Rebel Mad Man Radio w/ Mike Gaddy, September 12, 2026 Hour 1

0:00We owe you dead gum, government you saw it, so it soars, you got your damn hands and never pocketed up my clothes, we owe you dead gum, dead gum, dead gum, government, uh huh. Don't you know, don't you love me sometime, uh huh. We owe you dead gum, government you better pay attention, you sent up there like a fool's convention, where you got gum, gum, dead gum, government, uh huh. Don't you know, don't you love me sometime, uh huh. We owe you so much selling no good sons of a sheep, and fire starters. How to tell you no good brim in the toy bone frame, and nail it till your stomach won't fall.

1:02Nailed you to a club, well, welcome everyone. Thank you Roger Miller. Oh boy, he nailed it, you know, and uh rich and I was talking about that before, remember some of his famous verses, you can't roll her skate and a buffalo herd. And you can't go swimming in a baseball pool. I mean, the guy was just brilliant, but uh welcome folks to the rebel madman program here on Republic Broadcasting Network on the 12th day of September and year of 20 and 26. And boy, do we have bite a lineup for you today and we will start off being the gentleman that we are with a wonderful lady, a host at RBN also who has joined us today and we started to quite some time back with what we call the ladies in the tram. So I'm talking about the lady and the tramps, uh some time back and it's just absolutely a pleasure to have Mrs. Cue with us. So Karen, how are things going for you today lady?

2:13Oh very well. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me for another episode of lady and the tramps you guys know I look forward to being with you so much. I'm revolutionary work commitments are pretty much wound up. I hope to be joining you much more often. So thanks for having me today. Oh, it's always a pleasure, Karen. Always a pleasure. You lady of vast knowledge and a wonderful personality and I can't say that for rich up there in middle Tennessee because he's not a lady. And so I got it. I was going with you up there, buddy. I did five. We partly cloudy today. We get intermittent showers. Just kind of a day where we can't do anything with state and sides. So well, here we are. Well, we've got that the retired commercial airline pilot with us today and what a great time to have him with us the day after 9 11 and that would be none other than DW.

3:14So Darrell, how's things with you today, sir? Oh, it's wonderful. I'm just so anticipating and looking forward to this group in today's conversation. A nether 9 11 autopsy. Oh boy. Oh, yeah. And then folks, all of you folks were listening, hide your children because we have with us today the thought criminal from RB and none other than Stephen Douglas Whitener. So, why do you do anybody? How do you might glad to be here and look a forward to commit some thought crime with all the y'all too and hide your children. Okay. Oh, I'm sorry. I had to throw it in there. Look at forward. Yeah, that's fine. I'm always glad to commit thought crime with y'all yet. Please. It's stormy here in the state South Carolina to just kind of big poor down, but yeah, another autopsy of this is like I talked to 25 years in a day.

4:19That's what it's been since this. Yeah, today. So here we are. Well, actually yesterday the 11th, but anyway, guys, here's a question and then we'll let me just queue lead off with this. But here's my question for the group. And for those listening has there ever been an event in history that is that the facts presented by the government have ever been so absolutely ridiculous. I mean, it's not even questionable to a person whose IQ is higher than the room temperature. I don't see how anyone could have ever believed any of this. I mean, there are so many different facets. And I'm sure we're going to take those all apart, but you know, we are so fortunate today because we have with us Mrs. Q and she was a resident of New York City and was actually in New York City on September the 11th, 2001.

5:22So Karen, would you kind of give us fill in the background with that day for you? Sure. This is like the horrible 9-11 yearly remembrance, right? Yes. I'm just going to preface this by saying I'm not really going to talk about what I think happened or who did it? We can get into that. I'm just going to tell everybody straight up what my experience was that day, just so that you know from a first hand account. And then we can get into all of the other stuff and what my immediate reactions were. I worked for most of my early adult life in the World Trade Center or around the World Trade Center. So I went through there every day. I ate lunch in the plaza where that big fountain was. I shopped in the shops downstairs. Went to meetings or worked in there, but it was the center of my, you know, adult life for my entire Wall Street career. So I spent as much time there as I spent at my home.

6:25So that day I was at work as usual nearby or at least I was going to work and I was running late that morning. And at that time, Mr. Cue was working at JetBlue Airways, but he was working overnight. And so he came home and I was watching this fire burning in the time, one of the towers on the TV. And I said to him, did you see this, you know, like some Yahoo in a small plane hit the World Trade Center and he looks at me goes, that's not a small plane. He says, look at the size of the whole look at all that that's not a small plane. I don't think you should go to work. And I said, no, you don't understand typical Wall Street attitude. I had you don't understand I have to go to work. I got a million things that have to get done today. I'll see you later. So I left got on the subway by the time I had got downtown to my office. The second plane hit the World Trade Center. And now I was pretty much stuck there. So the next thing I remember is being in our offices, which looked, you know, we, I don't know if you guys have listening are familiar with how these big office towers are built.

7:31They're all built similar to the World Trade Center and that the middle of the building is elevator banks and the offices run around the outer part of the building so that everybody has windows. So we were walking around through all our different windows, looking out to see what was going on and watching on a giant screen TV in our conference room and comparing what we were seeing. And then the next thing we knew we saw people clinging to the outer edge of the building. And of course, everybody got out there binoculars and telescopes to see if it was anybody they knew. So how surreal is that? So then people started calling over there and nobody could get through because people have family over there, colleagues, friends, you know, it's a Wall Street was a very small business at the time. It was a lot of people, but people all interacted with each other at some point or another. So there was that going on. And then there was like on the TV, we saw that one building fell. But from our office, it still looks like they were both there. So brilliantly, I called up Mr. Q at home and asked him to one of the World Trade Center buildings fall.

8:41And he says to me, you are right there. Didn't you see it? And I said, well, you know, there's sort of this optical illusion that happens down here where sometimes the two buildings look like one. So we can't tell from our angle if it really fell or not. Did it really fall? There's just a rumor and he says, it fell. So now things were starting to get really frantic in my office. People were starting to panic. People were running out of the office to run over there to look for friends and family members. And then as we were standing there watching, I remember saying to one of my friends, people we know are dead. And that that being my single thought was that people we know are dead. And then the second one fell in front of us. And that was it. Guys I knew who worked trading desks who had nerves of steel like you wouldn't believe totally emotionless business all day started to scream and horror. That's how bad it was. And then I remember one of my one of my colleagues looking at me and saying, you know, that looked just like those demolitions they're doing in Atlantic City because that was around the same time I don't know if you remember they were demolishing the old casinos.

9:53And I'm sorry loss Vegas remember in Atlantic City, but they had just demolished a really famous one in Las Vegas right about that time like that summer I think. And he mentioned that he said that looks just like when they demolished that casino in Las Vegas. And we're like, yeah, it did look like that. And then the next thing we were talking about was how come the top of the like World Trade Center to was crooked, but it went down straight. So we were just having all these bizarre conversations and then decided look, we have to get out of here. And our manager our boss came in and said, look, you guys all have to get out of here, pack up your stuff and go down the stairway because we don't know what's going to happen over here. And so I remember getting my stuff walking down from like the 26th floor out onto the street where it was just absolute mayhem and then taking the long walk home. And just before I left because the landlines were still working, I called Mr. Q and I said, I'm leaving now I have to walk home.

10:54I'll see you later. So imagine Mr. Q sitting home, those hours in between not knowing where I was, what was going to happen, what was happening, nothing. And all he could do was sit in the living room and wait. Well, the walk home was unbelievable, totally silent. Nobody was talking. And all you could see was the smoke emanating from the whole blowing toward Brooklyn Long Island. I walked over the 59th Street bridge. It was dead silent. The smoke was blowing. Nobody was talking cars were going over the bridge picking people up if they wanted to ride. But I just continued walking all the way home. People were covered with soot. You know, people were crying people like had that. And I was like, 1000 yards stair, you know that PTSD stair. It was just totally remarkable. And I eventually got home to Mr. Q who started telling me all about the other stuff, the Pentagon, the plane in Pennsylvania.

12:02And all we did after that was just try to find friends and colleagues. And in some cases it took weeks to find people to see if they were alive or not. And in my neighborhood at that time there were a lot of firemen. So there were a lot of dead neighbors. It was really tragic. And the shock of it was just like so stunning that you just didn't know what to make of it at all. And the only thing I remember and it stayed with me was my colleague saying, gee, that looks just like those casinos they tore down in Las Vegas. And then I remember being at home at night with Mr. Q and the building across the street fell. And we're looking at each other like, why did that fall? You know, he said to me, was the whole lower Manhattan vibrating or something? And I said, I don't know, I don't feel any vibration in my building like a huge bang we heard, but like our building was wasn't vibrating or anything. And then it took like weeks to kind of settle down. And of course the official narrative came out right away that it was this guy living in a cave in Afghanistan, which was kind of weird.

13:14But I would say that I never fully bought the story because what the buildings looks like also I should add this also because some of the firefighters I knew, including a captain who he's retired now in my building a commander of a firehouse. He said to me one day when we were talking about it, he said Karen, those guys heard the explosions. He says they know the difference between a collapse of a floor and an explosion. And they heard explosions and then nobody ever said a word about it anymore kind of like those eyewitnesses to TWA flight 800 not to change the subject. Who saw that flare heading up to the plane and suddenly they all disappeared too. So it's very hard to find any of those interviews with the fireman on the scene who claimed they heard explosions. And if you can find them, you'll see people will say, oh, they just have PTSD in their confused on the timeline because a couple of the guys said they heard explosions before the planes hit the buildings.

14:20So it's all a little fuzzy, but I think for me, since I have never been able to figure out exactly what happened that day. And I have my suspicions of who was really responsible. I felt like for me, it became my job to track all that happened to America as a result of that day. So that's what I've been trying to focus on. So that's just my little story of being present for the whole thing. Oh, and I will add that all of my colleagues and close friends were safe and made it out of their life. Well, that's great news Karen. Thanks so very much for what is a on the scenes report in so many ways, even though now we're 25 years later. And folks were also extremely lucky in the fact that we have with us, DW who is a retired commercial airline pilot. And he had the distinction of being the first commercial airline pilot who flew into New York City after 9, 11.

15:29So DW, give us your story of that time, please sir. Oh, yeah. Well, Karen, I just briefly, you know, I don't believe I've ever heard you share that story with us before and I so appreciate it because, you know, everything I saw was a televised spectacle. Everybody saw a spectacle. That's true. That's true. And a lot of the reality of the horror. And the reality of the horror was left out of the spectacle. Interestingly, and we'll get to that later. Yeah, you what what you experienced was a real actual visceral real time existential experience and and we all got the production version. But yeah, my morning started out pretty pretty normal. I was in my my little bungalow house near the Lake Michigan, five miles from the walkie air port in my polyester captains uniform sitting across breakfast table from my friend from Chicago who was in his polyester captains uniform.

16:43I was scheduled to fly flight number two. Had around 10 o'clock leave around 10 o'clock that morning to go to New York, La Guadilla. I was at that time. We were operating DC knives MD 80s. And I was going to take a DC nine in there. I've been there many times, you know, and so we're sitting there having breakfast, you know, my friend, he was he was going to fly into Washington DC, Reagan National. And so we're sitting there eating breakfast to, you know, talking and his wife from Chicago calls and she goes, you're watching TV. You know, this happened a lot. I think that day was a lot of people and we go, oh, no. And she goes, turn it on. So we turned it on and you know, it was on every channel. We turned it on about two minutes before the so called second plane comes arcing is arcing in and a bank and a high speed. That was the visual anyway.

17:55And impacts the tower. I guess, you know, we at the moment you assume that's all live. And we were both standing there looking at the TV and we just kind of turned and looked at each other and I just backed up sat down on the sofa and looked at him and said, well, I guess we're not going to work today. And we just both sat down and for the next half hour just sort of stirred at the TV and we did get a phone call from dispatch saying, well, you know, all flights are grounded, you know, don't show up for work. And so that's, I didn't know any more less than anybody else did in that first day, really. Other people knew more about what was going on that I did. All I could see was that I remember making the only comment I really made that day was.

19:03I had the world just changed. I knew my world had just changed. And so we we put in our civilian clothes and took the rest of the off. I went over to my my DVDs and pulled out my favorite rock modern off and plugged it into stereo and cranked it up as loud as it go. Listen to that. I thought that was appropriate music for what I just seen. And so about, oh, I guess it was a day and a half later that was Wednesday and Thursday. Yeah, well, yeah, Thursday, Thursday afternoon, I get a phone call from dispatch and they say, look, all the wall flights are grounded. We have received a special dispensation waiver from the FAA to operate a empty positioning flight to Columbus, Ohio tonight and be Thursday night.

20:19And you're to take here to take the empty aircraft with your co pilot and through flight attendants and spend the night tonight in Columbus and you're going to get up earlier early Friday morning and we've been given clearance. One time, you know, just special waiver on all restrictions for you to fly in from Columbus on a southern route into LaGuardia to pick up. I think it was like 80 passengers. And of course, you know, that's just my job to fly the airplane, right? So I said, OK. And so we did we showed up. We got ready. The parking lots empty terminals empty. It's like out of a Stephen King movie. The Langleyers everything's missing.

21:22You know, security really wasn't even present really. I didn't see anybody strangely enough. And we go into dispatch, which is usually very busy and it's there's only two people in there. And the flight attendants show up. There's usually probably about 50 people milling around the ready room and getting things different crews and stuff. And there's nobody there. It was it was the flight attendants were visibly nervous. And they were actually most of them were fairly new to the job. My co pilot that day was a foreign national really young guy. He was from Finland. His name. You will always get a kick out of his name. His name was Tron. He had a need accident. It was his first week on the job. OK, want a way to start a job, right? And he did a really good job in a super good job. And we flew to Columbus at night spent tonight and then we flew into New York, Gloria.

22:44So on that arrival into New York, Gloria. From the southern route, you come in over the water past. What they call the statute of liberty and your configuring the airplane, you're coming down. I think, you know, I have to kind of hard to remember all that. I think it was about 2500 feet. And you slow to like 210 knots and you're getting Eric playing configured and stuff. And but it was a beautiful day, really clear smooth. And it just so happens that as you come in on that arrival route, had a certain speed and altitude you. You can look straight down. You're coming over the East River and you can look straight down into that complex. And so what I did is. I was flying. And so when we got leveled off and everything was stable, I transitioned. We switched from flying to non-flying pilot.

23:47I gave the controls to try and he was flying there playing basically straight and level. And I pulled out my camera that I always carry with me. You never know when you need it. And as we flew by the World Trade Center, I got, oh, probably a half a dozen photographs looking straight down into that smoke and hole. Which still showed this Friday morning. This still showed glowing. I don't know. It's three or four or five areas were visibly glowing. Two and a half days later. Right. And so, you know, we transitioned the controls back. Do their arrival, finish landing. And the newer code warrior runway 31. And pick up 80 people. And we depart. And it's very uneventful. Although it's very, it's very strange. It was, I don't know. I probably liken it guys to one of the most surreal experiences I've ever had in any of my flying.

25:00And I was able to fly by the fact of the absence that there was absolutely no whether we heard no other radio communication from any other aircraft or anyone for that matter in that whole two days flying. That's that's something else to me. And you know, I think we're just so fortunate to have the two views that we have here with the yours of being the first pilot to bring the first aircraft into New York after 9, 11 and, you know, Mrs. Q being on the ground at ground zero. So now I kind of want to open it up. Rich, do you have any questions for Mrs. Q or for BW on what they've just told us? Yeah, Darrell. Did you know who was on the passenger list? Or did you get a chance to look at the passengers? No, I, I, I, that's a really good question, Rich. And later I thought about it a little bit. But in the moment when you're, when you're doing this, does kind of work, you know, you've always got a stack of paper about an inch and a half second front of you.

26:16Yeah. And there was a load, there was a passenger manifest on there, but honestly, I didn't think to keep a copy of it. It was only later I go, well, who was in New York, a glory that was so important that we had to get a special waiver to fly to all places in Milwaukee. Okay, I mean, what's up with that, you know, so it's a good question. I just don't have a good answer. Yeah, that was going to be my next question. Where'd you fly them to? So you flew to Milwaukee? Yeah. Wow. We did, we did, it was pretty typical for us to fly anybody, if any notoriety or VIPs and politicians always chose our airline because we had all seats in the aircraft. Or two by two and leather and we, we literally had a champagne breakfast in China service.

27:22So it was, it was pretty high in. It wasn't, it wasn't Southwest. Okay. Why do you want about you? You have questions for either of the two? You said you didn't hear any other planes at all. I was wondering if there were any other, no other aircraft at all had been flying for since the tax and this is like Friday, right, two and a half days. That must have been just really amazing. I can imagine so much to make a movie out of that. Like you said, it seemed like you were walking out of Stephen King movie. I mean, that's not, that's really happened. And it just, it blows my mind when I go back to that time. I wasn't there. I was like just catching it secondhand. You see it happen like like Mr. Cudid. I guess, he was, but just both of y'all have a more real experience of it. And I do, I just caught with the show they put on the news, you know, and it, it was a shock to me.

28:32Everything kind of came to, you know, screeching halt. I didn't understand what was going on. It was kind of, I didn't know, no, it happened to someone called and said that they wouldn't be going to New York. They'd been just a friend of mine. I had not turned the TV on. And it is after the second plane hit. So then I called up from there and, you know, just took me a while to realize that the forehead had transpired. But you know, as you mentioned how it affected America's what you'd focused on since then it, it sure has changed the world we live in. I don't think about what happened back then and how now things are so different. I just can't imagine how what it was like being there. I wondered how far away from the building you were carrying that from the trade center. You mentioned looking at your wind. I mean, and you were right there. How far away were you from the trade center? What happened and did you get off of Manhattan to go home or not? You said you crossed the bridge, right?

29:37And what about Manhattan? Did you do? No, well, you know, everything in lower Manhattan is really close because it's only half a mile wide. So, you know, everything is really close together. So not so not very far at all. And, you know, I wanted to I did I did have to walk home with thousands and thousands of other people, right? And so there were some people were covered with the suit because they were outside when everything fell and, you know, it was very surreal. But to add to what DW observed when he went into LaGuardia and it being closed and empty. So think of what New York City was like with no planes flying, no trains running. Very little, I think buses were not running pretty much access to Manhattan was off for a while. Remember exactly how long. So all of the ambient noise we were used to was missing except occasionally you would hear fighter jets go overhead, which of course was very unsettling, right?

30:40So I had to go into my office building on Thursday. So it happened Tuesday had to go to my office building on Thursday because a whole lot of my crew was on the west coast at Microsoft when this happened and they couldn't get back. So I had to go into the building to take care of some technical things that had to be done. And the only way I could get in was one of the other guys went with me. We drove through and we got a special clearance from our company to go through and we had to go through the midtown tunnel and directly to our building and then into the parking garage under the building. So we couldn't be outside at all walking around or anything and we went in we took the elevator up. We did what we had to do and then we left that way as well. So very quickly they cut off all access to get anywhere near the site obviously because it was dangerous. And of course, in spite of the EPA commissioner secretary, whatever she was, Christine Todd Whitman, former governor of New Jersey, the air was not safe, right? She's told everybody the air was safe.

31:47But we weren't down there long enough to really breathe anything, but you couldn't get down there. I mean, it was just cut off. I think south of Canal Street was closed. Couldn't go down there at all. So what you had was people roaming all around. These are some of the things you didn't get to see when you watch the curated version on TV or the the a sigh out version. I call it. And we see all the people wandering around looking for their family members. People just wandering the streets of Manhattan. I lived in Queens looking for their family members wandering around by every hospital and putting up pictures, missing missing persons pictures at all the hospitals. Nobody was in the hospitals because everybody was dead. Putting them up along the fence. They put up a fence along, you know, around Canal Street. So you couldn't get south putting them up on all these fences and walls that were put up. People just wandering looking for their family members like zombies.

32:49So you didn't really see that kind of suffering that was going on. They also were very careful. You know, they really have exploited the pictures of people falling to a really disgusting degree. I mean, think of what it would be like to be sitting there on the ledge of that building 90 stories up or whatever and trying to decide, do I want to die by falling or do I want to go in and burn to death. And so they really have exploited that. Imagine that's your last memory of your family member. What they didn't talk about though is what happened when they hit the ground and how traumatized people were who saw that. You know, there were a lot of people standing down on the street who saw bodies hit. There was a big scaffolding around the building that was construction going on. Who heard the bodies hit those or who saw them hit cars and saw them hit the ground. So there. I thought it was interesting the way it was so carefully curated for TV. To leave out the go or but to show a lot of suggestive pictures of horror over and over and over and over. Now the people I know who lived through it never watched any of the TV coverage because you know, you just really don't need to see that after you've lived through something like that.

34:07And so the people I know who never watched any of it recovered fairly well over time. But the people who watch the coverage day after day, week after week, year after year, anniversary after anniversary have really been traumatized by it. Much more so. I mean, they feel like they were there. Much more so than anybody I know who was actually there. One of my friends was in one of the buildings. His boss told them all to get out. They ran down the elevator shaft and then he said they were foolishly standing there on Liberty Street looking up when the building began to fall on top of them. And you know, he said he ran the fastest he ever run in his life and hid in a below ground level shop and then that whole building was covered with debris. He had to climb up to the second floor to climb out onto the debris field to get out. And then he walked home to Brooklyn. So a lot of the really horrific stuff. Realistic stuff was not ever broadcast. But the stuff that was and shown over and over was just enough to make your your imagination traumatize you.

35:21If you guys understand what I'm trying to say. Oh, yes. Because you guys were watching it. So that's the version you guys saw. And you guys are all pretty analytical. So I wonder what you guys thought about what you were seeing. Well, well, if I may, there's one question I'd like to ask the W before we get to that Karen. So remind me where we were with our own personal experiences. But the W at what point in time? Did you learn that the FBI had chartered a plane and had gathered up all of the bin Laden family and got them out of the country? When did you first learn about that? I think that was probably in the next week is when I think I first was became aware that. But, but that been lot family was spirited out in that in that very next day, weren't they?

36:23Yes. Yeah. That's about when I found out as well on Wall Street, you know, what the rumors were flying on Wall Street about all of it. But that's about when I found out about it too. OK, well, you ask about our experiences. I'm going to give you mine and let me tell the folks give them a little heads up here. I'll be leaving at the end of the first hour. But I've got such a great crew here to take over. I'm my wife and I are going to watch our daughter. She is has the lead in a local play and we want to make sure that we're there for her. But that at that time, I was a combination tour guide and sometimes bus driver or usually most of the time it was either the French or the Germans who came to America. And you know, I would give them historical tours or you know, and sometimes they had asked me to get my CDL so that if something happened, we could drive the tour bus as well.

37:28So our daughter, the one that we're going to watch tonight was quite young back then. And so Susanna and I were sitting in the living room and we were never much for television. And our daughter was evidently walked in a small television in her bedroom. And so she comes running into the room. She says, turn on the TV. Turn on the TV. You're not going to believe this. You're not going to believe this. So we turned on the TV and we begin to see some of the things, but one of the things I'll never forget guys is a Fox news reporter interviewing a lady on the ground. You know, she had seen the planes hit. He was interviewing her and he asked her, what did you see? And she said, I saw the planes. The both of both of the planes. She said, I saw them hit the World Trade Center, especially the second one. She said, but let me tell you, it was not a commercial airliner.

38:29It had no windows at all. And I'll never forget that wish I would have recorded it because within. You know, just a few hours that was completely removed from any part of Fox news. And I found out later that the reporter had been terminated from his job. And that always struck me as, you know, here's clear evidence. There's a lady on the ground that says that the plane that hit the hit the not the Pentagon, but hit the second World Trade Center was not a commercial airliner. It had no windows. And again, you know, like it disappeared down the memory hole, anything else that would be in competition with the government's story. So Rich, you want to tell Mrs. Q about your reaction that day? Sure. I was working in my shop. I think we're cutting some mirrors and stuff getting ready for an installation with a guy that was helping me then.

39:37And I must have. I think I was probably listening to the G Gordon Litty. And as we used to do back then and back back in the day. And he came all with some news about the airplane crash in New York. So we had a little small TV there. So we scarfed it up, put it on the cutting table. And we're watching it. And the first thought, you know, reports, we didn't know if it was a small plane or or what it was. I do recall thinking at the time. You know, wasn't there a B 24 that ran into the Empire State Building back during World War II? And there was. Yeah, and you know, it caused some damage. Well, no, it was. That's what I was thinking. And I said, you'd cause some damage. So we'll see what happens. And then of course, we were watching. I think when they had the video feed of seeing the other.

40:37The other plane crash in there. And, and of course, we stayed kind of glued to it and watched it the whole day and watched it. Watch the day and think come down. And so we were all kind of mystified. But then I saw our call. I think right after that was a hood baroque or some some is one of the Israelis got up. Was it being interviewed and said, Oh, we know who did it. It was Osama bin Laden. I mean, this wasn't 24 hours after the after the event. So I mean, I thought that was kind of suspicious. Yeah. And I wondered, you know, there's so many things going with through my head that day. I was wondering where, you know, if they do these hijackers were hijacking for going on, where was the, where was the Air Force? Don't they have fighter jets that are on patrol and would nor add and all that kind of stuff. And as bits and pieces of information came out, you know, we found out that it was everything we shut down that day.

41:39And then like you know, you said about the FBI charging the plane found out about that maybe a couple of days or three days was in the next week. I know about these people being spirited out of the country. I don't know what the heck's going on with that. And as I recall, what an airline traffic shut down for about a week or longer. Yeah, I mean, everything was shut for anybody got, you know, got to go anywhere. Yes, I said, you know, and Richard, what did you think of the, what did you think of the imagery that was being broadcast? It was a mystery of me because I was going, I was looking at going how in the hell could that cause those buildings to fall? You see the part where the top of one building was was falling in on one side. Yeah. And my friends said that they were looking up and they thought that thing was going to slide off and fall.

42:40And he said, then all of a sudden it's straightened up and came straight down. Yeah, it was always the weirdest thing. Yeah, it was always amazing to me about, you know, how it just came kind of came down in his footprint that didn't spread out. As much as you would think I had been involved with a, an implosion of a high rise in Nashville. It was a huge building, but it was. I can't remember 20 plus stories, maybe or 30 stories. There was being taken down to put up a residential condo project and we were, we were hired to ride herd on, you know, to be there when case any windows broke out from the neighboring businesses. We said you did and fix them, you know, as soon as possible. So I had, you know, some mayor with implosions. And then that's sort of what it looked like to me, but, you know, as the days went by, you know, you see all these additional video. Videos of stuff streaming out the sides of the building and then and plumes of smoke and then you hear the stories about.

43:46You know, from the firefighters hearing saying that they heard additional. You know, explosions inside and. And you know, it was just, it was a spectacle to be sure. And then of course there's building seven. You know, and I remember seeing that clip where the, where the BBC, where the BBC reporter at was saying, well, yeah, they decided to pull building seven and there it is standing behind her. Yeah, it was another 30 minutes before they took that down. And of course, you know, there was Carl Cameron on Fox News talking about the dancing Israelis. And, and all these Israeli nationals that were picking up in the, you know, I remember what a big box truck that was on one of the bridges, because at that time, they were fearing that maybe. You know, whoever did this was going to knock out the bridges in New York. And, and all that, it was just a lot of the information flow that subsequently disappeared. You know, he had to really search for it to.

44:48To find it. And I just, I found it really odd to take out. They had a perpetrator in mind, you know, it's all at once. You know, it didn't take. Almost like they knew it was going to happen. And they had some by rate of pin it on. And then of course, there's a mystery that thing about a chance feel, you know, no debris field. And, and the Pentagon, you know, the how the Pentagon was hit any course you find out later than it hit the area where they were conducting the audit on the. It didn't, didn't it rumsfeld say like the day before there was some. Yeah, yeah, he sure did. And I think that sent you a candy grilled him in Congress. A few days before that. But yeah, he had a press conference the very day before saying, well, we can't account for all the money. And that we're missing. And I'm sure he said, I don't know what he said. If you know, we're sure we're going to find, you know, the source of it. But of course, they never did. But it's just amazing stuff. And then I, you know, started listening to people like DW of course didn't hear DW back then. But, you know, pilots who were talking about the physical impossibility of having, you know, 19 alleged novice.

46:06Kai Jackers, it could pilot those those airplanes and what were really complicated maneuvers. And, and hit the number one to hit the buildings. And then to pull off the feet of what they did with in the Pentagon, it's just like, wow, something's not adding up here. You know, and one of their passports, this Mr. Kear is a spender part of the story that one of the passports just happened to be sitting on top of the debris. And then the story's coming out about how Colleen Rally, who was, who was on Judge Napst program, just they actually tried to alert her superiors to the, you know, fact of these people that were. You know, potential hijackers that were taking small, you know, small plane training and just a bits and pieces. It's like, either it was a colossal failure of the competence on the part of everybody, which I know is not the case because I've, you know, I've been in and out of the military and I've been around places.

47:20And there's some really smart people that work there. I mean, believe it or not, we make fun of them and all, but there's some guys that really know what they're what they're doing. And the guy that was in charge of just been hard to be in charge of the security, the world trade centers. I mean, first day on the job, but he happened to be in the building. What it gets, you know, when it gets demolished and lost his life, I forgot what the guy was doing once down, but just a whole lot of stuff that, you know, it came out in bits and pieces and it's, it's kind of like all weaving into a tapestry. You know, I can't really sort out when I learned certain bits and others, but I do remember the effect it had. I was in the state guard at the time, once you just kind of a quasi, you know, it's a civic organization. It's not really a military organization, but I remember a lot of the guys in there, they were all fired up. You know, we want to, we want to participate because part of the mission of the state guard was like emergency management.

48:21Doodies, you know, and help the first responders and, you know, and people that, you know, maintain order and and arrange supplies, you know, materials, all that kind of stuff. So we were all, we're all getting charged up for that. And so we saw an increase in, and the, the, the list was because of that in and invariably, you know, they were old guys. X most up, mixed military, but they're all old over the hill. I mean, there, you know, I mean, I was 50, that the, that, or 45 at the time. And I was probably one of the youngest guys in there. So that gives you an idea, but what, you know, how serious an organization we were, but I mean, that really didn't, it pumped that up. Then he started seeing all these stickers bumper stickers United, we stand and the flags coming out. Oh, that's right. And all that kind of stuff from, you know, Walmart was distributing a lot of that, that's schlock. And just you know, and of course, on the day after 9, 11, Glenn Beck starts, starts his famous 9, 12 organization. You know, and there were chapters of that, spring it up.

49:32You know, here in Nashville, elsewhere, you know, all these people that, you know, it's the Muslims and, you know, and, and, and all that kind of stuff. So I mean, it really had, it had a tremendous effect on people peripherally in that matter. And of course, Mike, as you said, or DW, I mean, with the, you know, with the, I won't say weaponizing, but with the super charging of the TSA. And, and all that, I mean, it changed the way we've, we've lived ever since then. And of course, they had the Patriot Act sitting there right, you know, right ready to be, to be put into effect and, you know, went from a weapon hunt security guards to turn into another federal bureaucracy called the TSA, you know, thousands standing around. What that, what that really means. And so I mean, it really made flying a pain in the butt. Because when I was a young man, I mean, I'm talking, you know, early 20s when I had to travel working for Vanderbilt, I could remember going, driving up to the gate almost at the old terminal at Nashville and just walking through the door, practically on the runway to board the board airplane.

50:44You know, those days are gone forever, unless you charge or something, your own plane going somewhere. But since then, flying is just got to be one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've ever gone through. Since, and I really hate, you know, I've been overseas a couple times or three times, three or four times since then. And it's just every time I swear I'll never fly again because it's just an awful experience. Well, and that it is really incredible guys as we look back at this thing and Karen, I do remember, you know, seeing film that night because I was tasked to travel to Albuquerque from Tucson. And we were supposed to pick up a group in Albuquerque for to take on a tour of the West. And of course, I got there on the night of 9-11. And that all fell through. Naturally, we got all the calls, everything's off.

51:45I just bring the bus on back tomorrow. And, but I remember that night, you know, the TV watching the TV and all the stuff that was on TV. And they did show. And it was most graphic. It just hurt me when they I could see in some of the video and most of it disappeared later. But of the people actually jumping off. And before that was gut wrenching if nothing else. And it was just absolutely incredible. And, you know, we're about to end up the first hour. And I'll be jumping off. And you guys can handle it very well. I know that. And, uh, DW, I hope that at some time in the next two hours that you will share with the people, the story you have told us on several occasions about the flight simulators and, uh, that you guys in Atlanta. And the thing that you and a couple of other pilots did, I hope that you'll share that with the group today.

52:48Oh, surely. Well, yes, sir. Well, we'll have to see if we can get Mr. Q to come up and join us for that. Oh, I love it. Oh, boy. Right. Yeah. Now, that would be something else. If you could have him come on as well. And, you know, guys, I tell you what, this is just to have this group together and to be able to discuss this subject. And to look at so many things, but I remember that night I was an albacurkey and I had a very close friend, uh, who was a colonel in the Air Force. And I knew, you know, we had been involved in intelligence operations back when I was still with the no such. And I gave her a call to make sure she was OK. And I left a message was she called me back very shortly thereafter. And I said, you know, what happened today and she said, Mike, I can assure you it was not a plane that hit the Pentagon.

53:49And she said we were outside almost within minutes after the original impact. She said we were outside and she said, the first thing they wanted us to do was to walk, you know, about three feet apart so that we could look for evidence. Look for anything that was on the ground. And she said we were actually out there before the top part of the Pentagon caved in where the whole was. She said at that time there was nothing there, but a hole. And she said, I noticed, first of all, there was no damage from the wings. What would have been the wings or the tail section. She said they would have at least made an imprint on the outside. And she said, I knew something was wrong because the Pentagon is the most has the most surveillance of any building in this country. And she said we had cameras every 20 feet. And she said, I knew that any evidence that they needed to prove this would be there in those cameras, but none ever came out.

54:49And, but she said she's the one who brought up to me. She said, I know it wasn't a aircraft that hit there. And I said, and ironically her name was Karen as well. And so I said, Karen, why would you give me some things to go on here. And she said, well, Mike, I know that you know that the most the strongest part of an aircraft and DW can probably back to sub force. The very strongest part of the aircraft is the landing gear. She said now I've been to aircraft crashes. And I've seen the debris. She said the tires may be blown off the tires may be burned off, but she said because of the strength that's needed when that aircraft catches down with all of the weight and the momentum behind it. She said that is the strongest part of the aircraft. And she said there was nothing there. There were nothing at all. She said, there did find one small piece of cowling.

55:53And she said when I looked at that cowling, she said the first thing that came to my mind was missile. And she said, none of the rest of it made any sense. And she said, and then later when she found out we communicated for some time on this. And later when she found out that the that hit the accounting department. And she said, well, you know, strange, strange, strange, the secretary of defense, second death says that they've lost 2.3 trillion. They can't account for and the next day the accounting is taken out with a missile. She said, yeah, all right. But anyway, she was on scene and she said, no way this happened. And the thing I'll never forget because I tied it together later was that night as I was in the hotel room in Albuquerque waiting to just head back to Tucson the next day. The George W Bush comes on course they talked about they flew him around and around and around and around for a few hours. I'm sure they were briefing him as to what he could say and what he couldn't say.

56:59And so that occurred, but then he made his speech and the last thing he said was, well, my fellow Americans, we now have a new Pearl Harbor. Well, it was sometime later that I found out that the project for the new American century. I'd made that very appeal or the very statement that we will never get America to back us in all of our endeavors without the another Earl Harbor. And so then that's the last thing Bush says on the night of 9 11. And like I said, guys, it's almost the end of the first hour. You guys can take it, you know, as we move into the last two hours, you know, Karen and why do both have vast experience at this. So I really appreciate you guys coming on and I'll certainly be listening to the archives later on. Have a wonderful time, Mike.

57:59Well, I hope to always with the family. That's always a good part. Yeah, enjoy yourself. Well, I hope to, I hope to. Yeah. And so Karen, you kind of want to take us to the top of the hour. I was hoping when we come back, I would like to talk to you guys about the way the imagery was curated and the narrative placed on the imagery to create the greatest like trauma based programming before COVID in American history and and the way any any deep information about what happened slowly disappeared and was just replaced by imagery and the same message over and over again. Osama bin Laden Muslims, Osama bin Laden Muslims again and again victims were victims were victims. You guys know how the trauma based programming works. And I didn't really see any of that until many years later when I actually watched a couple of these documentaries, I stayed away from anything about it for many years.

59:07And then when I started watching the documentaries years later, I was watching a lake. This isn't, this isn't right. This isn't what happened. This is crazy. And then it even took me more time to understand what was happening, but you guys saw that happen in real time. And I'm wondering like what you guys were thinking when you were seeing those very carefully edited images with a very careful narrative about what you were supposed to think. Like if any of you guys thought something was off. Well, I mean, that's a good point Karen.