PT 1 - OPEN DEBATE REVIEW: Atheism Vs Theism Jay Dyer Vs Stefan Molyneux

0:00Boom! No! Come on! Kids, what should we order for dinner? Pizza! Tuckos! Hey boys, let's not get local. What kind of restaurants will pizza-tankos? I'll never please, I'll never go. Why can't we have food without the bread? With wonder, you can combine 20 restaurants and win delivery, so your family never has to compromise. Use code MealTime for 50% off your first wonder order, terms apply, cwunder.com slash a new customer. Boom! No! Come on! Kids, what should we order for dinner? Pizza! Tuckos! Hey boys, let's not get local. What kind of restaurants will pizza-tankos? I'll never please, I'll never go. Why can't we have food without the bread? With wonder, you can combine 20 restaurants and win delivery, so your family never has to compromise. Download the app today.

1:28Subscribe to my channel. Thanks for watching. Don't forget to subscribe to my channel. I'll see you next time. Bye! Bye!

2:28Bye! Bye!

3:28Bye! Bye!

4:58Bye! Bye!

5:59Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Bye! Don't you try to stop it. Throw a little hissy flicker's at me. Welcome everybody. What's up? What's on your mind tonight? I'm ready to bring some heat. So I got a cold part tonight. Cold part is snake. Hey Jamie!

7:05Let's go ahead and get it going. What else we get for average? Rockwell, what's up dude? What's up? What's up, son? I just wanted to say you did an amazing job in your debate with the fun it was. Thank you. Well actually it was good but comedically it was honestly just. It reminded me of the same as when he went to the batcon and you had the, you had Cholo Cheater and like the fat girl like it was pure comedy. It was intellectual but it was just comedy. What did you think was the comedic part? I didn't even think about it really being very comedic until afterwards perhaps. Well I don't think most people would see it as comedic but just Stefan's whole stumbling

8:09was the whole concept of trying to make the concept assemble itself in material form. Yeah. You're just trying to reach out and grasp or it's just not there. Yeah. Reaching out for something to hold. Yeah I just wanted to say that you did really good on that part and late night streams are awesome. Yeah I wish more people were into the late night streams but it seems like I'd do better in the mid late afternoon early evening as it seems to be my hot spot but I wanted to go and do it because it's still a hot topic you know I'm saying and the way the internet works people will have forgotten in two days what even happened so my as well. My as well do it ASAP and be rocky about it. It's about to get a little rocky up in here tonight son because. There was some heat at this event I think a lot of y'all don't know there was some heat.

9:12A little bit of drama a little bit of heat I'll be honest with it I went into it feeling a little bit. Sort of on other people's home court. I don't think Alex Stein is a huge fan of what I do don't know why I always been a supporter of that dude. Don't like he does line me for some reason no idea why I always said cool things about him. Obviously not so erudite is not a fan. Tripoli definitely buddy so Tripoli nothing bad to say about Tripoli at all loving the death he's also always supported. They don't didn't really find Charlie's moderating to be what I was hoping for I feel like. Maybe Charlie thought he was a host and that's not what a moderator is and so to allow people to kind of. Ignore questions is not what mom I was supposed to actually do some moderating and that is beyond just telling me to pipe down.

10:17Also not telling. Women that yapped for the first 15 minutes non stop. To stop talking to the ought to the people on stage. Where is the moderator where is the where is the decorum. We got to bring a little coolie up in here because I felt like there was a little lack of the court but also. You know I don't blame Tripoli at all first I didn't realize it was Tripoli's event I thought it was I don't know who's event it was I thought okay this is a people putting on a debate event. I thought Tripoli was a host of it so I wasn't trying to start drama by criticizing Charlie thank you very much appreciate you. But also I mean I've done podcasts in the past with Charlie we've gotten along good. And I guess I didn't realize Charlie Robinson is an atheistic not a fan of the at the isn't type of guy I didn't know that we've done at least two or three podcasts.

11:20And always been chill but I felt like he was really wanting to you know kind of let Stefan. Philobuster and he's like just being a host so. But I had a great time overall the event I honestly did not feel like I was going to win I thought that it was enemy territory in the sense of. Most people there were we didn't there was only a few orthobros like a handful majority of the audience was kind of all over the place Stefan probably brought. Ten atheists so there's a lot of hecklers I don't mind that I'm not mad all mad about hecklers as a bug me a bit. But you have two of the judges don't like what I do. I don't think the moderator like what I do so it definitely felt. A little. One sided but that's okay like I'm happy I'm open to going on enemy territory right Muslims can do it you know. This podcast is sponsored by talk space last year I went through many different life changes I needed to take a pause and examine how I was feeling and the inside to better show up for the ones who need me to be my best version of myself.

12:31When you're navigating life's changes talk space can help talk space is the number one rated online therapy bringing you professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatry providers that you can access anytime anywhere. Living a busy life navigating a long distance relationship becoming a first step father talk space made all of those journeys possible I could speak with my therapist in the office I could speak with my therapist in the comfort my home I was never alone talk space works with most major insurers and most insured members have a zero dollar copay no insurance no problem now get $80 off your first month with promo code space 80 when you go to talk space dot com matched with a licensed therapist today at talk space dot com. This is a paid message from go fund me meet Juan Nala when a son was hospitalized for a viral infection. Juan started a go fund me to pay for medical expenses. It was 5k to pay the bill for my son and I need only 22 hours it was amazing people really trust on go fund me.

13:36How did Juan raise $5,000 in less than a day he posted a short video on go fund me telling his story in 30 seconds 30 seconds be specific big quick and tell what are you going to be using the funds for I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money but you shouldn't be nervous sometimes you just have to do it and see the results we were able to save my son's life. I have to go fund me that we still have my son with us start your go fund me today at go fund me dot com that's go fund me dot com go fund me dot com this message reflects one person's experience. With the American Express Platinum card you can access over $3,500 in annual value with benefits and eligible purchases across travel entertainment and more there's nothing like platinum learn more at American Express dot com slash explore dash platinum enrollment requirements monthly and other limits in terms of money. Jake and while he came to the debate in Dallas and there was no Muslims there.

14:39So you know I don't have a problem stepping into you know a largely atheist or agnostic or whatever they were there domain and having a debate I'm not scared to do that. But I kind of felt in the middle of the debate because I couldn't really tell how it was you can never know how it's being received by the crowd. And I mean both like the crowd in terms of the immediate audience crowd and then how it's being received in terms of the viewing crowd online. And I was I was like okay i'm not going to win this crowd like they're already because there was you can't really hear it in the microphone there was so much like hackling and you know yapping from the audience you had a full bar there. And again like I don't mind like I will bust on people make jokes talk shit you know crowd work style we do that in our live events too I don't have a problem at all. But like there was a certain tier of that to where it's like almost distracting and destroying the event particularly with that woman that just kept blurt like I don't know if she had Tourette's or she was just drunk.

15:49But for the first 10 or 50 minutes anytime anybody said something whether it's me or Stefan she would yell out a sentence. And by after about 10 minutes i'm just like can you please stop and she wouldn't she didn't stop so eventually they threw her out and she actually started screaming at the security for taking her out so it was a pretty raucous crowd and i mean i'm fine with that like none of that really bothers me i didn't really get bugged until i felt like. Charlie wasn't moderating that's when i was starting to get a little annoyed. But there's nothing against triply for that i didn't even know that this was his event i thought this was i don't know who's it event i just thought it was another sort of debate event. Triply was hosting it i'm like okay i've only got one person that kind of likes what i do here the rest of these people don't really like what i do so. The aggressive debate style is the normal default debate style so i don't know why i mean if you watch the previous debates when the black chick and the.

16:56White chick we're going back and forth they were like super heated i mean it was like. The open debate part was all interruptions okay so let me give you a taste of what i expected and that's why i didn't see any problem. Interrupting in the open forum part now you'll notice too for the other times i was pretty restrained that it may be interrupted once when step on was talking during his. Personal time story time story story mollany. Side or you want them so you say rejects us what side are you on i am on the side of christ and how you get enough what is the side of Jesus Christ while we're at it while we're at it let me ask notice all they're doing is interrupting okay so the very. The debate right before us during the open debate part they're both interrogating each other. So it threw me for a loop when he's like.

17:59This isn't time for you to interrogate him i'm like yeah it is that like that's actually what happens into base okay i don't know if you're this isn't a game show or like Charlie Robinson look like a game show host okay. But again i had a great time overall. I don't think Charlie Robinson has hosted a debate before. And so i think it would have been if he had had a little more experience with how moderating is different from hosting that would have made it probably i'll give this event um a nine out of ten because overall i really did have a lot of fun and much props to triple i think he's great. But the debate pattern in all of these other debates was super intense if you remember when rax was debating the transhumanist guy like in their open debate part it was. Like rax was a hundred miles an hour from the beginning right true you agreed cocaine is illegal but their medical purposes for it that means it's involved in medical research and medical treatment but it's still legal and i remind the audience of the prompt.

19:08Should genetic engineering of humans be legal i'm advocating for it to so you notice like he was a hundred miles an hour in the first open debate section. And those two guys were back and forth interrupting nobody complained about interrupting until me okay so i guess it's only bad when i interrupt you know anybody else you know but now people think that. I just come to interrupt you know not at all again in the specific a lot of times opening statement nobody interrupt in the opening statements okay. But. When i ask a question by the way i'll you notice i let stuff on ask the first question i didn't even go at him i let him have the first ball he went at me first i was like go ahead. And i answered his question i don't like my answer but i answered his question then when i start to ask questions Stefan does the move of storytelling filibustering.

20:09And i don't even know that it's like they didn't even know what that is like. Let him finish let him finish okay we like it's not sermon time it's not sci fi story time with stuff on. We don't care about stuff on news sci fi fiction novel dedicated to an ran that's going to tell us about how we're evolving into being john galtz in space like that's not what interrogation time is for and yes open bait is an interrogation. So my that's my only criticism everything else is great. I'm trying to think if there's anything else that's it out. Yeah the other thing too is you guys can't hear how much heckling is going on. And i promise you like i don't i really don't get what do you think i would have done this debate if i was like worried about heckling and like this whole thing is heckling and like it's it's wwf style kind of on purpose like i don't care.

21:15I don't care do you think i give a shit about stuff on making fun of that stupid ass shirt why you think i wore that stupid ass shirt. Right give him some low hanging fruit to make fun of get him all distracted by whatever. Get a bunch of y'all goober's talking about my shirt my fashion see that's like show business 101 okay. And by the way yes it was the same shirt that i wore a ruse launch now again people think i'm just starting fights with everyone this is so not true. Did I start a fight with Charlie Robbins i'd like to when are you going to moderate you're just letting him filibuster anytime i ask a specific question. And the only time i get serious about issues is basically just the olgy debates and maybe a little bit of geopolitics like the rest of anything i'm not serious about any of it. I mean and i would include like you know feminism obviously if i'm critiquing feminism i'm serious about that like but anything else.

22:19I'm zero serious at all. So this idea that like when Greg Karlwood's mad like he says oh debating is bad and all these debate bros. And then people are wanting to step into the domain of debate and then they seem like they don't even know what it is they don't know what a moderator of the thing a moderators a host no it's not what a moderators to two different roles. So i mean my advice i think would be helpful if people wanted to hear what could make this a better event and i had no objections to Charlie Robinson we've had like. I don't remember how many podcasts in the past two or three that went fine. But i think it was clearly you know the case that they are most things he's neutral but i don't think on the thia's amies neutral. And i don't know why Greg Karlwood would try to call me out as a racist i don't know where for a stupid as cringe course on i mean it's just weird like. Because you have really good relationships with people for years everything's cool.

23:20And then all of a sudden like and you don't even this is what's so annoying is like you don't even know what you did or why people are mad at you and why don't they reach out to you this never this is like they don't do this either they go public. Stab you in the back attack you and then if you reply then they're a victim that's like the worst thing that's so annoying. And so no i didn't fight with Greg Karlwood Greg Karlwood was calling me out as a racist for no reason i didn't say anything about about Greg Karlwood super been nice that guy for a decade promoted his stuff anytime we did a thing together. Who else somebody like same with ruse like i didn't take a fight with ruse long everybody saw what happened with ruse of ruse long went after us for no reason. Because it hurt his rapture's market share okay well sorry. And i mean if you get called out on slimy tactics that's not my fault it was ortho bros how is it all my fault what people on twitter do.

24:26So you believe in collective guilt now there is collectively guilty for your bad actions it's just again guys this is Michael often all over again right. The same stuff exactly the same stuff happened in 2017 18 with Michael often Michael often would do all the snakey stuff and then act like he's a victim when you call it out and he plays the party card well. He's defending muslim arguments know literally like he's defending muslim tier and actual muslim arguments of people are now speculating if lofton is about to convert to islam what did i tell you this whole time i told you there's something wrong with that dude. And would that not yet again be another vindication what did i tell you about brother in a fangirl. That track cat guy oh yeah we're gonna unorthodox bros will get brother in a fangirl make him Roman Catholic track cat and then he went off and ran them up drove them nuts because he's nuts like yeah have fun with that.

25:38And then props to david for saying you know what you were right. So I appreciate you look i don't know it's everybody just assumes everyone else is has bad motives and anybody that warns you about somebody or anybody that says something like remotely critical or constructive criticism everyone just assumes you're trying to destroy me and take me down i mean no. Not at all. But there's just so many backstabby people in the media it's kind of crazy. I mean there's another person that i've been super supportive and friendly to. Anything they asked for at the drop of the hat i helped them out and then all of a sudden they just look out on me and send me giant walls of text just saying the most insane crazy shit and i'm like what is wrong with you. I didn't pick up fight with top lobster i always like top lobster super friendly that dude.

26:40We talked about doing a person event i was like yeah man that sounds fun i'm definitely not to do that. And then he just freaks out because he's loves o'in Benjamin and wants to hate on orthodoxy okay well i have certain play you know lines i draw on the sand like. And did i do anything mean to top lobster no i just quit talking to. Did i what do i even do no in Benjamin nothing. I mean after he went apes shit i've like made a few jokes that's it and what did he go apes shit over i said his commentary on the trinity is blasphemous because it is that's it. And these people have absolute meltdowns and think that you basically had to have your life destroyed over what nothing i don't like it doesn't make any sense with the american express platinum card you can access over 3500 dollars and annual value with benefits and eligible purchases across travel entertainment and more there's nothing like platinum learn more at american express dot com slash explore dash platinum enrollment requirements monthly and other limits in terms of life.

27:45Stop wasting your nights on a mattress that doesn't get you experience the most comfortable mattress in the world the sleep number smart bed at the touch of a button you can personalize your comfort choose firmer or softer adjust cooler to warmer and right now save up to 2500 dollars during our massive labor day event. Hurry into your local sleep number store today because we have your number. For limited time in McDonald's get a big Mac extra value me for eight dollars that means to all be patty special sauce lettuce cheese pickles onions on a sesame seed bun and medium fries and a drink we may need to change that jingle price of it to switch me very a lot of these people are. Like unhinged and arranged they've got something wrong with them i don't know what it is. It reminds me of the way that Candice has this like enmity towards Erica Kirk and even if you believe suspicious actions and things about Erica Kirk like.

28:53Where what how does that justify like absolute hatred you know what I mean people pick people in media and they obsess and they hate it's just weird. I don't understand it. I really don't. I think a lot of its envy and maybe and I mean everybody can be tempted by envy but like I guess maybe i'm just thankfully at this stage. God help me because I'm everybody can fall prey to any sin like i'm not that indivisive people even the people that are successful I think one one of the big things is like when you see people doing well. You have the option to either resent them or be happy for them. And I can think of some years back when I was kind of getting started in this kind of stuff I would think I would have. Invious types of thoughts I would think man why is that guy getting popular. I got way better content than him and i've had those thoughts right and i've had to confess those thoughts in the past I think everybody has.

29:59Every human has a temptation to envy. But I also think that over time what you realize is that really envy it only hurts you because. The other person is not damaged by your envy. And even if you have a meltdown even if you. Spend every day tweeting about them going after them like it's not really hurting them it's really. A vice that's like entraping you so envy is not ultimately advantageous it doesn't help you out. You know even scripture says not to be in via scripture says not to delight in the downpull destruction even of your enemies or those that you don't like. So I think we really have to be careful about envy and resentment and spite and bitterness and hatred. I think a lot of what's happening on the online space is people are falling prey to actual hatred.

31:03Oversily stuff stuff that's not worth it. I mean you got to be a man and stand your ground and you know not let people walk all over you but. You know people making jokes or being successful that's not a reason to hate people. It's kind of crazy really. And hatred which comes from the heart partly due to you know envy and things like that is not the same thing is joking around. And being aggressive in a debate I know hate stuff I'm all in fact guys remember I brought him on the fourth hour about Jones like not that long ago. And that was after our first debate. I've listened to stuff on off and on over the years you know I mean not every day but quite a bit I listened to him quite a bit in 2012 13 14. I would pop in and out here and there listen to stuff on over the years.

32:03So I think there's just a lot of temptations in media and because it's it's not just media and. Information it's also kind of show business so the show is element I think is what tempts people to. The hatred part and the envy part the back step part because there's a dictate and show is. You're not you're not successful until your best friends have. Stab you in the back right. In me in median it's a it's a show it's a saying and show is that you're not really successful until you've had all your friends to have you in back then you're successful. And no I'm not trying to say that everything that happens is envy. I'm sure that I've done things and committed actions that provoke people to also be envious or to anger or whatever I'm sure that's happened to you know. So I'm not saying I'm like send less in this whole situation but I will admit that.

33:07Most of what we like the spirit of what I do the place that it comes from 95% of the time is not actually anger or spite or meanness it's just being silly. Like even if I'm making fun of ruse line like it's being silly. Ruse line people are taking themselves way too seriously in this whole domain of stuff like way too seriously. And also people have backwards morals anyway right like. Meaning God and the Trinity is way worse than quote racism whatever that even is. So you notice how people for example the rate is like they're going to have a totally different moral. They're not going to even think that blasphemy is even a big deal right or defacing defaming the icons this kind of stuff like doing demonic things to holy objects like they don't care about that right.

34:12And poo poo what's the wise that there's nothing wrong with that if you're a materialist. But if God exists well then your hierarchy of what's evil is vastly different right like talking shit on the basketball court. It's not a big deal. If it's even a sin it's a very minor sin. So what. But on the internet now I don't know what happened you know talking shit and making jokes and. Whitty banter is like now people want to destroy your life over that now. I don't understand what's happened. But look you can either conform to reality and admit where you made a mistake and do better or you can double triple quadruple down and it gets worse for you. If you want to support the stream you can do so there guys remember we do have some new merch I want to know that we have a domain now dire merch store.

35:21And we got the Soviet stickers this cracks me up. I think this is a t-shirt too if you want a Soviet t-shirt in preparation for the David Wood debate you can get the Soviet tea right here or is it a scroll down. I thought he made a Soviet t-shirt somewhere out here that I'll pass it. Yeah right here got a new tee out. Get that sweet burgundy Soviet t-shirt right there that'll be perfect for the David Wood debate. Shout out to the Ness theus for making this one. Excuse me I might be a little. I'm going to have a little bit of cold because by the way guys we spoke to. Giant crowd the biggest crowd yet for a blood well conference in Kentucky the same day is the debate that's partly why I maybe didn't function 100% the debate.

36:28I was probably functioning at about 85 90% normal dire energy. I was nine in the morning two hours away in Kentucky on what is the Christian doctrine of the state. The Byzantine doctrine of the state so look for that I think it's going to be a controversial and a. I think I will finally confirm my based status when you listen to the Christian doctrine of the state I will also be debating trend horn on that as you guys know debate con. 10 or whatever. I think it's going to be a little bit more. Look for that when it comes up but it was the biggest it was I think Jim said 230 to 250. That's our biggest blood well crowd last year's level conference had I think right at 200. So this time we topped out actually in the middle of nowhere. So if Jim had chosen a more accessible venue for a 300 300 300 300.

37:32But I think you needed to also fund a venue that fit his price range so. Probably 70 ortho bros that was awesome. Great to see you guys out there. Thank you for coming. Appreciate it. I'm sorry I couldn't stay longer. I know that we were kind of in and out but had to go immediately to Nashville and do this. Absolutely insane event. I say that in a good way. I literally absolutely had one percent of fun time. I did even with the drama even with the. You know. The hecklers. Dude I don't care about hecklers really doesn't bother me if I used to heckle comedians when I was doing amateur night. By the way I don't know why stuff on thought he thought was a job says a failed stand up. I didn't even really I did stand up like maybe eight times in nineteen ninety seven or eight and I decided to go and do philosophy. It had nothing to do with I failed out of stand up. In fact the owner of the club liked me to the point where I was hosting the amateur nights so no I was not a failed stand up.

38:37I just simply chose to do other things because I felt like it was very cut throat and I I didn't have the. The limitations on ambition that I think maybe I have a little bit more of that now when I was eighteen doing stand up because I think if I had gone the route of trying to be immediate when I was eighteen it could have been very bad for me like my soul and for. You know what I was into because I was very ambitious like I would heckle the other comedians but I wasn't there and I wasn't there to be your friend I'm here to like get attention and be the you know last one standing on amateur night and you know roasting people etc so I was mean I was actually but I thought well you got to be mean like that's how you win this game right. And I think to a degree you got to have that aggression to be successful in media and so you know I think that's why we have done decently well so far hopefully we can continue to to grow and shoot for the moon but I also think that it's better to be middle aged and do this because.

39:55There's a lot of. There's a lot of navigating human beings that you have to do in this interesting crazy job which is not like any other job. Again this what we do this job is actually closer probably to being a stand up or working in in show this than it is anything else because it's not like being a preacher on a preacher job i'm not a spiritual father it's basically are you a skilled yapper that's what this job is and can you entertain people and teach people and if so then you'll do well but also there's the navigating the mind told that other human beings which. Is a little challenging because I am a little bit of a spur I've got a bit of dose of the tourism. And I don't really always understand what other people are doing or what they mean. But thank god I didn't get so much spurgatism in me that I can't get jokes and laugh.

40:58Because some of them spurgman they don't they can't laugh they don't understand the insulate so I got a weird mix going on but. Anyway all about to say i'm not actually mean that is really not true i'm not actually fighting with everyone I don't know where people get this idea that i'm fighting with everybody that's not true. People pick fights and then if you reply they play the victim that is very common and very annoying but I had a great time shout out the world war debate. And shout out to triple E for getting me on the roster really and 1% grateful thankful I love to send triple E think you did a great job hosting but I again i'm not a huge fan of erudite as you guys know. I was not surprised when she said I lost the debate so I was 100% what I expected. Let's get into it because I do want to start covering it or else we'll be here all night thank you guys for being very generous with the super chats also if you guys would be sure and give world war debate a follow they are here they do plan to do.

42:03Round 3 and so if you want to check them out there there's that channel and you can also find them on grumble and the other outlets as well. With the amics gold card life can feel even more rewarding wherever it takes you are in five times points at prepaid hotels booked online through amics travel then turn your trip into something unforgettable with amics travel. Access to over $500 in annual value on select dining and travel purchases the gold card rewards you for making the most of the experiences you live for learn more and apply today at american express dot com slash explore dash gold terms apply. I started or not in 2013 and we make bike apparel the best part of shop of five for me is our ability to run the business as essentially non technical people were able to admin everything on the back end front end and sell things online easily if shopify were a bike accessory I think it would actually be the bicycle it's the thing that you do the thing on we run the business on Shopify start your free trial on shopify dot com.

43:19With the amics gold card life can feel even more rewarding wherever it takes you are in five times points at prepaid hotels booked online through amics travel then turn your trip into something unforgettable with access to over $500 in annual value on select dining and travel purchases the gold card rewards you for making the most of the experiences you live for learn more and apply today at American Express dot com slash explore dash gold terms apply. Who stop oh yeah yeah LR arid is so about her now you know after the debate she tried to be all nice and talk and be friendly and I was friendly to her because I'm not actually I'm not actually a non friendly person I will be friendly to you in person. But she was like why do you have to be so mean in debates and I'm like I'm not mean in the big aggressive so I don't I literally don't know what you mean by me I'm like do you mean like the rhetorical jobs and jokes because I mean stuff on was bust on me the whole time I don't care I don't mean any gateway you know like when I was in high school when you're bustin on somebody that means like make a fun of dumb about the bust on you I'm about to roast you right now well stuff almost roasted my shirt I don't give a shit about that.

44:39I thought it was funny. So I'm like was that what you think is mean what do you think's mean. And she's like well. Why do you have to be so I forget what she said rhetorical or aggressive and I'm just I'm always I'm like do you did I treat I said do I treat stuff on any different than why I debated you. I was like it's the same level of aggression so what are you talking about anyway I don't know I think that somebody said she said something about having horses or being in the horses and I'm like I think you should enjoy horses and retire from debating honestly you're not made for debating that's not for you. Go enjoy your equestrian arts or whatever you're into get away from the destiny sphere and enjoy your horses. Do not debate it's not for you because you asked me she's like do you think I need to not debate I'm yeah.

45:39I said something like learn the laws of logic and I gave her a book because she was like what what do I do that's bad and debating and I'll tell she's like and I'll tell you what you do this bad and I'm like why didn't ask for criticism but okay. She was like you you're too mean and I'm like again I just literally do not understand what people mean when they say that I mean and I really don't understand what they're talking about. Is it they're like what you interrupt and I'm like well you understand that part of the Bay and interrogate interrogation or like crossfire is interruptions do not know that. And if it's a blood sport open form debate both sides are going to interrupt so what are you even talking about oh it's because you say mean things like what. A joke like I don't know a ball joke like I didn't even really make a ball joke I just said like I'm sorry you guys are bald like I think that's what this the root of this anger is that you two are bald and I'm sorry that I have hair it's not even really a joke it's like halfway a joke.

46:47Is that what's mean like I don't know what the mean thing please somebody illustrate a fat joke about Ibarra like I've never understood what the mean thing is. It's your tone well that's just aggression and debate I don't like again Stefan was just as loud as I was so what are you talking about. Was he not let's get into it you tell me if Stefan was cool calm and collected and I mean did he was yelling at least twice what he's talking about. All right let's get to it this is the opener prompt is God or God let's meet our first debater by way I will take calls. Throughout the debate feel free to request to speak we will go back and forth to people who are in the queue here I know you guys will go to you guys. Who defends God and his existence. All the things that exist come from and are grounded in the divine mind in other words there is an intentional that's propulsive universal being. I'm going to skip this frozen screen here and go to the Dan.

47:49The mirrors the complexity the information coding structure of our world it does give an account for it does make sense of our world and how it works and how we can have meaning how we can have science how we can have logic how we can have math how we can have ethics. Please welcome to the stage. Check out. I don't really see why anybody has any problem with these moves the only criticism I've seen is you work being cringe yeah dude exactly that is always the goal when we hit maximum cringe we are at peak. Dyer so thank you for stating the obvious.

48:51I mean are you mad I was pot locking and drop it pot lock and drop it pot lock and drop it what is that why does that make you mad. Is that really a reason to me mad on our people were getting. Loving it and hating it at the same time power. And yes by the way I did watch a gym Bob stream and I thought was funny that he said. Step on I don't know if he to make right now I didn't realize he was so skeletorian but he is life is limited in power oh God is all powerful life is limited in knowledge God is all knowing. What you've done is you've taken the concept of life and you stripped them away one by one until you have a quivering mass of nothing that explains nothing can't possibly exist and is useless in any rational empirical or scientific life. Shout out to Jim Bup for his humor today and welcome to the stage Jay all right let's turn to the other side of the fight introduce our next debater who claims there just isn't enough proof for the existence of God.

49:53The next step is reality if you don't know whether a tree really exists you can't say that's a tree so you have to start with what exists and what doesn't and from there you can get to what's true and what's false and from there which is the step I've been working on for so long you can get to what's morally right and morally wrong because the study of reality. It's on the evidence of the census you know we've got five senses and it relies upon rational by the way this is what he's been working on since he was like 16 on creating a secular ethics so you better pay attention because he's been working on this since he was a teenager dude. Consistence God does not impress himself on our census become converse with him in the way that you and I are conversing we can't you know touch him we can't call him we can't measure him we can't detect his presence in any way. And so philosophically speaking that's the same as non existence and so that is the challenge that rational philosophy has with God. Of course all the things that he listed as necessary traits to believe in a things existence would undercut all the things that he uses logic mathematics etc meaning values statements value judgments truth values none of those things are strictly speaking physical.

51:04And so that's going to be a significant problem for stuff on and going into this debate when I wrote my opening statement I didn't actually know whether stuff on still had a strict materialist view or you know because when we had our debate six years ago if you guys remember he was a lot more seemingly kind of open to the stuff I was saying about transcendental categories and you know immaterial and variant objects or conceptual objects having some kind of. Other type of existence beyond just pure matter so I don't really know what his position was going to be but I banked on him still being a materialist and I think that played really well because I I hint just significant part of my opening statement on him still having that position and if you qualify to in the debate I would have gone into a different direction. Thankfully he stuck to his guns and actually quadruple down to be ten times worse in terms of his positions then six years ago so that actually made for a really good like everything I expected pretty much happened in the debate I actually did expect him to come with a little more philosophical sophistication and depth a little more analytical strength and that's not what he brought he brought mainly I would say 80% rhetoric.

52:29And again I he's a smart person but I think the thing with what what we do philosophically is we bring a lot of analytical argumentation and critique especially in the domain of epistemology and if you don't know that domain or if you don't study that you're just you can't pull it off with pure rhetoric and that's what he banked on. Please welcome to the stage step on. I don't know why he was screaming at the camera because they said beforehand there's no microphone on you when you do your entrance. By the way they said they wanted a wwf style entrance so that was their request and I'm like well. What would I do as an entrance and like I would dance so that's what I did but stuff on was screaming at the camera when they told everybody beforehand there's no mic on you so you just don't point talking.

53:30Now come on let's say who had actual moves here okay stuff on was 100% like total white dude when he came to his dancing so called. And I was literally like I was making God logic nervous with that dance this we all know why God logic wouldn't even agree to a dance off I just gave you a little taste that was just a little touch of what I can do. Right now it's subway try the 499 sub of the day get a different six inch sub every day for just 499 each like meatball marinara on Mondays tuna on Tuesdays and the BMT on Saturdays it's a different six inch sub every day packed with protein and your choice of chop veggies for just 499 each or make it a meal with chips and a drink for just $2 more but hurry it's only for a limited time and only its subway.

54:35After participating restaurants prices higher in Washington, Alaska and Hawaii and on third party delivery add on taxes and fees for delivery additional. What is your schedule look like long shifts changing hours post university offers flexible online nursing programs keep moving forward with post university become a post person at post.edu. The best way to get a job is to offer in Macy's in the best time of the Macy's season you'll find all the best trends so you can combine your luxury at least and go out with style. Now 30% in the best brands that almost never are offered and 15% less in the best beauty. Also, the staff members receive $20 dollars in ceremony in purchases that qualify for $100 more. The best time of the season of Macy's begins tomorrow. Don't miss it. Now your price is on the list apply in exceptions. You didn't even see the you didn't see the twerk you didn't see the pop lock and drop it you didn't see me. Doing the robot you didn't a little bit of it you didn't see the Roger Rabbit you didn't see the Bart Simpson you didn't see.

55:43Trying to what's the more dances that the. I don't know all of the other one. I'm going to begin the debate please remember to respect each other when I give you time or cues finish your sentence and we will move on we flipped a coin before we started. Jay you won you will open the debate let's put five minutes on the clock for your. Let's take some calls because I don't I'm going to go through it pretty quick. A lot of my opening statement I kind of you know five minutes is difficult for tag so the main challenge for me was how can I get tag in five minutes. And how can I do it where it's sufficiently philosophical but also not so abstract that it loses the audience I do think. Upon reflection on this debate I would have done a lot better if I had made this argument only in the domain of ethics. I wanted to bank on stuff on not being able to do any better in terms of metaphysics and epistemology than he did six years ago because I knew he wouldn't.

56:47But also looking back I would have been more rhetorically audience effective if I had chosen the ethical side of tag so but it is what it is hindsight's 2020 I just banked on the higher tier stuff. What's up dude pet petros what's on your mind. Are you there day what's up. For some reason it's not letting you come in here I don't know laptop what's up. Let me see if I have you muted or blocked or something it's because your poster protected I think it's not going to let you into the space so I don't know sorry petros laptop what's up. Yeah, Jay how you doing money can you. Yes sir what's in your mind. I'm a long long time listener of malony really respect what he does and let you know a little bit of what happened I mean is discord and what happened leading up to this debate was that some of the people in the discord were sharing.

58:01They had like a chat a voice chat explaining everything about like our view as was a docs and all that kind of stuff and he was really seemingly like he was trying to understand and study and then just about a few days before the debate in the discord they were posting a few comments about just like how to deal with this for understanding of like a testimony you know this and it really seemed like okay he's going to he did his homework and all that. But then the game and telling you like he actually sounded I don't know what happened I think perhaps what happened in the discord also there was a lot of people saying we got tickets for coming a lot of people he is a lot of like personal relations like good friendships with people in his crowd so they joined him they came that I can tell you were there I wasn't like there's a lot of fans no he had more fans there than I did yeah right and I think he just fell back on feeling like I have my support my people and all and honestly. He didn't even show any indication that he'd been studying meeting anything and I'm like you just say he's a very intelligent guy very intelligent I think what he's suffering from if I can narrow it down is if you did more of what you did for example you do your experiences and always requesting people to come to debate challenge what anything and of course you can't write to it you don't let people just like make fight fake and gay dumb arguments and stuff you just get to it and if they don't do it it's it's done move on to the next person and so I'm going to do it.

59:29So for him yes this issue where he'll have very long the personal conversations with people so he's not much into like cutting to the logic and the dialogue is kind of like it makes me think that Aristotle's work rhetoric right it's kind of a sadly underrated under that he's more into the rhetoric I say you're more into the dialect it's just like the facts get into the other. Oh absolutely I think I think the majority of his approach was rhetoric in this debate. I think that's just what he suffers from is this now because he got banned from so many platforms he went back into his discord and to his new audience and the people love him he's helping people in terms of like you know helping them with some personal troubles and things that have relationship things but as far as the philosophy he is not getting challenged and I can tell you if you if you wanted to something funny maybe for later if you got the time or something he had a professor called into him on his live stream recently like maybe few months ago he was some philosophy professor. And the guy said hey one of my students gave me your books and you're not really a philosopher you're a joke. It's kind of like distant and Maulin was very kind is very open he let the guy say everything there was no issue there but the guy kept just seeing him just seeing him and it was almost like it was almost like a little bit of like a different way of maths like an FDA is today.

1:00:41FDA is unbelievable patient and flick is a complete douchebag and all that but basically the guy cloud on him he insulted him however Maulin kept like making the same dumb points and then the saddest part is this professor ended up saying at the end well I'm more of a deus and I was basically kind of like too retarded views just getting angry at each other so it was kind of funny so that's not just one invention. Well that's fascinating yeah that's not at all. Now the press is a lot of people's attention and bathroom professionals know what goes behind the tile matters that's why trade pros trust fiber cement party backer board to keep

1:01:47firmly in place resist cracking and help block moisture chosen over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms party backer board what the best build on shop now at participating home depot lows and floor into core stores for more information visit James Hardy dot com slash party backer. to leave with the style now 30% of the best brands that have been offered and 15% less in the best of beauty and the members of story works receive $20 dollars in star money in the purchase that qualify for $100 more the best of the season of the season begins tomorrow not the loss now the press selects apply to exceptions. What I would have expected given what he presented in the debate so yeah I don't know I mean I guess maybe he looked at that crowd and thought well this is more of a kind of a entertainment type of crowd and so the debate that focuses on

1:02:54rhetoric would would play better with an entertainment minded crowd and I could understand that because I was actually nervous throughout most of my debate I I mean I'm going to tell you one of some honestly like I did not think I was losing the debate. I was only concerned with losing the crowd not just the crowd there but also the viewing crowd that would be devoting do the do the voting so I was actually kind of thinking are this this might actually end up being the one where I don't win the poll but turns out I think the poll was like another landslide it was like this of 70 to 80 for me so I guess but Alec I want you to call in so you think I got cooked when stuff on literally made a huge blunder particularly in the second half. So Alec if you want to explain how this is what we don't let people do over here right like if you want to talk you can and you can talk all the smack that you want in the chat.

1:03:57But we ask you to come and do the debate and not just spam with with shit talk so Alec if you're not going to come and explain how I got cooked and explain exactly what happened because my poll the audience poll I won the debate in a landslide I'm just saying that when I'm up on the stage I can't tell like because there was a lot of cheering and clapping like but I couldn't really tell who they were cheering clapping for seem like a couple times. The audience was louder for stuff on so I was like I might be losing the audience on this one. But I don't think I had anything to do with the actual argumentation so Alec you can call in or you can you can hit the road dude. Because I guarantee you you can't call in and explain in what way any of my arguments about concepts being physical were actually explained by I mean you understand how stupid it is to say that a concept is explained by the fossil record that was probably one of the stupidest things. That's at the level of Matt Dillamonky saying that I have value because monkey have value like that was that retarded.

1:05:00I mean there was like there was like five times in this debate where Stefan said stuff as bad as he don't go ahead. He was sorry I just want to say the thing that happened about when he brought up like the 93 million miles across the universe and then you know you was saying you were listening because you were talking about time versus he's talking about like the size of the universe. The basic idea was obvious right everybody would know you could even say okay if I missed or do you misunderstood what my point is you're talking about something you are not observing. Exactly. And I can tell you that there's a bunch of people who are hanging out at the harping are saying you were so literally saying stuff like the saddest photos and coops like you mean one of his employees who actually works on his free domain called your brat. So it's pretty sad like how they're responding unfortunately and really if anybody's listening to this the takeaway is you have to engage and he challenged repeatedly. He has just kind of receded into cocoon and he's not getting pushed constantly that's the main thing for all of us to take from the state.

1:06:03Thank you great comments and yeah I think he should have probably done a more philosophically grounded approach everybody in the arguments that I think that would have been better off but and also I think that he's a little out of touch with where the zeitgeist has moved this isn't 2016 libertarian shit doesn't convince people anymore. So the stuff's dying out the internet debate space has moved way beyond that into the stuff that we talk about whether you like it or not Rachel what's up. Are you there. Rachel or there. Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? Yeah what's up. How you doing? Okay sorry it was my Bluetooth. Hey I'm good how are you? I'm great. So I've also been listening to Stefan forever like I think Andrew found him first back in like 2013 or something. And I as a person really like the guy he and I basically have the same mother we both have the crazy abusive absolutely not case mom.

1:07:12And his stuff really helped me with that back in the day but the thing I think stuff on does is I think that empirics is his safe space because he's said on his show like multiple times that the thing that saved him from growing up in a world of pure chaos and insanity where you know as a little kid you're growing up with this crazy person trying to figure out what's true and what's really you know and empiricism. For whatever reason that's why you told the story about his dream because he's trying to like communicate like as I was a kid growing up I didn't know what was real and how to parse out. In sanity from reality and empirics is his safe space and I think he I think he avoids metaphysics because he can flake sit with woo woo stuff a little bit. You know what I mean so what laptop was saying makes a lot of sense to me that he maybe he was trying to tangle with those concepts but they make you have to force yourself to question some of your empirical presuppositions.

1:08:15Yes correct so I think he avoids going there because he he feels like empiricism is what saved him from crazy town growing up. Yeah that makes sense and the and I was thinking about you know I don't know Greg Coralwood's background but my assumption is that he probably had a bad evangelical upbringing or experience which a lot of times that people have these very negative views of Christianity or God's existence or whatever it's because they had some kind of you know crazy mom or dad or family or you know they were raised in some Pentecostal nutcase situation and you know they saw how silly all that was or they had a scan. The church and you know people leave the church and then they have like a resentment which is understandable but it's also kind of immature right because you know that is everywhere and so how could you base your worldview on oh well there's mean people and bad people over there well guess what they're everywhere there's not mean bad people in atheism like how are you where you going to go where there's no mean bad people know where so it makes sense to that because as I said I'm not going to do that because I don't know where I'm going to do that.

1:09:24Because as his discord guy there called in to say he also focuses a lot on psychology and people's motivations so I think he's done a lot more of that than he has actual like philosophy stuff. Definitely I agree with that and I wish he would get more into it but it you know it was scary for me when I first started really getting into like metaphysics and stuff it's uncomfortable you start find that you start to find that a lot of your presuppositions that you've built your whole life and your whole worldview around like oh shit I'm wrong about some of this and that's tough like people. Yeah it is but that's the only way to grow like that guy said like the only way you're going to do it. The thing I called in to say was as far as this perception that you're mean what I have learned from doing this and watching my husband do this is that that is where that you're mean comes from because when you tear down think of this. If you're talking to a boomer who's like you know they're really brainwashed by the cold war stuff and you're trying to talk to them about anything having to do with Russia or communism and they're just like Russians are evil and the commies are evil and if you even try to like poke at that programming at all they just lose their shit and they get really defensive.

1:10:41It's like that with these types of people where science and a lot of empiricism is like their safe space and that's how they protect themselves from the bad Christians who hurt them or whatever it is right the boogeyman and the closet that they figured out wasn't real because two plus two always equals four. It's like if you poke at that and you start unraveling those things for them that is it's actually painful and they fucking hate you for it. No that's what happens I think because especially pre-sub and tag it's actually hitting the root of the problem whereas a lot of debates are not a lot of debates are debating things that don't really force you to rethink your identity right because a lot of people's identity is wrapped up in these things. Yeah go ahead. I just think that's where the oh my god they're just mean like Andrew just had this the other night he debated Joel Webin he was not mean or rude to Joel Webin at all he was super calm he was super charitable he was really nice the guy because we have probably more in common with him overall then we don't.

1:11:52But at one point Andrew finally got frustrated because the guy just would not answer a question we're going on 90 minutes of just he refuses to answer any direct questions like Stefan yes exactly so finally Andrew called him at door. Now door is not some kind of thing to get all upset about the entire sewing circle evangelical sphere look at Andrew Wilson we knew he wasn't a real question he called a man of God at door he called him a name oh my gosh can you believe it all right. I'm not talking about that. And it really didn't have to do with that was just the one thing they could point to that made them feel better about the fact that Andrew unraveled the guys whole the epistemology in front of the whole world. Yeah this absolutely this is always the lazy easy way out is well rather than actually grappling with what the person said or whether they had a good argument I'm just going to find a way that I'm a better person than and they're bad and actually dismiss them it's just a lazy way out. Yeah yeah that's all it is so that's all I called in to say was that I see that happened with you all the time and it's a pattern that I've spotted that I see it happen it happens with me sometimes but it happens more with you.

1:13:00And with Andrew where it's just like you guys are both really good at unraveling the foundation and the foundation is what people are emotionally attached to and when you and when you kick that out from under them they're like how dare you how could you do this to me and they take it very personally yeah. By the way I was laughing on it you but I didn't realize that when menestiest put up the sample picture of the person where the bucket at it looks like Candace. I didn't see that. I think he did that on purpose as a joke like he found somebody as a sample. It happens to look like Candace so I'm writing the chats like it's Candace on your merge like not that's not really. I just got all my day diary merch by the way so I'm going to have to be wearing it to stuff I just work with myself. Oh thank you I appreciate that yeah yeah I'm going to wrap the day diary merch when I'm out and about doing my things so everybody else better go to the store and pick you up some day diary merch you guys.

1:14:02Appreciate that and look you'll notice we got we got Cholo look and do is appreciate original we got. We got diversity amongst the sample folks you guys look at that diversity we got healthy amounts of diversity look at this. The best way to do it is to offer it now in maize in the event the best of the season in maize is to find all the best trends so you can combine your luxury to do it for less and go with style. Now 30% of the best brands that are almost never offered and 15% less in the best of beauty. Also the members of story wars receive $20 in starman and buy that they qualify for $100 more. The best sale of the season in maize is beginning tomorrow. Don't miss it now. Now your super price is set up.

1:15:02In place resist cracking and help block moisture. Chosen in over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms party backer board what the best build on shop now at participating home depot, lows and floor into core stores. For more information visit James Hardy dot com slash party backer. Now 30% of the best brands that are almost never offered and 15% less in the best of beauty. Also the members of story wars receive $20 in starman and buy that they qualify for $100 more. The best sale of the season in maize is beginning tomorrow. Don't miss it now. Now your super price is set up. What does he look like? That dude could be Arab or Lebanese. We got a Lebanese man wearing the merch. What do we got?

1:16:02We don't have that one that have a dude. Let's see. Let's find another dude over here. That's that that's that. A choloish looking dude. Another choloish looking dude. Let's see what's we got. Cholo looking dude. And look at all the different options dude. I like it. The crown lion dude. I got a roster. Got a roster far ahead. I saw that I was like, is that a roster far? I roster far. I. I. Anyway. Where we at. Petros you want to try again? Hey Jake, can you hear me? So did you. I don't know if you heard. But when that crazy trick was heckling you. Kyla from upstairs shouted out. Get it together, Jay. As if like you were like doing something wrong. I just thought that was so crane. Of course she was. Seriously, like really. And that's just so. Like how hilarious is it that she tried to like. In a non direct way ask you for advice on debating by. You know, like how you were talking about earlier.

1:17:02How she asked you like what she does wrong in debates. It's like wow. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. It's like wow. Like. It's just like that. Yeah. Well, then also she's like, she's like. How come when you talk to people outside of the debate, you're nice, but in the debate, you're mean and like, because it's a debate, like you don't understand the difference between like what's appropriate and various settings like it's not. The purpose of the debate is not to be nice. Like I'm not there to be your your butt, buddy. I'm there to destroy your arguments. That's what a debate is like it. It's like, why are you not being sweet at the chess match? Because I'm here to play chess. I'm not here to be your buddy. That's not what this is. This isn't... You really only get aggressive when you ask a direct question and stuff on, starts filibus-turing and starts storytelling. And it's annoying, especially somebody as smart as him.

1:18:03It's just like, come on, yeah, you got to answer the questions and you call them out. And it's like, if somebody as smart as him for to say that, I don't understand your question. It's like, the only explanation for why you don't understand my question is because you know that if you do understand it and you know you respond to it, that it's going to destroy your whole world view. So it's like, of course, if you call them out on it and it's like, come on, man. Yeah, it's very convenient to suddenly not be able to understand any of the things that Mark is doing. It's exactly. Yeah, totally great. Thank you for that, Patras. Appreciate that. Yeah, I didn't actually hear... I heard somebody scream something and I'm like, but I didn't know who it was, but it makes sense that it was her. But there was a lot of audience noise and heckle. It was kind of hectic and chaotic, but I didn't mind that. Like I enjoyed the pressure and the intensity, the chaos of the heckling. Like all of that didn't bother me at all.

1:19:04Except for when that chick kept shouting, not Kyla, but whoever that woman was in the audience for the first 10 minutes. And I'm like, okay, this is too much. Like this chick will not stop talking. It drove me crazy because I was actually trying to think through an argument at that point. And remember, I had got up and did a whole talk at nine o'clock in the morning before doing this debate at night. So I was already a little exhausted, but... Yeah, appreciate those comments. Let's do one more call. We'll go back to the debate. Ted, what's up, dude? Ted, what's up? You have to unmute, Ted. Ted, good to see you. What's up, man? I'm not bad, man. I was, I was, he happened to unmute. Are you taking questions about other things not related to the debate this evening? I guess if it's, if it's,

1:20:05depends on what the question is. Well, I was gonna ask something about room to talk to someone, but okay, yeah, that's fine. Go ahead. If it's something quick, it's not like an hour long topic question. I hope not. So I was trying to defend the order of exposition against Vatican II saying it's contradictory. Yeah. I had someone bring up a people document from 1074. They're trying to say that Roman Catholicism has actually always been consistent in the fact that Muslims worship the same creator. No, I actually addressed this. I actually called it out, not the long ago, because it's in the, it's in the, the new and the Pew updated densing or verb thing that I've, yeah, I've already covered it. Yeah. Let me see, how did I, let me see how I guess in this, it's saying,

1:21:07no, you understand this is after the schism. So this is the Goryan era papacy demonstrating their, their post, Philly Oakway retardation. And at the same time in Byzantium, if people were converted from out of Islam, they had to renounce Islam as a damnable heresy. And thus, and you had to explicitly say, no, we do not worship the same God. It's just a Byzantine, like convert, like if you converted in the Byzantine Empire, you had to make these kind of abgerations of heresy. So you can just look at the abgeration of heresy profession, but it doesn't matter whether it's pre-schedish. That's the Orthodox views I'm trying to say. The Orthodox perspective has never been the Islam and Judaism or Islam and Christianity the same God. I guess I'm trying to do it internally. I guess it would be an internal critique

1:22:09just within Catholicism is how I'm trying to, we'll ask him somebody before the schism that says that. Sure, yeah. Yeah, because it also, in this it's saying that we believe and contrast one God. And I guess it was some letter to, I don't know, some Muslim guy. And that's saying believe, but in those true top 8, it doesn't say believe as if we do adore the same God. So I guess that would be different. Yeah. I'm looking for it. Hold on. Okay. Is there any what? Is there any other, I guess I'll go back to some of your other videos to get posted about this, but here I found it immediately after the great schism, the papacy Gregory the seven, this is the one that's behind Dictatus Papi. He's the first one to pause it. The heretical idea that Christians and Muslims

1:23:09work with the same God in 1076. Okay. And now here it is underneath it. I've got it right here. Here's the abduration. I can't do this. Here's the. Oh, God see. Oh, I'm sorry that's not it. That's not the abduration. Aduration of here. See, okay.

1:24:15I don't you have to do some researching it. I don't have it on hand, but it does exist. It does exist. It does exist and it's always the case that like there's no, there's nobody that says this. I mean, it's like it's like thinking that basil says that you know me as the area of the radical area. And orthodox worship the same God, nobody could read basil and come with that can come away with that conclusion. It's crazy. Sure. Also, there's there's one other thing that. By the way, again, it's your point like your your body there, like this is an argument in our favor, not in his favor. And all it shows is that the Roman Catholic Church contradicts because what's the Pope? Is it innocent? Who calls them the damn damnable infidels? Well, how are they? How do you worship the same God if they're, he calls them demonic too. I was looking for this one thing. It's a. I have it in my talk in my opening statement for the debate with,

1:25:18I know I can find it. It's in my opening statement for the debate with Trent Dordy. It's so much. You don't have to search up all that. No, I do. I want to understand. I want to do it because I, it, people need to see this. Okay. Cool. Here we go. To see you. Okay. I'm, I was here in you live, but then the streams like the. I haven't gotten to it yet. It was relaxed. No, you get it. The stream is like the videos behind for me. I don't know, it's one of my. Kitchen and bathroom professionals know what goes behind the tile matters. That's why trade pros trust Fiber cement party backer board to keep tile firmly in place, resist cracking, and help block moisture. Chosen in over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms, party backer board, what the best build on. Shop now at participating home depot, lows, and floor into

1:26:20core stores. For more information, visit James Hardy.com slash Hardy Backer. With the Emmett's Gold card, you can earn rewards across dining and travel. Find out your welcome offer, which could be as high as 100,000 points. Apply today at american express.com slash explore dash gold terms apply. Kitchen and bathroom professionals know what goes behind the tile matters. That's why trade pros trust Fiber cement party backer board to keep tile firmly in place, resist cracking, and help block moisture. Chosen in over 40 million kitchens and bathrooms, party backer board, what the best build on. Shop now at participating home depot, lows, and floor into core stores. For more information, visit James Hardy.com slash Hardy Backer. All right, let me make this big.

1:27:21I saw it a bunch of these in the debate with Trindority and they didn't even want they refused to address this argument, even though they agreed in the debate to these topics. So keep in mind that they were so dishonest and such ridiculous cowards that they're anyone a dress or defend their own church's ridiculous positions. See, how can I make this full screen? I can't. Yeah, so here's Pope urban the second. By the way, this has the sources underneath it. This is Fordham University. All who die by the way, land or sea against the pagans. This is the crusades, the infidels at worship demons. OK, 12 identical council Jews and Muslims are not brothers

1:28:22in the faith. So this, this demonstrates the contradiction you see. So this is the 12th. This is the rummaging Catholic, Lateran 4, 12, 15. They are not brothers in the Abrahamic faith. This refutes Vatican II. Lateran 4, the Caliphate must suppress Judaism and Jewish power. And by extent, it would be Islam as well because they're both anti-Tranitarian. If you abandon the fifth crusade, you are excommunicated. Muhammad is an anti-Christ. How do you worship the same God of Muhammad and anti-Christ? This is the fifth crusade, Pope innocent, the third, and his people, Buhl, Quya, Ma'yore, 15 ecumenical council for the Roman Catholics. Islam is blasphemous, and their public worship must be forbidden. Now, why is it forbidden if it's the same God? Council of the end under Pope Clement, this is the Roman Catholic ecumenical councils. They are the faithless enemies of Christ,

1:29:23unclean blasphemers. How is that the same God? Pope Calictus III, 1455. The Muslims are the sons of the devil. Reprobate faithless, Muhammad. How are they gonna be the same God? And that's night and day with those who are taught to eat three in Limit 10th, 16. What are the biblical passages say? The nation's worshiped devils, sacrifice to devils. Jesus says to the Unitarian Samaritan St. Fautini, the woman of the well, you do not know what you worship. We worship what we know. So, why is Jesus not saying, oh, we worship the same God, woman of the well? You're a Unitarian Samaritan, so am I. In fact, the Samaritan position is way closer to the Jewish position. So Jesus should have all the more said, you guys are way more way closer to us, right?

1:30:26Jesus says in John 5, you do not have the love of God in you. If you believe Moses, you believe in me, but you don't believe him, so you do not have me. Islam, Islam is a religion premised on Aryan and historian, Heresys. It rejects the deed of the son. It rejects the Trinity. Allah is not a father. Allah is also the creator of evil. Or God is not the creator of evil. Allah has limited knowledge, according to seven places in the Quran and according to Emanhtamiya. Islam is premised on rejecting God's father. Islam is thus an apostasy explicitly from Christ. You remember in the debate with Trent Dordias, I said, are you telling me that if a person like Jake, the Muslim metaphysician says, I reject the Trinity. He still worships the same God as us. And he said, yes, it's all stupid. So Islam falls into the same failure of attaining to the true worship in the one God by rejecting the son. One John 2, 22, if you do not have the son, you don't have the father. There you go.

1:31:29Now that's the same papacy that the same papacy that calls Crusades, then goes and worships in the synagogues of the mosques, night and day with the ancient cannons. John Paul II may Saint John the Baptist protect Islam. I've seen how this stuff is great. I say, Maxima says, the God of the Old Testament is the Trinity. Not a generic Unitarian monad that all the religion shared. So anyway, show them all of that, dude. Thank you, Ted. Appreciate that. I got to go. We're now we're going to get through this. We don't get back to this introduction. You will start now. I'm not here to debate the existence of God. I'm here to call upon my fellow strong black bipoc individual who identify with me and by appealing to bipoc strong blackness. I've already won this debate as the emperor of Exantium. We already know how this is going to solve how those powers came to fruition.

1:32:32I'm going to go. By the way, shout out to Sam Tripoli for becoming basically Mario from Super Mario Brothers. He looks like Mario. I like it. All right, let's get into it. As you guys know, yes, I do make the transcendental argument for God. But I make a version of it here that hopefully will be accessible. We don't want it to be too abstract. And so as we talk about the elements of a world, you we have ethics. We have metaphysics, which is what is what isn't what what is reality. We have epistemology, which is our theory. I'll be skipping some of the like ridiculous parts. So we will never make it through this whole thing. But I'll skip some of the like little bus string and storytelling. Zaynwood disagree. You go ahead line. I want to go to you guys first. Don't know what's up. If you guys want to support the stream, you can do so through super chats. Super chats are done through stream labs. What's up, man? Don't know. I'm you. I don't understand what the shit talkers never come to debate.

1:33:35Don't know, man. Did you turn your mic on? On mute. Hamster. Hamster, what's up? Hey, Jay, what's up? Hey, good. I just wanted to know your thoughts on the recent Jesus and what not to be with David knocker, Erhan. I don't know if you've commented on that yet or anything. I'm not watching you have it. I've been literally driving and doing debates. So I went. I had no time to watch that. I did take a poll though, because I was curious what the audience thought. And every poll I've seen has David winning. Yeah, yeah. I watched most of it and it was it was pretty solid. There was one quote that was in Latin where they were talking about October.

1:34:36It was from St. Hillary. And that was kind of a difficult quote for for Noah to understand. But yeah. Well, what what what. I mean, well, who like what was was there a clincher moment or moments for David? For David, it was mainly that moment, but that was mainly because the was mainly because Noah didn't really understand. Like it's it's not you know, Noah was using scholastic terms. So first of all, it was that moment and it was also the other moment where he was talking about real distinctions between the persons and the Trinity, right? So in scholastic terms, that means like ontological difference. So like they actually become separate persons, but that got clarified. So they ended up, you know, he ended up because initially what happened is Noah accused him of polythism because of that.

1:35:37Yeah, they're just he he's just repeating all the stuff that Wagner told us so stupid. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. But other than that, there was the St. Hillary quote and that was basically was talking about eternal manifestation. But because Noah's a Roman Catholic, it doesn't believe in that. So he was reading Philly Oakway into it. Other than that, most of the debate was basically, you know, the average Philly Oakway debate. Nothing too crazy about it. But one funny thing was during the Q&A section, I had the idea to send in a super chat where I asked him the same question that was asked to Richard Price on the debate on Calcidon. Sorry, not debate on Calcidon, but it was about Calcidon basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it was the the famous clip where Richard Price says the East did not recognize Roman jurisdiction.

1:36:43Right. And I asked him that same question in the super chat. And you know what his answer was, his answer was, yeah, I just take Eric your bar was positioned on it. When Eric your bar is positioned was the one that got out. Yeah, that's that's embarrassing, honestly. I mean, I don't know why these guys are so they're so arrogant and they're so prideful and they have no idea about the complexity of this today. So good. I'm glad he lost and that's what I expected Gary. What's up? Hello. Hey. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I don't know. It went super quiet. Sorry about that. Yeah, I had a quick question. Like, Malone who's been out this for like decades seems like since I've been in college, he's been doing this.

1:37:44And Matthew chapter seven and second, he basically says, you know, don't argue with idiots. He didn't answer any single one of your questions, nor do I think that he was even capable of it. He's considered some intellectual to consider him intelligent. And like, do you think you gain anything from from arguing with him and his minions? I'm not trying. I think you did great in the debate. But like, do you think it ultimately leads anywhere? Do you think you're like you're you're forcing your. No, it does because I saw six years ago, many people in his audience could murder orthodoxy from that debate. Because that original debate got seen by, I don't know, maybe 200,000 people across all the clips and the, you know, the main debate. So yeah, it is effective. Do I think he's intelligent? Yeah. Why he chose to do the debate on pure rhetoric, we can only speculate as we speculated earlier.

1:38:4980 90% of what he argued was just rhetoric. So, you know, whatever knowledge he has a philosophy, I feel like he, there's huge gaps because whether that's intentional, just because he doesn't care. And it's not that relevant to a big audience. I don't know. But he doesn't know anything about metaphysics. It isn't anything about epistemology. And to me, it's bizarre that he would not at least have familiarity with all of that stuff. But then again, he says his whole project is to provide an ethic. Right. He wants to be an ethical philosopher for a secular atheist position. Well, that is a doomed project because you'll never get an ought from an ass because you can't have universal claims. And really needs to read David Hume because if he's going to be an atheist skeptic type of person, he's going to be grappling with all the challenges that David Hume positive. Arguing the atheist position to be consistent. So, Hume is the consistent atheist. Most of the atheists are not consistent with him because if you follow the human route, you can't debate.

1:40:01There's no debating because there's no laws of logic that you can justify. You can't justify induction. You can't justify causation. You can't justify the external world. I put that in my opening statement to acknowledge these three branches make up what it is to have a worldview where a paradigm. This argument will specifically argue that the Christian paradigm, the Orthodox Christian paradigm, gives a justification and account and explanatory value analysis that only can come from a worldview where you have a divine mind who's omniscient, who's personal, who has reason and thus a world governed by providence and those laws. Of course, the transnational argument argues that the foundations of our philosophical worldview, those ethical principles, those causal principles, those metaphysical principles, those epistemic principles, they don't exist as pure matter. Where do they exist? What are they? They have an abstract conceptual universal type of existence.

1:41:01So that stuff on had committed and would be committed in this debate to hardcore materialism. And so I threw down a gambit, I gambled and I was right on this much like laws of logic, much like mathematics, etc. These transcendental categories are not and cannot be located only in the physical world. If you remember some years back, Stefan and I had this exact same debate and Stefan was struggling to understand the difference between the number seven as a concept itself as a universal thing and seven coconuts. I want to reiterate that we don't locate those types of abstract conceptual things in matter itself because it would be self refuting. Matter itself cannot be a universal, it cannot give you a particular law of identity type of identification when you pick out objects in the world. How do we get to God from this? Well, let me start with a couple points of like, and I had to rush because the only five minutes for the opening statement, what I mean by that is, if everything is just matter and motion, and all we are, or all we can really get down to is molecules and atoms in motion and in flux, then you can't pick out an object with identity over time.

1:42:11That's what that means. Thus you can't do science. Science presupposes the ability to pick out objects that they have identity over time, that they have some essential characteristics that you can pick out to make them one class or type of objects and not another type of object. The problem is that if everything is just matter and motion, that's all really just a human construct. And if it's a human construct, you're not really describing the external world, you're describing interpretation. That's devastating to his position. And so most of this debate is me hammering a version or a variation of that point home that the seven that you're calling the set of the coconuts is not the same thing as the molecules to make up the coconuts. Possession or something like the law of identity, if the world itself is pure matter and motion, if it's just matter and motion, there's no real identity that we're picking out. In fact, as David Hume pointed out, being consistent with the atheist paradigm, there's no real justification for causation in the world.

1:43:14Now one thing I know is too in Stefan's approach, and this is a very normy approach a lot of people do this. When they hear me say, what's the justification? They think of it in a colloquial sense. No, I'm talking about in a philosophical sense, not a colloquial sense. So when I ask for justification, I mean justified true belief and get to get your problem. I'm not talking about the colloquial sense of how dare you how are you how do you think you're justified in taking this action? They actually literally think of it like a normy colloquial like mundane sense of you think you're justified and self defense. You think you're justified in punching the drunk guy at the bar. That is not what we mean. And any philosopher should know that. So it's really embarrassing and it's kind of an insult to me that I have to debate people that don't know like a very common level one epistemology class issue.

1:44:18And when I see the people in the comments to support stuff on. And this on this they don't even know what justification is have no idea what you would learn in a like basic epistemology class. But this is like absolutely crucial to debates. I don't understand why people can't get this. They actually just think, oh, my justification is if I tell a story. No, that's not what justification is telling the story is not the justification. You might have a story or something like that. Everybody's going to tell some grand narrative. But we're asking what are the good reasons to believe that that is the case within your paradigm. If materialism is true, what are the good reasons to believe that there's immaterial things? That's like 50 to 60% of this debate is that. And I think he doesn't understand it. Yeah, I also think as people said he doesn't understand an internal critique conveniently. The reason why it's a question of the question is, what is the definition because causation is what gives us our principle of induction.

1:45:18The principle of induction is just simply the idea that nature operates in a regular uniform way. The principle of induction itself is not found in nature. It is also one of the things I wish I had said was, you know, you believe in axioms. But an axiom is not a molecule. Where are the axioms that you believe in? Where are they? And eventually he ends up saying they're in the mind. Oh, but the mind is also just great matter molecules. So which great matter is the axiom? That's how silly this is. So not observed empirically. It goes beyond empirical sense data. Likewise, cause an effect or causation, the causal reality. It's also not like have this is just for what David Hems says like where under the microscope is cause. I know that you believe in cause. I know you see one bill your ball hit another bill your ball. But in that event, you're calling that causation as if that's a universal principle of cause and effect. Maybe it is.

1:46:19But how do you get that from one instance of an event that that's a universal phenomenon? Oh, because it's always been that way. Yeah. So what? How do we know that it always will be? That's what universal means, right? Identical to physical objects. It's a metaphysical claim. How do we justify metaphysical claims? If we only believe in the material. These things go beyond the material much like these logical laws that we mentioned, the law of non contradiction, the law of identity. Those things are are not and cannot be found in any individuals sense data. They are thus universal principles. Other principles as well fit within this domain like telos purpose intentionality. Is this a world with no intentionality? Is it a distilological universe? It has no ultimate purpose? Is it a purpose? Is it a purpose? Is it purpose? And thus it has meaning? Thus individual microscopic levels of meaning, such as our debate right now where we speak meaningfully with sentences using predication.

1:47:20Pre-supposing meaning. Meaning cannot be found in pure raw matter. Thus meaning itself is another one of these types of transcendental categories. How do I get to God from that? Well, it just so happens that on the Christian worldview with a Christian metaphysic and a Christian epistemology and a Christian ethic, it makes perfect sense. Why? There would be these types of non empirical things which undergird the very possibility of debate and logic itself. Thank you, Jack. Now, they think that I just said God just is. No, that's not the argument as we've said for 20 years. The argument is, any world view, any knowledge at all to be justified true belief knowledge and not opinion but real knowledge requires a bunch of principles. To be the case, for example, knowledge requires a noir. The one who's doing the knowing knowledge requires an external world knowledge requires regularity of nature knowledge requires the laws of logic knowledge requires that sentences and propositions have meaning and truth value.

1:48:24Truth value requires some assessment of the good or the true versus the false and the you ought to choose the true versus the false. So it's both metaphysical and ethical at once. None of those things are found in matter. Obviously, so to have a world view requires all of these non material things. That's preconditions. That's a transcendental argument. Okay, well, where are all those things? Where how are they? Where are they? How do we know? That's why it's a world view argument. In the Christian world view makes perfect sense why those things exist and they're not proven empirically because they're non empirical. So it's like laws of logic. Thus the whole argument in this debate ends up being showing the self refuting nature of materialism that a materialism is true knowledge is not possible.

1:49:24Truth is not possible. The situation is debate is not possible. And Stefan's like, well, I can do it. We're doing it. Yeah, it's not possible in a justified way. The fact that we're able to do it means that your world view is not true. That's the argument, but they don't get it. They think that you're saying, God just is. So God just is. No, that wasn't the argument. The argument is if there's knowledge, then there must be preconditions. The preconditions can only be justified and grounded in the type of being that God is. That's argument. All right, Stefan, you're you have five minutes on the clock. Your intro starts now. So when I was a kid, I was about six. So I don't know what, but he actually went with the ghost story. His opening statement is a ghost story. I don't know why he thought that would be a good opening statement. I gave a rigorous philosophical argumentation presentation about the transcendental argument, tried to make it very clear from a metaphysics line of argumentation and an epistemology line of argumentation and his approach is I'll tell a story about ghost, ghost story when I was a kid.

1:50:34I was going to boarding school and I came home from boarding school and I went to bed and I had a dream that a headless man was chasing me through a forest. Really very scary dream. Any of these bony fingers and just his bony fingers were coming around my neck like some deranged Massachusetts mom. That's her. I woke up and I woke up and you know, we've all had this bad dream. You wake up at just the right time. And I woke up and in the shadows of my room, I looked to the left of my bed and I saw a headless man kneeling beside my bed. And I'm like, is this some crazy inception wake up wake up wake up kind of dream situation. So terrifying. I like hands were shaking as a kid. I turned on the light. And it was not a headless man kneeling beside my bed. I had hung my jacket on the chair that was right beside my bed. So where does the headless man exist? Well, he existed in my dream for sure. I can't prove it to you, but he existed in my dream.

1:51:35By the way, I've got my notes right here. You saw me writing. This is my no pad from the debate. A lot of the things I didn't get to right. So I took a lot of notes when he was talking and a half of the time. We didn't even get into, you know, most of what my other critiques were. So I'll bring out some of those here in a minute. And when I woke up, I thought he existed in my room. But he didn't. I made a mistake with additional information. Midnight. I made a mistake. So where does the headless man exist? Headless men don't exist in the real world. Or at least if they do, they don't chase kids through forests. I guess they could be communists, but they don't exist in the world. So the question, of course, is does God exist? So we have to define God and we have to define existence. And we see if we put God in the bucket called existence. So God is an all powerful, all knowing, being outside of space and time who created the universe, who sustained the universe and in many accounts is going to end the universe. Hopefully not during my speech. That would not be a good look. But actually, it might be a really good look. It would be very powerful. Like it's one thing to be de-platformed by YouTube and PayPal and all of that.

1:52:37But to be de-platformed by the Almighty, that would be that would be something. So that's God. And then we have to define what is existence. Well, existence is that which conforms to reason and evidence. Now, first huge mistake was right there. Because Stefan in the majority of this debate was one percent antithetical to anything metaphysical. While at the same time making all kinds of vast scandalous metaphysical claims, right. And I didn't want to let any of it go. Obviously in the debate, you have to pick certain things to hone in on. But that was a huge wild claim. Existence is that which conforms to reality and matter. I think is what he says. Evidence being the evidence of the senses, all of this stuff we touch, we're composed of matter. And I'm getting. So evidence is only five cents a day. And just a basic bitch empiricism, not even empiricism is what this is called.

1:53:37The problem is that. And then the one that we have to define is the metaphons rhetorical critique of God as the being that's like the headless man in the dream. That critique applies to all of the non conceptual immaterial and variant things that aren't matter. So in other words, the absurdity of this position is immediate immediately seen from the outset. The myth mathematics, meaning values, value judgments, the past, the self, the mind, universals, time, all of those things are immaterial. And you just heard stuff on tell you that anything like that is flying spaghetti monster headless man superstition. This is the folly of atheism right there. It's that simple. Because he doesn't keep to his presuppositions. He wants it both ways. He wants to have a world with the metaphysical principles and immaterial immaterial and variant things that exist in the Christian paradigm and don't exist in his world view.

1:54:55So they don't exist, but he wants to use them and operate like they do. That's that simple. This debate, the trans and argument here isn't even that advanced or difficult. It's the literal that simple. Say matter, I mean matter and energy, but we just use the shorthand of matter. Matter is consistent, predictable, universal has stable property. Oh, huge mistake right there matters consistent, predictable, universal. As an empiricist, he doesn't even know or realize that you can't make the leap to universal claims on the basis of restricted naive empiricism. In other words, all knowledge as you just were going to say is restricted to immediate sense data. And it's almost like he's not even familiar with the many, many, many challenges to naive empiricism. For example, the idea that all knowledge comes through sense data, that proposition itself is not something that you learn in sense data.

1:55:59There's no sense data that can tell you that. You can make that leap, but now we need to know on what basis you logically are making that leap from instance, instance, instance of particular information to therefore it is universal, meaning at all times in all places. You don't know that. It's a massive invalid non-sequitur leap that you're making. Maybe it is true, but you can never get to that on the basis of particular instances. And you don't even know of these particular instances of observation one observation two observation three you don't know that they're even connected. That's an assumption that matter itself doesn't justify. In fact, if all there is is matter, there's no reason to believe that one instance of an observation is identical to the next that objects have identity over time. It's one of the classic problems that David Hume said centuries ago. And as an educated philosopher, he ought to know the basic critiques of his position.

1:57:03But not only does he not know them. He conveniently ignores them. It doesn't seem to want to know that. I would want to know the major challenges to my position to be able to adequately refute them. But if you get so boxed in and so arrogant that you're not willing or can't listen to any basic critique of your position. This is the result you end up speaking to hundreds of thousands of people and saying stupid shit. You sound like a seventh grader. When I'm asking you basic philosophical questions that your own position has had critiqued for centuries. These aren't my arguments. I'm just repeating what David Hume said about his own position. You understand, David Hume has his position. He has the same position as stuff on, but he's more consistent because he says. Yeah, I'm a skeptic. But I can't justify any of these claims. I can't logically prove causation, the external world, the self, the past, identity over time.

1:58:06And all those things are necessary to do anything in the world to live, to build buildings, to pay your taxes, to build rockets, to do science. All of those things, pre-suppose these basic principles that we're talking about. Michael, what's up? He also did the crackers in the pantry fell, too, by the way. What's up? Michael, I'm here. What's up? I was just saying, I think, overall you did a great job, man. He was a good debate. Thank you. That's what's argument basically came down to that things happen. Therefore, God doesn't exist. And, you know, thankfully, I was able to overcome that in high school. But I think just a little bit of constructive criticism, you know, because I watched you off, you know, I've been working on it for almost two decades now, going on two decades.

1:59:09Okay. And I like a lot of your stuff. Okay. Go ahead. You're brilliant. You're smart. You don't have to give me all the accolades. Just tell me the critique, bro. I would just say maybe taking yourself a little more serious might help a little bit. I don't know what the goal is, you know, the being all goofy and stuff. I just I don't quite understand it, I guess. I mean, that's me. So you're like asking me to not be the person that I am. So. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. That's just how you are. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I mean, overall, that was a good. Thank you. I appreciate it. I do have one more question. I was wondering if anybody's going to put that own bedroom and bag it in this place. I cannot stand that guy. I just don't think there's any real real point in doing a debate or an interaction because he said that he doesn't even care about debate in the community. He just wants to turn it into kind of like a roasting session. And I was like, well, then let's do a roasting session.

2:00:13And then when I said that, he said, well, then you're scared to debate. And I'm like, well, you just said you don't care about the Trinity. So why are we going to debate something and just give you the opportunity to blast fame? Because he just wants to blast you and make you mad. And I'm like, I'm not going to do that if you're not serious about the issue. And then he's like, I'll see you're running. And I'm like, there's no, there's no point. Again, like not everybody is worth interacting with or doing a debate with now stuff on his worth it because stuff on at least wants to give the impression of debating the topic, right? Or at least more so than these other types of people. Tyler, what's up? Hello. Hey, what's going on? Yeah, I should have a question about you mentioned that if you want more with the ethics, it might have worked better with the audience. And I kind of agree with that. It's kind of wondering like with all these normy people, they all seem to have this innate sense of right and wrong almost even with these very liberal people is just agreeing about what's right and wrong.

2:01:20Like, is there a scriptural basis of why almost seems like all people have this? Yeah, Romans one and two talk about the moral law is written on everybody's heart because we made the image of God. So we have a we have a conscience that testifies to good and evil because we're made the image of God. That's precisely why. But that does not mean that wicked people actually understand or no justice truly because they actually misuse these things. So great question. I appreciate that, but that's exactly as Romans one and two is about that only what's up? I mean, the this whole debate is like set up like w w f. So what do you mean be serious? And this is just like half its tongue and cheek man. What's up only? Hey, what's up? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, I can hear you.

2:02:21Yeah, I actually like like the emotionalism of Catholicism like Christ's mystical marriage to St. Catherine, that seems very in line with like his intimate character and stuff. Are you heterosexual? Yes, why? Because you don't sound like a heterosexual if what makes you think Christ is Christ is emotionalism. You sound like a woman. No, why? Like why do you think that it's good to be literally because it's not good to be emotional and that's not what Christianity is about your totally wrong. I just feel like that's his character. You said that's that's how you feel illustrates the very problem. In the Bible God is very intimate. He's very loving to his people. He's not like. Yeah, but what do you think love is?

2:03:21Like what do you mean what I think love is like a father like love like he's like a husband to his people? Are you a husband? No, I'm not a husband. Okay, do you have a girlfriend? Have you ever had a girlfriend? I had one once, but no, I'm not. Okay, now I'm not trying to be mean to you. I'm being honest to you about guy to guy like this is your this is your whole problem. Everything that you said is your problem. You have a radically wrong idea of everything in your whole world view. I was wrong with everything you said is wrong. No, listen to me when I see Christ like the Catherine thing I think he called Christ is so cool. He did that like you got to be trolling your woman or your jokes in this guy's this guy's trolling. I'm not joking. That's a troll. Tee what's up? If you're sir, if you're being serious, I don't know what to tell you to go watch this.

2:04:21I'm just saying if I'm insane at the beginning, he says this has no existence in a philosophical sense and I'm like wait in a philosophical sense. What is he talking about? He was saying that God is no existence in a philosophical sense. I'm like, what a philosophical sense. Whether you think God is physically. Well, he just says existence equals matter. So that's it. And even says like there is there's so many rules that matter. It all makes sense. Like we make stuff up for how the stuff works. How do we do? We take guesses. Like what are you talking about? Yeah, and he's acting like right. He's acting. That's called. It's called the crackers in the pantry fallacy. Maddell hunting did it. It's something that it's not a real fallacy in the sense of like a, I mean, technically it is, but it's not official on any list because it's a way to kind of poison the well to slant the debate from the outset.

2:05:29In other words, you say we all know that the only things that exist are things that are empirically verifiable since God is not empirically verifiable. God doesn't exist. So it's more of a slighted hand trick to suit from the outset. You have this metaphysical dogmatic idea about what you're trying to push. And since you you argue that well, we all know that existence just means matter and sense data and sense God is a part of matter sense that God can't exist. I mean, he literally did that. It's like, no, we don't know that the only thing that exists is just matter. And you can't prove that. That's a universal. That's a negative claim. You can't prove it a universal negative. So how do you know that there's nothing that exists other than matter. On your empiricist worldview. So that's insane. First of all, but it's a crack on the pantry files. If you assume that everything is proven in the same way. So the argument is basically just setting it up to where if you can't empirically demonstrate something that it doesn't exist. Okay, but God is a non empirical being. Why would he be expected to be proven the same way that empirical things are?

2:06:30Right. In other words, yeah, we go and measure the temperature of the water. It's boiling at 100 degrees. That's how we measure and know the boiling point of water. But that's not the same way that you, for example, do law. It's not the same way that you do study linguistic philosophy. It's not the same way that you study the laws of logic. Right. The way that you prove something temperature at which it boils is not the same way that you do a math problem. It's not the same way that you. Cash out what a universal is. So it the argument assumes that things are proven in the same way. But they're not. And we all know that not everything is proven in the same way. But the atheist materialist attempts to rig the game from the outset by saying. Well, we all know that the only only way to prove something is to prove it empirically. No, we don't know that.

2:07:30By the way, you don't even know that itself. That's a universal claim. Ben, what's up? Ben, I'm you. I'm you. Yes. What's on your mind? Another man. I just wanted to say great job. And I had to be. And I'm surprised you didn't end up with a mushroom stand from all the stalecs. He's flying around. It was a little rough. Yeah, I mean, yeah, like all the Biden level stories they went on. Exactly. That's rough. And green idea, by the way, let's start a chill. Orthodox Church will come out with special Bible.

2:08:30We'll call it the diurnetics. It's going to be awesome. It'll be gangbusters. Yeah, they're chill. The dogs. You got to be chill. The dogs. Zen Noah. What's up, man? Is the new. Yeah, I'm. Yeah, I'm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hey, how you doing, man? Good. Um, I personally like to say thank you. Speak up. Yeah. So I am on air pods. Firstly, I'd like to say thank you. One of my first interactions in the Orthodox church was being in the courtyard after liturgy. And there were a lot of dudes just talking about you. And I thought that was pretty incredible. I also did one thing that I wanted to talk to you about today's. Is I'm a catacumin now. So I just started. I'm just on my journey. Um, I know the basics. That's all I know. And man, I got to say you kept your cool.

2:09:31Incredibly well with that moderator. I don't that pissed me off listening to it. And how do you keep your cool? I'm like, I didn't give my cool. I was getting really mad. I was more mad at him than I was a stuff on. Yeah. Well, you gave it to him, but like to the extent that he had deserved it, you didn't really go off the rails. You continued. You didn't go off track at all, though. You were your sharpest a razor when it came back to. Dr. Whoever the hell is name is. To who came back to who? Um, what's his name? The, the, the, the sky. Stuff on. I'm sorry. He's not a doctor. Yeah, anybody. But no, that was a good debate to watch. But I also want to give Mr. Step on you a thank you. Or sort of opening my eyes because I didn't really. Understand the, the whole argument too much until I heard you and him going back and forth.

2:10:34I heard you and him going back and forth, but I started really looking into the transcendental argument and actually paying attention for once instead of just having you in the background or just sort of listening. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, I think actually tag is best understood into debates. I mean, I understood tag from listening to Lawson's time to bathe like 10 times. So I think you're right. That's the best way to go about it. But thank you for that. Big stew, what's up? Hello. Hey, what's up? It was up. This is exactly about, I guess, APism, but more so about old versus young earth. I mean, that's not really the topic tonight, but what's your question? Yeah, I guess it was more so like specifically, I guess why you argue for like a young earth creationist that has happened to your points. I mean, I got a lot of videos on the philosophical problems

2:11:35with evolution. So why am I supposed to believe that evolutionary narrative is true? I'm not even really arguing for evolution. I guess it's in earlier points, brought up for a young earth, specifically where it's like anti-evolution. I mean, because I believe the biblical account, so you can check out Genesis creation, early man. Don't know what's up. Yep. So agree the way. I just wanted to say that what I think is the same where you say that philosophy today is sort of conclusive, that after listening to Stack of Moon, that I love the bait is useless. Because I guess what these sort of people they like to do is they do a lot of storytelling. So that the bait is storytelling versus storytelling. Right through it versus right through it.

2:12:35You just accept my essential presuppositions and I'll just accept yours. And then don't go back for four hours. And then in the end, they'll just all less disagree to disagree that it never holds anywhere. Right. And I think what you did sort of calling it out, they're like, they can't believe you've done that. Everyone allows the right. Why is it that you're sort of calling them out? Well, because no other position wants to challenge presuppositions. That's why it's so effective. And everybody wants some softball debate where, oh, well, we all agree. So why can't we agree more? No, we don't agree. Get wrecked, what's up? Hey, Jay. Appreciate being able to take the trolling I did last time. The next question for you is for the next debate, would you actually consider you and FDA versus someone like Slavoye, Jisek,

2:13:37and another atheist for a community to be true? I don't even know. I have no idea if they would even do it. Right. Just a thought. I promise on the debate, by the way, I've kind of watched Malonyo over the years. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'm not trying to be a dick. I just, like, people always say, like, why don't you debate this big name person? Most of these people won't do it. Most people don't do debates. So I don't, I honestly think that there's no way that Slavoye would do some sort of rigorous debate with me and FDA. I highly doubt that would ever happen. I mean, I'm open to that. I don't think that would ever come about. Hugh Mungus, what's up? I've heard you mentioned it a few times. I was just wondering, what is the MK Ultra Australian link I think there was a book, you said? It's an online book.

2:14:37It's just, I don't know, I forget the guy's name. You have to look it up. MK Ultra in Australia. I don't have any handy. I'm sorry. Lumen, what's up? I also, Connor won't debate. We were supposed to debate on Pierce Morgan and he decided not to. What's up? Oh, sorry. Did you call me up? No. What's up? Hey, man. First of all, I wanted to say that on the guy that said, you knew nothing about Star Wars on YouTube. And you obviously do. But you didn't know who the model was. So I had to give you some shit. But I listened to a step on for a long time before I knew you. You were a big influence on my keticumin at period. So thank you for that. But it seems like Stefan's whole thing is an appeal to it.

2:15:38Like he's got this whole concept of universal perfectly behavior, right? I'm like, you were deconstructing the fact that it's like, OK, well, how can it be universal? And because he's a bounded person, right? What? He's bounded. He's bounded. He's like, oh, did he's a detective? Yeah, absolutely. And so he's got this concept of universal perfectly behavior. Like his entire thing is an appeal to, I guess, would you say, like natural law, right? And so he's constantly appealing to natural law. His empirical observation of natural law, that doesn't work because matter is a law like in his paradigm. At least he has no justification for where in the molecules do you find regularity in nature or causing effect? And how do I derive a universal principle from that?

2:16:40Yeah, from limited sense data of a bunch of particulars, you can't leap to a universal. Correct. So based on our paradigm, like the Orthodox Christians, Christian paradigms, we appeal to an external morale. Because the only mindful thing is it has been ethics is like a, I like Kantian ethics. It's a sort of negotiated thing. Like ethics is negotiated, but morality is externalized. And please tell me it's like I'm missing the points. I mean, Kant's ethic is a duty ethic, deontological ethics. So you universalize based on what would be preferable and what everybody ought to do in those sense. So for example, should I steal? Well, if you steal and you universalize it and you say, should everyone steal, it becomes a problem. But that's an exercise. It doesn't, that's not the same thing as justifying how it's a universally true thing. Right. It's a neo-shade with unbound premises, I would say.

2:17:44It can't be universalized. Well, I mean, Kant thought that it could be, but I'm saying if you're a materialist like him, it's even worse, like Stefan. Right, right. Because he's appealing all to just, like, appealing to your perspective and then trying to arrive a whole year-old specialized morality from this, without having universal principle. And the universal principle must ultimately be externalized, for sure, like you and I would appeal to a God, right? Yes. Or our God. Correct. And which is where you ultimately seem to, you would all have to trump him because he can only appeal to his bounded, his subjective perception. Right. And you know, ultimately, an easy way to do this. And I mentioned this briefly in the opening statement is to just say, there's no reason to believe in external world, dude. Like, we can make this a really simple argument.

2:18:45If you're a radical materialist, and this is even 20th century materialists still have this argument in this debate, if you re-bursing Russell's book, Scientific Outlook, he says in the early chapters, we can't prove there's an external world. We just act like and do philosophy and science as if there is, but you can't prove that there is. Because you can never get out of whether or not it's just your mind interpreting the signals that are hitting it, but your mind interpreting the signals hitting your retina and the signals firing in your mind, the light hitting your retina and the signals in your mind. You don't know that that matches up to the sense data out there in some external world. So you can never get past the layer of the sense data to the thing in itself. So really, if that's the case, then the world is just in your mind. How do you get out of your mind? So you be, it's solipsism. So I could have just done the whole debate on stuff

2:19:47on how do you get out of the solipsism dilemma? Oh, and what's up? If you're a radical empiricist materialist. And it's funny because Bertrand Russell says we can't. So we just forget, we ignore those questions, which is exactly what stuff I want to do. What's up? What's up, Jay? No, I just want to make commentary on the debate. Watching it, again, or watching it through Jimba was pretty hilarious. Yeah, it was funny. I watched the whole thing. But it just, you know, just listening to you and listening to Jimba. And I just think about how all these people who were sold as these intellectuals and like, you know, just the most advanced people of humanity, like, turn out to be a bunch of hard-tards. There are a bunch of suits. Yeah, they were just propped up. And you know, my question is, is, I mean, it's definitely not something that they don't,

2:20:49is it that they can't understand? It's, I know it's spiritual, underlining, but how is it that they can't put together? Do they just fake it? I mean, it could be different motivations for different people. I mean, it could be people are like, gripping and they don't care. They just want to make money. They just want to get famous. Could be that they're actually not that educated and they're pretending to be, so they're phonies. I mean, there's a lot of different reasons why. But again, yeah, ultimately, as we talked about the first hour, it could also be that anytime you're going at somebody's foundational presuppositions, which they're emotionally attached to, they're going to have an emotional reaction. They're going to be mad, right? So when you try to critique basic boomer beliefs and they'll lose their mind on you, they can't handle that. They can't stand up to a foundational level critique because it would mean that it would result in a kind of paradigm collapse in an emotional distraught state.

2:21:52So the mind, the body, the ego, it's that they, it protects itself from having that core identity. And it's not even really their identity, but they think that it is, right? Collapse because it would be a traumatic experience. And so that's what they're so vicious is that you're kind of going at the core of what the problem really is and they get very defensive because you're doing that. Eli, what's up? Gila, what's up? Big fan, I didn't want to say you were the guy who I recently started Catacumans. You were the guy, life, the arguments. I had one question about the OSS. It sounds a bit foreign, coming from a Protestant background. The idea of becoming like God. And I've watched your videos on it.

2:22:56I'm still kind of low tier trying to get up there. You know, okay, go ahead. What's like wondering what would be the basis with theosis or like just a simple way of explaining it from like a biblical or early church fathers? Well, Jesus says in John 17 that he came to give us a share in the glory that he had with the father before the foundation of the world. And for the Orthodox in contrast to the Protestant, that's a real ontological sharing in the divine life and in the divine glory. We don't share the divine essence. So we don't become persons in the Trinity, but we do share in the grace of God, which is the uncreated energy of God. So there's a real participation of being made immortal and it achieving eternal life through that grace. And that's very different from the Protestant attitude, which tends to focus on your legal standing before God and how God dispossessionally views you as angry and then he loves you.

2:23:56So it's a much more metaphysically rich view of what salvation and our transformation is versus a very truncated, simplistic moralistic view of what salvation is just being nice and being a better, you know, don't drink, don't smoke, don't chew and I don't like people that do, right? That's kind of the Protestant attitude of what morals is or a holy roller. Not really this idea, like, you know, John says our bodies will be transformed into the glorious image of his deified, transfigured body. So it's a much more resurrection centered focus. The body itself is deified on the basis of the Son of God assuming a human body and deifying it. So that's the basis is the incarnation, death, or resurrection and the transfiguration of human nature. Jose, what's up? We're gonna get to this debate. We'll never get through it. Jose, what's up, Doc?

2:25:01I'm you, Jose, last chance. Hey, so about that. It's okay. Hey, what's up, Jack? Sorry, I was connected to Pablo. Yeah, congratulations on your debate, man. This stuff. Thank you. I had a quick, I believe this is like an open core type of thing. Okay. That's all open. But something's been troubling me for quite some time and it just hit me. Well, when it comes to Christianity and Christian Orthodox, I'm trying to go every week. I'm also assured, is there truly a finite... Should I ask this? Can you hear me? Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, is there truly like a finite language to say that? Like while we're alive, that we can say Christianity is... Christian Orthodox is truly the way to understand and... understand and worship God in means of... Like whatever language, whatever facilities that we have

2:26:04to be able to praise, honor and live up to a standard that God has for us and Jesus has for us. Like while we're alive, like is there... Do you think like there's another like an elevated level to that that we can never understand until like a wheat transcentral, you know, going to heaven or being judged, you know, after we pass away, like that's something that's been troubling me for a little bit. I haven't even asked my... Yeah, I think Paul says, you know, that's what Paul says stuff like... You know, the Holy Spirit speaks for us in words beyond even human conception, groanings that only God understands. Or, you know, Paul talks about things that he saw when he was, you know, translated and saw heaven that are not legal to be spoke in human language. So I would say, yes, there's all kinds of things that, you know, he says that we see through a glass darkly and he can't even begin to describe what the Eskitan would be like.

2:27:09Shit, that's amazing. I'm only on Kings 2 reading the Bible and I have a kind... Well, yeah, when you get to Paul, he'll say that a lot in his letters. Awesome, awesome. All right, thank you. That's all I needed. Thank you. Very question. Thank you. Thank you. Hello, well. Hey. Hey, I just had a quick... I want to... on the topic of, you know, atheists versus like all these types of debates with atheists, I've been watching your videos for a while. I just wanted to know, like, I know you complain a lot about people having like level one to your arguments and you get frustrated about that. Is there any like debate that you've had that was like a level 10 argument or like, if there has and like what would be like a higher to your argument? I think I watched the whole Alex Melpass debate. That's literally the closest one.

2:28:11I don't even think he was hitting a level 10. I think he was intentionally... he just wanted to debate whether or not Aristotle made a transcendent argument. I'm like, okay, well, fine. Maybe he didn't. Like, even if I can see that, like, how does that disprove my transcendent argument for God? So it was just kind of a... stuck in the weeds debate. I feel like it kind of ended too early for you guys to remember. It wasn't me. It was those guys that hosted it said it had to end. Yeah. So would you be able to give an example of when I already have to run into one? Give an example of what? Like a higher to your argument against the attack position. I don't think atheists can do it. I just think their position is so limiting. That they don't even realize how few options they have to argue.

2:29:12So it makes it very... they have a very difficult position to actually argue. It's not a difficult position for people to have, because there's many, many atheists. But it's a very difficult position to effectively, philosophically, make sense of the way that we debate it. So unfortunately, I'm not trying to be a dick. Maybe there is some super atheist or something. But I've not yet encountered a super... I don't know who the final boss of atheism is. I have no idea. Maybe there is one. But I'll be interested to see when there is one. In what scope? In the greatest conceivable scope that there is. 93 billion light years across. Billions and billions of years back to the very origins of the universe. It's perfectly consistent, perfectly stable. He did make a time argument. You hear that? So he was lying when he said that it wasn't about time. He said to the beginning of the universe.

2:30:14I said, did you see 93 billion years ago to the beginning of the universe? I could make a time out. Yeah, you did make a time argument, you liar. Perfectly predictable. That is the maximum certainty that you can possibly get. And... How do you know that that's the maximum certainty that you... You know, it's just a giant story about the origins of the universe. Remember when I debated Tim Poole? Tim Poole did the exact same thing. When I asked for Episcemic justification. And he said, let me tell you a giant story. And it sounds like I'm super smart. I'm like, that's not an Episcemic justification. That's just telling the story, dude. Reason comes out of matter. It's the stable and predictable elements of matter that give birth to reason. And we know that. Notice stuff on just affirmed a magic worldview. Reason comes out of matter. What? What? So matter just jizzes reason out. It just spurts it out like semen to create. I mean, it's just retarded, dude. What does that even mean? Just absolute nonsense.

2:31:15Matter just causes and creates reason. First of all, matter doesn't have consciousness. So it's not intentional. It's not purposive in its action. So to speak of matter creating reason itself is retarded. Doesn't make any sense. It's stupid analogy. Things with intentionality or personhood or consciousness. Act intentionally in the world. Versus no intentionality or accidentalism, right? So to say that matter creates reason is completely retarded. It doesn't even make sense. And is it identical to the matter? So matter makes matter. Which is to say nothing. That doesn't tell me anything about what that is. And this whole debate ends up being. Okay, you say that matter gives rise to reason or concepts or the mind or what. What is that? Is it the molecules? And you'll notice multiple times throughout the debate. He says both things. He says on the one hand. Matter gives rise to reason, which suggests a distinction between the two.

2:32:20Okay, now given account as a materialist for what that is if it's not molecules or atoms. So throughout the whole debate, he wanted it both ways. He wanted to have a radical strict materialist worldview that all that exists is physicalism. And then at the same time, he turned around and say, but there's these other things that come out of it that are not it. Or he has to say they are just it matter creating more matter. Okay, well then a concept is just matter. Okay, what molecules are the number seven? What molecules are the idea of the past? What molecules are the law logic? What molecules are the law of identity? Is this so retarded? This is why physicalism is a really stupid position. But a lot of people think it's sophisticated. But when you actually dig into it, just with basic philosophical, this isn't even like. This isn't even mid-level philosophy. This is like philosophy 101, the Somalgy 101, basic metaphysics, you're going to ask these questions.

2:33:27And he's acting like this is philosophy 101 to just be believe in physicalism. Okay, well then what is the law of identity in physicalism? When you say that all that exists is physicalism, how do you know that that proposition itself is true? Because it's not in the physical world. That's not something you can see in the physical. You don't see the truth value of a proposition. Obviously, this is so stupid. What about meaning? Meaning is not in physics. Meaning is not found in atoms and molecules. So where in your head is meaning? What molecules are the meaning molecules? That's how retarded this is. We know that empirically, we know that psychologically. There's no law of logic that is contradicted by any of the properties of matter. We can see that... Universal claim. There's no law of logic. In other words, universal quantifier. There is no. No way or not anywhere at any time. Blah blah blah blah blah.

2:34:27That's why I wrote down when I was... When he was doing his opening statement, I wrote down all the times when he was essentially giving universal claims. World War debate. I'm assuming word... Word war debate. What's up? You want to unmute word war debate? Who hosted the debate? A-J-A. Hey, is this Tom? Which person is this? Yeah. Yeah, it's T. What's up, man? Hey, man. I just wanted to... I'm not glad to de-realize. I just wanted to say congratulations on your victory. You put on a help, Joe. Thank you. How did you say it was... For a fight with a part-tensation and... It was a lot of fun. Thank you, and everybody be sure to follow a word, word debate. There will be great debates coming up in the future, I'm sure. Anything you want to tell us, any plans for the part three?

2:35:28Yeah, you know we're going to... Think right now we're going to cross around. Maybe all of a sudden or Miami, there's a few things going on there. We're definitely going to do some a lot more online stuff, a lot more live stuff. We're going to be exploring some different formats as well, different layers of the league. And yeah, we're just really happy and grateful for everyone who came and participated. You know, people coming to the shows really help support us to do more. And we're a young organization, but the best feedback we can get is that everyone had fun, had a great time, met new people, challenged their ideas. And made some new friends even. It's that's really what we want. And so, you know, at the end of the day, I think it was an amazingly successful event. You know, a rumble views are huge and a lot of good things came out of it. And so we're really humble and blessed and we just appreciate your participation, man. Thank you so much. I was glad to be a part of it and we'd love to be involved anytime.

2:36:29Yeah, I had a blast. Even with the sparks that flew, I had a blast. So don't let anybody think that I didn't enjoy it. Sparks are going to fly, dude. That's just part of it. You're going to have that contentious heated back and forth. A lot of views over here. 543k on the grumble. So everybody be sure to check out and follow World War 2 bait. I have them linked below. And also be sure to get some of that sweet merch. And let me finish out stuff on here. Development of our ability to reason from 7 million years ago to when we tripled our brain volume about 2 million years ago, we can see each individual child learn to develop reason. I worked in a daycare, I've been a stay at home, dad. You see children develop reason. Again, the question was and will be throughout this whole debate. When you say that matter caused this reason or brought it about and that you observed children developing reasoning, you're observing a bunch of molecules. I want to know what

2:37:33that is. Which are the reason molecules? I mean, is it the toe? I mean, I have my toe here. You guys see, I do have a toe present. Are the reason molecules here? Or are the reason molecules over here in this toe? Like which molecules or set of molecules or collection molecules is the reason molecules? You see how silly this is? This is literally his position. But he doesn't want to bite the bullet and actually double down on what is this position actually says. He just wants to assert that what people do it, I don't know where it is or what it is, it's in the mind. Excuse me, but wait a minute, the mind? Like which part of the brain is the reason molecules? You see how silly this is? When they interact with the physical wills. And so reason is based on matter. There's nothing below matter. There's nothing behind matter. There's no gu- How does he know this? These are just outrageous universal negatives, right? You can never prove

2:38:38a universal negative, right? And yet he just like 10 times in his opening statement just makes all these vast wild universal narrative, grand narrative claims, which don't work on an empiricist worldview. That's the point. I'm not saying you can't make universal claims. Every time I make this, do this internal critique, you make a universal claim, you believe in metaphysics? Yeah, I don't have his presuppositions though. That's why it's not a problem for me. That's not an area of internal critique for me. Now if you want to do an internal critique, you're welcome to do that. In fact, I thought at one point he might be moving to almost do that, but he didn't. He didn't even attempt to get internal critique. I don't even know if he knows what it is, but all of these arguments I'm doing are just simply internal critiques. I'm critiquing whether he's consistent with his basic presuppositions. And of course, he's not. Ryan?

2:39:38Hey, Jay. Yeah. Thanks, Tony. I really appreciate your work, mate. Thank you. Good stuff. I listened to the bait. I thought it was quite interesting him saying about you observed reason. Yeah, right. I missed what you were saying about with where these concepts coming from. So what was he observing reasoning kids through? But surely it would be concepts. In which case, he's back to square one. Yeah. To account for concepts. Sure. A wonder why they just think ever kind of address the kind of mind I got kind of area. Yeah, that's another way you can move in this debate is the mind body problem. But the problem is

2:40:43a more fundamental question is just simply how do you even have mind in your world? What is that? Like what are you talking about mind? I mean, it's just different molecules. So which of the mind molecules versus the non-mind molecules? Yeah, exactly. It doesn't make sense for it. No, it's arbitrary. Again, that's why he wants to have both. Right. He wants on the one hand to have a metaphysic, a materialism to cut out the possibility of God, but then when other problems arise for that materialism, oh, well, then I can have concepts and laws and meaning and all these things that are not physical. It's just that stupid. I mean, this is so elementary in the filth. What's up? Go ahead, what's on your mind? Hey, I had two things. One, I was going to ask you, would you be interested in like

2:41:46even the chance of moderating a debate? Probably, depending upon what the venue is and like can I, you know, sell books or something? I mean, I'm not going to just go sit and moderate a bunch of debates for free because it's a way someone's talking about it. I just figured it'd be good like if there was anybody ever like thought about it because I was saying, you know, the moderate wouldn't take it this moment. Yeah, I think the problem there would just be that a lot of people probably wouldn't want me as a moderator because I'm very, I'm very divisive and like, they see me as kind of like contentious. I think I would be a fair moderator. I don't think I've ever moderated a debate, but I think I would be fair. But I think the challenge there would actually be finding anybody that would want me as a moderator, honestly. Disaster, what's up? Hey, Jay, can you hear me? Mm-hmm. Hey, sorry, I came to the stream late again. Just once I congrats on that W.

2:42:50It was awesome. It goes over people's heads so often. I had just like two suggestions. I know I can't really tell you anything. I learned everything I know from you, but this is something I've seen Jim Bob do before and it's worked out really well for me is whenever you asked him about the past and whether, you know, these metaphysical realities like the laws of logic obtained in the past before there was any humans because they have to hold to that. And then they can't try to ground it in their own mind because you're talking about a time pre-human. And if you can get them to, you know, agree it's conceptual, but it obtained metaphysically in reality in the past, will you just, you know, necessitated a mind before humans? So that kind of gets them out of that, trying to ground it autonomously when you talk about like a pre-human Earth that they love to cite. Yeah, there's a lot of ways you can take these arguments. I'm just good. I get kind of used to the same ones. I just go too old because they never connect, but they won't be able to

2:43:53answer any of these. You could you could do external world, you could do the past, you could do time, you could do a cause and a fact, you can do telos. Essentially anything can be a transcendal argument. You could do it from a pencil if you wanted to because you just point out that like you don't have the ability to predicate about this object identity over time. So, you know, you bring an identity over time, the self, any of these things are not under microscope. Obviously, it's so stupid. Found God, what's up? We do got them wigger pants, dude. Where are they at? By the way, we got some shorts too, y'all. We're gonna add in some shorts for y'all. Play it. What's up, play it and you get you some shoals right there, don't? And it's got the logo and everything. Look at that. Look at some dance shots, bro. What's up, man? I'm you. Hey, what's up, brother? Hey. So, I was just wondering,

2:45:04I believe what your position is on the metaphysics of reality, but how do Christianity hold to an epistemic test as far as they own the truth? How do they prove epistemic value? Yeah, well, again, in a world, because it's a world view argument, where God created the world as a functioning, structured, regular system, where you do have identity over time through divine providence through universals through particulars through the one of the many. All of those things are the structure of the Christian universe. And so it makes sense why there would be those things in that universe, why there would be good and evil, why there would be dignity for man. In the

2:46:05other paradigm, it doesn't make sense why there would be those things and you can't even know if there's those things or not. So that's the argument is contrasting to paradigm. So I would say that if you say, well, what's the epistemic justification, the epistemic justification is the entire Christian world view. So how could a subjective point of view as far as a system and then a human interpretation of a system being the same thing as epistemic? Well, just because I'm a subject, it doesn't follow from that, that everything that I know or believe is subjective, right? So our worldview is that some things are subjective, but also some things are objective. And I'm not the ultimate subject in my world view. In the atheist worldview, the individual like Stefan is the ultimate subject. So he has such an impossible burden to explain universal claims from the bottom from the ground up that it's

2:47:09essentially essentially a futile project. But if God exists, I'm not in the role of absolute subject. God is. So I don't have to know all things at all times because I believe in divine revelation, which is the ground for universals. So how can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that Christian is totality of truth? Just like you can see evidence of truth in the universe and this system of truth, identity happening all over the place we can recognize it. How can we do that same match with Christianity when there's so many different Christianity opinions? Well, yeah, that's a more specific question about, appreciate your question about the nature of what Christian theology or what the Christian church actually is. So that question actually has to go into history in terms of

2:48:11Orthodox church versus the papacy, you know, in the first thousand years. So only the Orthodox metaphysics has the essence energy distinction has the true, trying God teachings, etc. Which are necessary to have a consistent worldview. It's not usually worth bringing up the essence energy distinction if you're debating like stuff I'm all in you. But if you don't have the essence energy distinction, then the deity collapses into an absolutely simple, unknowable monad. So essence energy distinction is actually necessary for the Christian metaphysics. So it's part of the system which I said, like it's a Christian worldview argument. It's not even for the entire worldview. But good question. And also like I always say there's two steps to this if you want to say how to prove it. Well, one way to prove it is the impossibility of their system negating having knowledge. So you do an internal critique and you show that their system destroys the possibility of having true knowledge just by true belief. And then you counter the second part of the argument is showing that

2:49:15our paradigm is a Christian metaphysics and a Christian ethic and a Christian epistemology because it's a whole worldview. It all goes together. So all those things kind of stand or fall together. So that's the argument. In the filth and then I think we're going to have to do a part two. We'll just have to do the rest this debate tomorrow because it's getting to be too late and I got to do the super chats. And we just got back from Nashville. So I'm like super exhausted. But what's up? Oh, I was going to, I was going to do just a timestamp of what it said four hours and two minutes. He speaks about the difference. He says that he doesn't trust in government science but private science. He doesn't give a basis for the difference between the two. Yeah. Yeah. I thought about highlighting that. But I was like, this could go off into rabbit rolls. So I didn't go down that route. And then he talks about imperfect matter. Yeah. Right. What the heck is that? But yeah, he doesn't understand that when he says stuff like perfect and imperfect matter, he doesn't understand that he's making like massive metaphysical claims. Like the theology of

2:50:21perfection, that's a super medieval metaphysical thing. Like philosophers today don't talk about perfection. That's all part of medieval scholastic stuff. That's an ontological category that's been discarded since the Enlightenment. So when he talks about perfect and perfect matter, it's even nobody's talking about. Like nobody, people would laugh at that modern philosophy. It's crazy. Like what are you talking about? Do nobody in modern atheistic philosophy talks about perfect and imperfect matter? Like what is, what are you, that's massively metaphysical jibber jabber in the atheist worldview? All right. Let's do some of the super chats because I know he said that's at four minutes and two seconds, but I mean, we got like, we're not even, we're just at the end of the opening statements. So we're going to have to do a part two tomorrow. It's too hot in this damn room tonight. And we got quite a few super chats. If you want to support this room, you can do so through the super chats. Josh Grams is $5. I'm a simping on proud.

2:51:24Yeah, that I didn't write the lyrics to the pay piggy song. I had seen the chorus. Fernand, but I still like those, they're silly lyrics obviously. Fernand, I thank you for that. I appreciate that. May budget about $20. Thank you so much. Next time you do a live debate, could you wear a large cardboard cutout of a bookshelf behind you? That would be funny. I will, I'm going to, I'm going to wear literally wear a KGB outfit to the David Wood bit. I mean, at least have the hat. Like you can easily find those KGB hats. It might be harder to find a KGB officer's uniform, but I'm going to try. Aftermath says, I got to finally meet you. Yeah, you too. I appreciate that. Pod, $93, $10.J. You destroyed stuff on Molly Kule. That was the best yoga heard yesterday in a gym off-shet or today when it was stuff on molecule. It'll be stuff on polycule soon. One thing though, since concepts are in fact different than minds,

2:52:25would that mean that concepts exist if minds don't? I mean, there's, I don't know, he could try to go different ways with that. It's just the problem is that he's committed to materialism. And if you're going to commit to materialism and be so like dogmatic about it and hinge your whole position on that to rid the possibility of God, then you're going to have to be committed. You can't have these abstract things coming out of matter and reason coming out of matter and mind coming out of matter and concepts being different than matter. I mean, you got to bite the bullet. You got to say the concepts are matter. That's what your position necessitates. Now tell me where the law of identity molecules is retarded. Clud or chud, the moderator was poop. I can see why Andrew was not interested. Ironically, Rob Noor recommended Aradite. You destroyed stuff on. I know the moment I saw this bald chud on Sam's show. He was spouting non-aggression principle and soience that you would

2:53:28slaughter him. Well, we had the same debate six years ago and somehow stuff on got worse. I expected improvement, but it actually was worse. El Kenam, El Nakam, $5. You destroyed Boomer stuff on. Stuff on still thinks is 2016. He is irrelevant. He was coping. Alex, Jagged, $10. The problem is, no, these moderators know what a fallacy is. They cannot see fallacious answers or questions. They need, there needs to be a level for mods instead of being there to listen. Yeah, I mean, moderating is not being a host. Elk, $5. Again, not so early, I was seething because she found out that you won. Stuff on can't handle debates. Has stuff on down any other debates other than me and oh, he debated ask yourself one time. Bird, $5. I thought your shirt is great. Yeah, of course it is. Simon, $10. Hey, yo, good job on

2:54:33stuff. Not even close. You should call out miles from Canon and Cree. He's the former 70 Adventist Presbyterian now. He talks crazy crap about you in the orthosphere. All these people just don't grab to get attention, dude. These people would fold like a fentanyl zombie in a debate. Then a slide, $20. Can you unmute me? I'm ex on Dead Zinger. I was a follower. I don't know what I did. I'm not ashy. You probably said something retarded. They literally like every time a debate or boxed them as they said something retorted. But appreciate the calls. I'm going to go ahead and end it. Let me see if I can find that dude. Z. What is it? No, I can't find it. Oh, Dead Zinger. If I don't do this right now, I won't remember.

2:55:39Zinger. You are blocked. Usually people that talk shit won't debate. I block. Are you Roman Cali? That's another number one way to get booted. Okay, you're in block. What? Chud, $5. Did Satan sinning in the spiritual realm have a cosmic downfall effect to the universe? Like Adam? Yeah, I mean, I guess you could say it affected that realm in that the angelic realm was now impregnated or had the presence of fallen beings because a third of the angels fell with Satan. Elk $5. Some of the answers that Paul Newgave were actually just mind-boggling for a supposed of philosopher. Boomer answers like it just is. Yeah, you'll see that tomorrow when we get to the

2:56:43rest of it. Formerly leather $5.J. to the moderator. You need to actually moderate or stop yelling at me. Great job on the debate. You absolutely destroyed stuff on. We examine them $35. I appreciate what you do. Keep working hard. Thank you so much. Boomer $5. Stefan is not an accurate representation of Baldwin. Well, think of Tristan Haggard, who by the way has transitioned to have hair. Tommy Callahan $5. Fear that Molly is one of the weird time travelers from the show Fringe. We are all doomed for slavery. Somebody met a joke that he he Stefan skipped the last 10 years and time traveled from 2015 or 2016. He thinks it's still 2016 because like everything is 2016 vibes with him. That's funny. Slump $5. Dean Craig from Community was a terrible moderator. Also, I did not say erda. I end up as a host. I noticed she was so biased against you, of course. She was forced to gas up Stefan as the intellectual Titan. Well, I mean, just had to do it.

2:57:49That shows you that she can't handle this stuff, dude. She needs to go at her horses or whatever she does because she's not made for debate. JT $40. People think that you're mean because this debate was WWE. But actually, debate is UFC. You beat the shit out of them and then they're confused and they hurt and they can't get their progressing career. Canonical beer $20. Thank you so much. Well, Emmanuel, 200 Mexican pesos. He had the smugness argument. It's very annoying. Like when he mocks the term brute facts and then didn't even try to refute them, acting as if his positions are just simply correct. Good job. Thank you. Jake, thank you for that. Dominican $5. Give me that old time religion. President retort $20. Stuff I want to eat is cake while denying that there's eggs, flour and sugar. Boom. He got it. Maybe that's it. That's the easiest way to explain this argument. Translating arguments are simply arguing things like if you have a cake that presupposes eggs,

2:58:55flour, sugar, that is the transcendental argument. That's it. And Stefan wants cake, but I don't want to talk about the... I don't know what to talk about the ingredients. We'll talk about feed main radio. Mostly peaceful, if I box. What's your main problem with narcissism? I just did a live stream on it. So literally a couple days ago, you can watch the two, three hours we spent on narcissism. Right y'all. Nostoc attack. Professor Zhang, in fact, it's essentially the not... There you go. Whole stream on Nostus, bro. Spirit on $10. Pay your tax to the emperor. All you little pay-piggies. I like the way you think. Josh, five bucks. I'm a Simp. I'm proud. We did that already. Making sure I didn't miss any of your super debts over here on YouTube.

3:00:02We got that. We got that. Got that. Ryan Finley, $5. It's the man be Pemby BS of Christians to just let us do whatever you want because Jesus just love everybody. Hippy dude. Yeah, that's a big problem. I honestly could not tell if that it was a real dude or if he was like trolling. Start a thing and he was trolling. I don't know. Double of fantasies. I love you, Jay. Stay mean. Doeboy slimton dollars. I said this earlier in Jim Bob Chat. I will say it. The moderator looks like the kind of guy that swallows toothbrush when brushing his teeth. In the fill five dollars, it's only mean when you interrupt the person because you know they're not giving an answer. They think it's mean because they do not want to answer. They want to tell a story exactly. Ryan Finley, five bucks. Stefan is really just Neil deGrasse Tyson with Burble Acuity. Show me the telescope where God is. That's the level of this argument. Yeah, literally.

3:01:03Galaxy $10. Great job in the Stefan debate. Hard to listen to him. Boomer, five bucks. Stefan is not, no, we did that one. Get wrecked. Five bucks. Jay went to the reader service. I fell out of going to church for a month. Sorry. I'm not experienced at church. More patient forgiving. We all need that. Wow, Titan Spurge. Winning the superchats tonight with a $100 superchat. Thank you so much, man. Big ol' fat one, guys. We will tomorrow cover the rest of the debate. So we only scratched the surface. However, we did get into some good basic analyses once again of tag and transatlal arguments. Been a while since we've covered that topic. So fun to revisit the classics after I take some breaks. I got to take breaks from these topics. Sometimes it gets old.