Radio Free Skaro #1057 - UK Habitats of the Canadian Goose

Ray and Fray Scarrow!

Hello, everyone. Welcome to Radio FreeScarrow episode number 10 57. I am Steven in Edmonton.

Morning, Vancouver.

And Chris in Edmonton.

Well, in the March, uh, we're in March now, officially. We're recording this in February,

but we've time traveled to March. Mm-hmm. When this comes out, um, so well as a construct.

It is. I predict war with a ran and a paramount will take over Warner Bros.

Incredible.

Shock genius.

Genius work on my birth. Yeah, I quote as quote us radio times. If you, if you read a

article about that, we're the ones who've done it. They will.

They've proved that news. Um, and what are you saying? Just for a short recording.

Steven, 107 days until I ran his first World Cup man in the US.

I'm comfortable.

It's God.

I'm, listen, well, we saw the World Cup. I don't care about soccer either.

Everyone don't worry. This will be quick.

And I have it. I'm having a literally a block for my place.

Yeah. Well, Canadian, some of the Canadian games are going to be well.

It could have been happening here too, is that because Evanston was sort of up for, uh,

like some of the games, maybe, but our premiere at the time sort of like asks for the moon.

And so they bypassed us and that the time they go, oh, thanks, Jason,

Kenny, for, for, you know, poo pooing. Uh, Evan's his chance at hosting World Cup games.

And now I'm thinking, thank you, Jason, Kenny.

Good. Yes.

Our chance to hold World Cup games.

Because I don't know which was response, presumably John Horgan was the guy I

presented. Yeah. Do green lit this thing.

This disaster.

Yeah. World Cup, uh, war and Dr. Hill, uh, we're talking about Dr. Hill.

Oh, somebody gets fired for that blunder.

Right. There's so many blunders to go around now, dude.

If we're to get to Dr. Hill, I want to talk about a little bit.

So it's a, it's a bus full of them. In fact, you could say it's a blunder bus.

Oh, oh, that took longer to get the joke than it took to load a blunder bus.

Swing in a miss.

Uh, I watched, um, so, uh, over in the comparable there, they're doing some,

some movies coming up.

And, and one of them is coming up as Blade Runner.

They've never ever done an absolute Blade Runner.

So, so, so, and I watch, uh, because, so Blade Runner, I'm getting, there's a point to this.

I'm not, we're not just a real Blade Runner, but not much one, but yes.

Blade Runner is a movie that I have tried many times to like in the past.

And it just, it just falls by the wayside.

It apparently does the same with Chris. Chris is bored of it.

Not me. I don't mind it.

This is my Babylon 5 because I've tried over and over and now cannot get into it.

Well, anyway, we watched, we watched not only both, uh, we watched the Final Cut,

which came out 2007, which is the Final Cut, uh, the, the only one that's supervised by

director, director and, and one time possible Dalek designer Ridley Scott.

And, uh, and then we watched the theatrical cut.

And then we watched three and three quarters hours of VAM about, uh, Blade Runner.

And I tell you, you know what, it's still boring.

It's still boring. Uh, it's waiting for this.

But, my God, it, it looks gorgeous.

It's, it's, it's the most, it's one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen.

Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

The, the sequel 2049 isn't too bad.

Don't tell me about, don't spoil it.

No, I'm just saying it doesn't look good.

It looks good.

Yeah.

Doesn't look as good.

Because it's not, I guess it's not made with models, um, or film, or on film.

Yeah, uh, but I'm so, but we're looking to watch that later on too.

But, you know what, the reason I brought it up though,

the way that when I'm tying it into Doctor Who is that I'm, I'm listening to Vangelis's

score for it, which is great.

It's great.

Uh, but a lot of the scenes of, especially in the, when they're going up that little pyramid

and stuff like that, there's like this horn sound.

And I listen to it go, you know what?

I bet you're wrong.

Your limb listened to this when it came out in 82, June of 82.

I don't want to come out in the, in the UK.

Uh, but the score for terminus owes a lot to the score from Blade Runner.

I was thinking of the horns whenever you see the dark tower or whatever.

No, yes, so, yeah, no, yeah, I know what you mean.

I was Peter how, um, I, I, I don't, I didn't get that.

I, because I listen to music, Chris can jump into any time Blade Runner and Doctor Who

music to two things that Chris knows by heart.

Uh, I, I did see that model of the Tarell Corporation at the Museum of the Moving Image

in, uh, in New York, uh, like it was on its side because it's a huge model.

Yeah, I'm pretty cool to see it.

Eight feet in, um, allegedly, it was September 9th, 1982 in the UK.

Came out the UK.

Well, I bet, I bet you'd probably say, oh, let's go check out the new movie here.

And, uh, I said, well, this is boring, but listen to that music.

Roger, the music and the visuals are great.

Yeah, one, one for my back, one for my back and they who absolutely loves Blade Runner.

It's like, I gotta watch this, you gotta watch this.

So watch the VHS one sport.

I was late 90s, um, and I'm like, wow, that was sucked.

Um, in his defense, and then sometime later, we watch the director's cutter, whatever the,

whatever the, the, the heck it was called.

Yeah.

And I'm like, wow, this still sucks.

Just putting it in context.

Yeah.

All you've got, not all you've got because there's a lot of great science fiction happening.

But it's like ET, Star Trek, that kind of stuff.

It's all Hollywood-y stuff.

And this is going back to film noir with a sci-fi.

It's way different than anything else.

So you can see why people were like, oh, I'm glomming on to this because it's not these other things.

Yeah.

Or, or completely bouncing off of it and no one in between.

I'm kind of in between because I agree.

It is slow, but it's also great to look at and kind of cool.

Yeah.

The, the, I don't think, honestly, I don't think the story warrants, uh, that, the movie.

Yeah.

But no, it, uh, uh, uh, God, like, uh, but the fact is, it's all models.

It's all models and in camera effects.

There's like no, there's a, they, they even, like, it's mostly like, I watched the van.

They did a bunch of passes.

They didn't really use it like a lot of optical filters.

They actually, uh, optical printing, they, they just rewound the camera.

I just did multiple passes through a computer controlled rail.

It still looks great.

Oh, it looks amazing.

It looks amazing.

Yeah.

I don't even know.

It's really amazing.

This is a reminiscent of a conversation.

I had to work yesterday with some co-workers about Christopher Nolan and, uh,

specifically Duncirk, which looks great and story wise, writing wise.

Yeah.

Yeah, I saw the theater and I was like, man, it's all right.

But it does look good.

Yeah.

You're right.

Yeah.

Don't look like Blade Runner.

Well, nothing does.

Nothing does.

It does.

No, it's true.

It's trying to think if there was a Doctor Who connection to Blade Runner, uh,

I'm sure somebody worked on it that worked on it.

No, because it was Sean L.A.

So I, I looked really hard to see.

Well, you already mentioned really Scott.

So really Scott, that's about it.

I think, yeah, because it was probably something that was brought up as why can't we,

why can't it look like this were about to cancel you?

That's probably what it was.

Maybe it was.

There's your Doctor Who connection.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, even the, even the model, like, oddly enough,

that the big giant pyramid reminded me of, uh, of deep thought from Hitchhiker's

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

Similar look to it, which came up before, of course.

Uh, uh, but then the slow,

methodical pace of terminus also, but maybe think that maybe everyone saw Blade Runner.

I thought we could do that.

Even though there are BBC strikes happening,

we have no money for this.

Let's make Blade Runner replicate with the C through Raincoat.

I mean, that's definitely a reference to terminus.

And, uh, losing your underwear,

you know, that's just calm.

I mean, his Blade Runner terminus is Blade Runner.

Watch it.

If you sync it up, it's a, like, almost matches perfectly.

That is of all the undru and ridiculous things you said, that's somewhere in the middle.

It's, uh, it's also one of those other ones where if you start dark side of the moon,

it's just the right spot.

Yep.

You'll fall asleep.

Sync something.

Uh, on this podcast today, uh, speaking of Doctor Who, uh, we're doing the,

we're doing a commentary.

Uh, the first part of our commentary for the trial of a time lord,

part one, aka the mysterious planet part one.

We recorded this pack in July, kids.

July, almost a year ago, we, we, many stupid things hadn't happened yet.

So many stupid things.

God.

So, so enjoy that later on.

Um, including our, uh, actually the, the, the first part of this commentary is just

literally, we slow down the opening model shot, uh, to, uh, boat, um,

118th speed.

And so it takes 45 minutes to talk about that one effect shot.

We did not, but we should have.

We just break it down, domically enjoy just to talk about the music.

No, he doesn't.

Uh, anyway, uh, watch some, watch some Doctor Who because there's no other Doctor Who

on.

So he wasn't watching it with us.

You can want.

Trial of a timeline on, uh, on later on as podcasts, but, uh,

but first, hey, let's, uh, speaking of music and speaking of, uh,

future Doctor Who, Murray, Murray Gold's been everywhere.

He's been, uh, he did an interview with that, uh, that, uh, I can't remember the name

of the podcast, but the same one that, that did a great interview with Peter Capaldi

a few weeks ago.

And anyway, they talked to, uh, Murray Gold.

And he said, uh, this is the thing that's been, that's been picked up and,

and passed around is that they're, they're multiple versions of the 2026 Doctor

who Christmas special have been written by Russell T Davies.

Great.

I'll believe what I see it much like my Star Wars role.

He has many different, no, I mean, he has many different, like, okay,

what if Billy Piper, because God, we have to close that loop.

What if Billy Piper isn't available?

Then we have this version of the script.

What if this actor's not available?

Then we have this version of the, basically based on things,

I think, I think Billy Piper is busy shooting Wednesday and maybe another thing.

So how much she will be involved to, um, to, to pick up from her iconic appearance

at the end of the reality war remains to be seen.

I'm more than happy to have her make a pile of money off of Wednesday.

Yeah.

Oh, for sure.

I mean, there are anything else she does for sure.

Exactly.

Just, um, this particular instance, you know,

what do we think the chances are that, um, Patrick Duffy is just going to show up

on the shower and the rose, more than zero.

Piper thing is just, just didn't happen.

Uh, I, I, I, my number one suspicion based on absolutely nothing but

gut is that there will be another bit of stunt casting that we will even more shake our

eyes at.

Uh, um, big stuff.

Yeah.

I'm enjoying the rumors that Judy got was going to come back for.

Not a chance.

First of all, the phrase enjoying the rumor should never be honored.

No, no, in this case, yes, yes, it can.

There is, there is a big, there's a better chance, uh, for Christopher

Ackelston to come back and work with her else for T Davies and Judy got.

What if they both come back, fight it out and regenerate into yet another David tenant?

They, they unregenerate, basically, they, they milled back into another form of David

tenants.

What's, what's, what's the, the, the, the term for the opposite of by generation?

Uh, generation, I don't know either, yeah, um, it wouldn't be like sub generation.

It'd be, I don't know, I don't know what's dumber and we might have already

hashed this out.

Okay.

The forced regeneration in power of the doctor or by generation.

My money's on by generation.

Oh, by generation, I think it's the dumbest.

I'm trying to think, is there anything dumber than by generation in terms of time,

Lord nonsense and looms, maybe that's about it.

Uh, looms.

Yeah, I really can't know.

No, not really, um, yeah, who knows, who knows what, uh, what this, I mean,

it's, it's now March, uh, as we stated at the top of this podcast,

breaking news, it's now March.

And, um, the Christmas is like nine months away.

So, uh, at some point, they will start, they will start their filming of this.

There's going to be a tribe generation isn't there.

There's going to be like two other doctors popping out of Billy Piper.

It's going to be a clip show.

That's what it's going to be.

It's just going to be David 10 presenting various clips of other regenerations.

At this point, I'm fine with that.

Presented by BBC America.

Yeah, right.

Maybe see America returns the full.

And the world wrestling, whatever E stands for.

Yeah, entertainment.

Yeah, that's what it is.

Um, yeah, no, I'm just trying to think like, yeah,

because they would have to start filming probably sooner than later,

but you know, it's assumed, but there's at least a potential, I guess,

depending on what the story is and how they need to do it and whatever.

But then I assume there's a potential they could just do it all, like in studio,

where we might not get, you know, set reports or leaks or whatever.

Yeah.

I can't be the only one who's getting a dog ate my homework by above this whole business.

Well, you think it's going to happen, Warren?

That's going to happen.

It'll just be a real slap-dash effort.

Oh, okay.

That's what I've got to feeling is.

Altogether is a very dog ate my homework feeling.

A little bit.

I mean, while the thing, the special is made only by the BBC,

there's no co-production money going on in this.

Oh, okay.

We'll get this a little bit later.

Does Disney have to distribute it or no?

No, it's over.

The Disney deal is done.

Well, that is over, okay.

It is over.

26 of 26 episodes of Dr. Who related content have been delivered

and yet to be broadcasted.

It's not happening because it was raised by the way.

Dr. Who related content makes me sick to my stomach.

I know.

I said that as a part of what if we say things like IP?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Even worse.

Yeah.

Even worse.

Noted content creator, Marty Scorsesey.

How dare you?

How dare you?

Absolute content.

That's the gift.

Content creator.

So no, no, this, so it's only been made,

A, it's being made by the BBC and BBC alone.

Which is why they can only afford one.

And who knows where it's going to be distributed once we get to Christmas?

I imagine they'll probably ham or something up.

But who knows?

Maybe they won't.

Maybe they'll show it up on TV.

Who knows?

And so it could be a brutal story.

It'll be on the universe, which we'll then shut down.

Yeah, who knows?

So there's lots of stuff.

There's lots of questions in the air about it yet.

But I, you know, based on what I heard a few weeks ago,

you know, they kind of have to start shooting by March or April

for badwill to be involved, because they are producing it.

It's to get a thing in the can.

So I, I don't, I haven't heard of like anything,

like behind the scenes, like, oh my god, what do we do?

What do we do?

But I, I am very much aware of casting announcements

and other work that Billy Piper and David Tennant,

because obviously, let's face it, David Tennant is,

is ready to go to for, for, we need a doctor.

Can we get David Tennant?

And the 14 doctors just sitting there.

Story-wise, it makes complete sense.

Well, maybe it doesn't, but it's practical to do.

You can, you can, you can make it work here.

Exactly.

And, you know, Tennant does love the show.

And there are certainly rumors out there

that he will come back for it.

But, I mean, that'd be my least annoying thing.

Unlike before, when Jody regenerated and David Tennant,

now I'm the least annoyed by this.

Right.

Kind of ridiculous.

Yeah.

Bit ridiculous.

We'll find out, though.

Anyway, that's what happened.

If you, Marie Gold is also in the hoon of her show.

There's a hoon of her show that came out

and they talked a lot about music with him.

And my favorite question was, Crystal Dee asked,

was there ever a time when you thought that maybe,

they're, you know, this scene maybe shouldn't have music.

And Marie says, nope.

Yeah, we know.

We're well aware of that.

Oh, it's, it's amused me.

And then he alluded to one specific instance.

We thought we all kind of sort of agreed

that maybe we should do this one with hope music.

And that was the Peter Capaldi speech from the Dr. Falls,

you know, where I stand is where I fall.

They actually decided, let's not do music on this one.

Oh, and it works perfectly.

And then the music coming in works perfectly, too.

It absolutely does.

Yeah, when it finally comes in.

Yeah.

This is just slagging of current Marie Gold stuff.

He's done some amazing crap.

I see, trust me, not the crap being praiseworthy.

Amazing crap.

I know amazing stuff.

It depends on who the producer is.

Let's face it because he even said during the interview,

like he never really, like, discusses anything.

He never meets directors.

It's all like basically through the producers.

Great stuff in RTD we wanted as well.

Like really good stuff.

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, and I thought he was very well utilized

in the Moffitt era.

I thought, you know,

and Sega and I can only did sterling work as well.

That's true.

Give him a short shrift.

And then it got, and then it got a little too bombastic

in the, yeah, the R2D we are.

And that's the producer, because that's the whole deal

with that Disney money.

RTD is also interviewed on that,

and there's going to be a longer version of that.

They only had some sort of select clips of it,

but a longer version is going to be released

this coming week, probably on the hoodedverse channel.

So stay tuned for that.

Russell T. Davies spills the T.

T. Well, he does not, anyway, shape or form.

Honestly, he's just Russell Davies.

Yes, just that's it.

Ah, I get it, because he's off the table.

Very clever.

He's very clever, Chris.

We were.

Yes, anyway, so there,

so stay tuned for that.

We'll talk about probably that a little bit next week.

Another week has passed,

and another BBC drama boss has said things about Dr. Who

that everyone has picked up on.

And quite vague, but less vague.

No, but Lindsey Salt.

Lindsey Salt, of course,

her, her, her, her, she is

named in homage as the lead character in the War between the Land

and the Sea.

Of course she is.

The BBC's director of drama did a big thing about,

with Deadline, talk about stuff,

just about stuff.

Anyway, Dr. Who always comes up with these.

And I'm in Troll F.

Dr. Who.

Dr. How's Dr. Who?

That's what I just did.

Halfway down the page.

And where they say, I'm going to read the quote here,

because they sort of say, oh, well,

the dizzy thing ended in this and copros and everything else.

Here's the quote that she said about the current landscape.

There are different ways of setting up a show.

We just say to meet, we just need to make sure we do it

in the right way and make sure we take the right time to do it.

Ultimately, it's one of the BBC's most treasure brand.

So it said, here we go.

It's got not going anywhere.

That's, I mean, I'd face value.

That also sounds good.

True.

Right before she says, let's see here,

financing the show for a long term future,

those talks have not started yet or conversations.

I'm like, well, that means it's not happening for at least a year,

because that takes forever to set up.

Yeah, and she also goes on to see,

she markets back there early days.

I managed to walk into this job when the copro market imploded

and I've learned a lot about the tenacity of producers

and writers to make things at all budget levels.

Things are getting funded in so many different ways now.

She also doesn't rule out attempting to strike

another splashy American copro deal for Dr. Who.

HBO Max is one, you know, a place that the BBC has sort of worked with a few times.

Which, that, all the radio times picked up on that.

I just had the most like ambitious misleading headline.

Like, don't BBC TV this new streamer coproduction?

No, they don't.

They just mentioned that HBO has been working with them

in a Michaela Cole thing, you know?

Like, not Dr. Who, so gear down a little bit.

Well, that's a second quotes that you mentioned,

the making things at all budget levels.

That kind of gives me a little more of the warm fuzzies

than just saying this is important to us.

This is a never going to happen.

It's honestly, let's go call it again.

I mean, what's what?

Why pay for multi-camon?

You can only pay for one camera producer or a camera producer.

Just get a handy cam.

Like an 80s, no, a 90s handy camera.

I'm going to go, I'm going to go buy these handy camcorder.

We'll just make it like the bill.

It just like super rate the heck out of it.

Yeah, no, that would be stupid.

That would be quite dumb.

Yeah, I'm sure, that was in a tricking comment.

Like what, you know, Pico Paldi and that same interview

that I mentioned, like sort of said, like, you know,

Dr. You should be this sort of this little smaller thing

and then they made it big and then it's not

the only person who said that in the right way.

And like, how do you, in this, you know, environment,

how do you make a TV show that stands out above them all?

I think the dream of everyone who's been making Dr. Who

over the last few years, I think,

oh, wow, we could be Game of Thrones.

We can be that the, you know, the water cooler TV show.

No, no one, no show is, let's face it.

No show is, there is no show, no show goes out to be made.

No show is made to be that.

Yeah, it just happens.

Yeah, it also Game of Thrones is driven to the dirt

in this couple of season, last season.

Well, that's, yeah, too, it'll be that.

It also, it also, you know, was at the tail end of

everyone watches TV at this exact time.

And talks about it the next day.

And that is gone, you know, it's just not a thing anymore.

Yeah, although we're going to have some of that because now

we have three movie studios, movie and TV studios, three or maybe

I can't track anymore with Paramount Sneaky in and getting

a better bid for Warner Brothers.

So now they're going to amalgamate, probably.

David Ellison claims, I'll be 15 movies coming from Paramount

and 15 movies coming from Warner, but sure they're well, David.

Yeah, I'm sure I have faith in you, Phil, son.

I'm sure you can do it.

Yeah, what TV studios love to do when they just spend

almost, you know, $100 billion to buy another company

is spend even more to make, no, they're going to cut.

They're going to cut so many jobs and shows.

And even if they did put out 30 shows or 30 movies or whatever,

you're going to have half the staff to do it.

So yeah, great.

So maybe scratch, oh, let's not forget CNN is going to

already a bit iffy, is going to get destroyed by this,

right?

We're going to put Barry Weiss.

Awesome.

We live in an awesome media world.

Who knows what, I mean, to keep it in the sci-fi universe.

Who knows what this means for Star Trek with no real actual

new shows on the horizon?

I mean, I don't know.

Do you want better?

Who cares what it means?

I know.

I'm not a fan of the new regime, but I mean, other people are.

And the only, really, the after season two of Academy,

which I think they're either shooting or about to shoot

or have shot.

I don't even know anymore.

There's nothing on the horizon for new Star Trek.

Sarah, let me tell you something.

Now, Warner Brothers is going to be part of Paramount,

so you could have Batman on Star Trek.

Well, we've all been clamoring for.

Nice.

Yeah.

Stranger Worlds is rap season five.

It's done.

For principle, season four.

Season four, I think, just got wrapped for, like, post.

Right.

But it's puppet effects.

Take a lot of work.

It's puppets coming.

It's all a wretching in the edit suite.

Yeah.

Larry, lens players don't just happen.

It's not as guilty that as the J.J. Abrams amount.

Oh, but anyway, moving on, I can only be so negative.

No, it's a, you know, so maybe if you were thinking

of which, which American entity would the BBC pair with

to make Dr. Hope maybe scratch Paramount and or Warner Brothers

off the list there.

Please, please, I beg of you.

Do not let that happen.

Yeah.

It's, I don't think you have to worry about that one.

No, I don't think I do.

So who knows?

I do like that.

You go ahead, Chris.

I was going to say that one of the, one of the bits of

fault from all this is Paramount has to pay Netflix something

$2.8 billion.

Yeah.

For a bidding number.

That's a great work.

Great work, everybody.

Amazing.

That says money, that's money well spent under her.

That's so great.

It's all very stupid.

It's so great.

Although I'll give Netflix this or like, you know what?

Dell with this.

I can't say I blame them.

That's true.

Obviously, I think I have.

Anyway, we just wanted to drive at the price so you go broke

try to buy them.

You know, and that's pretty much the good.

So, so well done.

This is why I watch old British shows from the teller from

the seven years.

Yeah.

Yep.

So, yeah, anyway, I was actually, you know, when, when

Lindsey Salt said, you know, we want to do it right.

Like, we have to make sure we take the right time to do it.

And I like that because I, you know, we were, we've just been

going on about what this Christmas special is that doesn't

have a co-producer or indeed a streaming or broadcast home

outside the UK.

And, you know, right now, that episode basically feels like,

oh, you know, we were talking about this before we started

recording, Warren Beatty, filming an interview of himself in

the Dictatio, but just sort of like, keep the ball in the air.

Like, we're making a doctor who, which normally I would respect,

but in this case, they're making a doctor who to make a doctor

who at this point.

And no real reason to like, it's not really kickstarting a new

era. It's not really closing a current era unless maybe R2D

sort of sees a disaster, but he was sort of done with that once

the end of the, there's multiple versions between that, that's

through smells of indecision to me.

But yeah, but I, but I mean, we've been bracing everyone would

not not that we're the only ones, but we've been bracing people

just think that it's going to be a while for a new season of

doctor who to show up.

And honestly, I would rather rate three to four years to get a

properly made one than just having something on to feel the

gap, you know, so, which is why I'm looking forward to the CBB

version so much.

That's a good wind up right there.

I am. Listen, we don't know who's writing this thing, but this

might be the first time in the 21st century that we have

televised doctor who written by someone who isn't from the RTD

Stephen Moffat Christian point, it might be someone completely new

writing doctor who the official BBC may doctor who perhaps

somebody called caught.

Oh God, how dare you?

I don't understand.

So it's an AI thing.

Oh, thank God.

I don't know what that means.

I don't know you're so lucky.

You're so lucky to not know that it's so awesome.

We need to just ignore everything.

AI just like it's done.

Anyway, more on this over the course of the next few years as

we talk about the future of Doctor Who on this podcast.

Um, hey, uh, for those of you who enjoyed season two of Doctor Who

in the North America, it's come to Blu-ray on June 2nd, which is

exactly one year and one day after the finale, the reality

war aired or was dropped on Disney plus.

So that is keeping with the pattern of things, which means that

May 14th, it should be anyway May 14th this year should see and or

season two coming on a Blu-ray.

Like a spinning gold out of a not gold.

That's true.

And who knows what I ordered the UK version of the war

between the land and the sea.

It's it's arriving early next week according to my my shipping

effort because I don't know when or if that that thing's ever going to

come out in North America.

So you're in fact swimming alone metaphorically speaking a little bit.

So I'll let you I will let you know if I can play it on my Xbox.

If it plays fine on that on a region free player anything or if it needs to

be converted or watched on it on a different player altogether, which

that might be the last version of the Xbox to because there's a whole

bunch of machinations within Microsoft.

So you might be getting a PlayStation six.

Oh, no.

That yeah, we're playing on the cloud via AI or who knows?

There's some AI person is now a charge of Xbox and she seems to be a very AI

pill. Let's put it that way.

That's too bad.

Wonderful.

This is what I need in my gaming machine.

Anyway, the pre-order link is up on Amazon.com, not on Amazon.ca.

And I will note, not on the BBC shop.

They have completely removed any and all physical media off the BBC shop.

Doctor, you can only get t-shirts and stuff on there now.

There's no actual DVDs anymore.

So this is the sucky thing.

If you want to order blue rays, which I like to do, Amazon sadly is the,

the 90% of the time, the most convenient choice, you know.

So, so there.

Oh, well, now, fun times.

Yeah, look forward to watching the mysterious planet later though in 1986.

There's a new book coming out.

This is great.

Actually, from 10 acre books is coming out on May 25th.

It's called You Are Not Alone, a gay history of Doctor, which is written by Patrick

Mulkern, which, of course, was written for the radio times since 1984.

And Doctor Meg is in 1985.

Oh, he's been, does it go into classic stuff?

Because the book as I would assume is like, you know, the new series,

because it is very forward thinking.

But clearly, you know, way back when wasn't as much.

Oh, no, no, it's, it, it, it, it, it talks about like basically just how Doctor,

who is, you know, as it's sort of been, you know, spoken for, for, for queer people

watching Doctor Who, like, you know, as, as we know, Warren, Doctor Who is a large queer

van based that just last onto the show and have done so for way before the show came back.

Yeah, we, we, oh god, yeah, oh god, yeah, absolutely.

So, yeah, very interesting looking book.

And there's also contributions from, from various different people who, you know,

were she saying, Brian Hodgson, and also people who have played like, you know,

Mandip Gill played, um, yes, Doctor Who, obviously, and Matt Lucas,

Katie Manning, Matthew Waterhouse, Antica Wells, you know, all sorts of people who have,

have things to offer on this.

So, yeah, I'm looking forward to this.

Uh, and 10 acre books is, obviously, does a great job.

Uh, we seem to plug every book.

They announce on this podcast because every book they announce is a good book.

So, uh, Pielder is open now.

You can get it in, uh, trade paper, get back form coming on May 25th.

So, so there you go.

There you are.

Um, do you want to, uh, let's, let's, let's, uh,

let's overanalyze a couple big, finished coverage here.

Haven't these already come out like in terms of we've overanalyzed them before?

We might have done so.

We might have done this one already knew there's a new companion Chronicles, uh,

the legacy of time, which features a whole bunch of different, uh, um, characters in it.

I do love Pensive Delgado Delgado on the side here.

That's true.

Arches Delgado does not appear in this, but, uh, man, there's, who's, who's playing Delgado?

Oh, the Master John Colchow.

Okay.

Well, he's in good hands then.

There you go.

John Colesal will do all that sort of things.

Yeah.

Uh, there's the Brigadier.

There's, there's, uh, the first and second doctors on it.

There's some coral, some Cthulhu looking guy, Cthulhu, squid guy, um, Harry Sullivan's

in there.

Mm-hmm.

Wish mash stuff.

Two ducks.

Some lady was a companion.

Why not?

I know.

I know.

You know, also it's a thing.

Simon Gary's written episode of that too.

So there you go.

That's out from big finish.

And, uh, and then there's also a unit thing, a unit compilation, basically, uh, with

a whole bunch of different episodes set from across time, uh, one of which is written

by Andrew Smith.

That's coming out in April, unit era's hostile universe.

Um, let's talk a bit about Long Island, who coming up August 14th to 16th.

They've been out.

They announced a whole bunch of guests over this past week.

Peter Davis and Katie Manning, Matthew Waterhouse, Philip Seagull, if you missed him

at Gallifrey 1, you can catch a bit Long Island too.

Of course, he's the, um, producer of the, the TV movie, uh, Paul Jericho was going

to show up last year, but how to play, but he's back this year and no, not the mind

probe ball Jericho, uh, Fraser Heinz, Brian Solomon, a Sir Louise Madison, Jason

Hayler, a recommendation Mark Ayers and John Peele, but Eric Luskin, Eric Luskin is, so

for those that you don't, don't know, Eric Luskin was with the New Jersey network in

the 1980s and New Jersey network was like a PBS station that, uh, would make these documentaries

about Doctor Who, including the making of Doctor Who, that probably showed up on, on

the Silver Nemesis thing and probably season 25, that's it on there too.

And, uh, who's Doctor Who is another one that I remember watching and another, uh, third

one in my time of, of my early fandom.

So these are like the only documentaries about Doctor Who that I ever saw until, uh, Dr.

Glau, I'm sure Chris, you watched these, right?

You did.

Didn't you, Chris?

The, uh, energy and stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, the day.

Yeah.

I loved them.

Sometimes because they would have like little clips of like past Doctor Who things and

like this.

Still a van we had.

It was it.

It was it.

And Eric Luskin was behind them all.

Honestly, yeah.

Yeah.

So he's going to be at this convention.

Honestly.

I'm just like, this is the most excited I've been.

Not that I'm going to long on.

I do, of course.

Uh, but.

No, but I mean, like, I, I know you, Stephen, you and Ken have had conversations in the

past about that kind of stuff and, um, obviously that's, you know, Ken's neck of the woods.

Um, and so it's, uh, it, it, it, it, it, it, it seems like it's more of a surprise

that we haven't had Eric Luskin there before now.

Yeah.

Not the only foaming at the mouth weird.

I was like, we interviewed Bill Stanley and people loved that.

Like we do not, we just did it for the hell of it.

Bill, yeah.

Bill Stanley, the program director of, uh, KSPS, KSPS at the time of the 80s and 90s and, and,

but people loved it.

There is a demand for this kind of thing.

It freaks like us, but yeah.

Yeah.

A little, it is targeted, but you know, but that's a whole point of this thing.

Exactly.

Exactly.

You know, so anyway, we were excited about that.

Hopefully you will be too long Island doctor who.com, uh, April 14th, the 16th of the hot

sticky Long Island, there's a probably is in August of, I mean, so, yeah, yes, August,

you said April 14th, 16th, and I say April, what a foolish person in my, I'm in August.

An April fool, in fact, well done, that's a, that's a good Simpson's reference, sir.

I did.

Take it right forward.

Yeah.

Shaking a beer can.

Uh, there are a couple of things here, um, our, our friend, uh, Jonathan Helm, of course,

was, uh, who affects on Twitter and making Blake seven also on Twitter.

Uh, I think he's departing Twitter, but he's, he's going to better places.

Well, slightly better places going to Substack, which has its own little problems, but he's

open a new Substack page where, uh, the first one is, you can sign up for it.

It's for free.

Is he breaks down all the model shots for shot of that were somewhere shot in that first

studio session and others were not.

He sort of breaks down all the shots and all the models that were made for it.

Of course, they made it on film, 35 mill film for the, um, the special edition that came

out in 2017, which is amazing.

And, but I didn't, I, I didn't realize until I read this, that basically kind of like

the, most of the model shots were horns and I'm on a nightmare of Eden.

There were going to be shot in on cheap old videotape, apart from the big explosion, which

they did shoot the, uh, this, this, the space station blowing up.

Not when they shot on film, just like they shot the big, the power complex and the horns

and I'm on with shot on film, but everything else was shot on videotape.

So, so this, uh, this wonderfully researched and broken down, uh, with lots of great photos

from behind the scenes and everything else, um, is, is a great first entry in Jonathan

Helms new Substack links in the show notes, subscribe to read more.

It's great stuff.

Great stuff.

Um, I love, I love when talented nerds do stuff like this that, uh, I only subscribe

to Paul Wells Canadian journalist, you should subscribe for five bucks a month, but maybe

I'll subscribe to this one.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

I might chuck, I might chuck him a few bucks later on too.

I think I might do that too.

For his hard work.

Yeah.

Uh, and lastly in the news here before we get to the commentary, this is sad, uh, co-creator

Red Dwarf, uh, Rob Grant died suddenly at the age of 70, uh, of course he and Doug

Nailer created Red Dwarf and co-wrote it for the first six seasons.

The best seasons are going to be honest, uh, yeah, but I know actually watching the later

seasons.

They're not as bad as we remember.

I, I know, I know you like the, but, but Paul, they were gold, they were gold in those

first six seasons.

Oh, absolutely.

But they're not like, I think like my conclusion when I was, I was down in Mexico watching

with a friend of mine and we're watching going, you know, these aren't as bad as I

remember.

And I think part of it is you went straight from those to these, but if you don't do that,

if you just watch them, but the good 20 year gap between them, you're like, well,

these actually aren't that bad.

Right.

Especially compared to current and draws.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, the new ones aren't bad either.

The last two seasons, new, you know, about 10 years ago.

They're okay, but though, but the magic of those first six seasons, you know, no, because

it became like, I'm, you probably felt this way too, Chris.

It was like, you know, comedy, but also science fiction and they really leaned into the

sci-fi.

Like, it almost felt like this, this is what doctor who would look like had it kept

going on past season 26, you know, and it started to look good visually and it was better

as a sitcom.

Maybe it's better to sitcom, you know, the chemistry, this is shown in the newer ones,

is the chemistry between those guys is so perfect.

And that's kind of why like the whole Christine Kachanski thing at the time, it felt like,

oh, they're just, you know, treading water and they've given up and, but no, she holds

her own completely against these guys, which is no easy task.

And so, but just watching these guys interact, that's the, that's the nub of the whole thing.

Like, and you can surround it with cool special effects all you want, but that's not going

to take away from how good these guys are at playing off each other.

I don't know.

I think Craig Charles and what's his name, the other one, the guy plays, remember, Chris

Barry and half a year, but they're very good at playing off one another.

Yeah.

I don't know what their personal relationship is.

Well, at one point, apparently, they did hate each other, they may not be like that

anymore.

Yeah.

Well, I was thinking about it the other day when the broadband staff was announced that

we are approaching 40 years since it premiered.

So, yeah.

So, it's a long time for people to have any form of a relationship and I'm sure it must

have been strained for talking about saying I read third hand, so we don't know why

that.

Yeah.

But, yeah.

No, I mean, I remember season three, specifically, YTV had it first, and they chopped

up.

I'll say with Dr. Who, they chopped up, probably got, probably got, probably got, probably

got, which is, I think, by far, my favorite one.

Yeah.

It's so funny.

Yeah.

I skipped all together when YTV showed me stuff, but, like, even, like, I can say, I remember

watching, I didn't know it was on, and I was flipping channels one day, and I caught White

Hole, which is the last series three of memory serves.

But, yeah, the, when they, when I did see the YTV broadcast for that, they just, yeah,

there's put you to bits and, yeah.

But watching the first two seasons over and over and over is KSPS and played a lot.

Well, it's our methadone.

Like, it was what, like, we said this before.

It was what we watched, because there's no Dr. Who around anymore, so that's what we're

watching.

It filled the gap.

It really did.

And when they sort of started leaning a little more into science fiction stuff, like,

you know, actual, like, the model work was great, and like, the writing was great.

It was a great, but they wanted it to be more spectacular, and, you know, in a hint

of things to come for Dr. Who, that don't really make much of a difference at the end

of the day.

No, but season six was, like, sort of, like, the ongoing arc, the search for red dwarf

essentially.

Yeah.

It was great.

It was a, like, serialized thing, and it was, like, and that it was funny, and that the

plots are good.

Like, it was a perfect mix of comedy and sci-fi that, I think, well, I brought to it.

Sometimes they do interesting stuff, like, like, when they're stuck in a screen saver, so

it's all claymation.

Like, I was glad that they could kind of do crazy stuff like that, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, or stuff like time slides, you know, going, going into photos and, no, coronation

screen.

No, thank you.

Yeah.

What were the gold backwards?

That one's great too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Best part of that was the end where the cat has to pee.

Next.

Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.

Anyway, that, very sad anyway.

I now want to watch the first six seasons red dwarf again, just to celebrate and they

would have worked with us.

All in brickpacks.

There's a resident.

Oh, yeah.

They are.

Yup.

Their own brickpacks.

Yup.

Just last, last bit we're recording the sustain bid that the BFI is hosting the season

21 thing showing more is the deep still not on pre order here in North America by the way, but

Al Durer from character options was there and saying that there'll be 11 new

Action Dollars coming in the rest of 2026. So there you go kids look at that. They might buy a kid you mean me

Might not be new doctor who but there's gonna be 11 Action Dollars

Comment. Yeah, I sure hope there's a tie in with this and

Warren has a chance to buy a murkah warning fan in a bit. Yeah, oh yeah, I would buy all these

With Karate kick action. That would be amazing. I wish purchase involving a plastic dolly. Yes, indeed

Bliss from from what I've read this morning from friends who who were at the screening

Apparently a lot of the a lot of the enhancements for words of the deeper are quite good quite effective. Yeah

Can go nowhere, but up

That's pretty true. And I still love where is it deep. I'm sorry. I just do

Me too. I'm looking forward to whatever we get it here in North America, but

Let's break probably. Yeah, probably

Anyway, that's it. That's it for news everyone after the very short break

Dip back in time with us to July as we dip back in time to September of 1986 to watch part one of the mysterious planet in our classic series commentary

I

Am I

More on the condenser most most will look you forward to excellent your decafonic style

This is the moment when I get at the you feeling of job satisfaction

Welcome back to the classic series commentary portion of this podcast or perhaps you're listening on patreon

The entire podcast if you listen to this or we're recording a whole bunch of commentaries early just because we can

So this might come out listen. We might be enjoying the CBB's

Edition of doctor who by the time this commentary comes out who knows. I just think about that snapshot in time

This is uh

This is an exciting time for for me personally. We are about to do the first four episodes of the trial of a time lord aka the mysterious planet

Um

Which is what it's was known as an novelization in which we'll be referring to it now

Um, so uh, I hope you've all got your legally purchased season 23 aka call and baker season one blue rays

At hand

Because here we go kids

Trial of a time lord part one

In three two one play

Oh

Boy this uh my favorite doctor who seems yeah at the time I was blown away like oh my god

It's the same visuals, but the music's different. I like this new music. What is going on and the extra rainbow

Let's not forget that now yeah

And then just and that's right. Well, I mean that was already on since the twin dilemma, but uh, I didn't okay

Yeah, so this font was different for for us in North America because they they couldn't somehow match the font of the

Mondebus versions

Okay, but oh my god silence because this is like the greatest moments in doctor history

Honestly, it is I mean it was the most expensive shot ever made in in the entirety of 20th century doctor

Caused like 8,000 pounds to make this so good. It still looks so good. Yeah, it's so good

They could be playing a session it and I played this exclusively because I'm just like this looks so it's still

The the original

The original model footage the like which goes for a lot longer than than the broadcast version is on it

It blew me away. It is blew me away too. Yeah, this bit here. That's the spinning over like the so the tardis is is like

I think it's superimposed. Can you say it's sort of see bit of a mat line on there? Mm-hmm. It looks good. It looks amazing

And then you're back in the BBC studio

Hey, you know, the model the model itself is impressive enough

But you add in motion control camera. Yeah, adding spin tardis top-down view of the spinning tardis

And it's just that it's it's it's it's greater than the sum of it's we've never seen any of that before in doctor

So none the the quality of the the model making and like I don't know who built the model

I think it was Mike what's Mike Kelt who did the Mike Tucker? I think it was Mike Tucker

Like Tucker was he like this? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm sure

Uh, I thought he only started like in like on

I don't remember now. I'll just you on it for now

Anyway, it reminds me of of the the type of model work that we'd see on red dwarf like in the in the midway like early 90s ish

Which they used a lot of models of course in that too

um

Just fat just absolutely it blew me away like I remember seeing this for the first time

You know, it wasn't 18 months for us. It was a week

You know, I'd just seen revelation of the galaxy on pbs the the weekend before and it was just expecting another doctor

episode

Mm-hmm, and then this popped up trial of a time lord um, and I don't even think it's had a part one

I can't remember what the omnibus version had it

It was just like a square aerial font for the credits. It wasn't your standard credits font because they

They packed them differently for omnibus and and outside sales so

Anyway, people hate the trial sequences. It's kind of my favorite part. Honestly. Yeah, this is this is like you and the uh

The fantasies. Yeah, that's a lot of political intrigue of stuff like because at the time with the prequels

This is a whole other angle of Star Wars. We'd never seen before all the intrigue and high level stuff

That's going on you only ever saw kind of like which was what was good about the original trilogy

But you just saw the kind of like the boots on the ground stuff and now there's this whole other level of stuff

This isn't quite the same thing, but I always just kind of on all the

Back and forth here is all a lot of fun as far as I'm concerned right

And also there's a couple of ropey stories after this one. I know. Yeah, yeah

I feel like we're getting the best one with this the fine. This is a final one great. It christian you need to determine that this is the final uh

Final choice for every time. Yeah, um Mike kelts

I was right about Mike kelts. Yeah, who did they are? Mike Tucker was one of the assistants on yeah on the uh sequence

I figured he was like early days from Mike Tucker who of course even the gala france are better than the Americans

You were deposed because you neglected the duties of your office. I noticed that right

Is that like America? Yeah, Colin Baker insisted on that going in because it's yeah, it's a second

I think you'll remember in episode six k. Okay, the five doctors that uh and episode he wasn't even in

They made him president, so

Yeah

Uh, yeah early days from my Tucker Mike kelta designed the um five doctors console

Oh, okay. Yeah

Which still exists today. It's the only existing uh doctor who prop from the classic series of consoles that uh that existed

And I bet sir Michael jayston champion chain smoker quillers own

Michael jayston he's in so much like as as someone who you know

Trolls through a lot of uh classical british telechannel's on youtube. Let me tell you Michael jayston is in that honest stuff

I love his costume design and that it's time lord, but it's not as over the top is the other ones

Yeah, I would have been awkward if he had the collar on yeah, but I just think this really works. Yeah

uh

So back back in what 88 when I first saw this uh

The first thing the blue me away was the music the second thing obviously was the model set the third

Obi-fi video baby we are on Obi-fi video and I thought oh my god, we're an Obi-fi video even then I just thought this is amazing

I think it's a cool looking for us like just all the fog and all the rest of it. Yeah, it's

The first piece of Obi-fi video really since the early Tom Baker era. Yeah, I think you're right

Yeah, stones of blood was the well

We could we could do a whole history of the Obi-fi video the last over video actually was they shot

Obi-fi video at shepherton studios for warriors of the deep because they didn't have a studio space for it, but

For that was more or less a one-off and before and it was in yeah

It was in a studio. They also shot Obi-fi video for parts of the theater sequences in

Talons of Winchester. So is this supposed to be the same time frame as like arc and space and all that where or but they go down to the

The nebulous future

Yeah, just kind of you know just

Slowly wave your hand in the air future

I mean Robert Holmes is sort of kind of borrowing ideas from previous scripts and some of these stuff so it's uh

Well, it was almost deathbed for Kermany's sake. I may as well have been well literally it

I mean, this is the last complete story that he that he writes uh, yes. Oh, yeah

I just remember reading in doctor who magazine at the time

I'm really like a year later or something about how they're people raving about how these two get along now

And they're not at constantly as serious throats

Which reminds me of kind of the compolity era of compolity becoming

Way less of a grumpy old sod and yeah more of a compassionate dude

And it it was mostly actor driven too like the dialogue here is

The same, but they're playing it much more

Mm-hmm friendly

uh

Yeah, yeah, trial the trial colon is my favorite. He's which is why in mind work the heel turn just does not like it kind of shocks you a little bit

Yeah, I'm being nicer now. So I love these two. They're just such ridiculous nonsense

Who are the thoughts of the first three times we'd see sable on clips? I know right

The the glitz true. Yeah. I was trying to think of the third one. Yeah, mm-hmm

Dibber Dibber a little less so perhaps, but uh

Dibber is just every British guy in the 80s

Dibber he's one of those guys. One of my favorite one of my favorite thing is was

Yes, I'm really stupid when the just just the the the the the um cutting of the the um beard

Right go on did you did on the oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the separations and little razor cuts, right

I thought that was I thought that was cool as far as like futuristic

stuff goes. Yeah, uh Glenn Murphy there by the way plays Dibber

Is an OBE now he uh he went on to like found like a theater company or something for for kids or something

I think I was like ever what it was, but he is an OBE uh

Out of all the cast of

That's pretty good because this was shot on OBV

I mean part of me should say you know what this looks like the little is hobo right because it's an OBE video

I don't know if that's that you're talking like that's a negative. Come on. I know, but why I'm I

I don't know why I see it as such a positive. I

I think they are they are

They are near London after all. I don't think it's a nostalgia

I think it's honestly that I can no longer tell the obvious joint between studio and location

and

And you know we've talked about how like all film productions from the UK in the 70s and 80s just feel slow like the

Sweeney feels slow. Yeah, that's true. Whereas I feel like you can't get away with just standing still for a long time on videotape like you can on film

Gangsters does that too gangster does feel a little slow because it's all on film. No, it's not a film. Why don't you go to watch gangsters for I've seen

Okay, I'm thinking of the original movie uh also partially on

videotape I think uh maybe I'm wrong okay. No, no, no, no, I'm not wondering now I'm wondering

Okay, I got to call this up while we talk about this, but uh

Yeah

Um

Nicola Bryant's finally given some clothes to wear although she does look like she's on to like a

Business meeting or something like that. I'm not I'm not too sure, but it is 1986 though. That's pretty toned out for 86. Yeah, I mean those shoes really don't go with uh that environment

Poor shoes all the time

Unlike Cliffs and every hero. I'm like full on boots and mm-hmm

That's my favorite and I'm saying that sarcastically thing about every home improvement show where they've always got the

Burley bear of a man who's like doing all the work and then the the wife runs the company and she

Eyes comes in and even though she's been on a million muddy disgusting building sites

For some reason TV she's wearing high heels and they make a big thing out of it. I'm like

And that seems ridiculous mm-hmm

Just like filming a renovation seems ridiculous actually. Yeah

Let me get even go back to the first Jurassic World or what's her name?

Bryce Dallas tower it is running around in high heels which seems silly and people roasted

Rightchously, right?

So like a salamander on his neck or what is that?

I don't know. I apologize. Why aren't you right? It is uh all film for the original play today. Yeah

I apologize. That's quite all right. Don't worry about it

So

So the only copy I have apparently is a 16 by nine version of it. This is just insulting

This is not the original aspect ratio of gangsters

Anyway, the the TV series uh for gangsters is eventually a book your basic combination of yeah

Which I never mind it. I was it was interesting and different. Yeah, well, it's I mean the some of this the

Quantum you know cinematography for lack of a better word of the stuff

Especially directed by Alistair read on gangsters is amazing on on studio. Amazing

It's such a shame that we never got Alistair read doing doctor who maybe because he was too good for it

I don't know but are you guys like me where the first time you ever went to marble arch station you hold it

Mark station. I've never been I think I've been to marble arch station. I remember I heard about an actual marble arch station

Years after that. Oh my god. That's from doctor. Oh, did they name it after the one from doctor?

That's probably what I thought

So I know I wasn't aware of various tube stops back in those days

But you know what I want to know station in relation to everything else

You know, it's near Hyde Park and et cetera, et cetera. Okay. So there's a chance. Maybe I have been to it

Well, I know you've been to war. Oh, I have to have been because it's by the British Museum

So I must have oh marble arch yeah, not really no

Okay, it's quite a bit west of yeah, you're right. I'm looking for you. You've been you've been to Warren street

I know that because we have a photo of you out there. Yeah

Probably made it to cock fosters probably to be all off the cock fosters. Yeah, I've never

Yeah, you can always tell the foreigners on the train including myself because we're all giggling like stupid idiots about cock fosters

I

Got a rabbit

Oh, what the uh, I'm on his you know, by his ear there. It's a rubber home story. It's in the 80s is such a odd thing, too

I know it's a spiel snake. That's what it is. It's Robert homestead. That's probably a bright. It's a gumball jack

There it is

Which was also rubber homes. I know that's what he's saying that man

Mm-hmm

Everyone's hair has gotten longer

Colin Baker looks more and more like John Nathan Turner at the request of John Nathan Turner

I think you literally wanted to cut his hair I think and no, no, no, no, no, my hair's getting the same way

Let's just keep it. Isn't that like Lynn Liberatio had his lover become more looking like him. Oh, baby

I mean Nathan Turner literally like basically bottled Colin Baker's look on his own because you basically

Maybe insert character here, but that's that's weird. That's a bit Marty stew. I believe it's in term

Uh, I don't know what you're talking about one. I got like Mary Sue is is the author self inserting so as Marty stew the male version of that

Oh, I did not okay

Well, it's mostly because idiot to don't I think what film yell about it like Ray is apparently a Mary Sue for Kathleen

Candy which seems ridiculously nontentical to me, but that that's a two million two million years or more past Perry's time

There yeah

Those way past arcons we way way past yeah two million years later those um that was a desk later would not be a thing

I don't care how well melmade marble urges

But you see now like the fact that it's all on videotape. I know this is a studio now, but at the time

I like I thought wait a second. Are they shooting this all in location or is it not like I'm I'm

I'm learned in now you've you've got me doctor who no longer am I laughing at you're obvious uh

Change between film and videotape. I just think it's all one part of a piece now

I always just found that really cool the uh the film and videotape thing because you never saw it in American TV

No, I just thought it was it was even even I was a kid. I just thought no

Although what I what I thought was wrong is that I could always tell when they were cheaping out and shooting

Uh, like you know an outside scene quote-unquote in the studio and that like those are the scenes that always like no

This sucks

Yeah, yeah, I'm with you on that one. There's a lit there's a one scene in the mutants that I remember

It was like at the camp one of the at the warriors or something and absolutely three or four of the mutants

I remember watching up for the first time thing. I didn't know this sucks

Doctor who sucks. What are you doing? It's one of the two moments. I do but the mutants kind of sucks too

I know though that it was that moment

It's that moment when I write you down

When the little dude comes out in this chair. I was like all right. I'm not out

But I'm sure it's only in colony in space. Oh, I keep mixing those two up. I don't know why

Why do I keep doing that? I know there are different stories. There are the four stories in each of their

That's probably not why backing seasons. No, okay

I just think of that little guy as a mutant probably I know well listen least colony in space had the

The gumption to film their scenes of a clay pit outside on film. They never tried to dummy up a

Studio set for that and I unapologetically love calling it space

I love unapologetic. I love most talk to you. I love this story

I know of some people I love all of trial and that might be honestly that first impression of when I first saw it way back

When and the fact that it was a serialized thing and it kept going after each like I was like you know

It's kind of like a full circle moment for me the story full circle

And then when the fight when the credits roll after that first story from me

Zombie bus version. It's like oh my god. They didn't get out of this. It keeps going. This is so awesome

Which something that key to time kind of sits in between

Yeah, that that and you know traditional

Um episodic stuff. Yeah

I just fired up and Wikipedia the mutant and I'm reading this going I've seen this

But to me it's a missing episode

Mentally it's like it goes away. Yeah, it's like mashing my dragon for me. It's just never really sad and that's the opposite

I love masking my dragon

Hmm

I think the awakening is probably yeah, that's probably one of the ones I would put in that same category

Uh, it's also Dominic Lin's first time and doctor who of course doing music and uh

And when I saw I guess around this time

I want to see where where this when this aired for the first time because not long after this oddly enough it was the making of

um

Silver nemesis went out

On kids, but yeah, so I I saw that around the same time. So I bought a

Sandless a cheap sampling keyboard from radio shack and and learned how to play it and a lot of that was incidental music from this

Basically and the opening pedal sequence, but anyway born you were saying

I was saying when I that same DWM they reviewed this episode and I can't remember the name of this actor the woman in charge of the

Jones sims don't sim they would not stop going on how great she was and I'm like, I don't get it

We know she was the first example of me going

Oh, this is somebody I've never heard of who everybody knows about in England

Yeah, she's she's a name

From what I can't remember. Yeah, but but everybody writing for DWM new exact kind of grown up with their and I was just like oh

I mean many times that happens this I mean this is the RTD gene here happening where like oh an old

An old name of of British telly in film as a as a miscass as a leader of a tribe. These guys are great

We're guys with these sacks in our heads and sticks. I think I think you'll I think you'll find that janty

Really beat RTD to the punch many times on that

But you know that's that same that same mentality then oh god. Yeah barrel read and what's your face from

So remember this is yeah, there's a whole host of

Ah

That may be familiar to you that helmet

Third of four appearances for these helmets

first seen an air shock repainted for

Vengeance on Verus the year prior

Now they're there. I love when they have characters like this um the guy in all black camera's name

Uh, he's talking there in the previous scene

Meridian yeah, cuz he's a hard man. Yeah, full of hard balance in the street to Kent played by Tom Chadbonne of course from city of death fam

He's dug in so Sylvia Simms from ghost light

At least he was playing like a like a straight roll though, but you're right. She was gonna like that old

You know, it's still like the the old classic. Yeah, at least in certain circles of the really big name

I do love that apparently Joan sim here said um sim sims like i'm her sims

Uh said that um with the wig on she said she looked like Bonnie Langford's mother little did she know that Bonnie Langford is about to join the show

Hmm. Yeah

Which she's right. She just kind of look like Alfred between like kid Amara and uh

Joan Joan sims appeared in 24 carry on films. There it is now as one does that's that's as big a

As big a

Litany of credits as one could ever hope for that is an impractical mask on the guy behind glitz

For for what it's worth just going back in my own personal history a doctor who uh may

28th 88 on ksps was the first time I saw this on the omnibus version

Later that year in october october 15th

They got around to the mutants. That's its first time. I saw that December 10th was the making of doctor who what a year

What a year my first this is a this beard guy looks like a thorough they got lost. Yeah, he does

Yeah

He's just he's other he's not a time sensitive. He's other wise

sensitive

You're rich poetry

Yeah, he writes it in crayon

It's cold

Yeah, they must have windy. Yeah, well, that's one word to tell it's not in the studio. I suppose

Got this guy's a really long neck by the look of it

He looks like a cat a goose. Yeah, what what I like about

And it gives call Baker a chance to shine this story is that literally everyone else around him is

humorless

I'm using that yeah, so like you know, I really don't know

So he call a baker has a real chance to be like the the light character in in all of his scenes like it be in the trial

You know both the inquisitor and the valiard are are are humorless goofs

Everyone here is all of humorless goofs. So he like

He shines in this. I love call a baker in the trial of time. I love him

He's got no competition in that

Yeah, you know

He's he's allowed to be as as wacky as he wants to be

And he's when he needs to be in the trial sequence. He's pretty great. He's so great. He's so great

She has a machine gun

I mean, he's my favorite line of his probably in his entire win is 10 million years of absolute power

That's what it takes to be really corrupt that whole sequence is awesome

I think for some reason the first time I saw this was at a 10-0 meeting

Oh, really, I think you're I think me too. Yeah, I think we might have been that same meeting. Yeah, I remember

when the

Canada goose book got mentioned the reaction from those. Yeah, can't imagine watching it one of the future's here. Yeah

For what it's worth that that 88 may 88 broadcast was the first time it aired on KSPS

So I caught it on its first time through

I think two years probably we probably would have seen it with some like

You know off-air

Probably from Bellingham because they were getting it off KVOS. I think it was in Bellingham. Oh, okay

And somebody to explain where Bellingham was to me because I had no idea

Not been there. Have a test of the Canadian goose by HM stationery off. Oh, yeah

They won't know Canadian author HM stationery avid how many times is Canada mentioned a classic or any who for that matter

Well, it's got the pennant behind

Right? Yeah, and in the talk to you about

Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be clashed out all the while. Yeah, there's that. I think clause of access mentions it

This the Canadian wheat planes are safe and enemy of the world. That was the biggest thing of that coming back

We got to finally see that scene

And there you go

All of the efforts in Nigeria worthwhile

We like to well two of us like to slag off strange new worlds, but when they came out of

An area and it said Toronto's eating center, and I was like did they just forget? No, it's actually set in Toronto

Okay, all right. Here we are. So Star Trek beat him to the punch a punch that they're not aware is a race except in my head

What do they make rocks out of because I feel like this upcoming

That would that would hurt. I would yeah that umbrella would not survive. No, and it didn't it didn't long

These guys are kind of yeah, you know there. I remember as a kid going hmm. These guys are kind of mean like they're on rocks in somebody

Mm-hmm

I thought he's like not quite sussed out that he might be in trouble here

Even the boss even the trial room scene is impressed

I'll look me up the set because they could more ties over this over 14 weeks. They could build a big set and have it

I don't know how they the lobby in front of it is a little underwhelming a little bit

You only see it for a short amount of time. Oh, there's your first

Well, yeah, first of 11 times in this in the defense of these guys how is they gonna do this? Yeah

It's a trial scene. What else you got? It's a cliffhanger

Yeah, yeah, and it's gonna have to end at the trial room probably so well

I mean also him saying oh this should now be a trial. I mean it's called that the trial of a time lord

It's like the planet of the it's like

The original version of that I think only had the lights coming up right then and it's like oh by the way

You're in a trial thinking that doesn't work

I don't do that even do that. Yeah, I cried so that's why they changed

I mean and maybe that was a holdover from from that

Well, that's that's just holding back on due process which as we know it would never happen ever happened

They go completely by the book on these things are you giving me?

I think there's an old-be lighting person like did they create the sun or what no they have lights on location

Yes, if you did it's a secret amongst old-be lighting if you would have watched the making of Dr. Who back on December 10th 1988 on KSPS

If you if you

If you watched it as specific time Chris and I'm gonna be feel guilty about it you would have seen the endow on location showing you about how they lit things

I don't care for Tony Dow from leave it to be over. All right

That's fair

Who's not in the next episode of the trial of a time lord but other people are and you can listen to us

And watch along if you want commentate over that episode on the next classic series commentary

So in the meantime and in between time. I am Stephen Edmonton more in a man cooler and Kristen Edmonton so long for now

You

You