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On this episode of Next on the Tee, two compelling guests join the show to share incredible golf stories, insights into the future of the game, and the technology shaping modern performance.
Leading things off is golf industry veteran Rich Katz, a man who has spent more than three decades representing PGA Tour players and helping shape the business side of professional golf. Rich is the Founder of The Buffalo Agency, a division of Billy Casper Golf, and during our conversation he shares memorable stories about his close relationship with golf legend Billy Casper, along with insights from his decades inside the professional game. Rich also talks about the incredible surge in golf participation since the pandemic, exciting companies he encountered at the PGA Merchandise Show, and how AI and new technology are influencing golf instruction, golf equipment, and the future of the game.
Then we turn to one of the rising talents in our game, Jenn Whaley, the Senior Product Manager of Golf Balls at Callaway Golf. Jenn gives us a fascinating inside look at the technology behind the new Callaway Chrome Tour golf ball, that's generating faster ball speeds, what cross-seam and in-seam means for aerodynamics, and how the team at the Ely Callaway Performance Center continues to push performance forward for players of all skill levels. Jenn also discusses the growing number of women entering the game, creative golf ball designs, and how equipment innovation can help golfers play better and enjoy the game more.
Between Rich’s decades of golf industry experience and golf stories from the PGA Tour, and Jenn’s insights into golf technology, golf equipment, and modern performance design, this episode delivers an entertaining and informative look at the people and ideas shaping the future of golf.
Tune in for another great conversation where golf legends live and your game gets better, filled with engaging golf stories, golf tips, golf instruction, insights, and perspectives from the people helping grow the game we all love.
#GolfPodcast #NextOnTheTee #GolfLegends #GolfStories #GolfTips #GolfInstruction #PGATour #CallawayGolf #ChromeTour #GolfEquipment #GolfTechnology #GolfIndustry #WomenInGolf #GolfInnovation #GolfLife #GolfCommunity #PGA #GolfPerformance #PgaMerchandiseShow
Welcome to Next on the Tea with Chris Mascarro, the show where you get the
inside access to the best minds in the game. Each week Chris has the privilege of
chatting with top instructors, legendary players, course architects, and industry
insiders. If you're looking to improve your game, gain a new perspective or
just hear some incredible golf stories, you're indeed in the right place.
You see Chris, let me tell you something I haven't spoken to a fresh man in my
life that is knowledgeable, seriously, as you are. Never. You do such a great job,
it kind of makes me feel good all of a sudden. You do so much for the game,
you're so kind to all of us that are out there in the game. You know, we need more
people like you in the game ago. Thank you for pressing play. Now grab your clubs,
step up to the tea and let's get started. This is Next on the Tea. Hi folks and
welcome into this edition of Next on the Tea where golf legends live in your
game gets better. I'm your host Chris Mascarro and I am so glad that you press
play and you're a part of this week's show. I've got two wonderful guests that I
can't wait to share with you. One is a legend in the golf industry. He's done so
much from representing tour players to founding a legendary company. The other is
a legend in the making. Her enthusiasm, positive demeanor, competitive spirit,
have all built an incredible foundation. She is well on the way to being a
huge success. I know you're gonna agree with me when you hear her segment. So who
are these two people? Well, you know what? The first one is Rich Cat. Rich is one
of the most wonderful and supportive people that you'll ever meet. He has been a
great supporter of this show. Very kind to me over the years. He spent over 30
years representing PGA tour players. He is the founder of the Buffalo agency which
is a division of Billy Casper golf. Rich and Billy were very close friends over
the years. You're gonna hear some of those stories. During other parts of our
conversation, Rich shares the thoughts that he has on the tremendous growth that
we've been seeing in the number of people playing golf, particularly since the
pandemic. He tells us about some of the up-and-coming companies in the game
that he spent some time with at the most recent PGA Merchandise show plus the
enhancements that AI is making within our game. You'll understand why I say he's
a legend when he joins me here and just a moment. Following him is a great young
woman who I know is gonna do amazing things over the course of her career
because she's already done some great things to this point and that's Gen
Whaley. If our last name sounds familiar, it should. She's the daughter of one of
my all-time favorite guests, Suzy Whaley. Now, Gen is the senior product manager of
golf balls for Callaway Golf. During our time together, Gen tells us what's
new with the Chrome tour golf balls for 2026 and about the technology and the
faster ball speeds that they've been able to create. You'll hear things about
like cross-seam and inseam and why they matter. They're fun creative styles on
the cover of their golf balls that they're putting out plus that you can
customize it by the way. Plus the Eli Callaway Performance Center and what
it's like there. Then we get into the explosion of women coming into our game
since 2019. Now look, Gen is just so wonderful. She's positive, enthusiastic,
energetic. Those are Whaley family traits. I'm excited that she's back in a part
of the show. I know you're gonna love her. So folks, I got a great show in
store for you. Thank you again for pressing play and being a part of it
with me. Sit back, relax. Let us take your mind off everything else going on
in your life for the next hour or so. Folks, one quick thing before we get started,
you know how important the podcast algorithms are. Wherever you're listening,
if you would take just literally a couple of seconds to subscribe to the show
and leave a rating. Those two quick things make all the difference with
getting this show in front of more people on this platform. I really appreciate
it and I really appreciate you. Okay, you know, I like to get things started
shouting out the wonderful people that helped to sponsor this show, starting with
my great friends over at the trip. TribLive.com is the leading news website in
Western Pennsylvania with news around the clock, Pittsburgh Pro Sports
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next on the tea with me is Rich Katz. You guys hear me talking about having a
large dose of vitamin G for gratitude all the time. I'm grateful to be able to do
this show. I'm grateful for you for pressing play and grateful for the
wonderful guests that join me each and every week. I am doubly grateful for
Rich Katz. Rich is one of the great people to get to meet in the golf industry.
He's been a wonderful supporter of the show over the years and a great
counsel to me as well. He always keeps tabs on what's going on with the show.
He's always there with a helping hand or a kind word and when those things come
from a giant in our industry humbling isn't strong enough as a word for it.
If you're not familiar with Rich's background let me hit some highlights for
you. Going back to the late 1980s Rich was the vice president of
marketing for corporate sports battle and ESPN. He spent over 28 years as
the senior vice president of pinnacle enterprises managing and representing
PGA tour players in 2001. He founded the Buffalo Agency a division of Billy
Casper golf. He's now leading his own strategy and consulting organization
catch strategy helping organizations with marketing public relations and
content strategy. He is one of the kindest and most generous individuals that
you'll ever meet and I am grateful to have him back with me again today here on
next on the tee. Hi Rich thanks for coming back on the show. All right now back in
next on the tee with me is Rich Katz. You guys hear me talking about having a
large dose of vitamin G for gratitude all the time. I'm grateful to be able to
do this show. I'm grateful for you for pressing play and grateful for the
wonderful guests that join me each and every week. I am doubly grateful for Rich
Katz. Rich is one of the great people to get to meet in the golf industry. He's
been a wonderful supporter of the show over the years and a great counsel to me
as well. He always keeps tabs on what's going on with the show. He's always
there with a helping hand or a kind word and when those things come from a
giant in our industry humbling isn't strong enough as a word for it. If you're
not familiar with Rich's background let me hit some highlights for you. Going
back to the late 1980s Rich was the vice president of marketing for corporate
sports battle and ESPN. He spent over 28 years as the senior vice president of
pinnacle enterprises managing and representing PGA tour players. In 2001 he
founded the Buffalo Agency a division of Billy Casper Golf. He's now leading
his own strategy in consulting organization Katz strategy helping
organizations with marketing public relations and content strategy. He is one of
the kindest and most generous individuals that you'll ever meet and I'm
grateful to have him back with me again today here on next on the tee. Hi Rich
thanks for coming back on the show. I appreciate the kind words Chris the
pleasure's all mine. Look forward to having the conversation for the next I
don't know however long it lasts. I appreciate that. Rich I don't think there's
anyone that's more plugged into the golf industry than you are and at a high
level I wanted to get you thoughts. What do you think the state of the golf
industry is right now? It is amazing and I think it'll continue to be
amazing. Chris you probably remember throwing it out there 10 12 years ago
maybe even sooner pre-pant right before the pandemic. There were headlines all
over the place golf rest in peace with the tombstone I mean it was it was in
bad shape rounds were down horses were closing at a much more rapid pace than
opening there was deferred maintenance with respect to courses built in Tiger
Woods heyday and that heyday was 1986 to 2005 and COVID brought a correction
like no other it's a shame that it had to take a pandemic to do so but you
know America and the world were relegated to be in indoors and golf was the only
place the only social space where that can be social distancing and that's
continued since the pandemic rounds of golf played at US courses climbed to
another all-time high in 2025 it's it it really just extends the most
sustained periods of elevated play that golf has ever seen so for the six
consecutive year Americans played more than half a billion rounds nationally
that's unmatched in golf history which is I can't tell you how rewarding it is to
be part of an industry that has made such a wonderful comeback the beauty of
it is Chris that the stickiness is there so if we look at you know those golfers
who have started in this game during the pandemic after one year or shall I say
one year after hitting their first ball ever 80% of those new to the game stay
with the game and 75% of those enjoy golf two years after their first
experience so again we haven't realized such an influx of golfers since Tiger
Woods heyday and it's done wonders for the industry it's done wonders for the
socialization of America it's just it's done wonders for golf course owners and
operators who finally have the cash to reinvest in projects capital projects
that it's deferred for so long so you know I'm one of these guys Chris and we've
known each other a while I don't know if you know this about me I'm one of
these guys that the check is rubber until it clears the bank I can really really
optimistic that this trend is going to continue with self assurance rich you
mentioned the word socialization and I just recorded an interview and it'll
come out after after this one but I spent some time with former Kansas City
chief wide receiver Eddie Kenneson and Eddie talked about how he and his
12-year-old son have started to go out to play at places like top golf they
they enjoy getting out there it's a it's a more social environment there's a
lot of things you can do you can eat and drink and play and have some fun at
places like top golf but that then transitioned them out to the golf course
and now they're starting to play golf that way it's interesting to me the
profound impact that places like top golf and similar places along those lines
have brought people into the game that never would have done it and to your
point now they're transitioning to out there playing so they fit their first
golf ball perhaps at a top golf but now that has transitioned them out to a
traditional golf course and we're keeping those players I just think that's
wonderful it is it is you know for for better or worse the novelty of top golf
it's kind of wearing off we've all read about that however it's offset by the
entry of God knows how many indoor golf facilities with simulators there are
lounges popping up left and right and that's really a positive sign because it
makes golf year-round in areas where it's just way too frigid to play for six
months out of the year so it's it's got this socialization like no other and
it kind of levels the playing field that you don't really need to be that good
of a golfer to enjoy your experience and what I really like about golf today
and a top golf had a lot to do with ushering this in is there's a relaxation of
golf today more than yesterday there are rules on behavior and attire it's t-shirts
and jeans and that type of conduct is deemed acceptable nowadays there's
Bluetooth speakers out there stuffiness unless it's the creme de la creme of
private clubs the five percent or shall we say clubs are getting younger and a
lot of that Chris like like you intimated as due to top golf and that is is just
wonderful there are zip lines there's paint and drink nights there are full
slates of programming for young professionals and family and then there's the
influx of technology it's easier to book a t-time there's a company called
Notify that's the open table or Rezzi of golf t-times it's hot young and old
golfers even yes I don't forgot how old you are but I'm getting up there even
we're taking to technology technology to improve our game AI technology to
improve our game AI to improve the time you have before during and after
round we are in at a pinnacle of the experience economy with all these
injections of technology to make our games better and more enjoyable and
therefore we play more frequently again it's a wonderful time to be in golf
and I've been through this cyclical tiger woods to expensive recession and
now it's roaring like tiger did back in the day it's pretty darn cool it really is
and you mentioned simulators and that's another thing the prices of
simulators are coming down people are putting those in their basements they're
enjoying those kinds of things with their as a family and with the kids neighbors
are getting together to have simulator rounds of golf together and those
simulators can double as a as a movie theater kind of projector you can do a
lot of things play video games on them I think that's another thing that is
really starting to draw people into our game as well my shout out to my friends
over at Unicorn for what they're doing I think that's another thing that is
gonna continue to get cheaper and cheaper over the years and allow more and
more people to do that in their homes oh 100% and you see clubs that were just
begging for business pre-pandemic now have weightless I call it the
neighboring effect people want to stay closer to home have their social group
closer to home and that's the cause and effect of the pandemic and you know
you know Chris you know I you know you we watched the president speech last night
you know with all that's going on around the world you know we have a world
that's right with conflict there's negativity and uncertainty golf is
converting you know this we'll call it proverbial or actual misery into
company spending time with friends spending time with family around activities
like golf I mean they're hitting high water marks at historical levels it's a
sense of belonging in a world that's made up of funny funny creatures finally
we have an outlet for like-minded enjoyment rich at the top of the game at the
professional level kind of wanted to get your thoughts because as our PGA and
LPGA professionals are growing the game as more people are coming into it we're
developing such high-level players and I talk to college coaches and and guys
that are working and ladies that are working with the tops as they're making
their way up through the ranks of the PGA and the LPGA tours so much great
talent is out there but I kind of feel like the PGA tours losing its way a little
bit want to get your thoughts because as we are growing more and more talented
players all of a sudden now we hear fewer tour cards no Monday qualifiers you
know smaller coming up next is one of the bright young stars in our game Jen
Whaley before I bring Jen into the show I want to give a shout out to our friends
over at on point golf folks get the number one ball marker and the game of golf
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today and this year get ready to experience a game like never before at the
keep the brand new Bill Bergen and Reese Jones co-design course at Maclamore
nestled high a top look out mountain the keep offers breathtaking vistas
that are made even more spectacular as the autumn colors paint the landscape
in rich use of red orange and gold with its challenging layout and on spiring
views every round here is an unforgettable adventure whether you're taking on
the signature holes are just soaking in the scenery the keep is where your best
golf meets nature's finest backdrop so grab your clubs and join us up at
Maclamore the keep is open and it's waiting for you and folks if you haven't
tried to under yet you really need to why well from the first tee to the
clubhouse two-unders Joey Pouch is gonna keep you comfortable and locked in
all-round or all day build your own bundle by going online to two under
that's the number two you and dr dot com and save up to 20% fields all of that
sort of thing and and I kind of scratch my head at a time when we have such
great talent in our game why are we giving them fewer opportunities to achieve
their dreams and to get out there on the PGA tour I just don't understand
where the mantra has been grow the game and they're doing that but it seems
like at the highest levels we're kind of lopping some of that off I believe
that the leadership of the tours is more focused on unification of the
tours with the entry of live golf and the entry of TGL it's bifurcated and to
spend more time on trying to figure out and jockey for which players play which
tour it could very well be taking its toll on focused operations and how do we
bring back the glory days right now with live and with the PGA tour it's
incredibly diluted so it used to be a one-stop PGA tour we'll call it monopoly
and I don't mean that in a pejorative way but now many of the best players
don't show up every week on major networks so everyone's trying to find
its way and I believe it's short-changing those golfers who used to have a
singular path to start them and lots of playing opportunities in a structured
way I think the eye has been taken off the ball and it's a shame there's more
money in golf now live has proven that and I again I believe focus needs to
be on the players rather than you know kind of beating each other over the
head to see who's got the greater flex so those are my thoughts you know back
in the in the heyday it was very structured and now even I in golf all day
every day often struggle because my attention is focused on too many tours
that I can't really get into only one and simplify my life meaning the PGA tour
of yesterday because I have distractions of you know from other tours
Rich I want to take a couple of the things you just talked there a little bit
further first you talked about how we have a lot of top players not showing up
every week out on the networks and not on the different PGA tour tournaments we
have a classic example this week the cognizant classic used to be the Honda right
we've only got eight of the top 50 players that are going to be in the field
this week now that certainly gives opportunities to others to do well and to
make a name for themselves but at a time when Honda drop being a sponsor and
cognizant comes in I'm not sure if I'm the CMO of cognizant how happy I am
right now to see that the majority of the big name players I think Shane
Lowry might be the the top-ranking player in the field that doesn't feel very
good if I'm a sponsor of the tour right now money is the root of all good and
money is the root of all evil Chris I ask you would you play in 30 tour
events when you could make the same money you used to when you played in 30
tour events in 15 tour events now play 15 yep get the live players they're
only playing 15 the money is so big that at some point you say I value time at
home I value time with my family value time with my friends close to my home why
would I get on a plane to pay to play anything but the majors and those golf
courses that I really really enjoy yeah great point I think that's spot on
and the other thing that you talked about Rich is because there are so many
tours looking out into the future how do you feel about where the PGA tour
where live golf is the DP World Tour do you think those things ever kind of
come together it feels to me like live is doing a great job out there
internationally and we can ignore it here in the States because of all how we
feel about the Saudis and politics and all of that and we can hate all of that
but when you look at how they did out in Australia at the Adelaide tournament
how they've done and the crowds that they've drawn over the years it's been
amazing I almost feel like live in in DP or are a better marriage than live in
the PGA tour I don't know what are your thoughts where do you see it going I
don't know usually I have a strong opinion one way or the other but since
quasi-retiring I haven't been in those rooms I do think that live enjoys more of
a global field week by week and therefore they have a greater international
appeal when they go to Australia or they go to Singapore or wherever they go
in this year and remember there's only one PGA tour Australia doesn't have one
it has an Australian tour Australia Asian tour which is strong but nothing's
like the PGA tour so live is going to have more competition here than anywhere
else and hence that's why we're getting these crowds in Australia and plus
the tour has been so rooted here in North America that it's really tough for
someone to overthrow the PGA tour as live is experiencing right now that it
should rely on a global circuit more than just the U.S. because there is much
less competition at the level of John Rom and Dustin Johnson Ham Smith and
others rich switching gears a little bit I had the privilege of spending some
time with you at the PGA merchant I show this year it's always one of the
highlights there when I get those few minutes with you I I wanted to kind of
get your thoughts this year's show felt bigger and more jam packed to me than in
the past what what are your thoughts about what you saw this year at the show it
was fabulous now again I revert back to Tiger Woods days and even going back to
my first show in 1991 those shows back in the days believe it or not Chris were
probably four times the size of what it is today maybe three times the size of
what it is today that's before Asia or Japan rather had its own show China had
its own show Europe got much bigger and people were saying why am I coming to
the PGA show when it's too big for me and I don't have to travel that far so
flash forward when that transformation happened the show was down down down down
down and now with the rise in participatory golf the rise in technology usage in
golf not just by golfers but by golf course owners and operators it's coming
back with a roar you know Sherry Major we love Sherry Major who runs the media
center there one of the key indicators is media attendance media attendance
was up significantly last this year rather to the point where it's been the
best in about ten twelve years according to Sherry and that's a wonderful
sign there's a lot of smarts coming into golf and that's that was bound to
happen because a lot of really smart people on the business side follow trends
and golf is trendy golf is getting younger and therefore there's more lifetime
value from millennials and maybe guys my age or shall I say our age so the show
is roaring with a comeback of epic proportions there are apparel companies
like a putnam on the women's side that has become a country club darling that is
new it's a resort to sport collection it's not stuffy it's not boxy shirts for
women really cool the influx of more club activities into the PGA show like
pickleball pedale to a small degree and tennis that's evidenced by a company
called boast coming in boast was the brand in I think it was the early 70s
worn by a lot of players in the US open kind of the original tennis brand is
making a comeback really really cool and quite frankly you have companies like
fairway IQ that measures pace of play you have AM golf which is the all
inclusive golf app you have the genius golf ball I don't know if you saw this
Chris but it is genius yes electronics embedded in a ball like a launch
monitor in a ball and they have it for putting right now but it'll graduate
to something even bigger and better moving forward for drivers for wedge
play there's landscape golf management had a big presence in party landscape
golf management is one of these multi-course operators that has a portfolio of
70 plus properties that it operates you have light speed golf which is the
number one provider of advanced golf management software and credit card
processing I mean it is it is unbelievable Williams athletic club is another
women's brand that's incredibly hot it's by it was brought to us by one of the
leaders and textiles formerly with Eritzia Lululemon and Nike so there are a
lot of entrance in golf and there are a lot of people coming from outside golf
adjacent industries or verticals to golf that are lending both flare professionalism
and sophistication you know golf has a rap or had a rap that it was 20 years
behind from a business operations standpoint airlines hotels and rental
car agencies and it is closing the gap and it is closing the gap fast I want to
get your thoughts because you've talked a lot about the technology and what
we're seeing coming into our game AI is something I think we're all sort of
intrigued by maybe a little bit scared of but we're seeing it coming into the
golf space as well where do you see AI's future within the golf industry I
it's already happening on the business side you see I mentioned notify which
is the open-take evil or resi for golf t-times notify came out with an AI
booking assistant so staff that is inundated at the counter in the pro shop doesn't
need to make people wait online because the AI assistant picks up and it is
amazing and then you look at a small company but very quietly successful by
the name of par one it's a golf technology company that will soon transform
how golfers will analyze and improve their game performance so this this
company par one with offices in New York and Knoxville of all places Knoxville
is called Ava golf AVA golf and what that will do and I anticipated coming to
the market in next three four months I sometimes have the inside scoop Ava
golf compiles golf for swing data from gathered from simulators launch monitors
and on-course play it transmits it to an Ava golf app and via AI it creates
personalized playlists of video recommendations to fix swing flaws and this
is very insightful it's very intuitive so watch out for Ava golf brought to
you by par one it is really cool I am so privileged and grateful to get a
sneak preview of that and that is the way it's going it's not cheating it's
giving people the ability to play better enjoy the game more compete to be
the best version of themselves and play more frequently what more can we ask
for nowadays it is so cool what's going on out there whether you know the
inner workings behind the scenes of AI and it's application of golf or you
don't we're all a benefactor so if I'm a PGA or LPGA professional hearing what
you just said I'm probably getting a little bit nervous that AI is coming for me
is it absolutely not it'll augment the coaching capabilities of PGA
professionals and others who are very insightful in their teachings it will not be
a replacement it'll be an asset and an aid to their thought process their
methodology and they will work it into their routines big time remember these
are based on data data doesn't lie so if coaches can infuse their teaching
methodologies their routines and their brilliance with data that is sure fit
with little margin of error to help their games it's the perfect connection for
data and AI to team with coaches and for coaches to team with data and AI
coaches will embrace this mark my word because if they don't they'll be replaced
if they do they'll double or triple their lesson books and their rates because
they will be that much more effective with indisputable data and
interpretation as they position these golfers in person really cool time to be
in golf so from the 40,000 foot level rich including everything we've talked
about here in the golf industry the various professional tours when you look
out at the landscape do you see a gap anywhere that needs to be filled or any
place where the powers that be better start paying attention to kind of like
what you just mentioned a moment ago with the AI but are there things out there
that you you see that there are gaps that someone needs to come in and fill or
like I say the the people at the higher levels within the industry better start
paying attention to or you know things could come off the rails yes I think
golf is recession resistant but not recession proof so the warning to golf
course owners and operators and remember equipment companies wouldn't be here
Calaway wouldn't be here Taylor made wouldn't be here if it wasn't for golf
course operators although we are recession recession resistant we're not
recession proof do not and this is my plea to golf course operators owners and
operators do not do not price ourselves out of the game of golf do not charge
too much for green fees do not charge too much for dues make sure they are
in line with the consumer price index with inflation and other variables that
impact our households and lives yes there's latte that I bought from Starbucks on
December 30th is now 25 cents more 35 cents more on January 1 but
it's not a dollar 50 more so be cognizant that you need to grow equal to the
rate of the economy not faster than the economy there are so many pressures
out there to put food on the table a roof over people's heads and yeah golf is
the last thing people will give up but if we price ourselves too high in the
marketplace compared to other activities and compared to our daily needs
wow I don't want to be here when that happens well I think and I think you're
spot on with that rich as if it's almost like kind of the mistakes of the
past right I mean I think some of the labels that used to get put on our game
decades ago was it was an elitist game as it was only to sport everything was
very expensive and I'll tell you here in the Atlanta area I have seen the same
courses that I used to play and pay somewhere between 40 and 60 dollars for
a round of golf are now over a hundred dollars a round of golf you know
down there in and around Orlando got a lot of friends that play down in that
area and once upon a time there used to be a golf course on just about every
street corner and they could go play for somewhere between 30 and 50 dollars and
they can't get on the place for less than 80 or a hundred and when I talk to
operators they've got full tee sheets so they're like you know it's kind of
like the law of supply and demand well demand is high so prices high but I feel
like we are starting to edge ourselves towards going back to where we used to
be and used to be in a very expensive sport to go play and I worry about the
same things that you just pointed out yeah now you're right now the great
offset it's amazing I've seen several golf courses and let's make the
distinction these are golf courses not country clubs but adding amenities that
Jason took off so I remember a buddy of mine in the Pacific Northwest just kind of
regular golf course man it's a daily fee course it's solid probably a little
higher than middle of the road and he just built 18 pickable courts because he
realizes that he can only you know based on the quality of the golf course he
can only charge so much so how does he draw people to do two activities in one
day or if they're not in the mood to play golf come out and do play pickle
ball and not golf or golf not pickable options now I'm not talking about the
Cheesecake Factory menu that's 20 pages and super overwhelming I'm talking
about something that keeps them coming keeps them coming often adjacent to
golf and stops them from going to the golf course down the street that may
be underpriced and one dimensional rich just a couple more before I let you go
and I want to switch gears on you because like I mentioned in your intro you
founded Billy Casper golf and mr. Casper and Gary player were the very first
guests on the show all the way back in 2013 mr. Casper joined me a few
times before he passed and he was just one of the kindest people that I'd ever
had an opportunity to meet and talk with talk about who he was and the
relationship you had with him oh wow you're gonna may cause me to cry at 536
in the evening my dad passed away when I was 26 my father-in-law passed away
when I was 25 and it was crushing and I remember Billy in handling his
business affairs at a very young age when I was young and Billy was
younger not younger than I was but I remember Billy saying I know you don't
have your dad I don't I know you don't have Jennifer's dad my wife's dad
around if you ever need anything I know I won't be your dad but I could be
your substitute dad with wisdom and he provided that wisdom to me a couple
things that really stick with me he said to me hey Rich the secret to life and
everyone's success is maintaining an even keel don't get too high don't get too
low you know what happens when you get too high or too low you get cardiac
arrest do you want to die and he said it just like that and I said wow and that
helped me maintain that even keel in good times or bad times he told me that
happiness is defined turning a bad mood into a good day and he told me that in a
crowded room focus on one thing and that's who you're speaking with do not
focus on anything in the periphery those are three things that stick in my
mind in addition to all the practical jokes he tried to play on me but I was
able to figure out before he tried but he I'm sorry Chris go ahead no I'm just
gonna say he was as good as it got from about the nineteen mid-1950 said the
mid-1970s and as the title of his book says the big three in me those four
guys were very dominant on the PGA tour for those two decades but he's a guy
rich that I don't think gets enough appreciation from people for just how
great he was he won three majors he finished in the top 10 in majors 21 times
he won 51 times out on the PGA tour which is still good for seventh best all
time but his name very rarely comes up outside of my conversations with Tom
Patrick that he is somebody that deserves more recognition than he gets why
do you think he doesn't get the I guess why doesn't he get his due a couple
things he was he had a fluctuating girth for a while you know some weight issues
so he may not have looked like you know the golden bear or the swath demeanor
Arnold he also had some allergies and some people thought it was crankiness he
didn't stick around for an hour press conferences like his good friend Gary
and his good friend Jack and the reason why he didn't stick around for press
conferences and and I can't relate to this you can't relate to this but he
had 11 kids at home so when you have 11 kids at home it's tough it's tough for
the other parent right so I think those reasons that's why he didn't play the
British open often because it was a long way from home and a long way from a
really really big family did he ever talk to you about the 1966 US Open when he
came from seven back with nine to play to beat Arnold and a plough yeah the
only thing that he and I ever spoke about you know it's weird we didn't speak
about a lot of history and golf we talked more about life and you know how nice
things you know nice people do nice things for other nice people but he he
did share with groups and he did share with me over dinner and breakfast and
car rides when he beat Arnold when they were walking off 18 he put his arm around
Arnold and he said Arnold I'm sorry and the relationship was never the same
from that point on is that right yeah he really didn't talk about wins it was a
job in a lot of cases well he didn't talk about wins I think he probably
remembered every hole that he played when he finished 18th place at the
Sammy Davis junior invitational and wherever it was so he had a knack for
remembering holes but he never really at least with me talked about his wins and he
never talked about anything in golf except for at times conservative play and
putting with your wrists but it's interesting or a conversationalist about life then
he was about golf because golf is four and a half five hour rounds life is the
rest of the 24 hours right was their relationship he and Mr. Palmer were there
was their relationship different because Billy felt badly for what Mr. Palmer
just unfortunately went through or was it Mr. Palmer was just you know so
disappointed and upset that it impacted their relationship from his angle if I
told you I'd have to kill you that's the ultimate cop out Chris I don't know
whether or apologize or I just had something to go with him right but it was so
neat meaning you know Billy Billy got my company to play a significant role in
the Hassan to golf trophy in Morocco for 12 years and I'm grateful to him for his
life lessons and for having the trust in me and our team and giving me the
opportunity to travel either with him or outside of him travel the world and
experience golf from so many cultures meet so many great people and each so
many forms of strange cuisine that I do not have professional regrets by
enlarge it's interesting that you mentioned that he talked about the wrist
and putting and it's something that I've asked Mr. Player about over the years
how back in the day a lot of the putting stroke was all wrist and now there's
no wrist in the putting stroke so the evolution of that I always find very
interesting yeah yeah the games changed in some ways if you look back at the
films back in the day golf kept the complex simple and now there's so much
with swing analysis so much with data that a lot of these players lose the
field and sometimes they get paralyzed by over analyzing aspects of their
game and even aspects of their lives you know my wife and I had this
conversation the other day it's it's harder for our kids to grow up in today's
world of technology than it was for us you know back in the 70s and 80s where
we didn't have social media we can't come home we do our homework we'd watch
cartoons and we play ball on the front yard with our neighbors now everything is
so complex there's so many choices that unless you're super focused and
unless you're over disciplined it's really tough to become elite in golf or
any other pursuit you do nowadays rich before I let you go remind our listeners
what you're doing now so we we sold Billy Casper golf to Trune so I had an exit
after a wonderful 30 year run and I owe that run to two guys Bob Morris and
Peter Hill for bringing me into the fold of golf as well as everyone else that
has helped me and helped the industry when they really didn't have to I had
the Buffalo agency now called Buffalo Group the golf PR marketing firm I left
that firm my wife got very ill so I took some time off and I missed the action
so I started my one person golf marketing and golf business advisory firm I
helped CEOs navigate the landscapes of brands I broker the sale and acquisition of
golf courses and golf businesses I sit on three boards boards of directors and I
have investments in double digits golf companies so I'm as busy as I want to be
here to help others grow their businesses more better faster and help out
this easier because I've made a lot of mistakes out there I've learned from
them and I want to keep them from doing the same and I do that by leveraging my
institutional knowledge and my industry connections and it's really fascinating
having the time of my life there are a lot of good people in golf and I see no
reason why that would stop anytime soon well Rich I know you don't do a lot of
interviews anymore so I'm incredibly humbled and grateful that you would take the
time to come back and be a part of this show with me again this week you are
truly one of the great people that we get to meet in this life I can't thank
you enough for all of your wonderful support over the years I appreciate you
very very much the feelings mutual keep these great podcasts coming man you're
educating a market and entertaining a market that's so appreciative of the
game of golf and the business of golf so thank you Rich take care my friend all
the best to you and your lovely wife I hope we get this privilege with you
again maybe a little bit later on this year you bet Chris thank you take care
Rich you too folks that is the great rich cats and like I said then and I and I
don't say this this isn't you know hyperbole or this isn't just because rich
was a part of the show this week one of the great individuals you get to meet
in this life when I walked into the media center at the PJ Merchandai show rich
tends to sit in the same place every year and I look down there and I could see
his space he was smiling not at me but at the people that he was talking with but
I knew that there he is and this is my opportunity to get a few minutes with him
and he stood right up and came over and and we got the chat for a little bit
and it's the highlight of going down to the PJ Merchandai show is to get those
few minutes with Rich look he has just been a wonderful supporter of me in the
background of doing this show he is always there with a kind word always there
with support and if you need anything and that sort of thing that's that's one
of the rare things in this world these days of having somebody that is being out
there for you celebrating you and being willing to help you if you need anything
that's who rich cats is and it's not just with Chris mask arrow it by a long
shot he has done it for so many people over the decades it's unbelievable you
can see the people that are there sitting at the table wanting to talk with
rich and to and to pick his brain he's there for those people he is just that's
who rich cats is a guy that's gonna be there for you when you need it and you
know kind of cheering you on in the background when you don't I can't thank him
enough for everything that he is meant to me and the way that he is boosted me
over the years just just that kind of a great individual and look the great
things that he just talked about his insights into what's going on in and
around the game being right there in the heart of it the things that he got to
be a part of growing his career over the years at his time at ESPN at his
time at Billy Casper golf in the Buffalo agency and then those stories at the
end with Billy Casper how great is that about Billy Casper he loses both his
father and his father in law and Billy's right there to step in to be there to
be that kind of person in rich's life Billy Casper is so underrated under
appreciated for the great guy that he was and the great talent that he had you
heard Tom Patrick talk about it on the show before a great individual great
player and the guy that deserves more do 51 wins out on tour three majors and
and all those times in the top 10 in those majors he wasn't winning he was
contending and pushing the others so go out there and check out Billy Casper's
career as well I can say hopefully we get the privilege of catching up with
rich a little bit later on this year now back in next on the T with me is
Jennifer Whaley let me remind you a little bit about Jen's background as a
junior player in high school she let her all four years and golf in two years
in field hockey she was named all conference and golf all four years and a
four-year all-state and all-newing on selection as well she played her college
golf at Quinnipiac which is up in Hamden Connecticut where she was the team
captain for three seasons she led them in birdies for multiple seasons and in
fact she is number one in career birdies and rounds played in school history
she led them to the Metro Atlantic athletic conference championship during
your senior season and was named to the conference all academic team three
times after graduating she became a financial consultant a strategic advisor
per CVS and Etna she went back to school and earned her master's degree at MIT
she is now a senior product manager for golf balls at Calaway and as you guys
know her mom Susie Whaley is one of my all-time favorite guests here on the
show and I couldn't be more excited that I get to have Jen back with me this
week here on next on the tee hey Jen thanks for coming back on the show
absolutely there's nothing better than a Chris intro seriously I know I
said I'm two but I think I need to just come here when I have a little confidence
they need a little confidence boost you know that was also big so much absolutely
so but Jen it's it's been a minute since I got to spend some time with you so
catch this up what's been going on absolutely so I do have a new role the
last time I was on I was talking about a new ecom site we were building called
Topgolf Shop I was working in the ecom organization with some changes that
are happening within Calaway and Topgolf I had an opportunity to shift roles
slightly and get closer to product which I loved working on the ecom
organization but it was excited for a little bit of a change the challenge and
as you mentioned as a lifelong golfer getting to work on product every day was
exciting to me so about seven months ago now at this point I transitioned into
more of a product manager type of a role and specifically for golf ball I
like to say I work on anything that's a non-white golf ball so any decorated
design you might see that's specifically within my area of focus so all of our
limited edition drops you might see those for Valentine's Day we just had a drop
Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc so anything fun you could think of we've done
cats right I could kind of walk you through some of the ones we've done that have
been really fun but it's a very creative role while also being staying really
close to the product so in the last I would say a couple months I've gotten to
lean and more into learning more about our inline golf balls so working on those
white golf balls as well and then dabbling a little bit in packet sets so
completely different role from the last time I was here but it's been great and
and I mentioned my mom before she always laughs that now it you know the dinner
table when I went home for Christmas I'm talking about the layers of a golf ball
and how golf balls are produced and just like I can't believe this is happening
like that you know and you mentioned it I came from healthcare I took a little
bit of a left turn after college golf and ended up back right in the middle of
it and talking about how golf balls are made and she is so pumped no doubt I mean
I got to go back so some of the fun creative things you remember cats you
mentioned cats and stuff like that but what are some of the other cool fun things
that you've had that you put on golf balls it's been super fun so when I came
into the role the product manager that was in the position before me sort of
had led the calendar so I'm not going to take any credit for all the fun
amazing ideas that you know the team had come up with and but you know some of
our best sellers last year crazy enough one of the best was cats we sold out
and only a couple of days it was one of those ones that I wasn't so sure of but
you know helped lead the charge to get it across the finish line and who knew
there were a lot of golfers that love cats but we do you know wide range we also
do drops on both our super softball and our usually our chrome tour or something
in the chrome lineup so it's sort of two different price points and they have
we had a lot of holidays and then we also try to do a lot of sort of out
there fun in the moment type thing so you know think area 51 dinosaurs shark
week you know maybe like we did turn box which was a hot dog and a hamburger
and beer and chips we did one for football season so we try to make sure we
have we're hitting on those holidays and really giftable moments but also
sometimes just having some fun and you know sometimes we hit a home run sometimes
they're not as strong but it's a great way to one get people talking about
Callie golf balls potentially try it for the first time because they love the
design and maybe wouldn't have thought to try it previously and hopefully fall in
love with our ball and our brand and want to keep using Callie balls moving
forward I saw your post about the PGA merchandise show and I'm bummed that I
missed you there tell me how it went for you there at the show wow what an
experience it's one of those funny full circle moments for me I remember
growing up my parents both my parents always went to the show and it was one of
those few events that both my parents would go to you know they both worked in
golf so there were a lot of overlaps and trips for them but they always try to
make sure one of them was home with my sister and I growing up when the show
was always one they both had to go to which usually meant we had a babysitter
or an outcome visit who advised McDonald's and let us do it ever wanted and
have like the best week of our lives so it was one of those funny full circle I
remember calling my sister and saying oh they asked me to go to the show which is
like that so weird you know so then to actually see it after hearing my
parents stories all these years was incredible I mean how many people are
there the variety of products there I mean I feel like there were you know the
extension of health wellness food golf carts obviously you know manufacturers
apparel like there was just so many different avenues within golf that
sometimes you forget especially being somewhere like Callie way where we're
focused on you know what's going in your bag all day long and we forget all
the other components but it was such an incredible experience I got to meet
so many amazing people and then also just get people excited about our lineup
for this year between our new chrome tour golf ball full chrome family golf ball
and our quantum lineup we just have some really great product this year so that
was also fun to be one of the representatives for Callie way talking about
product I really believe in so let's take that a step further for the
chrome family of golf balls what is new and different about the golf ball this
year than it was last absolutely so we came out with the chrome tour golf ball
for the first time in 2024 so it is a little bit of a newer product to the
market but it's really our go at having the top premium golf balls in the market
and we actually had an all-time high in our share come August so we really are
focusing on this part of our business especially within the golf ball world
and focusing on tour level golf balls so with that from 2024 to 2026 the
main focus is that these golf balls are faster and more consistent so we have
added a brand new it's a brand new material to the industry within our golf balls
we're calling it the tour fast mantle and this new mantle that we put into our
products the engineers who are way smarter than me I just hope sell the balls
right but there's people behind the scenes that are you know engineers and are
really focused on how do we make sure we're not changing the golf ball in a
way that a consumer no longer likes it over changing the compression which
then in turn might change the feel and you no longer like your golf ball because
it feels firmer softer than what you used to play in 2024 so how do we make
sure we're not changing compression on people but make the ball faster and
what's pretty cool is we do something here called our chrome tour golf ball
challenges where we will we will put up you know chrome tour chrome tour acts our
triple diamond or chrome soft any of our golf balls we are willing to challenge
it against any competitor and in our tests that we've done you know with
different people that have come through Callaway we're seeing those faster ball
speeds which is really what we're after how do we get people like I said before
using the same ball they already love but now just giving them a little bit
extra distance right why not why not make a faster golf ball if you can so that's
that was that's been super exciting and then just continuing to build on our
consistency factor we have a couple different technologies that we use that I
can get into if interested but just to make sure that not only are you hitting it
further but you're still hitting a consistent golf ball that you can trust
every single time and I think what's what's really great is if you were already
buying that gold box chrome tour keep buying the gold box if you're buying the
black box from to X keep buying that ball so we really tried to make sure the
overall identity of the ball wasn't changed but we just made it better all right
so there's a lot to unpack there but when you say the golf ball was more
consistent what does that mean so really what we're saying is we want to make
sure that you're seeing a similar flight and you're not seeing inconsistencies
with distance let's say so one example that we can dive into is something we
like at Callie like to call our seamless tour arrow so what that is is every
golf ball in the industry is made using two cavity halves when you put the two
cavity halves together make the golf ball release the two cavity halves you
create this layer of flash that happens on the golf ball that you have to get
right up right to create that circular shape and most in the industry use a
something called seam buffing to get rid of that flash which in turn can
distort the dimples where that flash was sitting what Callie does we have a
proprietary way of making sure when we remove that flash we aren't actually
distorting the dimples to make sure that we are not causing inconsistency in
our golf balls and we've done some tests where if you hit our golf ball you know
cross seam and inseam so two different ways from the middle of the fairway into a
grain we're only looking at about within three feet or less of difference in
where your golf ball will land on the grain if you look at some of our
competitors cross seam and inseam where they're using that seam buffing process
you can see up to 10 to 15 feet of differential you know just by changing the
golf ball orientation on the grain so that's really what we're highlighting when
we say consistency of we're making sure that we are not distorting our
golf balls in any way and making sure it's a consistent golf ball between the
dimples you know the paint everything that goes into that ball making sure
that every time you hit it you can trust it that it's going to go where you
want it it's going to spin or not spin depending on what ball you're using
right it's going to feel the way you expect it firm or soft I think that's
something I found really interesting working in golf ball especially as you
get more and more advanced it's how much preference there is in choosing your
golf ball right I came into this role thinking okay let's create a chart where
we can say based on your handicap and maybe your swing speed right or you know
what other ever factor here's exactly the golf ball you should use and immediately
everyone is like that's not how it works because there's so many factors that
go into as a player do I feel like no of course there's data you can use as
well but there is some preference of do I prefer a firmer ball or softer ball
do I prefer more spin or less spin you know what's important to me in a
ball fall and I think it's funny too if you look at someone like mom she's
after distance all day long you know she was a competitive player she's still a
great player she'll hate me saying this but our swing speed might have has come
down a little bit as you know her age has gone up and all she's after is more
distance she's not as worried about about spin anymore because she just wants to
make sure she's hitting it further and getting it as close to the green as she
can so she's going to choose something like a chrome tour triple diamond when
maybe in reality an optimal ball for her might be a chrome tour X which has more
spin but at the end of the day it's about preference right we're here to give
our consumers all the information about our lineup of balls and then the consumer
can pick which ball they prefer and what they like best we're just giving you the
data to help you make that decision. Gen along those same lines a lot of us
choose the golf ball that we play by either seeing our favorite player out
there playing it maybe it's a zander chauflay or a sand burns with a chrome
tour chrome tour X golf ball or you know we have some of those in our bag plus
then we reach in and grab whatever we have some balls that we found in the woods
or some we fished out of the pond or we have one of those two of those three of
those or another one of those other ones and we put whatever we have down and
we play from there we're simply not picking the golf ball that is right for us
right for our swing because this just in most of us don't have the same swing
speed of our favorite player those of us who have a swing speed under 100
miles an hour have no business using the same golf ball as the tour players do
it just doesn't react the same for us as it does for them I'm guessing the
chrome triple diamond not meant for a player like me so talk about finding the
right golf ball for you and your swing and then sticking with that one for a
so that you understand how it's going to react and all of the different situations
that we find ourselves in so fair I think that is a really interesting factor and we're
continuing to dive into that is that tour impact of course there's going to be people that are
really just want to play with the tour players are playing and there's an aspirational level
right which we support 100 but I think for the average player I mean even me I you know
my whole life was really just playing whatever my parents handed me you know which is on me
I wasn't doing the research and I wasn't diving in but I really hadn't taken the time to think
heavily about my ball I thought heavily about clubs in my bag what wedges I want right what degree
I want my driver to be but you know I think something that's interesting is the golf ball is the
only product you use on every single shot yeah it's probably the one that people don't think
about a little bit less because it feels more like a consumable right oh you know let me just go
grab some balls from the shop I bought this before I've heard that one's good and you know depending
on the type of player they're not thinking too much about what would be optimal for them so I do
think that's important is on having people understand how important and how helpful the right golf
ball can improve your game so I would say I this is my really simple way because again I'm only seven
months in so I have a lot to learn but my really simple way for people is I like to start people with
the chrome tour I really think and that's the gold box I really think that is our hero product because
it's the best combination of everything you might be looking for you know it's it's in the middle
of the pack in terms of feel it has really good consistent flight it has you know a nice level of
spin from the it's sort of a good starting point right it's in the middle I guess you could call
it's it's what I use I like to tell people if you're looking to hit it in the middle of the green
that's what you go with right then you have people who like to work the ball a little bit more they
want that more spin you know maybe they're playing some of our competitors X balls that's where I would
shift them to a chrome tour X right so really if you're looking for more spin then the then a
typical ball you would go X if you're looking for less spin you want more distance kind of like I
say before about mom you would go with the triple diamond and what's pretty cool is my golf spy
does a massive golf ball test every year and triple diamond actually came out as the number one ball
in terms of speed from a high swing speed and a low swing speed so while we do suggest if you're
a higher swing speed to go into the triple diamond there is some data that supports it you know
with with both swing speeds and then lastly if you're you know your swing speed has really is really
you know a bit lower than average you would say and you're looking for a little bit more ball flight
maybe you're hitting a little bit lower that's where I would move to the chrome soft you know that's
actually one of our you know best product best selling products we've had chrome soft in the market
for much longer than these other chrome products I've mentioned today but that's that's my
suggestion that's what I've come to learn in my couple months here is like I said chrome
chrome tours a great starting point in the middle and then depending if you want more spin or less
spin that's where you could start changing around between the X and the triple diamond.
Jen you mentioned a moment ago cross seam and inseam one of the things that I think a lot of us
don't think enough about when we're playing a part three in particular if we've got a scoring iron
in our hand maybe it's a seven iron off the tee maybe it's something along those lines or even
if we're getting into the hybrids we're not thinking along the lines of making sure that the ball
is situated a certain way on the tee you talk about how there might be some differences in consistency
is there a way that we should be putting that golf ball on the tee to make sure that we are
getting it as close to the pin as possible. So I think that's what's great about the
Callaway golf ball lineup is you don't have to worry about that right it's we the way that we
go about getting rid of that flash our seamless tour arrow make sure that regardless of how your
ball sits you will see that consistency and really the thinking behind that is a part three okay great
if I could you know line up my ball and if I was able to find the seam which is really challenging
even for me now to try to see where seam is you know engineers and PhDs can but I think you know
on a part three great but what about when you have a six iron and do a par five right or par four
and you can't control how the ball sitting so for me I would say the great thing my callaways you don't
need to worry about that it's going to be consistent no matter how you place the ball now depending
on what type of I think another great part of the Callaway lineup is we have extensive visual
technologies that you can put on the golf ball things like triple track and true track and
you know if we have time we can kind of run through all those two which really is just for people
who are looking for help in alignment and feedback then of course maybe you're thinking a little more
about how you line it on the tee but otherwise you can trust the ball that it'll be consistent don't
have to worry about it you also talked about technology and we can get more into the technology
I mean I don't want to make people's head explode when they listen to this segment but talk about
some of the higher level technology that sets your golf ball apart yeah so I think because I've
talked about seamless tour era which was the main thing I wanted to chat about today so what I'll
talk about is some of these visual technologies which we call them which are the different things you
can add on top of the golf ball so instead of just playing a white ball which to be honest I was a white
golf ball player my whole life when I you know actually started Callaway not even in the golf ball role
I started learning more about triple track and that this triple track technology is science-based
we've worked with doctors and found that the contrast between it's and just people that don't know
triple track is blue and red lines three of them in total and their science that says that contrast
between the red and the blue especially when you put it on green grass really helps your eye
focus and then the way that we've designed the three lines isn't a way that one helps you of course
align your line the ball whether it's putt or on a par three or for your drive but also gives you
that feedback as it's rolling on the green as well so I really enjoyed playing the triple track ball
I think a misconception I hear from a lot of my friends that are great golfers is they think
they hear Callaway golf ball they do think triple track but they actually think triple track is a ball
when in reality it's something you can add on to almost any of our golf balls you can put triple
track you know you can pick the triple track variant for chrome tour chrome tour x triple diamond
from soft ERC soft right you can that's something you can play with on every single golf ball and don't
have to think I had a friend tell me oh I love I love the idea of triple track but I just too firm
I was like well that sentence doesn't totally make sense because triple track is you know what's
on top of the golf ball now let's change what golf ball you want and we'll find the ideal you know
situation for you so that's that's I would say our top visual technology and then we've been
exploring in other areas like a 360 yellow stripe that goes around the entire golf ball
which again is something that I don't necessarily I would I don't think I would have thought to
pick it up but I've heard feedback from really strong golfers who have said the the yellow itself
is so bright that one of course you know you can use it for a line in purposes and it helps you
with that feedback on the greens but also make sure nobody else in your group is going to hit your
role because you know what's yours right which I think is a great point to them and then the
other one I'll mention to your point I want to explode too many heads here is we have another one
called another technology called true track which are hexagons that are placed along the golf ball
in a way that when you line it up you can use the edges of the hexagons as your alignment aid
and then that one really gives you that feedback as it's rolling on the green if you hit a straight
putter knot so it's it's just a fun way to sort of play with you know what are we like to say
visual technology is backed in science built by our R&D team to make sure that has a benefit to the
golfer the decorated stuff which is also a huge part of my role is fun right that's the brand moment
that's marketing it's getting people into our ball trying it for the first time um because they're
excited about cats or mother's day right or whatever it might be um so we have a bunch of great
drops coming up this year that I hope will get people excited for to try the calorie ball especially
in this 2026 variant you've got a great facility out there in Carlsbad the Eli Calaway Performance
Center talk about what's available out there it's such an amazing place you know I wish I got to
hang out there more there are people who get you know hang out there all day and I should say hang
out of course they're working but it's just such a beautiful facility and we we use that
facility for a lot of different things you know a lot of our testing especially with golf fall
we'll do with the ECPC we have robot testing out there we have player testing uh you know when all
of our tour players come to get fit or you know even uh after Tory Pines right they wanted to come
and you know play around with some new product or you know get a tune up anything that they might
want to use that facility for it's there for them um but you know it serves a lot of great
purposes you know between our tech for our our our indeed team testing as well as when we have
people come through uh and we want them to actually see the golfal outside right I think that
you know in all clubs I think seeing it so when you're testing new product or getting a fitting uh
of course there's the ease when you can do it on a screen and do it inside you can crank through
it but there's something also to getting to hit the ball outside and hit some product outside
you know my dad recently I got him to uh hopefully he's okay with me saying this I got him to
do a full fitting at Calaway right because this is my goal now and now that I work at Calaway I need both
my parents playing some Calaway product especially ball right that's the starting point hello
like I'm in the golf hall let's get that fixed first please um but I made my dad when he came to visit
just do a full fitting just to you know try some product and see what he liked and he he did his
fitting inside uh and he said you know that was great and I enjoyed it but I really would love to
do it outside just to you you see more if you know the ball flight and how certain things are
reacting and um so I think that's a great part about the ECPC is you have that ability
speaking of fitting one of the things that I think there's such a misconception we talk a lot
about that on on the show is people getting properly fit for their golf club I mean I think there's
the misconception that well that's just for tour players it's this not for the everyday player
and I really believe it's actually the inverse because great players can figure out how to hit
any club for those of us that are out there playing you know with clubs off the rack I think we're
leaving a lot of shots and a lot of uh scoring opportunities on those same shelves when we pick up
those clubs and walk out of the store because those things weren't fit for us and not fit for our swing
they're not fit for how we you know deliver the club face to the golf ball talk about why it's just
as important if not more important for everyday players to go get properly fit it's so funny you say
that we were having a conversation today at work about how we ensure that every fitting is a ball
fitting and somebody in that conversation you know we're talking about you know just the different
golf balls right and how you you know what data you would need to be able to fit the golfer
during their fitting into a certain golf ball and someone said well it's not like you're going to get
you know a 25 handicap or getting fit and you know push them towards a super soft product something
along those lines and a couple of us in the room were like actually you know that's exactly who
should be getting fit and we hope that's who's getting fit of course there's going to be people who
are you know 10 handicap or less who maybe are getting fit more often or to your point know exactly
what they want they know how to hit most clubs and they're going to refresh right they know they hit
the 10 and a half you know elite driver last year okay this year I want the quantum 10 and a half
right they're just going to upgrade based on the new model but they kind of already know right
what they like and what they want whereas potentially newer golfers or intermediate golfers kind
of like I was saying about ball before if you're not using the right product it's already hard
enough right golf is hard enough let's have the product in the ball they're optimal for you so
that it's only helping you on the course so I'm a huge advocate for getting fit I hear the same
feedback all the time you know friends and family saying well you know my swing's down in a good
place right now when I want to fix my swing and then eventually I'll go get fit and I always say
you know I almost would rather get fit when my parents will kill me for saying this but I don't
almost rather get fit when you know my swing's bad because now the product's just going to help me
you know and say you know maybe getting fit into I'm hitting the best ever and now all of a sudden
I lose it and my things are you know super skinny blades and I'm terrified to miss it so yeah that's
for me I'm all about what can I what can people do to make the game easier more enjoyable more
accessible and I think we have you know there's great solutions out there kind of like I mentioned
before you know complete sets or package sets where okay if you're really new and you're sort of
terrified you can there's a one-step purchase where you can buy something that is a golf bag and all
your golf clubs that you need and you're ready to go right when you're ready to move on from that
package set that's honestly where I would say it might be worth getting fit and just see what's
right for you see what sort of set mix you want I think that's something that can be you know scary
to people is well how many hybrids do I need and what wedges do I need right um do I need a
mount or blade putter like there's so many decisions that fitting will just help you with those
decisions and making sure you have the best product Jen talk about using the same ball consistently
because I think another thing many amateurs like me do is we've got all kinds of different golf balls
in our golf bag you know we've we've got two of these three of those one of those a couple we found
in the woods one we fished out of the pond hey we've got all kinds of things in that golf bag and
then we reach into the golf bag to pull out one if we've hit a bad shot or whatever right and now all
of a sudden it's completely different than the ball we were using on the last hole or the last several
holes and it reacts differently and we act surprised talk about you know picking a golf ball
that's right for you and then sticking with that one so you have an opportunity to understand
how it's going to react on a chip how it's going to react on a flop shot how it's going to react
just in every day and all your different swings I think you nailed it it's so true and my original
thing I was going to say was as long as every random ball in your bag as Calaway works for me
I'm 100% with you I think there is definitely so many that consistency and I think your point
of shipping is probably the best example where you know to use the Calaway product as an example
if I'm playing with a chrome 2x that I mentioned before that's the golf ball that has more spin
right that's going to react close to the green potentially completely differently based on the
shot you're hitting for some of the other other products in our line you also if you change balls
from potentially a tour golf ball right to maybe something that's you know an ionomer based
golf ball it's you know it's a little bit cheaper because you know you're more interested in
price than some of the benefits that's okay too I get that but then you're really changing the
golf ball because you know a super soft as an example is going to fly higher right if you change to
a triple diamond all of a sudden you might get extra yards which is great but maybe not if you're
trying to hit a green right so there's all these factors that yes the ball is consistent 100%
but as you change potentially models or even brands you might start seeing inconsistencies and then
you're not able to tailor your game in a way that okay when I hit this chip I know 100% how it's
going to spin and I and I know the shot I'm going to hit right if you're over your ball sort of like
oh I'm not entirely sure what's going to happen so I'm just going to swing and pray right maybe
there's a better solution Jenny wrote an article for the Callaway website last year it was titled
tips for women golfers building confidence and finding your community for women who may feel
intimidated or hesitant to take up our game you lay out a step-by-step process for how to kind of
ease your way into it talk about the message you want women to take away from that article
well I love that you found that article first and foremost that's something that I am really
passionate about and you know it's something that a couple you know women and men of course but
couple of the girls that work here and I have been really focused on how do we improve the women's
aspect of our website but also more generally than that and articles like that are hopefully
a starting point for people that really just don't know where to start or feel intimidated which
is so fair I think golf is probably one of the more intimidating sports out there between
the equipment the price point all the rules and the etiquette that are just sort of people just
seem to know right since they've been playing their whole life and they just understand the terminology
and the etiquette so I completely understand I'm a big advocate of two things one is you know
bringing your friends along with you I think there's a level of comfort of if I bring a bunch of
my girlfriends out that are new to the game they feel comfortable that they will not be embarrassed
because they're with somebody that knows right so man or women I highly suggest bringing some of
your beginner friends out especially women who maybe feel a little bit more that discomfort
and unsure if you know where do I stand on the t-box what should I wear where do I check in how
do I pay for range balls right all these questions that come natural to us golfers I think it's just
always helpful if you have somebody like that around with you if you don't have anybody that you
know that golf but you still want to get into it one thing I love to suggest is just go to your
local driving range and honestly just watch maybe that sounds creepy I don't mean it in a creepy way
I mean it more to realize that a lot of people stink at golf and they still love it it's
totally okay to stink and you don't have to be an expert right think a lot of my my girlfriend
specifically get worried about getting on course for the first time right because they're oh well
I'm not there yet I still know exactly what I'm doing and then once you start going to the
range a little bit more you realize oh there are a couple people here who don't really know what
they're doing and they don't they're okay with it they're just you know trying hitting in figuring
it out and when you get on course it's similar right you start getting paired with random people
and you realize they're more focused on their own game than yours so they really don't care
as long as you aren't holding up speed of play that's my number one piece of advice is once you're
on course it you know I always let's say double double the par right it's sort of put or put some
sort of you know top range for yourself in place and as soon as you get to that that number just pick
up your ball and be ready to go to the next hole and that way nobody's going to be bothered that
you're out there that you're trying you're having fun so I completely understand the golf is
intimidating but I think for women you know finding a community like I mentioned before bringing
others with you joining a league or lessons you know find your local pga pro and take a couple
lessons to really get the basics down and then just go out on course and have fun and don't hold
people up. Jen it is so refreshing to see that we are getting more and more women into our game 7.9
million women are playing on courses nowadays accounting for roughly 28% of all golfers that's
up 46% since 2019 why do you think so many more women have started to play over the last half
dozen years or so. That's a great question I think there's so many things that are going into it
right I think COVID was a big driving force for people wanting to still get outside in a safe way
right and we continue to see that surge in golf that's probably more holistically than just women
but I do think that opened up an opportunity for women to say hey let me try this because it's
one of the only things I don't really do right during COVID I also would say top of mind right now
I do think there's something about social media we're seeing more and more women's golfers
whether it's influencers lpga players right have a little bit more you know the more recognizable
you're seeing their content more they're you know it's exciting to watch you know now good good
has a whole girls team right there there's all these moments where all of a sudden women are
seeing more and more people out there golfing and potentially kicking some of that intimidation
factor out of it right and I think it's fun as people are just realizing more and more that
golf is such an incredible sport because even if you're not the best at it one that's what handy
capture for us you can still compete and have fun with your friends but it also could just be
something that okay every Saturday I like to get my steps in and what a great way you know as a
healthy alternative to go get my steps in and sometimes my friends are loved ones and enjoy a hobby
and get better at a sport so I'm definitely seeing it I you know I'm seeing it even at work I
would say a little bit of a different take but you know the number of women that we have working
here at Callaway is encouraging to me and continues to increase and you know not surprisingly my
mom has really instilled the importance of not only you know myself in the game of golf and
representing you know that for other girls but bringing other girls along with us and making
sure it's an inclusive place for all is definitely where my you know I get most excited and you know
love working at Callaway and finding ways to do that and I would say again that's why I really
enjoy what I'm doing because I you know when you focus specifically on the drops right I now have
this opportunity where okay are there a couple drop you know limited edition drops I could do that
maybe lean a little bit feminine and might excite somebody right I've had so many girls at work we
just recently came out with a drop called golf hurts which have little fun golf puns on hearts
all over the golf ball it's a really fun potential present for Valentine's Day or any gift really
and I've had so many girls come up to me and say you know I don't really golf but those golf
balls are so cute I would you know I would love to buy some right I'd love to just have them and
I think there's a little bit of that too of you know what are things we can do that make it fun and
exciting to bring women into the game you know package sets again you know not to read it myself but
that's another great way of hey we're producing a really easy way to okay I don't need to worry
about what I need because it's a one-click purchase I can buy the revot complete set and it's
going to give me you know X number of golf clubs golf clubs but from driver all the way down to
putter it's going to give me my bag I just got to get some balls in a glove and I'm ready for the
first tee right instead of trying to worry about all the different pieces that you have to you know
come together to go out and play so I don't even remember where we started I'm sorry I could
talk about this forever but I'm so passionate about this and excited and you know that hopefully
we continue to grow indeed then just a couple more before I let you go and I saw that the Quinnipiac
women's golf team won the Metro Atlantic athletic conference championship again last year how great
was it to see your alma mater carrying on that winning tradition I love it I love that you brought it
up it's it's so special for me you know Quinnipiac women's golf has such a special place in my heart
you know my coach John O'Connor is still the coach today and he's done such an incredible
job growing that program I probably told the story last time I was on but what's really interesting
about the golf team is it was a late ad you know in probably 2000 and I'm gonna date myself here
let's see maybe 2010 let's call it just I don't know if that's actually right coach if you're
listening but you know 2010 it was a late ad to the you know athletics program I couldn't be at
and so coach O'Connor had to find girls that were already at the school to compete that spring
in the conference championship and he always tells this story that he ended up with a great
group of girls you know a couple that played golf in high school and a couple actually from the
ice hockey team that were done with their season and we're like yeah I'll go play golf you know
and he had a couple girls on the team who were shooting you know I don't know 125 at a
conference championship you know I remember him telling me he didn't even know how many golf balls
to bring because he was just like who knows what's gonna happen with these girls and you know
it was and see where it's come now you know even from that time to my senior year and us winning
you know the Matt conference championship the first conference championship in golf program history
was such an incredible moment to now you know fast forward and now wow the girls and I always
joke that we could never make the team now not only are they incredibly smart they're shooting you
know a couple over par and winning you know winning the tournament and we were you know we broke 80
we were happy right so it's just it's so fun to get to follow a program like that that's grown
so much and keeps getting better and better and just to know that there's so much opportunity
out there you know we I think our first we have our first player I didn't play with her but I got
to coach her for one year when I coached at Quinnipiac who's trying to become a professional right
I never would have guessed when I went to Quinnipiac that we'd have girls coming through our program
that are trying to become a pro so it's just so cool I love staying involved I love coach of
Connor and I'm so and I'm always so proud to be an alumni. Jen before I let you go remind our
listeners how can they stay up to date with the great things that you're that you're out there
doing whether they're doing it online or it's on social media I love it please check out calivagolf.com
or or your or any of your you know your local green grass store your you know your local golf
specialty store to see any of our drops you also can follow calivagolf on Instagram but that's
really what I'm you know excited about for this year besides our chrome tour lineup which you
can buy today but we almost have a lot of really fun limited edition drops coming up that you're
going to want to get your hands on so definitely keep an eye out on calivagolfs Instagram because
there's some really fun stuff coming I hope you guys are excited by. Jen has been great having you
back as part of this show I hope we get this privilege with you again soon because you're so much fun
using every time you join me. Hopefully next time I'm back I know even more about golf ball and we
can really explode some heads but I still appreciate giving me the time and the chance to talk about
and everything I'm doing at Cal way and you know I'm really enjoying it and loving it and excited
to share what I'm learning so this has been awesome thank you so much. Absolutely take care Jen
all the best of you your mom and the rest of the family look forward to catching up with you
again soon. You too thanks so much Chris. See you Jen. That is a great Jen Waley folks and first of
all excitement talk about someone that is just such a ball of energy and is excited about what
she does. That's one of the great things about Jen and I love people that come on the show
that share their enthusiasm for what they're doing. Why wouldn't you want to work around Jen Waley?
I mean that that excitement and that enthusiasm is just oozing out of her so she's a blast to
have as part of the show first of all and then you know the great stuff that she did get to share with
us talking about trying to find the right golf ball talking about some of their creative drops
and how they make it fun and how they make the golf ball fun talking about the right thing to do is
to go get fit. We talk about getting fit for your golf clubs on this show a lot right because we're
not good enough not to go get fit but the thing that we've started to talk more recently about is
finding the right golf ball for you for your swing speed find the right compression find the ones
that are fun right I mean look one of the things we do is we stare at that golf ball a lot out on
the golf course right so if you've got the one that's the right compression if you can find one
that is creatively appealing to the eye right to make sure you smile that reduces the stress out
there that's all the better and look Jen is just fantastic she is this is the second time she's
been a part of the show last time she was great this time even better she brings a smile to your face
she brings the positive and the enthusiasm that is a wavy treat Suzy's great at that and of course
Jen is great at that as well hopefully we get the privilege of catching up with Jen maybe a
little bit later on this season and we'll see what Callaway continues to do and what they introduce
into the market I'm sure it's going to be great in the golf ball section because they've got a
wonderful mind and talent like Jen working on it all right my friends it is time for me to put a
bow on this episode of next on the tee I want to send out my sincere thanks again to rich cats
and Jen Waley for joining me now coming up over the next several episodes here's who I've got
in store for you of course a resident director of instruction Tom Patrick will be here plus three
more of the top instructors in our game Taylor Crosby from down at the kingdom at Reynolds Lake
O'Coney PJ master professional John Hughes and a guy who belongs on the Mount Rushmore of
instructors Jim McLean will all be joining me I also have a crossover star from football former LSU
legend and Kansas City Chiefs wide receiver Eddie Kenneson who is just one of the great people
you get to meet in this life he has been a wonderful friend for many many years over in our show
Thursday night tailgate in fact he's in our guest hall of fame so Eddie will be joining us as well
I hope you'll come back and press play on those episodes I want to thank our friends again over
a trip live for being such wonderful partners and for hosting this show on their site for the
latest news from Western Pennsylvania and beyond including your favorite sports go to trip live.com
you can find this show by clicking on the sports section tab it's right there on the homepage of
the sports section available for you there the most recent episode is or you can go to podcast
dot trip live.com and many of the most recent episodes from this season are there for you too
you can also find this show pretty much anywhere you get your podcast content we're on good
pods one apple podcast spotify amazon music off news net dot com but as always folks when I send
out my gratitude and my thanks the biggest one goes to each and every one of you for being the
greatest supporters in the history of podcast barring none I'm so grateful that you're here and
that you've made next on the tee apart of your weekly golf content until next time hit him straight
my friends thanks for joining Chris again this week on next on the tee we hope you enjoyed the
conversations as much as we did please share the show with your golf buddies and be sure to follow
it on trip live or your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode thanks for pressing play
and be in part of the journey we'll see you next week right here where the best minds in golf
share their stories

Next on the Tee: Where Golf Legends Live & Your Game Gets Better

Next on the Tee: Where Golf Legends Live & Your Game Gets Better

