REX April 2 - Ron Park, Marianne Awburn and Natasha & Alan Cave

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Get over and welcome into the Rex Daily Podcast.

Fourth Thursday, the 2nd of April, I'm Dom George in the show,

brought to you by the team at NetSpeed,

o800netspeednetspeed.net.nz.

On the show today, Ron Park is going to join us in just a moment.

Now, he is the chief executive of a health supplements company,

but he also recently won the 2026 Meet Industry Association

Dragon's Den Competition for a New Zealand Red Meat Product Range

with tongue-soft texture for elderly or unwell people.

So, we'll find out what Ron's journey has been to get to this point

winning that Dragon's Den Competition.

We're also going to be having a chat today with Mary Ann Allburn as well.

Her and Rick founded Springarm,

and this was an idea that took out the Field Day's Innovation Awards in 2021.

Since then, this has become a very popular on-farm accessory

in water troughs, the Springarm,

and it's stocked in farmlands.

We're going to talk with Mary Ann about that,

and also we're going to be having a chat today with Natasha Cave

and husband Alan as well.

Natasha is the author of a research project

for wearables on New Zealand hill country beef

on the brink of a tech revolution.

She's called it.

She's also been early adopters of Holter Technology

on their hill country farm,

having Natasha and Alan.

So, we're going to find out how that's gone for them,

and what prompted her to take a more in-depth look

with this particular Kellogg Scholarship Report from 2025.

So, we've also got Natasha and Alan Cave on the show today.

So, that's all coming up for you on the Rick's Daily Podcast.

Plenty to pack in for a Thursday. Enjoy.

We'll exchange.

With that speech.

Outstanding in that field.

Alright, so a New Zealand Red Meat Product range

with tongue-soft texture for elderly or unwell people

has won the 2026 Meat Industry Association

Dragon's Den Competition.

Now, it was won by Ron Park,

and he joins us now on the program.

It's lovely to have you on and congratulations on the win.

Thank you, Dominic. Glad to be here.

Firstly, just set the scene.

So, you are based in Canterbury, correct?

Yes, Christchurch, yeah.

That's right, yep.

And you have a health supplements company.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Yes, so I started this health supplement company

quarter day while I was at uni, University of Canterbury.

And I started that back in 2017

as part of the Entrepreneurship course at University of Canterbury.

And the origin story of that is I was a bit of a hustler when I was young.

So, first of the uni, I started selling New Zealand supplements

into Asian countries such as Korea, where my family is from.

And what happened was that I realised all these New Zealand

supplement companies were actually just importing products

from overseas from China and India,

and sticking a label saying that it's from New Zealand,

made in New Zealand.

Regulation was a bit more freebacked things,

so you can actually claim that it was made in New Zealand.

No, you can't do that.

So, you know, someone that has actually grew up

taking New Zealand supplements all my life,

I can't put like, actually backstabbing my family and friends,

I was selling this to and becoming a liar.

So, that's what I realised.

I wanted to create something that was genuinely New Zealand.

Then I found New Zealand Greenland Muscle,

which was really clinically well studied,

was good for joint health, native to New Zealand.

Right? So, you couldn't fake it.

That's why I started with that supplement.

And now I'm known as the Muscle King,

not like these muscles, but New Zealand Greenland Muscles.

And that's where it began,

and I believe we're coming up nine years now,

so it's been a wee while.

I may look 21.

I'm actually 31.

I was going to say,

I'm like, you've packed a lot in,

because you're honestly, yeah,

you look like you're in your 20s,

I've got to say, but anyway, well done.

I was kidding, but thank you.

Congratulations on that as well.

Something must be working.

The muscles.

It's going to be the muscles, right?

So, what's it about muscles,

the Greenland Muscles that are so beneficial?

Right. So, I can kind of talk in three points.

So, firstly, Greenland Muscles itself,

being from New Zealand cold waters,

you know, we're at bottom of the world.

We have one of the coldest waters,

where Niantaq is going, right?

So, the cold waters allows the Greenland Muscles

to have very high level of omega-3s,

which are really good for you.

And it's unique to us.

Like, you can grow Greenland Muscles from, let's say,

China or India, let's just say,

it's not going to have the same health benefits

as what we have here.

So, our environment is really unique.

And of course, they have unique omega-3s,

such as ETA, eco-tantraomic acid,

which is a secret to why it's so good for joint health.

It has been, a lot of papers around,

it's anti-planetary properties,

and it really helps a lot of people

with arthritis or joint pain,

like, relieve the pain,

so they can actually move again.

Wow, that's great.

So, that's effectively anti-inflammatory properties,

these sorts of things.

Like, actually, I can't believe

that we were repackaging products

from other countries and sending them off.

That's crazy.

I wouldn't have picked it,

but there you go.

You found it out, and you've done something about it.

Good on you.

Definitely.

And, you know, over the last decade,

when I was running the business,

the regulations has changed now,

and you have to write things

like, made from imported ingredients.

But, back then, when I first started,

it was worldwide,

where you could label anything,

you could claim anything,

and people were saying that,

you know, some products were sold in cancer,

and, yeah, yeah.

It was a bit different back then.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, that sort of thing with regulation isn't bad.

Generally, it can be a little cumbersome,

but you need it sometimes, right?

So, tell me,

the key we tend to range

of premium New Zealand red meat products.

What made you firstly decide to go down that road,

and then enter the dragon's den competition

with this key we tend to range?

So, I'll just have to tell you another quick story,

if you've been online.

So, it's a bit of a passion project of mine.

So, you know, imagine sort of your typical kiwi Christmas dinner, right?

You've got your family,

you're heading in roast,

and whatnot.

And last Christmas, I realized that my grandma

wasn't really eating properly.

So, you know, I was just kind of curious,

and I was also asking her,

okay, well, you know, eating a young well,

and I realized that when you get older, as you get older,

you struggle to do a lot of day-to-day things,

and that includes chewing and eating meat.

As you can tell, you know,

meat has fibrous texture,

but elders actually struggle to consume that,

as a younger person,

not young, but younger person.

You don't really think about these things,

and when I learned that I wanted to find a solution for my grandma,

sort of the model that I have for this venture is, you know,

every dinner where everyone can enjoy,

not just selected few.

So, that's sort of the story behind why I wanted to do this.

Obviously, sort of coming from universities or technical background,

I wanted to find innovative ways to make this happen,

not just, you know, make a product.

So, I went back to, I talked to my,

a couple of my business partners,

lecturers from universities,

and whatnot, and found ways that we can tenderize meat.

So, it's tongue-chewable.

I love the word tongue-chewable,

because you can really imagine, right?

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah, so that's the story.

We're early stage.

We've made some lab products at the moment,

but we're getting help from, you know, universities,

Messy, Canberre, and Tiago,

and guys at Anscomre Alliance

to make this really come true.

Because we are not the first to create this Kiwi Tenderization.

We're using New Zealand Kiwi Fruit to tenderize using the enzymes.

There's been a lot of work that has been done before,

but we're just wanting to take it to the next level.

Right.

Okay.

So, go back a step.

Kiwi Fruit.

So, that's the tenderization process.

You use that to be able,

that's sort of the technical process.

Talk me through it.

How does it work?

You've got a lovely bit of grass-fed New Zealand meat.

You want to make it a bit more chewable,

palatable as it were for, you know, the elderly, et cetera.

How do you do that?

Exactly.

So, the Kiwi Tender wasn't just,

it was actually a play on words, you know,

we're from New Zealand Kiwi,

but at the same time,

we're literally using Kiwi Fruit enzymes to tenderize the meat.

So, it's almost like a pre-treatment.

So, you know, you have your lovely New Zealand premium beef,

lamb, venison, you call it,

you will use the extracted Kiwi enzyme,

treat it, almost,

and then the enzymes in Kiwi Fruit

will actually dissolve the meat

and tenderize it during that process.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Okay, so, this is done.

What, prior, you can buy it like the,

when you envisage this on the market,

that process will have taken place.

You then sell that,

that's been, had the Kiwi Fruit treatment as it were on,

and people buy it like that,

ready to, what, then you just cook it,

and it's tender.

Is that the way it works?

Exactly.

That's exactly right.

So, we have other sort of trace secret processes

that we have in between.

So, we'll pre-treat it,

and then we'll further tenderize it using different techniques

that we have come up with.

But, essentially, the final product

will be ready to eat meat.

You can cook it if you want to, like sausages, for example,

but just way better.

Yeah, you can cook it if you want to,

you can eat it straight away if you want to.

So, Ron, what does it do to the,

I guess, the nutritional value, et cetera?

Is there any, is any of that compromised?

In the process?

No, actually, it's better.

So, there's been a clinical trial or work that's been done

by, you know, amazing Kiwis.

So, what has the results from the studies showed that

the hydrolysis or the Kiwi sort of treatment process

actually increases the aroma, the texture,

and also, most importantly, for elderly,

the absorption rate of the protein.

Oh, okay.

It brings it down.

So, it's not just a tenderized meat.

It's actually a bit of product

because, sorry to go into this,

because I'm a little bit passionate.

Elder leaves, actually, as you get older,

you struggle to absorb protein.

And lower amount of protein that eat less,

lower amount of absorption,

meaning that overall muscles decreases,

which results in many different health issues.

So, this treatment will not only just make

a great, amazing product,

but also, at the same time,

make product that is actually absorbable,

more bioavailable,

that will in turn be good for the elderly.

Yeah, right.

The bioavailability, yeah,

that's the key to the whole thing, really,

which is fantastic.

And when you say,

it can be crushed with the tongue.

So, what sort of texture are we actually talking about here?

Yeah, no, that's a really good question.

So, in regards to the tenderization process

and the softness,

so there's actually four different levels.

And I haven't reinvented this well.

It's actually something that has been used in Taiwan

at the moment,

and that's the model that we're adopting.

So, the four sort of levels is,

obviously, you've got your firmness,

like a normal meat firmness.

And then, on the other spectrum,

it's almost a super, super texture.

Yeah.

So, and then you've got the, in between the two.

So, if you can imagine our sort of

key to tender products will sit on this level,

and this level.

So, you'll be able to chew it with your tongue.

Yeah.

Right. So, yeah.

Okay. Well, that makes a lot of sense then.

So, yeah, the idea came from obviously,

yeah, your family and Christmas dinner

and that there.

And so, you've got sort of other examples around the world.

You've dimensioned sort of Singapore.

There are any other like products on the market.

So, there's only one company that's actually commercialized this.

And it's only in Taiwan from my limited piece.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what I can say is that we're going to become the market leader

because via products,

I'll change your photo later,

looks like some lolly you buy from a corner dairy.

Like, it's colourful.

It's like in a little wee,

I don't even know how to call it, like a bag.

And it's got gooey stuff inside,

and like small pellets of meat.

I'll change your photo.

It looks quite disgusting, really.

It looks like, you know, I mean, even pet food is better

than that these days, right?

Yeah.

So, that's their sort of way of doing it.

Highly, highly processed.

And our sort of aim is to bring the whole premium New Zealand meat

as soft as possible,

as it is, not highly processed

and making them to some corner dairy lolly looking thing.

Yeah.

Because that's an important part of it

because people's perceptions of what they're buying

if they want to be going meat,

then they want it to kind of look like meat for a start, right?

Exactly.

I mean, that's the whole thing, right?

No one misses out.

If I were to bring up that Taiwanese product to my grandma,

I don't think she'll eat it.

I wouldn't want to eat it, right?

So, we want her to experience Christmas dinner

or just dinner in general,

where she doesn't feel like she's missing almond.

So, it just needs to look apart, really.

Yeah.

I think that's part massively important.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, what was it like to pitch this to the team

at the Meat Industry Association

and the Dragon's Den Comp

and go through that process?

It was pretty amazing, really.

You're sitting in front of the market leaders,

the thought leaders, the scientists,

people that are the smartest are sitting in front of you

and listening to your pitch.

So, it was quite nerve-wracking, I'll be honest.

I honestly didn't think I would win,

given that all the ideas that were in the finalist panels were

highly innovative, very technical.

So, that's number one.

I was quite nervous.

Secondly, everyone's very supportive.

So, we had the pitch, and then afterwards we had dinner together.

I'd just go, you know, barbecue dinner

because there was a meat in my eye, right?

A lot of good meat there, so we had barbecue.

And everyone was just loved idea.

They just asked me, like, how can you support?

Like, what can we do?

Like, do you need grants?

Funding, blah, blah, blah.

So, it's been a really cool experience,

where it really helped me...

I'll say it like this, Dominic.

If it wasn't for this competition,

I don't think this idea would have gone through.

Oh, wow. Okay.

I'll say that.

Yeah.

From this competition, it's not about the prize or anything.

It's the network and the support that comes with it

that really shapes the future of businesses.

So, yeah, it's been great.

Yeah, that's cool, because I imagine there'll be a scenario

where they will kind of...

Yeah, be a shoulder to lean on, I suppose,

and lend expertise throughout the process.

They won't just go, okay, here's the prize money.

Go and do your thing.

There'll be a bit more, you know, sort of hands-on, maybe.

Yeah, no, one percent.

I've been having multiple, multiple meetings

since the competition.

So, I'm meeting with, you know...

Obviously, EMAA, I'm meeting with the Dins,

which is dear association.

I'm having meetings with Anskell,

like all these guys,

Massey University, Canberra, of course,

are very supportive, yeah.

Yeah, that's cool, because I guess the thing is, you know,

these ideas...

They don't necessarily always come off, do they?

I mean, you've been given the chance.

What do you think is the chance of success of this,

actually, you know, and I don't know,

you tell me the timeframe, but, you know,

I don't know if you've got one,

but actually, this being on the shelves

available for, you know, people in this country

and beyond to purchase.

Definitely, I do have a plan,

which is a good start.

So, first, here for us,

is finalising the product development.

It's getting their MVP ready.

So, we've got a lab trial done.

We want to scale it up slightly,

and actually have product testing.

So, at least to try the product and, you know,

the flavour, profile and whatnot.

So, that's the first year, just getting that done.

And then the second is actually

scaling that up into a pilot plant

where we can actually prove to, you know,

investors or for the community

that we can actually scale this further.

And then the third year is for us to really

fully go commercial into the export markets,

like the Asian markets that we're targeting

and whatnot, yeah.

Great.

That's good.

I like it.

I like it.

Ten grand, I think.

Initially, you get for winning

the Dragon's Den Comp.

So, that'll help, obviously, with, you know,

that phase of it, that sort of research phase, I suppose.

Yeah.

Definitely.

And I'll be, I'm very grateful for this,

but I just have to clarify,

and I hope this message goes out there,

because ten grand is not a lot of money

when it comes to innovative technical products like this.

So, anyone that is listening, you know,

if you're listening, please tell your family and friends,

we need funding.

I'm just going to be very blatantly out there.

I'm not a person who's going to just say,

I want this competition, I'm not going to do anything about it.

I've got ten grand in my cash.

I'm going to do something about it.

And being completely honest, 90s of business,

this is not my first business.

This isn't my first technical

commercialization that I'm doing.

It needs millions of dollars.

Millions of dollars.

And if we want to improve our country's

economy and when it comes to meat through innovation,

because, sorry, I'm going,

but I'm very passionate about this.

What we lack in New Zealand right now

is that we're great at doing primary industries.

But all the money is being made overseas.

They're processing it.

They're selling it.

They've got the margin.

What we need to do as a country

is to increase our products value.

And that's what we want to do.

And we need funding for such as, you know,

tenderised meat.

We'll be able to create margin

doing these innovative things, right?

It doesn't happen overnight.

It needs money.

It needs funding.

So if anyone's hearing this,

please give me your money.

I'm not going to waste it.

I'm actually going to do something about it.

And grow economy.

Well, I totally agree with you.

I think those things have to be looked at.

I guess that's the reason why MIA,

you know, set up something like this

is to get the ball rolling on some of this innovation

and stuff like that.

So good pitch too.

I like that.

Yeah, yeah.

Good man.

How do people get in touch with you?

Should they want to find out more?

You can email me or call me.

I don't really mind, really.

So I'll drop by and draw an email.

Currently, my email that I'm using

is just ron.park, which is my full name,

rm.prk at quarterday.com,

which is the company that I funded

out of University of Canterbury.

So, yeah, all my phone number,

021290, I don't know if I should do that.

Yeah, I'll tell you what.

Let's look at the phone number out, man.

You don't know what kind of can of worms that one will open.

If people Google,

as you say,

the good quarter day was K-O-R-U-R-E.

Yes, correct.com.

Yep.com.

There you go.

You'll find ron that way

and you can find out more about Kiwi Tender,

which is very cool.

It's just one,

as I said at the start there,

the 2026 Meet Industry Association,

and we'll be watching with great interest.

Ron, it's been nice to talk with you all the best with it.

Thank you, Dominic.

Thank you for your time.

All right.

Here's a very clever idea that came to light

at the Field Day's Innovation Awards back in 2021.

We're talking about Spring Arm,

and since that Innovation Award in 2021,

it's become a very popular on-farm accessory and water troughs

that stopped in farmlands.

And we've got one of the founders with us,

Mary Ann Orburn,

who I understand

with husband Rick came up with this.

So we're going to talk about that now.

It's lovely to have you all, Mary Ann.

How are you?

Good, thank you.

How are you?

I'm very well.

Very well.

So where did the idea for the Spring Arm come from?

Well, it wasn't me.

It was my husband's originally.

We're just having so many arms break constantly,

primarily in the drier parts of the year.

And that had been going on for a long time,

because we had been farming in that same area for a wee while

up to nearly 20 years.

And not on the same farm, actually,

but that whole area is quite renowned

for having a poor water supply.

And so basically, if an arm broke

and the troughs overflowing,

it emptied our tanks,

and we just could never catch back up.

And then that led to more arms breaking.

So that's kind of where the out of frustration,

something had to be done.

And I believe Rick basically stood out

in the garage one day and thought,

what if they could flex instead of just breaking?

And the only thing he could see

that could flex was the little spring

that holds up the stand on a motorbike.

And so that's what he grabbed.

And that's how he made the first prototype.

Wow, from a motorbike part.

That's brilliant.

That's really cool.

And that was funny.

And that's just how he is.

He just gets ideas and just has a go.

And he spent ideas initially trying

to put it all together.

That was kind of the challenge.

He was drilling holes through,

he was cutting arms into pieces, basically.

And then drilling holes into it,

putting that spring in.

And there was just no way we could get it to hold.

And anyway, a spring from a motorbike stand

was way too flexible.

Anyway, so it wasn't working initially.

And even if we found some springs

that were a bit stronger,

we couldn't get them to stick onto the arms.

We were not professional welders or anything.

So we didn't actually realize initially

that those two medals don't really stick together that well.

So we got some help from some friends.

But yeah, welding was never the way to go.

So that was kind of the biggest challenge

was just getting to a stage where we could use it.

So it went through different iterations

before you finally came up with the finished design.

Definitely, definitely.

I mean, I remember,

I think we welded something like 50 springs

onto these little bolts

and we were screwing them onto arms.

We were buying things to make threads

onto rods and all this stuff.

And they just kept breaking until we kind of

put the spring directly onto the rod.

And that seemed to work.

And we actually engaged

with the company in Hamilton at the time

who sort of helped us make that thread work.

And that's at the sort of same time.

Just when we were getting to that stage,

that's when I was started to say,

okay, this seems like it can work.

But let's actually test it more properly

because of that stage record dispenser that buying.

Oh, we'll buy one of these springs.

And we'll buy one of those springs

where eventually I kind of went,

okay, let's try it with these five different links

and these five different strengths

and then see which one is going to truly work

because it has to be that perfect balance

between strength to cut the water off

and then flexibility to make it all last.

Yeah, so you brought a bit of order to the chaos?

I think he would agree, actually, yes.

Because he's an inventor,

so he's creative, but perhaps not structured.

Yeah, well, it's a good partnership then.

So how do they work exactly?

Well, so the arm, the head,

it was the other part of it

where that's universal,

so that can fit into anything pretty much

that's out there,

typically in the market in New Zealand.

So you can just put it in like a normal arm

into the ballcock,

replace the arm.

There's a spring bit that allows it to flex

so that it doesn't break when it gets pushed to the side.

And if you compare a normal arm to our arm,

the normal arm is,

you can sort of bend it about six times

and then it will snap.

We've tested our arm up to 25,000.

We had a machine doing that.

That was not a person.

It's going to take a while.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that obviously lasts a whole lot longer.

And not just the arm itself,

but also the ballcock,

whether it's a little teeth that kind of goes out

and holds onto the arm.

That's also protected a bit

in a sense that the arm flexes

not the ballcock.

So it's infinitely better

than what people had to deal with beforehand.

Well, I think so.

And we've had them install an Alfarm now

since basically a year before we launched,

we started installing them into our trucks,

so that's about six, seven years ago now.

And we have had no issues with them at all.

And to the point also,

where the ones that we sell,

we don't really advertise it,

but we do replace broken arms.

As long as we get an image of the broken arm,

or preferably we get the actual arm sent in,

because we like to study it

and see where wired might have broken.

But we haven't had many of those.

So people just take it back to their store.

Where were they bought it?

And if they had one.

So what did winning that

field day's innovation award mean

for the progress of this product

and the business as a whole?

It was amazing.

It meant such a big difference for us.

Initially, we just did it

because there was a cheap way of getting a site

at the field days,

because they can be quite expensive.

And I don't actually know what they are now,

but I think they were like a grant at the time,

which was much, much cheaper than...

There might even have been $500 actually

in the prototype,

because obviously we were in the prototype part of it,

which is where you haven't actually launched your product yet,

but you've got something that people can have a look at

and give some feedback on.

And the great thing about being in that innovation tent

is that that's where...

If you go to the field days,

depending no matter who you are,

people will generally go through there

and be really interested in hearing your stories.

So it was a fantastic way to get our story

and our concept out there.

And we were so well received.

So that was really, really uplifting.

Yeah, I can imagine it wouldn't have been much harm.

It wouldn't have done much harm for business.

So from the winning the prototype

to actually getting it to market,

what was the time frame in around that?

Well, we were almost ready.

We had our product pretty much ready to go.

So I think we got it to market within a month afterwards.

We were just kind of finalizing the website

so that we could actually sell it.

And obviously it just came to see what people had to say

about our product before we launched it,

because what if we needed to just make some final adjustments

and whatnot,

but turned out it was pretty much ready to go as it was.

So yeah, it was really quick.

Afterwards.

And that was fantastic,

because obviously winning it gave us a fair bit of publicity.

So that helped with sales straight away.

People knew what it was.

People were asking for it.

So that's good.

That's a good way to start a business

when people are actually asking for the product

before it's even ready.

I mean, I think there was some good prize money attached

as well that couldn't have heard.

Oh, the prize money was fantastic.

It came right at the right time.

I actually don't know what we would have done without it,

because it was so hard when you're starting a business

as many people would appreciate.

You don't really have anything.

You can't really borrow much money

because you don't have any check record.

So that went primarily on covering all our lawyer bills

actually,

because we had been pursuing intellectual property protection.

So a lot of it went for that.

And then the other half went to buying the first spring arms

so that we could get some out of the door.

Because, yeah, which we've never done this before.

You sort of don't realise how much money you actually

have to spend up front before you can sell the product.

Yeah, because where's the manufacturing done?

Well, we ended up partnering with MetalForm,

which was another really nice thing that came out

of the publicity of winning.

MetalForm is a company based in Denmark.

And they do a bunch of different aquaculture products.

And so they now manufacture and distribute

and do everything for us, basically.

So we don't have a lot to do with the day-to-day running anymore,

which is fantastic, because we love what we do.

So we didn't really want this to become our full-time gig.

So that's what's going to ask you whether or not

that is now actually a full-time thing.

But you've come up with the idea.

You presumably get a cut of what's sold

and the specialist company take care of the nuts and bolts

and springs, so to speak, Marianne.

Yes, for sure.

And they're doing such a great job.

That's what they do every day.

That's what they know how to do.

They've got marketing specialists.

And they change the products slightly

so that it's cheaper to manufacture

because they understood how that process works.

So that was fantastic to get a bit of input from them

and put them to be managing it.

What are they sell for, incidentally?

That varies a bit, sort of, between $25 and $30,

depending on where you go and get it.

But, yeah, we have actually got a bit of a special on.

Anybody wants to?

We've created a special coupon for anyone that's listening.

They can go and go to our online website,

www.springarm.co.nz,

and put in Rex Podcast at checkout as a coupon code

and get 10% off.

Very good.

All right, perfect.

And they're well priced anyway.

So that's great Rex Podcast.

Make sure you do that.

Listeners, those of you that are interested

in purchasing these spring arms.

Now, Marianne, you also have a role with primary

AIG ITO as well, don't you?

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.

People still call us AIG ITO.

We actually primary ITO because AIG ITO

emerged without a lot of businesses seven years ago.

There you go.

Okay, so primary ITO, yeah.

What do you do then?

I'm the agriculture sector manager.

So look after Deary and meet in fiber.

And basically look after the relationships with our customers,

make sure that we deliver what they need

and just keep them finger on the pulse in the industry

to make sure that they have what they want in terms

of vocational training.

For me, this was my dream job.

So I wasn't willing to get it up because I was at a school teacher

originally, which is always wanted to do.

But then also worked on farm full time for a wee while before

I became a teacher and realized I wasn't prepared to leave farming

behind, but also didn't want to leave education behind.

So this is a perfect mixture of the two

and I absolutely love my job with primary ITO.

Yeah, it's great.

That's good to hear actually.

And also in relation to all of that is where you actually write articles

about New Zealand agriculture for a Danish magazine, I believe.

Yeah, I do a bit of writing.

That's something that it happens every couple of months.

Just from a New Zealand, a Danish perspective in New Zealand,

I suppose.

It's always interesting because when I talk about someone,

once I always have to remember to put the months in

because it's the other way around, then at home,

because I'm from Denmark, obviously.

So hence why I can write in Danish to the Danish audience.

That's great.

What do you sort of write about?

Oh, it's just basic kind of, you know,

how the season's been, what's going on.

I mean, my last article was about PC1 here in the Y-CATO,

which was quite a big thing, which we're still waiting, I suppose,

exactly how that's going to come out,

but with the government and having sort of put everything on hold.

Yeah, so just anything and everything, really.

So you're just giving readers in that part of the world

just a bit of an update perspective from what we do here, farming wise.

Yes, for sure.

And it was really interesting when we were talking about the

text on greenhouse gases, because that was huge in Denmark at the same time as here.

And they were keeping a really close eye on what we did, actually,

to sort of, I think everybody around the world was keeping an eye on each other

to see who was going to go first with the decision.

So it's always really interesting to share stories.

Yeah, that's very cool.

We're bestie farm in New Zealand.

We are in the Y-CATO, so just out of telemoto.

So Rick's on the farm, and obviously I work for primary ITOs.

I'm not too involved in the farming life at the moment.

Is he working on anything else, Rick?

Well, there's definitely an idea brewing, but we have struggled to find the time,

because it takes so much time to actually get it to a stage where you can show people.

So watch the space.

Well, that's cool. It's a good story you've got there.

I love the, you know, from the motorbike part right through to the innovation award

and, you know, through to seeing it realised there's a product in the market.

It's, yeah, it's a good story.

You must be, you know, happy with the way things have turned out so far, at least anyway.

Yeah, no, it's been brilliant.

And like I said, we're so grateful to middleform for helping us with that side of things.

And grateful to the field of innovation awards.

That there was even a thing and forgiving us the publicity.

Yeah, the innovation awards for this year, they close on Friday the 24th of April.

And the winners are going to be announced at a private awards function during field days at Mystery Creek

on the 11th of June. That's the Thursday.

So if you want to get those innovation awards in, those interest classes are say the 24th of April.

So you'd probably be encouraging people.

I imagine Mary Ann, if they've got something like you guys did just to, you know,

give it a shot. What's there to lose, I suppose?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Get involved.

I mean, it's a cheap way to get to field days if you want to display your product.

And we never, we were just a normal farming couple from the Waikato.

So never, never discount yourself, even if you think you're not having got a big engine behind you.

You can still do really well if your product is what the industry wants.

Yeah, very good advice. Exactly.

If it's what the industry wants, if it's what the markets after, then there will be space for it.

Absolutely. Very good. Thanks for sharing your story.

I've really appreciate it. Cheers. Thanks for having me on.

We're going to be looking at another one of these Kellogg reports.

We have one last week's bloody interesting two. So we've got, we've got another one for you.

We've got Natasha Cave and her husband Alan with us now.

And Natasha can talk about what her Kellogg topic was, but let's introduce these guys.

Lovely to have you on the program. How are you?

Good. Thank you, Dom.

Yeah, not your bad.

Excellent. So where are you guys farming exactly?

So we halfway between Tika Whitty and Tama Donaue and a little valley called Mukawati.

Mukawati. Okay. Very nice. And there is Rotawai Angus, correct?

Yep. That's correct.

How long have you guys had that for?

Ten years this year.

It's about how long the studs been up and running.

Kicking off ten years, celebrating ten years with our first on farm sale in September.

Oh, good stuff. Okay. So it'll get busy around that time of year.

I mean, it's probably busy about now. Is it what's happening on farm at the moment?

Well, I'm supposed to be the quiet time, but it doesn't feel like it.

Yeah.

No.

Just trying to do maintenance and getting rams and use ready for rams and all that sort of stuff.

Natasha, you had a look at wearables effectively with your Kellogg paper.

So what was the question that you were asking?

I was just looking at the proposition of wearables on beef particularly on our hill country in New Zealand.

It started off.

I changed tack to partway through the Kellogg.

I think I just started off whether I was sort of looking at the value proposition.

And then I decided that was a little bit too tricky.

I kind of realised that everyone's the value that everyone gets out of it is going to be very different.

Dependent on your farm system.

How well subdivided you are, what changes you implement, things like that.

So it kind of ended up being more some recommendations for farmers and industry.

That could be taken away.

And just wear those key areas where on farm that benefits could be seen.

Because Alan, I think you guys were one of the sort of early adopters of I think you got Holter on the farm, haven't you?

Yep, that's correct.

When did you dive into the wearables?

We call it in February 2024.

Right.

It's still pretty new technology, really I suppose, isn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's ever changing beast at the moment, to be honest.

Yeah, for sure.

So what was it that firstly you decided to go down that road and then with Holter?

What was the impetus behind it?

For a start I was spring was probably killing me.

Just so much workload with how our system, what we were doing with all the hot wires.

So that was one of the things and then we were sort of all the rules and regulations that were coming in with all the environment stuff we're going.

How can we keep farming our cows on our whole country?

Keep the cows profitable.

And just be able to keep doing it.

I was reading something earlier from a few years ago.

And Natasha, I think it quoted you in this news article and you're talking about exactly what Alan was saying.

That was around the rules and the regulations.

And that was a big talking point a few years ago, wasn't it?

Because let's be fair, that was exactly what the landscape was like.

Have you guys noticed any change in the last we were?

Well, the rules of the regulation spaces backed off.

It's a bit of a empty void there at the moment.

We're in a bit of a vacuum.

But I think our thoughts are that we just keep getting ahead of regulation.

Just keep doing the good work and hopefully that means regulations, not such a battle.

Yeah, fair enough.

With the wearables, how did you decide sort of which parts of the farm to target what blocks, what paddocks, et cetera, towers and all that sort of stuff?

Talk me through that.

Well, we're a whole farm.

So our whole farm is covered because when we basically looked into it signed up, that's what they were doing.

Covered part of the partnership.

So that was whole farm.

So they figured out all the towers and all that sort of stuff.

And we'll do it.

Don't worry.

Well, that's pretty much it.

Well, I was just saying how did you sort of decide, you know, which parts of the area or which parts of the farm to use it on?

And could we have just started off originally going, we're just going to do cows?

Well, that's what always sort of thinking.

It was just do our, do our cows and go from there and just keep everything else as per saying, but that is since changed.

So our cattle were integrated over the whole farm.

But we don't have a set sheet.

Well, there's cheaper, probably more in the set block, but the cattle were integrated through the whole system.

That's a big chunk of really why the whole farm ended up.

But tells us.

So what changes have you noticed?

What would have been the positives from using them?

Carrying capacity is probably the biggest thing.

Looking at our cattle numbers without dropping performance.

There's an increased performance per say per animal, but we've increased the numbers on the same areas.

They're in some areas here.

I'm just running say my hefers, they run in the same area, but they looked at 20% in numbers with the same performance and same.

What I'm going to do with the steers and that this year.

And then the cows, well, that's lifted about the same 20% but that's a bit harder to work out then because they're over the whole farm anyway.

Right.

And we're going to get into those as well.

So we're not feeding out any manure as much as supplement as hay and silage as we were to get through the winter.

Now that we've got the wearables on.

Right. So definitely advantageous then. Good move.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah.

Anything else you can talk to that you've noticed that would be other people knowing about other farmers in a position where they're going, do we don't we?

Um.

Well, obviously the workload.

I mean, Ellen's been out around that extra 20% kettle and it's not.

Um, it's not killed him.

It's probably.

Hopefully, hopefully reduce the stress slightly than it was.

Um, I work off.

So I'm not there to help.

So, um, wait, you know, to lift by that, that many kettle and not, not increased workloads.

Pretty, pretty impressive.

We actually reduce workload.

Um.

I think I'll pass just towards improve day.

Yeah.

Definitely a lot better pasture quality.

Yeah.

Um, we probably don't notice it ourselves.

Like we do notice it, but not quite the same as it's when other people come on farm and they have a lot of ground.

Well, your grass looks amazing.

Um, you know, when you're loving it every day, you kind of don't, you don't notice it quite the same.

A special country.

Right. Of course. Yeah.

It's like when someone isn't seeing your kids for a while, right?

And they're like, geez, they've grown up.

Even though you're like, I don't know.

It's just the same thing.

Yep.

It's the same for me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, so then how often are you shifting the cows and, you know, that sort of thing?

Every day.

They're on daily breaks.

So they get a fresh break every day.

And I try and back fence them off where I can as soon as I can.

So water and change the limiting factor.

For what we can do for our paddocks.

So, you know, you start where you start.

And then soon as I can.

Um, back fence them off, I will.

So every day you're thinking about them where they are, what you're doing with them.

The next shift.

When it's wet, they'll get two shifts a day.

Right.

And then those breaks work.

He's very much working those breaks on, you know, cattle or cow requirement.

Plus, what grass is available in the paddock and what he wants his residuals to be.

For that time of year.

Carp weight.

What would it, anything there?

The, the average is, when I sat down with you today, the average is pretty much stayed the same out weaning weight.

Some of it like last year with their drought.

The daily gain lifted a little bit while held in the younger, younger cows that lifted the older cows that held.

But I shut those cows down quite early in that dry period.

As soon as the bull come out, I shut them, slowed them right down.

Um, and then I thought I'd be interesting this year, but the same thing is still still much long out average.

Like the overall weaning weight still the same.

But could have carried those extra 30 to 40, 40 cows now that what we had done in the past on the same area with the less inputs.

And we've got a lift then, yeah, total, total kilos.

All right.

Well, that bodes all right.

Then doesn't that seem to be doing the trick?

Natasha, what conclusions did you draw from your, from your, from your research?

Um, around the cow calves, I looked at creek grazing.

Um, in the cow calf situation.

And we, that was probably one thing where we were, we, we were expecting to see a lot that we haven't.

But, I mean, some guys might say a lot of, you know, depending on what they're already achieving.

Uh, but something I didn't look at was the transition period, um, after weaning for those calves.

You know, typically we see them sort of stop doing anything, growing for a couple of weeks after weaning.

What?

Your months, yeah.

Um, and I didn't actually look at that in the report and it's now something I've thought about afterwards.

Um, I think there's probably a benefit there.

Like the calves are very, but it's when we get to weaning, the calves are very, very independent.

Um, you know, they're off grazing away from mum.

So, you know, you still get the ballowing at weaning, but I do think they, they transition away from mum far, far happier and far better.

So we hadn't, we'd stopped weighing our calves after weaning because we got so disheartened because they just don't do anything.

So we've got nothing to compete to, but I think last year they trapped on quite nicely after weaning.

Yeah, you still had a bit of a, a check, but they picked up within a game within a month or so.

Well, yeah, within the month, uh, back to putting on weight again.

So the, um, in the, in the paddock then, um, yeah, obviously, yeah, as you said, the calves, um, yeah, no, no dramas really there.

No, they, they wander off and do their own thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How often do you like ballroom?

Well, so I'm still shifting them out.

Well, when they're on their cows, you still got to shift the, I still got to shift them between paddock to paddock.

So the same, same amount of soil was beforehand.

Yeah.

Those paddocks, the same amount of time, but yeah, yeah, still got letting through the gate and shift the cows and calves.

So you got to be there.

So it's still that regular, regular contact with them.

Regular contact.

So, so, yeah, okay, so some things change.

Other things stay the same effectively.

Yeah, it's just with what you're doing within the paddock really.

You still got to move them between the paddocks, but you know, say that they're back fencing and how you're grazing those paddocks.

There's just a hell of a lot different to what it was compared to previously.

So recommendations then, um, you know, Natasha, that was kind of, you know, you were sort of looking at this, um,

at this system and, um, you know, asking a few questions.

What, uh, what, what sort of recommendations did you pop up with?

Um, there's a big piece of there around pharma learning, right?

Like Ella just alluded to.

It was a big learning curve going from that really extensive grazing system.

Um, into a far more intensive grazing system and having to understand what is partially covers,

what is cattle requirements, what growth rates look like and things like that.

Um, because, you know, you can, it, you can do it right, but it's also quite easy to cock it up as well if you don't quite get it right.

Um, so that, yeah, that learning and throwing the rule book out the window like, he was funny first, first carving,

whether he'd put the brakes in the paddock and he just done it the way he'd always done it.

And then he got halfway through the paddock and he sort of thought to himself, why do I, why do I do it like that?

I don't have to do it like that anymore. I can do it differently.

So, um, just being open to change and learning and learning a whole new system.

Um, I think something that I've thought about afterwards and I didn't actually address in my report is dream-resistant.

So, uh, probably not quite so bad in our system.

We've got the breeding cows and the older stock and still got sheep integrated in the system as well.

But, um, I think if you're looking to go to a just a pure freeze and bull type system, particularly with just younger stock,

um, dream-resistance would be something you need to really consider.

We've got to learn the lessons that we've learned with sheep and not repeat them.

Um, so there'd be something I'd be, if I was doing that system, be seriously looking at.

Um, but like, you know, like, we've got our experience with Holter and we've, we've seen some,

we think they're pretty great achievements with it, but that's just our story.

And that's what's worked for us and worked in our system, but every system is going to be different.

And everyone's going to want to do things differently.

So, um, but I mean, don't copy what we do.

Yeah, read your report, but, uh, yeah, yeah, don't copy necessarily.

Well, that's the thing, right? Um, and yeah, it is, uh, horses for courses.

Um, and even if you're armed, different, and every climate, different, and, you know,

you've taped that into account when you're making it work, making it work for your own system.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

And, you know, paddocks now are not a paddock.

You don't look at a paddock the same way you used to, you know, just put them in there, say 10 days,

worry about them in 10 days, but now you're thinking about them every day.

Where they going to, how am I going to run them?

Where can they get around access to water, access to shade?

How, uh, how they move around the hills?

How, how can they get from there back to there?

Things like that.

You don't just slap a line up in the middle of the paddock and say, see you later.

It was, uh, my, my knee and bed.

Yeah.

So.

No, don't walk there.

So I should, should be right.

But you still got, you still got to think about it.

Can I, if I was putting a hotline up, would you walk there again?

Can you, could it, is it possible?

Yeah. It's a good point.

So it's not like, uh, yeah.

So there's changes.

It's not like, um, yeah.

As you say, you just sort of slap it up in a way they go.

There's, uh, yeah.

There's still.

You've got to think about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Definitely.

Now, are you still, um, involved with, um, the environment group?

I think we're in the touch.

Are you doing something with the one group?

Yeah.

A general manager for the one low region catchment collective.

That's my, my day job.

My own fund job.

Right.

Yeah.

Very good.

Yeah.

And, um, I think you're on the, um, beef and lamb, um, Northland, uh, Northern North Island

Farmer Council.

I think that Northern North Island Farmer Council.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, yeah.

Um, yeah.

Um, yeah.

So still doing all that stuff in the background as well.

Yeah.

What are the big issues around there at the moment that you see?

Feel positive.

Staying on more.

Feel price and then what's going to be a big lift and food was a price?

And we just had the helicopter here on Sunday.

So I'm guessing that Bill's going to have gone up and he give a lot.

And the last couple of weeks.

Yeah.

Um, the first, uh, price is just, it's inevitable.

Isn't it that it's going to rise?

Um, I think there's been a few whispers of people saying, oh, no, it's, it's all right.

We were good for now.

We've got this like, yeah, come on.

Please.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Actually, um, product prices are good and interest rates aren't too high yet.

So, you know, it's not all bad.

No, certainly isn't.

And they are very uncontrollable things or suppose all you can do is, um, you know,

control what's happening on your property and, uh, and that's about it really.

Yeah.

Pretty much.

Yeah.

100%.

And that was out of why we went down the wearable road was to shore our business up.

Um, for the future, you know, we went through farm succession.

Um, I do sometimes wonder where there's a bit of a perception that we had lots of money

and we're able to do this and we're just kind of, you know, doing it for, you know,

whatever, lazy, whatever.

Um, that wasn't the case, you know, we, we gone through farm succession and we needed

to make sure our business was going to be profitable in the future and be able to

withstand the next downturn, which we were hoping was going to be a little bit further away

from the last one, from the last one.

Not straight into it.

But that was a big, it was, it was kind of like a single swim for us really and we've,

you know, we had to make the wearables work, we've had to make them pay for themselves

and ending some is the idea.

Yes.

Exactly.

And, um, so far so good on that front.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, with the breeding system, it takes a couple of years to actually see the benefits

in the bank account.

Um, but, you know, when you're looking at an extra 10 ton of Wayne calves on the ground,

um, that we will hopefully go through and finish that additional 10 ton as well.

It starts to stack up pretty, pretty quickly.

It just gives you more options because we were pretty halter as probably looking at sort

of dropping more cow numbers back and then probably selling a few weeners and things

like that just to make things easier.

But we've now looked at cow numbers and now we'll carry everything through, at least carry

through the through the first winter and see what the systems like out the other side

if prices are right, you know, might store a few of the, um, cultivars and things

like that.

They're just giving us more options instead of being sort of stuck.

Okay, we're going to do this.

I can carry them through the winter now without the extra workload, without the feeding out

and all that sort of stuff.

So I can do that and then get to September and go, um, try and make a call there.

Do we carry?

Do we keep going?

Yeah, just try, try, hopefully this gives us a few more options on how those things.

Bit more flexibility in the system.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Um, and you just mentioned there just to finish up on, yeah, you, as I said at the start,

you guys were early adopters and you're spoken about some of the, um, you know,

you put this on the farm and some people, well, yeah, we'll sort of look at you and go, yeah,

look, look at these guys who do they think they are type them, but, you know,

it's becoming more ubiquitous now, um, you know, and, uh, but in those early days,

yeah, did you have to, I mean, it's not like you have to convince people because it's,

you know, what you were doing.

But was it, was it that kind of that semi awkward at times that kind of, you know,

doing that?

We don't tell anyone that we were putting holder on the farm until the collars been on the

farm.

Yeah, exactly.

We'll be just keep it very quiet on the downline because, yeah, we were a bit concerned

about what the perception was.

Um, but I think you've got, I think you've got to not worry about that sometimes and just

do what you think is best for your farm and your business and there's always going to be people

that want to bring things.

So the certainly changed over the last 12 months.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the two towards it has changed immensely.

You know, when, from when we first collared, it was a lot of, um,

well, what house is going to hold our beef cows?

This will never hold my beef cows.

And now it's moved to, how can we implement this into our system?

What does that look like?

And how do we change our system?

And how do, you know, the whole, and that's quite a quick shift in thinking.

Um, that we're, or attitude that we've seen from other people.

So, um, quite interesting.

Yeah, it's sort of snowballing away, but yeah, it is interesting.

Good stuff.

Um, thank you for your time.

Um, this morning, guys, both of you, I really do appreciate it.

And thanks for the insight into all of that.

Um, good luck for September as well with the sale.

Um, sure it'll go well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You're doing things right.

So, um, no, bloody good to talk to both of you.

So thank you very much.

Appreciate it.

All right.

Thanks.

And today's rural focus.

I can tell you that the Prime Minister Christopher Luxin has announced changes

to the ministerial lineup.

And, uh, they include a new minister for the environment.

And a new associate agriculture minister as well.

So, Nicola Grig, who is held the associate to Ag Minister Portfolio,

specialising in horticulture.

She's held that since 2023.

She has now been named Minister for the environment.

So, well, into here.

And, uh, she can be farmer and whited up at MP Mike Butterwick.

He has been named Minister for Land Information and Associate Minister of Agriculture.

So, there are the main, uh, dealings to mention today.

Uh, and so far as that ministerial lineup is concerned re-agriculture.

Now, that's our show for today, everybody.

And, uh, that's it for the week as well.

Of course, say enjoy your Easter break.

And, uh, big thanks to, uh, all those contributors to the program today.

And for everyone listening as well.

And, of course, to net speed, your local phone and internet provider

with packages available right throughout New Zealand.

Seriously, good service.

No wonder they have so many five-star reviews.

Oh, 800 net speed, net speed.net.nz.

We will catch you all back next Tuesday.

Room will exchange with net speed.

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