Radko Gudas Fallout: What It Says About the Leafs and Hockey Culture

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The Raccogood is hit on Austin, Matthews is sending ripples around the hockey world.

We'll talk about the fallout from that plus a big slate of weekend games coming up next

on today's Lockdown NHL podcast.

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I'm Gil Martin from Lockdown Islanders.

I'm here every Friday with Rachel Donner of Lockdown Flyers and Happy Friday, Rachel.

Happy Friday indeed, unless I guess you're Toronto Maple Leafs fan at this point.

That would make it a little less than a happy Friday, I guess, for a lot of Leafs fans.

And wow, I have to say that was a pretty flagrant knee on knee hit by Racco Goodis, a guy who

does have a reputation for going over the line or very close to it frequently throughout

his career.

What was your initial reaction when you saw the replay?

Yeah, it was funny because obviously covering the flyers, I was watching the flyers

versus wild games, so I did not see it live.

But I went back and actually went to the game replay to try and get it in context and

watched the whole five minutes leading up to it.

And then the aftermath, the period break, and then a little bit into the next period just

to make sure that I had it covered.

It was absolutely astonishing how flagrant it was and almost seemingly out of nowhere.

I mean, Goodis had gotten into it with somebody else along the boards first and maybe felt

like he wasn't satisfied with that.

So he just went after, now Matthews was open in the slot.

So it seems reasonable to want to try and prevent him from getting a shot.

But not that way, like there were so many other choices that could have been made in that

moment.

Yeah, no question about that.

And I mean, obviously we do not know as of the time of this recording the extent of Austin

Matthews injuries, how long he may or may not be out.

But obviously there's just no room for that play in hockey.

It's a knee on knee hit.

It's a flagrant knee on knee hit.

And I mean, I for one was surprised that there was no reaction on ice from the Toronto

Maple Leafs.

Yeah, that's been kind of the bulk of the conversation.

I think coming out of this, there's the side conversation of the additional suspension.

We'll get into that because I think there's a question on that front as well.

But the big conversation has been why didn't the Leafs like go to bat for their captain

afterwards when he was down like that.

And I get it.

I understand people are angry about it, right?

And I think apparently Craig Barubi was angry about it.

And there was some conversation that he kind of took it out on the team a little bit

for not responding appropriately.

I don't necessarily agree with that.

And I may be in the minority here, but and I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but let

me tell you why.

Number one, the play was called the right kind of penalty at the time, right?

Gouda's immediately went to the box himself, right?

He didn't have to be dragged off, they're like, he just went straight to the box because

he knew what he had done.

They gave him a major and the misconduct.

He was ejected from the game.

That was the right call.

The Leafs did in fact respond with two goals on the ensuing major penalty, right?

They responded in a hockey way to the penalty by scoring those goals.

They won the game, which was their first win since the Olympic break, right?

And we know they're not making the playoffs and like, that's not the point.

But the point is they responded in a hockey game way to the incident, right?

So why was there a need for additional fisticuffs when the offending player basically took care

of himself and the officials tossed him from the game?

And everybody knows Racco Gouda's reputation.

This is like part B of my argument here.

We all know, do you think the ducks are going to go to bat for him?

Like what point is there for the Toronto Maple Leafs to start punching other ducks who

probably also know what a stirr Gouda is and they have no reason to go to bat for him

because of his reputation either, right?

He was out there.

He was welcome.

I know.

When they go to bat for him and I get the feeling they would, I get the feeling they would.

And to me, it was so egregious.

It was so everybody knew it was egregious.

So what good, what additional punching and penalties do to end me, buddy?

And like, the ducks needed to stay out on the ice.

This is an important game for the ducks.

It is.

Remember what incentive do they have to get into it to defend an egregious play by a guy

who has a terrible reputation about egregious plays who got properly removed from the game.

They have no incentive, none, none whatsoever.

To me, from a team standpoint, this incident illustrates why the Toronto Maple Leafs are

less than the sum of their parts that they are having a disappointing season.

Like you mentioned Craig Baroube, his NHL career was made on defending his teammates.

Trust me.

I know.

I was there.

I was there for him as a player and a coach.

I know.

Right.

If he was on the ice as a player at the time of this incident, he would not have, they would

have not been time for Radco Gouda's to get to the penalty box because he would have

had to have dropped the gloves immediately.

And look, this is your captain.

This is arguably your best player.

And if you have any amount of team cohesion, of team spirit, I mean, I will just ask you

this and I know it's a long time ago.

But if the same thing had happened to Bobby Clark, what would have the flyer's reaction

have been circa, you know, 1975 or six, I think it's got to see it on Eric Lindross as

more of an appropriate.

Okay.

If that happens to Eric Lindross and I believe, you know, Lindross was involved in some terrible

collisions over the course of his career, cost him his career.

But I mean, if that would have happened to, you know, most teams captains, there were even

just any player you've got to stand up for your guys.

That is part of hockey culture and it is about team cohesion and you, you have got to, if

somebody takes a dirty hit at one of your guys, I've had this issue with the Islanders

all season long where opposing teams were running Matthew Schaeffer who is 18 years old

who is not a physical player.

And the rule should be, if somebody takes a dirty run at Matthew Schaeffer, the response

should be immediate.

You cannot do that and if you do that, these are the consequences.

And I think we're already seeing and we'll talk about this more in the second segment

that the Department of Player Safety and the NHL cannot be relied upon to consistently

apply fair suspensions and fair fines, their track record is poor at best, but if somebody

does that to your captain, they've got to be sent a message right away and unfortunately,

the league discourages players from policing themselves and then doesn't do a good job

of policing the players, which makes it even worse.

I mean, I guess there's an argument to be made that someone should have taken a run

at Goudus himself immediately just because it was so egregious, but that's the only thing.

I think getting any of the other ducks involved is kind of...

I don't know.

No, I don't think they needed to get any of the other ducks involved.

I think it's been directed directly at the perpetrator in this case.

Sure.

He just literally went straight to the box and I just don't know.

I understand it from a cohesion and this is hockey culture sort of thing, but I guess this

Leafs team, I just don't know what they could have done.

I truly don't believe that it was necessary in the moment.

I think as long as they're responding on the ice in their play and talking about it,

which they did afterwards, you know, the quotes were on point afterwards.

They were.

And so I feel like taking a run at Goudus when everybody knows what a terrible on ice guy

he is, like to me, I just don't know how that helps.

See, to me, that's why you have to do it because you have to even...

You have to send a message to Goudus and you have to send a message to anybody who's

going to try to do something like that, that it's just not acceptable, that that behavior

comes with a price.

And I just don't think that message was adequately sent by the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And, you know, yes, the post game quotes were all on point, but the post game quotes also

unanimously said, we didn't do something and we should have.

And I mean, again, I'm not saying go after other players on the ducks.

I'm saying make rat Goudus pay for his or at least stand up for himself after when you

take a chicken bleak shot at somebody, you better be willing to stand up for yourself

because you should have to stand up for yourself.

If somebody does that to a member of your family and a team is supposed to be a family,

you don't ask questions.

You just go in there and take care of business.

Yeah, I don't know.

I honestly find it childish, like I do.

It may be.

The code is childish and I don't like it.

And I think the hockey response was good enough for me in that moment.

Okay.

The two goals were good enough and the win.

They were good enough for me in the moment.

And I think that it shows a maturity, honestly.

And maybe they could have gone after him.

But and I do think the point about player safety is a good one.

And when we get to that part, I think I'm more on board with that part of it.

Okay.

But my point is that what player safety does and does not do makes it even more necessary

for the players to send their message.

Because you can't rely, it's like if the, if you're on the street and the police department

is not coming or if they come, they're not going to help, you've got to take things

into your own hands.

And in this case, I don't think the NHL can be relied upon to consistently apply justice,

quote unquote, in a fair and consistent way, fair enough anyway.

Little delve into the NHL player safety aspect of it and a whole lot more coming up next.

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So we have not gotten a final verdict yet from the Department of Player Safety, but they

have announced that it is not an in-person hearing, which means what, five games, maximum

suspension.

And I'm already disappointed in that announcement.

I'm thinking double a five game suspension based on the flagrancy of the hit.

We still don't know the potential injury, but it looks like it could be something that

will keep Austin Matthews out of the lineup for a while.

And obviously based on the reputation that Rat Gogudas has, he has been suspended four

times in his career.

And yet, five games maximum to me is way too lenient already.

I think so.

I absolutely agree.

Now, part of the consideration in determining where the penalty is going to lie is the

type of injury to the player, right?

We don't know that maybe player safety does, like they have that information behind the

scenes, and that's what led to the not in-person hearing aspect of it.

Still, I think regardless, it should have been probably a 10 games suspension.

Just again, given how egregious it was, and I just don't understand how you're going

to, to your point, and this is like the part of it that I agree with, is that player safety

does not do enough to try and mitigate these kind of plays.

And that's what forces the players to act like children and fight when something like

this happens, right?

And then they go around and penalize the players who stand up for their teammates more

than the guy who did the initial thing.

And to me, the guy who initiates it, see, the instigator penalty should go on the guy

who made the flagrant hit, not on the players who were defending their teammates.

You instigated this incident by making a dirty play.

You should get the extra, you know, penalty.

But the league is saying, we're going to take care of that guy.

So if you do the next step, you're instigating.

But they don't.

And we're already seeing five games maximum for this play by a guy with a bad reputation

and a history of suspensions.

Again, if they were at least consistent, I would have less of an issue.

But when you tell the players, you can't take this into your own hands.

And then you drop the ball and don't handle it properly.

It just reinforces the player's need to go out there and do frontier justice

and take things into their own hands.

Because you can't rely on the league.

And again, if the Department of Player Safety was really concerned about player safety

and getting these dirty plays out of the game,

you come down really hard on racco-goonish.

You don't give them five games.

It could turn out to be two games.

We don't know yet.

But five games maximum is already way too low in my mind.

And that's if they throw the maximum at him.

Yeah, I mean, I agree.

I think it is to, it should be a 10.

That's my opinion on that.

That's my initial reaction as well.

And it's not just this incident.

I mean, we have seen so many situations, even with finds where you're like,

well, this got fined and this other player did something that looks 10 times worse

and they got nothing.

Like, and the finds themselves are so small for a guy making $5 million a year.

A $2,500 fine is like, you and I paying for lunch at McDonald's.

It doesn't really add up to much, you know?

I mean, price-wise.

So $2,500 fine for a guy making $5 million a year is not significant.

Yeah, you know, I think it is one of those things where we're going to have to see what

comes out in the wash and what the explanation is and evaluate it from there.

But yeah, I think just neon knee, especially given the kind of injury that that can cause,

this really seems egregious enough to warrant a full-blown suspension there.

And I agree, the inconsistency is what causes some of the parts of hockey that I don't like

to happen.

Right?

Yeah, you know, and it's funny because I watched a little bit of the Euler's Stars game

as well.

I want to make David got into a fight, right, and that came over something so much smaller

than that, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I feel like if he's getting into fights over something that's small, like there's

a problem with the evaluation of these sorts of incidents, right?

Sometimes there is.

Absolutely.

But I mean, I'll take it a step further, though, what if the Leafs were actually in contention

for the playoffs and then losing Austin Matthews for, you know, that would, that changes

their whole season if that's the case?

I mean, it could, it very well could change their off season.

It could.

It could.

I mean, I think that there's something to that in terms of where the Leafs stand and

how much they're going to tear things apart this off season, what the injury to Austin

Matthews looks like, right?

And what this has done, you know, you can take my opinion or leave it, like honestly,

it doesn't bother me if you disagree with me.

I think Gil's, you know, your side of it in terms of the team cohesion, it's a valid

thing.

And I understand that's hockey culture.

And if this kind of drives a wedge in the locker room, even more to the point where you

feel like you have to tear it down even more, I mean, there's something to that as well.

Yeah, I think it exposes an issue in this locker room in Toronto that they just lack cohesion

and, and togetherness and, you know, that is, I think, getting back to what I said earlier,

one of the reasons that this team appears to be less than the sum of its parts.

Yeah, now it is interesting because, you know, the Leafs don't have a ton of UFA's this

upcoming season, like the quote unquote core is under contract for quite some time.

And so for them to make changes to the core of this team is going to be a project for

the Leafs to pull off.

And so it's like, are they going to be in treading water mode and just make changes at the

periphery because that's going to be easier for them to do with the dollar amounts and,

and all of that.

I mean, they're only kind of reasonably priced player at the moment that's like very good

is Dakota Joshua, right?

Right, right.

You know, making 3.2, everybody else is making buckets of money here and, you know, I mean,

it has like no move aspects to their contract.

So it is going to be a tough road for the Leafs if they want to change things for the better.

And if this exposes that culture in a way that they're going to want to kind of push that

process up a little bit, like that could be interesting.

Yeah, I mean, we have heard some rumors that some of their star players may want out of

Toronto.

How truthful those rumors are.

We don't know.

Can you imagine Austin Matthews somewhere else next season?

Maybe, maybe it's going to be an interesting offseason in Toronto.

Let's let's put it that way.

Yeah.

But anyway, we have got more to get to on today's show.

Lots of big games this weekend with big playoff implications.

We're going to talk about that next.

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All right, big weekend of NHL action ahead as we head into the stretch drive before the

playoffs and tell you there's a lot of really good games on the slate.

A lot of them affecting the Eastern conference playoff race.

Let let's start with Saturday right off the bat in the afternoon, you've got the ducks

in the senators Ottawa in the hunt right now and the ducks obviously battling for their

playoff position.

This should be a good one.

Yeah, an Ottawa in particular, they have a game in hand on the teams around them coming

into these games.

And so they're kind of in the driver's seat, but they've got a back to back on Saturday

and Sunday starting with this ducks game here and like the like I think these two games

that they're playing are going to be so critically important if they're going to have

a chance at like crawling their way back into one of these wild card spots because literally

everybody that's right around them is playing on Saturday and some of them are playing

each other.

Yeah.

So like no, but not everybody's going to get the point.

So Ottawa like they this is a must win for Ottawa.

It really is and and you know, you also if you're Ottawa and again, and this is another

thing I dislike about the way the NHL runs things, you have to not only hope that the teams

that are playing each other, you know, the right team wins, but you really have to hope

that they don't go to overtime because then both teams that you're fighting for a playoff

birth with will get points and that is just so frustrating, but we shall see.

How about the San Jose sharks and the Montreal canadians?

Yeah, I mean, this is separate from that race a little bit here, but a very important game

especially for the Habs none of us.

Yes.

And then the Bruins and the capitals two teams Bruins in the caps on the outside looking

in, but still entertaining hopes although the caps have played a few extra games compared

to the teams they're battling.

Right.

And you know, the capitals I think have not been playing great recently.

They did just beat the Sabers, but I think that was more of an anomaly in terms of how

they've been playing.

I watched them play the other night against the flyers and they just were like not looking

great.

I'm going to say, especially after trading John Carlson, I think this team just, there's

something deflating about that move that I think has kind of changed the energy for

them, but I think again, I think the Bruins like they have to win this game in order to

keep their spot here and given the way the caps have been playing in general, like I

would have to give this one to the Bruins, but that's why they play the games.

That is why they play the games and one team that has been playing well as of late the Columbus

Blue Jackets.

They've been going up against the Philadelphia Flyers in a game that both teams desperately

need.

Yeah, this is a huge game for both teams.

I think as we know, the coaching change that the Blue Jackets made this season has absolutely

done wonders for them.

They've just been playing so well ever since and they've bought into the system, they're

bought into the team culture and the flyers have been kind of up and down a little bit.

There have been more up recently though since the Olympic break and have found a gear that

they didn't have.

They had early in the season, kind of lost for a while and they just were able to defeat

the Minnesota Wild in overtime and they're seeing that there's still hope here and this

team with this coach and this culture is not going to give up until the very last second

here and like this indivision battle, I think this is going to be a great game.

I truly do.

It should be.

The Red Wings and the Stars going head to head again, Dallas is in that three-way battle

in the West in the Central Division and Detroit fighting for their playoff lives as well.

Yeah, you're welcome, Dallas Stars, by the way, for the win over the Minnesota Wild

Air.

I'm sure they were, although it was overtime so the Wild did get one point out of it, excuse

me, a shootout.

That being said, yeah, this is also hugely important for both teams.

I mean, obviously, Dallas is going to make the playoffs.

There's no question here, as are the Minnesota Wild, but I think for the Red Wings, this is

where that wild card battle comes into play here and they're treading water to try and

stay ahead of the Bruins and all these other teams that we just talked about that are

also playing and they've got to keep up and going up against Dallas in order to do it.

That's a tall order.

Yeah, going to be a challenge for sure.

And then the Penguins and the mammoth, again, two teams battling for playoff positioning.

And the Penguins fighting for second place in the Metro, trying to hold on there and the

mammoth in the thick of the playoff fight out West.

Well, that's the thing is that Columbus is only two points out from the second and third

spot in the Metro right now that the Penns and Islanders are holding.

Right.

And so again, for them to be in a more secure position and stay in that top three, they have

to win this game.

Absolutely.

And then Sunday, the game we're keeping an eye on, the Anaheim Ducks and the Montreal Canadiens.

Yeah, now this is also more for the Ducks in their battle and their back-to-back, right?

You know, we have the Senators and with their back-to-back, the Ducks have a similar situation

where they're battling and, you know, after the defeat to the Toronto Maple Leafs and all

of the drama around that, the goodness suspension, like the way that they respond to it, I think

is going to be almost as important as how the Leafs respond to it.

It is going to be vital that they don't lose their momentum as a result of fallout, no question

about it. It's going to be a very exciting weekend of NHL action and hopefully we will see some

really good games and I'm looking forward to that. You could join the every day or club now with

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