Reverse Engineering Conspiracy Theories

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This is the Tom Hartman program.

I see will not come today, this year, nor ever, through compromise and fear.

I have as much right as the other fellow to stand on my two feet and own the land.

I tire so of hearing people say, let things take their course tomorrow is another day.

I do not need my freedom when I'm dead.

I cannot live on tomorrow's bread.

Freedom is a strong seed planted in a great need.

I live here too.

I want freedom just as you.

That's democracy by Langston Hughes.

It is the Tom Hartman program.

I am Jeff Smith.

How we test the limits that dangerously broad moniker.

I suspect things we'll talk about will include the war in Iran.

We will probably talk about Senator Federman and his eighth vote to pass along Trump's

appointee.

We probably will talk about Tulsi Gabbard and her statement that quote, the objectives

that have been laid out by the president are different from the objectives that have

been laid out by the Israeli government.

Given the number of objectives that have been laid out by various people, including

this administration, that is not hard for them to be described as being different.

In fact, one could say that the objectives laid out by the president for the war in

Iraq are different from the objectives laid out by the president for the war in Iraq.

I will have later in the program a note, almost a plea to my Republican friends.

I might have something to say about Taylor Sheridan, who is the guy who made the show Landman

in Yellowstone, Taylor, I have thoughts.

Also, I'm working on a new game that I'm hoping you will play with us.

In fact, you will be involved both as players and as judges in this game.

You might even be involved as producers and writers of this game.

But that I mean, you will help think about the rules as well as maybe even the title

of it, the working title, which is not yet worthy of a brand, is favorite conspiracy theories.

What are our favorite conspiracy theories?

And it starts with what are our criteria for what makes a good conspiracy theory.

Now remember, all the word conspiracy means is people agreeing in secret to do something

bad.

So it means a conspiracy is happening all the time, like all the time.

All the mob did was conspiracies, except for when they went out and talked about it in

the media.

All Russian intelligence does is conspiracies.

They don't do anything alone and they don't do it in public and it tends not to be good.

So again, conspiracy just means three things.

In secret, group people do something bad.

That's what conspiracy means.

All right.

But what are criteria for a good conspiracy theory?

I'll be interested in your thoughts about what the best criteria I've come up with

four.

I need to sharpen the language, but I've come up with four.

One, I'm going to call it plausibility, possible truth, factual support.

So one of our dear friends of the program calls in on a semi irregular basis to encourage

me to watch the rowdy, rowdy, piper movie about the alien takeover of the world, okay?

There is now, you know, like you can then score that on plausibility, on factual support,

on possible truth, in this.

Okay, that's one criteria.

One criteria on.

Second, we're going to call sort of surprise.

It's like, wow, that's interesting, like sort of the, I don't know, it's somewhere between

surprise and outlandish, that's a saying, I need a good word for that, that second criterion,

right?

But just sort of like, it's kind of wow factor.

Then third is its impact, its import.

So for instance, the John F. Kennedy assassination, the fact that he died and who was behind it,

that matters.

The, the, the combination of the assassinations of Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, and

John F. Kennedy changed the course of American history without question.

So impacted import of the third and the fourth one, fun.

Any time after you talk about the JFK assassination, the next criterion should probably be fun.

But that one, that one is actually lower on fun, okay, lower on fun.

But fun doesn't have to mean, it's fun that it happened, okay, because a lot of that's

almost anything with impacted import will not be fun that it happened.

That's not what I mean by fun.

I mean, is it fun to talk about, and this is where the JFK, and I don't think we're

to spend the whole day talking about JFK, to be clear, I'm using that one, it's because

that one's been so, so talked about, I want to find out others.

But is it, is it fun to speculate on?

Is there an element of cocktail party, red it thread, joy, interaction?

Some of you can talk about, you know, instead of a ball game, and it would be an engaging

conversation with the family and friends, I think those are the four criteria, okay,

so plausibility, surprise, impact, and fun.

Now we can work on those words.

So one of my first questions to you is, how should we evaluate conspiracy theories?

Are those the correct four criteria, I worked a little bit on them, and worked, I, I

think for my supper, can I prepare, okay, so are those the best criteria?

Possibility, surprise, impact, and fun, and then the other is, what are your favorites?

That will be all we talk about today.

We will, I'm sure talk about, we're going to put a plug today, and every day we're

on for the little Kings rally, we'll talk about that, we'll talk about the state of democracy,

we'll talk about probably the state of religion and the natural environment, we'll talk about

ideas to save democracy, the lots of things.

But a question I have for you, that I want to put squarely on the table so that you

can let your freak flag fly.

What are your favorite conspiracy theories, or what is your favorite conspiracy theory,

or if you don't like, if favorite is too hard, what's the conspiracy theory you think

is worth speculating about, sharing, investigating, enjoying even, and how should we evaluate

them, the, in a country suffering from Trump derangement syndrome spreading outward, in

fact, from the current president, his cabinet, and his Confederates, this program offers

mental health and support for democracy, appreciate very much, you all doing it.

One of the questions I have on the conspiracy front, okay, okay, it's this.

Are there deaths about which you are particularly suspicious?

Are there Epstein relationships about which you are particularly suspicious?

And one of the reasons I say it would be clear, when they say it's conspiracy theory, usually

that term is meant to sort of disregard the thing, understand what's been going on with

Epstein, is an enormous decade's long conspiracy.

And by the way, theory doesn't mean hypothesis, theory means hypothesis with factual support.

So Epstein's stuff counts.

What do you think?

We ought to be talking about it here at the top of the program, but your call is coming

up right now.

This is the Tom Hartman program.

Fly your freak flag and say it five times fast.

Jerry, you're on the air with some old school radio.

Go ahead, Jerry.

Yeah, we're doing this thing in Santa Monica and Venice on Saturday and Sunday with veterans

or peace.

But I want to say something about a conspiracy theory.

Your name say a book, Thomas Jefferson on democracy was written by this Sal K. Paymore.

It's just excerpts of Jefferson.

It's so simple that even somebody like my reading ability could do it.

But even after years of being in Santa Monica and Venice, you still have the clarity of mind

to read down the Jefferson on democracy.

Go on.

Yeah, well, the paperback that come out in 1946 on the back of it, it has pay for in

his OSS uniform for more work to and the book he wrote after he came back, experiment

in Germany.

So I sent a president Obama a copy.

I don't know if he read it or not, but the first speech he gave after is presidency was

we have to put labor on the board of directors.

This was the whole thing that our military, when McCarthy comes out of the Senate hearing

and says those communist generals, well, that's what the communist generals were tasked

to do is to get this Europe under control of this, got to go after the communist thing

that happened in both of the wars.

So you know, it's just, but we're down on the boardwalk on Sunday and Venice and on Saturday

in Santa Monica and we're going to do this peace string thing that I've talked to you

about.

These instant cedars that I've been pulling them up out of the ground in northern California

and bringing them down here and stabilizing them and some of them are four or five feet

tall.

Well, that's pretty cool.

And I want to say to replace all the fire starter stuff that happened here in L.A. with

these trees that don't burn.

It's going to take no more walk.

Here's what I want to say to some of our younger listeners.

And here's what I want to say to some of our groovy listeners, including Jerry and

Venice, because that's been headquarters of Groovy in many various times over the last

50 years, the last, you know, it's called 60 years.

So we need a little more Groovy in the country.

We need a little more Groovy, the Groovy.

And so that means that some of the Groovy out there, you need to do some recruitment

before it's too late.

We've got to get to some of the TikTok kids.

We've got to get some of the next generation, because the element that has been, it's been

part of the beating heart of this country to know that not everything is mechanistic,

not everything is a set of automotons, not everything is a buttoned up old school, thin

tide, IBM executive type of energy.

We need some of that Groovy energy.

We need it back.

We need more of it.

And that means Jerry, I'm putting the burden on you a little bit in addition to replanting

seeders in addition to working on peace and care for veterans.

You got to do some recruitment, because we need a little more, and to all of my boomer

friends on the good side of the boomer, on the good side, not the sort of entitlement critique,

but on the Groovyness, on the peace of love, on the, hey, wait, we got to rethink some

of how we do this country.

We need a resurgence of that before it's too late, all right, Jerry, I appreciate you.

Let's go to Gary from Chicago, Illinois, you're on the air.

I call the Bible answers live program about environmentalism, and gave them Genesis 128.

God gave the minion of the planet to Adam and Eve, and so the Bible is the Equate Stuart,

and then Genesis 2, 15, which is pending care to God.

And then those are the commands.

The consequences is Revelation 11, 18.

I will destroy those who destroy the earth.

Gary, back to you, you are talking about in the passages of the Bible, speaking of religious

freedom, passages in the Bible that call for us to be environmental stewards, and that

by the way, the evangelical movement has somehow forgotten or disregarded or turned it

on its head or decided they'd like to do something that is in fact countered a Christian,

but Gary, go ahead, go ahead to your point.

Well, my point is that he told me that you have a cut out of your balance, and Gary

felt he's sufficiently made his point, and he is, I am Gary's vessel, but it's no small

point to my evangelical friends, to my pros and friends, to my friends of whatever religious

pursuit, but I want to say particularly to my friends that come from a Christian tradition

who find wisdom in the Bible, it is very clear about being a steward of the land is very

clear that there are responsibilities to leaving it better than we found it.

It is very clear, and the twisting that has happened of Christian teachings to subjugate,

to not encourage good works, to not encourage compassion, not encourage support for the

poor, to not encourage support for the sick, to not encourage being steward of the land.

It talks about that stuff way more than when you have to twist yourself, figure out where

it talks about abortion, but it's very clear about what it's talking about, when it's

talking about the natural environment, and a resurgence within Christian teachings and

Christian followers of people who actually want to follow the lessons of Christ be a steward

of the land.

I appreciate that.

Gary, Mark Taylor Canfield, with what a wonderful name you're on there.

Hey Jefferson, good to talk to you again, and I work with a nonprofit called Democracy

Watch News.org, and we're keeping track of current threats to democracy, and I just

wanted to let people know that the International Research Group called Varieties of Democracy

or V-Dem have Sweden just downgraded the United States in their latest report.

They say the U.S. can no longer be considered a liberal democracy, citing suppression and

intimidation of media and dissenting voices as a key reason.

The report finds that the speed in which U.S. democracy is currently being dismantled

is unprecedented in modern history.

They also cite federal government rollbacks of civil rights protections, attempts to suppress

left-leaning groups, and a steep drop in legislative constraints on Trump as one of

the reasons for the downgrading of our country.

By the way, V-Dem is housed at the University of Gothenburg, and it's funded by several

Swedish institutions and also the European Commission, the World Bank, and the National

Science Foundation in the United States.

I appreciate that citation.

You think there are some key takeaways, though, from that report, and that is that there

are view turns away from autocracy, and the elections after an authoritarian takeover

are usually pivotal.

The first electoral cycle after authoritarian takeovers are often very decisive, so we have

a very important election coming up.

You're listening to Tom Hartman.

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Again, next Friday, and by then, maybe you will have the idea of the same thing as before.

The only time I really have to watch TV, and we do, so I work during the day, and I work

pretty hard.

I start pretty early in the morning.

I work pretty hard, and then I take off about two hours, and I spend that eating dinner

with my wife, and we usually watch something, okay?

For an hour and a half, two hours, okay?

And then sometimes I can recreate it after I go to the gym, whatever, but very often,

and I just work some more before I go to bed.

And so-

That's two hours, you know?

No, no, but I'm saying-

No, no, but I'm saying something.

Right, but you're about to make my point.

Hey, have you-

No, no, hold on.

Let me finish real quick.

I'll let you go.

Don't worry.

But Katie has to say yes.

And so far, I haven't gotten her.

I'm not the problem.

She's the problem.

I'll crap.

Stay with us, Joy.

But go ahead.

Say your last time-

I'm going to watch it with your dad, because your wife didn't want to, but you said

that you would watch it with your dad.

And right, if we get dad to watch it, but then I got to get two yeses.

It's a good idea.

But then I get-

I'm still being Katie.

Well, maybe your dad's new wife.

Just me a whole-

We got a whole watch party.

All right.

We'll go watch party.

Maybe we'll do a no-

Or listening to the Tom Hartman program.

Joy, I appreciate you.

I appreciate you so much.

I'm so glad you called.

I so appreciate you listening to this program.

You really did help me.

Inspired to say that.

We'll be right back.

Matt from East Jordan, Michigan.

You're on the air.

Hi, Jefferson.

I don't have particularly green favorite conspiracy, but I have a topic that I think would

deserve more attention at this time.

It's a very controversial topic.

Great.

From-

For decades.

And that would be a call for-

At this time when public opinion in the United States has changed radically towards

Israel.

I'd like to see a new investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.

Are you-

Have you read some of the document-

The information about-

I'm not-

I'm not-

I've not read original source documents.

Feel free to share more.

Yeah.

Well, I think it was day five of the six-day war that Israel attacked the Liberty with

some of the purple boats and also aircraft that can get fighters of the-

of the time.

And it ended up 36 sailors on a ship were killed.

Now the ship was a CIA ship, modern and Israeli activities that would build the six-day

war near the Egyptian border.

And there have been, I think, the latest investigation by the United States was in the

early 1990s.

But there have been several investigations and they've all come to the conclusion that

it was a case of mistaken identity.

And personally, I kind of think it was a case of mistaken identity.

But those- the most prominent famous advocate would be James Banford, who wrote a book called

Beyond Secrets.

I believe that's the title of the book.

There's been a tremendous amount of scholarship.

But those that think that it wasn't a case of mistaken identity and then it wasn't

in fact deliberate, argued that it was- because it was a spy ship, there's several theories.

One theory is they actually wanted to blame the Egyptians for the attack.

When the Israeli attack on the ship and then blame the Egyptians, you're trying to get

the United States involved in the war.

I think that's pretty far fetched.

But you know every time that there's a war crime or something very disastrous like our

attack or resumed the attack of killing the Iranians just recently, the children in

the school, somehow the governments are able to- they never admit that or they do their

best to cover up what might be the truth and not when they succeed.

And so it's possible that they were trying to- this was a false plague operation.

But I think what's more likely is that they were trying to- that Israel was a spy ship

and they might have that information that the Israelis had committed a war come by killing

Egyptian prisoners that they had been monitoring this killing of prisoners and they actually

knew about it.

They didn't want that information to get out.

And they also think that the Israelis were very worried that we knew about their plans.

This was I think day five of the six-day war and at that very time the Israelis were planning

to attack the- and try to seize the gold on heights.

And they- naturally the Israelis didn't want that information to be public and our government

was trying to get- as it's kind of common these situations a ceasefire.

And the Israelis wanted to keep the war going so they could grab the gold on heights.

And so they sunk the ship so the information wouldn't go out.

But anyway, there's a whole bunch of controversy about this.

And as I say all of the U.S. naturally Israeli investigations into the incident have concluded

that.

It was a case of mistaken identity.

But I would like to see- you're finished your thought, Matt, you've been out of- you've

been at it.

So finish your thought.

Anyway, I would like to see a new democratic administration in this context where, you

know, so many people are re-evaluating our position toward Israel, the investigation

of this once again.

I'd like to check into it.

No, I appreciate that, Matt.

And thank you so much for the call.

I appreciate- I'm going to go down to Joy.

I have stuff to say about that, but I want to make sure that we get to folks who have been

waiting, including Joy, who didn't get to finish her thought before.

Joy, go ahead.

Thank you.

I very much appreciate that.

That we are- whether you watch that movie, I don't care- but-

Well, I want you to care.

It's part of our dynamic joy.

You just took away some of my joy.

Well, I hope you watch it, but, you know-

It's part of our whole thing.

If you watch, I say no.

And then you say, what are you going to watch it?

Then I say something that I don't do it.

And then we do it again.

I mean, that's like our whole game.

That's like a format we do.

And it is.

So let's move forward.

We've got to give people what they want, Joy.

Yes, okay.

And the next part is that how we- we know- it's so clear that we are not alone and that

we have not been alone for countless millennia.

Look at the Nazca lines as one thing.

There's actually a place in California now that is even bigger than the Nazca

lines.

And they're just discovering it now.

And it's not possible for people of many millennia ago, they didn't have that technology.

We are not alone.

And the invasion that occurred on this part of the land 500 years ago was certainly from

across the seas, but it was also from across the skies.

And they've been here for a very, very long time.

And they are in our media and they are everywhere.

And we need to recognize them and tell the truth and open up.

I mean, the whole thing about the chemtrails that nobody talks about it and yet it's obviously

occurring.

They're not even using our airports to do these things.

And they're up there and they're spewing their stuff, making the crosses all over the

sky.

They're not doing touch and goes.

They're just spewing stuff.

The meteorologists don't acknowledge it.

Nobody acknowledges it.

And yet it's happening in plain sight.

The planet has thyroid issues now.

That's not normal, but whatever it is that they're spewing and we're not allowed to know

about it.

We need to have these conversations because we are not alone and they have invaded.

And there's no possible way.

Thank you, Joy.

Appreciate you.

I don't think I've told the inner story.

If I have it, I should tell at least two or three times over the course of my appearances

here.

I'm honored to be able to be here.

So folks on this program have a chance occasionally to listen to news of my dad, a show we talk

about the news of my dad.

The inspiration of that is largely my dad.

But there's another little inspiration was I watched electric companies a kid and I really

like Spider-Man.

And that was one of the reasons I would watch electric companies because Spider-Man will

come on.

And I just like that.

And I think of news of my dad, it's kind of a Spider-Man of when I come on here.

It's like a little thing that happens.

But my younger brother, he's a stepbrother, he's into Jonathan, he's teaching in Ghana right

now if you're trying to find him.

And he's a wonderful guy and he was, he and his wife were going to have a child.

And the child had not yet been born.

And there was a discussion in the family living room about what the child's name should

be.

It, of course, was not a decision.

But my brothers who raised it, his wife was there and we were all talking about it.

My brother, my brother said, you know, I just want a name that nobody will make front

of them for.

That's really all I want.

And I didn't even know his name, Jefferson, my older brother named Lincoln and I don't

know if he had us in mind.

But that's what he said, I just want a name that he won't get me in front of for.

And the very next thing stated, there's eight or nine people on a living room, was, was

an all media family.

And the very next thing stated was my dad.

With now without a glimmer of irony, without a note of humor, I think even not having paid

attention or hearing to what my brother Jonathan had said, dad erupts from his chair.

He stays seated, but he erupts verbally from his chair and says, I've got it.

Now we're about to hear.

Now we're about to hear the name that is the perfect name because dad is a man of conviction.

And when he's got conviction, you know, you better listen to it.

And of course, we've just heard from the father.

I don't mean by father.

I mean, the father of the child about to be born.

The primary criterion is that it be a name that the child will not be made front of

for having.

That's bringing in our ears.

Now what's bringing in our ears is dad, the patriarch of the family, saying, I've got

it.

And we're waiting, baited breath for the answers.

You are waiting now with baited breath.

And he says, I've got it.

And he says, we're waiting.

And he says, this was the name my dad proposed for my nephew, was Edus.

I said, truthiness.

And that made me think of Edus, which made me think of my brother and my dad.

And it occurred to a few of us that we could think of a few ways that a kid, that a boy

with a name Edus might, in fact, be able to be made front of.

It occurred to us.

I mean, I'm not saying we're poets, I'm not saying we're long, fellow, I'm not saying

we're two-packed Shakur with the art of rhyme or M&M.

I'm not saying we were ready to freestyle, filling the room with our artistry, and it

did not take immense creativity to come up with ways that the name Edus might violate

the primary criterion that had been offered moments earlier by my brother, that in fact

this child would not be made front of for his name.

Because he was not named Edus, he was named Miles, let's go to your calls.

We're going to go to George from Cripple Creek, Virginia, it's actually to the South

East of Seattle Washington.

Go ahead, George.

Yeah, I think my favorite conspiracy theory, Jeff, is that FGR knew in advance about the

Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and let it happen to service causes Belite to get us

involved in World War II, you know, that's interesting, you know, we were the main supplier

of oil that Japan, and in 1944 we had an embargoed oil that Japan, and they only had

a few months of oil supplies left, so they attacked US, lead at Pearl Harbor to knock it

out so they could invade the Dutchies Indies and get control of the oil welds there.

Yep, so I appreciate that, where would you, let me ask this, what do you think of the

most important criteria to evaluate a conspiracy theory for, if we were going to award a prize

for instance in the future, we're workshop in this game, what do you think are the most

important things we should evaluate for and measure?

I think plausibility, does it seem like it could be true?

Yes, I think it's a good one, I think it's a good one.

I'll give you one, I'll give you one that I've heard, and that is that when, was it over

Pennsylvania, the plane that was, they made a movie about it as sort of a hero story of

the people on 9-11 who, you know, rushed the cockpit, right, that the conspiracy theory

is that in fact that plane was shot down, because it was going to be on its way to take

out another federal building and they are taking out a federal building and they shot

it down over an unpopulated area and then hatched the story of a hero story so that to both

cover over the fact that it was shot down and shot down for benevolent purpose, right,

not a benevolent act, but shot down for benevolent purpose and then to turn into a real turn

into sort of a patriotic, a patriotic story about hero, hero Americans taking batters

into their own hands.

So that's what I heard, but George, I appreciate yours and thank you so much for listening.

And keep up the good work, filling in for Tom.

Thanks, George.

Mickey, from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, suburb of Seattle, go ahead.

This is a real close tape.

It's very funny.

Oh wait, first I want to give you my name for your game, crackpot crack.

If I can figure out how to say it, it's pretty good.

Anyway, so the reason I called you, it's funny because this is my idea of how to say

democracy is how also to bring the Groovy to it to our cause.

All right, we need some Groovy.

Okay, and here's what else this idea, this is a great idea.

It will also bring money into our cause.

All right.

Groovy and money.

Let's get networking, we'll bring innovation, creativity, and our strategies.

It will help us get optimism back.

That's good.

That's good.

Great.

And get news coverage.

Man, these are the, you're making a good case.

You're a good, give me a good case.

I'm working on this for weeks.

Let me tell you.

All right.

So we got Groovy.

We got networking.

We got optimism.

We got results.

We got press.

There were some other things you said, but that's at least five good ones.

Keep going.

And the, and here's where the idea came from me.

I was watching Cindy Laupert when she was getting into the lock on the hall of fame.

And she said, the reason I came onto the show was to share this.

And what she said was, the little kid and me still believe that rock and roll can save the world.

Now you know where I'm going to?

Concert for Bangladesh, far made, live aid.

We need liberty aid concerts.

Here's the solution.

But not just, I think it should be mostly digital.

Interesting.

Artists submit stuff mostly through, so that free speech TV may be joined with PBS, maybe

NPR, working together, weekend long, I'm suggesting Memorial Day weekend, along like

the good old fashioned telephones, raising money for our cars, including free speech TV.

Liberty.

But people submit a lot of it digital, because you know, maybe they don't want to have big concerts

with mega violence out there.

Well, I'm going to, I'm going to say, so I love liberty aid.

And I do think it would create networking and optimism.

I think it would be groovy.

I think it would, it would get pressed.

I think it would honor Cindy Laupert, okay, and the things that little kid and her things

that rock and roll could save the world, what a wonderful sentiment.

And I love it.

Although I like, I like the, I mean, the thing, you know, live it, yeah, you can see on TV.

But I like the live part of it.

I like the, I like that in person part of it personally.

I like the idea of getting together communally, not turning everything over to the digital

and the algorithms.

I like the part of it where people get together and, you know, get COVID together, no, we

don't want that.

But we have watch parties, watch parties around across the country.

Love the idea of the watch parties.

Okay, let me ask, do you know Rick Rubin?

No.

Darn it me neither.

Do you know who is the highest ranking music producer or musician that you know, that you

would be willing to put on the phone with me?

Okay, if you don't have that stuff, I don't know any other little lady from the outskirts

of Seattle.

If you live in the, in the further away suburbs, yeah, like if you live in the, so, summer,

in, if Seattle proper, you might know Pearl Jam.

But if you live in the, in the, in the outskirts, yeah, I got more important things I have to

say about this.

There's two, three more points I really have to get out of here.

They're good.

Mickey, we're going to break.

Bring me back.

Bring me back.

Mickey.

Mickey.

We, we need some more here, Mickey.

I know, but remember, listen, how do we get more news coverage?

This is important one.

Okay.

We'll see.

All right.

Ian is coming up next.

This is the Tom Hartman program.

She was told me to stop it.

I guess Mickey is coming up next.

Mickey's is like, I got more.

I got more.

Liberty A is enough.

I got more.

All right, Mickey.

You're on a short leash.

Go on.

Okay.

Coaches, here's the three things, the goals of our concert that we are doing.

First of all, the general strike, we're promoting now.

We're educating about it.

We're getting serious about it.

So starting on Memorial Day, we're prepping for the 4th of July.

We'll be general strike and we got to get serious about it.

But people don't work out for the July.

People don't work out for the July anyway.

It's like a, it's like a national general strike generally.

It's a good part.

Right.

But it'll continue because with every process we need to do is to have a demand.

And this demand is impeach them or we're got, or we're not, we're not going to be

back.

We're falling.

We said, 4th of July, we're not going to work.

And then, and then people won't go to work because it's 4th of July, like, and then we're

success.

We're not shopping.

We're not shopping either.

All right.

And you're the other thing you're going to say is, and we're going to, we're calling

for, we're calling for parades of the country.

And then you'll be right.

There will be parades all over the country.

Okay.

Two other things we have to promote.

First of all, people, Americans are so desperate for some action that's effective and, and,

you know, we're at a, we can't, we can't run up the other two.

You had a big run up of the first one.

I need the other two quick.

Make, we got other callers.

Okay.

Come on.

So, and we start, we adopt our counties.

Everybody in the country, you go work on your county to protect your elections.

You love it?

Make sure they're not.

Love it.

Okay.

What's the other one?

Love it.

That one's great.

So, you start, you start protesting at your local news stations to demand, they start

covering.

Is that your right?

Is that your last one?

Yeah.

That's it.

Make it.

Appreciate it.

Love you.

You have a wonderful day.

Bob.

So, I'm San Jose.

I believe it's, we have, we corrected the presentation during the break.

I did some research.

I believe it's pronounced San Jose, California.

Bob, you're on the air.

You got it right.

I was going to add two little bits of information about Pearl Harbor.

First, we had a bunch of shortly listening stations in various places around the world.

And we knew what frequencies the, the Japanese, they may be used, radio communication.

As they were coming across the Pacific, they broke radio silence twice.

And in each case, we were able to figure out approximately where they were based on

the, the directions those signals came to the listening stations from.

So, it was not a complete surprise that there were some Japanese naval activity heading

towards Pearl Harbor.

So, that's for it.

That's a bit of information number one.

I appreciate that.

A bit of information.

Yeah.

Bit of information number two.

Look at what were the naval weapons of World War One, cruisers, battleships and so

forth.

What were the naval weapons of World War Two aircraft carriers and submarines?

Guess what was not at Pearl Harbor.

I don't know of any submarines or aircraft carriers that were there.

Interesting.

So, the losses would have not, not have been the main weapons, the naval fighting weapons

of World War Two.

So you're saying, you're saying that bolsters George's claim because it, that you could

imagine that a president who wanted to be able to get into World War Two and win, help

win World War Two, including making sure that he could project power in the Pacific

theater, would still be able to maintain fighting ability, would still be able to maintain critical

sort of operational power even after the attack because some of the main stuff wasn't

there.

That's the point.

Well, that's part of the point.

At the other point is remember, there was, there was a thing in the Midwest, a fellow

named Lindbergh, who was, who was agitating people to avoid getting suckered into another

European war, and in the Midwest, there were a lot of people who said, we don't want to

go fight another European war, and so there was a pretty strong anti-war thing happening

in the Midwest, and how do you get people to change their opinions, you know, or something

dramatic?

Yep.

And I think that's what Pearl Harbor was supposed to be.

No, I hear, I hear about it, it is really interesting, and here's, and here's one, here's

one view, and it's even related, it's the reason I brought up, it's the reason I brought

up the conspiracy theory about the plane being brought down in Pennsylvania by, by the United

States, by friendly fire on purpose, and then creating a story that it was actually done

by heroism, by random citizens on the airplane, that in both cases, this sort of the plausibility

thing, in both cases you can understand why it would be done, and even why it should

have been done.

He was really important in the United States getting World War II, the Nazis, and with Japanese

allies taking control of Europe and taking control of much of the world, we had been a

bad, bad thing, we had been a bad, bad thing, and it's a bad thing to allow for a small

to medium size, horrible, horrible thing, or let's call it a big, bad thing, big, horrible

thing that happened in Pearl Harbor, it was a catastrophic bad thing that they wanted

to get into.

They wanted to stop in World War II, similarly, like taking down a plane, taking out a plane

so it doesn't take out another federal building, is maybe the right move, but nobody could

really stomach, a American fighter taking down their own plane, let's go to Tim from

St. Louis, Missouri, I think it's St. Louis, go ahead Tim.

Yeah, I was wanting to talk about George Bush's administration being warned some 60 times

before 9-11 about airplanes were going to be used, and the conspiracy would be did he

ignore it, or were they just completely incompetent?

There is documentation to the effect that they were warned by the previous administration.

No, it's, you pointed out incompetence, and I will say, I will say a very fair view,

is incompetence is typically at more Occam's razor, a more plausible explanation for conduct

than a extraordinarily well thought out plan, but that's not always the case.

I agree to a point, but you have to remember when George Bush was governor in Texas, he

stood up on the podium and said that I will be a wartime president, and he was still

governor of Texas when he said it.

I hear that.

Tim, thanks so much for the call.

Bob, you have sort of the same point from Clearwater, you've got about 20 seconds.

Okay, 9-11 made 20 trillion dollars for the defense industry, either they saw it coming

or made it happen themselves, the painting that's at Epstein's living room, so Bush

too, sitting on the ground with his jenga and paper airplanes.

No, I appreciate it.

So this is one, this is actually, this is why I wanted the fun criterion, because I

used to have a guy cut my hair, it was a nice thing, he would do it as I was running

it on property, he didn't have a lot of money to contribute, so his contribution, he

would cut my hair, because I wasn't making much money at all.

And he would tell me about 9-11 conspirators all the time, they used to be fun for me, a

little less fun now, because they could kind of play it out, but I hear you.

Jessica from Chicago, Illinois, you are on the air.

So happy you're on today, and I'll just say one quick conspiracy theory, I do believe

there are bodies buried that were killed when they were raped and strangled on that ramp.

The moral purpose of a civilized society is to prevent the stronger from attacking or

exploiting the weaker.

Otherwise we would permanently be involved in a Buddhist war, in which only the fittest

in most powerful were survived.

And Jeff, the one thing that bothered me so much, the press seems to have ignored the

briefing where Headset committed another war crime right in front of them.

When he says the filing, no quarters order, that is a war crime.

And no quarters is a violation of the laws of war, this is not only an illegal war, but

they continue to take it to an extreme.

And the thing is, they continue to murder, help with survivors, after they torpedoed that

ship where the sailors had no weapons, Headset bought 87 sailors' bronze, that's a war

crime.

They also have an obligation to save all those sailors.

And then the boat strikes and the Caribbean, they double strike the boat with survivors.

So Jefferson, everyone needs to Google the military meaning of no quarters order.

And what I get from the meaning is the U.S. will not accept a surrender.

And the U.S. plans to kill the innocent population.

They will kill the civilians that bear no part of this war.

But the U.S. is already doing that by bombing the apartment building schools and hospitals.

The U.S. has no honor.

They bomb for the fun of it.

And those are Trump's exact words.

Can I end with a really wonderful thing for you?

I love your poems.

And everyone needs to watch on YouTube.

Ed Norton's action is an antidote to doom-scrolling anxiety.

Ed Norton's extended interview.

And he quotes from Walt Whitman's poem, Crossing the Brooklyn Ferry.

That poem is 160 years old, and it represents what's happening right now.

So I love your poem all the time.

Well, I appreciate it.

I'm going to, I'm looking this one up and I might be able to put it in the queue here.

And I did.

I've been looking up the no quarters comment that has worked to clarify it.

There is no question that if you did, in fact, that no quarters order is a directive to

take no prisoners, meaning enemies to be killed rather than allowed to surrender means

refusing to spare the lives of combatants, even if they're incapacitated or surrender.

And per the Geneva Conventions, it is a war crime.

So much of what's happening with Hegsith, and if it were only this, it'd be less dangerous.

But it's like, I want to sound tough, I want to sound tough, after World War II, after

the atrocities of the Nazis, and after the, and after Vietnam, there has been an effort

to more and more professionalize and create and make humane if it can be a thought of

a humane, the act of national defense of war, and they want to sound tough.

But then they say, so I'm going to, I'm going to be the secretary of war, but then we

go to war and say, don't call it war, call me the secretary of war, but don't call

it war, doing war.

That's like, so now he's like, secretary of undeclared conflict, we'll be back.

Kino from Lakeland.

How you doing, Kino?

Hey, Jeff.

Good to see you.

Real quick.

I want to talk about the No Kings March, but I want to first say, Democrats should start

talking about Trump worship syndrome because Trump is a kind of antichrist, not the antichrist,

a kind of antichrist figure, and Trump worship syndrome describes how these people have given

up any rational, critical thinking about this man, they worship them.

The other thing for the No Kings March, I want people to make science say, I will have

a science say, Congress arise, pass an immigration bill in five months.

We got to be specific about what we asked for, and one of the things for Congress to

assert, practice asserting itself, it can pass an immigration, laying for the Republican

Senator from Oklahoma had two years ago, he had a bill ready with bipartisan support, and

that can get passed, it can be refined and made better letter, but five months, let's

put the pressure on Congress to do something in five months and be specific about what

we asked for, not just complaining, and so that's the main point to want to make, and Congress

arise, push them, push them, push them, and put pressure on them for a bipartisan coalition

between Republicans and Democrats, so your reaction, Jeff.

First reaction, you know, good call, I appreciate it, you had a good tank, man, well stated,

Trump worship syndrome, first response, I really appreciate it, I learned I'm working

on the Torkal Arctic's remote, in my own head, how I think about it, for even just helping

more accurately define Trump derangement syndrome, I believe that Trump derangement syndrome,

I now have been persuaded that Trump derangement syndrome is in fact real, and that the current

president suffers from it, and he spreads it, and it includes several things, blind to

the crimes of the person that is worshiped by the Trump deranged, the neglect, what is

best for the country, even best for one's own community, maybe even best for oneself,

and it includes Trump worship syndrome, and I understand that there have been people

who have tried to misdefine Trump derangement syndrome, or something, somehow about people

who oppose Trump, no, this is not of course, we know the accurate definition of Trump

derangement syndrome is the derangement that is emanated from the very first word of

that phrase, and it very much links to Trump worship syndrome, in fact I would say Trump

worship syndrome is either a comorbidity, or is a subset is either a part of the diagnosis

of Trump derangement syndrome, I think they are closely linked, so one of the questions

I would have for all of you is in fact, what are, in addition to Trump worship syndrome,

what are the elements of Trump derangement syndrome, what are its symptoms, how do you

know if somebody has it, okay, we need to get into this, we need to find the truth,

Don from Elizabeth Colorado, you're on the air, you know, I had a peanut butter and

banana open-faced sandwich a little cold, because every person was, and I had a smoothie,

it was pretty good, my dog is over here lying down, and there's a lot of things going,

how are things with you Don?

Well, I live out here on the plane of who's Colorado and Albert Stan, things are going

wonderful, let's be over to her. There you go, there you go, all right, what's on your mind?

So, the reason of calling is you were talking about the Trump derangement syndrome,

and the Trump worship syndrome. Yeah. Well, I think that the Trump derangement syndrome,

could be represented by a court's jester. And the jester, the court's jester is always

one who's caught out the mistakes of the game, every by checking him and ridiculing him.

Well, the Trump worship syndrome would be represented by the king's groom, because the king's

groom is always cleaned up no matter what crap, but the king puts out, and he spends a lot of

time in the king's detoxical area. I like the avatar idea, I like the avatar idea,

here's my, here's my, I like that, and here's my, here's my quibble, or not like quibble,

but here's the thing I heard, was it Sarah, I feel bad, I forget her name. Brilliant caller,

I think it was a retired nurse, who said, who just said, Trump derangement syndrome is true,

and it is, it's absolutely valid, and it's accurate, and the people who have the worst case of it

are in fact Trump voters, that he has deranged them, and he has deranged himself, and he's

deranged his fellow Confederates, and, and my, and my plea, and I thought she was really onto

something, and I think we should, one could say co-opt, I'm going to say more accurately define

Trump derangement syndrome, not as something that you are afflicted by primarily because you

think that there should not be an imperial president who has done the litany of, not only impeachable,

but impeached crimes as this president, not for, it's, it's not derangement, it's not derangement to say,

you know, I'm not sure if that guy with all the felonies should be the president, like I'm not sure,

I'm not sure this guy with his, with his record of abuse, maybe he shouldn't be the president,

I'm not sure this person who has lied more times than anybody in recorded history, I don't think I'm,

I don't think what I said just now is an accurate, I don't think there's anybody in recorded

history who has lied more times than Donald Trump, somebody please fact check me on this,

I'm not trying to hyperbolize, okay, I don't think it's deranged to say, you know,

maybe I'll hold for somebody else, I don't think to say that with, with, with the person who,

who is dropping yet another bomb and vading yet another thing, raising costs yet another dollar,

raising oil costs yet another dollar, killing yet another blank number of people, distracting from the

very Epstein, very, very Epstein files case that his own movement was saying was so important,

like I don't think it's crazy to say, you know what, maybe it should be some accountability for that guy,

what I do think is deranged is to say that none of those questions are legitimate,

yeah, that's true, look at Donnie, that's an excellent thank you, Don, thank you,

we'll be right back after this,

let's go through it, let's go to Stephen who wins the most patient listener award,

you're on the air, go ahead Stephen, thank you sir, the most greatest point are you sitting down,

2024 election was stolen, okay, there's proof all over the place, you can be an election denier,

or you can be an election, yeah it works both ways anyway, so ddhq was the decision desk headquarters,

run by Rubio's IT guy, okay he's a major holder in that company, they're coming up with

counties like five counties that did not exist in these states, like Burke County Florida,

there are several other states, Michigan, Pennsylvania, I think Wisconsin, I can't name them all off the

hands, anybody want to look into it, they can go through a election truth alliance, or this will

hold on a sub stack, and there's other people that are sharing still factors, also it's up to you

that is covering some of this debacle too, they've got numbers, they found out that things aren't

the way they look, the whole trajectory of this administration is built upon this lie, and you know

if you want it to lie that you want, well that's fine, but nobody's really looked into it,

nobody's counted the ballots and the people who have had all the tootness errors all the way down the

line, I'll tell you, so there was, there's real discussion around, or rather 2020 election,

and but not public enough, and I was asked about it, and what I brought myself to be able to say,

because they were having some fun, but what I was able to bring myself to say was this,

I would be no more surprised, and first of all the fact that, you know, it's sort of the one

who smelted Delta, we all learned that when we were like six, we also know that Donald Trump's,

one of his primary moves, it's like tied for first, is projection, right, is going out at, I mean

they did it with Epstein, they do it over and over again, but whatever their greatest sin is, they

attack somebody else for it, so it makes it blunt the attack when the attack were to come on them,

so we know that, and what I was willing to say was this, and this was about 2020 and not 2024,

because I didn't have information on 2024, I would be no less surprised, no excuse me,

I'd be no more surprised that Trump with allies for an endomestic had manipulated vote counts

in the 2020 election than I was that Donald Trump won despite polling suggesting otherwise,

that was what I was willing to say publicly, what I'm still willing to say publicly, but Steven,

I appreciate you, I appreciate you bringing this one up. Thank you. Yeah, be well.

You too, thank you. And what I want to say is thank you everybody, appreciate you so much,

you're the coalition of the devil irrational, the good people doing good things for no good reason,

without you democracy is not possible with you, we've got a chance, you are priceless,

definition of crisis worth a lot, not for sale. I will be back, we will get to my evolving and maybe

devolving grand unified theory of what the heck we're up against, includes media, includes power,

includes psychology and persuasion, includes the electoral math, this is challenging, I want to

say that up because it'll be a big piece of the conversation. It has been wonderful to be with you all,

I know it's great for Tom and Louise, we would have a vacation. I also have to say selfishly,

it is wonderful for me to be able to get some of this stuff off my chest, not me in the conspiracy

theory stuff, that stuff's fun. Reminder of course, all conspiracy means, all conspiracy means is when

more than one person agrees in secret to work together and doing something bad, that's all it means,

doesn't mean it's false. Lot of speculation about those things because they're done in secret are false,

so you got to make sure it's possible before it's actually a theory, it better have some

factual support, otherwise it's just a conspiracy hypothesis, but what I want to do is say thank you to

everybody. You've been listening to Tom Hartman for audio and video archives, visit Tom Hartman.com.