Retsef Levi was early, not wrong on COVID vaccines

0:00We've learned anything from these past couple of years. My fellow Americans, it's that personal medical freedom and liberty are in crisis. America, our love, close brings together the top experts in healthcare-related fields to keep you a beat ahead. Do listen to America's Outlaw of Pulse Radio on the I part radio network. I'm the America Outlaw of Apps for Apple Android and Alexa. Don't miss a moment on the 7th Friday at 5 p.m. Eastern. I'm Dr. Wanda Bock here on Pack Nits. It's born of patients and give you action insights into the world of medicine and health. I'm Dr. Randall Bock in February 2023. I interviewed MIT professor Retseth Levy about his call to suspend COVID-19 vaccination because the safety evidence in the longer supported continuing it. The interview was in Cindy area at the time. It wasn't to me, mind you, but YouTube effectively

1:00killed my channel and LinkedIn expelled me. Yet within weeks, the WHO, the World Health Organization placed healthy children at adolescents in its low priority vaccination group echoing what Retseth Levy had said. In 2025, the Secretary of Health and Human Services appointed Levy to be the CDC's advisory committee on immunization practices ACP, ACIP on that board along with Dr. Robert Malone. Three and a half years later, this interview sounds less like forbidden misinformation and more like an early warning. Here's MIT professor Retseth Levy. Yes, I'm a faculty at the MIT and I my PhDs in the operations research and over the years I've been working on the application of advanced analytics to and risk management approaches to different areas, but particularly a lot of work with health systems with in the context of

2:00manufacturing of biological drugs and issues related to work in safety in this context and a lot of work also on food and agriculture systems. Again, thinking about other things, thinking a lot about risk management and how you can use data to assess risk and mitigate risk. And since the pandemic has started, I've been working quite extensively in this area as well, both as part of my research, but also supporting different governments, state governments here in the US, as well as some support to the government and some politicians in Israel. And one of the things, for example, that I've been working on was to think about the safety protocols of nursing homes in Massachusetts. So I've been thinking about different aspects of risk management and how you can use data and operationalize use data to operationalize effective risk management

3:02and safety approaches. Okay, so that's a mouthful. So how did it come down and what's been kind of on your mind or occupying you lately? I know you've been some thoughts on your part about the efficacy or safety of vaccines. How did the process work for you and how are your thoughts kind of involved or not involved over time? Very early on from the start of the pandemic, I was very concerned that the policies of universal lockdowns and that were employed were very harmful and I was thinking very strongly that we should have a much more risk-based approach and really consider the fact that the COVID-19 virus is posing a great risk to some populations, specifically all people and people with serious comorbidities, but on the other hand, it was very little risk if in fact

4:07maybe no risk to very young people or healthy people and definitely for children. So that was something that I was concerned about from the very beginning when the vaccines came about, I was surprised to be honest, I was based on what I know from working with quite a few pharmaceutical companies and having some sense about what the development phases and manufacturing phases of these type of drugs, I was bearing with people that there's no way this can be done before the end of 2021 and I was surprised that wow this is kind of remarkable, but to be honest, my first gut feeling or gut reaction was no way, if that was approved by the FDA, it cannot be that bad, right? Like okay, so maybe it's not completely matching what we usually do, but probably the compromises are not very significant. As time elapsed and both the discussions about the booster

5:14started and also the first data about myocarditis started to emerge, I became more and more concerned that something is not right here, that when you think about, and I'm really kind of someone that thinking about systems and complex systems, so one thing that I think that I usually ask myself is okay, what is the paradigm of safety here and what is the paradigm of efficacy here, right? And I think that over the last two years, starting maybe April 2021 and going forward, I became more and more concerned that the advertised and promised paradigms of what efficacy and safety of these vaccines have completely collapsed and they don't basically, they don't hold true to what was promised and let me maybe get into the details. So when we think about the efficacy paradigm, right? I

6:21think that there was a very big push at the beginning that everybody should be vaccinated, both high risk people and low risk people, under the premise that these vaccines are going to stop infections and stop the virus and that we will get what was called vaccine-induced herd immunity. I think that by now it's clear that that's been a false profit, right? So you know by now that everybody got infected and that these vaccines are not stopping infection, in fact, if you, you know, now, after I analyze that, the fact of the matter that was never a real hope for these vaccines to stop infection because they are basically generating antibodies in the blood and not in the eukus and we know that if you don't do the

7:22latter, you're probably not going to stop the virus. The guy you probably heard of Dr. Fauci just co-signed a paper to that effect was out in January, I guess, more or less. Okay, so now what was the other fundamental idea of the efficacy premises was, oh, this is such a fast rapid technology that we would be able to catch up with the variance of the virus as the end of the day, right? We know now that that thing worked out and we are constantly falling behind the virus, the virus is changing far, far faster than what we, what we are able to, in the pace by which we are able to update the vaccine and also just the premise of getting a vaccine every four months is, it's not something I think that that was not the conversation to when we started the conversations about these vaccines. Now, so now we're

8:28coming to a very, you know, the last resort on efficacy saying, hey, these vaccines prevent severe illness and death. And I think the fact of the matter is that we never, not only that we, this was never shown to, to be the case, but in fact, if what I consider a pivotal paper study that was published in the journal vaccines by Freeman et al, re-analyzed the clinical trials of what they're not in Pfizer, they're not labectcies. And which is the best, the highest quality data that we have randomized control experiments, right? And when they analyzed the number of serious health events, that means that's hospitalization and life-changing medical events from a very well-defined list that actually the work of the organization set up. So what they did is

9:29that they took that list and they analyzed how many events of this type happened in the vaccine arm and the placebo arm, right? And unlike what you would hope, not only that the number of events in the vaccine arm was, were not lower, it was not lower than the placebo arm. In fact, it was actually statistically significantly higher. So in fact, what they concluded is that on every 800 vaccine is, you are likely to see one more serious event like that, serious health, hopefully, event like that. So what we end up now is with the prediction from the clinical trials that for some reason was not shared and was basically ignored, that if you are going to launch these vaccines to the overall population, that is represented in the kick-out-try population, right? You are likely to see more harm than the benefits, right? So that leads me to the safety paradigm of the

10:32of the vaccine. And a second I will talk about that, I talk about that. But fast forward two years from when these vaccines were launched, we actually see staggering population level indicators that are consistent with this prediction. We see tremendous excess mortality in the US, in Europe, in many highly vaccinated countries. Three years of continuous increase in all kinds of mortality that is actually spanning all age groups, including the younger ages, including the working ages. And this is not just excess that, this is also high rates, dramatic increase in high rates of disability, and other indicators that are very concerning because many of them, if not all of them, have temporal correlation with the vaccination programs. Now, again, this is not a proof by several. When I connect that with the prediction from the clinical trials and what I see now,

11:34that's very, very concerning, right? So that's kind of a high level view. One thing that I've done, one piece of research that I've done, once we started to hear about myocarditis was basically to read a little bit about this condition. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart. And it's, in fact, when you read about this, there are decades of research about this condition. You find out that it's very hard to diagnose a myocarditis. In fact, in many cases, people may not even know that they have an inflammation of the heart. They may not have any symptom. And in those cases, if the person's heart was harmed and the person is not aware of that, and the person goes about their life and maybe goes, goes working out, running, this is often a reason, a primary reason. It's a primary reason for sudden fit out of the hospital, especially of young people. And at the time, you know, I'm talking about April, April mid-2021,

12:42we knew that the vaccine is in, it can cause myocarditis and there were also some indications that the COVID-19 infections can cause myocarditis. So what I wanted to see is whether we see in EMS called data, whether I'm going to see a signal of an increase in out of hospital adverse events. Because if you think about that, most of the adverse events out of their hospitals, or debt or serious cardiac arrest, or events like that are evolving and ambulance. So we actually did this study in Israel and we looked on two and a half years from 2019 throughout the middle of 2021. Israel was one of the first countries to start the vaccination program at the end of 2020. And most of the people were vaccinated at the early part of the first quarter of 2021. And when we actually looked on the number of cause of Israel has a

13:45national service, so you actually can get access to all the cause. When we looked on the number of cause with the cardiac arrest diagnosis based on the diagnosis of the EMS teams in the field, we detected an increase of 25% of the number of cardiac arrest calls among the ages 16 to 39. And a smaller increase among the older ages. So that was a very concerning because we saw that increase only at the period of time when vaccination started. Like when COVID happened over 2020, we actually saw a decrease compared to 2020 in 19. Then this dramatic increase of cardiac arrest calls in 2021. And we also did some more analysis that again, cannot prove any causal mechanism, right? Because the underlying cause of such an increase could be very complex because they can involve the vaccines, they can involve the infections, they can involve some interactions between the vaccines and the infection, they can involve other

14:49reasons. But nevertheless, that leads you very, very concerned. And we actually call what the Ministry of Health and other health authorities to investigate very thoroughly what is happening based on individual level data that will take into account the vaccine vaccination status and the infection status of the individuals that are affected. And also maybe use autopsies, right? Of course, this was dismissed and was not followed through. And since then, we actually see similar data in many other countries, like Scotland, the UK, in Australia. But we also see even more concerning data. One of the things that actually the FDA itself was concerned about is what again, what I call satclinical myoparditis. This is again, the scenario when you have myoparditis, but you don't have very visible symptoms, you may have no symptoms at all, very vague symptoms. And the FDA actually asked Moderna and Pfizer to conduct

15:49studies among children and young people post approval of the vaccine in August 2021. And in fact, there were supposed to report back about the results of these studies just this month in February 2023. And they just got like another six months to report. So that's kind of what's going on. But two teams, two research teams in Thailand and Switzerland did actually quite a good study. They they tested people hard before and after receiving the vaccine. So they test all the hard indicators just before you get the vaccine and just before you just after you go the vaccine and compare for each individual, the baseline compared to what happened after the vaccination, both for the Thailand one was the second dose of the vaccine and the Switzerland one was the booster. And in both cases, they found dramatic impact of cardiovascular indicators and in particular, they found in one in 30, one in 50 elevated troponine, which is the number one indicator to damage

16:55in the harm muscles. This is the this is the number one test that you you you're going to have if you have a heart attack, they're going to test you for a elevated elevated troponine to see if your heart is being damaged your muscle, your heart is being damaged. So this is this is a staggering this is a staggering rate like when people say that my hypothesis rare, even the clinical rates we're talking about in the highest risk population, which are young people, are young males, is one to two thousand five hundred one in five thousand people have to understand this is very high. We took vaccines of the market for one bad event per one hundred thousand or per one one per ten thousand. We kind of took the immediately off the market. Here we're talking about even the clinical rates are one to two thousand five hundred that's already very high, but now we are talking about maybe one in 50 one in 30. And every time you take this vaccine, every dose, you're rolling a it's basically a Russian roulette where you're going to where you're going to be damaging your heart and then who knows what the long term implications are.

17:59Brett Safflevy has laid out the cardiac safety signals that prompted his calls to stop the COVID-19 vaccination program, especially for kids. After the break, we examined what those signals meant and why health authorities refuse to investigate them adequately. I'm Dr. Rando Bach. You're listening to America. I'll pulse always be the head. Feeling off since COVID, try the wellness company Spike Detox trio packed with natto kinase, bromelain, and turmeric to help boost your immune system and fight off harmful spike proteins bounce back with energy and clarity. Go to TWC.health-forward-slash-outloud and use promo code out loud for 20% off your first order. You wouldn't go a day without brushing your teeth or washing your hands. What about washing your nose? I mean your nose does filter the air you breathe air loaded with bacteria, viruses, and irritants. Make nasal hygiene part of your routine with clear. No messy bottles to fill, no drowning sensation. Clear is a natural drug-free sailing with the added benefit of xyletal, which blocks bacterial and viral adhesion. Available in stores and online at clear.com. That is x-lear.com.

19:23Now is our time, my fellow Americans, America Out Loud.News, Liberty, and Justice for All. I'm Dr. Rando Bach, back with MIT professor at Seth Levy. We continue with the autopsy evidence, the behavior of the mRNA platform inside the body, and suppression of legitimate scientific questions. Now just to complete the picture, there are now multiple autopsies that study space on autopsies, conducted autopsies on people that died shortly after being vaccinated. And they find in a high percentage of them indications of inflammation of the heart that can be consistent with the molecular diet space on the vaccine. Because for some of them they actually find antibodies against the spike, which is part of the vaccine. But they also don't find antibodies

20:23against other parts of the virus, which basically tells you that it has to be the vaccine, because the vaccine only has the point of the spike. Now, so when I put all of these together, this is something unprecedented that you will continue even such evidence and not stop immediately, especially when we are talking about a population that has zero risk for COVID. And now most of the population is already exposed, and the Omicron, as you probably know, is a much minor version of the virus. So, going forward, continue to going forward at this point, since like really, really, really hard to explain, and really against every basic principles of first do no harm, right, that we've had. Now, one thing that people have to understand, this is just one mechanism of harm. And again, now I want to go back to the very high level system level paradigm

21:30of safety of these vaccines, because these vaccines, they are called vaccines, but they are, they work very differently than traditional vaccines, right, traditional vaccines, they basically take the virus that you want to protect against and show you the body either at bed or at any way, at least at a virus. So, they stimulate your immune system just like it would be stimulated if you would be exposed to the virus itself, right. What is happening in the mRNA vaccines, that they are being injected into your muscle cells, with the code that teaches these cells to produce inside the cell, right, on the membrane of the cell, the spike protein, or parts of the spike of the cell, with some modifications. And basically, the hope is that the body, the body will see that as a foreign body, we learn how to develop antibodies to that and we'll be ready for that.

22:32What is the problem? The problem is that the assumption was that this is injected locally into your muscle in the shoulder and then stays there and clears away, right. However, we know that that's not the case in a relatively high number of cases. There are multiple studies now that found what the mRNA, the entire package that kind of is being put around the RNA code to keep it stable, as well as spike protein produced expressed in cells, in the body of people way after they were vaccinated, in fact, even months after they were vaccinated. So if that if that fundamental assumption that it doesn't stay in the body, in locally in the muscle and clears away, that's not true anymore. And now we are, we can have people

23:36going around with mRNA in their body and maybe cells that produce spike in their body. That can explain the range of side effects that we see people that are really covering every organ system, neurological problems, muscle problems, auto-mure problems because the body now is viewing foreign material, foreign bodies inside its own cells and it's going to attack it, right. That's kind of what the body is trying to do. And this is very, very concerning. So this is you know people say, oh, this paper doesn't prove it and that paper doesn't prove it, yes, it's not one paper, it's not one piece of evidence. But you have to look on the overall evidence and you also have to look on what was the systematic paradigm of this vaccine safety. And is it being supported by the data that you see? And if it's not supported by the data that I see as a safety person, as someone that from age of 18, I'm essentially working and thinking about

24:37how do you think about safety or high risk activities, how you understand the signals from the environment to tell you whether you're okay or not. And I think that we are now at the stage where there is a mounting evidence that we are not okay, that actually doesn't go right direction. I agree with you completely. There's been so much, there's a concept, well, I'll leave it to you of the print capacity, which is begging the question, so much of what has been put in front of us, it has false assumptions within the way that it's presented. You know, the first year we were told to lock down, as if you went scuba diving with a mosquito net instead of something structural, and you could somehow, you know, not get wet. You know, the masks were never appropriate. Lockdowns don't stop viruses. We're all rebreathing the same air with a mask without. So everything was kind of set in place. I know you posted that Woody Harrelson video from Saturday Log, which was sort of for its SNL and admission against interest. I mean, he's typically from the left,

25:39and I don't think they expected his... Nobody laughed if you saw that. There was an embarrassing silence, upward silence, right? Because New Yorkers, you know, have totally purchased into this, and it's a silence, but, you know, for people who are unaware of, they should go watch it, and he does it better than I, he does a better Woody Harrelson than I do, but basically said, imagine a drug cartel that locked you in your house until you go buy their drug. And everything was pretty much arranged to that purpose. You know, there was no reason in 2020 not to be able to try medications. I mean, Rogaine... Early, early, early treatment. That's the basic stuff that we do for any virus, right? For any respiratory virus. We have all kinds of indications like Rogaine and Viagra, which had original different purposes, and then they were repurposed when the other uses were found. So there was no reason to think that Iver Mechner, which had had antiviral activity, and actually one, it's invented the Nobel Prize a couple decades prior. It's a horse, it's a horse. It's FDA approved, safe, and HCQ, the same thing. There's no

26:44reason not to try those things, even if they don't work. And I'm not gnaustic on whether they do work or not. I'm not here to promote them per se, but in the absence of anything else, you know, certainly you have the right to try. And that was actually a medical build under the Trump administration, but for cancer patients, you have nothing else going, the right to try something. The other thing seemed to be geared towards sitting there, waiting, holding your breath, and then finally you feel as if you rescued. You know, as if you were in a house on fire, and you can't open the windows, you can't leave, you can't do this, and finally the fireman come and rescue you're like so grateful for them. But guess what? You know, you might have been able to just open the door and leave in the first place. And those options were taken away from people, and it was acidiously done. It's really sad. And I, you know, totally on board with what you say, you know, I don't want to spend too much time here, but I was literally yelled at at my tennis club. A guy was an MD and an MPH. He screamed at me because I was talking with a mother about when vaccines were already had been out for a while, and she was debating whether to give it to her child. And I said, well, you know, children, you know, basically stuff we've already

27:45spoken about. And he came, he wasn't even part of this conversation. He came in, Eve's dropped and screamed at me like literally, like jumping up and down, it's kind of screaming, that I was, you know, killing people, blah, blah, blah. And so I tried to take this offline. I got them in the side room and we exchanged some emails, and he said, well, you know, COVID-19 caused more and more impregnative stuff. I said, well, that may or may not be true. But at point, the fact, if you're giving it to people who have already had COVID-19, you know, young people, then, and if you, what you say is right, let's stipulate, you're right. Then why would you re-expose them to the same bad thing? That makes no sense. And so most of these people, why don't you antibody test people first? And so, Eric, there was no stratification. It was all kind of one-size-fits-all. And everything, as you're kind of, you're, you're, you're quite decent, you know, military intelligence and analytics were correct throughout. I mean, I don't think, most of the good stuff that's come out of this has not been from people who are medically credentialed. Mark, I want to say maybe two talks about relating to what just said. So one thing that

28:52I tell people all the time that I, they tell you are deviating from the narrative. I say, you know, I'm mainstream. I'm speaking the mainstream up to three years ago. Electricity meant risk-based, never do lockdowns when you have respiratory virus, never give a vaccine to not the high-risk population. First, do no harm, right? You know, monitor, monitor very carefully, be willing to change course if you see that the, you know, your assumption is not correct. I think that the people that deviated and became very extreme, and I think you kind of pointed out how ridiculous this was at times, were actually the people that are now calling themselves the narrative on the mainstream, in the mainstream. They're not mainstream. They may call themselves mainstream, but sorry, we and people, you know, I think you interview other people on your show, I actually think that we are the mainstream. They are extreme. We are not extreme. We are representing the balance, risk-based approach that we would be prepared. These are the textbooks. A lot of what I'm saying is

29:57not like, oh, I'm not the genius to think about it. This is just like, I'm just reading the textbooks of what we've known forever, and I'm just saying it back to people, right? And the, I think that I wanted to kind of relate to that, and I think that that's kind of was a lesson to me. Is how much fear, you know, how powerful fear is? Once you inject the fear in the heart of people, it shuts down logic, it shuts down ethics, it shuts down empathy, and I think, you know, I'm working with a lot of doctors over 17 years, and I really think that most doctors are good people that really want to help and save their patients, but people have to understand, most doctors are such in such, they're working in such a hard environment, like very stressful environment. They don't have the time to read all the literature. They are being told, this is the algorithm, and like, you know, and... Well, I think that they, and usually they don't have reasons to believe

31:02that they are being told the wrong thing. Yeah. But I think that historically, we, especially when we didn't have a protocol that was validated, we actually relied on the common wisdom, the collective wisdom of doctors trying and experimenting and doing sensible things based on their best judgment to come up with best practices. That best practices usually evolve in medicine from people trying different things, and the best practices win at the end because they have the best outcomes. For some reason, in the last three years, we adopted a very centralized to the extreme, not only that we try to impose forces, we actually going after people that are asking questions and experimenting, we're going after them just for the reason that they try, not even regardless of whether they were successful or not. So I think that I want to highlight

32:02here the process that I think medicine has evolved over the years through the collective wisdom that emerged from the frontline experience of people. It was never like one source of kind of wisdom, centralized source of wisdom that kind of, oh, yeah, we're going to tell you how to do that. It's the contrary, it's actually a root-grass knowledge that is coming from frontline and being kind of integrated over a year and some experimentation. And if the moment where you say, okay, this is a clear evidence, this is the best practice. That's the way science works generally. Science is too big. But in medicine in particular, I just want to emphasize the people. Absolutely. We talk to the doctors for 30 years. The art of medicine where you're supposed to work on your clinical judgment, your own kind of receptacle, the way you filter things and so forth. And science has always been two things. There's a scientific body, knowledge is also a scientific process of validation. And historically, you know, sometimes it's hard to do things medically because, you know, one person has a rash, another person has a rash, it's the same rash, they have the same physiology. It's very difficult to do these kind of things. And so we've relied on the literature and kind of an accretion of knowledge

33:04through process. And talking to the patient as well. So the other part of this is that it's really the doctor and the patient's working together to help the patients to get better. And that interaction leads insights, failures, successes and kind of this collective wisdom is what kind of creates the advancements in medicine. Yeah. But I think you're on to something there. I would add two things. One is that in this particular case, you know, it's been socialized. When I say that, I don't mean socialized medicine per se. I mean, I mean, the focus away from the individual to the social group. So it was collectivized. I guess it might be a better word, kind of a Soviet kind of word. That medical care was decided that it's not so much you. It's like what you are doing for other people. I get this. If this were a zombie apocalypse, where our horrible smallpox are maybe, you know, anthrax by my respiratory vector or something like that, that's genuinely horrible. I think, you know, we can make the argument that one's actions do impede or affect another. But in this particular case, there are clearly huge blocks of population that had nothing going on.

34:07So this was known early on from the Diamond Princess January 2020. If it was really nothing going on for the, you know, walking, talking, you know, if you're pharmacy, if you're, if you wake up in the morning and you're young and your medicine chest is empty of pills, likely COVID is not going to affect you. You know, so I had a very early, easy test for COVID efficacy, or for COVID worries, which is to look at your driver's license. Now, take 2000, you know, take 2021 and subtract from the date of birth. If it's a low number, then you're pretty much healthy. You know, check your medicine cabinet. So, Henry, that was not really adopted. And we wound up having this, this, you know, draconian top down system of, of collectivizing medical care. And I'm just going to add a second point, which is kind of put the heat on medical doctors, of which I am one. But I have, I mean, it's available to have friends. I have acquaintances for sure. But one of my friends, long term friends, is a medical doctor. He's a pretty notable guy in the medical scene here.

35:08He's been on TV talking stuff over the years. And during COVID, he and I talked, and he had COVID very early on. So, to his wife and his family, they're all fine. They had it was, you know, coughs needs, whatever they moved on with their lives. And so, I said to him, I said, you know, so this is a good time, you know, to take, he had, he was, he sees young children. And I said, this is a good time to take the mask off for them, because, you know, I mean, he says, no, I'm not going to be that. Why? You're, you think you can get it again? He said, no, absolutely not. I said, are you worried you're going to get it somebody else? Because you're already, no, it's his mind's long gone. It's weeks. I said, well, what's the, why wouldn't you, you know, take the mask off as well? You know, I said to be a good measure, you know, to show the kids that there's an end at the end of this. There's a, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, rainbow at the end of the storm, all that kind of stuff. He said, well, it's not really politically time yet. I'm like, what politically time? He says, yeah, you know, we have to get, basically, we have to get Trump out. And, and we, we don't keep the pressure on it, you know, politically, but I said, you know, I, I just think that this is a

36:08total misapprehension. And, and, you know, I, I, they are literally changing hypocritical right now. So he's probably going to be in accord with the new, new, new, new hypocritical or whatever they call it. But in point of fact, this is not the, the relationship position should have. And again, I, an absent extreme circumstances with zombie apocalypse, I think you have to be treating that patient and, and deciding what's best for that patient and be honest with the person that, you know, there is no mysterious virus. I already, I already had it. I live so far with your kid. He has no reason for any of us to be wearing masks at all. And so forth. But to take your, your marching orders to think you're part of a political team, I think it pollutes the whole relationship and it damages the science. And I think we've seen that, you know, not just from this guy, you know, all throughout top the bottom. In 2023, this analysis was considered dangerous enough to damage my YouTube channel and get me expelled from LinkedIn. The institutions have since moved much closer to levees position, although the admissions and apologies remain scarce. I'm Dr. Randall Bach. You're listening to America. I'll always be there. During treatment, the structure of tap water gets messed up. Yes, we have to purify water,

37:12but what are we doing to fix the water structure so the body can actually absorb it? That is why we created our lab certified structured water devices. These devices restore water molecules back to their natural structure, just like a mountain stream, making them highly absorbable. It's not how much you drink. It's how much you absorb that counts. Better hydration, better energy all day. Get one for your home or on the go at chemicalfreebody.com, Fortslash out loud for an exclusive discount. That's chemicalfreebody.com. Fortslash out loud. In a world of rising prices, you can still grow abundance. I'm Doug Evans, author of the National Best Seller, The Sprout Book. Sprouts grow in three to five days without soil, sunshine, or fertilizer on your kitchen countertop for under a dollar serving. Take control of your food and your future. Visit thesproutingcompany.com, slash out loud and use the code out loud for an exclusive offer. Grow food, not fear. Welcome back for our third and final segment. I'm Dr.

38:14Randall Black. I'm Randall Black. Back with MIT professor Redseth Levy. We turn now to Dr. Patient Autonomy, the sacrifice imposed upon children, and the loss of trust caused by censorship and politicized medicine. The way I would phrase it is that we basically broke the, maybe one of the most sacred principles of effective medicine, which is the autonomy of the doctor and the patient. We injected to that autonomy also other considerations that are not relevant. Like, political considerations fear. But at the end of the day, I believe that the way, as someone that really works for 17 years with many health systems and many doctors, I always tell people with all the technology, with all the drugs, at the end, it's about humans, taking care of humans. This human interaction is at the center of what I consider effective medicine. The autonomy of the decisions there, like they can be informed, they can get information,

39:16they can be informed, they can be advised. But at the end of the day, it's between the doctor and the patient to make a decision what is best for the patient. And ultimately, the patient needs to make the decision. And the same as taking the poor. I'm doing some outpatient medicine as a physician practicing. And there is still a mask mandate in all outpatient doctors' offices. So if somebody, if I have a nine-year-old coming in with an elbow, a fracture, a fall, whatever, and the 35-year-old mom, everybody's healthy, nobody's got a cold, nobody's got a sniff, everybody has to wear a mask for the entire interaction. Part of the medical interaction is trust. And this is face-to-face interaction. We're doing Zoom here and we get to see each other, near each other physically right the second. But there's a certain aspect I can gauge. Absolutely. We'll be only good expressions by looking at the face. This is what's going on. Yeah, this is actually a very narrow, I mean, the other thing that happened to us that we took health, which is the holistic definition of health. And we never did down to whether you have

40:17positive or negative to some one virus, a single virus. And we forgot about mental health. We forgot about other viruses. We forgot about, you know, trust. We forgot about many things that impact health. And we know that the impact health. And what we've done to the kids, what we've done today, one of the things that I think is the major, one of the most major failures of the last three years is we as a society, we sacrifice the young and the kids in favor of the older and the sick. And that's to be the opposite. Society should do exactly the opposite. They should put societies with the right value system should put kids always as a first priority. And I don't think we've done that. I don't think we've done that. It's that's a major failure. No, it's definitely. And I think six kids, I feel very personally passionate about these. Well, Mazda talked to you. And congratulations. You know, the amazing thing, you know,

41:18people have watched the movie Titanic. There's kind of a no-blessed oblige. There's a standard where women and children first on the lifeboats. And we didn't accord them the same courtesy. Now, my, I've said this before in my podcast, but my now late mother-in-law was in her late 80s, early 90s throughout COVID. She lived the entire time. She died a couple of months ago from other reasons. We kept her in the house and she was fine. She was not mobile at that point. Anyway, we didn't isolate her. She was already self-isolating for quite a few years prior. But we, you know, we were careful around her. You know, frankly, we didn't wear masks all the time. We weren't sick. And so forth, because the interaction was important. You know, that she would die from a loneliness much faster than you would have. I literally, I literally know families who did that to their old people or with their old people. I really want to do it. You know, where this one now late mother, a friend of mine, she was indoors for a couple of years.

42:24Nobody saw her at all. Maybe her husband now, then. I'm sure she's actually and mentally. She did good on seeing her. She literally once until somebody said it was okay to go outside. And I've said this before. This beautiful photograph of her feeling the sun for the first time like a year and a half. Which is wonderful, but it was not necessary. You know, this same kind of thing of like holding somebody's head under, I mean, I love breathing. I don't really think about it that much, but somebody held my head underwater for like, I don't know, 90 seconds. What are I be like so grateful for breath? That's kind of what happened. It's like, aren't you happy we're letting you breathe now? You know, we used to have this joke. What's the best thing about getting hit on the head? Beat, not, you know, is that it feels good when it stopped. And this is kind of the mentality. It's kind of the mentality of the abused. And that, you know, we will let you have your freedom. We will let you walk around. We'll let you do the, we're not going to let you go to school, but you have to do the, you know, it was as it craziness. I'm just going to one separate example.

43:24You know, I'm a pro-backs person. I took the flu shot every single year on the physician. I found it was efficacious for me. I could go to work more often. I didn't get as sick. You know, my own personal experience of the flu shots were awesome. I took them from pretty, you know, moderately young age in the 20s, whatever, onward, and they work. Fine. Yellow fever, there's a vaccine for yellow fever. I've never ever taken that vaccine. And it's probably equally good vaccine, but they don't give it to people who haven't had yellow fever. They don't give it to the endemic regions. They give it if you haven't been going there and you have to get risks and so forth. And it's like there's no reason just because there is a vaccine to give that. And this, this kind of judgment and application and and and striation triage, wherever you want to call it, was never, you know, done. It was always a matter of everybody. It's a brute force method. And then at some point we have to think we bono. Like who's benefiting people? It became a fact. I would argue that, uh, I did three years ago, we used to have, um, you know, science on one hand and in very extreme people that objected almost religiously, uh, to all vaccines, whatsoever, right? And I think that unfortunately now we have, uh, the opposite religion that says,

44:29hey, you know, I'm not in favor. All vaccines must be good for everybody every time. And I think, I think that the truth is that every vaccine, like every drug should be examined over time based on the data available with respect to the person at stake because I would say like it's okay to give sometimes a drug that has a 20% chance of killing you. If that drug is given to a terminal a cancer patient that maybe has no chance whatsoever and they, it might be their only hope, right? So that might be okay to do, but it's definitely not okay to give it to a, to a healthy child, right? So my point is like we lost track of, uh, we kind of went away from the fundamental, fundamental principles of risk-based science and medicine where basically, uh, personalized, personalized the treatment to the person based on their choices, their risk factors and so forth. Like, there is nothing that is good for everybody, like almost nothing, nothing in life, including in medicine is good for everybody. By the way, even in food now, the new, the state-of-the-art

45:32studies show that maybe tomatoes are really great for you and maybe are not very great for me depending on our personalized biome, uh, uh, uh, composition. So you make some excellent provinging was labeled misinformation, but, you know, almost everything that was misinformation then is turning out to be true now. And um, This concept of misinformation is one of the most destructive concepts that we've had over the last three years. And I, I think that, um, you know, it sounds great, but I think you get to the, question of who gets to decide what misinformation is. And then sort of the, the sense that already kind of breaks it down. It's almost like democracy is not a perfect system, but like, maybe it's the least worse system that we have. And, and, and I'm saying that because you also mentioned other vaccines and other, um, and, and you mentioned the word trust, you know, one of the things that are most concerned about is, you know, that there are many issues about the COVID-19 pandemic management and, and we need to really learn the lessons. And, uh, we need to actually take

46:38care of the people that were injured and investing, understanding better how we actually know how to understand the mechanisms better and develop some treatments. But, but I think that all of this is important, uh, not only because of the specific issues related to COVID-19, but in a broader context, if we believe that medicine and science and public health are important elements of, of a healthy society are important for the well-being of individuals in, in, in our societies. I think that, if we don't, I think that what happened over the last three years has completely been the trust of most people in, in what they're being told, in, in what this being, uh, reliable information, you know, I think that we are now in a situation when you kind of believe what the CDC is saying, because most of the time, that's something completely wrong. These are very, very destructive, uh, situations. And, and, and I think that we have to work hard to change the systems

47:41that we have, uh, with that risk, in that respect. And regain the trust in science and medicine, because as a scientist, I still believe very strongly, very passionately, that science has a, and medicine have a very, very important role of, uh, enhancing well-being of people in the world. You just need to be used, according to the basic principles that we have, we've, uh, embraced throughout many decades, but it also needs to be kept out of, uh, both political and commercial interests, because it should be kind of something that, uh, we really defend and have, have very good boundaries, strong boundaries, uh, so we can actually advance science and advance medicine and translate, uh, and, uh, there are, uh, we, there's a big problem when these things are, are misused. I have a, uh, term of art, um, called a conspiracy of interests. So I think conspiracies don't necessarily form in deep dark rooms where people are, you know, smoking cigars, rural, and hard to plan.

48:42So I think, I think something happens, and some flag gets, you know, pulled up a flag, called metaphorically. I mean, certain people, salute, and certain people don't. It's either four or against. I, I'm gonna touch on this at the end, but I'm the author of a book called Overturning Zika, which is the last previous, uh, you know, great pandemic, and that that just fizzled away. It's just nothing there. Um, people are still spending money, there's a billion dollar research industry on it. They're literally working on a vaccine right now. Um, but the science wasn't there, but the origin story is fascinating. I, I, I started only with a small article and went to, got it, got, became a book because every time I looked, be more deeply at this, I was like, oh, I'm worried. There's more, more, like, uh, more oddities underneath the oddities. And in terms of that, you know, Zika, microcephaly came about through basically bad science. It was conjecture. They got leaked to the press and a couple different occasions. And that's not science. That's panic. And, and, and what, what, it, it, it wound up, wound up kind of like steamroll and,

49:44um, into a, a bigger thing than it was because there were people who actually, believe it or not, were in favor of Zika, microcephaly. Now, it's a miserable problem. It happens to your child. It's, you know, not a death sentence, but it's a, you know, cognitive, uh, sentence. And, and, but who could be in favor of this? Well, it turns out, at a good portion of the population, you know, on the left, in this case, uh, change your boss in Brazil. And so this became a, a bandwagon, the change metaphor on which they could jump, uh, to, to affect change. And so everyone, you know, and there were lots of groups throughout who kept, you know, the, the, um, you know, the pressure on to, to, you know, anyway, the diagnosis took on greater light than it might otherwise have had without certain political allies. And I think that we have to be very careful. And in fact, in Zika, the, the, the origin of the Zika part had a political motivation as well. I'm not going to, you know, save that from my readers to find out. But, but when, when, when, when, when, you know,

50:50when, when things are put backwards, it doesn't work as well, you know, the, and, and, and, and, that happens. But, but the funny thing is there's no apology. Uh, this one is, you know, I, you know, I think it will take time before people will apologize in the COVID context because there's so much on the stake. Once, once you launch this vaccine to everybody and you didn't just give it to their, I risk people. You have basically no way back. What are you going to say now? Oh, we made a mistake. This vaccine caused more causes more harm. The like, you, you, you, you, you killed, it's going to take a long time before people will even end up in the mid-summer. Uh, I, I, I, I'm, I'm patient. So, uh, I think it's going to take time. But the truth is going to come out. All right. So I'm going to, we're, we're nearing the end of your vulnerability. And I very much appreciate it with your time. And I'm, I'm honored that you're just pleasure. Spent it with me. And us in the TV land as it works. But, uh, so what, what has been the result of your proclamations or your videos? Have you garnered any momentum? What are your next steps? And what

51:51are your, what's your advice to people? You know, um, it got some quite a lot of exposure. I think, you know, to be honest, I, until there recently, I was not on social media. So this world is new to me. I'm still learning that. Um, it seems that, um, unfortunately, the scientific channels are often censored and being blocked. Still blocked. So it's very hard to convey messages through the regular scientific channels. Uh, so it's being left to the more social media outlets, which is good. And I think that, like, maybe that's a new age where people consume information in different ways. But I really hope in the, the, I, I, I'm looking forward to working hard to really start to have back an environment, a scientific environment where you can actually get together and have debates. Because I think that the way, um, the way forward has to go through regaining the ability to disagree and look at the facts together and have different interpretation, uh, uh, without,

52:55without the expectation of, of apologies and, uh, admissions of errors, I think that, uh, that, that's, that's what, the time for that will come. And I think that what matters more is that we start to have, again, a data because currently, uh, for many people, as you say, it's highly politicized, not, not necessarily between Democrats and Republicans, but between provax and anti-vaccine, it's like, it's, you're minimally classified. Yeah. And it's, it's, it's more about your, your label, rather than your what you're saying, facts and, and I think I, I hope that we can break that. And I, and I think, um, there will be some political pressure to break that I expect, but also, I hope that within academia, it's time progresses. There is more and more openness for just kind of these, uh, discussions. And I think that that's, that's got to be, um, hopefully, um, something I can contribute to as an individual. Um, but I, I, I'm, I'm expecting a long journey. The, the, undoing the last three years is not going to take three years. It's going to take maybe 10 to 15 years. So, um, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting ready for a marathon. I know it's a sadness, isn't it? Um,

54:04so it is what you do. Yeah. I was going to, um, just end by, well, I, I, I always like to do my own stuff. It's a shameless self-promotion. So I'm just going to, um, share the number. And for the people at home, um, with the copy of my book here, I'll make it a little bit bigger. Um, this is overturning Zika, the pandemic that never was. Um, that's my name. That's mosquito. I'm not a mosquito. Um, just for, I don't identify as a mosquito, anyway. Um, and, uh, it's on Amazon. It's coming out in Brazil, um, within the next few weeks. I've got some good feedback on this. Uh, Dr. J. Boudacharya, um, read my review in American Journal of Medicine. Um, I think it's a really fascinating story, um, because it gives, it's, it's more of an isolated one like a Faber J. I think it's, it's its own thing. I can be analyzed and so forth from distance. But I think the major message, but, you know, everyone knows Johnny Depp and Amber heard. And I think if you ask people on

55:05the street, you know, who is right? Who is wrong? How much he should have paid? What, people are like voluminously knowledgeable about Johnny Depp and Amber heard back in the day, same thing O.J. Simpson. But these were, these were adjudicated in a quarter of law and was public. And so, you know, the lawyers got up there and I don't know which lawyer you like better whether you like Amber, you like Johnny, whatever. But, but people are knowledgeable about this. I, I, so here's my idea. I just kind of occurred to me is that, you know, you should have a, you know, kind of a quarter law. There should be a science judge and, and people have to present their arguments. So, and then I don't know what they're going to be an answer or not. But people maybe have the, I don't know, I mean, that's back to the debates we're talking about. Like, that's like all the debates. You should be a debate. Yeah. All right. I'm going to leave it to you. Very much. Any last last words? No, I hope, help with, if, if anything, we all probably more, appreciate the, of the fact that health is the most important thing in life. So I wish everybody that is listening and watching as I will watch us just keep your help intact and do whatever it

56:09takes to leave healthy and hopefully that will help. Okay. And, and you have an unusual name. So, I'm just going to tell people they want to follow you. They can just copy the name. Yeah. I'm on Twitter. So they can follow me on Twitter. And I find your, your feed stimulating and your, working your thoughts as well. So thank you, Sam. That's all for today. Remember every myth as a solution and every truth has the power to transform your health. Find us on America, Aloud, Pulse Radio every Friday at 5 a.m. Eastern, or on demand. Wherever you get your podcasts, stay curious, stay informed and we'll see you next week. America Aloud Pulse, Pulse Radio.