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In this episode of Behold, we sit down with long-time partners in gospel work to talk about what happens when loving people means stepping into tension, grief, and unresolved situations. There are no easy answers, just decades of faithfulness and a deep conviction that Jesus is still at work in the mess.SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEW CHANNELhttps://www.youtube.com/@behold.podcast @behold.podcast Last Episode: https://youtu.be/k-cGCrR-imEWatch more episodes: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLK6oXv2ImzCII7jOHIUsPv4k9oSPmbnB0Send your questions to [email protected] us at arcadechurch.comFollow us on social mediaInstagram: @arcadechurchYouTube: @behold.podcast Facebook: Arcade Church#beholdpodcast #bible #christian #podcast #christianpodcast #parenting #parents #Theology #church #unionwithchrist #jesus #gospel #hopeinjesus #religion #christianity #worship #conflict #leader #socialmedia #mentalhealth #baptism #obedience #holyspirit #salvation #outreach #christiancare #care #rescue #humantraffickingawareness
Welcome to the old. I'm Beth and I'm Craig and we have a different set today because we are honored to have some special
They are incredible people. You're gonna love them. We just spent time chatting with Charles and Beverly
They are partners with us in the Middle East and in Europe doing discipleship training and and serving traffic
Women and on I mean, yeah, let's just too long to say everything. It is it is and Charles was telling us he
Started at arcade when he first became a believer and they sent him to Mexico on a mission strip
And he just kind of hasn't stalks. Yeah, and they they they have not stopped and it's a great lesson to us all you are gonna
Love this show and the kids should listen. Oh, absolutely. Yeah kids gather around watch your listen together. It is a great
Chat with it is it is are you ready? I'm ready. Are you ready? Which way are you going that way?
Oh, you're going that way. Oh, good. Here we go. Here we go
Well, hey guys. Thank you for joining us. It is so great to have you with us
Charles and Beverly are with us and
Beverly your plant hurt a little bit because you got your eyes dilated. Yeah, so I'm wearing sunglasses. You're not being mysterious
No, I'm just too cool. Yeah, you're way too cool. You're way too cool. It's so good to have you with us
Yeah, Charles and Beverly are partners with us
serving in the Middle East and Europe and we're being vague on purpose. Yes
The work you do is
Sort of undercover with that being accurate sort of
Sincere senses
Yeah, that's a better one. I wonder what the world wide web you got to be you got to be careful
Don't scare the fish thing and evangelism. Yeah
And the beautiful thing about you too is that you are our longest standing partners
It you've been partners with arcade church for 35 36 years. Yeah, about that. Yeah, I came to know Jesus in
1977 and they sent me to Mexico. I was like two years old
Seventy-year-old so I can actually say you've been behind me since I was a brand-new christmas. That is so
That's obviously like
As the leader of family ministries, I'm watching kids grow up and then get launched into things like
Ministry and and serving around the world. It's just so cool to
Look back kind of on this side of things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah knowing that your grandkids are are part of our church exactly
Yeah, which is really great. That's very cool very cool
So we want we just want to
Introduce you to the behold podcast listeners. Let them know a little bit about the work you guys are doing
um
Just kind of hear what what life is like for you and then how we can support any of our Jews. That's so good
That's great. So this is probably the hardest question you're gonna get asked because I'm sure every day looks different
But what is a typical day in the life for the two of you?
So I knew this was a hard question
So I actually talked to a member of my organizational board this morning who hung out with me a long time
Yeah in the middle east and he said
Basically, I spent a lot of time talking to people and encouraging them hopefully talking to God first
Yeah, connect and I think as I get older I need more that time and
We're looking through just staying close to Jesus being open to what he wants us to do each day
But communicating we have a small organization and I always feel like I'm
leader of it, but we kind of pastor at
Our members I talked to them
Monthly and of course and depending on where we are in the Middle Eastern Europe
We're working very much time zone
So often here we're up early talking to somebody in Europe or millies and there we're
You know our days and usually seven or eight
least because stuff happening in America is nine hour time difference
So and yeah, our goal is always to encourage and have meetings. I have Zoom meetings every week because I'm on a team that
Develops curriculum
Groups and Egypt and all over
Some of the states and
Yeah, so it's it's not defined all the time
Yeah, so for me the typical day is Charles goes to the office which is great because he does his work there
And I'm involved in a French church and the international church
And I'm involved in a French home group and a women's Bible study and we have a lot of hospitality
We have people into our home a lot
Which is a huge part of our ministry so that on those days my days are preparing and getting ready for meals and stuff
We love to have people in so well
I've had the pleasure of seeing both of you in action
Traveling abroad with you and stuff and seeing where you used to live and I tell you you're busy people
We kind of we kind of really are is it's very much of a relational ministry
I know you do some administrative stuff, but you're right you Charles you talk a lot
You know
Yeah, but I think it's certainly it's exciting to watch how you guys do ministry and how effective and fruitful it is
and just from my perspective what's fun is
Watching these two guys
There's a friendship that you can tell just how you're teasing each other and
And I'm sure if if something were to go sideways you would jump in to support one another
Which is encouraging
I think God has given us a lot of opportunities to be involved in the messy
We're involved in a lot of messy situations and we don't mind that it's tiring sometimes
But I think that God has given us giving us
Gifting in that area just to deal with the really sticky situations and as you get older you kind of get more of them
Because you hopefully have acquired some wisdom as you have green could you have more mess
You know that
Just we have a lot of
Tricky relationships like you know with people who have come from other religions
Sure that are following Jesus and just a lot of really
Strange problems. We deal with sometimes. So yeah, well keeping with the mess. Yeah, a little bit
You know a question that that Beth and I have is
Regarding the Middle East
You spent many decades in the Middle East
Where do you see where do you see the Lord working right now and I mean it's it's see from our perspective sounds like it's a powder cake
Yeah, yeah, and what's going on in our ran and elsewhere and things and so where do you see God moving in that in that area
That's a big area the way actually
You know this Craig, but I lived my father worked in Jerusalem George when I was a kid
And it's the age of seven. I lived in what's Ramallah went to an Arab school and we fled because of the war
So we actually experienced my father came back to california and we weren't like
Palsy refugee, but my father was very sympathetic and my mother still is
To that specific mess of what happened there
Which has not gone away. No, I've gone away and my whole my my parents tend to be politically involved and as a pastor though we we have
Been very involved because where we've lived has been a full of refugees always including in Europe. Yeah a lot of refugees
and on my
View and actually I'm here in Sacramento now. I I know a friend a neighbor who's a
A rabbi and just the other day. I was talking to him and he said we got to take out a ran
And I thought to myself. I thought to myself. That's not gonna solve anything
More anymore than taking out a rack, but you know, I didn't have time
Yeah, but I said shalom, you know
And we always have a nice talk
But but our hope is in Jesus. It always reminds me that that even if America goes a direction. We don't like
We know God can work through his church and again a lot of our
churches in them in the Middle East and even in France. They they're just small have to meet secretly
And that's just the reality for Christianity since
Christ
died on the cross just to publish a group of followers. Well, what is your your assessment of
The Middle East church right now? Is it thriving? Is it surviving?
There's two aspects one is that the Christian's traditional Christians and we live in a country where we had Christians that go back to the day of Pentecost
A lot of them are afraid because like after the Iraq war most all the Christians had to leave
because
Whatever America didn't bring security to Christians and the eventually
They fell very insecure and they left and all throughout the Middle East the Lebanese
Jordanians of Palestinians many are leaving. I have a good friend
In who you met Romney who and Jerusalem and he sent you know recently saying, you know
I raised my kids to speak Hebrew to be a part of Israel to be a part of Palestine
Because I'm not sure we have a future here as a PhD from
Hebrew University. So pray for him
There's so much racism on towards even Arabs
In Israel and they're 20% of Israel and pray for the church in Israel a messianic church
I have had some working involvement with them and every young Israeli
Has to serve in the army that means in Gaza there's 16 and 17 year old kids from churches
We've had to serve in what's going to be
Probably a Vietnam for them. Yeah, it'll be traumatized. It'll never end
So I pray we pray for both sides and realize the war of war is you know like we you know great Vietnam a war
Whatever it carries on. Yeah, what's happening with homeless people in Sacramento?
So we can just pray and and that the church would be there
Well, I'd love to know
Since you can open the door already is your assessment of
Of what's going on between Israel and Palestine
Because you have you have a definite take I read your dissertation you're written on that and
And what an interesting perspective having grown up there. Oh absolutely. Yeah, yeah
That general vicinity. Yeah, absolutely
And I mean say what you what you feel appropriate to say
We've got a wide audience. We can handle disagreement. Yeah, maybe
If there is disagreement, I just blame Beth. Yeah, so she's got
One thing I think
My heart looking at it is just the children that have seen things that children should never ever have to see
Yeah, and they said the physical damages are one thing but the psychological damage for this generation of children that even survive on both sides
Is just absolutely
Soldiers, I mean, it's just it's just you know and even doctors that have come out of Gaza
That are hardened doctors that have seen a lot. They're just devastated by what they're seeing
I mean, it's just so so horrible
Beverly's from Minnesota and I'll never forget a guy coming up who is very
Partial towards Israel and saying
To Bev whose side are you on in this thing the Arabs or the Jews and what did you say Bev?
Projesus
Such a good
Projesus across the board you know what we are so projes and you know what we see
God we worked with the refugees from
Saddam Hussein from one America to control of Iraq. We dealt with so many refugees
And we saw the horrors that they've been subjected to including from our own wars
And and we just know that that God works through these tragedies and that's the only go
So when you see a tragedy all of us and you're doing a good job to arcade
I just talked some Afghans across street fixing their car and they
But you just see these people have come out of something and the words brought them to be near me now that whether I'm in Europe or
Middle East what are the words I can have or what can we do and I'm so encouraged what arcades
been doing in
Christian center here
Amazing the sports ministries
So that's the solution is these little micro efforts. Yeah, it's not there is no political solution
It's getting worse
To be honest
They hate the racism on both sides
I had a glass somewhere in the Middle East I had a
A Arab taxi driver said you know what Israel is doing is worse than ISIS does
I found that interesting that comparison. Yeah, you know, one was an Islamic state one's a Jewish state
And then in their myopic, you know
Blindness they they're people just do this. Well, it's a classic one man's terrorists is not a man's freedom fighter
Right, you know, it just looks like you're looking. Yeah, yeah, and and we have and so my bad prayed for me was talking to him
When God just gave you some words to challenge him and and this whatever situation
But we don't want to be partisans and arcades not partisan
And we you want to just be messengers and people to God brings next story
So refreshing
Hey, man, so last time we were in the Middle East we were there in April for a week and we wrote taxis everywhere
And my role was to sit in the back of a seat and pray while Charles talked to these man
And share Jesus over and over and over and the interesting thing was um many were angry
They were so angry and so angry in America and Charles would work in round to say well, you have children
You know, um, do you like your children watch the news and watch, you know, you don't see our news
See all the dead bodies on TV and they're like well, yeah, and Charles said well, what is being a father supposed to be doing?
You supposed to be protecting your children
So are you protecting your children by letting them stand like watch TV?
You know, and then it didn't got around to a parenting issue instead of you know a political
And Jesus being the prince of peace. Yeah, that's quite a title for
And that this world needs
Living your enemy. No other religion has that right. My rabbi friend doesn't know about that
And the mom doesn't know that
So yeah, that's quite that's that's the message that only the Holy Spirit and Jesus can change our hearts
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but pray for guys like Rami though. He's really
You know
So Charles specific question for you, and then we have one for you
How is being a part of the church in the middle middle east changed your understanding
Of the gospel I could let Craig answer
He's heard my
Speel as we say in Yiddish
So you know, I came to the middle east
You know working I had had some childhood experience I knew some herbic
But I it took me two years to figure out that the church I was involved in was one tribe they were from one
Large extended family and
And I started to think through what that meant in the Bible because you know
We don't come from California many of us
We barely know where cousins, you know our neighbors are closer
But there in those societies they operate like in the time of Jesus where your cousins determine everything your family determines who you're going to marry
And they still operate very much like that and it really made me rethink the the gospel especially the church now
I see the church more as a tribe
connected by the blood of Jesus
Committed to reaching out to other tribes of foreigners who can become connected by the blood of Jesus and every time we take communion
We're proclaiming a big family wonderful family with Jesus as our chief
That's that's the main that's well that's just if you're dissertation as well, right basically the tribes the gospel of the tribes
You know is very interesting is really good. There's an interesting dissertation
Yeah
We went to the same school we were in the same murky world of
One thing good about Charles tripe thing I had to edit the whole thing. It was so much work. Oh, yes long time ago
But anyway, um, did you get your doctorate also? I have a putting heavy through for
I think it's really good too because like when we have groups come to
Country like in the Middle East and stuff we always talk about who is your tribe and Charles whole thing on tribe
It has made us think of our own family and our own tribe like we can be Christian workers going to another country to save the world
But what about our pagan relatives and you know Charles has got a lot
Minnesota were pretty nice
Minnesota
Minnesota Baptist mafia
But um, you know, it's just made us have more effort to think of our own family and care about their salvation where they are with the Lord too
So give an example even here
I grew up next to a big Mormon family and a neighbor of ours passed away
The last month and so I contacted them they live up north now. They they've all moved away
But I remember um, I have always had great opportunities one from that family
I prayed with to receive the Lord at one time and so I was thinking how can we get up and
Visit see that family because there's seven kids are father passed away
As a friend of my dad's and and how but but it works like that the gospel, you know
Through people we know and that's why thank god Craig. It's not reserved for pastors
Right to do the work or
You beth or Craig we actually you know, I know
Fellow archadians we all come from a tribe with unique opportunities every Sunday come together, but be encouraged
We each have a unique role role in that group of people maybe your neighbors
So that that's yeah a lot of money how it how it changed
My view of how we do ministry and it changed took me a while to see it applied back home here among my
relatives and such
Well, it's much easier to go talk to a stranger exactly then someone you have a relationship because you're risking the relationship
Absolutely, yeah more stressful. Yep. Thanks for reading mine
Tell us you have been involved as long as I think as long as I've known you
In trafficking, right on the on the good side
But and and I've seen that ministry as well, and you actually served a meal
Yeah, yeah, it was a privilege to do that and tell us a little bit about that are you still involved with yes
We're still very involved with that all right, and I was working in the Middle East for with that full-time for 10 years
And since we were invited to leave Jordan and invited to France
That ministry is continued
And Chandler to the woman who works with it is still doing it and they're still having a safe house where women who are
Getting away from abusive employers. They go to and they're still getting a meal every week
And they're hitting the gospel every week. They're having an hour of praise and worship. Are they primarily Filipino?
They're primary Filipinos. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Monkeys too
But the women come and they're at such a vulnerable time
At one point we had 500 women every week now. It's a lot less. It's less than a hundred right now
But they get a chance to
Rest have some food here the gospel get prayer and they're young
They're like 18 to maybe 40
They're in there anywhere from four months to a year a year and a half sometimes and they come just broken
They come literally with the clothes on their back. They're beaten. They're scared
They're not trusting anyone and they get a place in in the um
Embassy safe house to just rest and they're so open for the gospel
It's just a minimal because they've lost everything. I just have some questions. So
These are women who've probably been promised a great job
What what happens in their home country? They're promised oh go to the holy lands
It's where Jesus lived you can live in a past in a castle and work for a king this kind of thing
But it's really a bait and switch because the recruiters in their home country are corrupt and the people to receive them on this end
Our corrupt to an often like we had one woman and she was trying to escape and you know
She called the police and the police said where are you and she said I don't even know in the police
Okay, go outside and looked you see a market or anything by you often there
They don't even know where they are
So and a lot of them have children sometimes we have children in the safe house and those kids are so
Well adjusted because a hundred women are passing them around
They're the friendliest little kids you've ever seen. I mean, they're just great
But um
Yeah, so then when they leave the safe house
It goes through legal process and they have to be processed through the embassy and there's lawyers have worked with us
Human rights lawyers and trafficking lawyers and stuff and then they go back to their home country and we connect them with a pastor
To receive them and then follow their story
So I get messages every once in a while from women who have gone back to the Philippines and if their passports are taken in their salaries
Held we fight for them to get their salary
one time one of the embassies
A lady wanted a woman to keep working for and she said no because she hadn't paid her so the embassy
I didn't approve of live
But the embassy lied and said that this lady will come back and work for you if you give us her salary
So she got her salary and she was on the next plane out and she went back to the Philippines and she started a little tailoring business
And it's just I mean, it's wonderful. What happens to these women on the other hand especially because
A good majority of them find Jesus in the safe house and
A lot of them are from Catholic backgrounds, but other ones are from other religions
And to have the chance to share with them every week is just incredible less than when we were there in April
Charles shared with the whole group and and then we provide personal care products for them
They all get Christmas presents and this ministry also works with the prison ministry in Jordan to and all the prisoners in Jordan got Christmas presents this year too
And we raise funds for this
Well, it wouldn't
Dan Bryant and I were there
We served that one night and the thing that both of us
We're blown away by it was the joy of the women. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just
A breath of fresh air. I mean they were they were at peace. They were joyful that and they felt protected right
And it was just I mean total language barrier right, but it didn't matter
I mean because joy you would have gone crazy
They're just lovely lovely. We were they're just a sweetest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah very much so yeah
That's good. One time Charles sent to me. Oh, it's really good. You work with this
These women because you know, we have three boys and a girl and he said oh because you miss the boys and you miss our daughter
La Nia especially same as your guy. Yeah, and um, I said yeah, but she's just one one girl
This is 500 women and they're such a mess. I mean, it's just so yeah, so so many needs there
And we we aren't there, but there's quite a team and we try we're gonna try and get back
To that country and in April go ahead and spend some time
And it's amazing we have this is not a lone ranger thing. We facilitate a local ministry
Local Arabs and that affects the church when they see the people that are sometimes they're maids
Being coming to Jesus and things so and then in a majority non-Christian environment
We have these incredible testimonies and like the government's not going to interfere because they see something
Sometimes the person involved in the prison says that you know, they were helping the ministry is just helping
Christians and they said please can't you help us? It's technically illegal
Can you bring gifts the last Christmas?
It gives us some good donations. We were able to get gifts to
Almost all the prisoners in all the women in this and save us in Jordan
That's great. Yeah. Yeah, so it's really good
So we're something for the food we've been able to raise funds to keep the ministry going at full force
And pay you know chan because rent and her salary and provide food every week and now since COVID has switched a little bit
They're in a new location, but now we can't
Cook food and bring it to them, but now they're provided dry food so they cook for themselves all week
Which is great because they get better food. Yeah, I mean more food
And then they cook it the way they like it. Yeah, you know, it just gives them something to do all week cooking and stuff too
So yeah, but it's my favorite favorite ministry. I just love
What time is it bath?
You're getting better
Not bad
All right, well, it's your turn to see what's inside. So here you go
I'm a little nervous. I'm always nervous. Of course, when Ruth is in the room. It's probably not as bad
Yeah, she sets us up. Yeah, yeah
What
What character from the Bible do you relate to the most and why?
Oh wow
I really wish I could say Jesus
Me too
The person I can relate to the most you want to go for you know
Not JL
Just do you mean the guy that was a joke? Yeah, I mean of all okay, well time
I'm gonna say Peter because okay, I
I love Peter and I want to ring his neck and I feel like sometimes I want to ring my own neck because I do stupid things
But by the grace of God he has
Saved me from myself and through the power of the Holy Spirit
um
Made me into someone who wants to love and searches. Yeah
Well, that's good. Thank you
It's on ironic that you chose a man, right because I chose a woman. Oh
Which is I don't know why I need to talk about the side. There's probably something wrong with me
No
It's okay to aspire. I chose Mary the sister of Martha. Oh
Because in that episode the gospel of John she is
sitting at
Jesus feet and what I see what I see in that picture of her is
Nothing but curiosity. Who is this person? She knew him
But I feel like I have that same kind of curiosity. You do. Yeah, you want to know him better. I do
I just want to know him better and so it's sort of you chose it a dude
And I chose a woman cool. Yeah, it is. It's kind of cool. Well there you go grab back
Good grab back ruse
Okay, I'm off the script question. Okay. Yeah, go for it. Watch out
Hearing you guys talk and and I think you even referenced the the messiness of it
I can sense the the weight of the work you guys do. Yeah. How do you
Find rest? How do you stay refreshed? How do you find renewal in the midst
The weight and the messy and all of that
We come home to the states eventually too. Do things like this and see our grandkids and
We just pray together every morning pray together every night. We do a lot of praying
You know, I don't drive sometimes
I went to Jesuit high school. I don't want to sound Catholic
But I really you've been to Jerusalem
And you go to the stations of the cross
And I think as American Christians Evangelical some of the stations aren't biblical
But Jesus suffered and he died and he honored women which is so much even a part of the station across
So I actually I like to
personally
Go to I sometimes Catholic retreat centers. Yeah, go
The others one in the Bay Area
Well, they're designed for soul care. Yeah, and I don't want to as a Jesuit grad
I know this is controversial
But um, I think it's very important to
To remind ourselves that this is what we have we know Jesus in the midst of suffering
Has a power to deliver people
The to the other side of suffering to resurrection
So and I think that's something we've learned too is you know
Secular we've seen work with secular relief and development type workers. They tank often
Because now or burn out. Yeah, and and it's just
Because they don't have this
Picture that we look at every time you look at just no foundation for no
And and the suffering and we we sent the guy our organization to
Lesbos when a lot of refugees. Yeah, we're crossing little boats
And he this is a young man. He had some visa problems in Israel and came over and we've had some
We're provided some funds. We sent him. He spoke arabic arabic well
And uh, he he said Charles I spent all my time just ministering the aid workers so they were finding bodies on the shore
All the body was on the shore. They were cracking
No, but he was and there was nobody for that to help them but he prayed with all of them. Yeah, let a bunch of work
I mean mine just can't handle all that
Jesus
Yeah, and I think you hear to you know, you look in the Middle East situation just and we just have to know out of this mess
The Christ will be proclaimed and again our job is to to make sure Christ is proclaimed in at least times and
And I you know look around we were in church Sunday. There was someone
Near us that we ended up praying for and are that prayer time who was
Probably facing some serious immigration challenges
And we could pray for them. So I mean this is the last Sunday last Sunday was so great. Yeah, okay
Okay, so turn around and pray for somebody in this couple
Yeah, we don't need to see much, but they were clinging to each other and when we prayed for him
Cheers just totally
We go all around us
You know, there's lots of and I think I think to us having lived our whole adult life in a foreign country and having to stay legal and all that
There's a real stress if you're not legal. Yeah, and for people in America who are not legal
That's an incredible amount of stress. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah
Yeah, yeah, it's just the way that that's being dealt with
Right is is not pro Jesus right to you right? Yeah, yeah at every country
You know has its rules and we've been subject to them and but we are Americans
Which has been as a privilege yeah, even when we've had trouble with different governments
We know that if without American pastoral we're like Paul. We have a privilege. Yeah, it's right in much the world
Not everywhere
What do you see as
Obstacles or challenges that you're facing currently in ministries that you're involved with
You know, we're in Europe now
Yeah, it's a whole new set of challenges
Often when people come to Jesus they don't have quite the financial challenges
Especially women
Sometimes they end up divorced and stuff
Preferably they all work
In Europe they're often there's a better social welfare system
But yeah, marriages are really challenged so we can pray
Um
Large portion of the people we work with have come from the background
They're divorced women are around yeah, and and actually the last time we were in Jordan to the Jordan pass
We work closely with Charles. It's really a struggle. We're just seeing more more divorces
And um, and of course, yeah, pray for us who card our marriages
But that that's a real struggle
And I it's kind of our western values are even affecting Islam in some parts of the most world
It wasn't that common to have to or even though technically they can do it financially they couldn't right
I think a lot of like our people who have found Christ from a majority
Middle Eastern religion
They have so many problems and so many family problems and just layer upon layer upon layer of mess
You know, so
And one can I share a good news actually my tribe stuff
In the last month we've gotten it into this curriculum that's all online
Which is really to help the local communities which often don't have a church building
To to look at
The issues and learn the Bible and learn how this fits with their own tribal
It's like a new believers or a prebeliever
It's for people from majority backgrounds in the Middle East who find Jesus who want to lead churches. Okay. Oh wow
Very specific. Yeah, very specific. It goes from basic all the way through the trousers worked with
His latest one was on tribes. Would he work heavily with the one on persecution?
So yeah, yeah, and it's it's a discipleship system. It's been going on for probably 50 years
And his tribes was just yeah, if you want some really good news this uh, and it's
You know, nor there in Africa was a hundred percent Muslim
Now there's a movement in Algeria and I think I can say it's publicly. It's well known of over two
200,000 people have come to Jesus wow actually curriculum
We work with originally started as a response to radio broadcast. Yeah, that old Christian workers
Had gotten everything into their language, which is an Arabic it was another language and a lot of the believers
We see in Europe are from that background and they they've really embraced the gospel
Been discipled in small groups
During COVID the government banned all their church meanings from having buildings because they'd started to build buildings for all these
The villages where they live
So the good news is God's got these groups out there that are taking
He's always had stuff. Yeah, yeah without the building without
And he's building him and so we've we have a commit curriculum that's actually expanded vassay work with a team
There's 12 on the team 12 and we do zoom
Not zoom now just the other one
We're always connecting and and refining the curriculum and it's actually got a whole
Program for illiterate people
It's called a rality would focus on women
Memorizing Bible stories in a discipleship curriculum. Yeah, wow, but it's in it's in six or seven languages now in the one that's
Donald of the most right now is in spanish interesting believe it or not. Yeah, it wasn't supposed to be that way. Yeah, good
Well, it's interesting because it's about a year ago you and I were involved with a ministry in Mexico
That has a ministry in Egypt. Okay, and we taught yeah some Bible classes
That were translated into Spanish then into Egyptian
Or in Arabic to Somali
It is it's just you know
Thank you God for technology and how's being used. Yeah, it's something it's the same thing is happening
The world is big and yeah, and the internet is great because it's out there
And we hear of it being used ways it was never intended to be used
And that's actually what happened in Mexico because the friend of ours actually
Mexican
Worker
And we needed a translator we connected
The program with her she started translating she said this stuff works great. I'm working
Cycling a cousin to the other side of Mexico using the curriculum
And then whatever I don't know what she did, but now it's the most downloaded country
You can see what country download stuff
Mexico Yemen all the hardest place. There's no internet in Gaza, but I can guarantee they're getting it
Yeah, because we're what where the world falls apart. There's a hunger. Yeah
And the gospel thrives off and amazing. Yeah
So how can we support you and how can we be praying for you?
Well, we just love arcade. It's just a fabulous church and you guys are great. So thank you
Thank you. Thank you. Come back and we had Tom and Shana visit us in France and that was super fun
And we love and you guys and visit us overseas too. So that's encouraging
Just keep praying for us pray for us to have more and more opportunities to share the gospel
Charles the street evangelism and be be a great church like you are our grandkids will be missionaries something
There you go. Hey, that's great because you're faithfulist. She gets in first. There you go
I think you're working with kids. It's just it's just so worth it to serve Jesus
It is and I mean if I had to do my whole life over again
I do it exactly the same way. It's so much fun. That's beautiful
So I mean, it's I think we need to hear that. That's a little kids need to know that it's so worth it
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, I tell if I have a chance to speak to teens. I want to that's what I want to tell them. Yeah
Following Jesus is yeah, it's hard, but it's worth it
Sometimes we feel like you know, I remember when our daughter came back to America. She's like mom
I'm gonna be so bored in America. I'm like honey. I was raised in America. It's okay
But I think their life in being raised in the Middle East is kind of been a technicolour and then you know
You come back to America. She feels it's just kind of a little slow
Yeah, so but I think that's one thing we've experienced is um
Just the Lord's faithfulness to our family and our kids and you know living this crazy life has been
Very interestingly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and our Kate has always been
Say I as an old arcade or before you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and faithful at following God's direction as a church
You know, I looked at our service Sunday. That's not done in average mega church. You just pray for each other
But that's something an ethos that God created through you former pastors
And that we want to pray and so keep keep you know, we need to keep following Jesus in it and
sensitive to him and not some
Megaturch format as you know
Yeah, we're gonna have allergic to make a church
Need to be that. Yeah, hey before we pray. I was gonna say oh you want to do be holding them pray. Yeah, all right, yeah
Um
As as I don't know if we talk to you about it, but it's behold podcast and the reason why we call it behold is simply because
we want to end each podcast
Episode with beholden Christ and a beat of Christ and so we're kind of talking with Charles before you got here and
We we talked about a couple of times. In fact, you did about the messiness of ministry and how it's just
Sometimes all you see is the mess and things and one of the places that that
Charles
Recommended we go to is is acts 14 and I won't read the whole thing, but it's you know, Paul and Barnett are an iconium
And it does not go well. I mean they're getting beaten with rods
There's all kinds of misunderstanding the then religious authorities are trying to conspire to
Kick Paul and Barnett us out and then later on Paul and Barnett are accused of being gods
You know, and it's just it is just a mess and
I mean Beth, I mean that's ministry
I mean, it's ministry
Where you're at and if it's in Europe or if it's in the Middle East it's it's messy and Sacramento and yet
What you said earlier on in the podcast show is
Pro Jesus
Jesus is the only answer to clean up the messes that we create
And you guys are living breathing testimonies at your testimony to begin with but then also
I think that I'd like to think and I think it's true that
When you get to heaven
There's gonna be people that you never met here
That are there because of
How faithful you to have been over the decades to be pro Jesus
When you could have gone you could have gone veered off to political aspirations
You could have veered off for doctrinal aspirations
But you chose to stay the course and be close to Jesus and I think that
That's what we try to model here of course for all of us all of us want to sing. Yeah, so we just really appreciate
Everything you guys too. Well, it's it's been a lot of fun
Yeah
Debbie's everywhere. It's an honor and people call me Debbie
Oh
I try to be Debbie as many ways as possible
But I just know it is it is always an honor when
Our partners around the world are here
And then to get a chance to sit down and chat with you guys any and hear your hearts and see your passion for Jesus and for the people that
He's really interested to hear
It's it's inspiring to me now, but also in thinking about eight-year-old Matthew thought she was gonna be a missionary
Well, I was gonna say this is this is very personal for you. Yeah, every time we have
someone a partner in ministry here
Is you really I mean it are just so edified and so motivated to continue in ministry because you you do have that partnership heart
that
We all need to have I just I want to I
Okay, how else can I dance the gospel? Yeah, through the people interested to my care teaching children is so important
I yes, I agree
I can't I'm not gonna be like no
Yeah, let's get a heart for Jesus from my age because I was involved up in Minnesota and girls missionary guild
You know, I was the overachiever with my sister. We had all the verses done up to age 15 at age like town
Yes, you know, so but I just think back to all those people in my life that encouraged me
Well, and I can tell you your grandkids are in safe hands in the children's ministry here
I mean because the dogs that goes out aggressively. Yeah, every time you're with them. Yeah, so yeah
Yeah, we don't look thank you for taking care of our grandkids. Well, we're on the other side of the world. It's an honor
It's an honor. What should we do for them? Yeah, yeah, okay
Oh, Lord Jesus our good and faithful savior
Here in Sacramento and around the world
What a joy it is to hear how you have equipped Charles and Beverly to serve you and to honor you with their whole entire lives
Thank you for
The fruit that they get to see from their work. I know a lot of people don't get to see fruit, but um
Hearing about
people in taxis and
traffic to women being drawn out of
Terrible situations and and then hearing your gospel
What a powerful thing that is and
And Charles and Beverly might roll their eyes that well, we're just doing what
What we're called to do and yes, they are just doing what they're called to do
But wow, thank you for giving them the courage to say yes and to keep
Putting one foot in front of the other and to cry out to you morning and night and and to know that
Being pro Jesus is what you've called them to do so Lord would you protect them would you
Give them a sweet joy in their marriage would you give them more and abundant fruit through the ministry and the work of their hands give them strength
Give them peace and allow them to be a presence of your peace as well
Father
What a gift that you have given the behold podcast family
um
I thank you so much for the friendship the faithful friendship of Charles and Bev and
What they have meant to so many here, but then also to us and so we thank you for them and Lord
We are asking in Jesus name by the powder spirit
That every conversation they have is a kingdom seed planted that will
That will germinate and grow and
We're not we're not asking you to do it in front of us, but if you do that be great
I do ask that you encourage
Charles and Bev with fruitful ministry with their teams both in the Middle East and in Europe
I pray Lord God that you preserve their marriage and make it ever stronger as the years go by
Father while there you are away
I pray that you keep their children their grandchildren safe in that their children can grow
to be
Men and women of robust faith in Jesus in Jesus one
Father we
You've you've planted us in this messy world you've planted Charles and Beverly in
messy places in the world
And you've called them to bring a story that brings order and humility and beauty
So I pray Lord God that that story be heard over and over again of King Jesus who has died and has risen and has promised return
Would you please cause that message or resonate
Across cultures both far and here in Jesus name amen
Thank you guys
You
