S7E3: Caring is Messy - When Loving People Gets Complicated | Charles & Beverly

Welcome to the old. I'm Beth and I'm Craig and we have a different set today because we are honored to have some special

They are incredible people. You're gonna love them. We just spent time chatting with Charles and Beverly

They are partners with us in the Middle East and in Europe doing discipleship training and and serving traffic

Women and on I mean, yeah, let's just too long to say everything. It is it is and Charles was telling us he

Started at arcade when he first became a believer and they sent him to Mexico on a mission strip

And he just kind of hasn't stalks. Yeah, and they they they have not stopped and it's a great lesson to us all you are gonna

Love this show and the kids should listen. Oh, absolutely. Yeah kids gather around watch your listen together. It is a great

Chat with it is it is are you ready? I'm ready. Are you ready? Which way are you going that way?

Oh, you're going that way. Oh, good. Here we go. Here we go

Well, hey guys. Thank you for joining us. It is so great to have you with us

Charles and Beverly are with us and

Beverly your plant hurt a little bit because you got your eyes dilated. Yeah, so I'm wearing sunglasses. You're not being mysterious

No, I'm just too cool. Yeah, you're way too cool. You're way too cool. It's so good to have you with us

Yeah, Charles and Beverly are partners with us

serving in the Middle East and Europe and we're being vague on purpose. Yes

The work you do is

Sort of undercover with that being accurate sort of

Sincere senses

Yeah, that's a better one. I wonder what the world wide web you got to be you got to be careful

Don't scare the fish thing and evangelism. Yeah

And the beautiful thing about you too is that you are our longest standing partners

It you've been partners with arcade church for 35 36 years. Yeah, about that. Yeah, I came to know Jesus in

1977 and they sent me to Mexico. I was like two years old

Seventy-year-old so I can actually say you've been behind me since I was a brand-new christmas. That is so

That's obviously like

As the leader of family ministries, I'm watching kids grow up and then get launched into things like

Ministry and and serving around the world. It's just so cool to

Look back kind of on this side of things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah knowing that your grandkids are are part of our church exactly

Yeah, which is really great. That's very cool very cool

So we want we just want to

Introduce you to the behold podcast listeners. Let them know a little bit about the work you guys are doing

um

Just kind of hear what what life is like for you and then how we can support any of our Jews. That's so good

That's great. So this is probably the hardest question you're gonna get asked because I'm sure every day looks different

But what is a typical day in the life for the two of you?

So I knew this was a hard question

So I actually talked to a member of my organizational board this morning who hung out with me a long time

Yeah in the middle east and he said

Basically, I spent a lot of time talking to people and encouraging them hopefully talking to God first

Yeah, connect and I think as I get older I need more that time and

We're looking through just staying close to Jesus being open to what he wants us to do each day

But communicating we have a small organization and I always feel like I'm

leader of it, but we kind of pastor at

Our members I talked to them

Monthly and of course and depending on where we are in the Middle Eastern Europe

We're working very much time zone

So often here we're up early talking to somebody in Europe or millies and there we're

You know our days and usually seven or eight

least because stuff happening in America is nine hour time difference

So and yeah, our goal is always to encourage and have meetings. I have Zoom meetings every week because I'm on a team that

Develops curriculum

Groups and Egypt and all over

Some of the states and

Yeah, so it's it's not defined all the time

Yeah, so for me the typical day is Charles goes to the office which is great because he does his work there

And I'm involved in a French church and the international church

And I'm involved in a French home group and a women's Bible study and we have a lot of hospitality

We have people into our home a lot

Which is a huge part of our ministry so that on those days my days are preparing and getting ready for meals and stuff

We love to have people in so well

I've had the pleasure of seeing both of you in action

Traveling abroad with you and stuff and seeing where you used to live and I tell you you're busy people

We kind of we kind of really are is it's very much of a relational ministry

I know you do some administrative stuff, but you're right you Charles you talk a lot

You know

Yeah, but I think it's certainly it's exciting to watch how you guys do ministry and how effective and fruitful it is

and just from my perspective what's fun is

Watching these two guys

There's a friendship that you can tell just how you're teasing each other and

And I'm sure if if something were to go sideways you would jump in to support one another

Which is encouraging

I think God has given us a lot of opportunities to be involved in the messy

We're involved in a lot of messy situations and we don't mind that it's tiring sometimes

But I think that God has given us giving us

Gifting in that area just to deal with the really sticky situations and as you get older you kind of get more of them

Because you hopefully have acquired some wisdom as you have green could you have more mess

You know that

Just we have a lot of

Tricky relationships like you know with people who have come from other religions

Sure that are following Jesus and just a lot of really

Strange problems. We deal with sometimes. So yeah, well keeping with the mess. Yeah, a little bit

You know a question that that Beth and I have is

Regarding the Middle East

You spent many decades in the Middle East

Where do you see where do you see the Lord working right now and I mean it's it's see from our perspective sounds like it's a powder cake

Yeah, yeah, and what's going on in our ran and elsewhere and things and so where do you see God moving in that in that area

That's a big area the way actually

You know this Craig, but I lived my father worked in Jerusalem George when I was a kid

And it's the age of seven. I lived in what's Ramallah went to an Arab school and we fled because of the war

So we actually experienced my father came back to california and we weren't like

Palsy refugee, but my father was very sympathetic and my mother still is

To that specific mess of what happened there

Which has not gone away. No, I've gone away and my whole my my parents tend to be politically involved and as a pastor though we we have

Been very involved because where we've lived has been a full of refugees always including in Europe. Yeah a lot of refugees

and on my

View and actually I'm here in Sacramento now. I I know a friend a neighbor who's a

A rabbi and just the other day. I was talking to him and he said we got to take out a ran

And I thought to myself. I thought to myself. That's not gonna solve anything

More anymore than taking out a rack, but you know, I didn't have time

Yeah, but I said shalom, you know

And we always have a nice talk

But but our hope is in Jesus. It always reminds me that that even if America goes a direction. We don't like

We know God can work through his church and again a lot of our

churches in them in the Middle East and even in France. They they're just small have to meet secretly

And that's just the reality for Christianity since

Christ

died on the cross just to publish a group of followers. Well, what is your your assessment of

The Middle East church right now? Is it thriving? Is it surviving?

There's two aspects one is that the Christian's traditional Christians and we live in a country where we had Christians that go back to the day of Pentecost

A lot of them are afraid because like after the Iraq war most all the Christians had to leave

because

Whatever America didn't bring security to Christians and the eventually

They fell very insecure and they left and all throughout the Middle East the Lebanese

Jordanians of Palestinians many are leaving. I have a good friend

In who you met Romney who and Jerusalem and he sent you know recently saying, you know

I raised my kids to speak Hebrew to be a part of Israel to be a part of Palestine

Because I'm not sure we have a future here as a PhD from

Hebrew University. So pray for him

There's so much racism on towards even Arabs

In Israel and they're 20% of Israel and pray for the church in Israel a messianic church

I have had some working involvement with them and every young Israeli

Has to serve in the army that means in Gaza there's 16 and 17 year old kids from churches

We've had to serve in what's going to be

Probably a Vietnam for them. Yeah, it'll be traumatized. It'll never end

So I pray we pray for both sides and realize the war of war is you know like we you know great Vietnam a war

Whatever it carries on. Yeah, what's happening with homeless people in Sacramento?

So we can just pray and and that the church would be there

Well, I'd love to know

Since you can open the door already is your assessment of

Of what's going on between Israel and Palestine

Because you have you have a definite take I read your dissertation you're written on that and

And what an interesting perspective having grown up there. Oh absolutely. Yeah, yeah

That general vicinity. Yeah, absolutely

And I mean say what you what you feel appropriate to say

We've got a wide audience. We can handle disagreement. Yeah, maybe

If there is disagreement, I just blame Beth. Yeah, so she's got

One thing I think

My heart looking at it is just the children that have seen things that children should never ever have to see

Yeah, and they said the physical damages are one thing but the psychological damage for this generation of children that even survive on both sides

Is just absolutely

Soldiers, I mean, it's just it's just you know and even doctors that have come out of Gaza

That are hardened doctors that have seen a lot. They're just devastated by what they're seeing

I mean, it's just so so horrible

Beverly's from Minnesota and I'll never forget a guy coming up who is very

Partial towards Israel and saying

To Bev whose side are you on in this thing the Arabs or the Jews and what did you say Bev?

Projesus

Such a good

Projesus across the board you know what we are so projes and you know what we see

God we worked with the refugees from

Saddam Hussein from one America to control of Iraq. We dealt with so many refugees

And we saw the horrors that they've been subjected to including from our own wars

And and we just know that that God works through these tragedies and that's the only go

So when you see a tragedy all of us and you're doing a good job to arcade

I just talked some Afghans across street fixing their car and they

But you just see these people have come out of something and the words brought them to be near me now that whether I'm in Europe or

Middle East what are the words I can have or what can we do and I'm so encouraged what arcades

been doing in

Christian center here

Amazing the sports ministries

So that's the solution is these little micro efforts. Yeah, it's not there is no political solution

It's getting worse

To be honest

They hate the racism on both sides

I had a glass somewhere in the Middle East I had a

A Arab taxi driver said you know what Israel is doing is worse than ISIS does

I found that interesting that comparison. Yeah, you know, one was an Islamic state one's a Jewish state

And then in their myopic, you know

Blindness they they're people just do this. Well, it's a classic one man's terrorists is not a man's freedom fighter

Right, you know, it just looks like you're looking. Yeah, yeah, and and we have and so my bad prayed for me was talking to him

When God just gave you some words to challenge him and and this whatever situation

But we don't want to be partisans and arcades not partisan

And we you want to just be messengers and people to God brings next story

So refreshing

Hey, man, so last time we were in the Middle East we were there in April for a week and we wrote taxis everywhere

And my role was to sit in the back of a seat and pray while Charles talked to these man

And share Jesus over and over and over and the interesting thing was um many were angry

They were so angry and so angry in America and Charles would work in round to say well, you have children

You know, um, do you like your children watch the news and watch, you know, you don't see our news

See all the dead bodies on TV and they're like well, yeah, and Charles said well, what is being a father supposed to be doing?

You supposed to be protecting your children

So are you protecting your children by letting them stand like watch TV?

You know, and then it didn't got around to a parenting issue instead of you know a political

And Jesus being the prince of peace. Yeah, that's quite a title for

And that this world needs

Living your enemy. No other religion has that right. My rabbi friend doesn't know about that

And the mom doesn't know that

So yeah, that's quite that's that's the message that only the Holy Spirit and Jesus can change our hearts

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but pray for guys like Rami though. He's really

You know

So Charles specific question for you, and then we have one for you

How is being a part of the church in the middle middle east changed your understanding

Of the gospel I could let Craig answer

He's heard my

Speel as we say in Yiddish

So you know, I came to the middle east

You know working I had had some childhood experience I knew some herbic

But I it took me two years to figure out that the church I was involved in was one tribe they were from one

Large extended family and

And I started to think through what that meant in the Bible because you know

We don't come from California many of us

We barely know where cousins, you know our neighbors are closer

But there in those societies they operate like in the time of Jesus where your cousins determine everything your family determines who you're going to marry

And they still operate very much like that and it really made me rethink the the gospel especially the church now

I see the church more as a tribe

connected by the blood of Jesus

Committed to reaching out to other tribes of foreigners who can become connected by the blood of Jesus and every time we take communion

We're proclaiming a big family wonderful family with Jesus as our chief

That's that's the main that's well that's just if you're dissertation as well, right basically the tribes the gospel of the tribes

You know is very interesting is really good. There's an interesting dissertation

Yeah

We went to the same school we were in the same murky world of

One thing good about Charles tripe thing I had to edit the whole thing. It was so much work. Oh, yes long time ago

But anyway, um, did you get your doctorate also? I have a putting heavy through for

I think it's really good too because like when we have groups come to

Country like in the Middle East and stuff we always talk about who is your tribe and Charles whole thing on tribe

It has made us think of our own family and our own tribe like we can be Christian workers going to another country to save the world

But what about our pagan relatives and you know Charles has got a lot

Minnesota were pretty nice

Minnesota

Minnesota Baptist mafia

But um, you know, it's just made us have more effort to think of our own family and care about their salvation where they are with the Lord too

So give an example even here

I grew up next to a big Mormon family and a neighbor of ours passed away

The last month and so I contacted them they live up north now. They they've all moved away

But I remember um, I have always had great opportunities one from that family

I prayed with to receive the Lord at one time and so I was thinking how can we get up and

Visit see that family because there's seven kids are father passed away

As a friend of my dad's and and how but but it works like that the gospel, you know

Through people we know and that's why thank god Craig. It's not reserved for pastors

Right to do the work or

You beth or Craig we actually you know, I know

Fellow archadians we all come from a tribe with unique opportunities every Sunday come together, but be encouraged

We each have a unique role role in that group of people maybe your neighbors

So that that's yeah a lot of money how it how it changed

My view of how we do ministry and it changed took me a while to see it applied back home here among my

relatives and such

Well, it's much easier to go talk to a stranger exactly then someone you have a relationship because you're risking the relationship

Absolutely, yeah more stressful. Yep. Thanks for reading mine

Tell us you have been involved as long as I think as long as I've known you

In trafficking, right on the on the good side

But and and I've seen that ministry as well, and you actually served a meal

Yeah, yeah, it was a privilege to do that and tell us a little bit about that are you still involved with yes

We're still very involved with that all right, and I was working in the Middle East for with that full-time for 10 years

And since we were invited to leave Jordan and invited to France

That ministry is continued

And Chandler to the woman who works with it is still doing it and they're still having a safe house where women who are

Getting away from abusive employers. They go to and they're still getting a meal every week

And they're hitting the gospel every week. They're having an hour of praise and worship. Are they primarily Filipino?

They're primary Filipinos. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Monkeys too

But the women come and they're at such a vulnerable time

At one point we had 500 women every week now. It's a lot less. It's less than a hundred right now

But they get a chance to

Rest have some food here the gospel get prayer and they're young

They're like 18 to maybe 40

They're in there anywhere from four months to a year a year and a half sometimes and they come just broken

They come literally with the clothes on their back. They're beaten. They're scared

They're not trusting anyone and they get a place in in the um

Embassy safe house to just rest and they're so open for the gospel

It's just a minimal because they've lost everything. I just have some questions. So

These are women who've probably been promised a great job

What what happens in their home country? They're promised oh go to the holy lands

It's where Jesus lived you can live in a past in a castle and work for a king this kind of thing

But it's really a bait and switch because the recruiters in their home country are corrupt and the people to receive them on this end

Our corrupt to an often like we had one woman and she was trying to escape and you know

She called the police and the police said where are you and she said I don't even know in the police

Okay, go outside and looked you see a market or anything by you often there

They don't even know where they are

So and a lot of them have children sometimes we have children in the safe house and those kids are so

Well adjusted because a hundred women are passing them around

They're the friendliest little kids you've ever seen. I mean, they're just great

But um

Yeah, so then when they leave the safe house

It goes through legal process and they have to be processed through the embassy and there's lawyers have worked with us

Human rights lawyers and trafficking lawyers and stuff and then they go back to their home country and we connect them with a pastor

To receive them and then follow their story

So I get messages every once in a while from women who have gone back to the Philippines and if their passports are taken in their salaries

Held we fight for them to get their salary

one time one of the embassies

A lady wanted a woman to keep working for and she said no because she hadn't paid her so the embassy

I didn't approve of live

But the embassy lied and said that this lady will come back and work for you if you give us her salary

So she got her salary and she was on the next plane out and she went back to the Philippines and she started a little tailoring business

And it's just I mean, it's wonderful. What happens to these women on the other hand especially because

A good majority of them find Jesus in the safe house and

A lot of them are from Catholic backgrounds, but other ones are from other religions

And to have the chance to share with them every week is just incredible less than when we were there in April

Charles shared with the whole group and and then we provide personal care products for them

They all get Christmas presents and this ministry also works with the prison ministry in Jordan to and all the prisoners in Jordan got Christmas presents this year too

And we raise funds for this

Well, it wouldn't

Dan Bryant and I were there

We served that one night and the thing that both of us

We're blown away by it was the joy of the women. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just

A breath of fresh air. I mean they were they were at peace. They were joyful that and they felt protected right

And it was just I mean total language barrier right, but it didn't matter

I mean because joy you would have gone crazy

They're just lovely lovely. We were they're just a sweetest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah very much so yeah

That's good. One time Charles sent to me. Oh, it's really good. You work with this

These women because you know, we have three boys and a girl and he said oh because you miss the boys and you miss our daughter

La Nia especially same as your guy. Yeah, and um, I said yeah, but she's just one one girl

This is 500 women and they're such a mess. I mean, it's just so yeah, so so many needs there

And we we aren't there, but there's quite a team and we try we're gonna try and get back

To that country and in April go ahead and spend some time

And it's amazing we have this is not a lone ranger thing. We facilitate a local ministry

Local Arabs and that affects the church when they see the people that are sometimes they're maids

Being coming to Jesus and things so and then in a majority non-Christian environment

We have these incredible testimonies and like the government's not going to interfere because they see something

Sometimes the person involved in the prison says that you know, they were helping the ministry is just helping

Christians and they said please can't you help us? It's technically illegal

Can you bring gifts the last Christmas?

It gives us some good donations. We were able to get gifts to

Almost all the prisoners in all the women in this and save us in Jordan

That's great. Yeah. Yeah, so it's really good

So we're something for the food we've been able to raise funds to keep the ministry going at full force

And pay you know chan because rent and her salary and provide food every week and now since COVID has switched a little bit

They're in a new location, but now we can't

Cook food and bring it to them, but now they're provided dry food so they cook for themselves all week

Which is great because they get better food. Yeah, I mean more food

And then they cook it the way they like it. Yeah, you know, it just gives them something to do all week cooking and stuff too

So yeah, but it's my favorite favorite ministry. I just love

What time is it bath?

You're getting better

Not bad

All right, well, it's your turn to see what's inside. So here you go

I'm a little nervous. I'm always nervous. Of course, when Ruth is in the room. It's probably not as bad

Yeah, she sets us up. Yeah, yeah

What

What character from the Bible do you relate to the most and why?

Oh wow

I really wish I could say Jesus

Me too

The person I can relate to the most you want to go for you know

Not JL

Just do you mean the guy that was a joke? Yeah, I mean of all okay, well time

I'm gonna say Peter because okay, I

I love Peter and I want to ring his neck and I feel like sometimes I want to ring my own neck because I do stupid things

But by the grace of God he has

Saved me from myself and through the power of the Holy Spirit

um

Made me into someone who wants to love and searches. Yeah

Well, that's good. Thank you

It's on ironic that you chose a man, right because I chose a woman. Oh

Which is I don't know why I need to talk about the side. There's probably something wrong with me

No

It's okay to aspire. I chose Mary the sister of Martha. Oh

Because in that episode the gospel of John she is

sitting at

Jesus feet and what I see what I see in that picture of her is

Nothing but curiosity. Who is this person? She knew him

But I feel like I have that same kind of curiosity. You do. Yeah, you want to know him better. I do

I just want to know him better and so it's sort of you chose it a dude

And I chose a woman cool. Yeah, it is. It's kind of cool. Well there you go grab back

Good grab back ruse

Okay, I'm off the script question. Okay. Yeah, go for it. Watch out

Hearing you guys talk and and I think you even referenced the the messiness of it

I can sense the the weight of the work you guys do. Yeah. How do you

Find rest? How do you stay refreshed? How do you find renewal in the midst

The weight and the messy and all of that

We come home to the states eventually too. Do things like this and see our grandkids and

We just pray together every morning pray together every night. We do a lot of praying

You know, I don't drive sometimes

I went to Jesuit high school. I don't want to sound Catholic

But I really you've been to Jerusalem

And you go to the stations of the cross

And I think as American Christians Evangelical some of the stations aren't biblical

But Jesus suffered and he died and he honored women which is so much even a part of the station across

So I actually I like to

personally

Go to I sometimes Catholic retreat centers. Yeah, go

The others one in the Bay Area

Well, they're designed for soul care. Yeah, and I don't want to as a Jesuit grad

I know this is controversial

But um, I think it's very important to

To remind ourselves that this is what we have we know Jesus in the midst of suffering

Has a power to deliver people

The to the other side of suffering to resurrection

So and I think that's something we've learned too is you know

Secular we've seen work with secular relief and development type workers. They tank often

Because now or burn out. Yeah, and and it's just

Because they don't have this

Picture that we look at every time you look at just no foundation for no

And and the suffering and we we sent the guy our organization to

Lesbos when a lot of refugees. Yeah, we're crossing little boats

And he this is a young man. He had some visa problems in Israel and came over and we've had some

We're provided some funds. We sent him. He spoke arabic arabic well

And uh, he he said Charles I spent all my time just ministering the aid workers so they were finding bodies on the shore

All the body was on the shore. They were cracking

No, but he was and there was nobody for that to help them but he prayed with all of them. Yeah, let a bunch of work

I mean mine just can't handle all that

Jesus

Yeah, and I think you hear to you know, you look in the Middle East situation just and we just have to know out of this mess

The Christ will be proclaimed and again our job is to to make sure Christ is proclaimed in at least times and

And I you know look around we were in church Sunday. There was someone

Near us that we ended up praying for and are that prayer time who was

Probably facing some serious immigration challenges

And we could pray for them. So I mean this is the last Sunday last Sunday was so great. Yeah, okay

Okay, so turn around and pray for somebody in this couple

Yeah, we don't need to see much, but they were clinging to each other and when we prayed for him

Cheers just totally

We go all around us

You know, there's lots of and I think I think to us having lived our whole adult life in a foreign country and having to stay legal and all that

There's a real stress if you're not legal. Yeah, and for people in America who are not legal

That's an incredible amount of stress. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, yeah

Yeah, yeah, it's just the way that that's being dealt with

Right is is not pro Jesus right to you right? Yeah, yeah at every country

You know has its rules and we've been subject to them and but we are Americans

Which has been as a privilege yeah, even when we've had trouble with different governments

We know that if without American pastoral we're like Paul. We have a privilege. Yeah, it's right in much the world

Not everywhere

What do you see as

Obstacles or challenges that you're facing currently in ministries that you're involved with

You know, we're in Europe now

Yeah, it's a whole new set of challenges

Often when people come to Jesus they don't have quite the financial challenges

Especially women

Sometimes they end up divorced and stuff

Preferably they all work

In Europe they're often there's a better social welfare system

But yeah, marriages are really challenged so we can pray

Um

Large portion of the people we work with have come from the background

They're divorced women are around yeah, and and actually the last time we were in Jordan to the Jordan pass

We work closely with Charles. It's really a struggle. We're just seeing more more divorces

And um, and of course, yeah, pray for us who card our marriages

But that that's a real struggle

And I it's kind of our western values are even affecting Islam in some parts of the most world

It wasn't that common to have to or even though technically they can do it financially they couldn't right

I think a lot of like our people who have found Christ from a majority

Middle Eastern religion

They have so many problems and so many family problems and just layer upon layer upon layer of mess

You know, so

And one can I share a good news actually my tribe stuff

In the last month we've gotten it into this curriculum that's all online

Which is really to help the local communities which often don't have a church building

To to look at

The issues and learn the Bible and learn how this fits with their own tribal

It's like a new believers or a prebeliever

It's for people from majority backgrounds in the Middle East who find Jesus who want to lead churches. Okay. Oh wow

Very specific. Yeah, very specific. It goes from basic all the way through the trousers worked with

His latest one was on tribes. Would he work heavily with the one on persecution?

So yeah, yeah, and it's it's a discipleship system. It's been going on for probably 50 years

And his tribes was just yeah, if you want some really good news this uh, and it's

You know, nor there in Africa was a hundred percent Muslim

Now there's a movement in Algeria and I think I can say it's publicly. It's well known of over two

200,000 people have come to Jesus wow actually curriculum

We work with originally started as a response to radio broadcast. Yeah, that old Christian workers

Had gotten everything into their language, which is an Arabic it was another language and a lot of the believers

We see in Europe are from that background and they they've really embraced the gospel

Been discipled in small groups

During COVID the government banned all their church meanings from having buildings because they'd started to build buildings for all these

The villages where they live

So the good news is God's got these groups out there that are taking

He's always had stuff. Yeah, yeah without the building without

And he's building him and so we've we have a commit curriculum that's actually expanded vassay work with a team

There's 12 on the team 12 and we do zoom

Not zoom now just the other one

We're always connecting and and refining the curriculum and it's actually got a whole

Program for illiterate people

It's called a rality would focus on women

Memorizing Bible stories in a discipleship curriculum. Yeah, wow, but it's in it's in six or seven languages now in the one that's

Donald of the most right now is in spanish interesting believe it or not. Yeah, it wasn't supposed to be that way. Yeah, good

Well, it's interesting because it's about a year ago you and I were involved with a ministry in Mexico

That has a ministry in Egypt. Okay, and we taught yeah some Bible classes

That were translated into Spanish then into Egyptian

Or in Arabic to Somali

It is it's just you know

Thank you God for technology and how's being used. Yeah, it's something it's the same thing is happening

The world is big and yeah, and the internet is great because it's out there

And we hear of it being used ways it was never intended to be used

And that's actually what happened in Mexico because the friend of ours actually

Mexican

Worker

And we needed a translator we connected

The program with her she started translating she said this stuff works great. I'm working

Cycling a cousin to the other side of Mexico using the curriculum

And then whatever I don't know what she did, but now it's the most downloaded country

You can see what country download stuff

Mexico Yemen all the hardest place. There's no internet in Gaza, but I can guarantee they're getting it

Yeah, because we're what where the world falls apart. There's a hunger. Yeah

And the gospel thrives off and amazing. Yeah

So how can we support you and how can we be praying for you?

Well, we just love arcade. It's just a fabulous church and you guys are great. So thank you

Thank you. Thank you. Come back and we had Tom and Shana visit us in France and that was super fun

And we love and you guys and visit us overseas too. So that's encouraging

Just keep praying for us pray for us to have more and more opportunities to share the gospel

Charles the street evangelism and be be a great church like you are our grandkids will be missionaries something

There you go. Hey, that's great because you're faithfulist. She gets in first. There you go

I think you're working with kids. It's just it's just so worth it to serve Jesus

It is and I mean if I had to do my whole life over again

I do it exactly the same way. It's so much fun. That's beautiful

So I mean, it's I think we need to hear that. That's a little kids need to know that it's so worth it

Yeah, yeah, yeah

Yeah, I tell if I have a chance to speak to teens. I want to that's what I want to tell them. Yeah

Following Jesus is yeah, it's hard, but it's worth it

Sometimes we feel like you know, I remember when our daughter came back to America. She's like mom

I'm gonna be so bored in America. I'm like honey. I was raised in America. It's okay

But I think their life in being raised in the Middle East is kind of been a technicolour and then you know

You come back to America. She feels it's just kind of a little slow

Yeah, so but I think that's one thing we've experienced is um

Just the Lord's faithfulness to our family and our kids and you know living this crazy life has been

Very interestingly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and our Kate has always been

Say I as an old arcade or before you guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and faithful at following God's direction as a church

You know, I looked at our service Sunday. That's not done in average mega church. You just pray for each other

But that's something an ethos that God created through you former pastors

And that we want to pray and so keep keep you know, we need to keep following Jesus in it and

sensitive to him and not some

Megaturch format as you know

Yeah, we're gonna have allergic to make a church

Need to be that. Yeah, hey before we pray. I was gonna say oh you want to do be holding them pray. Yeah, all right, yeah

Um

As as I don't know if we talk to you about it, but it's behold podcast and the reason why we call it behold is simply because

we want to end each podcast

Episode with beholden Christ and a beat of Christ and so we're kind of talking with Charles before you got here and

We we talked about a couple of times. In fact, you did about the messiness of ministry and how it's just

Sometimes all you see is the mess and things and one of the places that that

Charles

Recommended we go to is is acts 14 and I won't read the whole thing, but it's you know, Paul and Barnett are an iconium

And it does not go well. I mean they're getting beaten with rods

There's all kinds of misunderstanding the then religious authorities are trying to conspire to

Kick Paul and Barnett us out and then later on Paul and Barnett are accused of being gods

You know, and it's just it is just a mess and

I mean Beth, I mean that's ministry

I mean, it's ministry

Where you're at and if it's in Europe or if it's in the Middle East it's it's messy and Sacramento and yet

What you said earlier on in the podcast show is

Pro Jesus

Jesus is the only answer to clean up the messes that we create

And you guys are living breathing testimonies at your testimony to begin with but then also

I think that I'd like to think and I think it's true that

When you get to heaven

There's gonna be people that you never met here

That are there because of

How faithful you to have been over the decades to be pro Jesus

When you could have gone you could have gone veered off to political aspirations

You could have veered off for doctrinal aspirations

But you chose to stay the course and be close to Jesus and I think that

That's what we try to model here of course for all of us all of us want to sing. Yeah, so we just really appreciate

Everything you guys too. Well, it's it's been a lot of fun

Yeah

Debbie's everywhere. It's an honor and people call me Debbie

Oh

I try to be Debbie as many ways as possible

But I just know it is it is always an honor when

Our partners around the world are here

And then to get a chance to sit down and chat with you guys any and hear your hearts and see your passion for Jesus and for the people that

He's really interested to hear

It's it's inspiring to me now, but also in thinking about eight-year-old Matthew thought she was gonna be a missionary

Well, I was gonna say this is this is very personal for you. Yeah, every time we have

someone a partner in ministry here

Is you really I mean it are just so edified and so motivated to continue in ministry because you you do have that partnership heart

that

We all need to have I just I want to I

Okay, how else can I dance the gospel? Yeah, through the people interested to my care teaching children is so important

I yes, I agree

I can't I'm not gonna be like no

Yeah, let's get a heart for Jesus from my age because I was involved up in Minnesota and girls missionary guild

You know, I was the overachiever with my sister. We had all the verses done up to age 15 at age like town

Yes, you know, so but I just think back to all those people in my life that encouraged me

Well, and I can tell you your grandkids are in safe hands in the children's ministry here

I mean because the dogs that goes out aggressively. Yeah, every time you're with them. Yeah, so yeah

Yeah, we don't look thank you for taking care of our grandkids. Well, we're on the other side of the world. It's an honor

It's an honor. What should we do for them? Yeah, yeah, okay

Oh, Lord Jesus our good and faithful savior

Here in Sacramento and around the world

What a joy it is to hear how you have equipped Charles and Beverly to serve you and to honor you with their whole entire lives

Thank you for

The fruit that they get to see from their work. I know a lot of people don't get to see fruit, but um

Hearing about

people in taxis and

traffic to women being drawn out of

Terrible situations and and then hearing your gospel

What a powerful thing that is and

And Charles and Beverly might roll their eyes that well, we're just doing what

What we're called to do and yes, they are just doing what they're called to do

But wow, thank you for giving them the courage to say yes and to keep

Putting one foot in front of the other and to cry out to you morning and night and and to know that

Being pro Jesus is what you've called them to do so Lord would you protect them would you

Give them a sweet joy in their marriage would you give them more and abundant fruit through the ministry and the work of their hands give them strength

Give them peace and allow them to be a presence of your peace as well

Father

What a gift that you have given the behold podcast family

um

I thank you so much for the friendship the faithful friendship of Charles and Bev and

What they have meant to so many here, but then also to us and so we thank you for them and Lord

We are asking in Jesus name by the powder spirit

That every conversation they have is a kingdom seed planted that will

That will germinate and grow and

We're not we're not asking you to do it in front of us, but if you do that be great

I do ask that you encourage

Charles and Bev with fruitful ministry with their teams both in the Middle East and in Europe

I pray Lord God that you preserve their marriage and make it ever stronger as the years go by

Father while there you are away

I pray that you keep their children their grandchildren safe in that their children can grow

to be

Men and women of robust faith in Jesus in Jesus one

Father we

You've you've planted us in this messy world you've planted Charles and Beverly in

messy places in the world

And you've called them to bring a story that brings order and humility and beauty

So I pray Lord God that that story be heard over and over again of King Jesus who has died and has risen and has promised return

Would you please cause that message or resonate

Across cultures both far and here in Jesus name amen

Thank you guys

You