S3 Ep12: Jessica - "I Believed We Were Going to Be Executed"

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Con eso en mi vida hermoso.

Jessica me dio su diseño y fue a trabajar en una escuelta en Nairobi, Kenya.

Por supuesto, después de dos meses en mi contracto, me meté un guay.

Y luego se terminó de marcar el guay, un suelo named Eric.

Y los dos fueron presuyendo carreras en East Africa.

Jessica le dio la escuelta y encontré un nuevo trabajo.

Mi trabajo era para entrenar nuestro trabajo que fue empleado por D&G y Cogs Mobile.

En informar y educar comunidades sobre los damas de la edad de la tierra

y por la escuelta de la escuelta.

Y también, tenemos una campaña sobre la comunidad de safety y la comunidad de la comunidad de la comunidad

y en la complicación.

Y entonces se torturó a las personas que cobraron contra la escuelta y la escuelta.

Y ahora, aquí es una muy decomposition de Bolíac, la política de Somalia.

Somalia ha shaped como un 7,

y, Essentially, por lo tanto, si pensaba de la Cámara de África y el horno,

estaba en el Topo de la 17 en Hargaysa,

que estaba en el Somalilán, donde todo el ethereum,

en las autoridades de los agencias en forma de hubo un presidento,

en la parte de la 7UP,

y fue un poco de un poco de el productive del USW.

El husband did a lot of work in Puntland,

actually, because he had been working in Somalia

for a very long time.

And so he knew that area very well,

and he worked with the Ling government infrastructure.

And then there's the bottom part of the seven,

which is where Mogadishu is, Galkayo.

At the time, it was governed by Ashrabab,

which is an Islamic terrorist extremist group.

So lots of bombings, lots of stuff going on.

We didn't have that issue in Somali land,

but that isn't to say that it was necessarily safe.

I guess I never felt unsafe, if you will,

because there I always had somebody around me protecting me.

I was there with my husband.

And we traveled with armed guards.

I wasn't really allowed to drive or travel by myself.

If I went on a walk, I needed to take a guard with me

who carried an AK-47.

So I mean, it was a very closed off kind of way of living.

Like you lived in a compound.

My husband and I moved into our own house.

And but it was still in compound.

You have walls around you.

You have geats.

We had an outdoor kitchen, which was super fun.

I still miss that, actually, very basic.

And but then you kind of like shut yourself in at night.

In October of 2011, Jessica was scheduled

to go on a training trip with her coworker Paul.

How well did you know Paul?

Paul and I were good friends.

He was 30 years older than me.

He was my dad's age.

But we had a lot.

He played the guitar I like to sing.

And there's not a lot to do with your time.

So we ended up being hargasted entertainment

and would perform it all of the house parties.

Even though she obviously got along with Paul,

she did not want to go on this particular trip.

So I had gone down to Galkaya where he was based.

That's in the southern Al Shabab part of the country.

And I hadn't wanted to go.

I had actually canceled the training

that I was supposed to do there for twice.

I'd canceled it twice.

And then I tried to cancel it a third time

because I just didn't feel good about it.

They were constantly having security issues down there

that were more like clan related.

The town was ruled over by two conflicting clans

and so it wasn't that we were like a target.

So I thought or so I was told.

This is lived to tell.

The podcast where I talk to some of the bravest people

who have been through the most horrifying things

and lived to tell the tale.

I'm Caitlin Van Maul.

Jessica offered to bring the staff up to Harcasa

out of her budget.

Instead of her going town to Galkaya.

But he said no.

Like if you don't want to get down here into your job

then I'll find somebody else who will basically.

Kind of like, I'll talk to your boss and who is his boss

and tell them that you're not going to get down here

and do your job.

And you know, on one level, okay, yeah.

This is what you've signed up for

because you do know there are risks going into something like this.

But on the other hand, you have the right

to your making decisions around your own personal security.

So Jessica went down and did the training.

So it was around three o'clock in the afternoon

when we were leaving the staff training

that we'd done that day and everything had gone really well.

And so I was happy, right?

And I was really like, oh my gosh, I'm almost home free.

I just need to get back to that office

in the north part of the city, get my workout in, you know,

like, what are we gonna have for dinner?

And then I'm gonna be out like seven a.m.

the next morning I'm flying back to Harcasa

and I was being paranoid for no reason, you know?

And we get into the convoy of the encroachers

that had come to pick us up.

We've got arm guards in the front, arm guards in the back.

In this caravan of vehicles,

Jess and Paul were in the same car.

Then we pulled through the gates

and we started driving through the town in Galkayo

and then we're cut off on the right side

by another vehicle that splashed his met up

all over Windows and our windshield.

And I remember wearing distinctly looking up

Paul's in the front passenger seat,

which is on the left because the steering wheel's on the right.

And I was sitting behind him in the back

and I said, what a jerk, who drives like that?

And then I hear the crack of the bed of an Inc. 47 on the car hood

and it sounds like we're being surrounded by very angry men.

And then Raabji Rizak, who's the security advisor

who is the local guy who was running point

on the convoy movement.

And he was sitting next to me and his car doors pulled open.

And there's a very angry man dressed in a police uniform

with an Inc. 47 standing there.

And he pulls up to Rizak out.

He doesn't even give him a chance to take a seat.

Well, if he just rips him right out of the seatbelt,

slams into the ground and hits him in the head

with a butt of his gun.

And I'm just watching this thinking like, oh my God.

And then he puts the gets in and puts the gun in my head

and starts screaming at the driver to drive.

And he just like takes off like a bat out of hell.

Man, we are like up on two wheels.

We're down like it feels like the car is going to flip.

Paul's up there begging the driver to slow down kind of.

He's like, you're going to kill us.

Oh my God, we're going to die like slow down, slow down.

And basically we drive like that for hours.

Jessica was obviously terrified and felt this was so surreal.

I think it's just shock, right?

This can't possibly be happening.

I am Jessica Buchanan.

I am a school teacher from Ohio.

Like things like this don't happen to people like me, right?

I'm just like your average girl.

OK, yes, maybe it's not so average being

in a place like Somalia to work.

And I'm sure anybody who is finding themselves

in the middle of a trauma, a crisis,

thinks that because it's so far outside your realm

of anything you can comprehend.

All I know is I'm being driven deep into the desert

by a group of armed men that kept stopping

and changing personnel and then forcing

us into different vehicles, separating us

and driving us into different directions.

I mean, we just did this for hours

until at one point in the middle of the night,

they forced us out and made us walk into the desert

and get down our knees.

And I thought, I believed we were going to be executed.

I really and truly believed I was going to die.

I mean, it was so far, the single most terrifying moment

of my life.

And then they tell us to lay down in the dirt and go sleep.

I mean, it was meant to terrify us.

It was meant to establish control.

It's funny how your body and your mind

will work together to protect you.

And I did, I fell asleep.

And I woke up a couple of hours later, I guess.

It was getting light out.

I could see I'm surrounded.

I mean, dozens, 20, 30, maybe 40 men heavily armed,

machine guns, AKs, rocket launchers.

I mean, we're talking like a militia here.

And it was hell.

Jessica knew there were really only two reasons.

They would be kidnapped, religion, or money.

My first fear was that this was ideological.

If that was the case, then there's really no reasoning

with people like that because they want to make a point.

And they're trying to get a message across.

And so you're just out of luck.

Fortunately, and unfortunately for me,

they just wanted money.

So it took us a couple of weeks to establish

that with certainty that that's what they wanted.

And then who knows how true I don't know.

All of this is where I was getting my information.

But it appeared that their ransom demand

started at $45 million.

And that is a lot of money.

But what they didn't know is that the rescue effort

kicked off immediately after they were taken.

There were armed guards traveling in the front,

and armed guards traveling in the back.

And they had some of our Somali staff.

And so they witnessed this happening.

So they go back to the guest house, report this

to the security advisor and Nairobi.

So they learned very quickly what had happened to us.

And like my husband was notified in less than an hour

that we had taken.

So that in that meant that US embassy

was notified that an American citizen had been kidnapped.

And then that got the ball rolling with the FBI and everything.

But Jessica had no way to know what was happening on the other end.

And this was three years after the real Captain Phillips,

you know, from the movie Tom Hanks, I'm the Captain No, was abducted.

There were a lot of kidnappings happening on the sea,

on the Indian Ocean.

But they were containerships, right?

And they were loaded down with tens of millions dollars worth of merchandise.

And many people, like a whole crew and a captain, you know,

I mean, $45 million is still a lot,

but probably a little bit more reasonable to ask for a ship

in all of its contents and crew.

But two aid workers, $45 million is ridiculous.

I mean, any of it's ridiculous.

So, you know, I heard that our organization

encountered with $20,000.

That's a wide gap.

Yeah.

And negotiations can take years because of that.

Because the disparity in the two figures is so large.

And in a stall, negotiation stall for many months, if not years.

Who were they negotiating with?

My organization streamlined to one point of contact.

So there was a communicator on the line

when they would put us on the phone for proof of life calls.

And so that information was being recorded.

And I did know that the company had a kidnapping

and ransom insurance, which is good.

And so part of that is supplying the organization

and crisis with a professional hostage negotiator.

And so that's who they're communicating with.

Okay.

And it's not like the government's not paying money.

Your family's not paying money.

US government does not pay money.

My family couldn't have paid that.

There, Michael Scott Moore, a German-American guy

who has taken, did not work for an organization.

He was freelancing when he got taken

right at the same area that I got taken

in his like 80-year-old mother had to do the negotiations.

And it took him like over 900 days to get out.

If so, Americans, American government does not negotiate.

They don't negotiate.

But the American government was aware of

and kept informed about the situation.

While they were negotiating,

Jason Paul just had to sit on their mats.

I'm being surrounded by so many men.

The fear of sexual assault was on Jessica's mind.

And terrified every single moment of every single day.

Like, I was so vulnerable.

I had a couple of things going for me, I think.

On one hand, I was a little bit older.

I think then, you know, a lot of the guys I was 31.

And a lot of these guys were like 18, 19.

So, you know, I think that they thought I was just old.

And, you know, I'm very tall.

I'm almost six feet tall.

So I'm like, I always say I'm a substantially size person.

And so I think my size helps me in some ways.

And I think the other thing that helped

is that I told them I lied and said I was a mother.

And I made up this whole story about having a son.

And I used the name of my dog,

thinking that if they use that as some sort of negotiation

tactic, Eric, my husband would know

and figure out I had this whole story.

And because what else do I have to do besides make up stories

in my head, I had this whole storyline.

I kind of think that that helped

because they would ask me about my baby a lot.

Because, you know, Somali men, they revere their mothers.

Although, you know, I was fighting off some of the older guys

in the middle of the night.

There was one who seems to be real.

And he would get on top of me or he would touch me.

And I was, I would have to try to get him, you know,

I mean, he was kind of like frail, old.

So I don't think I'm going to take him any much.

But also like, you don't want to piss off the guys in charge.

It was steadily becoming something

that I was going to happen to me.

I knew that it was coming as a means of like punishment.

It was just a constant like, isn't going to happen today

and who's it going to be?

This isn't incredibly like obvious question.

But why didn't you escape?

Why didn't you just run away?

People asked me that all the time.

Well, I had no idea where it was.

And it's the desert.

You can't, there's no way I could cure enough water.

I was like surrounded by armed men the entire time.

And I figured out pretty quickly that the rest of the villages

that we were near were in boots like this

was a collaborative effort.

So I figured if I tried to run away and got caught,

which I most likely would then, who knows,

I probably would be tied to a tree for, you know,

24 hours a day or something.

So I took the approach of try to build some trust

in some camaraderie with my captors

and just be as submissive and obedient as possible

so that, you know, the treatment gets better.

I mean, in over a long period of time,

that is a really like psychologically damaging way

to be in the world.

But I think for, you know, a short period of time

when you're just trying to survive, like for me,

that was the approach to take.

As Jessica said before,

they didn't have much hope of getting released

in any type of timely fashion.

So the days went on and on and on.

I think a typical day would look like

my ears always woke up before my eyes did

if that makes sense because there were sounds, you know,

there were birds, there were men, you know,

in our camp, so anywhere from nine to 30 men,

so lots of noises, lots of coughing or talking

or making tea.

I had to sleep out in an open field at night on a mat.

And so once the sun came out in full strength every day.

And so we would move our mat from the field

and go sit under a tree, under an occasion tree,

which the leaves are very fine and small.

And so it's not a lot of shade.

It's a little bit, but you're just sitting there

blistering in the heat and in the sun.

Pretty much that's what I do.

I would sit there on my mat.

I could use the toilet, which was basically

just going to a bush.

Some days I could wash with bottled water

or water that they would bring in jury cans

that had, it was like lease with diesel

because they would use the jury cans

to bring diesel out for the cars.

And then you're sweating and then you're freezing

and then body hairs growing.

My hair was shorter at the time, so that was good.

But I mean, someone brought me a fork

and then I just combed my hair with a fork

in a little mermaid.

A little mermaid.

That's what I was thinking about, her doppelganger,

whatever she called it.

I mean, I totally did that.

Paul and I tend to share a bar of soap

that had, and actually everybody wanted to use the soap,

you know, like in camp, which is really gross.

I ate tuna fish out of a tampon applicator

for like two weeks and I would just wash it out

and it helped like me scoop up the food without,

I mean, you can imagine how dirty I mean,

I was just like, it's just disgusting.

Jessica was taken with Jessica clothes on her back

about six days in, I think I took my underwear off

to wash it and then somebody took it.

And so I had no underwear throughout the captivity.

So I had a pair of pants on like flowy pants

and a Dura and a scarf on my head.

And that's it.

They brought me a couple of small e-dresses

and I remember somebody bringing me like a shirt,

like a sweatshirt or something kind of like that.

I distinctly remember washing one by hand in a hubcap.

Like I guess that was like the only basin we had

and just like scrubbing every inch of it, right?

Because if you could take me two hours

to do something like that,

I was just looking for ways to use the time

so that the day would just pass.

And then some days they would be loaded into a car.

You know, sometimes they would drive us around

in the desert, we didn't know why,

we didn't know where they were taking us,

sometimes they would just drive us around in circles.

Other times we would be outside of the city of Adado,

which was a pretty big town camping

and they would drive us through town

and act like they were driving us to the airport

and then say, way goodbye, he'd call me Jesses.

Way goodbye, Paul and Jesses.

You're not getting on that airplane

until the $45 million has paid.

Cause and then just like thinking of ways

to torture you, essentially.

Especially Abdi, he was the head of the group

for a long time.

I mean, he just would, he was psychotic.

I definitely think that he was like a psychopath.

And Abdi was one of the ones

that spoke a little English, right?

He did.

I remember getting into an altercation

with him asking him for toilet paper

and it ended up him threatening me with the AK screaming

in my face, do you wanna die today?

You know, they knock us over, they'd hit us,

they'd slap us, they'd tell you to move two inches,

put a knife to your throat,

tell you they were gonna cut your head off

if they'd eaten $18 million in seven days,

tell you constantly that they were gonna sell you

to Al Shabab, take one of us from the camp

and then go fire off a round of ammunition

and then come back and say, we killed them

and they're dead and you'll never see them again.

You know, I would think Paul was dead

and then a week later he'd come back.

You know, so it's just like constant psychological torture.

And I think once I like, I passed the fear

then I would just get angry.

You know what I mean?

And just be like, you're so, you're so stupid.

Like you just don't understand,

like this is never gonna work for you.

Like we're all gonna die out here.

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Their captors were also constantly chewing

on the local drug of choice,

which did not help keep everyone calm.

So it's a plant.

It's called cat or chat.

And it's a big deal.

It's like an infatimine.

So they're addicted to it.

And it makes some paranoid.

It makes them, it's like drinking ten pots of coffee

or something.

It's like, yeah, it's like being on speed.

It's a very common custom.

It's very culturally accepted.

You know, they just chew this leaf.

It forms a paste in their mouth.

And then they have to drink really sweet tea

to combat the bitterness of it.

And I was used to that because I'd seen it

like everybody chewed chat and all the men do at least.

And so I was used to being around that,

but living amongst it was different.

And I know that, I mean, there's not much you can do about it.

Especially in an environment like of terror

and filled with guns, like stimulants

or what we need, the paranoid and very short fuses.

So yeah, it was problematic for sure.

So you said most of them were like 18 or so?

I mean, they veered there, but they were young.

Probably as young as like 16.

We even had like a 12 year old boy, Abdulahi.

He was, he was piece of work.

Abdulahi's presence in the camp was notable

not just because of his age,

but kids like him were why Jessica

got into this type of work in the first place.

It definitely was cause for an existential crisis.

I had to sit there under that tree day in and day out

and dissect what I believed and why I believed it

and be really honest about the holes in my belief system.

You know, I think first and foremost,

no one asked me to come.

I came on my own admission.

So for me to think that there is any kind of like gratitude

or allegiance to me being where it's ridiculous,

you know, thinking that you can go in and save the world,

which is just like white savior syndrome.

But also just young, right?

Like what else was I gonna do at 25, 26?

You know, I was just gonna be stupid and make dumb decisions,

but my heart was in the right place.

But then you have to have this conversation around like

impact and intention, right?

And then, you know, secondly, like desperate people

do desperate things.

It's not an excuse, but it's a reason.

And I strongly believe in development and humanitarian aid,

even as the administration that we're underneath now

has completely dismantled any kind of humanitarian

organizations.

I believe that it is fundamental to stability and peace

because when people are have full bellies

and they have their most basic and fundamental human rights

met, then crime goes down.

And so I understood in a way why they did what they did.

Again, I'm not excusing it.

I don't have Stockholm syndrome.

Trust me, I wanted to get the heck out of there.

But I get it.

I have two kids now.

I would probably stop at nothing to make sure

that they had food.

And I would hope I had to have the moral compass

not to kidnap people.

But I get it.

The year before Jessica and Paul were kidnapped,

Jessica's mom unfortunately passed away,

sitting under the Akisha trees,

having absolutely nothing to do,

gave her the time to process her mom's passing

and their relationship as a whole.

Well, she was with me.

My mom struggled with mental health

while she was living, especially during my like

adolescent years.

And that had a strain on our relationship.

There was a lot of responsibility put on me

because I was the oldest.

And so then a lot of resentment built up in me

because I didn't understand, right?

And so while I didn't necessarily feel understood

or protected while she was alive,

she very much showed up for me during my captivity.

There was a reparation in our relationship

during my captivity.

Just because her spirit was with me so strongly,

her presence was with me.

I could sense it.

I did a lot of deep forgiveness work.

I think while I was out there,

I think I understand her now more.

Obviously, as I grew older,

as I've had my own children,

as I've struggled with my own mental health

as a result of trauma.

I mean, her mental health originated

from losing her family when she was a child.

So, you know, she had good reason for it.

And also, you know, using that as a example

of what I didn't want when I came out

and being committed to being doing the hard work

of supporting my own mental health.

And so I think that it was pretty extraordinary, actually,

the time that we had together while I was out there.

And I don't think I would have been able to have that

had I not had everything strict away.

About four weeks into their captivity,

Paul told Jessica something

that could have prevented all of this.

I didn't find out until day 27

that there was an actual kidnapping threat

on the organization.

He didn't disclose that information to me.

So my ability to make a decision

about my own personal safety was taken away from me.

My autonomy was taken away from me.

What did he say when he told you?

My memory is that we were just sitting on a mat,

on our mat, and it was day, it was like 26, 27.

And he was basically like,

I need to tell you something.

So it was an omission.

And I was just, I just remember the feeling of,

oh man, I was such a gut punch.

Just felt this like wave of disbelief wash over me.

And then it was a very conscious decision that I had to make.

Like I am going to have to decide,

not just sit here and grieve this,

or to like wallow in this,

or even like hold on to anger,

because I don't have enough energy resources

for those emotions.

I have to can link in order to survive whatever this is,

and how long it's going to take.

I have to, I have to put that on a shelf

over here in compartmentalize.

Yeah, and you still just for like your mental survival

need to think of Paul as an ally.

100%.

He was all I had.

We were all each other had.

And they got each other through a lot.

But around the time, 2011,

turned into 2012.

Jessica's situation got dire.

You know, thanks to the lack of hygienic conditions,

I got a urinary tract infection,

which I was afraid of.

And I knew,

because I dealt with them all the time,

exactly what medication I needed,

exactly how to combat it.

And of course I didn't have things like underwear,

like clean underwear.

But you know, I asked for medication,

they wouldn't bring me anything

or they'd bring me the wrong thing.

And it just started,

it, you know, it went into a kidney infection.

And I knew this because I'd had a kidney infection

the year before and I'd been hospitalized for a week.

So I knew what was happening.

And I also knew that if I didn't get medical assistance,

fairly soon I would go septic and I would die.

And so my last proof of life call was January 16th, 2012.

And I told our family communicator,

and again, I'm a very direct person,

but I am not confrontational.

And I hate confrontation.

And I said to her, like,

like, you need to get me out of here.

Here are my symptoms, this, this, this, and this.

If you don't do something,

I'm gonna die out here and it's gonna be all your fault.

And like, this is hands down.

You people did this to me.

So I, you know, I get off the phone

not expecting anything and the condition

just keeps getting worse.

So I'm like, I have fever,

I'm having really bad pain, throwing up,

like the whole nine yards.

Then on January 25th, 2012,

93 days into their captivity.

There were nine guys on the ground that night

and they were all passed out.

I'm wake up in the middle of the night

within feeling like I need to be sick,

go do what I need to do and come back to my mat.

As soon as I got wrapped back up in my blanket

and got settled back in on my mat,

the night just erupted into gunfire.

And I mean, it took literally no time to shoot these guys

because they are like, they're asleep, first of all.

And so like, you know, that disoriented space

of sleeping awake.

And I think I'm being kidnapped by another group

because that was always a threat and a fear.

It was terrifying, absolutely terrifying.

I mean, people are being shot

and just dropping to the ground all around you

and you're just waiting to be shot.

I couldn't see anything.

It was just really dark.

It was so dark out and all I could make out

were like these dark fears

and they identified themselves as the American military

and they said, Jessica, we're here to take you home

that I realized, oh, I don't even think then.

I don't think I really, I couldn't comprehend.

Like, oh, I actually survived this.

I'm gonna make it through this.

It was a tremendous surprise.

I mean, shock doesn't cover it.

But I am infinitely lucky and fortunate to have survived.

A lot of hostages don't make it through something like that.

They're either shot by the kidnappers

or they get caught in the line of crossfire

and the fact that Paul and I both survived

and we're returned back to our families

is a tremendous miracle.

I don't know how you got up.

Even after they identified themselves

or ever like, let's go,

I think I would still just be in such shock

that like my body wouldn't function.

Yeah, I was just shaking.

And I couldn't walk actually.

They had to carry me off them, you know,

because I couldn't find my shoes

and I was so disoriented.

And yeah, it took a very long time

for the shock to wear off that is for sure.

Like, what do you mean?

Yeah, exactly.

You're American.

Wait, you're American.

I mean, I don't understand.

So I just couldn't compute.

I couldn't comprehend.

So they take you to like a military facility

and then where do you go?

And then we're transported to Italy

to another military facility.

And we received medical care.

I had to be hospitalized, obviously.

Of course, it cleared up really fast

because I needed IVs and drugs

and antibiotics.

And then I was tip-top.

And I'd lost about 45 to 50 pounds in three months.

So very malnourished, very dehydrated.

But before Jessica could see her family

or go home or do any sort of processing

of what she just lived through.

The FBI was on the ground and they wanted to debrief.

They, I mean, I call it, we were being interrogated

because it was just like, I mean,

they didn't give us a chance to sleep.

It was like, we need to hit the ground running

because they want to get these guys, right?

Because even though everyone who was at the camp

the night of the rescue was killed,

there were still many others that had guarded Jessica

and Paul during their captivity.

So just sitting for hours and answering questions

and just dumping out everything,

every license plate we had memorized,

every identifying feature about every single one of them.

We sat down with sketch artists

like the whole nine yards.

I mean, it's a violent crime against an American.

I'm all on a dean.

And so it was pretty intense.

They also learned that it was Jessica demanding medical help

that got them rescued.

That had set the wheels in motion

for a military intervention and I didn't know

that there are a couple of criteria

that need to be met in order for a military intervention.

If it's possible to take place and one of them

is if there's impending loss of life

due to disease or illness of the hostage.

And so that, of course, that message had gotten

a work his way up the chain of command.

The night of the rescue,

there had been nine men guarding Jessica and Paul.

One of them was a man they had nicknamed Helper.

Helper, his name was that year.

We had nicknames that we had come up with

for all these guys so that we could talk about them

in front of their faces without them knowing it.

And he was a religious man.

He was there as a driver.

He kept saying he wasn't there as one of the kidnappers

and that he owned one of the vehicles that would transport us.

And he prayed five times a day.

He had eight kids.

He would just look at me all the time

and just tell me how sorry he was.

I mean, he was a good man who probably

had really impossible circumstances.

Because they would be on a five day, on five day off cycle.

They were getting paid like 20 bucks a day,

which was a lot and their chat.

And I did feel like he protected me also in some ways from a soul.

I think he was respected and he would always sleep next to me.

And so I feel like I never felt threatened.

I felt like he was a little bit more fatherly even.

And unfortunately, he was shot and died right next to me

than I did the rescue, which was actually really hard for me

to process the to me a long time.

Yeah, what were the feelings around that?

Because the nicest kidnapper is still a kidnapper.

I mean, I know he's just the driver,

but I mean, it gets gray really fast, right?

Like nothing in life is black and white.

I felt sad.

I just felt like sad that this is like what people's

worlds come to.

Now, like, why do people feel forced?

Why do they have to feel forced into these situations

where they have to make bad decisions to put food on the table

for their kids?

And it's, I mean, I struggle with it every day,

thinking about like, why am I me and why was I born me?

And why do I have what I have?

And there are so many people in the world suffering.

And I've always struggled with that.

Like, I think this side of heaven, I will always,

that will be my number one struggle with being human.

I just don't understand because it all seems so unfair.

Like, why did I survive?

Why did I get rescued?

Like, what, you know, there are like hundreds of people

sitting in captivity still.

And I don't know.

And, you know, my husband said once to me,

and I guess like this is the only way I know how to deal with it.

He said, you just have to be really grateful.

You just have to like, stay really grateful and do what you can.

After the FBI was finally done with their questions,

or at least done for now, there was protocol already in place

for hostages coming out of captivity.

I was a part of the Department of Defense's hostage

reintegration program.

The protocol is very measured.

It's very controlled ahead of psychologists

assigned to me for support.

And he was amazing.

Dr. Ray, you know, medication so you can sleep

because the nightmares start immediately.

And, you know, the first two weeks were euphoric

because you're free and you've thought about this and visioned it

and prayed for it for hours and hours and days and days.

And then it happens and you're like, oh my God, this is amazing.

And then the world comes crashing down around you

because you're like, what now?

Like, who am I now?

Where do I go?

What do I do?

Like, you know, a lot of kidnapping victims, especially,

our trauma is tied to our work

because we are in these places because we are working.

So can I go back to work?

Like, can I go back to that place?

Like, who am I now?

What do I do if I don't have my job?

Like, how am I going to make money?

It's big and large and looming and heavy

and really overwhelming because your mental capacity

is really fragile.

And thank God, you know, I'm so lucky.

I have my husband and my dad, my siblings

who are just never in any support.

When did you say your family for the first time?

I thought my husband in Italy

then about a week after that we reunited

with my family out in Oregon actually

because the media was hounding my sister

couldn't get out of her house.

My dad was like having to take alternate routes and hide

and it was, it was crazy.

And so my sister and I were both born out in Portland

and my mom had died the year before all of this had happened

and we just kind of felt like that's where she would be

and that's where we all went to be.

And it was really beautiful.

We spent about a week 10 days out there just together

doing nothing other than taking walks

and sitting on the couch and drinking coffee

and catching up over 93 days that we had lost together.

How much did they want to hear about what happened to you?

They wanted to hear all of it.

But then I, you know, I started day one, day two

and then I think we got to do like day six

and I was like, I can't do this anymore.

You know, it's just too much.

It was too hard, it was too exhausting.

And I was having nightmares all night.

Like it was really hard.

I kept having these repetitive dreams that I was stuck.

I would be stuck in trying to get to somebody

to try to help them or I needed help.

And so I was exhausted.

So basically, you know, all I did was sit.

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Hi there, we are James Addan,

two thoughts of the hit UK podcast,

no such thing as a fish.

Each week we get around the microphones

with our four favorite facts that we've learned

over the last seven days and sit down to blow each other's mind.

Yeah, here's a fact for you, Dad.

In not theory, a circle of rope without a knot

is technically a knot, but it's called a knot knot.

Very good.

I go on here as well.

In 2019, a marathon runner with the words Jesus saves

written on his bid had a heart attack,

but was revived by a man called Jesus.

That's amazing.

Give you what to hear, more facts like that.

Search for no such thing as a fish wherever you get your podcasts.

In the corner of the couch and eat, we'll be right back.

Now that she was safe, Jessica had the space

to start feeling the anger at Paul

that she had to suppress during her kidnapping.

It came out in different ways, for sure.

And I will always say that that was my forgiveness journey.

People think that I was mad at the pirates that took me,

but no, I was mad at him.

And I was mad at my organization for,

I mean, my boss knew about the kidnapping

threat, the security advisor, who

was the regional security advisor knew about it.

And still, when I went through the procedural to get approval

to go on this trip, I followed every rule and every SOP to the T.

And they all said, well, we knew about it,

but we didn't think it was a viable threat.

And I just was like, what do you mean you didn't think

it was a viable threat?

It's Somalia.

It's always going to be a viable threat.

And this changed my life.

It changed the course of my life.

It changed me.

I feel like it changed me on a cellular level.

And they never ever took any kind of responsibility, not even

remotely, not even apologized to me for it happening.

Did Paul apologize?

No, not in my memory now.

It was more of a, well, you made the decision to go.

You knew what you were getting yourself into.

Well, I didn't.

And that would therein lies the rub.

We even did some professional mediation.

And it just, we could not.

He just wouldn't accept responsibility, his part.

So I was like, you know what?

I'm out.

I quit.

I'm not, I don't want to be associated with any of you anymore.

And I need to go on and start my life over again.

Did you sue the company at all that you worked for?

I didn't.

I went into you.

But at the time, I was just like so broken.

I just was like, I signed a settlement with them

so I can get therapy.

And so that was out.

I think I spent that in six months.

But going to therapy twice a week is really expensive

when you don't have insurance like covers it.

And so I made probably a short-sighted decision.

But it was also, it's an European company.

And it's different.

America is very litigious.

And I don't think I really thought.

I didn't want to go through it all over again.

Yeah.

So I just washed my hands of it and then

was really angry at them for a very long time.

Obviously being kidnapped for 93 days

would change your life and you as a person.

But Jessica was given hardly any time

to adjust before another huge change happened.

I got pregnant with my son like a week after the rescue.

And so I find out month into freedom

that I'm pregnant.

And for me, Kenya, in particular, was my home.

I had Eric and I had a home there.

So we would work in Somalia.

And at this point, I'm traveling all over East Africa.

So I'm not just working in Somalia.

I'm working in South Sudan.

You've gone to, but Nairobi was home for me.

And I couldn't picture having a child anywhere else.

I know that doesn't make sense to people.

But I lived there for a very long time.

So it was the health care system that I knew.

I knew the hospital.

I had my doctors there.

And I went in my son born there.

And so we went back to Nairobi.

Eric continued actually to work in Somalia.

I took time off and then took my maternity leave.

But shortly after he was born, it became very apparent

that I was not doing well emotionally and mentally.

I had terrible postpartum anxiety.

It was borderline psychosis.

I was convinced that my kidnappers

had family in Nairobi, which very well could have been true.

There's a huge Somalian population in Nairobi.

And that they were going to find me in my baby

and take him away.

And so probably about six months when he was six months old,

we made the decision to leave and to resettle in the US.

And this might seem like, oh, OK, they're just going home.

But Eric is from Sweden.

He'd never lived in the states before.

I hadn't lived there for almost 10 years.

So I had a very limited social network.

My family, of course, was there.

But we settled in the DC area to give him

the best chance at finding a job in the humanitarian sector

or the development sector.

But it was really hard.

It was really hard coming back to a place

I'd never lived in before in the US.

I had never planned on coming back to the US.

I mean, I call it surviving survival.

It was so, oh, my God, it was so hard.

Like, I get choked up just thinking about it

because I just didn't get a break.

My mom dies.

Then I get kidnapped.

Then I get pregnant.

Then I have to move.

And then I have to start over.

And it was just like, it just kept coming.

And it kept coming.

And it kept coming.

And I just didn't know.

I didn't know who I was anymore.

Being coming a mother or a fracture identity in half anyway.

And it was just like, I just kept becoming splintered

and splintered.

And I just felt like a fragment of who I was.

And it was so difficult.

In a lot of ways, I think it was harder than being kidnapped.

Because I had so many other decisions

that I needed to make.

And now I have this little human who's completely dependent

on me.

It kind of felt like being held hostage in a different way.

And so it's really taught me a lot about surrender

to change because I have no control over any of this anyway.

But like, yeah, the reinvention

and the rebuilding after your life blows up

is really not for the faint of heart.

Jessica needed help.

So first things first found a therapist.

Took a little while to find one.

I have actually had therapists tell me they think I'm too

complicated.

I guess you would say for them and to handle.

So that feels great.

Yeah.

Like, they didn't know how to handle the kidnapping.

Never handled a trauma like that before.

And so they didn't feel qualified to help me with my pain.

And so I find it like, you're too complicated.

Instead of, I don't have the skillsets.

It's a real way, a different way to say that.

I had one therapist tell me she just couldn't handle it.

And I was like, wow, okay.

But for someone who's in crisis,

all they hear is I'm too messed up.

For even a like licensed therapist to help me,

like what hope do I have in the world?

You know, that's like really how I felt.

And so I finally found a therapist who was amazing.

And I was in deep crisis.

And so I started going to her twice a week.

And she saved my life.

She saved my sanity.

I went to her for until she retired.

And to this day, and always just so grateful

for her steady wisdom and presence in my life.

Jessica also turned to writing to help her mental health.

And I've always written to process,

like that's always been my way of figuring out

how I feel about something.

But I would put them to bed like 738.

Then I would take like an hour or two to write.

And that is really, I think,

when the evolution of who I was becoming

in this next part of my survival journey

really took shape within those hours alone.

And I really do.

I don't, for me, I don't know how it is for other people.

But I think there is a large portion of time

in a healing journey that can really only be done in solitude.

I, it's that like metamorphosis,

space of like turning into the goo

when you're in the, in the chrysalis, right?

Like that can only be done in solitary confinement.

And so the time under the tree.

Yeah, yeah.

There's no space for anybody else's like opinions or instruction.

There's no wrong or right way to do it.

It just has to be done.

In order for you to move on to that next,

that next stage of your, of your development,

of your healing journey.

And so I just spent years like that, you know,

just writing.

And there's a book by a woman named Luis de Salvo

called writing as a way of healing.

And they've done all kinds of scientific research around

what happens to our bodies when we spend time writing about trauma

and our immune systems get stronger.

As we process through the trauma, you know,

our hearts get stronger, our heads get clearer.

And so I really credit that practice.

And I think it, it's useful for everyone.

Yeah, I think getting it out, yes,

is through talk therapy, through writing, all of it is.

Across the board, everyone I've talked to has said

that that's like the number one thing.

I call it like a feeling sexism.

Yes, well, you got to give it somewhere else to live.

Yeah, you have to get it out of your body.

So it doesn't make you sick.

Because it's toxic.

In Jessica's case, literally.

Yeah, so then you also got cancer?

Mm-hmm, I did.

I found out I had cancer in 2015.

I had thyroid cancer.

So to recap, her mom died in 2010.

She was kidnapped in 2011.

Early 2012 was rescued, had her first baby in 2012.

Then started over in the US in 2013.

Second kid, 2014.

And now 2015, cancer.

Though I had to go through cancer treatment

in the middle of all about two with two little kids.

I mean, you cannot convince me any differently

that that cancer wasn't sparked during the kidnapping.

So that I often don't even think about that

because after everything, I'm like, it was just one more thing.

Yeah, cancer being the least of your problems is...

I was at least dramatic of all the things

that I've been through, so I've never even...

I forget about it.

And then sometimes I'll be like, oh, yeah.

I did have cancer.

And I don't have a thyroid, and that's probably

why I'm just really tired and don't feel good.

So Jessica and her husband, Eric,

wrote a book about the kidnapping

called Impossible Odds.

It gives Jessica's account of her time and captivity

and details Eric's side trying to work to get Jessica out.

It was published in May of 2013,

just over a year after she was rescued.

So we decided to write Impossible Odds so quickly after,

and because I was pregnant,

and I knew that my life was just gonna get really fizzy

after the baby was born.

And so I wanted to have an account

before we forgot everything.

And then secondly, there were just hundreds,

if not thousands of people involved in my rescue,

and then getting me back.

And so there was no way I was gonna be able

to share my side of what happened with every single one

of these people.

So we did it as a way to say thank you.

And after all the casting about looking for purpose,

Jessica has found her calling,

supporting survivors on their storytelling journeys.

And really I do feel like that's what I am,

who I am here to serve and the business that I am to be in.

And so I think getting up in the morning,

knowing that you have something to do, right?

You have a job to do, whether it's a podcast,

whether you're, I don't know, a nurse or a teacher

or, you know, working at Wawa, like it doesn't matter.

Like you have to find something to do.

And you have to figure out who you wanna be.

And I have a mentor that always asks me,

what life do you wanna lead?

Who are you here to serve and what business do you wanna be in?

And so those are my three guiding principles,

you know, in terms of like how I move through the world today.

And so I think also the lightness came

when I was able to actually say and mean it,

I'm at peace.

How much did you struggle to get to that point?

And what helped you the most?

Time.

I mean, I wish there was some hack.

I wish it was faster.

I wish it was, you know, I wish I had some sort of secret,

like recipe for it, but it's just time.

And doing the work day in and day out.

You know, sometimes I would just get up in the morning

and think, oh, how am I gonna, you know,

how am I gonna get through this day?

And then I would look at myself in the mirror

and I would say the only thing you have to do today is be love.

Like the only thing you have to do,

that's the only, your only responsibility today.

It's to love your children.

Maybe the only responsibility you have today is to love yourself.

Maybe it's to love your dog.

Like that's the only thing you really have to do.

And so I think that that helped me exercise,

like compassion for where I'm at.

And, you know, when I do interviews like this

or tell a story, like I'm always brought back to that place

and that remembrance of like, wow, I've really been through a lot.

You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, it's okay.

Hey, if I need an app after this.

You know, like it's, it's okay.

It's, and being human is just so frickin hard.

And surviving it, you know, is, is bravo.

Once again, Jessica's books are called

How to Survive Survival and Impossible Odds.

And you can get those wherever books are sold.

This is Live to Tell.

I'm Caitlin Van Mall.

You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok

at Live to Tell podcast.

If you enjoy today's episode, please rate, review,

and subscribe.

It really helps the show.

I'll see you in two weeks.

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Hi there, we are James Add Dan,

two thoughts of the hit UK podcast.

No such thing as a fish.

Each week, we get around the microphones

with our four favorite facts

that we've learned over the last seven days

and sit down to blow each other's mind.

Yeah, here's a fact for you, Dad.

In not theory,

a circle of rope without a knot

is technically a knot,

but it's called a knot knot.

Very good.

I go on here as well.

In 2019, a marathon runner

with the words Jesus saves

ridden on his bid,

had a heart attack

but was revived by a man called Jesus.

It's amazing.

Give you what to hear more facts like that.

Search for no such thing as a fish

wherever you get your podcasts.

¿Qieres mejor internet?

Cox internet de 300 megas

tiene las velocidades

rápidas y confiables que buscas.

Perfecto para streaming y gaming

y trabajar desde casa.

Todo por solo $45 dólares al mes

cuando agregas coxmovo.

Incluye equipo de Wi-Fi

y garantía de precio de dos años en tu plan.

No esperes.

Cambiate hoy a cox.

Requiere coxmovo que iban a limitar

garantía de precio

no incluyen puestas y cargos

velocidades datos moviles

a reducer después de 20 gigas al mes.