Record Skid in MSG: Pacers Drop 14th Straight + “Stay or Go” with Alex Golden

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What is a Pacer's Nation? You are an assume-of-the-may sir's post-up

Rupter you by the Rupzabaskin ball. Brad and Ryan, a part of the Believe Sports Network

presented by Fandall, Pacer's fans. Let's get into it.

All right Pacer's fans, we are back for yet another episode of the Pacer's Post-Up.

This is a fun one today. It is another crossover episode with our good friend Alex Golden

over at Setting the Pace. Ryan and I joined him to talk all things Pacer's nicks.

It was a 14th straight loss that eclipses the franchise record losing streak that was set

earlier this year. So not a record book that you want to be in, but it is par for the course

for this 25-26 Pacer season. We join Alex. We talk about all that. We get into some

player stuff, what we saw in the game, how Zubats is integrating in, and then we play a fun game.

Alex kind of moderates a should he stay or should he go segment where we talk about what this

roster could look like going in an X season. So it is always fun when we get to have a conversation

with Alex and our friends over at Setting the Pace. Let us know what you think. If you're not

following the show at Pacer's Post-Up, as always, brought to you by FanDuel Go Pacers.

We suck again. The Indian Pacers lose their 14th game in a row. That is the longest losing streak

in franchise history, falling 136, 110 to the New York Knicks in my omia. This was a rough game to

watch and the Pacers look like a team ready to get back home for another game tomorrow, but not

really for a game, but probably just a relaxed. But here to join me to talk about this game. It's

my friends Brad and Ryan Knight from the Pacers Post-Up. So Brad, we're used to your long

intros on your show where you set so many things up here for Ryan to pick up, but I really

didn't give you much. So you take the mic from me and just lead us where you want to go.

Listen, I'm watching this game. Obviously it's Pacer's Knicks. If you're going to win a game to stop

a franchise long losing streak, it would be against the Knicks. We've had a little cushion here

in the tank rankings. I don't want to get greedy there. I'm fine where we're at. If we lose the rest

of the games and we get the worst record in the league, that is okay. But if you were going to

throw in a win tonight was the night to do it. And if I had kind of told you coming into this game,

hey, the Pacers are going to shoot 63 percent in the first half. They're still going to be down

eight. You'd kind of go, okay, what's going on? And it was turnovers. It was offensive rebound,

the possession battle. We give up 19 offensive boards on the night. The Knicks shoot 100 shots.

It was 15 more than the Pacers had. They shot it well. I mean, 54 percent overall had 18

threes. They had it going. I'll actually kind of give the Knicks a little bit of credit. And

this is totally intentionally to throw shade at Jalen Brunson. The ball was moving. They were

getting some good shots. They were knocking down shots. It was kind of like a little bit of what I

think Mike Brown wants the offense to look like in New York and not necessarily the pounding

dribble Brunson all the time. So it was interesting to get a look at them.

Sans Brunson in the lineup. Although, you know, it is what it is. But listen, it's one of those games

where again, we're we're well beyond trying to win anything meaningful this year. Yes,

you always love to go into MSG and win one. We did that before the All-Star break when we were a

little bit more healthy. And I'll remember that fondly this year. But it's a night that's a

little bit forgettable. I do think that there were some good things that we saw. You know,

we're continuing to get more looks at what zoo could look like in this system, both offensively

defensively. I think there's some things we still have to figure out, but there's some things I

really liked, you know, on both ends of the floor. So, you know, Alex, it's it's it's listen,

it's a it's a game in March where we're on a record losing streak. There's not a ton to take

from it, but it was a fun one to watch. I don't know, Ryan, if you've got anything to add from

your angle, but that's kind of how I saw it. Yeah, it felt like the Pacers got up for the previous

Nick's game a little bit more than they got up for this Nick's game. We talked about it a little

bit coming off that back to back in the first Nick's game last Friday where the every, you know,

most of the starters that were healthy went out there kind of gave it their all see how that match

up could go. And tonight it was kind of like, can we see what happens between the zoo bots and

Carly and then he towns match up kneesmith through a little bit, but not up much else was really

going on. And so that's where I'd kind of like to start because if we're going to make the

contention run we want next year, you're going to see likely zoo and towns go at each other

in a playoff round or least you hope to because that's always going to be a fun series. And I

thought there was some good and some bad on the good side for zoo bots. I actually thought one on

one in open space. He did better than I anticipated on him. He kind of swallowed up towns. He

and we're used to towns being able to push miles turner and kind of get to that mid range. And that

wasn't there for them. Now with that said in space, Carl Anthony towns had a couple threes on him

still and was able to make a move. But overall, I thought he made his life difficult for the most part

and his size was definitely a presence and strength. So I thought that was good. And I continue

just to be excited about zoo on the offensive end. He clearly didn't think towns could handle him

in the post. He was getting to that push shot. The, you know, if you've been listening to the

broadcasts, Chris and Chris are all over this that he's got such great touch around the rim.

And then the screen setting, probably every Pacers, you know, podcast or anybody talking is going

to talk about that. But he's setting up guys for wide open threes, huge lanes, guys getting

space. And we saw a little bit of that tonight, a few just with Nisa Smith coming around pick. So

I thought it was encouraging to see how zoo looked or against towns. We'll see that as it builds out.

But what did you see in that matchup Alex? Yeah, I think to me, zoo still looks a little slow

guarding in space. And that's something that I think a lot of people were nervous about. But

how much of it is he's just not in great conditioning because it's only four games back since the

ankle injury missing six weeks. I think that this play a huge factor into it. I also think like his

minutes are not probably what his normal rotation will look like either, which probably throws a

little bit of a cog into what's what he's trying to do. So I honestly think that I was envisioning

this as a playoff series. And I was like, I just feel like zoo can take it to another level

than what we've seen so far. And honestly, probably just being a little bit more cautious about how

he's defending and approaching everything because he doesn't want to overextend himself over exert

himself. I think that all plays a factor. But you could tell I mean, he did a pretty good job on

the glass regardless of getting out rebounded as a team pretty poorly. But there was quite a few

possessions. I felt like he really to keep the ball live and was able to create extra possessions.

Like the Pacers had eight shots start the fourth quarter to just New York's three. And it was all

because of different possessions. He generated whether it was tipping the ball out or Jordan Clarkson

fouling him and kind of pushing him out of the way, trying to like keep him off the glass. And

that is the kind of gravity that he provides as a big man. So it's great to see. I mean, I think

that's probably the most or really the only entertaining thing to kind of watch. At this point in the

season, just kind of seeing how he fits in with this group. It's also really good to me or

Brad to see Aaron Neesmith kind of shake off some of this rust that we had been seeing from three.

But I think he's 11 of 16 from three the last two games. So just really some elite level shooting

especially against your two biggest rivals Milwaukee in New York. You love to see that as well. But

and one of the games like these when the game feels like so far out of reach after they go on this

huge run to end the second quarter, you're trying to just find things to look forward to. And

I know you guys both are very big. Jeris Walker fans believe in him as a player that can fit this

team. But I'm starting to get a little bit worried about Jeris Walker. I kind of feel like

that ceiling is coming down more and more as we see him play. And it's just back-to-back

possessions where he gets picked pocketed by Josh Hart to start the game. Just an excusable

loose handle with the basketball, which we've seen too often with him where he's just very

laxed a daisicle. And honestly, defensively, I'm a little bit concerned about who they're putting him

on and how he's handling those possessions. I think when Buckner even called him out, he scored a

basket and Jordan Clarkson got right down the court. He said, well, there goes his man right there.

So it's it's just one of those things where I'm wanting more from Jeris that I'm not getting.

I see the upside. I see the flashes, but it's not all coming together yet for me. So Brad,

what are your thoughts on Jeris? Ox, I agree. 100%. Ryan and I have been bullish. I think the

tools that he possesses, the versatility that we have seen flashes of albeit very inconsistently.

Like a guy that has come into this league, he's really established himself as a shot maker,

particularly from outside. That was not something we thought was going to be there. And it's kept him,

you know, I would say viable, right? Like the outside shot is what kept him on the floor and

stretches last season. It was what really helped him get back kind of grounded this year after

extremely up and downplay to start the season. And then we've seen him piece some stuff together.

Like you obviously understand entry passes, the vision, like he has done things that not a lot of

guys on this roster can do. I think back to, you know, a couple of weeks ago, few of those behind

the back passes, like all of those things are the reason that I think we've probably given him a

little more grace, certainly some, some other players that maybe used to wear a Pacer's uniform.

I won't say his name, but it's like a Jackson. Exactly right. So, you know, it's just one of those

things where, listen, if you're just paying attention to box scores, you look at it and go 16,

five and five tonight. Okay, solid from Jaros, but five turnovers. You mentioned just the blatant,

you know, loose dribble where heart picks him twice. And then the matchup thing is the one that I

want to pick up where we're kind of you left off. This is now several games in a row where he

has had the opportunity to get run on a guy like Giannis or OG. And we saw it back at Gameridge

Fieldhouse where when he did have OG, OG was going right by him straight line drives. And then

tonight, it's almost like we're hiding him. And Slasin is drawing, you know, the primary defensive

assignment and credit to Slasin. I mean, this guy comes from the Noblesville building. And if we

want to touch on him later, we can, but two blocks, three steals, like he looks kind of like what

you're almost hoping that Jaros would do defensively that longer, you know, kind of wing defender. Jaros,

to me, I think I said this to Ryan on a couple episodes ago. It's almost like he plays defense

with his hands first and his feet second. And I just think he gets stuck too often looking for

the pick, looking for, you know, that home run play and not just sitting in a stance and moving

his feet and trusting that you've got a huff or a zoo behind you or help or whatever it is.

If he does not figure out the defensive end of the floor and we're healthy next year, I know

Furfie's probably nine or 12 months. He's going to lose minutes again to Shepherd. And Shepherd's

a guy that we'll never talk about. But if you watched him tonight, it was like everything solid.

Nothing flashy, but just comes in and Rick will go to that in meaningful games.

Jaros is getting more of that run now to try and work out some of the kinks, I think, but

it's the cause for concern meter as you put it is growing day by day.

Yeah, and I don't have a ton to add. I posed on our State of the Union podcast on Sunday.

The question of if he can't clean up the turnovers and the defense, does he have, I would say he's

got a roster spot next year, but does he have a rotation spot? And I think with the shot and

playmaking the flashes are there. But the Josh Hart turnovers, you guys were talking about a

stuff that happened to me and like sixth grade. I mean, it's just clear pit pocket top of the key.

Had some ugly passes, although I'll give him a little credit. His entry passes to zoo have

been really good. And some of the players could probably use some of those tips. But right now,

that defensive end, if he can't play with the wing and size that he is slated for,

that's the position defensively we need. And losing that to Slauson who has been, you know,

fairly impressive, taking the honest role, taking the OG role. It's just not going to work long

term with Jaris. If that's all we need because shooting and scoring and playmaking are great assets.

But we have a lot of that on our team and we are healthy. And we need guys who can go out there,

play hard, get rebounds, do the hustle plays that Shepherd does tonight. And sure walkers got

a little bit more in the bag than maybe Shepherd has, but he's got to clean up the defensive end,

particularly if he wants to stay on the floor. Yeah, a couple of things there that I want to just

piggyback off of. It's just like, I mean, this with no disrespect to Jalen Slauson who is clearly

coming out here and working hard, playing hard. But if you're getting these assignments and not

Jaris Walker, that is not a good sign for Jaris Walker. And to me, it's just like, I like Jaris

Walker. Like I want to believe in him. I remember what we saw probably in the beginning of January.

It was like he just played with such a level of force that I feel like has been missing once again

now. And it's you're trying to kind of figure it out. And I'm sure that the season just being so

long and so full of losses is probably weighing on him. But if you pay close attention to almost

every time he's on the court, when Rick Carlisle calls the time out, he is saying something to Jaris.

And it's a matter of will Jaris actually listen and get coached or does he just kind of walk by and

not paying any attention to him? Because there's been a couple of times I've seen at home games

where coach will try to say something to him and Jaris just kind of go straight to the bench,

tries to not make eye contact because I think he's just tired of hearing it. He knows what he needs

to do, but he's just not following through. And sometimes a coach when they're not barking at you,

but when they're just constantly harping and riding on you to do certain things and you're not

doing them, it probably does get annoying, especially when you're losing as much as you're losing. But

you know, you talk about wanting to come in and play hard and rebound the basketball. Well,

there was a former pacer that did that. And I think, you know, not saying that it wasn't the right

trade or anything like that, but I do think that maybe those of us that were okay with giving up

math or maybe even pushing forward a little bit, maybe didn't really appreciate some of the stuff

that he brought to the table as terms of a competitor in terms of a rebound or a score like,

yes, there were flaws in this fit. I'm not going to deny that, but I do think that maybe sometimes

we don't give him the amount of respect, maybe that he deserved for what he brought to this team

on a night-to-night basis. Listen, I can take that. I won't make Ryan do that because Ryan's the

hater extraordinaire for Matherin, but you're right. I mean, listen, it's why we saw Furfie in the

starting lineup. And I don't want to, I'm not trying to deflect from Ben because you're 100%

right. Like Ben, particularly for that guard position, we saw him have double-digit rebound games.

He's had a couple since he's been in a clippers uniform. And when he was engaged in the game,

I think for, I think for me, the one caveat I would put on what you just said is there were some

nights where I felt like, for whatever reason, Ben just got lost in the shuffle. But then when he

was on, you're, you know, it was that physical dog like, I'm going to go get it offensive end,

defensive end. And I'll say he tried on the defensive end. I still think he just from a awareness

perspective. But the points that you're trying to make set aside Ben are 100% true about Jarris.

And it's why Shepard's been on the floor. It's why Furfie took that starting spot before the ACL.

And it's stuff that doesn't show up in the stat sheet. To Ryan's point, when we are healthy,

we have guys all over the floor that can get buckets that keep the ball moving, that can dribble

penetrate. Like we have, I mean, you just look at our guard room, set aside Cam, you know, too new.

But TJ Drew, Halliburton, when they're healthy, all guys that can facilitate, that can penetrate,

that can create plays for others. We talked about Aaron Neesmith. He's really getting, you know,

it's four or six from deep tonight. You said 11 or 16 over the last couple of games. He was our

player of the week on our Sunday state just because he's gotten the offensive rhythm going like

the things that Jarris does are great. And he can fit in and spread a little bit of the stats

around. Like he's a guy that can get you six, seven rebounds, four, five assists and a dozen

points. But it's the other end of the floor that we absolutely have to have him be solid because

when we start Aaron, Drew and Tyrese, we're undersized. Like Aaron Neesmith, I know he's tough,

he's physical, et cetera. But he's six, five. Like maybe six, six on a good day. We need a legit

six, seven, six, eight, six, nine wing defender that can come in. And frankly, it looked like

that might have been firfy when he was playing earlier this year. And as you said, it's certainly

a reflection of something that Slauson is getting those minutes. Ryan, I don't know if you have

anything to add to that. But yeah, it's the motor, right? Like how do you, this is your time,

Jarris. These are the minutes. It's the motor that we shouldn't have to be questioning.

Yeah, it's the motor. And I also wonder at times, what is the issue when you watch Jarris because

he does seem to be a guy that gives up all these easy baskets at times. It's not just like a

defensive lapse or miscommunications. He's just getting beat. And I think you made a good point,

Brad, if he's playing with his hands, he's always cheating for that poke out. And that poke out

looks great when he gets it and they can play in transition. But it's just trying to see like

we've talked a lot with Jarris on the post up around this offseason. I think there's

some clear things he's got to work on. You've got to go into lab and work on the handle.

The turnovers, I think there are games outside the clear pick pockets, but there are games where

he's forcing some things that I'm hoping in a role next year. He's not going to have to do that.

So maybe that naturally cleans up a bit, but also we need to clean that up himself. But really,

the defensive end is I always watch and you mentioned early in the pod out of like right now,

what are you watching in pace or games like clearly you're probably in on zoo. And when I'm not

watching zoo, I'm usually watching Walker on the defensive end right now. And it just feels like

sometimes he's a step behind it. I don't know if it's the foot speed because there are games where

I feel like he can stay in front of them. And then other games he I don't know if it's something

he can't get off his feet. He's obviously got massive legs, but he's pretty springy. So it's

it's trying to see can he correct to this in the offseason? Or is this just going to be a flaw

moving forward? I will just say this if you're a if you're a fan of the game theory podcast with

Sam Vassini and our friend Bryce Simon, they brought up Jeris Walker on their latest podcasts

around the one hour one minute mark. And they dove into everything. Sam was just talking about like

likes a lot of this stuff, hates a lot of this stuff. And they talk a lot about just who he's

guarding defensively like what's going on and how bad it's been. And I think it's kind of

interesting getting a different perspective from not just pace or fans, but people that are

covering the NBA at large. And for them to kind of notice some of the same things we're noticing

about Jeris good and bad. It's okay. It's eye opening. So it's it's one of those things where

it's like, of course, he's not a perfect player. But you were probably hoping that he could be more.

But right now if you're looking at this roster heading into next season, not including any draft

picks, anything like that, you're probably looking at Jeris is kind of your eighth man in the rotation.

But that could be like Brad mentioned. It could be a Johnny Furfee. It could be a Ben Shepherd.

If he continues to struggle like this and you know, I just Rick Carlisle will preach defense first.

And if that is not click, then it's going to be an uphill battle for Jeris Walker to really

get his footing here. And I don't know if it'll be the same exact situation as a Ben Mathering.

If he gets traded somewhere else, he can thrive somewhere else. But I do think that he is so young that

if the Pacers were to potentially give up on him early, he could still flourish somewhere else.

But a lot of times we do see players like this. They last in the league for a while. And I think

one of the comparisons they made on the Game Theory podcast was a Deandre Hunter Atlanta Hawks.

How he kind of like had moments there like flashes and then really get just don't love what you're

seeing enough consistently wise. So maybe there's a Sacramento Kings team out there that is all in

on Deandre Hunter. But we'll have to see about that. But anything else you guys want to touch on

on this game or do you want to move into our next segment? This is the table, the one with the view.

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I'm ready to move on. We're going to change things up here a little bit.

Usually, we all three give our answers when we're together on podcasts and doing this thing, but

we don't want to spend all of our time spending the next hour or so doing this. I'm going to play

a mediator between the two brothers and let them give me their opinions. We're going to go through

the roster. Basically, the historic song, should I stay or should I go, is inspired this segment.

We're going to do a Willy Steyr, Willy Goh in terms of

Pacer players on the roster currently. We'll just work our way from the bottom up to the top,

and we'll look at some two-way guys here. I don't know if you guys did the two-way or not,

but we'll start with the two-way. We'll start with the most recent two-way,

Jalen's Lawson. Should he stay or should he go? I'll go with you first, Ryan.

This is a fun one because it's going to be really interesting how the roster plays out and where

these two-way fits. But if you're going to make the argument for Lawson, it's that if you have a guy

on your two-way who you can reasonably roll out and put on a Yanis or a Tatum or Apollo,

these guys in the East that we're going to go to, and Rick has done that. I'll be at a necessity

at times, but he's done it and Lawson has had some really nice hustle plays and small minutes and

look good for the Glee. The Omer going to argument against this not a great shooter. What do you

love? What is his thing that he brings? He's a jack of all trades, but he doesn't really have

one unique skill that really sets him apart from other players. I might go a little across the

grain here and say, keep, actually. He's been impressive enough for me that if we're talking two

ways, depending on how the draft situations work and all that, if I can have guys on my two-way

who I can bring in and can at least hang defensively, and Lawson does enough on the hustle

ends. We've seen him get to blocks on Yanis and Carl Anthony Towns now, some offensive rebounds.

Sure, the shot inconsistent. He had a couple tonight, but we know from the Glee numbers that's

not his strength. I would be interested in giving him another run. He's been somebody one in the

building. We've seen him a little bit, and I just like that security blanket on a team that lacks

wing defenders. Brad. Listen, I mean, we had Ray J. Dennis on this team for how many years is a

two-way? There's no way you can't say Lawson isn't intriguing after just watching him for two

games. He's a guy that's had multiple triple doubles for the boom. We were in the building for

one a couple of weeks ago. He has legit NBA length and athleticism. I think that that's clear from

just watching him the last couple of games. The shot's not there. I get it. I think he was two

of five or two of six tonight from deep. I don't think that that's something that's going to stick

around. But if it does, then it's a different conversation. But when you're talking about the guys

that we have in the stable, so to speak, in terms of, you know, other guys that we're going to talk

about on this list, guards in Cam and Q and Thompson and Peter, all these other guys that are on

partial guarantees or non-guarantees, two ways. They don't really fit the mold that Lawson has.

And so for that reason alone, he's shown me enough in the last couple of games that I would say,

he's absolutely worthy of a two way slot. Okay. So we have a stay for Jalen's Lawson from both

of the brothers. So let's keep it moving here to Talon Peter Ryan. Talon, what you thinking?

The argument for Talon's kind of the opposite of Lawson is that the shot is so intriguing.

He has this unique thing, quick release, you know, movement shooter that couldn't add a different

aspect to this offense. We don't really have a guy who's that's their only role. Not to say Peter

can't do other things, but he's got to get the shot a little bit more consistent. But I've seen

enough flashes from him that I'm interested in. We're not going to go stay here every time,

but Peter's another stay for me. He's, he battles hard enough defensively for a rookie to show

signs. He's shown a little bit of playmaking. Even if you remember early in the season, he was

actually slotted in game one is the backup point guard. Due to some amount of necessity, actually

mostly all out of necessity with camp TJ tie down the list. We're injured for opening night,

but he was. So they trusted him coming out of camp to be a backup guard on a team that had

playoff hopes at the time, at least for the interim. And so he's shown enough for me on that that

if he can turn into this knockdown shooter who can hold his own, that's an exciting player to have.

And as long as we know that that ceiling can be hit, I'm keeping him on the roster for next year.

Brad? Movement shooting is a skill. It's a coveted skill. We don't really have a ton of what

I would call movement shooters on this team. I know that, you know, obviously Aaron Nysmith is one

and I have to throw a little bit of delusion in here because I don't know if you guys caught this

on Twitter, Clyde, in the broadcast on the Nick's broadcast, talking to Mike Brin said,

we should have done that to him last year, talking about when Aaron got blasted by Cat and hit his

face and went out of the game. So a little delusion from the Nick's broadcast on that. But no,

listen, I'm trying to be quick here. Taylor and Peter, he has to stay. There is a skill for movement

shooting. The guy green lights himself. I love the fact that he just knows all he's in there to do

is shoot threes and obviously somebody that shot it really well, you know, in college and he's had

some, I would say explosive games in the G league from the outside, you know, shot perspective. So

I would say I think it's worth another year taking a look. I would agree with that last part.

I think the has to stay is something I would maybe disagree with on Taylor and Peter and I'm not

giving my thoughts on all these players, but yeah, Taylor, Taylor, to me out of the, out of the three

two ways is probably the least intriguing of all of them. I've just, I'm a little bit more sold on

some of the stuff we've seen from Ethan Thompson and I think the size does matter a little bit more

on that too. But curious your guys thoughts on Ethan Thompson as well. We'll switch it up and go with

Brad first this time. So I had go, I had go on, on Ethan and really I think it's just I go back

to what I said in terms of the number of guards that you have on this roster. I just feel like

the Peter aspect, if I'm comparing those two, they're both guards. I think Thompson's been more

efficient. He's more of a multi level score like he gives you a little bit of that mid-range game.

He can get to the basket. We've seen him be effective. I think he he's more trending in the wrong

direction. I think he was better earlier in the season when he first got in the lineup. He's been

okay. I maybe I'm just a sucker for an outside shooter, but that's why I say go on Thompson and stay

on on Peter. Okay. Yeah. So my reason for Peter a little bit and I'm as well a go. So we're going

against the ox and like we said, the brothers usually don't disagree too much, although we try to

a little bit more here and there. I'm a go only more looking at the skill sets of the rest of

the roster is I don't know how many two guards I'm willing to have on this team that can't really

be a one also because we've got a couple of guys who float in that position between a brown, a

Peter, a shepherd. These guys who, of sure they can handle the ball that don't really have the

playmaking ability that comes along with it. And so I just lean that I don't know if he's got

enough ceiling and runway. And again, I know we're talking two way guys and he's been impressive

and some handfuls of starts. I know what he's done. And the G league's been been really impressive too,

but I'm just looking in those spots to see if I can have a little bit different unique skill set.

I will say I don't I don't think I want Taylor Peter right on the point. Not even if he can.

I think I'd rather have I don't know anybody else. I'm just saying like there's a reason why he

didn't really run the point a lot. And they went out and got like Mac McClung and different

players like that because they could have played Taylor Peter at the point or at that spot if they

felt they trusted him. But still I was early into his career. But I think you're sleeping on

Ethan Thompson's ball handling. I mean, who gave it to Zubat's first assist on a lob?

There we go. That's Ethan. And who also got Zubat's first assist. That was Ethan Thompson on

the rage jumper. So forever etched in pace of history. So I'm going to go get you guys here.

But I'm not giving my pins on any more because this is going to get too long. We'll move on next

to someone I'm really interested to hear you guys have to think about this one.

Cam Jones stay or go. We'll go back to Brad.

This was tough. This is probably one of the toughest ones that we had. Honestly, I have them as a go.

And and I just there has not been enough. And I know that it's it's tough to say that because of

the injury to start the year. And we didn't really start to get him integrated in a meaningful

way, you know, until really 2026, the last couple of months here. And so that being said,

I think that if you're going to make a push for a championship or a deep postseason run next year.

And you're talking about guys, Halibut, Nuffin Achilles, TJ's not going to be younger.

Andrew Nemhart's really going to be your starting to guard. And then the, you know,

Quentin Jackson's not really, I mean, he's a combo guard, not really a point guard. I would love

to see that roster spot go to a veteran, true point guard, somebody that can run in an offense

at a high level. And I just haven't seen enough from Cam this year to make me say stay.

Yeah. All right. Oh, Brad, you did your best to almost convincing me to switch my answer

because I had stay here. And I think every point you made is right. Where if Cam Jones is going to

be the pseudo third point guard in this roster, I know obviously Nemhart can step in. That is scary

for a team that if one of them goes down, if he's getting real minutes, I'm definitely not confident

in that. My answer for stay really just goes a little bit more along with the organization.

I just don't think they're willing to move past a player who they drafted early in the second round

and see potential in. So I just think he'll be on, but he would worry me as the third point guard.

Well, this brings me to my next player because I think there's a good change you can make the case.

One of these guys has to stay. One of these guys has to go. And that's Quentin Jackson.

So Ryan, we'll go back to you and keeping him or is he getting out of here?

But this was the one that I had the most trouble with because I'm a big Q guy. I think the whole

team is the whole fan bases. He's obviously kind of stuck with us for a long time and just got

that standard deal. And I will keep him. I still like some of the edge with him. We talked a lot

on the post up. If this is a guy who has to come in in a big playoff moment, I at least in the back

in my head don't think he's scared. I think he's got the chip on the shoulder to play.

I want a little bit more from the playmaking side, but I think he's good in practice for these guys.

And if has to be in in a big moment, I've got some faith in him.

Brad? Yeah, listen, it's a stay for me. I love the edge. I love the competitive spirit.

This is a guy that's going to fight on both ends of the floor. Yeah, does it leave a little

bit to be desired from a playmaking perspective when you're talking about a guy that's a

he's a point guard size, right? But he plays more like a two. But I love the athleticism.

I love the hustle defensively. I love the chippiness. I think that that's good to have on a team

where you're not going to have James Johnson presumably. Now, who knows? Maybe they give him a slot.

I don't see that. He's off in the big three doing his thing. I just I enjoy Q on this roster.

I think he fits into the chemistry of this team. And he's a guy that we've seen can go out and get

you 15 points. He can be a bit of a spark plug when he gets it going. Yeah, there's some head

scratching plays that come along with the you're talking about, you know, a 14th 15th man on a roster.

Hopefully not going to be a huge factor in the rotation to Ryan's point. If there's a big moment

that he does have to step on the floor, I'd rather I'd rather have him than a guy like Cam.

Okay, well, let's move forward now to the front court and look at one of the centers that has

recently been added to this roster has had some flashes of some good play, but also some flashes

of some horrific defense. That's right. We're talking about a Micah Potter. We'll go back to Brad

here. Brad are you keeping him or is he hitting the road, Jack? I love your lead in it. So good

there. The defensive video that you sent me the other day of him. Just you videoing him during

the game is incredible. And you swayed me. I've got him as a go. And listen, here's here's what

I'll say and I may be tipping my cap a little bit to another answer on this list, but I think you've

got a couple of backup centers that have similar skill sets, stretch biggs. Neither of them can really

defend in space. One of them has a least a little bit of a shot blocking element. And I would love

to see the third center slot go to somebody that gives you a little bit more defensive versatility.

And the hard part is you're kind of looking for a healthy version of an Isaiah Jackson, maybe a

little bit bigger, a little more size, but somebody that can move their feet and give you some

versatility there. And it's just not been Potter. I know he's, frankly, he was way off everybody's

radar when we brought him in the building, at least mine. I don't want to speak for you guys,

but not somebody I was paying a lot of attention to. And he's had some nice moments. I mean,

he's had a career high with us scored, you know, 20 plus a couple times, got it going from outside,

but he's got to go. And we got to find somebody that bolsters the back end of that center rotation

a little bit more in my opinion. Yeah, he's, I'm no different. He's got to go looking at the center

room. Just I think we need to add somebody who's got a little bit more athleticism play in space,

especially if we're going with the Huff Zubat center room. I just think having another

Potter in there. Yes, he shot the ball well. How much do you trust that defensively? He's given

you almost nothing on a night in night out basis. So I'm going to have a go with him. And with

all that said, he was a great story for this season. I just don't see a future with him.

Yeah, and I will just say this for people that are like, oh, he's, he's shown a lot of things.

And yeah, like yeah, if you look at a box score, he has shown some stuff with his shooting.

Like he's a good three point shooter. And at times, he's been a better rebounder than Jay Huff.

But I just kind of feel like after you traded Isaiah Jackson and, you know, Tony Bradley was not

a part of this group. But the idea of James Weisman, like you wanted some athleticism with your

center front court. And right now, you don't really have any. I mean, Jay Huff is not really an

athlete to me. Zubat's is more of a skill player that has some athleticism versus like this athletic

freak. So I just think, you know, you know, Brad was saying, I don't know if I want my

partner as my back as my as my third string center. I'm not sure I want Jay Huff as my backup

center. I'll just be honest with you. So I think maybe trying to find a better, better backup center

could be the biggest acquisition the team makes outside of the draft this off season. But we'll

we'll keep him moving here with the center rotation and go back to to Brad here. The man in the

middle legend, Jay Huff, you know, people are trying to mimic his dunks is in game backwards

dunks. But, you know, I think a couple of dunks like that under Rick Carlisles belt and messing a

couple of them, he might hold back on doing those two of them. We haven't seen. I don't, it's

last time we saw a Jay Huff reverse. I mean, I dubbed him the MJ of the reverse dunk and we

haven't seen it in a month and a half. But I do have him stay. And Alex, I think your point is

well taken that listen, this is not like a bona fide backup big. This is not a Mitchell Robinson,

right? For the New York Knicks who is clearly, you know, a guy that could start on other teams and

has a skill set that translates very well when he's on the floor. Huff, Huff is streaky from the

outside. We've seen the shot be there. We've seen it not, you know, he started to, you know, I guess

you could call it attack closeouts a little bit and and try to get into the lane a little bit more.

We've seen some of the float game without, you know, necessarily the dunk game being there as much

as of late. I think he's done enough. I mean, he's still top five in the league in shot blocking

even though that's tapered off a little bit as of late as well. But I think when you're talking

about the contract under team control for the next couple of years at a very low number, like,

I think next year it's three million and change. And I just, I think you're getting enough value

there. But I, I will say your point is well taken. If there is a position that we're going to spend

depending upon how we allocate our cap next year, if we're going to spend money on a position,

there is still a clear need. I don't think Huff or Potter have, have said we are for sure, you

know, solidifying that role. Yeah, they're definitely not for sure. But Huff is a state for me as

well. And really, I think it goes back to the contract point at the end. You said Brad, where

this guy's virtually no money against the cap next year. Anybody you try to bring in is going to

be more money. And so you can get a guy like Huff who albeit hasn't been consistent at all from

deep has it can protect the rim a bit. He's got the air reverse Jordan things in the bag. He

does enough things that he's at least interesting enough to me to keep as the third big. See if you

can get another guy in, but if he's got to go out there on certain matchups and on certain nights,

he can go off for 18 20 points in the first half because he just connects from deep. So he's a

stay. All right, I don't disagree with that. So we'll go now to the Australian wonder boy,

Johnny Furfie. And we'll start with Ryan this time. Ryan, this is a pretty easy question,

but stay or go for Johnny Furfie. Yeah, he's staying. He's staying hoping to get back soon.

The defensive things he were showing as he, you know, before his as ACL tear was pretty impressive.

Specifically, I'll say it. I'll always say it for a white guy. You don't see it much. At least

I feel like in that. So he was good to see the shot. He needs to get improved on the offense had

a lot, but what he was able to do defensively on wings, drawing some of the big assignments.

And we've argued, I think they list him at 68. He's feel 610 if you're down on the court. He

he is really tall and long and strength. So just hope the recovery can go really well for him,

but but he earned a roster spot in his minutes this year.

Yeah, it's a stay. It's a stay, Ryan. And for all the reasons that you said, I think,

you know, aside from Jaros Walker, this was probably the next guy on the list that everybody

had keyed in on for this season. And we were starting to see some of it come together.

They were playing him at the stretch five on certain nights when we saw him defend Miles Turner,

which is pretty easy to do when you're talking about a post matchup. But, you know,

here nor there. It's one of those things that I'm really sad we're not getting a lot of

for a few minutes right now, but he has absolutely shown enough in his time on the floor this year

to war on a roster spot next season. I don't know if you guys saw this or not,

but DeAnthony Melden had a pretty sick dunk yesterday. It was the Warriors versus the Wizards.

And it had been 102 days since he tours ACL. So I don't know what the time table will be for

Johnny Furfie. But if there's somehow some miraculous way that he could come back sooner than

expected, that would be great to see. But one of my questions to you guys just kind of talking about

the center depth here. And I know Furfie played some small ball five for Carlisle. And I know

Toppen was out of this point, but talking about his size, Ryan, do you think he's potentially big

enough to play more small ball five and maybe kind of like that small ball five or the five I was

talking about being more athletic? Could it maybe be Johnny Furfie based on all the other wings they

have at this spot? Yeah, there was definitely some encouraging size. We saw Furfie match up against

Miles Turner, which we do know comes with a caveat when we're talking about Biggs because we saw a

lot of guards and wings get that assignment at times. But Furfie shows enough and we've seen OB

thrive next to a seeachum. And at least on the defensive end, there is some that Furfie could do.

He was able to stay in front of people, use size, get some shot blocks. He was able to block and

then gather the rebound. That's one thing we talked a lot about that was pretty impressive is

kind of having that duo to contest and be able to locate the ball. So I wouldn't be saying

let's be expecting, you know, big Furfie at the five minutes next year. And hopefully he can come

back on an earlier timeline. But if he takes this off season, even puts on a little bit more weight,

a little bit more strength while keeping his athleticism, there's no reason not to think at least in

some units, specifically if they're going small as well. So it's kind of small ball five and small

ball five. Furfie's got a chance on it for sure. Brad? I mean, listen, we saw it. I think that the

first game, I don't know if it was the first game. One of the first games we saw it was against the

heat, right? So you talk about matchup driven when guys, you know, they don't start where maybe they

have as of late. I'm not sure they didn't then. Bam was at the five. You got a lot of wings around

you. Listen, he's not a center. Okay, I don't want to make it seem like he is a center. But if you

find matchups that you can hunt, then yeah, absolutely. I think there's minutes on the floor in that

position. I wouldn't to answer your question directly. I wouldn't feel comfortable saying this is

our third string quote unquote center. And we're just going to go small ball with him and OB because I

think we are seeing, you know, there's a lot of bigs that that give you problems. And I think that

it is well worth the raster spot to go get a bonafide 6 10 6 11 6, you know, whatever 240 pound guy.

And Furfie's just not that. But I mean, I think back to the OKC game, the weak side block on chat,

like he he is a guy that can do some things that I feel like we were just starting to see sort of

the tip of the iceberg and and more playing time would have done him a lot of good. And maybe that

answer would be clear if he still was on the floor right now, but 102 days. I mean, that is absolutely

flown by. And I know they say nine to 12 months. You never know. I mean, Tatum's playing and he

looks great. Like I wouldn't put anything past some of these young guys coming back. But my gosh,

102 days have have gone very quickly since that injury. Well, that was Anthony Melton's return

from his injury. So that's what I was. Oh, I'm sorry. It was 102 days. I'm like, OK, I thought you

said it was 102 days from Furfie. I'm like, no, no, no. I was like, I wasn't that that one that

far go or long or recent ago, but I will just say this. You talked about Furfie playing the five

against the heat. Well, Bam had a bite and drop 83 with Johnny Furfie on the court. So

it's all I got to say, Johnny Furfie making a case for himself. But no, I think it is a more

match of dependent type thing like you see the next game tonight. I know what you're playing.

Johnny Murphy out there against Mitchell Robinson. I mean, yo, yeah, he might have spread the

floor against him, but you're going to give up 45 rebounds in that situation. So I don't want to

go through the entire roster because I'm pretty sure that the top seven. That's pretty obvious

to stay. So we'll kind of conclude here with three more players. A guy that started tonight came

over in the Zubat's trade that's Kobe Brown and what in the world is going on with Kobe in the

garden. I don't get it. Just continues to do crazy things. But we'll go back to you, Ryan. What

do you think about Kobe Brown? This is a weird situation with the contract, but stay or go?

Yeah, it's a tough one. It kind of the argument for him staying is he's the offensive rebounding,

the rebounding in general is there. I thought he's held up fine defensively in moments.

The shot has came around a lot, obviously shooting over 40% from coming over. But the argument

then against is, are we sure this shot's real? Are you willing to bite on this portion of the

season? This guy is going to be a big shooter. And I don't want to say that, you know, your whole

game comes down to one skill, but at his position in an R team, he's got to be able to shoot. And

so I'm going to go with a go just kind of on the inkling that I'm not going to buy in that I

think this is how well Kobe is going to shoot in a Pacer's uniform or if he were to stay,

if he could, I'd still even probably lean go. Okay. All right. Brad, I'm curious about your thoughts

on Kobe Brown. Yeah, Ryan said it once already. We rarely disagree. And as much as I'd love to

disagree, I'm not going to I have him as a go. You mentioned the contract and that's going to be

that kind of throws a wrench into what we can actually offer him. But I think from play on the

court, listen, you're encouraged by the shooting like it's been better. I don't love the way it

looks. And sometimes I think like, listen, it's not all I test. And I'm not saying I've got,

yeah, I'm a, I'm like an NBA scout. I'm not. But I don't love it. Like he, yeah, he shoots three

of six tonight, but he banked one in kind of gave the camera a little bit of a grin afterwards.

And he does a lot of good things like the energy I like. I just think there are too many shortcomings.

I don't love the athleticism at all. Like I just don't think he is there. Now I say that he,

he absolutely defended OGN and it'll be better than Jeris did tonight when those matchups happen.

Like, so there are things where I say, okay, am I overlooking that too much in a guy, you know,

my just too invested in Jeris because, you know, he's a lottery pick and we've spent all this

time talking about him and watching him. But I think he's a little bit redundant in terms of where

are you going to, where are you going to fit him minutes wise, shepherd, walker,

Furfie. I mean, I, I just think he's, he's kind of redundant in that aspect. So it's a go for me.

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yeah, I don't disagree with you guys. And I will say my favorite part of this game was when

he fell on the basketball down by the defensive side of the court. And he just kind of laid there

for a second. And I think Daenerys like, I guess we're playing football. And Quinn's just

edging Daenerys on. And finally, Chris goes, yeah, brown picks up three yards and second and

second. Okay, this is what you do when you're done by 30 points to the nicks in the garden when

you've lost four ten in a row. Like these are the comments you have to make. And you know, I like

Kobe Brown. I think the story's been fun. I did not expect even what we've got out of him so far

from me personally, but it'd be surprising to see him stay. So now the two guys that are going to

be up for restricted free agency next season, not this off season, but the following off season

in 2027. Ben Shepherd, Jeris Walker, we'll do him kind of together here, Ryan. So I'll let you

kind of pick which one you want to go with first and then give me your answer for both of them.

Yeah, I'll just go right out the bat. They're both a stay for me. We talked a lot about Walker

earlier. So no need to really retread there, but there's still enough in the potential that I'm not

willing to get off of that at least going into next season. Maybe he could be a trade piece

middle of the season, depending on how he plays. But if he can turn into what we hope, there's

something there. And then with Shepherd, yes, is there anything crazy that's jumping off the

page of the season? I wouldn't say, but he's done a heck of a job getting his 3.0 percentage back

up north to 35%. I think in the first two months of the season, he was under 30. So it's one of

those things that he's kind of had to battle back. But we've seen him play in big moments. He's a

guy who can take at least a few minutes off on the star guard, even some of the smaller wings on

the opposing team. And so with that skill set, where is contract is that he's, I won't say,

I guess he's got to be on the roster. You caught me on the last one there. But he's, I think he's

earned another reason to be in there because we know what happens if he needs to be put out in a

finals game against Shay. Again, I'm not saying he's some lockdown defender, but even being able to

be trusted with that kind of a matchup is a big deal for this team. Brad. Yeah, listen,

we talked about Jeris Ollico at Ryan said, Jeris is a stay. I do think it's interesting. Okay,

on on the draft conversation, though, and I don't want to open up Pandora's box here, but,

you know, you talk about some of these guys that if we get a top four pick and it's a big if,

coin flip, I'm sure, you know, you'll, you know, you and Fats, you'll break that down as will we

add nausea, you know, once this season wraps up. But a lot of those guys that are at the top of

the draft are wing guys that are certainly going to be eating into some of those Jeris minutes.

If he can't figure out the defensive end of the floor, and then I do think because of the way

to contract situation, much like a mother, and I think there could be a cause for, you know,

is he on the trade block? Do we look to move him depending upon how all that rotation stuff breaks

out? Ryan, I will be a little bit more aggressive on the temper, on the shepherd take, though.

I think shepherd is a must keep. I think he needs to be on this roster for a number of reasons.

You mentioned the shooting. Okay. This guy was not just sub 30%. He was sub 20% at one point this

year. He was at like 19.8% after a game earlier in the season. Over the last 40 games, it's 43%

from deep. Okay. So everybody, if you rewind the clock on Ben Shepherd, everybody said, man,

if he could just knock down a shot, this guy could be really valuable. Ben is a guy that is,

he's not the rising tide that lifts all ships. Okay. He is the shift that gets lifted by the

rising tide. Like that is the way he plays. And I think you're seeing him look, well, frankly,

just I don't want to say loss, but he gets overlooked in this current version of our team because

there's no lineup continuity. We lack playmakers almost every single night. Ben is still just doing

what he does, moving the ball, trying to make the right play. But he's a guy that will absolutely

thrive when we are back to full strength next year. He is the ultimate connector piece. Very few

turnovers is starting to knock down the open shot. I mean, 40 games is not a small sample size

to be shooting 43%. And we've seen him. I mean, he had a great finish, a little finger roll tonight

at the rim, got into a passing lane that led to a transition, Jeris Bucket. Like there's just

things that I think he does really well. And listen, this is a guy that got thrown into the

Eastern Conference finals as a starter when he was a rookie. He has played in a lot of big games.

And I think there is something to be said for that where you can throw him in in the moment. It's

not too big. And if we want to be a championship contending team next year, you're going to need your

ninth or tenth man to be somebody that you are absolutely comfortable putting in the big moment.

That's why he is a must stay for me. No, I think I think both these guys are going to be hard to

get rid of right now, especially. I think maybe one of them could be a trade chip later down the road.

But looking at what you guys kind of came up with here, you're both out on Kobe Brown, you're both

out on Ethan Thompson, which means you're going to have a two way spot open. You're both out on

Michael Potter, which means, okay, we got to find another center. Kobe, that could potentially be your

draft pick that takes his spot on the roster, not a whole lot of change. And then Cam Jones is the

other one that you guys were 50, 50 on. So obviously, OBTJ, Zoo, double A tie, Drew, Pascal, those

are all stays. I'm not going to worry about that. So just looking kind of at that, you know, final 11

guys on this group, it does make it very interesting because where's all this plankton going to come from,

how deep is this roster? And, you know, I would I would encourage people like some of the guys,

like people are saying, how can you get rid of Potter? How can you get rid of, you know,

Cam Jones already after one season or whatever, like Kobe Brown, he showed some stuff. It's like

this season is not something you can really put a lot of weight into when this team has had a 13

game losing streak and now currently on a 14 game losing streak as recording this, which that could

extend to 15 to 20 to whatever it could be. So it's not like you can really take away anything

with a lot of weight from this season and you know, plant your flag and say, well, I'm a believer in

Michael Potter. He let us the three wins in three months, you know, I'm just like, okay, let's just

calm down here a little bit. So just this roster as it continues to get, they will make tweaks. Don't

get me wrong. If they miss out on this draft pick, they're still going to have to kind of fill that

Kobe Brown void. And I don't know who out there on the market could be that, but I won't be surprised

the patients are a little bit more aggressive looking to add some scoring punch to their bench because

that to me is where I really were the most about this team moving forward is, yeah, you lose

math here and I understand the flaws and things like that. But that's something I can score the basketball

when you need them to. And is there somebody out there that can be maybe a little bit more consistent

as a score off the bench than a Jaros Walker? And I don't know what names are out there that makes

sense. I don't know what you can afford. But you know, somebody like a Malik monk level type

player that's always kind of in that six man conversation when their team's good could, could kind

of be that person for the Pacers. But I'll go back to you Ryan as we close things out here.

Any, any, you know, reaction, what I just said there. Yeah, my hope is that truthfully that we go

into the luxury to afford a guy like that. We saw what the Knicks did similar one. They added

Jordan Clarkson, kind of that guy who lives in a six man of the year conversation. You need

something like that, even with the TJ and an OB, I still think you need somebody to come into that

spot. And I just hope this year that it seems like the organization, well, the organization is

bought in. Herb seems to be bought in. He's talked about going into the luxury. I just don't know how

we don't make that leap and go after one player on the free agent market potentially. See

us out there. So hopefully we, we go in and find a way to add that piece. Any final thoughts,

Brian? Lance Stevenson. And I know you guys all I'm Pacers fans. I, why would you not bring

him back? I mean, come on. I know he's been in the big three, but you need somebody on the

cheap. You need somebody that can handle the basket ball. I know I'm dreaming. It's a half

series. It's not really a serious take, but I will, I will react to your, to your point. Yes,

when you give up a Benedict Matheryn, who was a clear scoring punch, a guy that was a microwave

score. I use that term kind of microwave score light around Quentin Jackson. It's not enough. I think

you've got to go find somebody that is comfortable handling the ball and can, and can absolutely be a

scoring punch. And we've, I know Alex, we've talked about this offline and through texts and

Twitter. I know the front office says they will go into the first apron and they're okay going

into the luxury. If there's ever a time this two year window, I mean, just pull up the cap sheet.

We talk about the top seven. Look at the way that these contracts are lined up for this two year

push. This is the time. And so if you are not comfortable with the, and the depth is there.

I mean, like you talk, you talk about some of these names, Wings, Furfie, Shepard, Walker,

oh, I mean, we have a lot of guys, but if you want to make that push for a title, I think you're

spot on in your take around, we probably need a scoring punch off the bench and it needs to be

a veteran. You can't put that on us on Cam Jones. Maybe it gets there in five years, who knows,

but I'm not putting my chips in on that. Swinging for the fences on that comment right there

with Cam Jones. I will just say as we kind of close things out here, one of my favorite things about

a Brad Knight answer is before he talks, listen, you always got to throw a listen. And when I'm

working throughout the day, and I'm just listening to the Pacers post up, and I'm kind of casually

listening, boom, all of a sudden I hear Brad say, listen, I'm like, well, okay, mom's getting on

to me. I got to pay attention. It's time to focus in on what is being said because I can very

distracted easily. So I would just say the Brad Knight listens is kind of like the Fachi's

over there, right? Fachi used to always say right over there. And then he's got ever as I call

them out on it. Just kind of pulled back a little bit, which I missed those authentic Fachi days. But

you know, it's always good podcasting tidbits. I'm sure I do some of the same things all the time

as well that I'm not even aware of that someone hasn't pointed out to me yet. But if anybody has

anything that they want to point out that I do all the time, please let me know because I think

it's just funny to see what kind of quirks we have. But guys, this has been a lot of fun

conversating with you about this team. The game, obviously against New York, not a lot to talk

about there, but we have some jerseys, you know, in-depth conversations. And of course,

should they stay or should they go and pace your fans if you're watching this on YouTube,

and you would like to comment in the comment section on who you think should stay or go. Let us know

in the comment section. But send it over to you guys one more time just to let everybody

know where they can find all of your great work at. Yeah, listen, we're on Apple Spotify,

wherever you find. I just did it too. You know, it's funny, Alex. I didn't know I did it.

So I know. It's one of those things. I didn't know I did it. So I will not say that again.

Supposed to on Twitter, give us a follow, give us a review. And listen, we are

fans of setting the pace. This is, this is just now in my head. Now this is podcasting,

not what you want to do, but now I at pace are supposed to Apple Spotify, like subscribe, follow.

I think that's what we're supposed to say. And as always, I must say this, we really appreciate

you having a song because we really enjoy the conversation too. Oh, it's always a great time.

Now listen, I mean, I can't thank you guys enough for coming on the podcast and filling in,

especially on a late night like this, you know, we talked about them 730 game tips. It's another

40 minutes is what they normally do. And it's just like, oh, I'm exhausted. It's only 1112. Why am I

this tired? I was staying up watching this horrible team on the West Coast Pro trip recording after

games. So I don't know how my body does it, but I want to thank my body for staying up to watch these

games and doing it. And Pacer Nation, thank you all so much for tuning into these podcasts. But

with that being said, we will talk to y'all tomorrow as we have a recap of the Pacer's trailblazers.

I will not be on that show. It'll be our great friend Derek Schultz joining Mike Fauci. So

that'll be a fun one there. And then we'll be back on, I believe Friday to do a little bit of

for sure. I did a foreshadow here with Kevin Bowen talking about, you know, the worst and best

draft picks from Kevin Pritchard's tenure, as well as the worst and best trades that we kind of

saw. So just kind of went through that and kind of looked at team building built versus bot.

I'm sure you guys saw some of that on Twitter, you know, circulating there. So just teasing that

up because that was all a fun conversation. But with that being said, Pacer Nation, we will talk to

y'all tomorrow. Hope you'll have a great day. Peace out.

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