S2:4: Inside Out, Civil Wars, and Listening—Oh My!

Welcome to season two of Rabbit Holes with Aaron, where we haven't made any drastic changes,

but we believe we get better with time.

So enjoy the wide constellation of guests that I have on this show and enjoy our conversations.

Hopefully, you get some nuggets and you can learn and grow and become a better person.

Thanks for listening.

Welcome to Rabbit Holes with Aaron.

I'm Aaron and today with me as my guest, I have Colin, my good friend.

We went to college together.

We hang out and meet, have lunch together occasionally, and I've asked him to be a guest

on my podcast.

Thank you for showing up today, Colin.

Thank you for having me, excited to see where this goes.

Yeah, we're going to go down some rabbit holes.

So I've got a question to start us off getting to know you a little bit better.

What are some new and exciting things happening in your life or in this season for you?

Yeah.

So, I'm a therapist.

I've been working on building my business up, PLOC, so that's been going pretty good.

Lots of fun to figure that out.

Sometimes it feels like I'm in the middle of my life, but I'm really having to adult from

missing, like, I don't know, like 20 years, things I've never learned or figured out.

So having to figure out a lot of these things on my own and kind of adult has been fun.

I also got a lot of family, aging parents, niece and nephew, kind of getting into high

school or going off to college, so that's always a fun transition, I would say, exciting.

But yeah.

Okay.

So it was interesting to me that you mentioned your nephew and niece going to college as

a fun transition.

Now are we saying fun fun or are we saying like almost close to death fun?

I would say fun.

I mean, you and I both went back to school later on in life and I think that's a way different

experience than, you know, my first go at it.

It didn't work well.

So I feel like they're both ready or have that ability to, I don't get a good experience

out of it.

What they're looking for.

So, you know, I'm excited.

I am excited to see what happens with that.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you for sharing that transition, though.

We could talk about transitions.

We could talk about it for the rest of our lives, probably.

I've been thinking about transition for a while and how they are.

Sometimes some of the most difficult things we can face.

Yeah.

I would agree with that.

What do you think about transitions?

You're going through.

It sounds like you're going through a lot of them.

You, you mentioned your family, you mentioned, you know, especially your niece and nephew,

we talked about a little bit more, but like your mom and dad, you mentioned some transitions

there.

You didn't explicitly mention.

I'm just curious.

If you want to talk about, you can, if you don't, we'll find out.

Sure.

Okay.

Like, I don't remember a time when people really explained, like, hey, this is what it's

going to be like when your parents start aging and you're having them take care of them

or help those to figure out or, hey, this is how your sibling dynamics really change and

kind of some get closer, some get kind of further away.

And then kind of, I don't say at some point, my emotional maturity outgrew my folks and

that was something that I didn't expect to have, but having to respond differently, not

like, you know, throwing a tantrum or being a kid because that doesn't work anymore.

But having to be the adult in the relationship is always weird.

New.

Yeah.

I've had a few experiences like that with my parents as well.

So yeah, it's different.

It's different.

I agree with you.

I'm saying it's different growing up and I remember my father passed, but a few years

ago, I had a chance to hang out with him for a couple of weeks up in Kansas.

I was hanging out with him and he was upset and frustrated and fearful about some things.

He was living with my middle brother because I have two siblings, two brothers as well.

And he was living with him and he came to me with this problem and I was like, of course,

by that time I'd been in the Marine Corps 20 years.

I graduated from college for my master's degree in a counseling related field.

And so he comes up to me and I'm like, well, dad, I don't see a reason why you're not

grateful.

You're living.

He opened up his home to you.

You live for free.

You're going to see your grandkids and sometimes you're great grandkids like every day.

I'm like, and it kind of flipped his mind around.

Thank goodness.

I mean, you can have all different kinds of reactions.

But for this time, but it was like you said where I was, I was a more well trained, seen

a lot of stuff in my life and overcame it.

And now it was like I was helping him, like he was my teenage son, so it was kind of

opposite.

Is your similar to that?

Yeah.

I would say very much so.

And also, I guess embracing or enjoying like the fun silly moments, like if you had, you

know, when your kids are small and you get to play and just kind of be silly and goofy

and really enjoying those moments with my folks, sometimes it feels like, all right,

making up for lost time, but, you know, they're not as serious as they were younger.

So there's that aspect that I think I enjoy a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I enjoy it.

Well, in the story I share with you, I enjoy it too that I talk to my dad and I, you

know, I tried to get him to think about the positive stuff.

And when he did, he went back and he, my brother called me because I was, I left shortly

after that to come back to Texas.

And my brother called me, he's like, what did you say to dad?

He's been so much better since you talked to him.

And you know, that does, does your heart good when you can, you know, he's the one that

gave me advice growing up.

He's the one that asked about my future and helped guide me.

And it turns around that I helped him work through a situation.

So that was on the positive side and we had those play moments too and those are, those

are in treasure, especially now these past.

Yeah.

So I have a question for you.

How has it been, I guess, being on this side of maybe a profession or counseling or just

going through all of our stuff, but having to like coach a family member or

kind of help, you know, someone through a difficult transition or talk, because I'll

get requests from that from like my family, like my brother will say, hey, can you talk

to your nephew?

He's something's up.

But yeah, how does that look like for you?

But do you find yourself in a lot of moments where you're having to, I guess, be the one

that has those conversations or have those talks more often because you, I guess, Ken?

Yeah.

So, you know, that's a, that's a really good question.

My mind goes about 10 different directions at once, but you know, there's a lot of factors.

I think that are different, especially it's not like between your case of mine, but between

my case and everybody else is insane for you.

But it's like in this situation, like we're going to stay close to what I already shared

about my dad.

It was interesting because, and maybe you notice it, maybe you don't.

Maybe you haven't experienced it in your relationship, but with me, it was kind of like as I grew

up and I matured and I learned about counseling and I learned about leadership in the Marine

Corps.

And, you know, and I had a hundred people working for me and I learned how to delegate

and I learned how to listen and communicate, how to communicate criticism, but coupled

with positivity, you know, to get my Marines to grow or whatever.

And so coming back, I was in a different place.

And I think, to some extent, like when a person gets healthier, they start to repel unhealthy

people or attract healthy people, right?

And that's a dating, that also applies to dating at, you know, at middle age, that also

applies to so many relationships, my relationship with my kids has changed too.

So I have two kids, a boy and a girl and they're in their 20s and that's changed drastically.

And even though, I don't know, even though like I have the ability and the knowledge and

the practical, right?

We did practical and we learned how to counsel real people, like there were college students

that going through stuff, even though I have all this practice and all this experience,

still it doesn't mean they're open to it, right?

And what the most well-meaning, dropping a pebble in their pond, as gentle as possible,

it's like a nuclear weapon in their life, you know, or it could be potentially.

And so, yeah, I guess I would say I treat them, when I'm glad I learned a lot about

the counseling program, because I like to say I treat them like with unconditional positive

regard and listen and don't weigh in and don't necessarily help.

But I mean, maybe help with day-to-day life, but not help with, well, I don't even know

if it's help.

I guess I'm going to take that for a second, just for a minute to decide and say, my version

of help that I'm speaking of was probably trying to shortcut them around her.

And the path that got me to where I am sometimes was intense hurt in every step.

You know, burning tears, you know, in every season.

And you know, and I don't necessarily want to rob them of that, but the same time doesn't

mean I have to, you know, stand around and watch them, you know, beat their head on the

wall.

And I kind of went all over the place with that, is there anything in that that was helpful

for you?

Yeah.

I really resonated with really not wanting them to hurt or kind of have same experiences,

because I know I've gone through a lot of rough experiences and then like guiding, you

know, the younger generation through, obviously I don't want them to hurt, but I, you know,

you can't avoid that, you can't protect them from it.

So I guess a part of me wants to like lean in and help them embrace for what that might

look like, to anticipate it, make it, I guess, normal.

Yeah.

What?

Well, and I think, well, I, I'm reminded too about, it's crazy to say this, but like

reminds me of death, you know, and how you approach death with the people that are surviving

obviously and with yourself is like, what do they need the most for me?

Do they need?

I'm going to say some really wrong thing.

So please give me a little bit of a second of patience.

I'm talking my listeners too.

It's like, what do they need?

Do they need me to come up and say, I can't believe you're old, not over this yet.

I didn't even think you cared about them.

All you did was complain.

I mean, those are really bad examples of what to say to somebody who's experienced

loss.

What's the best thing to say?

Absolutely nothing.

Let your actions speak.

Bring them food.

Sit with them.

Don't hand them the Kleenex box.

Cry with them.

Suffer with them.

And be there.

And you know, your presence is the loudest message you can send in a situation like

that.

And of course, like I said, I lost my father shortly after I lost a grandmother I was

close to.

That's just the beginning of losses probably in my life.

But yeah, those have taught me that like it's important to just be there.

And so the alternative thing to because I, you know, I see them hurting and, you know,

it's even closer to that like me and my wife, we live in an RV together.

We're close range 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

And I'm like looking at her and I'm like, well, you're wasting time by doing that.

You should just do this right here, right?

Like, oh, I can help you with that.

You know, and I don't even mean to be trying to say in 30 seconds or less.

But like if you just do this, you avoid all that.

But the problem is number one, I'm interfering in there whoever it is, a civil war.

Like whatever they're got going on inside of them, I'm now taking a side.

That's one aspect.

I guess I can talk about this a long time.

I'm going to check back in with you and see like how that resonates with you.

Yeah, loss.

I'm sure we can go in.

That's definitely a rabbit hole that we could spend a year in.

But something that kind of spurred my mind is, I'm sure a lot of you and your listeners

are similar in the sense of, we forget about the good things and we hang on to like the

20 negative aspects of things.

And even with, you know, the guys I work with, yeah, we do, we look at the worst moments.

But when we have to look at the best moments, it's a lot harder to, you know, conceptualize

or hold on to what made them good moments.

It's not so easy to be grateful.

It's not so easy to see the things that are grateful.

If it were, this world would be a different place.

You know, if everybody saw the things to be grateful for, as soon as they woke up in

the morning and all day long, I mean, I mean, we have a really good counseling term for

that mindfulness, like think of, think of five things in your room, draw yourself into

this moment.

All this is a kind of a part of that, like, I'm grateful for this chair.

I'm grateful that I breathe.

I'm grateful for oxygen.

I'm grateful that my skin's not melting out, you know, whatever.

We could all populate a list of 500 things, but guess what rushes to the front?

The hard thing I got to do tomorrow.

My truck broke down.

I got to fix it, perhaps, or, you know, feel in a scenario for many buddies life.

My home's falling apart and I can't afford to paint it, you know, whatever.

The roof's falling off or, you know, I've lost the leg and now I've got to deal with it.

There's just filling anything that's going to come to the forefront.

That's automatically because of the way we're wired.

Because of the way our bodies are wired, you know, we are wired towards survival.

And so the things that are going to pop up in our mind forefront, at least automatically

without a lot of work, are going to be the negative things we see first.

And then, you know, I guess it is, it seems to be a mark of maturity that the grateful people that they've come to a place where they're like.

And that's what I want to segue back to for just a second.

We're just going to jump between rabbit holes like I'm getting dizzy already, but, but like the difference like hardship when you see and you endure the hardship and you look back years later, you see that it was a blessing.

Like, wow, I grew so much from that, you know, I grew so much from that.

I'm grateful for that hardship.

And then you start to see someone else coming up to the hardship and you're like, whoa, stop, stop, you're about to hurt yourself.

And then you're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm, I'm grateful for the hardship.

Why would I rob them of that?

Now, I'm not trying to cause it.

That's completely other thing, but like we think about death and that's why I talk about it.

You can be there for them in the hardship, you know.

Yeah, you know, something that somebody told me a while back is, you know, if you go to a funeral, you know, not to say, I'm sorry for your loss because they get that like all the time.

But instead to just empathize like, man, I bet this, effing sucks, you know, and kind of be that.

I guess different than just a handshake, a nod and then just blur back into the background, but staying enraged with them.

Yeah, that's a good, that's a good, I mean, I was just thinking, what would you do like you're just standing there?

There's a hundred people standing there.

And it's like, you're just standing there.

Well, what do you do?

What I, I would, I don't know, I'm just brainstorming here.

Yeah, I would say there's going to be plenty of things to serve them in their home, in their life.

For instance, the husband dies.

They're a woman can't lift everything's perhaps most of the time.

They might need help with some stuff around the house or changing a light bulb sometimes or whatever, mowing the lawn.

You know, there's so many little things that we don't even think about.

We're just like, okay, well, I'm going back to my life.

Sorry for your loss, and we may dreadfully sorry.

Anyway, what do you think?

Fair enough.

No, I'm surprised.

I'm curious to know if your listeners would get like a trip on UF.

Oh yeah, women will need help lifting heavy things and mowing the lawn.

I'm thinking kind of elderly, but you know, I can say that.

Yeah, okay.

Well, you know, it comes into my mind because there's a lady that is a little bit older and she was like,

we were talking because she wanted to get some honey from me.

I've got to be keeping.

And so we were talking and she was like, yeah, my, my kids don't,

don't check in with me anymore and don't check on me or whatever.

I'm like, well,

does there anything around the house you need done?

And she was like, yeah, we need to help getting the garden ready.

And I need help somebody to mow the lawn.

And I'm like, you got a lawnmower.

You know, so I guess I'm like recently familiar with a situation where a lady

needed some help because she was older.

And I saw a need and I could step into that.

So I was thinking in my mind that like her husband died in our scenario.

We're talking about there's just like an elderly lady that, you know,

so maybe I can't do all the things her husband used to do.

What did that do for you to be able to help her out?

Well, I haven't helped her yet, but I've set up to do it when it's time to like work on her,

I work on her garden.

Yeah, what did it do for me?

Well, it just feels

to step into that place and it feels, well, there's.

It feels like the ultimate good.

It feels like unconditional good, you know, because, and I was really clear,

I was like, you are not paying me any money.

Pay it forward to someone else.

I'm helping you, just like you were my parent, you know, and so if you were,

I'm pretending you're my parent and I'm helping you out in things that might

help you around the house a little bit and right now it's only one time.

It's not like I'm, you know, I set up a schedule or anything, but yeah,

to help her with some big things that she needs and I'm not even going to be in the

picture very long, right?

I'm, I'm seasonal, I'm nomadic.

I'm in and out, but while I'm here, I can help somebody out.

So you asked me what it is it do for me to help this lady out and I guess it just aligns

with when I, I guess I need to give some more details about it because it's not just

a stranger and I'm not trying to over commit and I'm not trying to promise things

that I can't deliver, but I just kind of felt like there was a vacuum in her life that

I could help out and I'm trying to live by this idea that I'm sure you've heard of and

my listeners might have heard of the golden rule, like help other people out in the way

that you'd like to be helped.

And you know, I think forward in my life to when I'm 100 and something and I can no longer

lift this up and I need to ask somebody for help and I guess I help in hopes that the

golden rule works the way it's supposed to work and then when I need that help and you

know, we don't have to live very long for people to help us out sometimes, you know, and

so I just want to take that spot and I think some of the things I said before were that

like I'm nomadic so I'm here for a season like we're here till June and then we're off

to visit, you know, the rest of the world we're going to Thailand and so like I'm only

here for a season so all I really committed to was at one time get ready to spring kind

of thing but I'll check on her when we come back or whatever I'm, you know, I like I'm

young, I'm in shape and I've always done that for my family too like when I visited my

grandma where she's still alive I was like grandma is there any heavy stuff you need that

I can do because grandpa had been dead for 10 years and so she was like yeah I need that

move to the attic and can you take this down and put it over there and I'm like sure and

you know helped her with stuff around the house so I guess it's something I learned in my

family but it's also something I learned in in my faith and something I believe in no the

golden rule okay much about that these days but yeah that's my answer what do you think well

I mean my mind goes in several different spots there one okay it doesn't sound like it's

codependent but a little bit sounds like it's codependent okay but I do fully get you know if

you have the means and you have like the ability and time to be able to help others especially

if they ask for it because it's not help unless you ask for it right well and I yeah I would

qualify that and I want to interrupt you because I like codependency I mean not being codependent I've

come out of being codependent but I like that I understand it and you know I I try to do certain

things like for instance I could help with some things you know with your garden and with this if

you want would you like for my help and there you know I could see it being codependent but I mean

I'm open to this conversation I could see it being codependent for sure if like the next day I'm

out there with a home like working in or lawn and she's like oh that's so nice or whatever it's

like helping without asking permission that pilots autonomy in my opinion so it was just like I've

got free time you have a need you would you mind if I help with that because of my values because

of my thoughts and she's like thinks about it and she's like that'd be great I'm like okay I'll

text you back when we get closer to a springtime and we'll set it up you know and so like I said

a one-time thing perhaps and yeah but she's also ordered honey for me in the past as we've also

had a lot of really good conversations when I went to the same church as she went to and I feel

like she's a really good person that gives a lot to the community so all those kind of go into it

I'm just looking for random people like hey ma'am can I come over to your house and help you or

anything it's just like somebody I knew yeah and I heard for her I'll define like codependency

codependency is getting your needs like met through other people sometimes you don't know what those

expectations are they're unsaid they're unknown but yeah what it sounds like in your situation

you're getting connection community it aligns with your authentic self and just who you are so

you're getting a lot of your needs met for your own self yeah well and and even on top of that like

it's fostering future relationships with people and it's fostering um well and it's fostering my

business relationship because she's bought honey for me and you know and she'll buy honey again

actually she's waiting on honey right now to buy for me and so it's like it's the other side of

the business relationship it's like I know you as a person and I am who I am in my business

and in my personal life and you know I guess trying to be authentic so yeah but yeah I yeah I've

come out of really deep codependency I can talk about codependency for personal stories like for

the rest of the hour but yeah but thank you no I appreciate you evaluating that thinking about it

yeah and I'm tying it back to when I said like knowing those good moments and like the happy

stuff uh so I was really thinking about you know for my birthday in January I took my niece and

nephew and my nephew's girlfriend we went to a play uh at the AT&T Performance Center and it was

Dungeons & Dragons like a 20-sided tavern it's very interactive it's very me but I had the

ability to kind of share that with them but thinking back to what made that good because you know

the easiest thing to say is oh we had a great time I really enjoyed it you know it was really fun

but in reality I got a lot of good connection I got you know I felt understood uh being able to

share a part of me with them uh and then being able to engage uh you know I felt very connected

in that moment so yeah I haven't really break it down because I will I will tell you all of the

negative feelings I can give you a laundry list of those and how often I feel that but I quickly

forget about the good stuff yeah okay yeah I mean we kind of lightly touched on or maybe like if

we're gonna use the rabbit hole analogy we just kind of peaked into a rabbit hole real quick that I

I've been living in and that is like thinking about my future self thinking about my future self

and what's going to make his life not easier because easier like I said right hardship

is actually turns into blessings easy turns into boring and meaningless

for me but not making my future self's life easier but setting him up so that all he gets has to do

is follow his passions and pursue the things that he discovers that he loves and so

you know some people describe it as I'm like a butler for my future self I get my future self's

close out at night I get his dishes ready for the next day I get everything set up so all he

has to do is get up he walks through it's almost like having a personal servant but in advance and it's

you and I'm thinking about this phenomenon I wonder where it goes I didn't come up with it I

just heard about it but it's possessing a part of my brain but I thought about where it goes and

maybe you eventually catch up to where I become my future self and all I have to worry and you

know it's starting to be that way right I mean just I don't have to tell you much about me to

you know people on my podcast know like I'm a beekeeper like I am a podcaster well that's obvious

I didn't even know I said that and I do pottery workshops and I create pottery cups and you know

I don't know now I'm starting to write a novel I think that's going to be the one that kills me

but I've got all these stuff going on but that's because like I have started to begin to serve my

future self with my life and it doesn't mean I have no fun it just means I do a lot of little

silly boring things investing in myself you know like the boring things what doing the dishes the

boring thing what would I rather do you know do you think turn around to the other extreme you know

where a person maybe is using too many uncontrolled substances and you know or let's just use

apple they're drinking a little bit more than they can handle or a lot more than they can handle

and they wake up the next day and none of their clothes are clean the other dishes are done

all their relationships are in shambles and they've got to hang over and they've got to go to work

it's like you give your future self the hardest puzzle this all of all time and you got to be

working five minutes go and it's like oh you know and everything they do is going to be painful

from the time they get up in the morning to the time they go to bed at night and all their

relationships are toxic so I took it to a crazy extreme but I've left it that extreme so I know

well I remember the address I still get mail there just kidding but yeah so there you go so

in your future self what's going to be different when you get there

I think well I don't know that's a really good question let's play this game I like this game um

I think well in my idealized perspective like the boring stuff has to be done the maintenance stuff

vehicle maintenance rb maintenance dishes you know all the laundry all that stuff kind of has to

be done luckily I got a good team teamwork with my wife who does some of that stuff but what does

it look like what does it feel like right now where it's like what am I doing with my day today

well I don't got any appointments for pottery I don't got beekeeping it's not going to spring time

um I don't feel like doing the research to work on my novel and listen to that what do I want to do

I'm like let me make coffee cups let me you know interact with people and and try and build

relationships let me check it on people um so it's like I have this abundance of time and energy

is what it looks like and abundance of time and energy so that's why I could offer the lady that

like yeah I know I'll have the time and energy and clean clothes to come over and help you with

your house you know um and and the working vehicle and there's gas in it and and and you know

all the things that are required for me to do that I notice that they'll be in place because

those are my daily disciplines and so I I guess it's doing my daily disciplines for tomorrow's

Aaron and then figuring out what my passions and my dreams and the things I like and don't like

which is why I've been traveling so much because I have all this extra time so do you feel like

what do you think about that answer I guess it confuses me so I'm sitting here thinking like

haven't you already achieved your future self like in the present you're always gonna have car

issues you're gonna have to do stuff so aren't you already living out your passions right now like

today I like I like for your head that I like for your goal with this like you're right you're

absolutely right I guess I'm transitioning when I think about it to go back to something we

talked about a minute ago literally transition like I'm transitioning to the place where I accept

that today is the best day of my life and yes there's gonna be

the small tedious steps in every day but yeah that it's that it's good and that I'm already there

perhaps I think that's where I'm transitioning to so I'm kind of still holding on to a little

bit of their things I could do better my day to make it better for my future self but you're right

I can't help see that it's like I'm living in the present tense in this moment with my future self

in a lot of ways if not I'm not gonna say all the ways because then I would have to have been

done with its transition right yeah I don't know if we enter time loophole or what happens wrong

in the world but if that happens so to go back to your like alcohol story and yeah I'm a long

I'm a person in long-term recovery but I do remember when I was like in my early 20s

joking with a friend drinking a ton and we're just jumping off cars we're doing something dumb

and I said to my friend that this is future Collins problem when I hurt my ankle I'm like I

want to deal with it and lo and behold him in my 40s I'm like what what's up with my ankle why

does it hurt all the time yeah and it throws me off now future call it is now and I'm having a

deal with things that I never really planned on when I was younger but take today you know

I went to a doctor's appointment had a regular check up things were good you know that's living in

the present you know I'm not trying to fix major things but I'm still taking that general

care of myself yeah and all those boring things I would say have become I don't know it I guess

it would feel I feel more engaged with myself and we're connected with myself being able to do all

of that yeah for me similar to you know setting your clothes out and doing all that but I think

that's the level of I guess acceptance compassion self love to do all that yeah yeah I see it

and you know I want to go back and clarify something there's a part of me and this is the

transition there's a part of me that's resistant to change and that's the part of me they call

and you know I'm gonna be like oh do you hear voices you know there's multiple personalities they're

all in unity but mostly but that's one voice it's like you mean the boring things but the other

voice the other side of me is like the boring things make you feel amazing like if I said a day

and make a list of all the boring things I feel great on top of the world for like three to four

days easy like when I play video games on those days I'm like this is so much fun I'm loving it

but if you choose to four goes a list and you go straight to video games I can tell you at least

how I feel it's like I got nothing done today this video game is boring I hate it what's next do I

need to order a new one what's on TV you know what do I have to drink you know what do I you know

so that's the way that they're not doing boring things they kind of go for me or has gone in the past

and so I'm finding this like I feel pretty stinking amazing not only that guess what it gets stuff

done like I'm like well what new business do I need to start I'm going to turn it over to you

maybe in the terms my wording from boring things to discipline things not discipline like punishing

myself but like the discipline it takes to be healthy and successful the little building blocks

I also call baby steps but discipline is the grown up word that's respectable that seems to be the

one is taking over yeah so there's a great book from Richard Schwartz it's called No Bad Parts

and what I like about it is he really looks at the difference between having like a motto mind

like us thinking that we're the same person and every scenario that we go through

uh but he looks at it as like morph a group so like the movie inside out with all the

little characters that you know are at the control board we have like all these different folks

that are at the control board so that like inner child or that teenage self that's those are

boring things I don't want to do that you know right it's it's looking at hey listen up teenage self

I know this is really boring you know we got this some of those parts don't serve us you know

serve a purpose as much to have yet the control board but that just means we need to find another

job for them to do uh so yeah that teenage self maybe we can hang out with them when we you know

mothalon they might enjoy that maybe when we're getting honey that part probably would like to

be in the control board a little more yeah yeah well how does that fit for you do you use like inside

out or how do you see it yeah I would say very much like inside out they could be like feelings or

they could be like different parts arrest you or part like a manager part protector things that

kind of suit me so fun coming across something that's like threatening or scary than my

protector parts gonna come in and steamroll everything but part of being I guess that adult

similar chart the beginning of our conversation having those difficult talks we figure out that

we can have that protector part take a back seat and be a little more engaged and have those talks

and be more mature uh more present with it so I think we're all trying to figure that out

to some degree I like it I've got

hmm

I really appreciate that your team looks like inside out but you also mentioned a protector and

like rescuer and different roles that are you're you're kind of putting names to different roles

with different parts of you they're performing different jobs inside of you excuse me

and I can really relate to that I heard of a counseling theory uh when we were going to college

where it was like you've got a team of people and I instantly envisioned like and you might not

know this show but the team on the show serenity yeah now serenity was a movie firefly was a show

anyway so there's a team of people on the spaceship yeah anyway sci-fi western kind of thing

but like one of them is like the guns expert another one is a thief another one is you know so you

have a it's just like like the hobbits and all the dwarves and everybody had different jobs and

but for me the way I think that I understood it first is like a board meeting for a big corporation

and you got half of the board over here and you got half of the board over here

and they're kind of working against each other when I mentioned like a civil war inside of a person

I had a civil war going on this side did not like this side and they only talk bad about

themselves so if I was talking to somebody I'd be like yeah well watch out for me I'm kind of I

struggle with this and this and this here's my weaknesses and that's how to introduce myself and

like kind of yeah giving that problem to future self but then it became a point when I was like

this is a lot of hardship this is a bunch of drama I'm in a toxic romantic relationship

I'm struggling and drinking a lot of alcohol in my particular life and story and I was like

there's got to be a better way to run this business kind of thing and so like I said what can we

do to bring everybody together and you know there's no easy quick answer for anybody and

especially I had been in counseling seven years and EMDR eventually kind of set me free with E-MDR

stands for iMovement decisionation reprocessing I know you're trained in it but just for my listeners

but there came a point when I guess to put it in the same

context with that analogy like where we had a board meeting I mean I read I read the codependency book

I read so many self-help books which did help they all helped in little ways to me to call this

meeting and say why why are we working against each other we're sabotaging ourselves

you know we want a long term romantic relationship we're sabotaging ourselves we're picking the

healthy people we're attracted to our toxic so that means we're toxic and it all comes back to you

guys in this board meeting like get your act together let's brainstorm and like I threw this

pebble in the pond with my wife along this lines was I realized how I was interacting with her own

civil war and of course my civil war is not completely over but it's so small now that you know

mostly in unity which gives you so much energy but emotional energy but so I dropped the pebble

in her pond and I was like she was like how do I stop this war inside myself because she adopted

my analogy for that and I was like I don't know how do two countries come to peace

can you guys make a peace treaty can I mean I you guys talk to one person I know it's confusing

but maybe to our listeners I know you understand what I'm saying but like it's it's like

can we make some some peace rules like well I won't sabotage everything you try to do if you don't

talk bad about me in public okay well I won't you know overeat all night long and drink alcohol

if you get me to bed at a decent time it's like I mean it's win win I mean it's win win right it's

so you like come to these peace accords these peace talks anyway so I fully explored that rabbit hole

but yeah let me ask a corner or let me ask you a question does your body does your body know what

day it is not usually does your body have the ability to read a calendar well yes you're my eyes

your brain does but your your body does not right your body does remember every experience or

situation that it was in previously and knows how to activate it and mobilize energy cortisol adrenaline

all of those fun things and a lot of times those things are stored up for days weeks years hence

why EMDR is helpful because you go back and you release that energy so it's like you're it's a

peace treaty between your body's hesitation and wanting to fight and your brain trying to figure

it out and calm it down and figure out who's right who's wrong yeah and we're really at war with

ourselves when I think I shared this experience with you but like I had the experience in MD

MDR eventually where at the end of it actually where I me and I guess something symbolizing my

inner child came together reconciled and walked out of the broken trauma memory or whatever

and it was at that point that I I regained and that was mostly the board meeting that I'm talking

about because the inner child had most it's part of the board and the grownup had it's part of the

board and the inner child was like and I would think like ego's a part of that too or another way

maybe to say it the ego part of you and a part of me and it ends up that ego is just another voice

at the table and it has the power that I give it and it is acting as a protector so many times

but if I take myself out of the danger then my protector can kind of calm down a little bit you know

it's the energizer but yeah so that was that was the moment of the board meeting that I'm talking

about that was the moment moment when I reconcile with the inner child inside of me

first time I met my inner child I cried I cried a lot that was a rough one then it would be

a couple years before I ever really tried to connect with him again and probably

closer to a decade before I really got to understand him and have a better work in relationship

or collaborative relationship yeah there so yeah I can understand your experience and what you're

describing well you know in light of what we're talking about makes me you know when I say the

boring tedious small you know annoying things I can still hear a part of me that is not on board

with what's going on you know yeah well I mean we're going deep here we're going so deep I mean

but but yeah I can still I mean I didn't realize it till this moment which I think speaks a great

deal to your skills but and you know the mind too but to this collaboration let's say I like

what you said and so but like I realize that because I'm starting to change that language

well and that's the thing you do when you serve your future self you're really serving the parts

yourself that you don't know how to serve that you don't know how to reach you know in essence or

you could be what do you think yeah not I would agree with that yeah trying to make your life better

it's really a lot so I guess to break it down for listeners I would think like what are we talking

about here we're talking about do you ever talk bad about yourself absolutely ever talk so

good about yourself that you convince everybody that's not true oh nine minutes this time

oh my dear lord

you

work work work

good okay so Colin it seems like you might have a few rabbit holes that we haven't got

to explore yet so I want to check in with you and see if there's anything you want to talk

about then we've talked about already a little bit more cool thanks for putting me on the spot oh

no it's okay so I mean we've been talking about a lot of great topics the one I feel like we

didn't really touch base on or the one that sticks out is how do you get your needs met and

that's been one that you know I've had to sit with because kind of like that inner child or other

like that conflict of the two like warring parties or civil war they're both trying to get their

needs met and that's why they don't want to give up ground to really fight or I guess concede

to the other part but kind of how I explain it the easiest way is

and you probably heard this from me when we're at launch or something like that say there's a pilot

flying over the desert crash lands he's walking for two days no supplies what would his first need be

yeah well it depends on if he wants to survive or not but I'm assuming survival and that would be

water okay what would his second need be I mean this I guess this does assume a lot of things but

assuming he's well-dressed and protected from the elements I guess you need food okay why would his

second need not be water again yeah because we think he's got once he establishes well yeah I'm

going to explain my think once he establishes a reliable source of water then he's going to go look

for food but you're right he might get a little bottled water which keeps him alive but he might

need water again right so where I was going with that was once we get a need met we stop having a

thirst for that need it goes on to the next need so if our two warring civil war parties or

tables if a need is not being met it's going to continue to have a thirst and that's usually

going to have a lot of frustration and anger and like contention while the other side is trying to

get needs met so similar to you helping your neighbor you're getting connection you're getting

alignment with your inner values beliefs you're getting those needs met you're not doing this for

somebody else to meet your needs same thing with my niece and nephew going to a play get some

connection if you'll understood feel engaged be authentic I got a lot of those needs met

but we overlook those needs quite a bit I overlook those needs quite a bit and I stick to you know

whenever somebody steps on my foot you know I feel ignored I feel dismissed I I am more comfortable

and I know those negative I guess needs so much better than I do the good stuff the positives

yeah okay so yeah so let me go back to your question how do you get the needs met I've thought

about that I have some brainstorming thoughts about that and I qualify with brainstorm because I

don't know the quality but they just come to me so I mean that's a good question to think about

also for our listeners like because you're right I mean I know a lot about war and combat because

of my time in a Marine Corps and just understanding how the tactics and logistics and all that

stuff kind of comes together in the battlefield but here's the craziest thing of all like in this

civil war with myself the it's funny and I think strangely ironic that the major need the both

sides need met is not anything to do with physical survival it has to do with being heard

you know if you think about the Civil War in America and I am not even prepared to analyze that

at any depth but at my basic ninth grade knowledge I'm not a history major I will preface that

with the disclaimer but with my ninth grade knowledge I would say the south was saying we want this

we need this you know and the north was saying well we want this we need this and nobody

was listening so what happens they start shooting guns and I think listening

well you I mean I'm not telling you anything new but listening changes people's lives

but that's the thing that I was telling my wife and that's the thing that I think eventually happened

with me and my EMDR was I was giving that angry childhood inside of me everything it asked for

the second it asked for like a spoiled toddler and guess what like a spoiled toddler it was not happy

and it was not content and it wanted something else and it always went something else but here's

the thing that we forget to give it or we don't think about and that's listening that's hearing

and you know and it is the deep listening and you know that's something I mean I have a little

bit of like a toe in the pond of child therapy because I did some art therapy classes

and and I really enjoy like kids because all they really need I mean yes they get hungry yes they

need a bed and a house but what they really need most of all for their development as a human being

is to be listened to and somehow you have been having been a parent you know and knowing other

parents that seems like the very last thing we have time for or that we want to do is actually listen

we'd rather throw them a box of pop tarts it's like how how hungry do you feel where do you feel the

hunger do you know what the hunger is in your body what the noise is you know how that works

no I don't know well the hunger doesn't say you're going to die you know for instance I'm running

through a fake scenario here but a sample scenario but you know the hunger doesn't kill you

you know what do you think happens if you don't get food or maybe they might even say I think I die

or I get angry or whatever but as you're listening and it's like no you know now I know

felt like when you're stomachs hungry it's because you don't have any more glucose in your blood

and it's switching over to run on ketones and ketosis I know all that now I wish I knew

it to tell my kids that but when my kids I was like well I have snacks for you and they're healthy

and they're in the counter and you can go get some whenever you want you know whatever so I tried

to provide healthy alternatives as me personally but at the same time now I know more now I could

offer more but I would say it was all connected to listening and I think how does that you know

how do you bring peace to war in countries it's when they sit down on the table and they listen

to each other well what did you want well I needed our country needs access to oil okay well we

can give you access to oil here what you guys want well we just wanted you to not kill us okay

well we'll stop killing you you know and people are listening and you know that brings me

and I'm gonna go crazy I don't even call it digress maybe progress because it's not backwards

as forward but like in our world today like very few people are listening and it feels like every day

different factions of even America are at war at some level and mostly verbal but it's like

you know what walks right through the middle of all these conflicts is one person willing to listen

like and even that there was going to listen to the other side I myself listened to all sides

all the time because I'm not on the side when it comes to politics I'm sideless and that might

piss as many people off as for me to say I was on the side but still I'm sideless but what that

affords me is ability to go into somebody's life and listen to whatever they're throwing at me

from that particular arena and then be like and I'm not upset and they're like don't you watch

news I'm like no I don't watch news wow maybe that's how I have all this time to do all these

crazy things these businesses because I don't I don't watch the news you know what about world

events what about this what about that it's like they I mean I don't stream it I don't have cable

TV I get a little news here and there but I'm just saying the listen I guess let's go back to

listening I did move off of that but what do you think about listening as being the main need

to resolve that conflict inside yeah so I think it's a very big one I think everyone's gonna

have different needs that are priorities but I agree with you one of the things I really liked

about you especially back in school was all of your art and a lot of your engagement because it

gave so many other on-ramps for people to get heard in ways that they weren't able to so yeah

in that regard I do feel like you know you do have something there when there's parts of you that

don't know how to explain it talk about it figure it out because even with the food thing yeah

parents could just keep throwing pop tarts at their kid and figuring it out I think just as

detrimental is you know if a kid says you know mom I'm hungry and the mom's like shut up you're

not hungry you just ate a little while ago now that kid can use that feeling of I guess I'm not

hungry and tries to feel that somewhere else yeah and you know and I appreciate you saying that

and I and it clarifies it a lot but I want to clarify it for the audience too they're like I'm not

trying to say anybody's a bad parent I'm not trying to say we're in a social world where this these

are normal things where we have to two people have to work and they have to provide for a family

they do their best and you know the kids get something to eat well the kids get something to eat

that's something it's not nothing but I had just evaluating mostly my time as a parent and

lessons learned and I hope I hope people can grab something from our conversation something that's

better for them than a part-tart pop tart but sorry I mean go watch a video on how they might

pop tart believe me hopefully it's trading itself out but but yeah so you know yeah the listening

piece and you know I have all that I want to listen to families I want to listen to kids and

those people stand in front of me sometimes and you know we get that opportunity but right now in

the podcast we're also inundated who I actually pulled out the big word we're also distracted

and inundated with all this data and the news and TV shows and iPads and you know you need them

to survive at some level I get it I'm just saying it's so amazing to me that the simplest thing

is a solution for the hardest problems and that is you know I tell people I've done so much

talk on listening but I can't believe I'm talking about it from a new angle this time but it's like

just if you want to really listen step one put everything down should everything off sit down facing

the person and ask them you know how are you doing right now yeah I breath to breath life to life

you know there is no human that I ever run into that is not ready to be listened to

how about you Colin what do you think I mean that's what I do for a living uh

but exactly oh well I would say there are people that just don't know how

you're right to talk about what their needs or what they feel or what they're just so detached

that yeah it's tough so I think there's always yeah go ahead there's always room to grow or

starting point to get there but you got to put in that time and effort to get present

uh and connect it yeah yeah well and and and I want to clarify something that I said

it's like I seem to be revolving around language and words but I like something you pointed out

like art give your kids some crayons notice what they draw listen to their art you know and at

different ages and their development they have no words right I mean at different ages of their

development they have raw emotion they have artistic ability so like pay attention you know look

at where they're at and see what they do and you know listening doesn't even have to be a conversation

that takes words it can be just you we listen primarily this is crazy we listen primarily with our eyes

right we're watching videos we're watching we're reading books reading books is just listening

to a book with your eyes you know you don't actually audibly hear it you know so you know

that's a I don't maybe not primarily but at least partially maybe mostly but maybe not with

our eyes and of course then there's there's a deaf population which of course or the blind

population which can't listen with their eyes at all so yeah so maybe we pull in information from

all of our senses and they all have value yeah a hug yeah listening with our ears listening with

our eyes paying attention paying attention pays ourselves I don't know I agree with that so much

easier to take some Advil and drink an energy drink and not pay attention to ourselves go right

off to work yeah yeah we've all sat I mean those are my shoes you're talking about that's my chair

I've sat in that chair I've lived that life you know where's coffee coffee coffee coffee before I

was asleep a more coffee I mean yeah I think the Marine Corps runs on anger and coffee those are two

things but yeah so wow well I guess we can wrap up there I think we we've encountered and explored

and discovered plenty of rabbit holes so yeah well thank you for joining me on this expedition

yeah thank you having me it is to me it's been so much fun it's been so insightful and I really

appreciate your time thank you I appreciate as well this was a lot of this was a great time

I felt heard and connected oh good that's man those are the best things ever doesn't it feel good to

be listened to I love it yeah and you know I mean in my closing thought I know I just think

it by but like think about this we can listen to ourselves mind blown you know with all of our

senses but anyway thank you all of my listeners for joining us this evening if you have any

questions or comments please feel free to there's little links that you can click on to to let me

know and until next time until next week thank you for joining us goodbye