Real World Speed Test: Cervelo S5 vs Cannondale vs Stromm | NERO Show

0:00Alright Jesse call three bikes. I took them into sentinel path. We've done some speed tests on them. We have some results. I want to go through all of that. But before I do, I probably need to talk about what bikes we are talking about. Mm-hmm. What do we got? These are the three bikes Jesse, the Canada Super 6 I'm on, the Sivello S5 and the Strom Ratt. So Canada Super 6 being one of the highest rated do-it-all, correct? So of Aero tweaked, but still a do-it-all sort of climbing bike. Yep. In the mix. Then you had what was regarded as the fastest Aero bike, generally you could get plus or minus a couple of watts, which is the Sivello S5. Yep. And then you had the new kit on the block, the Strom Ratt, which was released about a year ago. See, Otter, I think, was the first time it came across our horizon. Mm-hmm. And then it looks like production was maybe a bit slower than planned, because we haven't seen many of them. There were some teams in the US riding them, but we haven't really seen any reviews of it. And they would have had some big claims about how fast this thing was.

1:00And they were going like, guys, this thing is in another league. You thought the S5 was the fastest? This is cut and dry another step above. Well, is that true or not? The first bike is the do-it-all, the Canada Super 6, it is a frame size medium. It is running the reserve 5764 wheels, an Aero front tyre 32, Conti GP 5000 rear. It's running a SRAM groupset, which is 2 by. The Sivello S5, same frame size 54, same handlebar configuration 36 130. It is running a 1 by X-plore groupset, which is one of the differences. Which is on paper is like maybe a what faster sort of thing. We standardised the wheels and the tyres across those two, so that is running the exact same wheels, the exact same tyres and the exact same saddle, a geo-bomised saddle. Okay. And just so it's the same spec bar width, but whether shift is measuring the same distance apart.

2:02No, so top of the shifter, to top of the shifter on the cannon Dale, was 29 centimetres and on the Sivello is 26 centimetres. Okay, so you... We'll do a little handlebar rabbit hole as we go along, but yes, that is narrow. Now, the new kit on the block, the strom rack, same frame size 54. They call their handlebar a 125, which is a 125 stem, 36 centimetres in the top 39 in the drops. It is running a 1 by road groupset with an arrow front chainring, the wall frame 52 tooth. It is running the same front wheel, so we've standardised the front wheel and the front tyres across all these bikes, so that is a reserve 57 front with the arrow 111 tyre. On the rear, however, it is running a light carbon 65mm deep wheel with the same tyre, the 32 that all three bikes have.

3:04The shifters were narrower on this though, weren't they? They're still measured 26, so exact same as the Sivello. Okay. Obviously the position that you're in and how wide your arms are makes it pretty big aerodynamic difference. So, kind of the penalty overall is going to the Super 60, the S5 and the strom of the handle. Correct. The other thing to note, it's just on standardising all this sort of stuff. And so, Mick Cupid, my bike fitter, we've standardised the height of all these bikes. They're all within two millimetres, exactly the actual height of these bikes. Other little quick notes, round water bottle on all bikes, even though some of them have, all of them have arrow bottle cages. Nice. Computer mounts. So, the strom comes with its own big nano works, battleship integrated computer mount, which hadn't arrived at the time. So, as you can see in these photos, the strom has the computer mounted on the stem, which I then did across all three bikes.

4:05I did the old set of Garmin with the little rubber bands across the three bikes. And that... And the palmetre. And the palmetre, of course. Sorry, the palmetre was the Assioma Pro RS-2s. Is the Shimano pedal palmetres, which we swapped after every run. Ah, headache. So, let's go through results. Strom runs. Every run was set at the same distance 7.5 kilometres. We have the power, the time, the average speed, and then we've also normalised to 43 kilometres an hour average speed, so that we know what the wattage different was, we did a bit of maths there. So, strom runs. Power required to ride at 43 kilometres an hour was 290 watts, and then 292 watts on the second runs are nice and consistent there, so 291 watt average. On the S5, it was 301 watts and 305 watts, the 303 watts average, which is a very big difference. That's 12 watts.

5:05Yes. Difference to ride at 43 kilometres an hour, which is significant, and both runs from each bike were pretty close to each other, which makes me think that should be outside the margin of error, even for the outside testing. And these runs weren't back-to-back, just so it was an A, B, C, C, B, A protocol, basically. Then the Canada Supersix, the first run was 305 watts, which is sort of equal slowest with one of the S5 runs. But then the second run was 294 watts, which was only 2 watts slower than one of the strom ones, so 305 and 294. So this was, we were kind of going through, it was going, okay, this is a funny one. This is an odd one. Just give me a minute, I'm going to explain what I think's happened here. This is the ride on Strava. It says my name, you did it, I just uploaded it on private to my account, so I can analyse it. Within each two laps you did of Centennial Park, you crossed one full segment once, which was this one called Centennial lapsocial.

6:07The fastest lap you did of that segment was obviously going to be on the strom at five minutes and four seconds, yeah. Also equal fastest was the second run of the Supersix, five minutes and four seconds, only doing one more watt, which doesn't really make sense because the second, the first run of the Supersix was slower, yeah. So it doesn't really make sense that the second fastest full lap of the day was on the Supersix, which makes me think that something was happening drafting wise, somewhere along that lap. Because that second run just didn't make sense, and I think we'll get onto some video after. I recommended actually just removing that and just using the wattage at 43 kmph from the first run, which would have been 305 watts, which puts it basically the same as the S5. I mean two watts slower, but margin of error, yada yada yada about the same as the S5. And that's the results. I'll go through that again. 291 for the strom, 303 for the S5, 305 for the Supersix.

7:13And just to keep it nice and neat, or if you just skipped directly this bit, because you didn't want any detail, here you go, strom racked, gibbet line, the fastest on test, 291, 12 watts slow as the S5, 14 watts slower is the Supersix. All right. Holy crap, first of all, I was not expecting that. Yeah, I was. That level of difference from what is already a very fast bike, it's almost unbelievable. And yeah, it is, well, yeah, which way do I want to go on this? The first thing is that that difference is basically what they claim. Okay. So in their white paper, they've got the racked versus, I think they call it competitor C or something. I think we know what competitor C is. And they're in their white paper and they've got the your angles, etc. It's it's around 10 to 12 watts in their testing. Okay. Faster than the S5. So straight off the bat, that's kind of lining up pretty much with them.

8:14Also pretty cool for the Supersix. Yeah. I mean, I big, big grain of salt with that result, but if you know, to be that close to an S5, we're kind of splitting hairs on it. For what is a significantly more comfortable LiTAR climbing, basically climbing bike is pretty, pretty impressive. Now, I mean, they counted our fanboys, but oh, you took out the fast run. What did you do? So I just want to quickly anecdotally, I thought I had b-roll of this because I had the mettersung glasses on and I thought I hit it at this point, but anytime I got near traffic, I was hitting the the thing just to make sure I had sort of and content of it, but they're on that second run on the back straight. I had a line of cars riding almost along with me for probably the best part of eight to 900 meters. And that was at the point of the of the circle where that would have been giving me quite a nice little sit in behind that line of traffic.

9:14And as you can see in some of these images, I'm trying to follow the white line in the middle, which is a little bit sketchy, but that is to try and to keep the actual distance perfect the whole way. And at certain points, I mean, ideally you do three laps. The more laps you do the thing, the better it is, but if you did three laps, two runs, you'd be there all day. So you went with two laps, so you get that's just part of the payoff. But here's the positions. This is that. That's just quickly. So these are stills that you've took a tagging of a video. Is it? Yes. Stills I've just paused the video and pulled just randomly like look at the side photos. I mean, it's pretty good. I mean, the biggest. The biggest. The biggest difference I can see is like the angle does it really show it too well, but like the bars are wider on the. So this is interesting. Yeah. Um, and actually the position looks narrowest on the S5. I don't know. That's some kind of optical illusion or because maybe the levers look a little bit more tilted in.

10:15So it's kind of rolling your forearms in. I'd almost say. So maybe a bit higher on the S5. I'm like, no, they're so what? Okay. Can we just go down a little almost like handlebar rabbit hole? This is a good shot. You see this one along the top there. So what I find, especially with the the Canada was the best example of this. If you have a look at my forearms, you can kind of see me getting a nice rest. I'm able to plant like the back of my arms on that big MoMA bar because of the angle that it sits at. It actually allows me to take weight on that. And that's why you can kind of see me almost relaxed into that position and actually able to get a little bit lower or a little bit more relaxed because of that resting point. The S5 handlebar doesn't have that little protruding section of the top of the handlebar

11:15to allow you to do that. So you can see therefore basically all my weight is taken really on my hands. And so that's why I probably look a little bit more upright. Just because I'm not quite like sitting into the position quite as quite as well. Now if you go then to the rack, the rack does have the just the top of the handlebar. It's just behind my wrist. You can see I'm able to just sit my wrist on that and take a little bit and then kind of just squeeze my shoulders in a little bit. So it's actually and it was quite interesting jumping between the three bikes repeatedly like this. I wrote scores down after I did each run about how difficult it was to hold the position. Skincer looks good. Yeah, certainly. So the most difficult position, most difficult run was an eight out of ten. I marked I would as soon as I finished I would just pull my phone out and mark it.

12:17Most difficult run was an eight out of ten, which was the second S5 run. I found that the most difficult to hold the position. All the rests were kind of the strom set around five to six and the canondale was five to six as well. So that S5 position was just a little bit more difficult based really on me. Just not being able to relax my wrist as much. You've just blown ten watts on the S5. What are you talking about the position for? What's giving some chance? I didn't expect. I would go back to the line. I did not expect that result. It's phenomenal. I am completely blown away with how fast that bike was. How does a frame make that much difference? It is almost unbelievable. It's an incredibly unique bike even just aesthetically looking at it, but the way it's built.

13:17It's just like the opposite of the factor one. The front of this bike, in terms of its fork, it almost wraps the front wheel. It's thick, it's deep, and it's almost shaped around the front wheel. It's so close. The bottom of the where you actually put the front wheel in, I know this is because we have to keep changing the front wheels. Is it tapers in so much that you almost have to physically have to pull the dropouts out to fit the front wheel over and then it clamps back in. So it's all just about completely reducing frontal size as much as physically possible. The front of that bike measures about 20 milts, two centimeters. So to give you an example, like an S5 is like 36 somewhere around there. It's almost half the width of these bikes.

14:17I suppose my answer to you is that's where it maybe is happening. But yeah, there's not a lot of trickery anywhere else. There's no holes in the handlebars. I mean, it really looks like a very normal rear end of the bike. Very thin seat stays. But yeah, there's 10 watts on what was really the mark and spread. I'm kind of stoked because for so long, we just sat here and went, oh, yeah, it's pretty close to the S5. Oh, yeah, it's pretty close to the S5. Well, that's as far away from the S5 as like, what a mill, the first generation mille. Like what's 12 watts slower than an S5? Like a Madonna? These sort of things. So I wasn't expecting actually. You did a thing on Instagram asking people, what bike should I test? Because originally, you're just going to take two. And I said, don't bother taking the rack and the S5 and only doing those two.

15:21Because if it's faster, I doubt it'll be much and then we'll have nothing to talk about. So I said, I was like, we'll take the Super Six. So at least you get some separation. Boy, I was wrong. The difference between the rack and the S5 is more than the S5 and the Super Six. And the Super Six is a glorified climbing bike. Yeah. With like just way less material. Like look how much more material is on the S5. I don't know. That's kind of changing my whole. I was going, oh, we're kind of reached the peak arrow thing. It's, it's done. It's done. Look for other things in bikes. It's it. As long as it's quite a student S5, don't worry about it. Let's go test again. Go ahead. Go ahead. Wide tyre clearance. Go and get some comfort, whatever. Yeah. But now you're like, well, hold on. Would you pick a Super Six or a strum? There's, because if you were just saying pick a Super Six or an S5, up until there, we'd probably go, well, I don't know.

16:22Not you have a muchness. Probably you just, you know, it depends what sort of what you want. Now you're kind of like, well, hold on. Do I want to give up 14 watts or whatever difference that is, which is clearly significant? Yeah. And just in terms of the runs, you can kind of see it. So you've got this one lap segment that we can kind of use. Strom was 40504 505. S5 was 506 507. So one second apart each. And then again, the Super Six was 510, slow, 504. But equal faster, some tests. And that's what I mean. Just if we're just looking at that Super Six result again, what something happened there? But you know, even if you take the slower one, 510, it's only like three seconds slower than the S5 one. Two things I want to say. First is it's crazy how fast these bikes are, just generally. And we bang on about testing wind tunnel testing, speeds, not fast enough, blah, blah, blah, blah.

17:23And we get criticized, oh, not everyone, they're my average speed of my ride isn't shut up. All right, because this is just, so 300 watts in a racing aggressive position gets you to average 43, almost sometimes 44 kph an hour. And Centennial Bucks not flat. It's not flat at all. And it would be faster if it was actually flat. And it was windy, it was a bad wind, it was consistent, but it was a bad northwestern, southwestern, sorry. And so it would be a lot faster with those conditions. And so the reason we bang on about why the testing needs to be at high speeds is because this is not the moment or the power that you're doing to when you're pulling a turn at your at your local group ride, or you're trying to get off the front, or the moments that matter, I suppose, you know. And so this is kind of just doubles it down for me that this speed at this wattage is a clear example

18:26of why we want to see the testing done at higher speeds. And finally, we will do a review of this bike. This is not the review of the strom, obviously. One thing just that I need to clarify before I do progress with that is so the bike that I'm riding is a pre-production frame, the one that is being sent out to customers, obviously is the production frame. There is a slight difference between the frame I am riding and the pre- and the production frame. And according to strom, the original layout, the bike that I am riding, has a 58 to 48 to 51 Nm per millimetre in zedless stiffness at the bottom bracket. And the production, one, the one that's being sent out to customers, is 63 to 75 Nm per millimetre. So the frame that is being sent to customers is stiffer than the bike I am riding. What difference 10 to 20 Nm per millimetre of stiffness in the bottom bracket

19:26feels like I do not know. I'm actually kind of really pissed off. What's the point of the review now? We're going to do the whole review, or you're going to do the whole review and then go, but actually you can pretty much throw all this in the garbage bin because it's not what you're actually getting. I mean, if the arrow testing stuff is fine, but there's no point having great arrow testing if it's then too stiff and you didn't like it. Or if you do like it or you thought it was too flexing, they fixed it. There's just way too many different scenarios. Not a good caveat. But how is it thing? I don't know and you don't know what 10 to 20 Nm per millimetre feels like. Exactly. That's the problem. Yeah. So it could be, it could completely change the feel of the bike. No one could ever notice the difference. You don't know because you're not going to ride the production one. So how can you, there's basically no point during the review? Yeah, because we're going to have to just go, here's a review of a bike. No one's ever going to ride. The reality is that a bike that, as narrow as this and looks like this,

20:28is going to have some pretty unique riding characteristics. One of which people would be worried about would be how stiff it is, just due to how we're going to narrow it is. So it's almost like that's the, that's the metric people want to hear from me. Oh, shit, this bike is crazy fast in a straight line. Oh, but I bet it's a noodle. Oh, but I bet it's waiting you up. And you're not going to be able to, so reviews are wasted time. I'm actually super annoyed. It's annoying because it costs money and it takes time to review a bike. The bike had to be built. You had to source parts to put on it. You had to go out there and ride it. Had to get fit me. Get your fit done. You go all this effort to review it and then they're like, oh, we changed the layout. Like, okay, well, I may as well just throw the thing in the bin. If it was me, I wouldn't even bother reviewing it now. Well, we were already talking about it. What's the point? We can give the biggest disclaimer in the world before you do the review. It doesn't matter. The reviews are going to be out there. People are going to go, oh, Chris hates it. Oh, Chris loves it. But that's not the bike. It's just, it's just, they should have said we're making changes to the frame.

21:34Do you still want it? And we've got to go on, no, just wait. Send us the one, the production one. But they sent it. Then once you'd already reviewed it, went, oh, actually, we've changed the layout. I don't know. That's up to you. What you have. Yeah, yeah. I think it's. I know. I know. If we obviously chatted about this, I mean, there's a, there's a world where this is the review. I mean, let's be honest, 80% of the people who are probably looking at buying a strom saw me say it's 10 watts faster than it's five and just pressed by. So they don't give a shit how it actually rides. Or you review it. And then you go, oh, I'll get the, I'll get the next one. And I'll get that rebuilt and get my fit read. And the slide gets in there. It's an ever ending rabbit hole. Now, look, I will do something. I mean, there was some really unique stuff in the build when Ed built it up that I want to talk about anyway. So even if it's just a build review and we kind of leave the ride out of it at this point, I don't know. So tune in next week to see what the hell we do. We do. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now, Jeff, our friend at NorCal cycling fellow master's cyclist

22:39has a bit of a back issue, Jesse. And I want to chat through it because I think this could be a little bit of a common thing. I was doing a pretty standard gym session that included deadlifts. But look, guys, I'm not going for PRs. I'm not trying to bulk or anything. I was using very modest weight like I always do focusing on form. And I'm not lifting to failure. But the next morning, I woke up particularly sore right here in my lower back. Again, I chalked it up to Dom's delayed on set muscle soreness. I actually went out and rode my bike the next day despite the stiffness. Because I'd been through this before. But that was my first mistake. The sort of felt stronger than it should have. And I thought, well, the MRI confirmed this picture again. A severe L5 S1 disc herniation. In plain English, the discs are the little shock absorbers between your vertebrae, which can either bulge or in my case even burst if overloaded. And that material that bursts from the disc has now compressed the nearby nerve

23:45down my spinal cord. And this is my... Now, Jesse, Jesse, Jesse, Jesse, Jesse. You don't have a cute pain around the area because the disc isn't supposed to eject out the rear. And then you've also got the spinal pain down your leg because it's compressing the nerves. So you're kind of screwed. Now, best wishes to Jeff with text to him, past on our best, he's got surgery planned, etc, etc. But the reason I wanted to bring this up is now you have a little bit of a personal history. I have the same. I have a disc bulge L5 S1 too. Right. Not herniated. That's probably herniated. Mine's just bulging. But he's the people who have disc bulges, it's not rare. Most people don't even really know, and they get everyone, they go, oh, this bulge. Now, I'm not going to do it. We're not doing victim blaming here, but I do just want to sort of chat through a little bit about his protocol and what do you do? But let's start with that because you have a similar thing. The similar thing. And it is same. Mine's kind of different in how my pain comes on if,

24:48then Jeff, because Jeff sort of said, oh, it felt a bit off then on the preceding days, it got worse and he got pain down his leg. Mine's different. So mine is like, if I'm doing a exercise, I shouldn't be doing it in the gym, which is loading my spine and my core has to brace. It'll kind of go. I feel it go. And it's not the disc blowing up or herniating. It's just something tweaks in that area. And then my whole back just locks up and I can barely stand up. And then it takes like three or four days to eventually, I keep movement around, eventually it releases off. But when it goes, I mean, it goes, it's like I can barely, almost barely walk out of the gym. So it comes on sort of instantly. But yeah, it'll happen if I'm doing squats, it could happen if I'm doing deadlifts. Last time it happened, I was even on a, what I thought was a safer version of a strength training program was doing like seated non-chest supported cable rows. And even that, it just went for one rep and just,

25:48I couldn't do it. So what do you do now? Do you? He mentioned, he mentioned stuff like, you know, it's not trying to, well, this is the weird, yeah, but this is the weird, this is the problem and kind of the weird thing with gesture team, he's going, I was doing deadlifts, but I wasn't even doing them that heavy. And I wasn't even doing them near failure. And I still hurt my back. And that's just very odd, like there's not much point going to the gym and doing an exercise that your body can't tolerate. And then to do it safely, you just have to do like lighter weight and so many reps away from failure that what strength gain are you really getting at that point. So if you have an injury like that, especially if you're doing strength training for like a cycling benefit, you just just avoid an exercise that loads your spine at all. Like you can just go and do leg extension, leg curl, calf raise. If you're doing a something that has some spinal loading, you could just do a single leg. So it's like half the load going through your spine, like a single leg leg press would be better.

26:52Step down, step up in the Smith machine. There's heaps of exercises you can do that don't load your spine as much. The idea that you just still include deadlifts, but then you're not confident. So you don't go as heavy. It's like, it's the worst. He was clearly still putting himself at injury risk and wasn't getting the strength training benefit. I mean, most of the strength training, at least as it relates to cycling, is they're either going too failure for a lower number of sets, or going kind of one to three reps in reserve, which is still pretty heavy. If you do a set of seven reps or six reps and you have two in to failure, that's hard. That's heavy. So yeah, I think probably just a scheduling issue. So what do I do? I mean, I don't even mind's different because I'm not doing strength training for my cycling. So I don't train my legs at the gym. I just do upper body. And all my upper body stuff is inside the fully chest supported row, or I just do pull-ups, lap pull-downs.

27:52I really don't do anything that loads my spine. I understand Jeff's mindset with why he went in and did his low intensity sessions, because you do kind of get in this mindset a little bit with the strength training stuff, or at least I do, that you kind of feel like you've got to keep it ticking over. That's sort of like, oh, we are a bit stiff here, but I'll go in and I'll do the movements, and that will in some way. The combat movements are good, because it's multi-joint. And it could use it overall. I'm getting all this stimulus, etc. And that, I 100%, that might not be what he was thinking, that would be playing around in my brain. And I have basically had a very similar situation to this. So about 18 months ago, I was just going into the gym and doing whatever I could do and bashing myself. How clean, how clean. How I'm going to get here. And I was talking about it on the show, and I was saying, look, I think I'm, I think I'm injuring myself. Yeah, I'm just going in and rip it in and doing all these kind of movements.

28:52And someone, or each day out at a local gym, and said, look, we'll sit you up with a personal trainer and come in and learn the movements. And so I did that for about six months. And it was really interesting because in that whole six months period, the weights that we were lifting were, were like he was really what he's talking about to get my form right. We were pretty much wasting my time in terms of actual strength training. It was really low intensity, intensity stuff. Well, I've got a good grasp on the movements and all that kind of stuff. So what does Christo, once, you know, the personal trainer, we finished with that? Well, I get back in, I know how to do this stuff now. So I start ripping back in, in that whole period with the personal trainer, we never went near the sort of weights that I was lifting by myself. So I'm like, right, well, I've learned all this stuff now. I'm going to go back in and put all what I've learned to practice and here we go. Here comes some PBs. And it worked for about three weeks until,

29:52when you were the trainer, how hard were you going in the, in the harder working stuff? So we were doing, we were doing like, what do they call it? Like essentially almost high, what's the like hypertrophy stuff? So we were doing like 12 reps. How hard were the 12 reps? Were you like getting to the end? Towards the end was near failure. Yes. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. But it felt like I suppose the, the 12 reps is quite lower for recycling. Yes. And I knew that at the time, but this was more about, at least I felt, and here you go. I think that was why he was doing it. It was like, this was about the form. Get the, get the motion right, etc. And anyway, Chris goes back in and I'm like, right, I know how to do all this stuff now. And I think I texted you when I did this about a month ago, squats, trying to do a five, five rep, like max sort of thing. On the third one, the back just went, and almost a week then afterwards of walking around

30:53and, and what, two, two, three weeks of it, walking around struggling away with it. And I think a lot of it comes from scheduling because what I like to do, I like to have rest days. So I like to have Monday and Friday as complete rest days off everything. And so that, therefore, would mean if I'm going to go to the gym twice a week, it would often mean trying to go on a Thursday evening and a Sunday evening. And they would be after, normally a solid sort of ride that day. So I'm already kind of fatigued going in, trying to do friggin max, Olympic lift efforts. And I think I'm getting to the point of eventually anyway. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And I think I'm getting to the point and I, don't get me wrong, I put strength, I put a lot of like, Chris 2.0, not skinny Chris, he's sort of, you know, better riding and all that kind of stuff down to a good strength program that I've done for years.

31:54I think it's time to call it a day when it comes to just the real, that sort of heavy dynamic lifting stuff. And do exactly what you said, incorporate more of the machine-based stuff when I'm doing heavy things. Well, there's a few things. So when you would started to, when you were, so you might have felt like you were fine with 12 reps, which was up until that point. I wouldn't even guarantee that. If you did those that 12 reps to that intensity, I wouldn't guarantee you wouldn't never have a back issue. It could still happen. It's like less likely because it's less low through the spine. But when you went to the five reps, so you could have worn a belt, a weightlifting bet will help. Did you wear a belt? On that particular occasion, I didn't. Yeah. So a belt can help reduce the risk a bit. But yeah, I think like long term, don't give it up. It's just like in some of the strength training, they research the diverscycling. They're literally going into a lab and doing joint movements,

32:55like completely isolated knee extension, knee flexion, ankle plan deflection. Like their strength training is not even exercises. They're just like in the machine doing the things. So like the idea that and it's kind of perpetrated by the, or promoted by more of the fitness injuries, like you need to do your heavy lifts, you need to do compound movements, I need to do my five by five squat deadlift bench. It's literally three scrolls on Instagram and I've got someone telling me, this is how I did 700 watts for three minutes. Yeah, it's got to do a squat. Oh, if you've got like a perfectly fine spine and you've built that, that if you've built the structures around your spine to support that for years, and you have no biomechanical thing and you can do that and not get injured to fine. If you know you've maybe got some propensity for an injury, don't even bother. Just go and do, as I said, just do leg extension. It's fine. You can grow your quadriceps doing leg extension. Do it fully isolated. It doesn't matter. Don't give it up. Single leg leg press, whatever.

33:58Like just change the exercise. Oh, yeah. When I say give it up, but I'm not saying giving up the gym. Yeah. And it's stretching imagination. Yeah. I think where there's two, you know, I got in there. The dude next to me is like this big Irish dude. It's got like the, he was like running just the socks, he had the whole look. And I'm there next to him with my little, my little kind of numbers and like, all right, here we go. I can, I can, I can, I can step it up here. No. No. There's hips and machines now because all the women all train their glutes and stuff. They've got like the hip abduction machine. Yeah, there's all range of stuff you can do. If in doubt, just do the safer, more controlled, more stable exercise. I actually preferred one. I did that anyway. Because going in and actually, once, if you're training a lot on the bike, going in and actually doing like, full squats and deadlifts and stuff is just super. It's like the mental strength, equivalent of almost doing like a threshold session. Like, do I really want to burn my bickies to do a training session?

34:59Or is like, oh, if I can just go sit and just use the pin loaded leg extension machine and yeah, okay, the sets are hard, but it just doesn't drain you as much. It's kind of, it seems lazy, but I actually think it's preferable that you're not burning through your mental bickies just to do as one strength training session. I think it's worse in that. I think it's like a VO2 session. So I had a VO2 session on my schedule. I've got one this week as well, but last week. And I continued to, it's like it sits there in the calendar looking at you, just waiting for you to sort of get nearer and nearer about it. Eventually, so it's the first one I've done actually indoors. I didn't did it on this with bike. I missed the window to go out. So I finally, I normally would try and do Bellevue Hill, which is around a three minute effort up there. But I ended up doing it indoors. I find doing them indoors, at least the VO2 stuff for me now is that I can't, I can't really quite hit the same powers, but I feel like I can actually go deeper. So I can ride like into oblivion

36:01if I need to with the VO2 stuff. I can't turn out the same sort of power, but I kind of feel like in the end, that sort of balances itself out a little bit. Because it's less like external. Oh, I got to, I'm going through this intersection. Quick check over that way. You're just like, oh, full blackout, Mark. The screen's going blurry because I'm near the end of the interval. And I must say, in workout mode on Zwift, I want to turn this off. Someone tell me how to turn this off. It does that thing where it goes or friggin' like funky towards the end of the workout. I'm like, am I doing that or is it seen automatically? I did a 40 minutes zone four effort the other day, like sweet spot. I'm 20 minutes in and it's going fuzzy. Yeah, I'm off way through. I'm not back cooked yet. Yeah, I don't know how to calculate that. I'll have it for the last 10 seconds. I don't need it for the full run through. Do you wear a wedding ring? Jesse? You do. But you're not. Sorry, ladies. Sorry. He's taken. He's taken. But you're not part of the aura bandwagon, but a lot of people are.

37:02It is the wearable to get this the wearable. It's much more accurate taking those readings from your finger that it is your wrist. So that is my recommended wearable. And if you do use it and you're a joint cycling member, it plugs straight in. So it just goes and pulls your recovery store straight from aura every day and then it updates the training based on that. So you could always go in and it would ask you, what's your readiness? What's your sawness? That's sort of things. And then what update the training? Now, if you can't even be bothered doing that, you just wear a ring all day and it'll do it automatically in the background. So that you're just not following blindly a training plan with no relation to how you're feeling. It'll update the training and get you training harder when you're more able to respond to it and just back it off when you're aura ring thinks you're a bit tired. Join.cc slash neuroshow 30 days, a free instead of the usual five. Give it a go. Get another session and get another little block in before before the offseason. Block blocks. Big block. Let's go. Speaking of mutants per millimetre. I know. What do you mean? It's not it's fine.

38:03It's fine. This is a seeker spear cycling news. Reviewed this about a month ago. And then that they made a real about it and it was kind of getting some views. And then cycling unboxed. Did a reaction video to the chat about the seeker spear. So let's just hear what Will had to say in his review about the seeker spear. I'm sorry. I'm not picking on him. I just he comes up in my algorithm. Will's my favorite. And then there's someone does a whole video reply. It's like we have to talk about it. It's not. It's just a cool. Keep it up. Will. Don't listen to coil. No, well, you haven't heard what I'm going to say. It's true. It's true. I'm also doing this with you because you've reviewed the mic. This is this is this is. If you can just try and rejig the memory. I'm not where I've been thinking. Okay, good. Low weight and we'll get to the value in a minute. What's the catch? The catch I'm afraid with the seeker spear. It's quite a floppy bike. I'll do it. Now a lot of that I think is down to the rapier cockpit. Plenty specable enough. Fluffy cockpit. It's very wobbling. Especially during sprints you can feel quite a lot of movement

39:04in the drops. And even when you're in the tops. And it doesn't just stop there. I found when I was cornering quite hard. Especially when you were kind of locked in the saddle and your bars are kind of twisting it. It's slightly different access. You can feel the whole frame flex underneath you. And when you're in twisty descents, you know, we are up out the way at the moment. But, you know, a lot of my roads back home as well. But look at David, he's feeling of being quite imprecise in the corners. Which I wasn't particularly of great fan of. The flip side to that, it must be said. This is extremely comfortable. Okay. I agree with it's comfy. All right. So, so yeah, floppy, it's floppy. And then so the bars are a bit floppy and the handling's a bit imprecise. So then cycling on box, who's got one? He does a video reacting to that. Let's hear what he's got to say. Then I want to hear what you think. Thank you. And cycling news there have basically used the word floppy. It is not a floppy bike. That I can promise you.

40:04Doesn't feel like whenever you're moving the bike, the bike shows Oh, flopping and wallowing all over the place. Definitely not. The bike feels quite light and energetic really. And if it was floppy, I feel like it would be exacerbated on this size here. Which is the biggest size that they do. They're extra large. You know, just because there's more carbon, longer tubes, it should be more flexy. So yeah, I think they've got the wording wrong personally. It's a flexy bike, yes, but it's also a snappy bike. Which doesn't make it floppy. So let's talk about what this bike does in the handling of the corners and the climbing and the strength. Are we following here so far? We've got a lot of, so we all says it's floppy. Cyclone box says it's flexy, but it's not floppy because it's snappy. Yep. I'm following. Okay. Yeah. I'm talking about stuff like that because, you know, I go into all of these categories in my reviews. And let's kick it off with handling. He kind of felt like the handling was, I guess, in precise,

41:06in certain areas. Right. Realistically, there's only one area that controls the feel of the handling. And that is the fork on the bike. You can trust me. The fork on the Seekerspear is pulling to stiff enough. If you have a stiff fork, that front wheel is going to feel precise enough, and it's going to feel controllable enough. So I'm going to have to disagree with cycling weekly on this one. Heavily disagree. And I've done a lot of miles on this bike, imprecises the wrong word. I've ridden some imprecise bikes in my past. And yeah, for me, this bike does not fall into that cash grid at all. There is, however, one area of this bike that I would say is more flexy than the rest of it. And that is the top tube here. Now, this is a remarkably skinny top tube. And in my opinion, I think where he's feeling the floppiness is probably just through that top tube section because the rest of the bike is fairly torsionally strong. It's strong enough that you can still enjoy sprinting and stuff on here. But I'm going to show you right now, like, kind of how flexy that top tube is.

42:06And he's a big lad. He can pick and put some torque for the baby. I think floppy about. So you kind of need to put it against the wall to do this. If I put it against the wall and you look at the back there, you can see how much movement there is in that top tube. So if you're just listening, he's pressing the saddle while the hand of us are locked against the wall and the whole whole bike sort of moving towards the wall. And that does flex quite a lot. Don't deny that. The top tube is very flexy. The rest of the bike, however, the bit that actually matters when you're moving, like, torsion through the down tube and through the chainstates and stuff like that. And this kind of triangle here, that's plenty stiff enough for my opinion. It only really moves naturally at the top here. I'm going to do my best to compare this to a more latally stiff bike, like the Tarnacus one I'm here. It's just like a gearbox. Geat tube. Visual difference of that top tube. And but other things to say, this is a smaller bike. The C is a 58. This is a 56 equivalent. So it should be stiffer, naturally. And also the saddle height is a little quite a lot lower. He keeps saying, I'm going to keep playing, but he keeps saying that.

43:08The bike brands scale the layup and the stiffness with the frame size. The idea that like a small frame is not flexing a big frame flexors. Like, that's not understand why you might look like that. But if they've done the layup properly, that's shouldn't be true. Am I one as well? So that should also play a role. But you can see if I try and flex that top tube there, you can see that while it's actually not moving very far. I mean, we've got probably one and a half, two centimeters. The C is speed definitely move further than that. Another area where they thought the bike might be flexing a lot is through the handlebars. Now I can prompt you this. Don't do this. I'm a big dude. I weigh 90 kilos. I can comfortably do over 16, 17, 19 of what's these handlebars? Oh, stiff as hell. They are not moving anywhere. In my opinion, what they've recognised as the flex is not the handlebars. It's the top tube. That's where I think they're feeling it. And if I'm giving them their juice, I agree. This top tube, it could be

44:10naturally stiffer, in my opinion. It definitely could be. But the rest of the bike in my eyes is actually okay. More than acceptable. Another thing they mentioned here was the sprinting on this bike. You know, it felt like it lacked energy and stuff like that. Again, I would have to disagree just because of the flex of the frame and the snap back of the frame. It makes the bike feel really exciting when you're sprinting and stuff like that. But as I did actually point out in my original review, again, it's going to depend how powerful you are. Now, not very often, are we sprinting over 30 and 14, 19 of what? But I will say that this bike does have that kind of like 13, 50, 14, 100 what's sealing where that snap back is no longer there. So once you're over 400 minutes bike, the sprinting isn't so exciting. There aren't so many people on the planet that can do that again. I'm quite a big guy, so it's easier for me to do it. But my goodness, I'm so really in there for the sprint.

45:11Then finally, the last thing that they mentioned was comfort. So there's a few sort of different, I guess, like, reviewing aspects. Let's start with the comfort. Do you think in your review was the seeker's being comfortable? Yes. Did you think it was stiff? It was, I currently have an issue with that word, Jesse. Don't overthink it. No, I am going to overthink it. I think it was, it was, it was, when you launch a sprint, it was balanced. Does it feel direct? Yes. Where did you notice any lack of directness in the front end? No. Okay. Right. So who do you agree more with? I'm slightly unboxed. I think he's nailed this. Now, I would not necessarily say just the top tube, but that whole triangle of the seeker spear had some flex to it. Now, we have a big issue in the bike industry at the moment with this being a bad thing. And I think cycling unboxed, I should know his name, but I don't.

46:14And has nailed it because we're over, we are over estimating the importance, I think, of this triangle being uber stiff to somehow create all our powers being transferred and we're just moving forward when really what matters. And he pointed this out brilliantly is the accuracy and the stiffness of the fork is what gives you the confidence, the stiffness, the tracking, the accuracy, the nimbleness, all that sort of stuff that you get from a road bike. And the seeker spear in my experience had that had a really nice stiff front end, which gave you that, gave you the accuracy, gave you the nimbleness, and then part of its comfort isn't just the little, what was it called, the wind eye? It was the bit of flex in the triangle. And I thought, I remember I went back and watched the review that I did. I commented on that.

47:15I sort of said that I thought that this bike had a really nice balance between the two of them. Lastly, wheelbase. No, you'll have some wheelbase. It's a gem of dream. It's a fun set. This is in line with the S5, which I think handles on rails. It's a nice short from me and a medium, 973. That's nice and short. And that gives you the tighter the wheels are together. I find you've got a little bit more snappy nimbleness. So what do you think's happened with the cycling news there? Yes. I mean, now they just come out and just go and look. The downside is the things flop. It's a flopper. Is that just where they may be coming off a very stiff board? Was he coming off the in color? And then, and then, no, this was an older review. And then, and then maybe like in hindsight, directly off that, it felt floppy or just sort of making stuff up.

48:16I mean, I don't even know. The problem is he's right. In the sense that there is this flex in there that, and I don't want to refer back to it a lot, because it's kind of irrelevant to us. But the strom has this. It has this flex in the triangle, which initially, I'm like, oh, I don't know about this. But once you get your kind of head around, that it's doing a lot of compliance for you, but you've still got some snap. You've still got these other elements. You're confusing me even more. It's not, I'm not talking about compliance. I'm asking, I'm asking about, I don't even care. I'm not asking about compliance. He says it's floppy. You said it's not floppy. It's actually quite... It's flexy. I think the problem is the word. There is flex in that triangle. Absolutely. All right. But cycling on box, you don't, so you don't agree with cycling on box. He says it's not flexy. He says you sprint and it's fine. Yes. The bottom bracket stiff.

49:16Yes. But he said there's movement in the triangle. He made that quite clear. But not sprinting. No, not sprinting. Not in the bottom bracket. He's like, okay, the top tubes randomly flexy. And that's the flex. Absolutely. You don't feel that when you sprint. No. I agree with that. You don't, you, I don't know why you're confused by this. It's very simple. The seeker spear is very, very nimble and stiff in the front end. It's got a stiff bottom bracket. I can't, the socket floppy. Like I said, I was descending and the whole thing was flopping around. Well, I completely disagree with that. Okay. Based on the stiffness of the front end, but what I'm trying to say is that they are giving him some, or whether it's credit, but I agree in the sense that there is flex in the triangle. You can feel that. Yes. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think the use of the term floppy is wrong. I think it should be flexy. Same idea. Is you put a different headline. He was kind of saying like he, I can go back to the cycle. He's very, he said, I put,

50:16you're descending, you put pressure through the bars and kind of counteracting your steering and the thing flexes. Absolutely disagree. Okay. There we go. We've established it. So that's what I'm trying to figure out. Because there might be some, in the details, things where it gets a bit murky, but like the core point of the review that cycling use put out was complete opposite of, well, not complete opposite, was it odds with what cycling on box set? Yes. So the idea that the sickest fear is just a floppy front end. He's just, no, not found. I don't agree with that. The only, so the only thing that I was kind of like listening to the cycling on box thing, I'm getting like, I don't know. I think it might be over explaining something is like this snapback idea that, okay, the bottom bracket flexes. But if you're doing less than 1400 watts, you get it back. It snaps back. I feel like that's like, it's flexy and it's not direct. But you get it back. I feel like is another level of, I guess, like sensation interpretation.

51:17What's your thoughts on that? A joint play that section again? Would you know what he was saying? It's actually, I mean, having never sprinted at 1400 watts, I can't tell you what that sensation is. Because it's like, I always feel like he's moved the goalpost because originally it was just you sprint. Does it feel like it's flexy or direct? That's what we used to, and now he's going, well, it's flexy, but then it's snappy because it's flex, it springs back. I'm going, wait. But if it's either not, it's either direct or not direct. Yeah. The idea that, okay, the carbon, yeah, the bottom bracket doesn't just shift out of place, and then you finish it right, and the bottom bracket's three mil offset, because it hasn't sprung back into position. But the point is like, if you're doing a sprint, you don't want it to spring back into position when you've already deloted the pedal stroke and you're changing your blade over. You want it to resist the force of your pedal stroke so it goes through the wheels and tires. Yeah. So that was the only bit where I think he's maybe overthinking this stiffness.

52:19It's like, do a sprint. Is it direct or not direct? Well, I think he was, he was emphasising the fact that the layup of the Seacuspere had clearly prioritised the stiffness around the bottom bracket and the stiffness of the front end, and the top tube that he was talking about flexy, he was saying was very, very thin, very, very flexy, essentially. So I assume that was him trying to explain that. I agree with that in the sense that that was clearly the priority, the stiffness priorities with the bottom bracket in the front end of the bike, which doesn't lead me to think it's a floppy. Can I get you to really listen to this bit? Because he's kind of introduced a whole other aspect of a bike review that's... You know, on this bike, you know, it felt like it lacked energy and stuff like that. Again, I would have to disagree just because of the flex of the frame and the snapback of the frame. It makes the bike feel really exciting when you're sprinting and stuff like that. But as I did actually point out on my original review,

53:20again, it's going to depend how powerful you are. Now, not very often, are we sprinting over 30 and 40 and 100 watts? But I will say that this bike does have that kind of like 13, 50, 14, 100 watts ceiling, where that snapback is no longer there. So once you're over 14, 100 watts on this bike, the sprinting isn't so exciting. So what does that mean, though? It snaps back up until 14, 100 watts, and then it doesn't snap back. Okay. My... This is beyond the stiff or not stiff. This is something... No, but I think... No, I think what he's saying is that there's a threshold... So when he... I think the snapback is... When he kicks the rear wheels back, it's going with me, right? That's the snapback he's feeling. I would argue. Okay? Another thing they mentioned here was the sprinting on this bike. You know, he said it felt like he had lacked energy and stuff like that.

54:21Again, I would have to disagree just because of the flex of the frame and the snapback of the frame. But he's not saying it feels stiff under 13, 100 watts. He's saying it feels like it flexes and snaps back. That's what I'm confused about. He's not saying... No, I think snapback... I think we're getting lost in the terminology. Let me play that sentence again. I would have to disagree just because of the flex of the frame and the snapback of the frame. The flex of the frame and the snapback. It makes it work for really exciting when you're sprinting and stuff like that. But... What do you mean snapback? A snapback means it's flexed and it's returning energy. I'm almost... I'm 80% sure he's saying it's not stiff. But under 13, 100 watts, it flexes and then snaps back. That's kind of what it's literally what he said. He said snapback. It didn't say it's stiff. I don't feel like that's a weird way to say, yeah, I can feel it flexes, but it's not a bad thing because it snaps back.

55:22I don't think that's what he means. Okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. I just don't. I think when he's saying snapback, I think he is referring to a subjective feeling of when he kicks the rear wheel is snapping with him. That's what I... Not snapping. Okay. It's just a very... Okay, if that's what he meant, it's an extremely weird way to word it. I disagree. I disagree. So to follow that through, what he's saying is that, you know, under he's 13 to 1400 watts, he's getting when he's kicking the rear wheel, banks snapbacking with me. It's snapbacking, not that... But then over that wattage, that's where you start to lose... You lose the... You're not getting full value for your shots. Okay. Which would... If that's what he said, if that's what he means, I'd go, that makes sense to me. I speak cycling and what. Okay. What do you call... If you're listening, what do you reckon in the comments? Do you agree with me that he's on some... You get your money? It's a cashback scheme. It's after payday.

56:24So I don't know. But anyway, both... I'm sort of... I'm very confused about the CKISB and it. What are we going to do about wheel? We got issues here. I mean, two weeks in a row to... Two full wheel. I feel like he's missing the mark a little bit. He's fast-becoming my favourite bike reviewer. It's good for a... It's great. Yeah, you don't know what you mean. He's getting me there. He's out there. I'm loving it. I do think there's a... This is a... It's an interesting little... Because he clearly has... At this point, this is not a... These aren't outliers now. He clearly, I think, has a very different... And gauge... Sensations, whatever you might call it. Calibration? Calibrate calibration. Zero offset. That's why we pay you the big bucks. He needs to be zero offset. He has clearly very different to me. Because that's... And to you. That's two out of two now. Yeah. But... Well, it was... I'm cycling on box. This is, you know, 4.5k views.

57:24He's done a whole video... Like, even with them... He's done a whole video kind of going... Hold on a minute. It's not a floppy. Snapping back. I thought it was, yeah, it was very interesting. So I clean you. That's why I got that drive. That's why the... Bike reviews are wasted time. Stick it in the jig. Get it in the jig. Has it been jig tested? Tool magazine hasn't tested it. Last minute, video ref comes in. Crank torsional bottom bracket stiffness test. The AR has looked at the... The issues here. Least stiff bottom bracket here is the Seekerspear IDC. And the jig. Less stiff than the Fairlight Strail steel bike. Xlab 89 Y1RS. And that's a fair amount too, because it's 68 and then the next actual carbon bike is 76. Then you've got the time act SL879. You know, I mean, this is...

58:26You really... It's a Y-Wheelster. 86 and that was 68 and you weren't... You didn't think it was... What did I say? I... You thought the stiffness was there. Fine. Well, maybe that's stiff enough for you. Maybe 68 so... That's just no snapback. Not getting it. Well, it is kind of... It is floppy. It is a bit floppy. Maybe Wills has got a good sprint. And he goes, yeah, no, this thing's not quite... Yeah. Ah, okay. I totally changed everything. I disagree with Chris Miller and Cycling Unboxed. I'm Team Will on this one. At least in the bottom bracket. You called it. Although you did... I think in that review, because you'd already ridden the track Modone Hadney, you did say the Modone was stiffer. You got the Modone, right? S5. Yeah, Fairplay Will. You can read him. All right, Pillar Performance Jesse, my protocol at the moment, actually putting a few training miles in is... So I am running Sugar Water bottles in there, but I'm also adding a scoop of the electrolyte high-jation from Pillar Performance,

59:28currently running it at the citrus at the moment. So that obviously gives you a little bit of different flavors across your Sugar Water, but it also gives you the sodium, the 400 milligrams, potassium, 190 milligrams, and your magnesium, 50 milligrams in there. And additional to that... I had slop stop issues last week, which we talked about. So I'm still a smashed-to-can of Coke, while I was there. Got my full legit sugar out of that. But also a couple of these satchels, then put those in my water bottles and able to continue on home running with that particular protocol. I back it. Now, if you want to do try it, go to PillarPerformance.com, use Code Nero at Checkup, 15% off if you're in the US. Go to the feed. Slash. Pillar, use Code Nero at 15% off. Who says you don't get new tech anymore? Hmm. DT Swiss partners with Wahoo to launch proprietary track-a-speed hub sensor. The Slick Hub-based speed sensor is compatible

1:00:29with DT Swiss Hub. There you go. So it's a speed sensor for your hub that you can't use on any bike. You have to have a DT Swiss Hub because that's what it fits. That's a great use of resources. Well done, Wahoo and DT Swiss. Got to love DT Swiss. They just... Yeah, they are right out there. R&D team. Yeah, I'd front of everybody at this point. It's, um... Yeah, I mean, I just, this popped up and I was like, sorry, what year am I in? We're running speed sensors. This... I found this completely confused. I just felt like I'd missed something. There would be people. I guarantee you, like... People seem to think this COVID baby term is a derogatory term. I don't think it is. Pony stretchy the imagination. It's just a generational term. Anyway, my point being, there would be people who have been now riding for four or five years, quite, quite well, who would have no idea what a speed sensor is. What, it comes from the... Head you. What do you mean a speed sensor? What do you mean a speed sensor? That tells me the speed.

1:01:29Yes, there was a day when you would put a little thing on your hub and it would spin around and it would tell you how fast you were going. And you would also sometimes get a skated sensor. You'd pop that on next to your chainstay and that would tell you how your cadence is doing. And those days are long, long gone. Yet DT Swiss, God love them. Are desperate to bring it back. So what's the point of it? They're saying, when the mountains swallow your signal, all tunnels block your connection, this sleek, rear hub optimized sidekick keeps counting. In partnership with Wahoo, we've built a speed sensor that translates every wheel rotation into pure accuracy even when satellites tap out. No drops, no excuses. So this is when you're doing stelvio reps and there's a few tunnels in the stelvio or the tormalay that you've still got. You can still go after a KOM, I think, is the rationale because we need a little bit more tech in there. I'm absolutely delighted to see this.

1:02:29So it's a solution for something that already existed because we've had speed sensors since I was a baby. It also is only compatible with certain DT Swiss hubs. Yes, beautiful. And it also doesn't give you cadence. No. Maybe all ones used to give you cadence. Yes. But the old speed sensors used to be speed and cadence sensors. Yes. This one doesn't even give you cadence. Now, you probably don't need cadence because it just comes from your power meter. But you've made it. Less compatible. You've lost the feature because there's no cadence. And it's released in 2026 when we all have GPS. Is that a problem? You lose signal in a tunnel. That's... I know people use speed sensors if they're doing arrow testing because the speed sensors way more accurate than GPS. Okay. Very niche, but yeah. But then this would also only be useful if you had a DT Swiss hubbed wheel. So that's kind of limited.

1:03:30I've really, really weird release. Can you speculate on what might be going on here? And it looks like an April Fool's joke. When I saw tech built into the hub, that's initially why I saw this. And I was like, oh, this could be exciting. What tech have we built into the hub? Potentially, we might have some, you know, some tire pressure information in there. Could we be getting, I don't know, some wind censoring happening in there? Fantastic. I'm on board for this. No. No, we've got a speed sensor in there. Yeah, just... I had to chat about it. It's just really, really bizarre. So before... Yeah, I want to ask you a question. You haven't seen this. This is just... I'm interested in your thoughts on this. Okay. So this week on Friday, there's an NFL game being played in Australia. Okay, this is the round one. Yeah, you got to stay with me here. You're interested in this. Promise. So there's two teams that have come out from the west coast of the US to play this game. San Francisco 49ers in the L.A. Rams. San Francisco came out a week ago.

1:04:33They've come out fully acclimatized, fully jet lag, etc., etc. Been out here training, getting to grips with everything. Full, full everything. The L.A. Rams are going to fly out 24 hours prior to the game on Friday. They will arrive in the evening of Thursday. Stay up, play the game, and fly straight home. So I say that again. That's... So they're flying out. So this is a huge undertaking. There's any failed teams are massive. Because then they've got the whole theory from what I understand is they don't want to... They want to be associated to this time zone. Because once they go back, I think they've got a eight day turn around or something for the next round. Because there's round one. Yeah. Okay. So their theory is

1:05:33paying no attention to being in Australia. Just act as if you're living in the US, ignore what's going on around you. Now what's going in their favor? Potentially is... Obviously, they'll be well taken care of. These NFL players, I think it's a... It's a... It's a... Chartered flight. Chartered flights. Okay. Also, the game is being played at 10.30am Australian time. Obviously, the US time zone. So it's a Thursday night game then for the US time zone. So the argument then is that they're literally going to fly out, stay up and play the game, fly out. Yeah. Like a fly in fly out. Whereas the 49ers have been here for a week, full acclamation, etc. etc. Then they'll fly home day after the game and play it. So my question to you then is, who do you think has got it right? And if you don't have an idea, give me a guess. If you're prioritizing the game here,

1:06:34the team that got here a week earlier has absolutely got it right. That's... People sometimes don't travel well on flights. That's way riskier. If you're here for a week, you're definitely going to be better. It's just what happens seven days later is a little bit riskier for the team that has been on Australian time for a week. Then they fly back and they got to do the whole process again. I just can't imagine stepping off a plane. Like it's a flying from the West Coast. So it's going to be 12, 14 hours. You got all that plane swelling. Yeah. I just think, I honestly, I think the Rams are going to get... There'll be a season, hope not, but there'll be season ending injuries somewhere in there. Hopefully not, Aaron Donnell or any of those... I would much rather come a week earlier. That's stuff that would be... I couldn't imagine stepping off a plane, getting warmed up and all the humidity, your nose is all dried up. Ugh. No. It's interesting though, because if the other chat around it is, it gets the Rams... Why are they playing a game in Australia?

1:07:35It's a straight. It's played a lot of money for it. The NFL, they play quite a few international games. So they play a lot of games in... Well, they play eight games in Europe. I think I'm right. One or two in South America. There's a lot of money. The only other thing... Well, the team that flies here for a week earlier... Could argue more chance of getting sick? I don't know where they're staying, but it's a week, entirely other country in some hotel... With all other viruses circulating, it's a complete opposite side of Earth in a different opposite season. I think it's been raining in Melbourne as well. The chance of picking up some kind of bug or something would be higher if you'd been here for a week. How often you travel somewhere, and then with the first week, you get a cold. But my pushback would be, wouldn't your immune system be so fucked as an L.A. Ram player doing those two flights playing the game in the middle that when you get back to the States, you're just...

1:08:35No, you're immune system, because if you're sleeping on the flight line, and you're in a nice business class, first class seat, and you've got all the stuff taken care of, sleeping pill or something. Immunity-wise, I think you're less likely to get sick if you did the fly-in-flay-out option. Yeah. I will say I've had to laugh at all the NFL, or the US commentary around the trip. It's just like, there's a time zone, it's jamming. They left before they leave, they're leaving, they're left today. So, chill, just calm the fuck down, guys. It's a 14-hour flight. It's not that big a deal. You probably have done it when you go to Europe. It's just the fact that they cross the date line. So, obviously, you lose a day when you go there, and then when you come back, you gain a day. It's like, literally, these guys' heads are exploding at this concept. It's quite funny to watch. Cool. I just got to do 10 minutes of NFL chat show. So good. Yes. What would you rather do? I think the 49ers have got it right, personally.

1:09:36There's a whole other cons... The 49ers have this other conspiracy theory, because all their players keep getting injured, there's this thing going on that they're playing... Their practice facility is right next to this radiation facility. And so, they're the actual team with the highest rate of injury across the entire NFL, and they're all pointing at the radiation facility across the road from their training facility. Maybe they'll get over here and get away from that facility and be healthier. All right. Thanks. In mind... Listening, everybody. See you next week. Don't be the day.