Science doesn't lie the nancy Guthrie case breakdown.

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Yeah, you know, Mike, just I don't want to hop on this.

But there's also a chain of custody issue when you play games like this, right?

Chain of custody is you want the least amount of people touching evidence as possible.

Because defense attorneys make their living offer that.

Make their living offer trying to disqualify evidence because too many people touched it.

And that's what did in the simplest way.

That's what chain of custody is back to Brian Anton.

Why would they need to go to the FBI lab if they've already been sent to the Florida lab?

I'm going to have CC moron in a second here.

Genealogist and FBI and DNA expert to explain that.

And the answer is actually very interesting.

And I'm going to let her explain it because she can explain it much better than I am.

Can because she's the expert.

Also, Pima County Sheriff put out a statement regarding this new reporting.

They say, uh, Pima County Sheriff's Department has worked with the FBI since the beginning of the Guthrie investigation.

This is not new information.

The private lab will utilize in Florida continues to share information with the FBI lab and other partner labs across the country DNA analysis remains ongoing.

And when they say other partner labs across the country.

This is because remember they've been having issues with some of the DNA that is mixed.

And to separate it out can be a complicated process.

So other labs may have different technology, the FBI may have different technology, which is why this evidence is now being sent out to the FBI to test.

But again, the hairs in particular are interesting.

And that's what I want to talk to CC more about.

And find out, you know, is this progress could this mean that we are actually getting closer to some real progress in the Nancy Guthrie case?

CC, thank you for joining me.

I know it was late notice with this kind of just developing here within the last couple of hours.

But I want to see what you think is going on behind the scenes here because what I have for my sources that DNA evidence from Nancy Guthrie's home has been sent to the FBI lab for advanced analysis.

And the evidence includes hairs found in Guthrie's home.

So the fact that it's hairs, what does that tell you?

Well, I've been really hoping that maybe they did have some hair to work with because of the more recent advancements in the field hair absolutely can make the case solvable.

So I'm really excited.

And the fact that they sent it to the FBI is interesting to me because they don't have the technology to extract snips from rootless hair.

I'm assuming it's rootless hair because if it had a root, it would be really quite straightforward and the lab in Florida would have already done that and maybe the case would already be solved.

And so this is very likely a rootless hair or hair shaft, which until recently we were all told did not contain any useful DNA for forensics or for this type of analysis.

So the FBI regularly works with a company called Australia forensics and UC Santa Cruz founded by Dr. Richard Ed Green, who is brilliant.

And he is one of those people I love that proved everyone else wrong when he was able to refine a technology, create and refine a technology to extract SNP profiles from rootless hair.

And I personally have helped solve six cases, I think it is now that only had rootless hair as the physical evidence and there are many, many more that have been solved and are in the process of being solved.

So it opens up many thousands of cases for being able to finally be solved that don't have any other type of DNA evidence.

So I've talked about this a lot in this case that I was hoping there might be the opportunity to find some hair. Now we just have to hope that it is the person or persons one of the persons who kidnapped Nancy.

And so you know Mike love love CC more she really explains this stuff to the lay person and she makes it understandable.

But one of the things that we would want to know and everyone that's watching would want to know how did they know that these hairs belong to the purpose or perpetrators.

And one of the things we suggested early on I was sure they they have completed this was to take DNA elimination samples from the family from anyone that had permission and or authority to be in that house and may have left their DNA hairs or whatever inside that home.

More complicated than it might seem because what we had thought early on in this case and I still believe that is that the perpetrators in this case are known to Nancy gets free.

So that complicates matters a little bit right because now when they test all these hairs and they come up.

I mean I'd I'd be interested to know with investigative gene genetic genealogy and that's the step after SNPs single nucleotide polymorphism which they amplify the DNA.

They have to build a family tree and as that reporter just said that was on that they have to build the family tree from the DNA using one of the genetic genealogical sites.

And now so there's so many steps to this and then there's a whole investigatory step of running things and finding documents and finding things on the computer and to build this family tree but that's how it's done Mike.

Yeah there's no guarantee that this is you know the the thing the one thing that can crack this case wide open CC more is being is being you know a little guarded she's like yeah this could be it but it could not be you know let's see where as you said you got to take the elimination DNA samples from everyone who you know has been authorized to be there from plumber to electrician to groundskeeper to family member things like that.

Also where was the hair from was say for instance he had help changing her bed linens and housekeeping did you find that hair from inside the bed linens of of Nancy's house that morning that they you they went there with the crime scene you didn't found it where was was found in the bathroom was found in the kitchen you know as so that is also very important because this could potentially be the break.

But it may not be it may just lead to another dead end being and hope not but it could lead to another dead end saying this happens to be belong to someone who we we didn't even think of yet but who is another person who may have already.

already been had permission. Maybe it was a neighbor down the street that had stopped

by. We don't know. It's guarded optimism and CC Moore's right. I think it's guarded

optimism at this point. But you know, fingers crossed because you got, you say you've got

to take all those elimination DNA samples and come up with possible suspects. And even

if you do get a hit, as you say, it's the old fashioned way then. You got to look at

the technological data, phone, data, email, text messaging and all those other things.

It's a complicated, complicated thing. This is just one complicated facet of a very large

investigation. You know, Mike, also, you know, we talk about the needle and the haystack

type thing. I believe and I don't have the exact amount. But when you go into someone's

home, for example, you lose 50 to 75 particles of hair provided you have hair on your head,

just being in that person's home. So we actually shed hair. And you may not see it because

it may be not visible to the naked eye. But that happens to be a fact. So people shed

hair. And as we said, the theory, low cards, principle of exchange, when you go into

a crime scene, you bring something with you. And when you leave, you take something

away from that crime scene. And that has to do with cross contamination. Let me get back

to CC more.

I'm trying to make sure I understand you currently. So before when there was hair found that

didn't have the root, it was just deemed to not really be that useful. And that has

now changed.

Yes. So you could get mitochondrial DNA from it only.

My mitochondrial DNA can be good for helping to roll people out. It's not so good for

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How many people share the same profile? And so it was kept in many of these cases, fortunately,

but not analyzed because there wasn't really anything to do with it genetically.

Now they might have looked at it to street see if it was consistent with suspects, hair,

or the victim's hair, for instance, but not any type of DNA analysis.

So that's changed dramatically over the last couple of years or few years

with Dr. Ed Green's innovation and his great team over at Australia.

And the FBI is regularly using them. They used them in the Gilgo Beach murder case,

and that is one of the things that helped them zero in on Rex Hewerman.

And there hasn't been a lot of talk on that actually, but that was really important

because they set a case precedent there when the judge allowed that to be entered

or was going to allow it to be in the evidence in the trial, which now isn't going to happen.

So it's it's something you know, Mike, I just have to a CC was 1,000% correct here.

But one of the things I want to raise the issue of it because she mentioned the Gilgo Beach case

in Rex Hewerman. For 12 years, there was really like no movement.

But while there was no movement on the Gilgo Beach case, they preserved the evidence.

It was preserved for many, many, many, many years all the way back to 1993.

And this case was the Gilgo Beach case was just when you looked at it from afar,

you were really baffled by it because there was so many different things that happened,

you know, the bodies dumped in different places, body parts found here, body parts found there,

Shannon Gilbert found 10 miles from Gilgo. And at first it was thought to be one of the Gilgo Beach

victims. Now they're pretty sure at least the Suffolk County DA and the Suffolk County Medical

Exam in his office, believe she was not. But all of this was put together and CC was right.

The DNA helped put it together, but there was many branches on this tree. And the thing that

actually identified Rex Hewerman was in a police report that sat for 12 years and no one put

it together. And it was that he had that avalanche, that Chevy avalanche vehicle that was described

by a PIMP for one of the victims. And they couldn't find that car. And at two months after

they put together the Gilgo Beach Task Force, a state investigator, a female detective from the

state police, New York State Police found that car and identified the owner, the owner was

Rex Hewerman. Now the rest of the evidence, the DNA and everything else is just a cherry on top

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