Republicans Suddenly Have Plans Next Week

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1:00Don't forget there's no Safe. Like Simply Safe. Welcome to Potsay of America. I'm John Fapper. I'm Dan Fiker. Okay, Dan. We got a big show today. Trump's running midterm ads about himself and hoarding his Super PAC money. Republicans are finding excuses to skip next week's Trump-A-Polusa midterm convention. The president's face is now on a $1 coin. The gerontocracy prevailed in Massachusetts this week. Kamala Harris is shrugging off some Democrats rejecting her endorsement. And Republicans have a new pro data center vote to explain. Then you'll hear Tommy's conversation with Jasper Nathaniel, an independent journalist who's been reporting on the ground in the West Bank.

2:03All right, Dan. With 60 days until the midterms, Donald Trump and Democrats completely agree on what the election should be about. Donald Trump. Republican candidates and campaigns aren't exactly thrilled with the president constantly telling voters to pretend he's on the ballot on account of his 38% approval rating. But there isn't much they can do about it. On Wednesday night, Trump summoned some of the most vulnerable Republicans in Congress to the White House so that he could helpfully say each of their names on camera and deliver the welcome news that he will be hitting the road for 35 Republican candidates in the last three days. Trump's super PAC also dipped into its $400 million war chest to shell out just under a million dollars kind of poultry for its first midterm ad featuring who else Donald Trump. Let's take a look. He is the toughest, most resilient person that I've ever met and nothing was going to stop him from fighting so hard for the country he loves.

3:10On the world needs courage, vision and inspiration. It is still turning to America. There is no challenge Americans cannot overcome. No frontier too vast for us to conquer. And our top priority will be to create a nation that is proud, prosperous and free. What the fuck was that? Oh, man. It's so good. I know you do a little show called Political Experts React, but ads, campaign ads. That has to be one of the most useless ads I've ever seen. Yes, let me use the industry term. It sucks. It's like let's put aside the obvious strategic blender of putting in the ad, the very unpopular incumbent president who is mired in a very dumb war right now. Let's just put that aside. Yep. This ad and then there's another ad that has a similar tone, but actually mentioned some policies. Those are the two ads they put up. I mean, at least that's something.

4:10But here's the thing. Both those ads, they're just so tonally off. They are victory laps at a time in which no one thinks America is winning. You have, Jardis of America, countries of the world track. You have in some polls, seven and ten voters were at the economy negatively. And here you have this doofus doing this victory lap about all the great things he's done to help America. And no one buys it. My takeaway from this is that this anyone who has spent one minute in a focus group looked at a poll this like or even just like how to conversation with the actual person out in the world. We're never making an ad like this. This was an ad made for one swing voter and that swing voter was Donald J Trump so we can feel better about himself. That's what this was. I understand that. I even think if you were trying to make Donald Trump feel better about himself, you wouldn't create an ad like that. You'd like create an ad about how he was great and did a bunch of things and a couple like there's not even accomplishments in that ad. It's just like courage vision, courage, America, America.

5:13But also it's just and it takes for it's so lazy because it's takes from the state of the union which he delivered as if he was on Xanax. So there's a new Washington Post story that despite assurances from Trump's political advisors quote Republicans are increasingly skeptical and suspicious that Trump's actually going to spend his $400 million war chest on the midterms. They have concluded that it's already too late some Republicans on campaigns and that Trump is holding on to the money for his own purposes. I guess my initial reaction after reading that story and watching that ad is do they really want more ads like that? Is that what they're hoping he'll spend the money on? I imagine that's not what they're hoping for. I'm not even sure what his own purposes are. I mean, I guess he could steal the money and no one would have prosecuted him. They've listed passing on the money to his chosen successor in 28. Post presidential travel pet projects at like his library which is estimated to cost around a billion dollars going to be a sky scraper in Miami.

6:23I'm not even sure the legality of transferring any money. Like he can't give any of this money to another federal candidate so he couldn't give it to JD Vance or Marca Ruby or Pete Hicks out there take Cruz wherever the Republican nominee is. He can't give any of it to anyone on the ballot now. He can't give it to the RNC or the other CC. I don't know I'm sure he can legally give it to his library. I mean, he could steal it. He could run ads in supportive JD Vance or whoever else in 2028. But even if he whatever reason he's not spending money which I'm sure is a stupid reason. Or criminal or criminal. He's already wasted the huge advantage. When you have a huge money advantage, you deploy it early when your opponents don't have money because money invested in infrastructure technology organizing staff in 10 months before the election is worth 10 times the money invested one month before the election. And so and because he's waited so long he's already going to pay through the nose for any ads he does buy because ad time has been bought up and they are just truly these local TV stations they are.

7:32It's the last days at disco for them and they are gouging every superfac as much as possible. So like he is he's already wasted his advantage in a huge way. How much does this matter because I assume that even if he doesn't spend another dime. Republicans still have a pretty significant cash advantage over Democrats. Not just because of the RNC DNC debacle more of a DNC debacle than we talked about. But also I think the Senate and House committees on the Republican side have more than the Democrats as well. And the Republican super PACs other than the Trump super PAC have more money than the Democratic super PACs. And so I was actually just because I already starting to spend as well from his super PAC. I was looking at the competitive which is the amount of money being spent in each state for starting next week and it gets alarming very fast. The disparity between what Republicans are spending on TV and Democrats are spending is large.

8:32Now the one hopeful caveat I would give you is dollars a dollar is a bad way of measuring this because a super PAC a dollar you need $3 a super PAC money to essentially get one dollar of campaign money because by law. Let's say it's James Celerico versus the Elon Musk super PAC. Celerico can buy an ad I'm making these numbers up for let's say he if he costs to tell Rico $10 an ad it will cost the Republicans $30 an ad because by law you have to the TV stations have to offer the candidates the lowest available rate and they can gouges the super PACs. But the Republican money is flowing and so this would just be on top of that. It does you know the place where I think it's going to matter most is Texas. There are a lot of Republicans who do not want to give money to Ken Paxson he's a terrible fundraiser the. The institutional Senate Republican donors hate Ken Paxson because they like John Cornyn they spend a gazillion dollars to try to save John Cornyn and James Celerico is raised truly ungodly sums of money and so if Trump does not come into help Paxson it's not really clear where that money is going to come from.

9:35I also imagine that in addition to spending on TV they'll probably want to spend on digital ads all over the place to and there's no limit there I mean like there's no lower rate for candidates there is there is that's just no they can everyone can gouges everyone that's right for good. So either way it's like it seems more like an internal fight between you know Trump and his advisors and Republican candidates but at the end of the day it's not like we should be celebrating the fact that Trump may not spend his four hundred million dollars I think it'd be best if he did not for us best if he did not spend did not like we're we are really hanging on by a threat here to try to stay competitive in all these places and we're going to see. Particularly in some of the the harder states for us where there are hoping spending advantage is going to start to hurt and so if you could take a half a bill nearly a half billion dollars and keep them in sidelines I would endorse that decision are they're diminishing returns at some point for sure for sure but it's just these races are so close performance have so much money that it would be.

10:36We don't we're limited our ability to expand the map because of our money troubles it's not even it's not even money troubles the democrats the senate House Democrats have done a very good job of raising money but they're probably just raised a lot more and so it's just. Let's try to if Trump does not want to spend four hundred million dollars and that's not spent that does reduce their money managed by four hundred million dollars and that's that's good I guess everyone else listening you can go to vote to America calm we have plenty of great candidates. And very very competitive races some of the most competitive races in the house and the senate and down ballot who you can donate to so every dollar counts at this point. Just to hammer home for people how truly excited republicans are about Trump's plans make the midterms about Trump our friends at Politico surveyed more than seventy Republican candidates and members of Congress about whether they plan to attend Trump's midterm convention in Dallas next week. Which of course the RNC chair is calling Trump a pollusa good branding let's just say there are a surprisingly coincidental number of scheduling conflicts forty five of these republicans said they're not going dozens more declined to share their plans not a lot of people touting their plans to attend CNN tried to pin down a few Republicans in the halls of Congress this week to see if they were going to go let's see how it went.

12:04They go to the Republican convention next week. I'm planning to be in my district. I'm going to the Republican convention next week. I have to be in the district because I have events I would love to go. I was thinking about it I'm going to miss out on something important but I cannot be into places at the same time. Nope you cannot but you get to pick which of those two places you're in and you chose not the convention someone interviewed Max Miller asked him about it and he said no I want to be spending the time with my family. Okay that's tough one. So Dan what if what if the president throws a party for his party and no one comes. It'll be like most birthday parties that Trump had from age five to 14. I think they have like 2000 people attending so far I saw somewhere and I think they interviewed Timbershot about it or a Republican member of Congress and he said all I don't know they sent me a $25,000 bill to go so I don't know if I want to go either.

13:07Yeah that's an important point there. Not just that you were invited to go you're invited to go and then pay to go and it's 10 to 25,000 dollars most people and then up to $100,000 for some folks. I see this convention as primarily an opportunity for Democrats. Yeah because now I imagine they're going to spend if if they're halfway smart which I don't suggest that they are Republicans they will at least spend the convention like driving up Democrats negatives are trying to and trying to unload the Oppo file on all the different Democrats running for in the midterms. So I imagine that's probably what they'll do but I feel like for Democrats just having Trump up there speaking and also connecting all the Republicans who are attending who are in competitive races to Trump will be a boon to Democrats like Mike Rogers is going. Apparently which is why John Houston who's running again shared Brown and Ohio is going. My color I think it's going yeah my colors going I think Susan Collins wisely to Jay Martz had that she is not going but yeah I'm surprised that Rogers and Houston are going.

14:18Yeah it's all very strange like in the end of the day I see such a gigantic waste of time at a machine money like what and making us stay up Thursday night because you and I recording the pod after the. Yes that we are the true losers are us the but it's like what non political person is going to consume any of this content like what swing voter is going to see it is not going to cover live on television like an actual convention is not going to get the media attention of an actual convention. So I can have the pop and starts an actual convention and it kind of is like an unlearning of all the lessons that work for public since 2024 like when they succeeded was when they were communicating in non political spaces so decided to have a giant political party that looks like the most political thing possible to do their main messaging. Yeah as one republican strategist said the coverage is going to be all about whatever the crazy shit the president decides to say yeah which is about right now if you're. Now if you're a republican candidate who can't make the convention or get the president to campaign with you fear not he's going to do everything he can to make sure voters are thinking about him when they go to the polls for example the US meant began selling one dollar Trump coins this week Trump's face on a coin legal tender you can buy you can buy 25 coin rolls for the low price of just 61 dollars.

15:43Just question that's 25 one dollar coins for 61 dollars just engaged in a calculator on hand that works out to about $2.44 per one dollar coin. Why would someone do that John well Dan apparently quite a few people have done it because 150,000 were printed or made by the mint or whatever the fuck you say I think they're minted I think they meant them oh there is a verb for it there you go they're minted they're minted go ahead make sure you're going to do it. Go ahead make fun of me for that and I went on the website of the mint website just to see if I could buy a lot you act act now well supplies last and they're all sold out wow they are already sold out and we are we're sure that money goes to the treasury right no no I'm sure he pockets it and I'm sure that they were purchased by I don't know mag a ink the Trump family yes I think it's a Trump family I think it's more likely to be someone with a case before the department of justice.

16:44So it's legal tender meaning that like you can use it as real money right it's a dollar dollar coin but. Legal tender doesn't guarantee every store will accept Trump coins federal law generally let's private businesses decide what forms of payment they'll accept so you can refuse a Trump coin someone tries to pay you in a Trump coin. Just good good information for people to have. Interesting I think it is funny that it's going to now cost you four Trump coins to put a gallon of gas in your car. We should we shouldn't measure all the costs of the war and Trump coins yes speaking of the war you can take those coins with you on your next trip through the Trump straight which is what the president has suggested renaming the straight of four moose just to make sure people forever associated a geopolitical disaster that's led to a global energy crisis with the man responsible Donald J Trump. How many Trump coins will it take to make sure that happens you think that he renames that because I would pay all my Trump coins to make sure that the straight of four moose is renamed the Trump straight it's like it's like it's like renaming the Baghdad airport the George W Bush international airport in back.

18:01Just a little big horn is custer hill just so just so everyone can always associate Donald Trump with the straight of four moose just what like what was I don't even understand how he got to that point in his thinking. And then well it is interesting because some of these other things he floated gulf of America Lake America know of you know obviously they happened. This one he was asked about in the oval today or yesterday can't remember any of the days Wednesday who knows and asked him if he was serious and he was like no no I was just thrown it out there I was just thrown it out there. To try a moment yeah even he probably realized is that what I want to do I want to put my name on the straight of four moose where they're shooting down shooting it at oil tankers still six months into this war that I had promised would end in a couple weeks. Yeah not not not his not as best idea John. Did you see the Wall Street Journal story about how Trump is contemplating just declaring the Iran war over.

19:04The thing that's so funny about this is done it so many times already yes is that line is buried in a story that's entirely the rest of the story ever the word in that story is about how they're extending the deployments for troops into 2027. Like I remember seeing that headline. Thinking that was quite stupid then going back when I went to go back to the store like this can't be the same story because this entire story is about the war continuing and how much longer the troops are going to be there. But like I don't even like what he would declare it's over he did do the mission accomplished truth last week he thought I thought it was over. He did I think so Alex Ward with the story Wall Street Journal great reporter and there's been some other reporting around this to you I believe what they're thinking is. They want to have a whole bunch of troops there deployed maybe into 2027 because but the same time they want everyone ahead of the midterms to think that the war is over really beyond the midterms.

20:05So who knows I could see Trump planning some announcement some more formal announcement where he says the war is over maybe he'll do it Trump a police at the convention. Or maybe he'll do it in October when it's closer to election day and then they want to have the troops there for afterwards so they can resume the bombing if they need to resume the bombing and the military strikes and all the rest after the midterms are over. So maybe that's it well let's just play this out for a second so let's say let's say it happens in Trump a poll is a. Next Thursday night you and I are sitting by our computers wedding a podcast Trump makes this big announcement declares the war over says the end of major combat operations in the Trump the straight of Trump. And then immediately after that Iran shoots a missile at something and then we respond yep then what happens well we're just that's just that doesn't count that's not part of the old war that's part of a new thing that they're just we're just most. And in this modern media environment people know the war is going on not be picking up the newspaper off their front suit but by going to the gas station they're not going to stop going to gas station.

21:14No they're not and there's been a lot of their trump coins at the gas. Unlike a lot of other Trump ideas this one seems not particularly well thought out no I mean if you dig into all this there seems to be and we talked about this a little on Tuesday's pod but like there seems to be a thought that. Because we have successfully navigated either around the straight of for moves or help ships through the straight of for moves so we're getting more oil out than we did before that perhaps we could all live with. Or maybe the ultimate goal is like 60 to 70% of pre war levels of oil getting out of the straight of for moves and maybe if we can get that then every time Iran fires off a missile and we fire back then it'll sort of just fade into the background eventually and people won't really pay much attention to it now again that's still 50,000 US troops in the Middle East so at some point they'll probably want to come home to their families and their families will be wondering where they are so I don't know how they're going to get around that either.

22:14I think for the problem for Trump here is twofold one is as long as gas prices remain elevated over not where they are right now but where they were before this whole thing started that's the that's the main political Trump for Trump the main pressure point. But the other thing here is the political problem is not the failure to end the war is the decision to start the war that was the fundamental breaking of faith with what so many people even people who did not really like Trump thought he stood for which was no foreign wars no forever worse and so once he did that and it was a giant. And it continued on and gas prices went up and people suffered and people died like I don't think any of that goes away because we get to a very sort of quiet behind the scenes is really get attention. You know missile exchange every pure out of missile exchange with Iran. See a navigator had a new poll today that found 20% of Trump 2024 voters regret voting for him and the number one reason cited is Iran. 45% cite the war with Iran and Trump's foreign policy and then close behind it 43% cite prices in the cost of living which is because of the war mostly the other part is because of Trump's tariffs the other war the trade war.

23:24And when you do this in focus groups the words you hear of broken promises like that's the thing and this the both of those fall under the broken promises category. Yep. Pots of America is brought you by wild the last company the difference between low and high quality seafood is enormous. But it's also one of those things that's tough to accurately assess for yourself in the grocery store. Wild the last company offers the best way to get wild caught high quality seafood delivered to your door on your schedule. Each wild the last can box comes with individually portioned fillets vacuum sealed easy to prep and great for any mail no matter how quick or elevated all fish is quick frozen fresh from the Alaskan waters which helps lock in its freshness texture flavor and key nutrients like omega 3's. It's fish you can trust with no GMOs antibiotics or other additives every order supports sustainable harvesting practices and Alaskan fishermen whose history is tied to the region and practice you cook any wild the last can lately.

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26:32All right let's talk about the democrats who just wrapped up their final competitive primary of a very very long twenty twenty six on Tuesday my home state went to the polls and overwhelmingly chose Ed Markey to be the democratic senate nominee from Massachusetts the incumbent senator easily offended off a challenge from congressman Seth molten who attempted to make the race a referendum on generational change in the democratic party molten as forty seven mark is eighty with the backing of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren he made the race about his progressive Bonafide is telling politico quote it's not about your age it's about the age of your ideas isn't that a long time act statement acts quote feel like I've heard that so many times anyway all these things get recycled did he do that because Obama was so young we had all we were young but we know that he is acts used to say acts used to suggest that Biden used that line. Oh that's right that's right that's right yeah it's not about your age it's about the age of your ideas and I am the youngest guy in this race when it comes to ideas. What do you think of this victory for the gerontocracy I think it exposed the limits of generational change campaigns which is molten campaign really just was Marquis old I'm young without ever being able to explain what what was lost for Massachusetts voters by Marquis age and what would have been gained by Molten's younger age and usually the cases the younger can is the one more in touch with young voters.

28:00But from a policy perspective Marquis was much more in touch with what young voters actually wanted on health care on climate on Israel you know being the sponsor the green new deal. And if you if you're the young candidate running on a community generational change you can't win young voters you're not going to win in fact you probably lose by 30 points as Molten did the other backdrop to this there a couple of the backdrops of this one is Marquis is 80 but not every 80 year old is the same and he seems very like you watch him in the debates he's very what we can do. He's he's very he's very with it in energetic and and you know and he didn't have a moment like Biden did at the debate or John Larson the candidate from Connecticut had when he sort of froze on the house floor that sort of haunted him. And so he seemed you know like you look at him you like that guy can do the job. But what also was different here than it was perhaps in Maine both for Biden in 2024 and in Maine for Janet Mills is this is a safe seat it's Massachusetts. So there's there wasn't this question of electability like can he hack it in a general in a really tough campaign right it's like he wins this primary he wins.

29:08If something happens a democratic ever to point some it's like it's not there just wasn't this question of ability to actually defeat Republicans and so he won the one so easily he actually even won Molten's congressional district by about eight points I think. Yeah I think molten only one his like hometown and some of the surrounding towns. Yeah molten was and it was my congressman when I or at least my hometowns congressman who will now be represented by Dan Co former Biden advisor who was in so there's a couple other house primaries that was one of them where I think it's shit the results showed that like these things are complicated and they don't always fit a narrative right so in the sixth which is where what molten used to represent. Dan Co beat the more progressive challenger there now it was an open seat they're both fairly young so there's that Steven Lynch 71 year old congressman from sort of Southern Massachusetts he faced a primary challenge from our old White House intern Patrick Rowe he was one of the first class of interns in the Obama White House 2009 press.

30:13Press feature in office no press. Oh. Your office Dan my office. He was great. It's a little bit yeah no it's great but he so 71 Patrick's 39 Medicare for all. What's your insurance are 39 I know right hit Lynch on Lake and Riley act so you had a younger more progressive challenger with an older more conservative incumbent and he gave me an answer. You know he got the first time first time candidate came with them like 10 points closer than Lynch has ever had in a primary challenge that's how that seat but you know that that speaks to even even the progressive versus more moderate thing it doesn't always fit with the narrative too so some and I only point that out because I think we're always like trying to fit all of these races into okay is it old versus young but this one was progressive versus moderate and those are the only two things that matter and sometimes it's like personalities matter where you are.

31:13How many people know you how many people are paying attention to the race like all kinds of factors going to this at this point in that after when somebody people knocked knocked out that candidates are not called off guard anymore. Like Diane to get did treat treat treat like any other election where she faced a challenge and before she knew it she was in huge trouble. This is a case where these candidates knew knew to be care new to be part because it was going on with Markey but they knew to be can't be in the district be campaigning be raising money be doing stuff and give them a better chance to defend it off. Yeah alright so in another sign of where the party may or may not be headed political rena story about democrats in competitive races rejecting the support of their parties last presidential nominee Kamala Harris on top of Josh Turic Rob Sand and Mary Peltola who we talked about the other week playbook at similar answers about Kamala from the democratic senate nominee and Kansas Adam Hamilton as well as Rebecca Cook who's running in a very flippable Wisconsin congressional district and has received the endorsement of Bernie Sanders.

32:13Harris acknowledged this sentiment for the first time today saying in a phone interview with Peter Alexander of MS now that she supports these candidates quote doing whatever they need to do to win Harris will be on the trail next week campaigning for Aaron Ford in Nevada who Tommy just talked to this week and she's recently endorsed and races in New Hampshire California and Tennessee. What do you make of Harris's approach here and sort of just this general story which sort of was a you know now has been sort of churn in for a couple weeks I. Think this is sort of a bullshit test for Harris like it's an unfair question like name the national Democrat other than possibly Barack Obama who would be invited to campaign in Kansas Iowa Alaska like a true national figure well. Uh, I mean, would you know I'd be invited would Gavin Newsom be invited. No, but can I ask you a question yeah. So I agree with that and I agree that it's a bullshit test for Kamala Harris alone to pass.

33:19And all those other people who are running should be asked the same question right or potentially running 2028. Don't you think we need a nominee in 2028 who will be welcomed in a lot more difficult space and a lot more difficult. Well, this is the real test to me is not Kansas Iowa Alaska. The real test is Georgia congressional districts like Bob Brooks and Pennsylvania, Kate Connellese, race against Michael. Like are you can you campaign and are you invited to campaign in purple state states that you lost by you know a couple hundred thousand votes at most last time. Are you invited to campaign for a duel in Michigan that to me is the fair test. Well, I bring it up because I was thinking about you mentioned Obama Obama now whatever. Yeah, of course people want him think about oh sex right. Yeah, he can't be where I'm still the one and you know who they didn't want in many places. John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. Well, I was saying in oh sex, John Kerry had just been the nominee right and lost and it's people didn't want John Kerry anywhere.

34:19But Barack Obama the the black guy named Brock is in Obama from Chicago was invited everywhere and you would hope. And again, it's it this is tough right because maybe if John Ossoff wins Georgia, you'd say, oh well most candidates in purple and light red states would want us off there. But like there's no other midterm between now in 2028. So some of the some of the candidates that might be welcomed in those areas and could be great presidential candidates James Tallerico. Like they're currently running in races right now. Yeah, yeah. So it's like you think about the people who are some of the people who were thinking of running are not well known enough to be truly polarizing like I imagine Mark Kelly. We invited a lot of places. He's yeah, he's an astronaut. You know, he but he's not a national political figure in a way. I'd be curious about people to judge, you know, that's a good one. I mean, he's been a lot of places actually. Yeah. He's been it and he's been it. And he there's one thing to go to all these red places and you will see candidates in like these red. These really, really hard states will want national Democrats to get attention for the race.

35:20But with like Josh Turek when I campaign with Pete who won the I would be interested. That's the that's the good question. That's a great question. Now if I was advising Josh Turek, I would say have no national Democrats in the state like none. Right. Like what is the upside for you at this point? I'd be very curious to know if Kamala Harris will campaign in Georgia for Kishelman's bottoms who worked for her. And where her ability to turn out to black folk couldn't matter a lot in that race. You know, was she campaigned Pennsylvania? North Carolina is interesting. I imagine work Cooper's not going to want anyone in his state. He doesn't need it. Right. But that's just to me. It's just I read that story this morning and it was just like this is just an unfair question to ask of Kamala Harris. When you know, when a Bobbill is president, he wasn't going to deep red states to campaign. There has been a lot of focus on Kamala Harris around this. But like you are completely right to say like what about Gavin Newsom? What about any of these other, you know, what about AOC? Yeah. I do find it interesting that I mean, and he is a national political figure now who is very well liked in the party and beyond the party Bernie Sanders.

36:22campaigning with Rebecca Cook. And Rebecca Cook is not like a like a DSA lefty candidate. She's a pretty moderate working class candidate in a pretty red district in Wisconsin. And clearly feels that Bernie Sanders by her side is helpful. Here's my question. Does Bernie come back to Michigan before election day for Abdul? Yes, I think so. I would think so. Do the AOC comes back? Good question. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe she goes to Ann Arbor. Maybe she go, you know, I could see her on college campuses. I mean, I would if if I'm dual was asked to be I wouldn't be I would not. I would be totally I would say I would be totally fine with him campaigning. Like you're already there is like a zil, like they want to put you with Bernie Sanders and AOC in an ad. All you have to do is run hits after the primary of a pool with AOC and Bernie. And so you might as well get the benefits of it on college campuses and places like that. I do think there will be people from the Abdul campaign and the Michigan Democratic Party at the Detroit airport just watching to see if a soundpecker gets off the plane.

37:26Sure. He doesn't go to any of it. Yeah. They're wondering like do they've access to the no fly list? Can we have a state-based no fly list? But yeah, no, I think I think Bernie's probably a plus for a dual in the home stretch. For sure. Okay. One last item that's become a big midterm issue and will almost certainly become an even bigger 2028 issue AI and data centers. The same week the Donald Trump told Americans who oppose data center construction that they're going to end up quote backwards and poor. Democrats began pointing out that nearly every single Republican in Congress voted to prevent states and cities and towns from regulating the construction of data centers and voted to give tax breaks to AI companies that build data centers, especially in rural areas. Nearly one in five data centers currently under construction got these tax breaks thanks to the Republican Congress. This was part of Trump's big bill that also made massive Medicaid cuts. If I were running against an incumbent Republican member of Congress,

38:27I think I would spend the next 60 days absolutely hammering my opponent for voting to cut Medicaid, cut taxes for billionaires, cut taxes for AI companies so they can build data centers in your backyard. All in the same bill. Then you throw in their support for the war and Trump's tariffs, making things more expensive and like that's your campaign. Are they going to put the data centers on the sites of the rural hospitals they close with their Medicaid cuts? Perfect. That's a mad. See? There you go. Free idea. Close the rural hospital, put in a data center, tax cuts to the data center, your paying more. Yep. I mean, it's all right there. I think what do you think of that hit? I think it's a great hit. I didn't know that about the one big beautiful bill. I in fact, I know about it because you tweeted it. Then I saw you mentioned a political story as one of the people pushing this. Oh wow, look at that. I saw it from Brandon Duke on Twitter who had found it in the bill, liberal policy guy. And so then I was like, holy shit, is that real? Then suddenly I saw he came, Jeffrey's talking about it at a press conference.

39:30And I was like, all right, we're off to the races. Get that shit and then add. One tweet can change the world. No, no, I don't think it was my tweet at all. I don't think anyone saw it. Progressives also just launched a more aggressive approach to AI. On Thursday, Senator Bernie Sanders and Congressman Greg Kassar announced the Ban Artificial Superintelligence Act, which would quote permanently ban the development and deployment of super intelligent AI and pause, quote, AI development until a federal regulator has established safety rules. Speaking of that hypothetical regulator, political reports that Mark Zuckerberg had a secret call with Donald Trump, where he expressed concerns about plans for a national AI regulator. You don't say. And here's what open AI CEO Sam Altman said about calls to regulate AI when he sat down with Howard Nutlick at the G20 on Wednesday. As industry leaders do often do it, so you do interviews. Always. Yeah. I think it would be approximately as bad of an idea to say we're not going to have AI in our country.

40:32As it was to say we're not going to have electricity in our country, you know, back 100 plus years ago. My prediction is we won't be talking about AI as much as we do in a decade from now. Because we'll be dead. Because we'll just expect it everywhere. You know, like a kid growing up today will never be smarter. Then AI. But he or she will also never have understood a world where every product and service that they interact with is not really smart and really capable and really helpful. They're a fantastic message to parents. Hey, parents, your kids will never be smarter than the machine that I'm building that we have won. No guardrails around whatsoever. And by the way, bulldoze that hospital nearby because we're putting in a data center. Just can we unpack this comment for one second? Let's first give me my stipulating that Sim Altman is a very bad spokesperson. But he's probably bad. He's maybe bad in many ways, but he's not a good spokesperson for his industry. Like what is the point he's making that your gigantic supercomputer wouldn't which you much build data centers on every corner to power is smarter than a native old?

41:38Of course it is. You know what's smarter than a native old? Like computers we had last year or two years ago. I think he's saying your kids will never no matter what grown into adults. That's a matter of not. That's the point of computers. Look, look at this forklift we built. It's stronger than any man. That's the whole point of having the forklift. Look at these cars that are faster than any human can run. Yes, that's it. Like that doesn't even make any sense. Well, no, but this raises a good point about Bernie's bill as well. Right? Because what Bernie and Kassar put out is so banned artificial superintelligence. This is also known as ASI. Right? You might also hear AGI. That's artificial general intelligence, which is AI that matches human level reasoning. Now, right now, the people that build the AI, the hyperscalers, whatever the fuck they are, Sam Altman, all the rest of them, they don't think that we have quite reached AGI yet, but maybe we're about to have reached AGI. I have an announcement. Oh, we already done it. Have we just done it? Greg Brockman, the president of the company.

42:40He announced it today. Yeah, they have asked it. So they think, what they think. Well, this is the problem is that no one knows. None of these people know exactly. Like there's no, oh, we have definitely reached AGI. Because no one can define exactly what human level of reasoning and intelligence is. Like it's sort of, I guess it's just sort of a vibe. Same thing with artificial superintelligence, which is they say we haven't reached yet, but you clearly say that we've reached with the forklift a long time ago. Just saying that we can make things that are stronger and smarter than people. It's just basic. It's basic. Just basic computers. I think what Bernie's getting at is like some of these AGI leaders and the people that are in these companies like Sam Altman have already, Neelan Musk have already said like, oh, sometimes we may not be able to control these machines at some point. And Bernie's point is if you can't control the machines, then why are you building the fucking machines if they're beyond human control? Which is a good question. That's a great question. It's a good question. I don't know that the band actually works or how it works or that it has, like it seems like more of a, like he's planting a flag in the ground

43:41than an actual plan here. But it does raise the point that again, that people like Sam Altman are like, well, you know, the kids aren't going to be ever smart as AI and Greg Brockman saying, oh, we've hit artificial general intelligence and oh, the hugging face disaster where a bunch of AI agents got out of the sandbox and found the internet and suddenly, you know, took over everything and tried to hide from humans and it's like, and then they all look at this and like, well, this is bad. This is bad. Five alarms. Everyone should be really worried about this. But anyway, we're going to go back to work. We're going to keep building this because China, we don't want China to have it. We want if China develops the technology to, you know, render humanity extinct, we got to get that too. We got to get that too. I tweeted, basically after some of the data centers off a few weeks ago, I tweeted that the, from a, like, just from a pure step back, communications messaging perspective, the people who do politics and policy and communications at the AI companies have done an absolutely miserable fucking job.

44:44And one of the points is that these people go out all the time and they are, they proudly and callously tout as Sam Altman always does, the cataclysmic consequences of the product. And I heard from a lot of people who, like, but publicly and then privately who work in the industry or around the industry who say, no, no, a lot of people who work in AI are really concerned about the, they're genuinely concerned about it. And they want, they feel obligated to express that concern. And I actually do believe a lot of people who work in the industry are concerned. I think that's a lot of what drives, you know, it's like, open a eggs exist because everyone thought Google was too dangerous and then anthropic exists because of people, anthropic thought that it's too dangerous. And I can't wait to find out what the next thing is. But the problem is you're saying how dangerous your product is. On one hand, the other hand, you're pushing rapidly for an IPO as fast as possible in order to get liquidity to your investors. Yep. And so it's just there is this, like, one day we're going to destroy the world. The other day we're going to buy the world with the money we make from destroying the world.

45:47Well, and you're also calling Donald Trump, like Mark Zuckerberg or I guess Trump called him and saying, but I don't want to regulate her. I don't want to regulate her. And you know, Sam Altman's like, well, you know, it's voluntary. We want these voluntary standards, but of course we're abiding by them because we want to work with the government on this because we're, you know, we're nice guys. But like, they don't really want the regulation. The way they fight the regulation is by saying we have to win this race or else China's going to win. And then they go out and say, oh yeah, but this is really dangerous. But also still no regulation. Thank you. We'll take care of it. It really is telling everyone we'll take care of it. We're going to build the data centers whether you like it or not. And, uh, and fuck off. Which is why I, you and I saw some, some private polling. The data centers are down to like 20% approval. Yeah. It's a true bipartisan issue. And it almost never seen an issue reach this level of intensity this quickly. People would rather have a nuclear power plant or a prison or a methadone clinic.

46:48They were all more favorable being built in your community than a fucking AI data center. And when they tested it with, oh, and the company building the data center will provide, um, the power and will make sure that they're bear all the costs and the people in the community do not, people don't buy it. It goes up a couple percent, but people just don't trust the AI companies on this. Even when you do it ostensibly the right way and make sure that the AI companies bear all the costs and that people in these communities are held harmless. They just don't trust that that's going to happen. And they don't trust big tech. Why would that? Yeah. That's fair point. So I think this, I mean, you know, I do hope, yeah, obviously there's a smorgasbord of things for Democrats to run on in the midterms, but I think and hope this will be one of the big issues. And then certainly this will be a big issue in 2028. And I think in 2028 the challenge is going to be staking out positions on this that are responsive to the populist furor out there

47:55while also being like realistic and responsible, right? Because like, and I don't say that to be like, oh, we need to find a middle ground, but these people are developing the technology. Much of it is already here. So the question is like, how do we put the, we actually do need to get guardrails around them. So we just do need to pass something. That's right. Okay. One last thing before we get to Tommy's interview with Jasper and Nathaniel, a little news about someone, you know, Jasper's an actual journalist. This is about someone who plays a journalist on TV. Maria Bartoromo is out at Fox News. So Fox that happened this morning, Thursday morning, Fox released a rather vague statement about why that just said we thank Maria for her work over the last 12 and a half years and wish her all the best on her next chapter. But Oliver Darcy at Status News has the scoop on Thursday afternoon. Yeah, it says, after Trump delivered his unhinged primetime speech in which he pushed more conspiracy theories about the 2020 election. Remember that? Remember the China thing?

48:58I am told, this is Oliver writing this, I am told that Fox News issued guidance to senior employees instructing them to steer clear of giving credence to Trump's delusional claims. I'm told that the guidance was issued in writing, but ultimately Bartoromo spilled the secret statuses learned, divulging to the White House that Trump's speech had received scant coverage on the channel because network bosses had ordered it so. I'm even told the text message in which Fox News brass offered their guidance was shared by Bartoromo with the White House. In doing so, Bartoromo not only effectively betrayed her employer, but also disclosed confidential company information, violating the terms of her employment agreement. What do you think about that? Well, it's more interesting, I guess, than what we all thought when her resignation or firing was announced. We thought she was going to the White House press secretary. And I believe she was a good, pretty interesting, I think. Was she on your list of potential? So I think she was too, but I had knocked a few people off list, so I couldn't remember, but if you remember that she was on my list. I remember that because she said that earlier today, that's why. Oh, maybe that's fine. At one point she was on my list, yeah.

49:58And she still could. She still could become press secretary. I would say my number one choreist, Rachel Campo Stuffy, has been really out on a media tour recently auditioning for this task. Yeah, and all the, maybe in all the wrong ways. Maybe in all the wrong ways. I wouldn't say she's doing a great job. All the wrong ways for you if you were hiring the White House press secretary. Yeah, that's pretty wild. It is funny that, I mean, it's, I'm here about Roma, whatever, but sort of the internal drama at Fox, where like the president gives this speech about, you know, China interfering the election, everyone thinks it's bullshit. It was sort of weird on Fox, not to hear it. And sure enough, it was because, I guess defamation lawsuits work. If you lose three quarters of a billion dollars for putting a bunch of crazy shit on your TV, you might learn a lesson from it. And they certainly did. And then when so far as to fire her for, fucking snitching on them to Donald Trump. And she is a huge election denier. Like she is huge. She is huge. Prior to the Dominion thing, she was like deep into this. I mean, as most financial journalists would be, deep into a, man, she has had a journey.

51:00Once upon a time, she was like a fairly normal journalist. Yes, she was very, very popular. CMBC anchor. Can't wait to see where she ends up next. All right, up next, Tommy's interview with independent journalist Jasper Nathaniel. Pods of America's Broaddee by Stamps.com. We could all use a few more hours, even minutes in the day for ourselves. Don't I know it? Skip your trip to the post office and stop letting mailing steal your precious little time with Stamps.com. With Stamps.com, you can print postage and shipping labels from your computer or phone 24-7 with up to 90% off UPS, USPS, FedEx, and more. No lines, no trips, no waiting. Get everything done in minutes and even schedule free pickups. So carriers come right to you. Whether you're sending letters, contracts, important legal documents, packages, ballots that you just made yourself. Those famous homemade ballots with a human touch. Stamps.com makes mailing simple for businesses of all sizes,

52:01including multi-location offices. You can even send certified mail with proof of delivery right from your desk. I mean, we love Stamps.com. We've been using it since 2017 when this when credit started. And we were like, we don't have time to go to the post office. We're going to go to the business here. Yeah, we're trying to do commerce. And so we use stamp.com and boy, is it great? Trying to harness the promise of one of the greatest forces for good in the history of the world, capitalism. Oh, yeah. If mailing is taking more time and more money than it should, try Stamps.com free for four weeks and get a welcome kit. Go to stamps.com slash PSA to get this offer today. That's STAMPS.com slash PSA. Stamps.com slash PSA. Taxes and fees apply. My guest today is an independent journalist focused on stories from inside the occupied West Bank. Jasper Nathaniel, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me. Great to see you. We've talked. We've zoomed. I've never mentioned person.

53:01It's great to have you in LA. Yeah. Thanks for having me. If you guys want to find Jasper's work, first of all, you go to Substack and search for infinite Jas or go to infinitejaz1z.com. So he's totally self-funded. He's an independent journalist. So if you sign up for a paid subscription, we're sending you back to the West Bank. It sounds like that's right. Thank you for other Pots in America, folks. Get on board. So I wanted to have this conversation with you today because we've talked a lot about Gaza on this show. I don't think we've talked about the West Bank much ever. And for a variety of reasons that we'll get into, I think the West Bank could have bigger political implications and could be an even more fundamental part of the 2028 Democratic primary in particular. For listeners who want some context or unfamiliar with the issue or the area, the West Bank is a little piece of territory. They've got Jordan to their east, Israel everywhere else. It's home to about 3 million Palestinians, nearly 700,000 Israeli settlers. And so when you hear people talk about a two-state solution

54:02and the creation of a Palestinian state, the majority of the territory for that state was supposed to be the West Bank. But for decades now, the West Bank has been carved up and stolen by Israeli settlers. And so when politicians say to you, I support a two-state solution. I think the next question has to be, okay, where's the territory? Where's the state you're talking about? Where we draw on those borders. And so we'll get into all that in a minute. But first, let's just do the basics. Jasper, can you explain to listeners what is the Israeli settler movement? And how has it changed since the October 7th attacks in 2023? Okay, so just to take an even bigger step back, I mean, Israel, when then it's 1948 borders, which are the borders that are recognized by under international law, expanded in 1967, after the Six Day War was fought. So basically, Israel took Gaza from Egypt. They took the West Bank from Jordan, and they took a couple other territories.

55:03And the West Bank became under international law and occupied territory. And that's not just a euphemism or a phrase. So that actually has legal implications that Israel is ostensibly supposed to adhere to, based on the hate convention and the Geneva convention. And what those laws amount to is that this is a temporary occupation. Israel is temporarily administering the territory as it works out a security situation. With its military. With its military. It's a military occupation, exactly. And so what that means is that the Israeli government is not allowed to govern the West Bank. It has to actually, again, by international law, be governed by the Israeli military. And the other thing that it means is that Israel cannot do anything to put down permanent routes in the West Bank because it has to be temporary. And so when you hear people say the settlement project is fundamentally illegal, it's because the settlement project is about settling, you know, putting down routes in the West Bank

56:04and the entire project is illegal. Right. So the settlement movement starts right after 1967, basically. And the sort of religious tenants of it are that the West Bank is, you know, you've probably heard the settlers or Mike Huckabee, you know, maybe John Federman, I'm not sure, called Judea and Samaria. Right. What that refers to is the ancient kingdoms of Israel. So Samaria was the kingdom in the north. Judea was the kingdom in the south. And you know, if you talk to a settler or even Nenyahoo, I think, what they will say is Judea and Samaria has more biblical significance to Jews than any other part of either Israel, certainly Gaza, which is virtually no biblical significance to Jews. And so the reason I give that background is because there is a faction of people in Israel or of Jews around the world actually who care about the territory much more than they care about anything else. And a thing that you hear a lot from settlers,

57:05they'll say if Israel has the right to claim the land within its 1948 borders, based on the Jewish people's connection to the land, well, we have a much stronger connection here. The connection in Samaria is much stronger than it is in Tel Aviv. Right. So why don't we get to claim this? Right. And so the settlement movement basically is acting on that. And they are trying to build what, you know, they call facts on the ground, which is Jewish settlements across the West Bank to turn it into part of Israel, basically. And since the cobras of the tax, my understanding is that settler activity and violence has just ratcheted up and up and up, right? Yes, although, I mean, this violence actually started before October 7th, as in like this big escalation. So in the end of 2022, you know, there was a selection in Israel and then Yahoo forms this government with these far right factions that had been considered out of bounds even in Israeli politics, which is really far right. So you had guys like Idomar Ben Gavir in the Jewish power party and Bezile Smochrich in the religious Zionism party.

58:06Both of them are settlers themselves. They take ministerial positions immediately. And Smochrich, who is a completely messianic settler, who has been open about saying that his life's goal is to create Jewish sovereignty across Judea and Samaria and to to Barry, Palestinian state. What he does is he pulls up this sort of incredible sleight of hand where he installs himself inside the defense ministry. He just makes up a title, additional minister in the Ministry of Defense. And what he does is he clears out all of these career bureaucrats inside of the defense ministry who had managed the bureaucracy of the occupation. And he installs all of these settler ideologues. So it should be familiar to people who have called what Doge did or what, you know, RFK is done at helping human services. Like you clear out all the people who had, you know, done the basic put up the basic red tape that at least made it a little difficult to build a settlement. And he puts in all these people who are just rubber stamping every new request

59:08to build a new settlement or to authorize an outpost or to, you know, call in stateland or something like that. And simultaneously, Ben Gavir, who becomes a national security minister, directs the police to stop enforcing certain criminal laws against settlers. They remove what's called administrative detention against settlers. And they basically just give the settlers permission to run wild. And then the sort of last part of this is that the Israeli government and the IDF and the settlement movement begin working together like never before. And the settler attacks on Palestinian villages, and we can probably get into this more later, but they're not random. I mean, they are attacking villages that are in strategic spots that Israel wants to take over to cut off territorial continuity for Palestinians or to, you know, create a new road that connects to settlements. And so basically what I'm getting at is like the violence has spun out of control, but it is, it's not chaos. This is very much part of the central state project

1:00:09in the West Bank, which is to create Jewish sovereignty across the whole territory. And just according to the UN, the number of settler attacks has increased every year since the October 7th attacks in 2023. 2026 is on pace to have more than 2000 violent settler attacks in the West Bank alone. But despite that frequency and volume of violence, very few of these stories get reported in Western media or breakthrough. One incident that did break through in Western media in a big way was one incident you documented back in October of 2025. We're going to watch that footage, and then I want you to describe what's happening. Hey, hey, hey. We got a call from the office. Oh, my God. Come here, you're a fucking hitter. Hey. Oh, my God. Hey, hey. Hey. Hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey.

1:01:09Hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey. Hey, hey. So for folks listening and not watching, that was footage of this mass settler brutally beating an old woman in a group of activists. And then we see footage from far away of you, literally. Sprinting down a hill away from a mob. So what happened there? So this is an village called Termasaya in the West Bank, which is just east of Ramallah. And it's actually one of these villages that is made up of largely American citizens. And so it was the olive harvest, which is for a long time been one of the most violent times of year for Palestinians, because it's when settlers know exactly where they can find Palestinians away from their homes, and they can attack them while they're doing this thing that's very important to them. And so I went out with a group of farmers in Termasaya into their olive fields, which recently, settlers had built a new outpost there. Now what an outpost is is it is an Israeli settlement

1:02:10that does not even have Israel's approval yet. So it's basically a bunch of settlers have peeled off from an authorized settlement, planted a flag somewhere, and said, we live here now. And so it's like set up a camp, literally. Yes, literally they set up a couple tents and a shipping container, and they start living there. And by the way, they know the guy who started the settlement. His name is Amishov Mele. He's a real person with a real name, and a criminal history, frankly. Everybody knows who he is. So we go into the olive fields. Immediately we see this guy. Mele points a gun at us, threatens us, tells us to get out of the olive fields. We find another way in. And to make a long story short, we got trapped in these olive fields by settlers who had guns, and were threatening us. And this is Palestinian land. And a lot of it is privately owned by American citizens, actually, for whatever that's worth. I run into a group of IDF soldiers, and basically pleaded with them to help give us safe passage out of the olive fields. They agree. And then they lead us to come follow them.

1:03:13And then right as we reach me in Palestinian farmer, we reach where the Israeli soldiers are. They speed away. And that's when that mob of settlers appears. And it chased me through the olive fields. Then I documented the clip of that woman, Umsava being clubbed almost a death by a settler. All in all in that attack, I want to say five people were hospitalized, homes were torched. And how was the woman in that clip? She's, I believe she's in her 60s, and she's a grandmother. And she was out there picking olives. But I think what's really instructive about this incident, actually, is that it was one of the few settler attacks that on some level sort of broke through. It was covered in, I mean, it was a huge story in Israel proper, and was covered in the mainstream Western media to a certain extent. And I think it's because there's no way to spin a video of a masked settler clubbing an old woman. And so it actually created a PR crisis for Israel.

1:04:17And so what they did was they went out and they made an extraordinarily rare arrest of the guy who clubbed her. Now, the reason I bring this up is because I actually, these really authorities reached out to me about this because it was my footage. And I basically, what I said to them is, you know as well as I do that the guy you arrested is a foot soldier. This is a nobody. We know where he came from. He came from the outpost, which is in the middle of the term as aia alafields. You know where it is. You know the guy who's leading it. If you want to end the terror in this community, you have to dismantle that outpost. And these guys told me on the phone, just watch. That's what we're going to do. Fast forward to my visit in June. I went back to term asia. What had been a couple of shipping containers is now eight shipping containers. What had been maybe one family living there is now maybe a dozen families living there. Amishav Mellat is still patrolling the alafields with his gun. The IDF is there hanging out with them, praying, smoking cigarettes, breaking bread.

1:05:18And the people of term asia just now can't even consider trying to get to their land. And so again, it's like, I bring this up because the way settler violence is sometimes covered to the extent it's ever covered in the Western media, it looks like a couple of sort of feral misguided youth. And that's certainly how like Nenya... Bad apples. Describes and bad apples are randomly attacking a village. But the Amishav Mellat is a well-connected guy. He is working with high ranking members of the IDF and in the Knesset, in the Israeli government, to build this outpost here and push the Palestinians off their land to expand the Shiloh settlement, actually. And so every place where you're seeing settlers attacking Palestinians is a place where the powers that be in the Israeli government and the military and the settler movement have decided not just we want to go launch a pogrom against these people, but this is a strategic point for us to take in our effort to bury the IDF of a Palestinian state.

1:06:21And so that is why the violence is so widespread right now. It's because it's calculated and it's methodical and it's being designed at the highest levels of the Israeli government. I want to get you asking more about those connections to the government a second, but let me look, you're an American, you're a journalist, in the longer version of that video, you're yelling press, American press. One would assume that would afford you some protection from the settlers, not because they love Americans, but because they know that beating up an American is gonna lead to blowback and a call from the embassy to the Israeli government. And that could maybe lead to consequences, whereas beating up a Palestinian is almost never gonna lead to consequences. But just a couple days ago, a crew from NBC News was interviewing a Palestinian woman, a carful of settlers drives up, they jump out, they beat the shit out of all of them with clubs and then speed away. Did that surprise you? Does that reflect a new level of impunity? No, that didn't surprise me at all. These attacks are completely ubiquitous in the West Bank.

1:07:23The only unusual thing that happened there was that a mainstream outlet went to one of these villages that is seeing a lot of violence and they ran into the settler's who lived there and they got attacked. I mean, that's what happens. It's the same reason why Congressman Rokana had his bus hijacked when he was driving through the South Teabron Hills. These people came out and said, oh, it's a hoax, it was a setup, what a coincidence, like, no. Go drive through the South Teabron Hills. That place is run by the violent settlers and the military that supports them. So this is just what happens there. And as a journalist, I mean, like you said, I certainly am much more protected at every level than my Palestinian friends and my Palestinian colleagues, journalists, but I've been going to the West Bank for years now and each time I go, the settlers seem less and less inhibited in physically attacking me. And I'm visibly not Palestinian, and I'm usually speaking and they know I'm American and they just have no hesitation whatsoever in attacking me. And yes, it's because they know in all likelihood

1:08:24they will be celebrated and rewarded for this. And I'm not exaggerating, by the way, and this is covered in the Israeli press. So there's nothing conspiratorial about this. The settlers who are committing the violence are considered the tip of the spear for the Central Israeli State Project of ethnically cleansing the land from the river to the sea. And so they know that somebody like me who's there to report on what they're doing, I'm an enemy of the state. They consider me an enemy of the state and the people attacking me know that maybe if, you know, push comes to shove, Huckabee will have to condemn them or so and so will condemn them. But there's almost no chance that they're actually gonna go to jail or do any real jail time. And if anything, it's gonna elevate their status in the movement. Yeah, before I ask you about the government, is there any sort of data about Palestinian attacks on Jews in the West Bank? Because that's sort of the what about is them you always hear. Like what about violence or terrorism against Jewish communities in the West Bank in particular? Well, strictly from a numbers perspective, since October 7, 2023,

1:09:25the ratio of Palestinians who have been killed by Israelis to Israelis who have been killed by Palestinians is about 30 to one. So there's no comparison from a numbers perspective. I will also tell you that the communities in the West Bank that are most under attack, that are seeing the most violence, are the most defenseless ones. These are shepherding villages where there's no history of armed resistance, where there's barely even any infrastructure, let alone weapons, and they're being attacked because they are the easiest targets and the easiest ones to chase off the land. So anybody who claims that settler violence is a response to Palestinian violence, well, that was a case you would expect to see the settler violence going after places that do have some history of armed resistance, which exists in the West Bank, but that's not where it's happening. It's happening mostly in these completely defenseless bedwin villages, but the last thing I just want to say is about this is the numbers about the violence and the murder, obviously tell a story, but the violence against Palestinians in the West Bank

1:10:26goes so much deeper than that. I mean, these villages that we're talking about that are under attack, it's difficult to describe what the feeling of just pervasive terror and the air is like in these places, you can't go to sleep there because every single night settlers are coming in their ATVs, they're flying drones, they're firing guns, they're putting flash us, floodlights into homes, they're beating the crap out of people, sometimes they're killing people, they're burning down homes, they're burning homes with people still in them. Young men in these villages who were students or farmers or mechanics are now forced to be the sort of de facto security in these places, they don't have any weapons though, if they dare to throw a rock at a Palestinian, they might be killed by an Israeli soldier who's invading the village with the settlers and then called a terrorist for throwing a stone. And so like the terror just goes, the violence and terror and just suffocation of all life goes so deep that any question about who's doing the violence under whom,

1:11:27I mean, you can just go to those numbers, but also you have to look at who is suppocating the life out of whom in the West Bank. It's like day to day cruelty, violence all day. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Potta America's brought you by Sundays when it comes to pet food companies have a lot of cost-cutting measures and filler ingredients at their disposal, but Sundays made a deliberate choice, real human-grade Mish, no fillers, no synthetic vitamin premixes, nothing you can't pronounce, a vet developed it because she wanted food, she could actually stand behind. Sundays for dogs, recipes contains a variety percent, all natural meat, roughly twice the meat content of some leading frozen brands, plus nutrient-rich ingredients like kale, ginger, blueberries, gently air-dried rather than exposed to high heat, no fillers, no synthetic additives, no chemicals, just simple, complete nutrition. It doesn't look or smell like dog food, it looks like high-quality jerky, and it's a vet-founded and vet-formulated, created by Dr. Tori Waxman. To meet her high standards is both a veterinarian

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1:13:27They too. They do. Make the switch to Sundays. Go right now to Sundaysfordogs.com slash crooked and get 50% off your first order, or you can use code crooked at checkout. That's 50% off your first order. At Sundaysfordogs.com slash crooked, Sundaysfordogs.com slash crooked or use code crooked at checkout. Um, so like we were just saying, you know, when these stories do break through, when Israeli officials are forced to respond, it's some version of, you know, a couple bad apples. Mike Huckabee, the US ambassador to Israel, to his credit, I think he called some of these recent Israeli settlers terrorists, which they are. But he also kind of does the few bad apples shit. Like you said, though, anyone actually paying attention knows that the Israeli government is complicit in and supportive of these settlers. You've described them as the tip of the sphere for the state-backed annexation process. Could you tell us more about how the government is backing these attackers and sort of what the end game is?

1:14:28Sure. For starters, Bezal Smotrich, who I mentioned before, he is essentially running the military occupation right now, which is in charge of things like construction tenders and zoning permits and, you know, transportation and checkpoints and whatnot. So he's already controlling life in the West Bank. He is also the finance minister. And they have, they are diverting a disproportionate amount of tax revenue and funds into not just the settlements, but the illegal outposts. And so every dollar that goes into the Israeli government through taxes or, you know, aid or whatever it is, a disproportionate amount of that is going directly to building out roads that connect illegal outposts to one another. We're, it's giving them guns. And by the way, obviously, US taxpayer dollars are paying for this stuff too, for bulldozers. And so the Israeli government is supporting the settler movement on a very material level. But I think again, it goes to like, there was in fact a time,

1:15:28not that long ago, when there was some sort of, there was a little bit of real estate between the settlement movement and the government and the IDF. I mean, there were certainly like alliances across them. And there was a lot, there was political and ideological overlap. But a lot of the time the IDF and the settlers were fighting with each other because the IDF was ostensibly trying to, you know, maintain security with the... At least then shut down their settlements. Exactly. We'll shut down their legal outposts. Yeah, I guess so. Because they saw the settlers as troublemakers. Today in the West Bank, the head of the central command, which is basically the commander of the IDF in the West Bank, he's a settler himself. He appointed a guy. And again, what I'm saying now, this was first reported in the Israeli press. He appointed someone whose full-time job is to go to these illegal outposts to meet with the settler leaders there and discuss with them what their needs are in terms of funding, in terms of infrastructure, in terms of weapons, but also to pull out maps and talk about what are the places where they want to expand to.

1:16:30And what that means is these are the places that we're going to launch attacks. And then they launch these attacks over 60 Palestinian communities have actually been fully ethnically clandest chased off of their land since October 7th. Sometimes it makes a little bit of news, usually it doesn't. But then what happens when nobody's paying attention anymore is the Israeli government retroactively legalizes that outpost and it becomes a settlement. And so what that means is that the violent settlers, when I say they're the tip of the spear, they are quite literally the ones clearing the land, maybe occasionally they'll be condemned for PR purposes. But then when nobody's paying attention anymore, that now became a new settlement or a neighborhood of an existing settlement or something. So it is quite literally all part of the same project. And you're talking about Smotritch, there's another guy, it's Mark Ben Gavir, who just to be clear is part of the Israeli government. Bebe Nenyahoo did not win the last election outright. It's a parliamentary system. So we had to build a coalition of other parties

1:17:32to get enough votes in the Kinesid to rule. Ben Gavir is the National Security Minister. It's hard to describe how extreme he is without sounding hyperbolic. He used to have a photo on his wall of a guy named Baruch Goldstein, who is a terrorist who, I think he machined gun, something like 29 Palestinians. A Brooklyn Jew, who are like me. Yeah. He recently posted an AI video that we're going to show for you guys of himself sending Palestinians on train tracks into a prison. They go in fat, they come out crying and skinny. I think it's deliberately designed to look like a concentration camp. Absolutely. Let's watch that. So this is pretty sickening stuff.

1:18:42Israel's elections coming up in October. Everyone would like to see Netanyahu lose. We'd like to see this current coalition blown up so that people like Ben Gavir are no longer in power. However, the person most likely to replace Netanyahu as a guy named Gaudi Eisenkot, a lot of Israel supporters in the US who are mad about who are supporters of Israel but are mad about what happened in Gaza, for example. Talk about getting rid of Netanyahu, like it's a panacea, but the alternatives aren't great when it comes to the West Bank, right? Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah. I mean, the main opposition candidate is a guy named Gaudi Eisenkot who is considered by some to be the sort of centerist liberal savior of Israel. In fairness to him, he is less openly extreme than Netanyahu or Ben Gavir or Smotrich. But I guess I'll just give a couple quick anecdotes about him, the first one. Eisenkot developed the doctrine that the IDF uses,

1:19:44which basically states that if you apply disproportionate force to civilian infrastructure in enemy territories, then you will pressure the civilians there to pressure their government. That is why all of Gaza's civilian infrastructure was destroyed. I mean, it is because of that doctrine, basically. And so this is the guy who created that. The second thing I want to say about him is that earlier this year, he visited one of the most infamously violent outposts in the West Bank to meet with the leaders there in a clear signal that if the government changes hands, don't worry. Like you still got a man on the inside. There's no reason to visit a violent outpost, which again, is illegal, even under Israeli law. There's no reason to make that visit unless you are sending a clear political signal to them. And the third thing I'll say is, he had to come out time and time again and reiterate he is against the creation of a Palestinian state, against it. It will never happen under his watch, he says.

1:20:45And so, you know, like, again, I mean, I'm not going to pretend that there would be no difference between him and Nanyahu, or like if they replace the defense minister or the national security minister, whatever, but the fundamentals are still there. I mean, there's still a project to ethically cleanse the West Bank and to ethically cleanse Gaza. And parts of Lebanon, and you know, who knows where else between the river and the sea. And that is, there's nothing in the existing Israeli political system that shows that that could change. I do also want to quickly go back to the Ben Gibir thing real quick though. I mean, I think that video is instructive in some ways, because first of all, it's an accurate representation of what's happening. I mean, besides like how, you know, they show Palestinians being like, you know, overweight going in, I suppose that's just ridiculous. But there is an actual policy of starving Palestinians in Israeli prisons, a literal policy. Ben Gibir, when he came into power, he instructed the prisons to cut down on the food rations

1:21:49among many other things. To cut down on the number of beds they get, so some that many cells are overcrowded. There's policies of actual torture. The Israeli Supreme Court last year ruled that the Israeli prison system was not feeding their Palestinian prisoners enough to survive and instructed them to remedy that. And Ben Gibir just had no thanks. So there is literally a policy of starvation and there's over 10,000 Palestinian prisoners. Thousands of them are being held without charge. Many of them are children. And so, you know, including American children, including American children. The reason I bring this up is just because there is this tendency among, I think, liberal supporters of Israel to describe Ben Gibir as a sort of fringe figure. And what I always come back to is that Nick Kristoff's story, Abed in the New York Times about what's happening in these really prisons, about rape and sexual assault in Israeli prisons. And the same people that are willing to condemn Ben Gibir and condemn videos like that, called that blood libel, accused Kristoff of blood libel.

1:22:50And they acted completely incredulous that something like that could happen in Israeli prison. And so it's kind of like what you said. This guy is in charge. Ben Gibir runs the prison system. He runs the police force. He's in charge of law and order in Israel and the occupied territories. And so if you can see a video like that and condemn it, you really need to take that next step and say, with his power, what has he actually done? Besides what he's showing us right here in this video. And you give him rifles. We are videos of him handing out like a force that are being handed to settlers in the West Bank. They're being used to kill Americans among others. I'm sure the people who are listening to this who are frustrated and feel like this is like two liberals coming down hard on Israel. And they feel like there's maybe too much of this in the conversation. And I just want to point out that the New York Times recently featured a lot of top retired Israeli military officials who went to the West Bank and were just horrified by what they saw.

1:23:51The headline was, these generals fought for Israel. And now they see Jewish terrorism as the threat. A retired major general says, quote, what the settlers are doing here is the real threat to Israel. This is more concerning to me than Iran, Gaza, or Lebanon. Another says this ethnic cleansing to put it simply a retired Air Force general says, once a society behaves this way, that society is doomed, even compared the efforts to Nazi era efforts to erase the Jewish people. If you or I made those comments, Jasper, like the ADL. Well, that is a direct, but to those Israeli generals, that is a direct violation of the IHRA, definition of anti-Semitism to compare Israel to Nazis. And so I'm waiting for Jonathan Greenblatt and the ADL to come out and condemn these Israeli generals for saying those things. But no, I mean, listen, there is no other side of this story of what's happening in the West Bank. They're just simply isn't. Anybody who is still defending the settlement movement or the IDF there, or just Israel's policy in the West Bank, you're just not looking at what's actually

1:24:53happening. When you have IDF generals in that article, like lists their accomplishments of like the extreme violence as the phrase is that they committed in the West Bank in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Syria, and all these places, if those people are coming out and saying it, then I mean, it's just, again, it's like, as far as I'm concerned, yeah, there's just no argument anymore that this is not happening. And the most hawkish hawks. The most hawkish hawks are even more than Iran. And I do want to say that, like, you know, the way this is being talked about among a lot of Israelis, including these guys, is that it's a threat to Israel. It's a huge PR issue for Israel, first of all. These videos, you know, of Palestinians being attacked by settlers, it looks bad for Israel, it's creating all this bad press. So they recognize that it's a problem for Israel, but you don't hear nearly enough of this talking about the principal issue here, which is a Palestinian who are being violently attacked and having their homestone and whatnot. And so I just, I want to point that out. Yeah, in the hope for a Palestinian state.

1:25:53So look, you know, you and I have talked on, positive world, my foreign policy show a couple times. We've talked about your reporting on the show more often than that. But I wanted to have this conversation on this show, the more kind of domestic political show, because I think I hope that these issues are gonna be a big part of the 2028 Democratic primary. In general, I think we all should be talking about how what's happening is existential and threat to, any hope of a Palestinian state or a two state solution. I know you're a journalist, you're not like a policy white paper guy, but are there Democrats out there proposing ideas that you think are good or ideas that you wish they would propose or implement? I'm gonna answer that question a little bit differently. There are Democrats who are saying some things that I think are positive. Chris Van Hollen being, I think the sort of the lead one, and are talking more openly about like what is happening in the West Bank and in Gaza and whatnot.

1:26:55And you know, like it's good to see a shift in that direction. I think that there is still a refusal to face the reality of what's happening, because it is politically inconvenient. And let me give you like one specific example of that. It's very easy for a Democrat to come out and say, Palestinians should have a right to live in dignity. It's very easy to condemn settler violence. There's nothing hard about that for a Democrat to do. It's much more difficult to say these Palestinians who are being attacked by armed settlers, how are they going to defend themselves? How are you, when you are in a Palestinian community and you have settlers with machine guns and a military behind them coming into the village, burning their homes, killing their people, attacking them, how are they supposed to defend themselves? And I think the question about cutting off military aid to Israel, I think I'm glad that that has sort of been mainstreamed

1:27:57or at least like the Overton window has shifted on it. But the next question becomes, how are the Palestinians supposed to defend themselves? And I would just like to hear that talked about by Democratic politicians. I think the second thing is like, I just, I can't, I can't bear to hear them talk about a two-state solution anymore. Or if you're going to talk about a two-state solution, this is basically what I'm asking of Democratic politicians. You are talking about creating a Palestinian state, creating enough territory in the West Bank for Palestinians to have an actual state. The Israeli government from the left to the right is against that. The Israeli military is directly fighting against that. The settlers are certainly against it. So at that point, if you're going to create a Palestinian state there, you're going to war with Israel. You are literally, you have to go to war with Israel to create a Palestinian state. And so if you are talking about a two-state solution, you have to also explain your plan for going to war with Israel to create that state.

1:28:57But in lieu of that, I think that they should be talking, to the extent they're talking about solutions at all, beyond things like a full arms embargo, is a one-state solution. Because what you have right now is a single state in apartheid state. And all you got to do is say, all these people living under occupation are now citizens too. And then you can actually have a democracy. It won't be a Jewish state anymore, but it'll be a democracy. And it'll have Jewish people and Muslims and Christians living there. But you cannot have both a, I mean, look, the reality is, it is not with the situation as it is today where there is no possibility of creating an actual Palestinian state there. It can't be both the Jewish state and a democracy, right? I mean, it is a democracy when you give everybody the right to vote, and then it is no longer a majority Jewish state. And so that's just a reality that politicians have to reckon with. And again, nobody is talking about

1:29:59killing all the Jews there, anything insane like that. We're talking about just giving equal rights to everybody who lives there. Well, yeah, I mean, I think what you're doing here is kind of popping bubbles and the fictions that are still apart, such as central part of the talking points, right? Like I think in reality, there is no way for innocent villagers to defend themselves against a well-armed settler movement and the idea. So the conversation sort of has to be what can the international community do to put structures in place to defend them, whether it's like the UN or something. But it also taught me, I mean, it's also like, when politicians talk about a Palestinian state, even the, you know, the Stancelley pro-Palestine ones say, well, it'll be a demilitarized state. Why? Why should the Palestinians be demilitarized when they are being literally killed every single day? I mean, that like the double standard there is just, it's staggering. And I just think that like the way, I mean, listen, a Palestinian with a gun is considered a terrorist to the mainstream media and to politicians. Like it doesn't matter how they got that gun. It doesn't matter what they're using in four

1:31:01if it's for self-defense or whatever, they're just considered a terrorist. And that needs to change. I mean, and again, like, I'm not prescribing solutions here, but I want to say, if you can acknowledge that there are terrorists roaming the West Bank, Jewish terrorists roaming the West Bank, terrorizing communities, killing people, how do you propose those people protect themselves? And it's up to you how you wanna talk about doing that. But I would like to see that reality acknowledged as opposed to politicians just saying the sort of like easy basic things about. Two states living side by side. Yeah, and you know, you know, condemning the violent settlers and condemning Smotritch and Ben Gavirin, blah, blah, blah. It's like, it's a little bigger than that. Oh, first of all, I mean, I think we're both getting, like moving past kind of the broken conversation of a decade ago, those talking points were kind of not operative for a very long time, even four October, seven, frankly. And also, I think, you know, the reality of, the idea that you would forcibly expel hundreds of thousands of settlers from the West Bank would lead to a massive military conflict.

1:32:02There would be all sorts of resistance from within the Israeli government. So it seems very unlikely to happen. So what's the next thing that we're talking about? I think it's kind of the point we're both getting at here. Last question for you. You are your Jewish, a lot of Jewish Americans, friends, family, mine, grew up hearing a very different story about Israel than the one, you know, we've been telling for the last 40 minutes. How does it feel for you to go the West Bank to witness this occupation and oppression, like kind of what part of your own upbringing and religion do you kind of bring to this work? Well, I mean, first I want to say that it's not fair that because I'm Jewish, my voice, like it carries more weight to some people. I mean, everything that I'm reporting has been reported on by Palestinians for much longer than I've been doing it. And I just want to sort of establish that. Now, to your question, I mean, I'm 100% Jewish, despite what many people online like to say about me. What do they say? They just say you're a fake Jew, you're a copo, you're a Nazi, you're a traitor, you're a ham sandwich, blah, blah, blah.

1:33:02She even must tweeting about genetic makeup today. I did see that. Yeah, that's nothing could go wrong there. Right, right. She was a genius. Yeah, that's always a good game to go into. So my, and you know, I'm Jewish, but also my, on my mom's side, my grandparents escaped the Holocaust. Most of my mom's mother's family was exterminated. My mom's dad came from, they escaped the Russian pogroms. On my dad's side, his parents lived in Iraq in Baghdad. They were Jews in Baghdad for generations. And they had to leave when there was a rise in anti-Semitism as well. So the point I'm making is just that like I grew up in a house that was Jewish and that had a very real sense of deadly anti-Semitism. As far as like how our Jewishness manifested, I think it was in two main ways. The first one was questioning and challenging everything. And that includes the stories we heard about the Jewish state

1:34:03and some difficult questions about that. And it also taught me, you know, the expression that you hear more now, which is never again means never again for anyone. And at the end of the day, in other words, say that is like a valuing human life. And you know, when I go to the West Bank, the reality is people know I'm Jewish. I mean, I tell people and they just know at this point. And it is the Palestinians who are feeding me and taking me into their homes and protecting me. And it is Jewish settlers and soldiers who are trying to kill me. And it does sort of beg the question about what sort of Jewishness this is. You know, these Israelis who are trying to kill me are practicing. The last thing I want to say about this though is that I think that as you know, speaking as Jewish American again, who had a bar mitzvah, who has been Jewish my whole life since people like to say you're an asaju, who still goes to synagogue,

1:35:05it is we are long overdue as Jewish Americans to have a reckoning with what our institutions and our organizations and our synagogues have facilitated and enabled. And you know, on one level, that is just the sort of unwavering support that the institutions have given to Israel in the way they have defended Israel through a genocide, through ethnic cleansing, through all these things. But it actually goes beyond that. It goes to, I mean frankly, material support for terror. And so what I'm talking about here is things like the Jewish National Fund, which is the organization that provides those little blue tin sedaka boxes in synagogues where people put in their loose change. And then that money goes to Israel. It's in thousands of synagogues across the country. A lot of that money goes to bringing non-native invasive trees into Israel, which service basically, they're planting trees that are basically like serving as tender for forest fires over there. That's neither here nor there. Great.

1:36:05Another place that money has gone, this came out earlier this year, was that money was going directly to an organization that is training the hilltop youth, the most violent settlers in the West Bank, training them to be little foot soldiers, little child soldiers in the West Bank attack and Palestinians. This was reported in the times of Israel. So again, you are talking about thousands of synagogues across the country who are providing material support for terror against Palestinians. And I'm not suggesting that every, you know, like my Jewish family, every Jewish person knows this is happening on a material level. But I think it is pastime for people to take a close look at not just what the Jewish institutions represent, but what they are actually supporting and ask yourself, is this what being Jewish is? Is this what it's supposed to be? Is this valuing human life? And I mean, frankly, it's upsetting. It's really upsetting. And the way I deal with it is by doing the work that I do. And by talking about things like this.

1:37:06And you know, I refuse to accept that the religion is irredeemable or anything. And I'm not suggesting anything like that, but this is what the institutions are supporting. And listen, Jonathan Grieboit at the ADL, he's called you an anti-Semite, right? Oh, yeah. Because I thought that yeah, I would drag this into the world. So it's just like it's so these institutions, these Jewish institutions are so corrupt and broken. And it goes so deep, really encourage Jewish Americans to think more deeply about this and think about like, what does it mean to you to be Jewish? What do you want to support? What do you want to represent? And yeah, I hope people ask those questions. Well, you're reporting on what's happening in the West Bank has been invaluable to me. And I think it would be great if folks would check it out. Again, go to Sub-Sack. It's Infinite Jazz, One Z, Infinite Jazz. If you get a paid subscription, you can pay to fund Jasper's next trip to the West Bank. So thanks for coming in. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

1:38:06Appreciate it. Thanks to Jasper and Nathaniel for coming on the show. Love it. We'll be back on Sunday with a conversation with the host of Crookhead's new podcast, Still Counting, which brings back the voices of 538 and will be out Wednesday evenings starting September 9th. Have a good week, everyone. Bye, everyone. Fucking steal my lines here at the end. Pods in America is a Crookhead media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Ferris Safari with Reed Charlene, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Heffko, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, David Tolls, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Single. Our staff is probably unionized with the writer's guild of America East.