way that I feel a little bit like Newcastle probably are. That's why I dropped them down a bit. But I easily could see that bond for kind of falling anyway. The Finn backster being back, fitting available helps. Chandler cutting himself. You need the best version. I'll just say on backster though.

13:18Like he is an incredible talent. But he did miss all the last year and it's all for it. So just to pin hopes on him being, you know what I mean? I'd hate to embed some regards. I hope he's come back and he's set to the world like. But like if you're asking him to basically make your team, that much better by himself a young guy who's come off big injury. Like you're asking him, you don't mean you're sort of asking a lot of that. That's what I say. They haven't really like protected themselves against that. You are asking him back to do all that kind of work. And you're a bit like, is he going to, you know what I mean? You're asking a lot of it. And hopefully he will. Yeah, I'm just think from the pack's point of view though. He comes back, fit in and plays this season. You need the best version of Chandler cutting himself. You want him with a bit between his teeth. He's sort of in and out of the England team, in and out of the England squad. Like you need him like playing every single week, bringing that edge. So you play him at six for instance. You put Don Rand at eight. We know how influential he is and the way that he links up with Marcus Smith. Will Evans missed a lot of last season like phenomenal at the breakdown. Absolutely menace. So here. So then suddenly you look at that as your six eight seven. That's a that's a very good back row.

14:19Very good back row. All right. Then Finnbackster comes back in. Then you start looking at the back line. I think again with the, you know, Caleb Murdy can make things happen. And I think George Furbank will be good. And I think what George Furbank will bring as well is just that bit of leadership. A little bit of, this isn't, this isn't how you do things. Well, that's not exactly. His Queen's aren't a young team. I want to say, No, they've got experience. Marcus is 27 or so like that. And there's other guys who they're not like they're all 18, 19. They're kind of you bringing a senior guy like Furbank to go like, you're going to be, you know, teachers guys have to do it. It's like they're not young, you know what I mean? And then what's like, you think they're these young team, this young side of the team, but they're actually should be in the peak and prime of their careers, what are those players and how old they are. So you're a bit like, I get the Furbank signing and yes, he can be the sort of adult in the back room and then the sort of back line and, you know, keep your arm and soul from all the hamptons again, you're a bit like, I mean, they'll have an effect, but like these guys aren't 16 years old being molded. They are middle of their careers peak age, you know what I mean? And the bit, you know, I obviously said about, you want China coming himself with like the bit between

15:20Steve, it's well-cup you. Yeah. You know, Marcus Smith, again, he'll want to impress. He'll want to keep forcing his way in, you know, he predominantly is either uses the utility that sits on there, you know, in the 62 split or of course starts at full back. He's a 10, he wants to play 10. He wants to grab hold of it. Lastly, it's very hard from to force his way back in as a 10 given the fact that how poorly Quinn's worth in Maxter Warner forces way back it. You know, got Ellis Geng there, one of the best loose heads in the world. You know, you got Don Brandt again, another guy that wants to play. England actually have a like an out and out eight unless Hoskins to 2-2. It's something which might be my fast track to be. I don't want to give anything away, but like, you know, it's so good. But it's quite interesting, you look at Quinn's, I feel like they've got a lot to prove. A lot of those players have sort of been fringe players, a bit between the teeth. It'll be interesting. I go, I've only bit the mate because I just just saw something about them that says that they won't quite be as consistent and they will fall short. The other thing about it being a World Cup year and this fact into my thinking with both Quinn's and also Glossett, but particularly Bristol is over the last couple of years,

16:21we have seen genuine the last two seasons more tries being scored than at any other point in rugby history. Like, it has been unprecedented. The number of tries being scored. The percentage of points that are tries we're seeing high scoring games like every prime game seem to finish like 38-42 last season. I think with this being a World Cup year and with things on to change, that might come down. I think we might see fewer tries unless for focus on that and teams go slightly back towards goal kicking. We've seen South Africa starting to do that a little bit in France and Argentina likewise. So I wonder whether we will see that change in the kind of meta of the game and whether those teams that have thrown all their eggs in that basket start to have diminishing returns have slightly weaker results. And that was part of my thinking of Bristol. Part of it is just I don't think they were serious team. And I greatly enjoy watching them. Fantastic for our night of day, man. I don't necessarily see them as a serious threat to anything, but I love watching them. And a part of it is I think we are probably heading out

17:22of this period of attacking completely on top and generally the game tends to balance a bit for a World Cup. Like, you see, if something is completely on top, like you go back to 2018, defense got really on top and it balanced out a little bit by the World Cup and it was more level there. And attack has been so on top these last couple of years. I think it probably will balance out a bit over the next 12 months. Interesting you come up with this because this links in with my selection of eight of sale. And I can't, I think I've got recency bias of sale losing my 80 points. It was just scarred me. But I think about the league table as a whole. And I was like Northampton, obviously, set the score in tries. And I think if teams tried to copy that, they will always fail in some regards. So a bit like we said about you say Bristol there, Gloss or another or the other things and maybe Newcastle because Northampton are settled. They're really good. They've done it for years. That's what they do, you know what I mean? And for these teams to catch up is like also to get the talent in, Northampton have got an international backline. So they've got talent.

18:23So, and this is where I think the way to almost beat them is to go the other way and be pragmatic defense, core fundamentals of the game, because you're not going to score them. So you've got to stop them scoring. And that's where sale. I'm like, sale of boom or bust in regards to, they could be that team, because traditionally they've been great defense. They beat up in the four pack, 40 kicks his goals. They score, you know, the occasional, so I try counter that kind of stuff. But they're almost like, they're an outlier in regards to where they sit on the table of how they play. And but last year they were bad. And like, I know they've recruited lots of players and they've got, they look at the start 15, you know, you smiths, you're Thomas Francis's, you're courting laws, like, risous ski, march and you're all these guys, but you're like, some of them going to sit on the bench. And the bench wasn't the issue when they were losing 18, 0 to Sarasons. That's my bit of like, you know, where I can't place them in regards to, and therefore if the game does swing back that way, which kind of expected, it does, you expect the sales to be better, but then if sale go, actually we're going to trace scoring points and go away from what they do well, it's, yeah, a team that I can't work out. But it lies into your point of like,

19:23how the game's going to shift is going to shift from scoring loads of points back to more of a sort of, not pragmatic, but you know, it's going to find its way back to that pragmatism, in which case, it suits sale really well. But then if sale's not being pragmatic and try to score points, because that's what everyone else does, you know, it's kind of, yeah, yeah. Let's see where we've put sale and others. So let's do our six and five. So Robbie, what's your six and five? I think I actually probably would have swapped these round, but it's the way I put them when I submit my list. So I've gone Sarasons at six, and I've gone sale at five. I've gone extra at six, and I've gone sale at five. And I've gone extra fifth and lester in sixth. Hmm. I think the sale, the sale one is, like you've just mentioned there, it's an interesting one, because for so long, when you went up there or played against sale, it was defense, they squeezed you, high press, like forced you into errors, almost trying to beat you up, and they went so, they were so unrecognizable from that last year that you feel that they're going to go back

20:24to the foundations of what that team has been doing. And what Al Sarnason did for years at Sarasons, it just seems inevitable that they don't have to do that. And I think if they do do that, and Fordy's pulling the strings, we see how dominant he can be as a fly half, like incredible player. E-Grab's hold of it. The pack gets rumbling. I can see them, I can see them being much better this year. And you look at the signings they've made. They are, perhaps, you know, they've perhaps some of their better days are behind them. They've signed a few really good players in the last days of their careers, right? So Courtney Law is coming back in. We'll make a difference, the environment. It's, and you know, you would imagine on the field, you would hope on the field, but at the very least he's going to raise some standards and he's going to like help bring through the likes of Chris Shunser, right? Who probably is career best form at the end of the season for Exeter, and then is now going to get a year to learn off. One of the greats of his role and his kind of positions that six lock hybrid,

21:25and then Nikki Smith and Tom Francis coming in as good scrumaging props, who are someone else you can rely on. I think they've recruited quite smartly in terms of similar to what I was saying about Quinn, right? They've strengthened, I think, the areas of their game that were already strong, but for them, that is something that can help kick them on. Because I think the weaknesses were more, as they said, things they were trying to do, right? Rather than a fundamental flaw that they couldn't compete on. I think they just went away from what made sales out. And people might think, well, what the hell's that mean? What I mean by that is they were a physical team. The squeezed you defensively, got up, pressed hard. You think of those tries they scored, not last season, the season before, where Bristol trying to run everything? I think Ben Curry gets an intercept and because they're up in the high line of a defense, they squeezed you and then beating you up basically. And they completely came away from that. So I do think there's going to be a big, big push for them to be back to that. The things with those signings, though, you mentioned that they are veterans, by that way.

22:25But they're almost like veterans that you, if when they signed them last year, when they finished in the top four, they take you to the top of winning from third to first or when you final just stuff that depth to the squad. But like the fact that last year, they finished eighth or seventh, whether they finished, it's kind of like those signings, do they just get you back to fourth in which case it's a bit like, is that good enough for that season? You know what I mean? I think it's a bit of, it's interesting that is a bit of pressure on sale from the wire thing, because it's like, there's what I talk about them, how good they've been with the press for years. And it was last year just a, anomaly or is actually that the trend, if so, I mean, in such a, say how they come back. So we've, myself and Coli got X to, I've got them at six, Coli, you got them at fifth, and not on your team yet, probably. We might have similar first and second. Right, but third and fourth and all that, and where there's a few more teams that we need to discuss. So let's reveal our third and fourth places. So in fourth for me, I had Saracens and third I had Lester. And fourth I had Bristol and third I had Saracens. I had X to and fourth, Lester Tigers in third.

23:27But I'm just gonna say, from picking third to eighth was a very difficult task for me. So hard, because, right, last year, no one particularly sale to be where they were. Like everyone's picked to them top four, they fell out. Exeter and Northampton went from bottom of the table two years ago to the playoffs. I don't know how to pick. I think I picked them as late. I'm nine for L.A. Got hot and we're really good. So this whole thing, again, it's so hard to predict. And what I've sort of gone for one team, what I've said about one team, sale of pragmatism stuff, Bristol, I'm expecting them to score those points to be really healthy, so you're hence why they're four for my list. So I've sort of made one argument for one team and made the opposite argument for the other and then I'm splendid in my team. So yeah, it is a compliment to League of how competitive it is. It really is. And I think that's the biggest thing. I was like, when I was trying to do this, it is a compliment to how competitive the premise. Let's touch on Tigers. Yep. Because, in Robbie Havin, down there at third.

24:29Right. I have them outside the top four. Throwin' through less Tigers, want them to win the thing. But if I put them first, they'd finish anything away else. I'll be sad. So if I put them sixth and they finish any higher than that, that's a result for me, all right? And... Well, for the Europe. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I just... It's, I don't want to be seen as too much of a lesser Tigers, you know, Homer. So that's all I see. I think you way past that. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. We are, we are, we give our views kinds of, we are challenge views. You look at Leicester and you look behind the scenes. There's been like... Yeah, look behind the scenes, you see. It's been a lot of change. They're technically well-kid. That's something I think I was also... I think the top four, and I saw the kit of thought, I nearly, the rugby gods are going to punish them for this. I nearly dropped them out my top four purely on the base of they are not winning away game in that. Disgusting honking kit. Well, like, absolute shabby. But you look behind the scenes. You say, get sorry, if they get as a final, they win a prem. Wearing that away kit, that is, that is one of the most,

25:31we're the most disgraceful podium pictures of all time. Has it ever put you off a game? Have you ever seen the shirt as you walk in the dressing going on, God's sake? We're playing in that today. Yeah. I don't know. We... Do you know what? I've got the vibes with this Leicester shirt. It's very similar to when Umbro took over England. Right, yeah. Just where it really just started to go wrong. You know, you could blame players or coaching staff or you could just look at the kit sponsor. Yeah. And Umbro was just a bad move from England rugby. I don't know how you ruined an England shirt. It's a white shirt. You put an Umbro badge on it. You put an Umbro badge on it. You put an Umbro badge on it. Right, yeah, Leicester. Sorry. Right. I always work less case in our Elester because I don't want to get too excited and I want them. But like, last year was so good they can be. This year I think like the attack coach but here it's gone. He was quite big in the recent path thing. Great. Brett Deakin was four's coach who was basically defense last year he's gone. He's tagging the kick and coach. Our Davis has now gone to Wales. So there's been a lot of movement behind the scenes. You look at what Elester they...

26:33Like they adapted the game last year and played this wide wide and played a lot of rugby and stuff. But they're the best of the best scrum the Leigh. You know, they're being teams up with their scrum that kept them in games. But then you lose Nicky Smith. You've sort of haven't really played to me. I've seen a lot of the other who says you saw a trophy. He's got Chess and we still got fantastic players. Reveals, Wayne Wright, you're a recruiter. You've got like these great... You saw it were very individual players and I think Leal was a really tough team. But it's just that movement of... Again, are they going to keep moving towards his path for throwing the ball around which helps because you got to say, Radwan and Haswell Collins and these kind of guys, I'm going to go to the school trial. So it's... Yeah, I don't know. So I'm just... Last year they were brilliant. I'm just taking my bets and sort of... So I don't get too excited about myself and put them safe just to keep a feeling the ground. I feel like that pack is so hard, physically to beat. Right? They should win the vast majority of the games at World for Droid if not all of them. And that puts you probably around four for fifth, right? And then it's picking up a few away games on the road. And I was just kind of looking at it and like a bit of this ties into my thinking with Saracens

27:33that when I look at them, I feel like the Saracens team has one last like rage against the dying of the light moment in them. And I can't expect it might be in Europe. I kind of feel like they might have a big European run and then perhaps second off the season kind of throw off the league a little bit and focus on Europe and have a bit of a run there. So that's kind of my thinking around having them slightly lower. Where I think less so you may see the opposite and you may see them really concentrate on the league and kind of build into that. It's just been the case, I think over the last few years. The Saracens is, you know, with Martin McCool going again, it comes back to World Cup here. There's some senior players there that some are ironing up. This is their last shot of going to World Cup. I dare say. You've got James George retiring in the next season. So he'll have sort of a big focus on trying to do that. But equally, he will have an ironed World Cup. How could he not? You know, that will be his plan will be to go to New England to World Cup and try and win it. I, when someone's been there for so long, like Martin McCool and then someone comes in as Brendan Fenter is coming in,

28:34who's been involved with the game, but not in it every week, you know, like, and I just don't know how that's going to work. Now, I don't know Brendan Fenter. I only know from what I've seen before I hear about. And it's a very, very good free-chairs Brendan Fenter. Yeah, free-chairs for sorry, Vibhomba. And it's, I just think there's enough good players there to, when you've got a group of players like they have with all that leadership and all that knowledge and everything like that, sometimes that's enough to get results to get you to the top four. I do wonder with them if their players with the playing national, the World Cup and mind, Brendan only being there for a year, it sounds like, it also has the recipes to go terribly wrong. Yeah, I think Ventors very much into secure and nail down the Sarah's and DNA again and keep them going in the same way they will. And you look at them and I wonder if they will be able to be consistent in the midst of bringing him in of wherever or not we see,

29:36perhaps some split in the camp or whether there's some sort of idea of, okay, well, he's only in free year. There's a very good chance we have, they have a coach announced mid season, you know, and you're then, okay, well, we know who's coming afterwards. Does that change how they go for it? But a team that has Jamie Georgie mentioned, Owen Fowler coming to the team, Jamie Georgie mentioned Owen Fowler coming towards the end of his career, Mario Toujé, Thomas Williams coming in, you know, there's a number of the names they have brought in are really outstanding players alongside some proper legends of the game who are coming into the last days of their career and probably know with the likes of Jamie George retiring, this could be one of the last shots. So I feel they've probably got something in them this season, we'll see something from them, but I wonder whether a season long league is the approach for this site. When Mark McCall go and sorry, Colin, but Mark McCall going, you almost felt like it was time then for complete fresh start. I feel with Brendan Fenter coming back in, it just doesn't feel that fresh. If anything, it feels like you're going back to the early Saracens evolution

30:38of the Wolfpack and the kicking strategy and everything like that. And maybe it'll be hugely successful. But there is, I've got them to make the top four, because I'm back in that caliber of players, and I know some of those players, and they just have that will to win, that mindset of getting over the line, and Brendan will help feed that. But I do look at this and think it could be a strange year, it could be a season where you look at in hindsight and gone for a season actually, we should have just got someone else in and freshened it up a little bit. I feel like it could actually be a little bit of a whole set. I'm banking on it being like the other way. I think with the returns you have, potentially coming towards it and like Jamie George, you faths your daylies as well. Like you've got guys there that know the Saracens way, and to go basically brings someone else in and try and change course, they might struggle with, but you know what I mean? You might take time to adjust and lose thing where you bring Brendan Ventorin. He's there for a year or whatever is on there. He can squeeze everything out. I'll be like check when he comes to last year. He's there for a year. He squeezes everything out. He's not building for two, three years, he doesn't care about that. He cares about this year.

31:38And then you've got the talent in that Saracens team from Carrey, Theo Dan, Jamie George, George Myers has gone there, Maritoji, Ziquay, Benel, Barbary, Thomas Williams, like you think about all those that pack, the backlines, like got a sort of exciting talent. Young guys coming through. I think that Ventor's there to squeeze every last drop out of this playing group for a year. Yes, there's a bit of transition on probably the recruitment side of things, but the year after you can worry about that, but he's the man there and he's intense, but he's intense for a year. And I think that they have the talent there to squeeze him out. And I think last year you got bits of it, but it was kind of like the end of Mark McCall, and maybe it sort of fell away, or I think for a year I'm expecting Saracens. Well, my table says they'll put it together and, let's say, squeeze everything out there. There's still a team if they make top four and I've picked them to do it. You won't want to play them. Like in those knockout games and the playoff scenario, very difficult because you know they can turn up, and the players have been there and done it more so than any other team that's in that league. So Bristol, can I just, we better just touch on? I'm back in Bristol right now. I haven't really recruited anyone. They've recruited a lot of young guys, but last year,

32:38they were horrifically injured. Like, it shoots right at the age of the squad. When you actually think about their team again, like we talk about this again, whether it's, it's more pragmatic, whether it stays wide open, if stays wide open, you look at that Bristol team that can throw the ball, I can play. There's not many better than them, and if they, it will stay fit and healthy, which is a big thing because, what do they say, like, future prediction of injuries past stuff? And it's like, if you're injured all one year, it could be a freak or it could just be the way you train, the way you are, the way you play, you know, if people are just injury prone. So again, they might have another really sees of injuries, but I'm banking on them not, and that's why I put them for. The bit that Bristol, like, we caught up with Pat Lamach in that episode that was available to caught up with him at the Prem Awards, and it was really interesting to be the Pat like, but he's saying about the bonus points out and important that was he spoke about the injuries and everything like that, and they got tries in them, of course they always are. It's the other side of the ball with Bristol that's so frustrating is they put on some of the greatest displays, but they're just so leaky at times,

33:39and they almost put so much emphasis on attack, which is the way they play, it's the way they own and want them to play, and it's in its fire. But you've got to do both sides of the ball at times, and for me, in the big games, in the big moments, when it comes down to genuine knockout rugby or, you know, trying to, they often just fade away towards the back end of the season, when you think they should be great and put it together, and for me, until you see the other side of the ball more consistently with them, I think that's always going to be the thing. I can see 90 odd points in Northampton was just... Yeah. ...load of points. Like, you just, you know, and that doesn't go away, that's got. But for them, it's almost like, yeah, but we still have a bonus point. I sort of feel like that's their sort of mindset, rather than... See, I haven't, like, say, in Bristol, I could flip flop between them, and like, one's one spectrum, Bristol's the other, and they could almost be like, as you say, like, Bristol lost by 90 Northampton, and I've counted against sale, but I haven't counted against them, and it's, you know, I mean, like, they have different spectrum, but they can flip flop, and that's what Bristol say. They are, you know, you look at the talent they've got on the team,

34:40they can score, and they can defend it. Actually, one of the massive underrated parts of their game is their mall, and we've seen malls referee differently now, like, traditionally, over years. And we're going to throw the ball around, but they can clue in the four pack as well, and they might return to that. So... I just feel like they're the most unserious team in Europe, and I greatly enjoy that about them, and I love watching them, and every time I watch a Bristol game, I am never thinking about the league table, and I think there's a reason for that. I imagine a lot of Bristol fans are probably similar, and you've got a greatly entertaining spectacle. Top two's, I've gone Northampton 2, Bath 1. I've gone Northampton 1, Bath 2. I've gone Northampton 2, Bath 1. There we go. It's... You could pick it either way. You could pick it either way. It's a bit like the Northampton teams trace the other guys that play the way they play, Bath are a bit more pragmatic, like, you know, in the last year, if they wouldn't have absolutely fluffed it against external teams, that second half, they'd have been the final. It would have probably been a very competitive game, like we've seen all the Bath Northampton games competitive,

35:41but, you know what I mean? They've played slightly different, but they have the chance to mix it. Thompson Toy going will be a big loss for him, but we'll see what comes back, and he's going to be hopefully fit and healthy, and we'll press on, and he's obviously a British line, a brilliant player. And yeah, that Bath has been set up to evolve and move forward, and I think that's what they do, Northampton. Yeah, they were brilliant, and they are brilliant in the way they play. They just need to get top two. They'll be right. You've got World Cup, you've got Indian players, you've got all that kind of stuff, it'll be interesting how they keep developing. But yeah, you pick it up on. This one's difficult, because Northampton put on the worst pre-missip defense of a trophy ever the year after they won it. Didn't they? I mean, it was like, they won it. They beat Bath for the final course, and the following season they were so... Yeah. ...had a great run in Europe, obviously got to European final, but in the domestic league, they were horrendous. You look at Bath, and given the fact they lost to X2 in the manner they did, and taking nothing away from X2, but that's a game that Bath should win,

36:42could have won, and had... I mean, the fact that it ended like it did is almost sort of still mind blown. It got to that point exactly. It's sort of crazy. With that being said, Bath are back motivated, and I'm not saying they won, but it's a different feeling. When you're full-shot, you've lost a final, you've won a final, and then you've not made it. So I think that they'll have that little bit of fire in the belly again, and you suddenly realise that actually, you don't always make a final. It doesn't become... You don't routinely just make a final, just because of the squad you've got, and then you've got that. And I think that would be good for Bath. I think Northampton, I think they'll have learnt a lot from, having won it, and then being so full of following season, having won it again. I think that Northampton are going to be in and amongst it for a number of years, with that player pool they have. I just don't see how can they not write the way they're going to have the best set of maps to play, with the talent they have. I think with JJ Van der Mesh has really helped, with that sort of physical size he brings into the pack. The glittered backline, I think Northampton, a team that should routinely be top two,

37:42certainly top four without doubt, but top two for the next sort of two to three years, to be honest, if they keep that group of players together. I think Bath are the most all-court team in the pream. They're the team most capable of playing any style of rugby. Like if they get dragged into a forwards game, they can do that. If they get thrown into a Bristol game, where it is 56-57, they can do that. They can adapt their game, I think, much better than Northampton, so I think that probably plays out better over the course of a long season, where if it came down, we'll get in this in a moment, but who would win the league, necessarily in a locker game? I think there might be a different question. But I think this Bath team are really well constructed to be able to, within the same 23, and without need to rotate this one, they've got very deep and very well put together. But they can, even within the same team, change how they're going to play in the moment and adapt and with the fact that we are starting to see, I think, more of a change in styles between pream teams, there's a period of like a year or two,

38:42where if every pream team seems to play a broadly similar game plan, I feel we're starting to see that change a little bit, so they may be thrown into different scenarios, and I think Bath for the team best set up to do that, most consistently over a season, and continue to win on the road. I agree with all that. I think they are set up to play multiple ways, and therefore, the course for season can do that. I think Saints is just a style of the way. So look, I can't see anything other than those two even being first or second or second or first. One team just really quickly to touch on, like the minute is extra, because we haven't brought them up, and I know there's a lot of cheese fans out there. I think Lenek and Tal are not being there this season's a big loss. I think the season they had the year before, it almost set them up for the season just gone. They're a little bit of the unknown, and they punched well above their weight. When last year it seemed like they were an emotional, you win a game, it's emotional. At the end of the season they had to win everything, and they got to the final. This year, you can't recreate that emotion test to build it,

39:42and to say sometimes you have to go back to basically the core of your team and missing Nicarthalm, and he's massive for them, who's brilliant. I know they've recruited and they work around that, but they're potentially take a few bit wild to get going, and they've got hot at the right time, and they all want to put it against them, but at the same time that takes the maximum amount of energy and emotional energy out of you. Can you do it weak in recap this year? I would say they'd take a bit of a step back. I think there was something in the way they built over the course last season, reminded me a bit of sort of 10 years ago, and when they built for the first time up from being, initially a team who did really want to get promoted, then the team who did well to be a mid-table side, they were making the playoffs, and then from there, they just started to kick on a little bit every season, and it feels very similar in the way they have found a game plan, and they've tweaked the game plan to suit them, and I feel like backster, he's such a smart coach. They tried to move up to DOR, they've got no, you must be head coach for life now, when moving you back into being in charge of running the day today,

40:42and I think a bit of that drop off was him trying to take a step back, and now he's back involved on the day-to-day, doing everything, being the head analyst, as well as the head of recruitment, as well as the head coach. I think that, generally with Exeter, leads them doing well, and these then they have almost always, other than when backster step back, been a team who have got better season on season. So I've got them still in fourth, but I think they will continue to do some good things. Yeah, I don't see them having the same season as they had. Yeah. Last season, I think backster's so far, so that they've got a new investment, without out their heading the right direction, I think they overachieve last year. I do. And that's a compliment to them. I don't mean it to expect, there's a compliment to them, and I think they got a run of results and form at the right time, and really got momentum that got them to where they did, and credits them. I just think that there's better teams out of this season. Pick your overall winner. So, at the end of the season,

41:44if the ladder ends up like that, at the end of the season, we've done remarkably well. But now, if we pick our overall winners. So I've had a take, that I've sort of, I was sitting on for a while, that I felt like Bath, we're going to be the next in the lineage of, remember that Claremont team, that was so brilliant and never won anything. And that lends the team in Europe who've been so good, and then just bottled finals year after year. I felt like Bath, we're going to kind of join that lineage, and be a team who looked brilliant, but never quite delivered on it. Then they won a prize, and I was like, well, that ate badly. Then I remember that lends the team. You're welcome. And that. There, like that lends the team, that Claremont team, they each won the league once, and then they should have done it more often, they didn't. I feel like I'm going to double down on this, and I think we are going to see Bath continuously, bottle finals, and be the best team in the league year after year, and look like they should challenge in Europe, and not quite do it. That is my hot take that I'm sitting on the minute, I'm feeling no fountain science to take it in a final,

42:45and Bath to sort of be in a position maybe, even where they look like it should be there's nailed on, and enough haven't turned up on the day, and are excellent. I'm going to tip a Sarasyn's Northampton final. Oh, okay. And I think Bath, I can see Bath coming. How you doing that, mate? Shorting again. Oh, yeah, because Sarasyn's going to play. That makes Sarasyn have had to in semi-final. Let me keep that. No, you can't do that, can I? Yeah, no you can't. I am going to tip Northampton to back it up and go all the way again. I think that's it. I'll go Bath then, fine. You know Bath? Yeah. So we've got Saints and Bath. Yep. All right, play of the year. Finn Russell. Finn Smith. Am I going to Manifale or Boso? Just need him fit every week, that guy's magic. The only thing we think of in plays is the minor play for a Prim game. So therefore, like, where's... But will they decide that based on recent seed factors at the end of the league?

43:48Because they have a brilliant game in the last four rounds of the season. Correct, yeah. And just get hot for the final part of the season then, where you win the award. Impact signing. Impact signing. Yeah. I think Thomas William, I think Thomas William, makes a lot of difference. Sarasyn's, I think one area, the Sarasyn's, I've got a huge amount of strength in all, in a lot of areas. But they have missed a World Class 9, and Thomas Williams is a World Class 9. For Aaron Wainwright, another World Champion. Great signing for Leicester. Yeah. Well done, mate. Congratulations, you ever sought that deal. Who did that? Who got that deal over the line? Unbelievable. But it's just been like carrying a Dragon's team on his back for years, and now dropping him into a much more competitive team. Like, the way in which you continue to play at club level is extraordinary. The way in which you're played in a bad World's team. I'm looking forward to seeing him playing in perhaps a more competitive team. And so, yeah, Aaron Wainwright. Director of rugby of the year. I think I've seen him. I think I've seen him. I think I've seen him. Yeah, I've seen him. I'm based in mind. Oh yeah, Sarasyn went from third to fifth. I, yeah.

44:49Probably Dowson, Feste. He probably a great year. Dowson. Finally, with the World Cup in mind this season, have we got an England World Cup bolter? So, two, two is the obvious one. As in regards to. That's who I was going to say. From, let's say obvious, but from Newcastle, he could potentially isn't whole at maybe eight Ringland in the back row. Big ball carrier comes on. It could be him. But that's pinning a lot on him. Other bolters. Happy to a piloto. Yes. For Bath. The hooker who is excellent. See, brother of Cecilia, play sort of Wales women. Could have played Wales. Apparently, Turner Dan is all in with England. So, is it a great player in England? And with Jamie George coming towards the end of his career, might be time to bring him in. Archimic Palmer. Yes. I think he's genuinely, I think he was so unlucky, got injured, couldn't go on the tour. I look at him and I really like the way he plays him and Mitch. Which, none of the fans have been in a luxury position when they can rotate a lot and look after each other's, you know, the legs, the bodies and the minutes. I see him being as forcing his way into that England setup.

45:52And yeah, I'm really excited about it. You know, watching his, his, his, him kick on. I thought he had a great season last year. And I think you could have a big year. Make that World Cup squad without that. He's brilliant in the final until you got injured. Yes. So, show us he can do it the biggest. He can absolutely can. That brings us to a close, our pre-empranictions. I'm sure they will age like. Fantastic. They will. Yes. They've already aged badly. So, yeah, please get in the comments. Let's just know what you think about our prediction. Our arguments for and against the teams. What you think. Who do you think is going to be the award is at the end of the year? And yeah, if Ben can get his table looking like that and somehow get Saints and Saras in the final, that will be a hell of a gig, mate. Well done. I'm so excited for the social media clip that does the rounds when Quinn's win the league. Yes. When it's a Quinn's Red Bull final. It's in reverse table. Is it reverse table? Yes. It's in reverse table. It's in reverse table. It's in reverse table. Well, thanks so much for listening and please like and subscribe.

46:54And we'll see you again soon. For the love of Rockley.