sportsSep 4, 202611:01

S8, Ep 65: Mastering the Roll Cast: Mac Brown's Essential Techniques for Challenging Waters

About this episode

Episode Overview

How do you build a roll cast good enough to effectively fish tight, brush-choked mountain streams where there's no room for a backcast at all? On this Casting Angles installment of The Articulate Fly fly fishing podcast, host Marvin Cash and Master Casting Instructor Mac Brown of Mac Brown Fly Fish in Bryson City, North Carolina, break down what actually separates a "world class" roll cast from one anglers only think is dialed in. Mac frames the roll cast as the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free tool for the tight, overgrown trout streams typical of the Appalachians and mid-Atlantic, where casters rarely have the 15 to 20 feet of clearance needed for a conventional backcast. The conversation works through the mechanics of the shallow D loop, the critical role of a properly matched double taper fly line over a weight forward, and the anchor placement drills anglers can run in the late summer off-season before trout fishing picks back up. Mac also covers how to reposition the D loop to neutralize wind and why timing tightens up considerably when casting upstream and downstream on moving water. Whether an angler works small freestone streams in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park or any other tight, overgrown trout water, the episode offers a practical framework for turning a serviceable roll cast into a genuinely reliable one.

Key Takeaways

How to build a genuinely long roll cast by prioritizing precise anchor placement before adding power, since consistent anchor placement handles roughly 90 percent of the battle once the cast becomes dynamic.
Why a double taper fly line, not a weight forward, is the right gear choice for roll casting, since a weight forward's short head leaves too much thin running line at the rod tip to load the cast properly.
How to throw a shallow D loop that occupies only 3 to 4 feet of space behind the caster, making it possible to fish brush-choked mountain streams with no conventional backcast room.
When to set the D loop on the downwind side of the rod to turn wind from a safety and casting problem into a non-issue.
Why timing becomes more critical on upstream and downstream roll casts, since moving water pulls the D loop away from its initial placement.
How to use late summer off-season evenings to practice anchor placement in knee-deep water before trout season demands the skill on the water.

Techniques & Gear Covered

The episode centers on roll cast mechanics, starting with the shallow D loop: a compact, low-power pickup that occupies only 3 to 4 feet of space behind the caster rather than a full V loop, making it usable in the tight streamside brush typical of southern Appalachian trout water. Mac ties gear directly to technique, explaining why a double taper line outperforms a weight forward for roll casting, since the mass needed to load the cast sits near the rod tip rather than in a short head backed by thin running line. The conversation also covers anchor placement as a stand-alone practice skill, with Mac recommending anglers wade in knee-deep water and repeatedly set the line so the anchor lands close to a rod length away, refining accuracy independent of live fishing pressure. Additional technique notes include adjusting D loop size and forward loop size for distance and control, positioning the D loop on the downwind side of the rod for safer, easier wind management, and the added timing demands of roll casting upstream and downstream where current pulls the D loop after its initial placement.

FAQ / Key Questions Answered

What is a shallow D loop and why does it matter for trout streams?

A shallow D loop is a compact roll cast that energizes the line but backs off power quickly enough to occupy only 3 to 4 feet of space behind the caster, rather than a full V loop that might need 20 feet or more. It matters because tight, brush-lined Park and Appalachian streams rarely offer enough clearance for a conventional backcast, making the shallow D loop the tool that keeps anglers fishing productively in that water.

Why does fly line taper matter so much for a long roll cast?

A double taper line carries its mass in the belly of the line near the rod tip, which is the portion doing the work in a roll cast. A weight forward line, by contrast, has a short head followed by thin running line, so attempting a long roll cast with a weight forward often fails because there isn't enough mass positioned where it's needed to load the rod.

How should anglers handle wind when roll casting?

Mac recommends setting up the D loop on the downwind side of the rod as a simple, repeatable adjustment. This keeps the line moving away from the body rather than into it, turning wind from a safety concern and casting obstacle into a non-issue without requiring any additional technique changes.

When is the best time to practice roll cast placement?

Late summer, when water temperatures are too warm for productive trout fishing across the Southeast, is an ideal window to practice. Mac suggests wading in knee-deep water and repeatedly practicing where the anchor lands, aiming for a placement close to a rod length away, so that accuracy is dialed in before the cast needs to perform under real fishing pressure.

Why does timing become more critical on upstream and downstream roll casts?

When casting upstream or downstream rather than across the current, moving water actively pulls the D loop away from its initial placement. That added variable means anglers need tighter timing between forming the D loop and executing the forward stroke than they would casting across slower or stiller water.

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The Articulate Fly — S8, Ep 65: Mastering the Roll Cast: Mac Brown's Essential Techniques for Challenging Waters. Machine-transcribed; use the interactive transcript above to jump the player to any line.

Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articular Flower back with another casting angles with the man himself, Mac Brown. Mac how are you? I'm doing great, how are you doing Marvin? I'm still digging out. I was out of town, I guess weekend before last at this point, at the outdoor writers' association annual meeting and when I travel and go away like that same thing when I go and fish for you know a few days I always kind of takes me a little bit of time to get back in the saddle. Well, yeah, I get it and the traveling always takes time to get back in the saddle and tell us about the awards of their Marvin, congratulations. Oh yeah, thanks. I was very fortunate this year and really appreciate it. I have one first place and third place in fishing in the radio podcast category and one first place in conservation. So you know, folks, if you watch the social media stuff over the next week or so, you'll see which episodes those words I kind of dropped those out for folks. But yeah, it's funny too, you know, watching social media, we were talking before we

started recording and our buddy Joe Humphrey's turned 97 and caught his first Atlantic salmon. I know that really touched my heart and I saw that post and just to have the the goal to go to Iceland, you know what, 97, what they're always catching Atlantic salmon, I just thought that was really really cool about goal setting and meeting your goals, you know. Yeah, and you were saying we were talking before you started recording that made, I don't know why it's kind of weird, Mac, you were hiking and you're like, that made you think about the roll cast. No, it did. So I was hiking. I got to tell you the story. So I'm hiking up the trail in the park going up towards cleanman's dome and I got to thinking about something. Joe told me years ago when I started doing the Framinski shows and he talked to me at the hotel that night, of course, we used to room together a lot back then and he says, he goes brownie because he always call me brownie. He says, the whole key is this. If when you're teaching because he taught the programs, you know, Penn State for so long implement the proper fundamentals and the proper sequence is always the key to success.

So then I thought about taking that little line and thinking about what do we do to bring this back to casting angles and, you know, setting goals like in folks casting would be a really worthy goal is I started thinking about one thing I did a lot with the kids when they were small. My boys is to make really certain that they had a world class, real class when they were a little bitty. And the reason I say that is it's to get out of jail free card, the most adaptable cast and fishing situations of, you know, variability of surroundings and things that that's probably the number one thing that really somebody that's out there trying to fish, you know, however many days a year they're blessed to be able to be on the water. Because I really want to improve that to where I've got something I can use for all these challenging, you know, places where there's not room to go to and from. Yeah, I think it's interesting too because, you know, you generally teach it like, hey, you know, you're on the bank and there's brush behind you.

But I think it's, if you think about it, you know, you know, where we fish and kind of the, the Appalachians and kind of the Mid-Atlantic, you know, trout streams often are really, really choked. So we're not, we're just talking about like, there's no backcast base period, right? Like, you know, you can roll cast pickup, but you don't have anywhere to send a lot on the backcast and it makes the roll cast super critical, right? Yeah. And especially with, you know, when it gets really covered is the ability to have a really shallow shallow delup. You know, that's the hardest thing there is to teach is when we talk about shallow delup, like you energize this pickup, but then we back off the power so much that we only occupy three to four feet of space and back up as total. That's what we mean by shallow delup. Of course, if there was 20 feet, we'd take the full 20 feet and throw more of a bit of loop if we had it. But chances are in this part of the country, we very rarely have that. Unless you're on like, you know, Nana Halas got more room if you're wading out in the middle or took a CG, but when you're talking about the park streams, you know, in the

national park, very rare, we get to do that. So, and also not just for the surroundings, but also just dealing with wind. Like, we can set up, set up the same role so easy to deal with wind where it's a, you know, more of a safety issue of like putting it on the downwind side. It's a real simple concept. You always make that on the downwind side. You don't have to worry about anything. So, I don't know. Yes, just I just know when I thought about this with the, when the kids were small, they were in college and senior in high school. My boys and they not thought about what is one of the best things. Really talking about overall with all of this cast and stuff. I mean, it's just, it's basically going back to what Jove talked about, of implement the proper fundamentals and the proper sequence. And that's the key to getting a world class role cast. Yeah. And so, let's define world class role cast because I think a lot of people think they have one and they probably don't write back. You probably, you're probably right. Yeah. Yeah.

So, what would it be is like the ability like when people talk about longer role cast, what is long? Well, that's going to vary. If I ask 100 people, you get 100 different answers, but being able to send it, let's just say that. Incenten, it doesn't mean just 20, 30 feet. Doesn't mean just 40 feet and it tops out. You follow me? So, if you, if you play around with the goal of really perfecting the role and you have the right type of line, of course, we got to talk a little bit about the gear with this because if you got the wrong kind of line, it's not going to work out well for you. So, you want to have like a double taper to do these kind of fishing casts with the roles, okay? Because if you got a, a weight forward and you're trying to do a 50 foot row cast and there's 20 foot of running line, it's not going to work out well because you got the wrong gear. And so, ah, that's the big reason why I think so many of us, you know, myself included. I've always been in no parts with a double tapers for that reason. You know, so you have the mass and the line that, because the part that's doing all the work is the amount of line that's up near the rod tip.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, you know, it's kind of like, you know, actually, I have some wolf triangle tapers, right? Which is kind of the, probably the best, but if you don't want to do that, you know, to your point, you don't want that short, weight forward head on the water and then you got running line at the rod tip because you're not going to go anywhere, right? That's right. Yeah. That's just a gear mismatch. So, even if you're, you know, like the US team, we talked about that a little bit before we started. They did really well in Italy this year. But yeah, just having the wrong setup would totally sabotage, you know, of the gift of ability. So it's really important. It's not just a little bit important. It's pretty critical that we have the right type of gear to do what we're talking about. And of course, for me, it's like, as long as it's a double taper, man, everything's going to be golden. Whether it's a two weight or a four weight, I mean, I fish a lot of two weights. That's pretty much my preference. It's two weights, 80 grains for the first 30 feet. So if it's a double taper, we've got, you know, it's still quite a bit of weight.

Everybody thinks, well, that's really light. But go ahead and take that. 80 grains, Tom's three, that's still quite a bit of weight. It's 240 grains of weight. So it's pretty easy to take a two weight double taper and still send it just like you'd send it with a four or five, you know. Yeah, and I would say two, then to me, the kind of the two other things that kind of hopped in mind are the loop size on the forward cast, small versus large. And then also playing around with the size of the delouping back, right? Because you know, you can go dynamic, right? If you have the room and you get a really big delute, right? Yeah, if you have the rim, by all means, take it. You know, use what you got in the course of the best way for folks to do this. Got to, like this time of year, especially because it's still hot, still not going to be great trout fish anywhere around the southeast. Many, I know social media might say it is, but the reality is it 90 degree. No, it's not. Let's talk. And a lot of the rivers here are still in the upper 60s, low 70s. So you could practice this stuff in the evening, just put some fluff on there, put a

leader, go out in the water, stand about knee date and just start practicing where the, where the lines, you know, going to land for the anchor, you know, the anchor being out where the nail knot is, the amount of line you're going to set, set down on the water and just sit there and precisely practice like where are we setting this? Like there's there is an optimal, you know, a lot of times we want to have that optimal close to a rod length away with the anchor lands. Of course, what's going to happen when they practice it is sometimes it's going to be way past a rod length and sometimes it's not going to be far enough. So and then sometimes it's just right. And so the, the goal is about practicing these rolls when it's off season. It's used to start to add some perfection to where the placement is because that's 90% of the battle when it becomes dynamic. Yeah, I would say to another thing to practice is, you know, upstream and downstream, right? Because, you know, in timing gets really important when you basically are having your deloup taken away from your rate. Yeah. Conning gets, yeah, I think it gets more critical.

Yeah, because it'll just wash away from you. So those are just some ideas, folks, something to kind of think about as we kind of are waiting for, you know, I guess we got what we got about five weeks before D.H. season kind of fires up again, assuming it cools off enough form to stock. That's right. Yeah. It was coming up pretty quick. And yeah, for anybody interested too, we've got a, we've got one spot left in the 19th of September in the weekend, you know, 19th and 20th. So yeah, if you want to fix your real cast can really, really get one down and that'd be the good spot to do it. And that's your, that's your mastery, weekend workshop, right? Yep. Yeah. So we're looking forward to that. I'm really, I'm really looking forward to getting that started. And, um, yeah, that's one of my favorite, favorite weekends pretty much of the year. Yeah. Then we leave that and then you got guide schools, right? Yeah, then we go right into those in October and of course, October starting to pick up already with calls and things. And, um, yeah, I'm looking forward to, I'm just looking forward to cooler temperatures,

Marvin, to be honest, it's like, feels like I live in South Carolina now and I live in it, you know, one of the coolest places in the southeast. And it really hadn't felt that way the last few months, you know, it's not going to help that wood get split. Is it Mac Brown? No, plus we got a whole bunch of word to split for winter still. So I've got my chores cut out for me the next couple of weeks. Yeah. And so, you know, folks, you can learn about all the max classes at Mac Brown, flyfish, guy trips and all that sort of stuff too. And, you know, I think he's probably got his 2027, you know, Shiz schedule. I heard out he may not have it on the website yet. But, you know, folks, as always, say yo to yourself to get out there and catch a few. Tightlines everybody. Tightlines Mac. Fight lines.

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