Revisiting the 2017 NHL Draft

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This is the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series.

Hey, everybody, Max Bolben here alongside the Athletics, Corey Promet and Scott Wheeler and

Flowhockey's Chris Peters for another episode of the Athletic Hockey Show Prospect Series. We got

a fun show on tap today. Scott's got a new 2026 draft list out. We're going to talk about that a

little bit later on. But first, we're going to turn back the clock a little bit. It's been

nine years since the 2017 NHL draft. It was one of the more interesting NHL drafts in recent memory

Corey because there wasn't a slam dunk number one overall pick. That makes it a really fun

one to revisit for a couple of reasons. One, to see how that's all played out. But two is just a

little bit of a case study and how these things are always snapshots in time. You guys always talk

about that. This one in particular, the way it's evolved. I think the way that we look at the 2017

class, particularly at the top of it, is different now than it was two years ago, let alone four

years ago, let alone nine years ago. And so I think that makes it a very interesting sample.

At the time, the whole discussion was Nico versus Nolan. That one's not really the conversation

anymore. No, and it's been interesting. I think you've seen over the last decade, a lot of

leaks from teams to reporters about how they perceived the draft and how they loved

Miro Haskin and they loved Kale McCarr and a couple of years ago, how much they loved

Julius Patterson. You never hear from the teams that had Nico, he shared one of which of which

there were plenty or the ones who had Nolan Patrick and one of which I at least I know there was

like, there was a couple. But yeah, that draft has evolved in a couple of ways. But back then,

it was definitely Nico versus Nolan. That was a legitimate debate. I think there were definitely

people. Nestle and Patterson, I know, I mean, I know there were scouts and teams that had

haste getting up there and had McCarr up there. But those were minority opinions. It was definitely

between those two centers. They were prolific CHL centers with with with a rich history of success.

He sure was tremendous that year's world juniors. He was tremendous in the queue that year.

Nolan Patrick had had three great years in the Western league, although he was injured at times.

And there were some questions on his game too still. I mean, it was a legitimate debate.

But obviously, that's not how things have played out since then.

It's interesting too, because I completely understand why that was the debate at the time,

right? Everyone's looking for the franchise center. You had two guys who kind of looked like

what we envisioned that as this has turned out to be an unbelievable center class in hindsight.

When you look at the names in it, he sure has panned out to be a very good center. Maybe more of

like a high end number two low end number one, Alias Patterson. He's been a hundred point player.

You could say what you want about where he's been the last couple of years. He's still at all day

at top six forward. He's been a one hundred point center in the NHL Robert Thomas number one

center in the NHL and Nick Suzuki Scott might be the best of the bunch at this point.

Yeah, the defense been kind of defined that class in hindsight. But if you were to rank

the four words from that class, I think Nick Suzuki on March 18th, 2026, as we record this,

has as compelling a case as any of those guys, Martin H.S., who you didn't mention in that group.

More of a winger, more of a winger, but has had a heck of a couple of years. And I think

N H.S. probably has a case to be right there with Suzuki with the way that he's played in Colorado.

But it's still probably Suzuki with the two way impact with the position with what he means to

the Montreal Canadiens who are now a playoff team again. He's probably the like you're taking him over

he sure, I think. And and probably over N H.S. too, those those feel like the the three big

boys have forward in that group. Although Patterson still leading the draft of scoring right now.

Yep. He has not this season, but in the overall like total points, I think it's 497 is what

Patterson's at at the time of this recording. And right behind him is McCartle. We will get to

the defenseman here, but just sticking on the center on the center and the forwards here, Corey.

It was an interesting class because some of these names that we talked about, Suzuki, Thomas,

those guys were not picked in the top 10. And even N H.S. was a little bit later. And over time,

Robert Thomas. Yeah, exactly. Thomas Suzuki. We were talking more about names like Gabe Vellardi

at the top about Michael Rasmussen at the top. And that's shifted. There's a complicated

assessment to be done, Corey, about what to take away from this. And that'll kind of lead in when

we get to the 2026 draft segments, some of these takeaways. But when you kind of reflect back on

that, do you have a, I know every year you do the what I got wrong list. Is there an overriding

lesson here? Well, Vellardi is his own unique case because he's actually become quite a good NHL

player, not a great NHL player, but he's become a very, you know, useful piece in the National

Hockey League. It took a very long time though. I mean, his injury situation was so complicated

back then. And, you know, he was the name that kept coming up when people were talking about

Katie Lindstrom in that 2024 draft and then Roger McQueen in 2025 draft. That the way you have

these complicated back and hip injuries, that those are things that can really drag out for

years. I know when back then, the assessment of Vellardi, when he went to live in the overall

of the Kings was that this is a problematic injury. But I remember at the time, because I've

been doing this for a long time, getting a little bit older. I've never talked into scouts

back then. The assessment was from a lot of other doctors was this is going to be one, maybe

two rough years here, but we can get him back. He's going to be fine. He's going to be playing hockey

regularly in two years. That was not the case. It was a lot of ups and downs and stops and starts

and is his career over, you know, hypothesizing and obviously he comes back in and is good, but

not for the team that drafted him. There's still something that he's dealing with too.

My understanding is Vellardi in terms of stretching and preparing his back and it's a career

long thing that he's just managing now. If you look, at least in the top 15, the names that

probably didn't pen out of CalFoot, although obviously complicated other issues with CalFoot.

Leeus Anderson at 7, Cody Glass at 6, and to a degree, Middlestad at 8, although he's still

playing. He's a good player. A lot of guys there are heavy feet. A lot of guys there who really

struggled with the pace of the NHL, but you can't use that as a definitive rule because I don't

think Suzuki is the fastest player in the world, but he's got tremendous stick and brain and

competitiveness. But that'd be probably one of the most common traits there. Max, you've probably

covered Rasmussen's career a lot, and I know there was a lot of debate at nine of, yeah, he's big,

he skates okay, but he was a point of game player in the Western league. Was this the biggest

upside swing? Yada, yada, and it's fair because obviously net just goes ahead of him.

Suzuki even, you could have a conversation him versus Tippit, I think you still might, you could

take Rasmussen over Tippit though, but I mean, there's a lot of guys in those 10, 12 picks that went

right after Rasmussen that outside of those couple that became prolific players that he probably

ends up being better than though, right? Yeah, it's always interesting one for me to discuss with

fans because it's a pick that I think to this day frustrates Red Wing's fans. They see the success

of Suzuki of Thomas of natures. I think there was a lot of love for natures and a lot of love for

Gabe Velardi who played in Windsor, and so was very close to Detroit and a lot of interest in him.

So he's always kind of had kind of carried the burden of having been the ninth pick who

went ahead of those guys. But I'm interested in it because you look at him and we sort these

by points, right? And I wouldn't say scoring has been a defining feature of Michael Rasmussen's

game in his NHL career. He's still top 20 in this class and scoring, and that's while being,

you know, a defensive center, a penalty killer. I don't know where he goes in a redraft here,

but it's probably somewhere around there 20 to 25. There's some goalie, some defenseman who you

take out of him that are lower on the scoring list. But, you know, it's funny. Like I was looking

at he's same, same number of points is a to lose to Ryan and I think the way we talk about

a to lose to Ryan and is is much more glowing. And there's a reason for that lose to Ryan and

it's been on winning team. I think he skates better than Rasmussen. I'd take him over him. But it is

interesting every time I go back to this class to look at like, you know, Red Wing's fans frustration

on one hand and the reality of it that this is kind of what that, you know, he probably should have

gone 10 to 15 picks later, but it's not like he was a, you know, at least Anderson that situation here.

The rest of Ryan is one of the more interesting players from that draft because he was a draft plus

one that year that this was the second draft eligible year. If you look back at his stats,

it wasn't glowing numbers he put up in Liga, even in that second draft season. But he kind of like

took off right towards the end of the year. He was the definition of a late riser. I remember

like talking to head scouts who like in the month of March and April. So, you know, peak CHL

playoff season, you waitings. There's a lot going on and they were popping over to Europe to go

watch this kid. So he was a really fascinating case of just pure athleticism and that a guy who's

often kind of developed late. Totally. And you talked about the heavy feet. I think that's kind

of a theme too when I look at some of the wingers here and some of them started out as centers. And

the reason that they are not wingers is because of the feet. That's geeky and velardy. But

Jason Robertson, not the fastest guy, but he's going to end up as one of the highest scoring

players in this class. It has a chance by the end of it all to be the highest scoring player

in this class. He's only about 20 points. Jake Baviston, another great example there, right? So,

I don't know if there's a takeaway here, but it is interesting to contrast that

versus some of the more like shifty wingers that were in this class. Your Kyler Yamamoto's,

your Ely Tolvenins and see kind of who rose to the top of this Chris.

Yeah, I mean, Robert's in was one of those guys. And I think there's other, it wasn't just the

feet that put them outside of the first round here. But in the end, I think that was a defining

factor. But I think Robert's in in particular is one of the great lessons in the equalizing

factor of hockey sense and the ability to understand how to create offense and how to use time

and space to your advantage and other things like that. But yeah, I mean, I think for a lot of

these guys, you know, some of them also, it wasn't necessarily the straightest, their quickest path

to the NHL in order for them to, you know, to be a factor needed, you know, all of their junior

eligibility, maybe sometime in the NHL, different things like that. And then you have guys like Geeky,

who have just, it's been a much later kind of explosion towards the end. And so they're, you know,

with players that have the skill level, you know, as one of their defining traits, in addition to

being a little bit on the bigger side, I think there are a lot of things that you can look at to,

you know, put a put together a picture of what an NHL player looks like. And I think the 2017 class

in particular is a great lesson in the, you know, the varying ways that you can reach and

reach the league and have an impact in the league. It's a really compelling class in that way.

Lots of guys that were first round picks that are, you know, kind of bottom of the lineup guys

or, or, or tweeners. And then you have some of these mid-round guys like Batherson and,

and, and Robertson. But again, I think sometimes in cases like Batherson and Robertson in particular,

sometimes you just have to allow yourself to believe that what they're doing at the level they're at

is impressive. You know, like, it's like, oh, yeah, he's got all these points, but will that translate

in certain, you know, in not all cases it is. But when you look at the size profile, the,

you know, the mitigating factors, whether it be their hockey sense or their, you know, their

physicality or something of that nature, you know, the, the players with some size and some skill

have a great, a pretty long runway and it might not be right away. But, you know, those are guys

that I think are great examples of the paid power of patients and also, you know, hockey sense can

get, take you a long way. Robertson and Batherson are, I think, are a little different for me too. Like

Robertson was a prolific junior score. Yes. Like the entire time he was in the OHL. He was,

what do you have like 80, 90 points in his draft year? He had a strong underage profile too. Like

there was always, there was no doubt on his skills, his brain. It's just, is the brain instinct

lead to enough given his problematic skating stride? He kind of, like, is gangly on an athletic

skating stride to make it. Obviously, the answer was yes. And with an emphatic, yes, actually,

given how good he's been in the NHL. Batherson on the other hand was like Lewis Renn in a late bloomer.

Scott might know this detail better than me, but I believe he had a significant growth spurt

right around the time, but that's his draft plus one year. Like, this was not, I think he was like

510 or 511 when he came into the, what he came into the queue. And obviously, now he's like close

to 6-3. So that one was just like identifying some traits, some intriguing skill, developing body

by Ottawa in the mid rounds. And then, obviously, Batherson became that year after his draft. He was

one of the more dominant queue players I could remember. He, yeah, he, I think he was like 511,

6 feet and is listed in his draft here by NHL Central Scouting. I'd have to go back and,

and check. And he was still very productive in his draft here in the queue. But that, that

step he took post draft was, was something else. Like, that was, okay, we've got a different,

different cat here now. You're never going to like solve how to draft based on just looking

back at one class, but it's interesting because we're talking about some of this profile. And you

might think, okay, so always draft, like the skilled, highly productive score, like, even if they're

a little slow-footed. But then you have Liam Greentree, Colby Barlow, Arthur Calliev. Like,

there's other counter examples to kind of this similar profile of the prolific scores here.

And I wonder, like, is there a trait that jumps out that's like, yeah, but those,

those guys had elite scents or more compete or something like that, Corey?

Well, well, Tauvannin is one from that year, who everyone loved. Like, he was a world junior

player at 17. He had a tremendous international track record. Didn't have a great year in the USH

L that year, but he had been very good as an underage. Like, that was the skill guy that

everybody loved. And then even in his draft plus one year, he goes with the KHL. He rips it up.

And it's obviously he's in the NHL now. He is an NHL player, but his size skating profile was very

problematic. And he was never really good. I think when you have that issue, you want to have the

high compete because that's what Suzuki is like. He's not the biggest of the fastest, but he's a warrior.

Like, I was watching just a game of his the other night and the way he could win battles for a guy

his size is just so impressive. Like, that was probably Tauvannin's issue.

It's always a balancing act, right? Like, you go back to that draft and

a small guy with prolific feet would have been branched from, like, holy,

health and air branched from skate. But he still couldn't defend at the pro at the pro level.

Like, he wasn't hard enough. He wasn't competitive enough. So like, when you're that size

or you're big and you're slow, you got to have some other trait that really hang your head on.

Yeah. You didn't even mention all of our Wallstrum key for bellows there. Max off the top.

Like, absolutely. It's a very long. Not this draft, but no, he's saying like,

police and guys who were prolific scorers and maybe you would, you would go, okay,

you got to trust the trust. What's there? Like, those guys busted too.

The toolsy is guy in this draft who I believe why he didn't make it. But god damn,

I thought he was going to make it was Vesalainen. I'm not sure if you guys remember watching

Vesalainen when he was a teenager. Like, that guy was so talented. Like, six, four, he could fly,

he had good skill, he could rip a puck. Like, he was just like, just lazy, like, average hockey

sense. But like, so like, it makes you kind of think of rubric a little bit like from guys this

year, like a Lyndon Lackavik, like that profile a little bit. But like, he was so, so talented,

so much fun to watch at the junior level. He played pro all year between Sweden and Finland

and his draft year. But he, at the junior level, he looked like a, like, like, not a,

can't miss guy, but a guy who had a really good chance to make it. Yeah. And he could,

yeah, he couldn't even do it at the, at the AHL level when he got over here. Oh, and tip it too.

Like, I know a few people around Owen and watched him a lot in, in Mississauga back then.

Like, just the athleticism, the ability to shoot it, the skating, and yet for a long time,

Owen had no clue how to play hockey. And it, it just took him, took him a long, long, long time

to figure it out between the ears and tip it. So now signed what's almost $8 million

player with the flyers. But he's figured it out. You know, he was a top 10 pick. It took

a while to come around. I still know if it's top 10, what you're looking for. But he's 40 to 50

point guy. Like, that's a, that's a useful top half of the first round. He was, he was in the,

they, they gave him a, the, the early tryout too in the NHL right after his draft. Like with,

like, and then, and then he didn't get that for a couple of years. It's like, oh, what happened

there? You know, so, yeah, it was interesting. Yeah. Clim Kostin's another one who really

toolsy. He struggled in his draft year, you know, played 11 to 10 minutes in the KHL. But 64, heavy,

skilled Russian winger. It's tough with guys like that. Because like,

there was, there was a lot of like, talk at the time about, like, you see, fits too over the

physically developed, the usual tropes about Russians, about how old is he really, etc, etc.

But in which also you could never verify any troops to it. But I remember watching him when he

was a junior player, especially as an underage player. And like, he thought, like, this guy has all

the tools. And I remember even like, St. Louis was like, at the draft table, they were bragging

about him. Like, they couldn't believe they got him at 31. Yada, yada. Not the only thing time

you've seen teams do that. But that was one that I couldn't believe he couldn't add a little

bit more often. Same thing with, there's a lot in ribbon with the American league. It was a struggle

right away. Like, he couldn't score in North America. At the level that I thought he was going to

miss the score, that is. Which was at least like an unreasonable middle six winger.

I'll never forget Kostin on the, at the draft that year, they had the top six or seven guys

from NHL Central, for both of NHL Central Scouting's list in a room sort of backstage at the draft.

And Kostin was one of those 12 or 13 players that they sat there. And then they got to walk on

stage as their names were picked. And then suddenly everybody in the room is gone because they've

already been selected. And Kostin's just sitting there until pick 31. And in hindsight, probably sitting

for a good reason. Which at the time was the last pick of the first round. Yep.

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Corey, a little bit ago, you mentioned Eric Brandstrom and that's a good... that's where I

want to start. Kind of as we pivot to the D here because from 14 to 18 in this class,

there was a run of five straight defensemen. And I think I'm clear to say that none of them hit.

Cal foot at 14, Eric Brandstrom 15, Yusso Valamaki 16, Timothy Lilligrin at 17,

and Erhovak 9 and at 18. To go 0 for 5 like that in a run of defensemen, normally would mean

this D-class bombed. But it is saved by Cal McCarr and Miro Hayeskin and going four and three

respectively. And I think there's a very real case they would go one and two in a redraft of this

Corey. Yes, and I think there's a lot of people, especially with McCarr, there's always kind of

been the debate since then is why Jay and he go one because he's so good and he's become such a

dominant force in the NHL. Obviously Hayeskin and has two, but McCarr is Stanley Cup winner,

elite offense, kind of the anchor there for Team Canada there at the Olympics. You know,

he's just a very special player. And you go back to that draft, like we've mentioned at the top,

that you had these two really good centers, you know, very toolsy, great CHL careers.

Do you realize the balls it would have taken to take a late birth date, 5-11 defenseman in the

AJHL ahead of those guys? And I know teams were thinking that I know New Jersey was thinking about it.

They didn't end up doing it, but they did a lot of research on McCarr that you get with the first

overall pick. That was a serious debate in that room. But to pass on a guy who you felt really

confident was going to be a top six center in the NHL, a really good top six center. You know,

like McCarr, there was questions and how it was going to translate. There was questions

how it was going to translate even in the year after his draft. He wasn't even the top scoring

defenseman at UMass from his draft in that draft plus one year. It was Mario Ferraro outscored him

that first year. That obviously the second year he goes, goes off,

ridiculous college year goes the NHL, you know, the rest is history. But there was some significant

risks in that projection. Despite the great feat, the great skill, the great hockey sense,

you know, the AJHL is very far removed from the CHL, never mind from NHL. So those were the risks

there. I think he was kind of viewed more as like a defense version of he sheer just really well

rounded, probably a better skater. But I think the chance to get a guy you thought had a chance to be

a first line center one the day there. But I think that was more of a conversation of these

terms of risks. I don't know. You guys think I'm just remembering anything there because I feel

like I think everyone's everybody, I think Central had McCarr what like seventh in North America

or something like that. Yeah, it was all over the map with Kale. Yeah, I mean, it's easy to say

now and easy to say, oh, yeah, I loved him. I remember watching with the World Junior Rage Challenge,

he was incredible. And he was like, he was dominant at that junior event and dominant in the

in Brooks. Um, I mean, can you imagine like in this draft, I'm talking about McKenna and

Stenberg. And if I told you though, there's this guy in the BCHL who I adore, he's so talented.

Let's take him over McKenna. Like you guys would like laugh at me. Like, you know, it would.

Yeah. And even then like, then it was like the AJHL was still like, you know, they have,

they would have players, they would have, they would have guys that you would draft, but very rarely

where they in the first round. And I, you know, I think we kind of saw some of that this year where

like time and Lawrence was like, I probably need to go to be you if I'm going to have any chance

of being the number one pick because people are, you know, whatever they may not take a USAJL

player first overall. And you know, that's the thing is like, if McCarr was in a different league,

maybe we are having a different discussion, but that was a big part of it. And, and Cory,

I remember even like talking to you before, because this was actually the year that I did not

cover the 2017 draft that was out of hockey at this point for my one year out of it. And

I remember the conversation we had, I was like, I, because you mocked him there at the end,

didn't you? At number one. Yeah. Or that's not, that's not where I had him rated. But I,

I, I, I, you know, New Jersey was doing homework there. And I was wrong ultimately on that front.

But I thought he was going, I thought he was going to go first overall. Yes. Yeah. I mean,

and that was still like, yeah. So like, and that was a legitimate thing. And that was certainly

something that I was hearing too is like, all of a sudden, like, you know, there, there's,

there's a lot of teams and the debate came back to league strength differently. Like, how do you

project that out? And, you know, ultimately, you know, if they would have done it, they would,

you know, would have a generational defenseman. But, you know, it's, it's really like, you're

thinking back to that. And to Cory's point, the jump from the AJ to NCAA for KL McCarr was not

managed very well in the first year. He was, I, I was going back and looking at some of my other

things. And, and it really wasn't until his sophomore season where it looked like, oh my God,

this is a different human here. You know, and, and, and, and think about how little he was

utilized at the world juniors that year, too, where he touched the set. He was a power play guy,

like a specialist. The set was, he was a second power play guy. He had to sit behind Kale Kleg,

who was running for a car. And, and, and he ended up still, I think what, he had a point per game

in the tournament as well. And so like, good. Yeah. It's just like, you know, there, there are some

people that are just different. And it's really like, I, I feel like it's hard to allow yourself

to believe it in certain settings. And I feel like that's really what ended up happening with

KL McCarr was that the fact that he went forth from the AJ is still a really impressive thing.

And then, you know, yeah, that one will, that, that is always going to be one of the most

fascinating things. And in the current landscape, it'll never happen again. So we don't have to

worry about that, I guess. With Hayeskin. And it's interesting because I feel like he's having

one of the best seasons of his career this year. And yet I've never heard less about Miro Hayeskin.

And then I am right now. I think that problem with that is that on top of what Kale and

Quinn have become in the league, you've also now got Werenzki and Lane Hudson and these other guys

who've just really, really elevated. And it almost feels like what Miro is has become, he's been

way better, there was even talk last year of maybe he's being replaced as the number one

defenseman on his team. Like he has been way better than Thomas Harley this year. So I think part

of it is just time. And there's new shiny toys like with what Lane's doing with what Zach,

with what Werenzki's done the last couple of years, with what Siders doing this year.

There have just been other players that have risen to that, that sort of level. And lo and behold,

the Dallas stars are one of the best teams in the league and Miro Hayeskin and still one of

the best defensemen in the league. You know, a couple months ago, I pitched to Dom and Shayna.

I was like, this is the year of the two, the true two-way defenseman between Siders, Sanderson

and Hayeskin. And I was like, all three of those guys are going to end up I think in the top five.

And just as the years gone on, Quinn got out of Vancouver and recaptured the magic in Minnesota.

Werenzki is somehow at or outshining the level that he did last year, which was outstanding.

And then Lane Watson is right there as well to your point that Evan Tushard has like 200 points.

That's right. Exactly. So somehow these two-way D get lost every year. And it drives me a little

bit crazy because I do think that that that player type is so coveted in the NHL and it just gets

lost over and over again. Well, some of those two-way guys are better than some of those other

guys. That's just a reality. I agree. I'm just saying that they get lost in the conversation.

You mean that the voters just sort by points?

You will not get me to say that on the record. That's okay.

All right. Any other thoughts on this class before we get to 2026? I mean, the Goldie class here,

Jake Ottinger is kind of the shining star in that regard. Ukepeca-Lukin and Shoutout last night

or Tuesday night in Vegas. Anyone else here that stands out that you want to talk about?

I mean, there's so many things you can go all the way. I didn't even mention like a little

looker in like that. There was such a hype training for that guy going into his draft. And

ultimately he runs into issues, average hockey sense, I think, like really doomed him there

towards the end, but like that was one. You know, we didn't even mention the guy at the top.

He had to play it all. He had to play it all year too. And like Leah's Anderson. Yeah.

Like, yeah, that's God. That's just, you know, probably, you know, probably the most disastrous

pick from that draft was Anderson. And like, they thought he was going to be a captain.

Yeah, I know. And I remember, go back to that time. He was a world junior player that year,

probably played better than Patterson did at the world junior. That year Patterson didn't play

well at all at that tournament. And I think he even got invited that he played world championships.

I think he got invited to like pre-termine games with the world championship team. I think

and like he got like, but there was always like, yeah, he's 5-11. Yeah, he's not that fast. Like,

yeah, he's not super skill, but everyone who loves it, like he's a warrior. He's Mike Richards.

Like, this is, this is what this guy is going to be. And then, but like, yeah, like,

well, you're picking top 10. Like, this competitive as a guy is like, it's, you've got to like

have at least some sort of, like, high end traits to hang, you know, to, to, to be hopeful about.

Like, he's got to be able to skate. He's got to be able to score. He's got to at least have

some sort of athletic projection there. Like, that's, I always struggled with that one. Like, I got

a lot wrong that year. That was one I just never fully understood the hype for.

Yeah. Now in, now in Switzerland, now playing professionally in Switzerland after two of his

most successful AHL seasons after not painting out as an NHL player. So just it, yeah, that,

that one is, and, you know, he was such a central part of Sweden's, you know, they, they went on

that run the following year in 2018, where he was the captain, you know, all those, all those

different things. And man, it just, it never, I mean, like, he was in the other thing too. So he,

he started the season, didn't he start the season with for London and then he moved to the AHL

and then the, the Rangers like, oh, we got to get him in. Like, he played, he played games that

following year. Um, you know, in the NHL. So it's just, it's, it's very strange. He had two of his

17 points that year, by the way, 17 points at 110 NHL games for the seventh world pick.

This was the Vegas expansion draft. And it is amazing to me how badly this should have gone by,

by what happened with their, with their three picks, uh, in the top 15, they, they take Cody

Glass at six Suzuki at 13, but then trade him for Max patch already. And then they trade Eric

Brandstrom to recover from having that been your first draft. You, you have this amazing

opportunity with three top 15 picks to start your franchise on. You nail one of them, but trade

the one you nail, uh, and, and to somehow recover from that, you know, like Willy Wonka

Ask Fashion is magic. Well, I, I do remember when they traded Brandstrom. That was the Mark Stone

trade. Yep. Good, good, good player to get back kind of been important for them the last,

you know, last little while. I remember, like, Pierre Dorian, then the Senator Chino Manager,

like, talking about just the glowing review of Eric Brandstrom. He's like, well,

we traded Mark Stone, but we, the reason we did, we got, because we got, can't believe I just

got Eric Brandstrom. That was, it was, it was, like, he was effusive in his praise of that player

and obviously just complete disaster after that. Um, he was finished and was the start of the,

the 5-11 puck moving demon in the first round that doesn't work out trend that followed for

eight or nine years, basically. Oh, Chris, the next year. Unlike, unlike some of those guys,

like Vaseline and Lola Grin and Kostin, Ranshan came over. He was really good right away. Like,

that first year in Chicago, he was excellent in the American League. I think he was,

we came over at 19, I think, but he, like, he was really, really good. You're like,

oh, it's going to work. It's going to translate. And then he gets the NHL and there's, you know,

not really a novel tape, the NHL is a little bit better than the American League. And he just,

just couldn't defend in the offense was just never really truly lead enough to compensate.

Yeah. And you know what? I do think going looking back at the Vegas thing real quick. Like,

how good of a lesson was that for them to just be like draft picks or commodities. They

are not true in the future. Like, like, it's like, hey, if we, and the thing is is that,

you know, teams constantly overvalue their prospects. They constantly do it. And we'll hold onto

them for too long. And, you know, basically, you know, Vegas will have no qualms about it because it

did eventually lead to a Stanley Cup, you know, and with, especially with Mark Stone being a central

figure and all those different things like that's that works, you know, but yeah, that could have

been, that could have been a complete disaster. You also wonder, what is, what do they look like

with Nick Suzuki at the center of everything? But then you probably don't have Jack Ikel at that

point, you know, all these different things. There's, there's lots of what ifs that you could play

in there. But in the end, you know, this is a team that has basically made their every single year.

You could pretty much guarantee if like, you know, hey, Trevor Connelly, I think has lasted

longer than any first round draft pick that they've had. So kudos to him. Ironically enough,

they also ended up with Nick Hague from this draft class who they didn't pick. There you go. Yeah.

At some point, you feel like the, you know, it's going to come due for them, right? Like,

like, yeah, this is a pretty old team and like, I was about Pittsburgh last year,

but obviously Cindy Crosby and Eric Carlson seem to have, you know,

truly special players seem to extend the window there a little bit, but I think with Vegas when

when it comes due for them, it's going to hurt. The thing is though, like Vegas is going to,

their ability to recruit as both at no tax state, the destination and a place with this reputation.

Eventually, yes, they're going to need some young players. I do still think as many players as

become available on the trade deadline, Vegas is going to be in the top two or three on their list.

So yes, you probably won't have the assets to chase after them in trades forever. But to the extent

that there even is free agency going forward, they're always going to be a player in that too.

Can we do a quick like, I want to see how you guys would draft the top 10? If we can,

are we unanimous Cory? Do you want to, do you want to just go in a square here? You want to

pick number one and we'll just see how this would shake out in the top 10? All right, first overall

pick. I will, I will fall in that grenade and take kill McCart. Scott. I think it's Miro 2.

Chris. Why is this shouldn't be? I don't like it. You'll need to go third. I can go third. No, yeah, okay.

Yeah, you go third. I think it's, I think Nick Suzuki has a very real case to go three. Yeah, yeah, I think

right. I think you're right. Nick Suzuki. Because I didn't want to take him three. I'll take him four.

Jason Robertson. Okay, Cory. This is where things get tough here. Because I think

he sure now in the conversation, pettersons in the conversation, Thomas is in the conversation here.

Netches is the better talent, but I'll take he sure, I think.

Okay, Scott. I'll go, I'll go netches over Rob Thomas.

And I would say Thomas at seven then. Yeah, by process of elimination. Chris has the only two

hard picks here, I think. Did petterson get picked yet? He just did at number eight. He just did

petterson. Okay. All right, so nine, Cory. Audenture. Yeah. And then a 10, Scott, if you want to round

it out, I don't know, man. Is it, is it batherson?

Good. I don't really love Swamon, but I guess he could be considered in the argument. Yeah,

yeah, it's probably. I would take, I would probably, I don't know. I think if any of those

goalies that have gone in that 10 to 15 range in recent years became Swamon, their teams would be

very happy. Swamon's, Swamon's one of his nights. It's, it's probably Swamon. On a current game

basis, it's probably Josh Norris, but obviously there's a major asterix there. I think, I think

Buffalo would love to trade Josh Norris for Jeremy Swamon if they could do it, right? So, yeah,

like I said, I think Josh Norris, when he's healthy, is an outstanding hockey player, but it's,

yeah, it's been a rough go, if that late, the last two big of a pretty much, pretty much his whole

career. Not bad for a class that that had all that chaos at the top back in 2017 turned out they

had no, no, no, no number one overall pick to maybe like three or four. Number one overall pick

worthy players in that class. Let's take a quick break right there. We'll circle back and we'll

talk about the 2026 class. And maybe if there's anything we can take from 2017 as we analyze it.

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All right we are back and Scott you had a 2026 draft list come out this week and I wonder

with everything we just talked about kind of looking back at the 17 class. Is there anything

that you think really applies in how you're analyzing or expect to be analyzing this year's draft

class? There's always certain debates that are kind of universal here.

Yeah I think the two universal debates that come to mind in the conversation we just had is

the smaller group of D where we've talked a lot about last year no sub six foot D,

Cam reads the only six foot D taken in the first round. This group has a number of those guys

all of a sudden and frankly next year's draft I just started sort of putting the finishing touches

on my first list for next year's draft which will be out next week and it's it looks similar like

the top D and next year's class led by landed Dupont are kind of fit into that that sort of size

category and then Corey and I have had some interesting conversations about the sort of late first

second round 80 90 point CHL wing types that are in that 511 range and where they fit in this

class we almost we couldn't quite settle on a number but we almost settled on a number for

whether one of Mathis Preston Igor Shilov Thomas Charenko and Nikita Klepov what whether one of those

guys sort of goes in the first round or where those guys fit once the big names once the true premium

guys are off the board I think that's going to be a conversation that we're having on draft day

and coming out of draft day and into next year some of those guys are going to put up big numbers

in junior hockey next year there's a chance that Klepov goes to Michigan State next year

and has a good year on a good team and so that conversation is always interesting for me because you

get through the the 6261 centers with skill you get through the premium D and then what happens

with that sort of second tier and we had Yamamoto in 2017 and 12 and in 2017 that we just talked

about and then Brantstrom on the D side in 2017 that we chatted about that for me is an interesting

sort of second layer to the draft conversation this year because those players are like we've had

some highs with Nikita Klepov he's one of the leading so he might actually lead the OHL depending

on how this weekend goes he might lead the OHL and scoring this year Preston's been banged up

but Preston's had some real highs with hockey Canada that that conversation around those kids I

think is an interesting layer once you get through the chase reads and and the true sort of big

boys I believe the exact words wasn't a conversation I believe we you had a wager which I offered

and you declined I think it was top 32 it was Corey insisted on top 30 and I offered top 32 that one

of those guys goes top 32 and Corey I think now well I think Klepov's probably going top 32 so I

think that that this wager was back in November so I should have taken the bet is what you're saying

yeah yeah yeah I think yeah I think it was a mistake I don't know if she loves maybe I think

Preston's a big baby where do you have him on your list right now I have Preston right at the

back end like 30 29 30 27 I got I'm looking I I have him like way later than that like I think he

was just he's not going in the first year yeah I think he was he was really bad this year I

he's been compared to what I thought he's been good in Vancouver and Spokane was tough like Spokane

was a tough situation for him I think he's really talented the feet the skill are tremendous but

he's just there's there's a lot of he'll be in his game I think he'll be at U18s and have a nice

U18s as well yeah on the small defense point Scott a guy that you've loved this whole draft

cycle is Ryan Lynn and I wonder like as we talk about some of the guys of that profile who didn't

pan out what do you see in Lynn that makes you confident enough that he is different from those guys

to rank him as highly as you do I just think the combination of the smarts and the competitiveness

some of those guys had the smarts none of them really had the competitiveness he's got the offense

he's got the statistical track record the pedigree all of that but it's it's how hard he plays how

hard he competes how smart he is on both sides of it the way that he defends we've talked about

that a lot already on the show but that for me is what sort of distinguishes him from your your

late first or early second round do you at that size like I just think he's one of the very best

players in this age group right now now that doesn't mean he will be one of the very best

NHL players but I think because of how intelligent he is on both sides of it and because of how hard

he plays I have more confidence that he will remain sort of as one of the better players in this

class and I think he's also another he's like he's going to go to U18s and they're going to play him

25 minutes a night on that blue line for Canada and I think that will also help his case after playing

on a pretty poor Vancouver team this year a couple players on your list that we haven't spent a ton

of time on yet this draft cycle and I'm sure we will as it gets closer but that was as good a time

as any is you know with so much focus on Evar Stenberg and on Vigo Bjork out of Sweden but Marcus

Nordmark and Elton Hermenson are also lottery pick range guys for you and I don't think we've

talked about it maybe more than a minute or two so far. Yeah Corey talked last week on the show

about his sort of top eight group I've got a top 12 group and then right behind that top 12

group is Nordmark and Hermenson Nordmark is as talented a winger as there is in this class after

the big two like extremely extremely talented has had some real highs at five or six different

events now with with the Swedish national team five nations go back all the way back to U17s in

Sarnia a year ago has the numbers haven't quite popped domestically like they have internationally

with Nordmark but just very very high end skill package and then Hermenson's got the pro track

record also a very skilled player a little bit bigger a little bit stronger than Nordmark maybe not

quite as dynamic with the puck but can score and Hermenson has the track record of having done it

at a pro level in hockey alspenskin this year and been a really strong contributor for them I think

he scored almost 15 goals for them at that level this year 13 or 14 goals if I'm not mistaken

those two guys I'll be interested to see where they go on draft day I had a conversation with

an amateur scout last week when I was doing a poll for a McKenna piece and I got talking with him

about some of the other wingers and he posed that same question to me of like where do you think

Nordmark and Hermenson go because I like them a lot and they're very very talented but if those

guys are tricky to sort of slot and I think they're probably going to both end up sort of in the

middle of the first round somewhere maybe one of them in the early 20s but they're they're like

once you get past the premium guys they're among the only players that you can look at and say okay

this kid has top six potential power play potential that those kind of tools well then the one last

thing I want to get you with Scott is there is a name on this list that first of all I hope I get

correctly Seamus Ignatavicious and he's from Lithuania and I know that our listeners really love

when guys pop up from unexpected places here so tell me a little bit about Seamus Ignatavicious

please talk about an unexpected place right like this isn't even a kid from Bell like this isn't

already left Shunov this isn't some of the Latvians that have come through in recent years this

is a kid from Lithuania they just they aren't just like a second or third tier hockey playing

country they're a fourth or fifth tier hockey playing country has played a lot of hockey in Switzerland

obviously is now playing pro in the NL with Genevse Served over there and has been a good player like

a regular contributing player for them he's big he's strong he skates well he's very very competitive

he's heavy I don't think there's like he I've seen make some skill places here when I've watched

him on the Insta I don't think he's like a skill guy but he's got quick hands and he's got a

decent release and another guy who scored some goals at a good very good pro level in in the NL

this year but yeah just where he comes from makes it as interesting as anything because he's

he's a unicorn in a lot of ways and maybe we had that a little bit with Brandt's

Ignigard and Solberg but even Norway seems to be producing kids maybe not for the NHL draft but

there are a lot of top scorers in the J20 level for example who are from Norway now and

they're feeding players into this Swedish junior ranks at a decent clip and Lithuania obviously

is not that and they're a world championship too like I know they're not like a top 10 country

but they you know top 15 hockey country Norway is like as Lithuania even in the B pool for the men's

world championship I don't I think I think they are I think they are I think they are I couldn't

sell you on top of my head it kind of reminds of of Liam like god bless him but Liam Kirk

yeah he was interesting but I think like Ignatavicious was a guy that is a good pro scouts

yes scouts were definitely going yes making special trips to see they are in the B pool

just so the art of Lithuania and listeners aren't aren't yeah but the B pool like that's that's

a pretty it's still they're they haven't been up in the senior division for for some time and

yeah I mean like it's it's it's a really interesting I I personally always find it interesting

to see where players are kind of coming from and different you know guys that kind of beat the odds

and and and and our special but yeah I mean like scouts were definitely taking special trips to go see

him in Switzerland I'm sure you had to twist their arm to go over to Switzerland but you know either

way like it's really you know when you see players like this and especially in a year like this

where we're we're you know we're really scraping around for prospects I feel like when we get

in outside of this this first round I think when you start looking at depth there's always

going to be guys that pop but you know when you have this a player with this athletic profile that's

playing aggressively as he is in pro and and with some maturity in his game I think that that's

that's always going to resonate so you know hey yeah I I dare definitely you know I had talked to

the teams a while back that that we're talking about him as a potential you know late first early

second round draft pick which is probably where he ends up and so yeah if you're if you're a Lithuanian

hockey player by way of Texas by birth I believe but you know those are it's a pretty special thing

so he's definitely one of those players I'm I'm gonna be intrigued to see ultimately what happens

with him yeah a name and a story to learn as we start getting closer to the 2026 NHL draft that

is going to do it for us today thanks for listening to this episode of the athletic hockey show

prospect series you're going to of course catch more of Chris over at Flowhockey on his podcast

called up and more of Scott and Corey's stuff on this draft class and many more on the athletic

calm we'll talk to you soon

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