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You are listening to the One of Us God Net Podcast Network!
Coming this fall to the One of Us Podcast Network, Hartfeldt, this limited series celebrates
the 70th anniversary of the Muppets and the life and times of their creator, Jim Henson.
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I'm Eric Saminyego, and this is Hartfeldt.
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Hello there!
This is attempted Southern impersonation Bradley Martin, but not just any attempt, an attempt
from the 1860s to 1865 when brother and brother were spilling blood for the state's rights
to own other people.
I'm talking about the Civil War, y'all.
One of the things, well here I'll go in the accent, and by the way, hello, Mindy.
A North Carolina was the first to succeed from the Union and form the beginnings of the
Confederate States of America.
In their proclamation, they did not list, quote, states' rights once.
They listed slavery over 10 times.
They knew what they was doing when they succeed.
The Greyhouse, an eight episode mini series, because that's what I call anything that
doesn't have a 20 episode season I'm old, is about the Civil War and the spies that
operated during the Civil War, but not just any kind of spy, ladies.
In particular, the Van Lue family.
We have veteran actress Mary Louise Parker playing Eliza Van Lue and her daughter Daisy
Head playing Elizabeth Van Lue, the actress being Daisy Head, no relation.
They are putting their lives on the line to make sure through these tumultuous times
in the south of the United States that people are able to fight for freedom.
This underground network of spies they have set up has so much turmoil and anguish within
the tellings of these stories.
To talk about the historical figures, how this series went, and if it accomplishes
the, are you learning something or are you entertained or if it's able to balance those
two things in between, I have drew with us.
Hey there, happy to be here and as a Virginia boy, I got to say your southern accent got
the cadence pretty close to some of the Hick folks I went to high school with.
I don't mean that derogatory, I love Hicks, they're all wonderful people.
Most very good people.
And also we have Mindy with us indeed.
And I will say from the great state of Texas, we didn't get to do a lot during the Civil
War because there was a big old blockade, but they were cheering for the Confederacy
in the sidelines much to the dismay of Sam Houston.
He wanted to punch everybody in the face when they decided to join the Confederacy.
You should read his speech when somebody asked him in Galveston why he was opposed to joining
the Confederacy and it's Lin-Manuel Miranda would be proud.
It starts with let me tell you what is coming and it just goes on from there.
And I wish I could have been a fly in the room when he was dragged out of the floor just
cussing everybody out about joining the Confederacy.
Oh, that's amazing.
I told you I was the history nerd.
Mary Jane Richards is one of the prominent characters in this.
She is a freed slave played by Amethyst Davis.
As free as you could be called at that time, I'm a little foggy on the details what it
meant to be free and not a slave while being in Virginia.
Well.
Well, she wasn't a freed slave.
She was by accounts a slave, but she was treated as though she was just a hired worker.
That's why she was able to go into the Jefferson Davis home and spy there because Elizabeth
Van Liu offered her as essentially a present to the household.
So according to the people living in Virginia, Mary Jane was a slave, but she was also a spy.
Yeah, very effective spy as well.
It was pretty cool to see how the network was set up.
Well, I mean, yes, sorry.
History nerd.
Is it a little over cinematic or over dramatized?
Well, here's the thing.
One about Mary Jane Richards in particular is, and I'm okay with it being used this way
because it was clear that the stuff that they presented about her was stuff that is part
of her wives' tale.
Like one of the things is that she has a photographic memory.
That was a wives tale.
That was written after I think after she died was that was said about her.
So it's part of the mythology of Mary Jane Richards.
And that was, that was okay.
So if we're going into the nitty gritty of how we felt about it, before we're really going
into the, so that was okay because it is, you know, this is based on a true story.
But the thing that got me was the end when it was the wrap up because at the wrap up,
it had very much a documentary style of like, here are the real people.
And I was okay with the wrap up of Mary Jane Richards, although they didn't quite mention
that, you know, Jericho Bowser, who's a person she ended up with, she kind of was like,
hmm, she stopped going by Bowser after a while.
She went back to Richards.
Break up.
They didn't mention that.
It started with Clara Parrish was in an unmarked grave and all that.
And she was one of the forgotten.
It's like, yeah, you know why Clara Parrish didn't have a grave because she isn't real.
There was a spy who was a whore in the brothel.
There were plenty named Clara with the code name Bell, Thomas McNiven, who was also a member
of the spy network who was a baker.
In his notes, he mentions her.
He mentions a Clara who is Bell.
That's really the only information we have.
So there was no, her husband died who was a newspaper person for spouting things.
There was no she was banging a Jewish senator and there was none of that.
But they acted as though Clara Parrish was a real person, not cool with that.
Elizabeth Van Liu obviously the last person that they mentioned.
One of the things Elizabeth Van Liu, they called her crazy bet because she was a spencer,
not because her mom died.
And one of the things too, it's like, oh, her detractors ripped down her home.
Well, yeah, a woman who never married and had no heirs, they took that home and demolished it.
Right, they looted the home.
No, they built a school.
They demolished it and they built a school.
Well, that's kind of a little bit different.
And then it's like, she was buried upright facing north.
No, she wasn't.
That is a wives tale much like.
I do feel like that was kind of over over that that does sound like something you just tell people
to ignore them.
I just like, if that sort of stuff was in the miniseries itself, I'd be a little bit better
okay with it, like said by like Mary Jane's, you know, a photographic memory, because that's
part of the storytelling.
That's okay.
But this little bit at the end, it's presenting it as those, this is fact.
And no, it wasn't.
And that pisses me off.
It's like, if you're going to do something historical in a way of, I am teaching you things.
You can accurate.
Don't piss me off.
I did want to say that Hannah James was the actress that played Clara Parish and excellent
job.
But for some reason, all the most violent scenes in this are played towards Clara Parish
and her sisters in the brothel.
And after like the fifth or sixth time, one of them was put in a very violent over-the-top
situation, like Game of Thrones violence, I'm even going to say, especially towards the
end of the series, I felt this is gratuitous.
Any feelings on that, Drew Ormond?
Yeah, that's kind of one of my bigger criticisms with the series as a whole is like, I don't
know, I'm not squeamish when it comes to violence depicted in media, but like I kind of feel
like it should be justified tonally or I don't know, just carried in a more thoughtful
way.
And I really, yeah, there's a lot of scenes in this that yeah, they do come across as gratuitous,
not only with the sex workers in the brothel, but like in particular, there's a lot of just
brutal violence put towards the enslaved people.
In a way that just, yeah, it feels gratuitous.
I understand it's a, you know, it's a series about the Civil War, the most violent thing
to happen on US soil, but yeah, I just, I, the tonal shifts that kind of take place during
the series are, it just makes me feel icky the way that the violence has handled.
Well, historically, I was thinking, and I'll ask you this, Mindy, are you sure TV show
that they had waterboarding back then?
Right.
What?
I think, well, also the putting people in a building and burning it down, that was a World
War II thing.
The Patriot did that as well.
It's like, no, that was a World War II thing.
Which is, I've been told that's an absolutely ridiculous scene as well, because the Brits
would be like, I am burning a church, I could never have tea with my grand-grand-grand
again, if I burned a church down.
Yeah.
Anyways.
I, I wasn't so like, fixated on the expressions of violence in the show in so much of like
them and themselves as an indicator of a bigger problem with this miniseries.
Which is that it's the Civil War.
The Civil War was a battle, as you said, one of the greatest evils this country has ever
had at its foundation, an evil that still exists in the world.
In this country, the repercussions of it are still felt to this day.
It was, brother against brother, this is specifically about spies, so you have this underground
espionage.
Danger is like 10 out of 10, you know, fighting for survival.
You don't need to add shit to make that engaging.
And yet, like the biggest, well, one, like you, for example, Katie, you know, teaching
a whore how to be a whore.
Oh, yeah.
That whole story at all.
That whole storyline.
Get rid of her.
It's, it's completely gratuitous.
There's no need for that other than looky whores.
Elizabeth Van Lue, so much of the story is based on her love life.
Remember, crazy bet, she was a spencer.
And yet, the majority of the show is entirely focused on her love life.
Why?
Why not focus on the fact that you're fighting against one of the greatest evils that has
ever existed in humanity?
Like the, the first episode was okay in establishing everything.
But then the second episode had this Jane Austen type misunderstanding, and it's like, all
you had to do was like this guy fights for the Confederacy, you believe in the Union.
That's it.
I didn't need to have this convoluted, oh, misunderstanding, that if I had talked to
you for five seconds, I would have realized the misunderstanding was there that put a
rift in our entire relationship.
And then in steps in sister-in-law, whose only personality trait is evil, which that's
just very evil.
Yeah.
That's very evil.
Like over the top evil.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like, where's she, where's she learned to be so evil?
She's privileged.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, like I, that is, you know, good segue, my second probably biggest criticism for
the series is like a lot in the writing and the pacing.
It is just sort of all over the place.
We do have these subplots that really don't go anywhere, I think a lot of that is because
of just the huge bloat of characters, you know, before we started recording Bradley
was joking.
Like I need to have the whole cast list in front of me so I don't mix anybody up because
there's just so many characters to keep track of and so many of them feel so superfluous
and really don't have like a satisfying resolution.
I really think that there is enough content in this series that they could easily cut
two episodes and have a much better, tighter story.
And maybe characters.
Yeah, just, it's all over the place and I like, just to harp on it a little bit more
when you have such a huge cast, it really just kind of puts into focus who are the stronger
actors and who are the weaker ones and I really do think this cast has a very broad range
of talents.
And there are a lot of people that really knock it out of the park and steal the show
in the scenes where they need to in particular, I believe it's episode two when Keith
David makes his ears.
I was just about to say Keith David.
As Reverend Garnett, he just, I mean, that scene is easily I think the best in the entire
series.
It is certainly up there.
He is.
It's the best episode as well.
Yeah, I mean, he is just a firebrand like amazing.
Well, also those one of the things that like initially got me into the show because like
you have the opening, which is this absolutely gorgeous animation with this banger song.
And then it has Keith David's narration, which I was like chef's fucking kiss because
for those who don't know, Keith David, yes, he is an amazingly prolific live action actor
that he is an incredibly famous voice actor.
And one of the big things that he got famous for was being the narrator for the Ken Burns
Civil War documentary miniseries.
It is this insanely well done and popular documentary about the Civil War that Keith
David narrated.
So to have him be the person that is doing the narration, introducing the Civil War,
that was brilliant.
And I was like, I'm in.
And then it's just like, oh, why, why didn't you keep that momentum?
Well, I was hoping that we would just stick with him and anyone who left with him when
he left Richmond like, okay, we've been here in Virginia.
Let's follow Keith David's character or just the spot where he's going.
Yeah, yeah, like the entirety of it.
There's many series that's based on interpersonal relationships that are completely unnecessary.
And not only unnecessary, they muddy the message, like again, like World War II, they're
very clear bad guys in the Civil War.
And one of the things too, and I've seen this written in other reviews, is that the
real people were underutilized, which because they were real people doesn't in service to
them.
And even, you know, on which side of the aisle you are, like, you know, I saw that Jefferson
Davis was a major character in it.
And like, I went to the Confederate War Museum when I was in New Orleans, which was one of
his houses.
Like, this is all about what the Confederate experience was and who these people were.
And when the Civil Wars talked about Jefferson Davis is usually put in the background in favor
of the generals, Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, these people.
So I was like, oh, great.
We get to focus on Jefferson Davis.
And we get to focus on Mary Jane Richards and her espionage within his own home.
And how dangerous that was for her.
And we get to focus on Elizabeth Van Lue, who was part of the Underground Railroad and
all this other stuff.
And the focus was on Lue's love life and Mary Jane's love life and Clara's fucking love
life.
And it's just like, like, there's a sentence about how the senator that she's banging is
a Jew never comes up again.
That would be an interesting thing to focus on in regards to a religious context to having
slavery.
And it's just like, there was so much potential that was utterly wasted by focusing on fucking
lovey-dubby boyfriend, girlfriend bullshit.
And like those old, old love letters, like, blessed are my days when my hand is holding
yours.
Oh, that's wonderful.
And a slave is being whipped outside like, are we sure that one of these doesn't seem
more important than the other?
Sam Tremel playing Jefferson Davis as well.
And I think he's a very underrated actor.
So kind of a bummer that we don't see much of him other than, ah, ah, ah, suck.
Tremel, I give, speak loudly of our plans, you know?
Yeah, you kind of just get him being a bit buffoonish, which, I don't know, maybe that
was the character.
So we're going to go into our final thoughts.
Drew, would you begin, please?
Yeah.
So, you know, I don't want to rip this thing entirely apart.
I think that, um, on the technical level, I think it's actually pretty well done, um,
the costuming and like, uh, set design, I thought it was really nice to look at, um,
as far as like, I don't know, camera work goes, it can get a little flat, but there are
some cool images that we're getting to see during this, um, you know, that aside, I kind
of struggled to make it through this one, I definitely wouldn't have finished it if
I didn't have to do a review for it.
Um, it's just, it's poorly paced.
Um, I think a lot of performances are lacking, um, and yeah, I, I don't know how quickly
I would recommend this to somebody.
Um, I do think that the, the back half of the series, when it gets more into the war
aspects kind of got me more interested than, I would say the first three episodes are
just kind of a wash, um, for me.
Uh, so I would probably give this, um, a four out of 10 legs blown off on the battlefield.
But cannonballs, I think that's correct.
Yeah.
Yes, Mindy.
That would have been cannonballs.
Okay.
Yes.
And they would bounce, right?
Armaments didn't blow up until much later.
No, they, yeah.
They would smash through things and then roll along.
Yeah.
And then you'd lose your heat by a ginormous metal ball.
Yeah.
Who would have, ooh.
Well, yeah.
And the South was often denied supplies like morphine.
So those, so those bone saws were done without any kind of painkiller.
Well, uh, I'm going to give my final thoughts first, because I like the expert on history
to conclude and these type of things.
It ranged for me from pretty good to, I think this not only could be awful, but offensive.
I want to say it was episode two, one of the Van Luz starts giving this speech.
And I'm like, okay, impassioned speech, that's cool.
And then it starts to sound an awful lot like Malcolm X's speech about playing with the
rock.
And I'm like, what, what, what the hell was that?
And I tried to look it up.
I think how authentic is this speech in the gray house and I'm not good with the internet
or Google.
I'll admit that now.
But I couldn't find anything other than, did you mean Malcolm X's Plymouth Rock speech?
Okay.
We're moving on.
I will say I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to this, because I laughed every time
a Mr. Booth would come into a party and be like, oh, I hate that Lincoln.
And that's absurd.
That's ridiculous.
But I laughed.
I want to see more of this silly guy, just kind of waddle around being like, oh, I
like to play my greatest performances yet to come.
And by the end of all of it, with Morgan Freeman's narration about how all of this was
real promise.
I'm like, was it, you know what?
I'm glad you said that because now I have stuff to look into.
I always like when these things peak my curiosity about what's happened.
I too am going to give this 4 out of 10 lovely longing letters for a better life and
a better tomorrow to my dear Edwards or whoever it was.
There's a lot of them.
They pop up all throughout the whole damn thing.
And Mindy, your final thoughts, please.
Well, continuing off of what I have already said, yeah, one far too many characters.
There were points where I didn't even know who they were because they looked so much
alike.
Like who are you in comparison to everybody else?
There were many storylines with characters that won the characters were superfluous to
begin with.
But then their storylines just kind of ended.
Like the brother and evil bitch wife.
Like they could have cut her.
Both of them completely, Katie the whore could have cut her completely.
The white apologist slave matron could have cut her completely, which she actually muddied
the kind of overall message of the show.
That was one of the things too is that when it got to more the Civil War stuff, which was
about maybe episode five or six out of eight and started giving more of the moralizing,
the moralizing got muddied based on what was being shown and who was being said.
And I kind of get as a evil is human and nobody is black and white.
But it was done in a way that's like, wait, what are you trying to say now?
Which was frustrating.
And that's the thing is the show is frustrating because it was gorgeous.
Costumes are beautiful.
The topic is topical now.
And it had all this potential that was wasted on focusing on love lives that weren't actually
even existing.
Or maybe they were, but they weren't written down as a focal point.
You know, there was barely any mention and showing of the underground railroad.
There was barely any showing of the espionage.
And that was the whole intended focus of the show.
And the fact that that wasn't there, one, you don't care.
It's like, if I wanted to watch Jane Austen, I would watch Jane Austen.
But I wanted to watch a spy thriller historical fiction.
And that is not this.
And that's really disappointing, especially when the people that are at the center of it
who are real, we're fucking bad ass.
You know, and that's a discredit to them.
And that's what really pisses me off about it is that you intended this to honor them,
but you didn't focus on what made them honorable.
And that is sad.
So because of one Keith David, and I always got to love Keith David, and the fact that
it looked, oh, yeah, and another point is that, yes, the war was going on, but it really
Richmond was made so insular.
You couldn't really see how the war was affecting the world.
And that's a problem with several historical dramas that I've seen, where it's like, yes,
you have this big overarching evil and overarching event.
But you're so hyper focused on this one area.
You cannot see it, you barely see it trickle in.
And that again goes against the meaning of what you're trying to say.
So yeah, I was brought in, and then it became like a jumbled mess, and that really doesn't
point at me.
So heck, I'll make it a jackpot, I'll make it a 4 out of 10 too.
So 4 out of 10 mint ju-lips on the plantation porch.
