Season 3 Finale: Raw Confessions & Hard-Won Hope

Hey friends, before we dive into this week's episode, just a heads up.

Our podcast talks about suicide, sexual abuse, and other trauma, and some of what you hear

may be triggering, so please listen with care.

This is the Survivors, Real Stories, Raw Conversations, and the truth about what it means

to keep going after the hardest things.

We're so glad you're here.

Let's keep surviving together.

I just don't even know how we're here at this point.

It's been three months, 14 episodes, so many hours together in this little teeny tiny box,

and here we are at the end of season three of the Survivors, and that's our first season

together.

And I just love you.

That's all I have to say.

Well, thank you.

It's been a whirlwind, absolutely, for me.

It's been a blessing, an absolute blessing to do this with you.

I've learned so much about you, about myself, and I just, I can't thank you enough for bringing

me on to this project with you.

Oh God, that was a no-brainer.

I mean, the first time you and I even connected, it was just an automatic.

How can we not do this?

And I was just so happy that you said yes.

And here we are.

This seems like it was just what, October, November, when we started, I don't even remember.

It's been so long.

It feels like it's been, I don't know, it feels like we've, we've been connected for

an awful lot longer than just a few months, you know, in all the good ways.

So okay, today is the recap of season three, and we covered a lot.

I feel like we covered a lot, a lot of ground.

It was an emotional season.

I know it was for you.

It definitely was for me.

I think it was for all the people we've gotten feedback from since we started.

We started with, you know, our origin story, that how did we meet?

How did we get together and, and it was, it was, I think, pretty wild how you and I found

each other because we were definitely not looking for each other.

Mm-hmm.

Not in the slightest.

No.

No, not at all.

You, you had even just kind of started in your own life thinking thoughts of maybe someday

I would do a podcast and, and I was, you know, doing this podcast already and, and we

kind of had a shift in co-hosts and all of a sudden, one conversation with a mutual

friend that you and I have, Joe Masa, who has an amazing, amazing podcast and YouTube

channel that got us together, his my suicide story.

You were a guest and I was a guest and he kind of shipped us and here we are.

Yeah.

And, and you were willing to just take a massive, massive leap of faith because you had

never done this before.

This is totally absolutely new to me.

I, you know, just sharing what I did on Joe's podcast was, it's hard for me to go back

and watch that episode because it is so incredibly raw and emotional for me to, to share those

things publicly for the very first time.

And, and then, you know, I did that with Joe and then you and I started our podcast and

then I appeared on, I don't know, three or four other podcasts in like 60 days.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, you are out there.

Yeah, it was just a big old whirlwind and I honestly, I got wore out.

I had to take a beat and say, all right, I need to, because it is, it brings up a lot

for me every single time.

And, and there's a lot, there's a lot that you have in your story and that was one of

the biggest pivots that we meant that we made this season, which was not just talking about

being a survivor of a suicide loss or a suicide attempt, but you, just because of your

story and your background and your experience, brought a whole set of different types of

survivor stories to this podcast.

I mean, sexual abuse and you obviously are a survivor of suicide loss, five of them,

and also a suicide, you know, multiple suicide attempts and domestic violence.

And I mean, cult life, I mean, it's like a, the grab bag of survivor stories and, and

you have a full full bag.

Yeah, and that's, that's the other thing too, is it's like I, I could never, you know,

I did get one opportunity with another podcast where I was able to share my whole story and

I took two and a half hours of edited material.

It was at two and a half hours and it was just too much, you know what I mean, like people

are asking, when is the book coming out, when is the book coming out?

And I'm like, I don't know that I can fit all of this in one book.

I don't think that I, that I can do it.

I'm, I'm not sure.

I just feel like it might be a bit much for people to take in.

I might have to break it off into sections.

I don't know, but, you know, this podcast has given me the opportunity to get my footing,

you know, and ground myself and, and, and get myself out there and get more comfortable,

you know, as I've done more and more interviews and things like that, it's, it gets easier.

Yes.

And there's not as much emotion involved because you, you know, with practice or anything

like that, but, you know, it doesn't mean that it hurts any less.

I've just learned to share my story without gutting me every time.

Yeah.

Well, there's compartmentalizing that happens.

There's dissociation that happens.

I mean, you jumped in, you know, we're, we're recapping the season, so let's just jump

to right after our origin story, which was episode one, episode two was, was your story.

I thought it was really, really important to spend time and we did spend a lot of time

talking about where you came from with all of this and, and your life as a member of the

FLDS polygamy cult and your uncle is Warren Jeff's and your family was ex communicated

and you have 19, you had 19 siblings in your family, unfortunately you've lost five of

them.

I mean, you come from a very, very loaded background and you shared that and that, I mean,

you just dove head first into like the super deep end of the pool with, with both your part

one of your story and then episode three, we just kept rolling and, and that was part two of

your story and, you know, we kind of started at the beginning and worked our way all the way up

to now.

Yeah.

And it's interesting because I have cousins and my aunts, one aunt has reached out to me

and multiple times she's watched and listened to all the episodes.

I think she watches them on YouTube.

And when she, you know, first started listening and watching, she just was like, oh my God.

I had absolutely no idea that you were dealing with that for so many years.

And why didn't you ever say anything and I just, I had a lot of people ask me why didn't

I say anything?

And I just, I just, I don't know.

There was the shame behind, you know, attempting suicide myself multiple times.

How could I do that after losing two brothers in the early 2000s to that?

I just, I learned at a very young age to carry the baggage and the trauma alone and never

didn't, I didn't really feel safe to share with very many people at all.

And so, yeah, I've had a number of people that have let me know, you know, that I've friends

that I've only known for a few years.

And the sweetest comments and text messages and the either, but the underlying messages

is, if Natasha can get through this, what she has experienced, which is some of the

worst of the worst out there, if she can survive and come out on the other side, then I

can do it.

And that's the whole point.

That's what I mean.

I remember when you and I first talked way back before we ever hit record, that's what

you said.

If the benefit of my experience can help someone heal or can help someone find support or

can give someone guidance or just a little bit of hope, like that's the whole point.

And you did that and you, you know, we rolled straight into episode four, which was all

about you surviving sexual abuse and it was your brother who was your abuser.

And I mean, I just think of each of the things that you've shared about your life, losses

or attempts or, you know, domestic violence within your family and what happened with

your brother.

Like, how do you even rank those things in your brain, like as a listener, like one thing

is worse than the other, but they're all so just traumatic and life changing that you've

just, you just had a lot, you've had a lot in your life.

And the fact that you're here talking about it for the benefit of other people who may

be at a different point in their trauma, like that's heroic as far as I'm concerned.

So thank you.

Well, it's the truth that you're, I mean, you're welcome, but it's the truth.

I mean, it's how I feel.

So, well, I, again, having carried it for such a long time and I never certainly have

considered myself a quote unquote hero, but I have had comments and messages from people

saying that it's humbling, it's incredibly humbling and I don't take that lightly, you

know, I never sought out to have anybody go look at me, look at me, look at me.

It's never been about that.

In fact, in some ways, the accolades are hard for me to swallow it really because we didn't

grow up in a world of praise.

It was sit down, shut up and you're going to get what you're given.

And this has provided such an incredible amount of healing for myself.

So people come to, you know, they say, oh, my gosh, you're, you're healing me.

And it's, I'm like, it's a two way street here.

Well, that's what this podcast has always been.

I mean, it's just cathartic for me to come on and talk about the grief that I have or

the losses that I've had or, or, you know, dealing with mental illness with, with my

children or my father or my family, it's, it's healing for, for anybody who gets to see

themselves or hear themselves in what we talk about.

Right.

Absolutely.

And I mean, in the way that, you know, you losing your dad at such a young age, how

that just changed the trajectory of your life.

And for so many years, you lived with that.

And then to find out what was at 35 years later that he actually died by suicide and losing

him all over again, I mean, that would just, I don't even know.

It's, it's definitely been an experience.

It's, it's just nothing you ever expect.

I mean, you lose someone and you never expect that you're going to have to lose them and

grieve them all over again and certainly not in the way that I did.

But like you, we make choices.

We make choices and, and I feel like you and I have made a very intentional choice to

get out there and, and talk about what we've dealt with and talk about how awful it's been

at times and debilitating and how we've been isolated or depressed or all the things that

you and I have, have been through because of what we've gone through.

And okay, we've made that conscious choice to sit here and talk about it.

And, and we do that because we have a story to share.

In my own experience, telling stories now or at least my own for so many years, I don't

think I've ever found anything that has quite the healing power that storytelling has and

sharing lived experience has because that's how people see themselves in other people

and realize they're not alone and you know, I'm not the only one who's ever gone through

all the things, for instance, that you've gone through that I've gone through and well,

how did you do it?

How did, how did you navigate it?

I've got you to the other side of all that grief and, and that's what we do and, and you

know, this is not to say anything negative about anyone who chooses not to share like that's

your choice.

We're, we're just choosing to share as much like you said before for everyone else and

for ourselves, but this, this is actually a good moment to recap episode five, which

was about gratitude and grief like you and I together have lost eight people we love

to suicide, just the two of us.

So we have had an enormous amount of grief in our life, but we sit here with an incredible

amount of gratitude, you know, and we talked about that.

Absolutely.

I mean, just talk about being grateful for all the little things and the time that I spend

with my children, I mean, they had a snow day today and so they didn't go to school.

And we, we played and laughed and George was, it's often strange to work for, and, and

we were hooting and hollering and laughing and having fun for while we were, I was taking

a break from unpacking.

And I mean, it's just those, and I, for me, I go, I hope that's a core memory for my

kids because that was, that was for me.

And I hope they look back and their members, but it's when I think about everybody that

I've lost and the memories that they didn't get to make with their own children because,

you know, five of my brothers of the five, only one of them had their own had children.

And so by living long, you know, living my life and with my children and George and everything

I'm honoring them and, and especially considering that three of the five died at 28 years old,

the other two were in their early 40s.

And so every day that I am alive is, is just a, a way to attribute.

Yeah, to them and to the life that they didn't get to live to the fullest.

Yeah.

I love that.

So, all right, that was episode five, episode six.

We shifted gears again and we jumped kind of right back into another part of your story,

which was domestic abuse and surviving that.

And you know, you were, you were really, really open and honest and raw about what you dealt

with at home when you were a kid.

And you said it a few minutes ago about how everyone in your family was just expected

to like the, like the Netflix series says, keep sweet, pray and obey.

And, and if you didn't, I mean, things got physical and, and that was your childhood.

Right. There was, I mean, there was fights among moms.

There was fights among the siblings, you know, regular beatings from my, our parents,

my dad was really hard on the older kids.

You never laid a hand on me, you know, but just the overall abuse that occurred on the

regular and, you know, again, I've had cousins reach out to me and say the same thing happened

to us.

And we all thought we were so alone in that.

And thank you for letting me know that we were not alone, that we were not crazy thinking

that getting beat the shit out of every, almost every day was normal.

And you know, I have cousins that I've never even met that have connected with me on social

media to tell me what they experienced.

And it breaks my heart, it breaks my heart in so many ways that that kind of abuse was

occurring in so many different homes within our community.

Yeah.

All optics.

Nobody wants to talk about it.

Everybody has to pretend that they're living this idyllic little life, but everybody's

suffering behind closed doors.

I mean, that's a, it's a really horrible way to live, especially for a child.

The wives are suffering trying to live this bullshit principle in the jealousy and the,

you know, control that comes with that and then the children and it's just a never ending

cycle of it.

And I just reached a point where I couldn't do it anymore.

I am, I'm so done living in a life where we're, we're not talking about it because that,

how do we, that's the only way I know to change this.

Uh-huh.

Just talk about it.

That's right.

That's right.

The more you give other people permission to talk, the more they talk.

And that's, it's a domino effect in a good way, in a good way.

So after that, believe it or not, it was the holidays.

And we started talking about holiday expectations.

That was, that was episode seven, talked about, you know, everything having to, to be magical

and that pressure and that expectation and what if we don't feel festive?

You and I talked a lot about that because you and I were kind of struggling in different

ways with the idea of just kind of lowering the bar because it was too high.

Everything had to be just so and you had to fake it till you make it.

And, and for what, you know, just, just to, to create the illusion of something festive

when nobody's feeling festive.

So I mean, to me, that was, that was an important conversation because I really resonated with

that one.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, I know when the kids are younger, you want to make it magical.

And so there is that holiday pressure when your kids, both parents, when the kids are small,

you know, and then for me, as the older the kids have gotten, I've gotten more real

with them and just been more honest about things and, and I just have reached a point

in my life where I can no longer pretend.

It makes me physically and emotionally unwell if I have to pretend like everything is

okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I know what you mean.

And I feel the same way.

And again, it's optics.

It's, it, we shouldn't have to live in a world where we're pretending.

And I think that, that was actually for me one of the more powerful conversations of this

season because we were all right in the thick of doing that.

And that conversation was a good reminder for me to knock that shit off and stop doing

it.

It's happened right now.

It's happened right now.

So okay, after that, you, this episode still blows my mind, episode eight.

When you talked in like in depth about your life in the FLDS polygamy cult and what it

was like with all the control and the rules and the expectations and what I think what

really stuck out to me in that conversation was how you kind of alluded to it a minute

ago.

How normal it felt to everybody who you said was living in that community with you that

it was just normal, just to, you know, you don't even realize you're surviving something

until you're out of it.

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I didn't know, I didn't even know it was a cult until we were out of it, which we left

when I was in 97 when I was 12 years old.

I had absolutely, for years, did not even know that it was a cult and we got out of it

before shit got really bad with Warren taking over.

We got out just in the nick of time and I'm so very grateful for that.

And I think too, you know, the trajectory of my, as my older siblings, I'm smack dab

in the middle, number 13 of 20 and the vast majority of my older siblings, one by one,

were leaving the church.

And I think my dad realized that if, and he didn't want to lose his children, that was

the number one thing about my dad is he absolutely loved and adored his children.

And he knew if he stayed, he would lose the vast majority of his children.

And he wasn't willing to let us go.

And I think my parents very much for having the courage to step away from a life that

was generational, that was all that they knew, all sense of community, that was our family,

that was our cousins, that was everything that we had to nothing.

Yeah.

And having to build our lives from the ground up.

Yeah, that was it.

That's, you know, that was a watershed moment for your family where everything changed,

where they just cut loose of everything, like you said, that was not just what your

family knew, but it was this generational pattern.

And you know, you're living inside this bubble.

So no one, no one really understands, certainly none of your siblings understood the reality

of what you were living in.

So, you know, like you said, thankfully your parents got out when they did, yeah.

So then after that conversation, it was thinking about the holidays in a different way.

You and I didn't want to just have the same conversation about holiday expectations.

We wanted to talk about it from the financial point of view, because we each have two kids.

And we know what prepping for holidays, celebrating holidays, buying gifts for holiday,

like all of that financial stress is so unbelievably heavy and it's so real.

But we talked about it all.

We talked about like the guilt, the debt, the that pressure to make sure, you know, all

the gifts are either under the tree or in the house and I think it, for me, it felt kind

of freeing just to kind of call it out and be like, that's bullshit that we have to make

ourselves poor to, you know, just to satisfy some expectation of what a holiday should

be.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Kids in the long run, do they remember the gifts?

No, they don't.

It's the experiences of it and making a damn mess on Christmas Eve, making sugar cookies

it.

You know, because I don't know why they want to make sugar cookies, but those buckers

are involved.

I know they are.

I know they are.

But you know what, you talk about core memories, so but that's the core memory.

It's, you know, it's not, it's not the video game that they wanted.

Maybe it is for a few minutes, but it's not, that's not the thing that lasts, you know,

right?

I remember it was a story from that, from that episode you talked about, like running

around outside and banging on pots and pans.

Was that for years?

Oh, yes.

When I was a kid.

Yes, we did that.

Oh, we got pots and pans and metal spoons and things like that.

We would, you know, because we wanted to celebrate, but we had to stay within our little

call.

I know.

I know because you were in a cult.

Honey, I'm so sorry.

And I want to celebrate.

So we get pots and pans and go out there and bang those things and because we didn't

have fireworks.

I mean, we could have had fireworks, but that was just our way of celebrating.

And I, I think what did I do for New Year's this year?

Oh, I did a four and a half hour TikTok live, but what a, what a way to spend the New

Year.

Wow.

For New Year's Eve.

And I even brought, I stayed on.

I started at 10 p.m.

I stayed on and we, I came downstairs for like two minutes before the ball dropped.

And I, because I don't show my kids on social media.

So I aimed my phone on a live at the screen, the TV screen to watch the ball drop.

We, yeah, you know, did the thing, kisses and all that things and the kids went to bed

and I went on with being on live for another two and a half hours.

And, you know, again, I've gotten to this point where, yes, it is about the children

but as, when your kids are young, you get lost in motherhood.

Oh, for sure, you're, you're, it, for me, I just was so fully devoted to my kids, especially

because George traveled so much for the first seven years.

And it was the same way for me.

Dave traveled a ton internationally, oh, yeah, he was out of the country.

He was out of the country more than he was in the country back in the early days.

Yeah.

I felt like a single mom.

Yeah.

Oh, definitely.

Most definitely.

We talk about that all the time.

Yeah.

And so as you get older and the kids get more independent and you're like, oh, is it, can,

can I have me now?

Mm-hmm.

This is time for me.

Now your me time is four hour long TikTok lives on New Year's Eve.

I love that for you.

It was so much fun.

It was, I mean, we still, I have people that were there with a majority of that time

still talking about how much fun that night was.

That's great.

I love that.

So we kind of kept the parenthood theme going after the first of the year.

And we talked about, and again, we talked about parenthood from a different angle.

We talked about, in episode 11, parenthood while we're grieving, which is a really unique

take on what it's like to be a mom or a dad when you're struggling with grief because

it's a quiet struggle, especially when you have younger kids.

You don't necessarily want to share with them exactly, or maybe you can't even share

with them what exactly is going on and why you're so sad.

You know, your heart is heavy all the time, but nobody can see that part.

So you kind of have to wear two different masks and it's hard.

And I know that for me, I think may be my most powerful conversation of this year because

I was dealing with that while we were recording.

We just lost my mother-in-law just a couple of weeks ago and things were really in the

thick of it.

I remember I recorded that episode with you from Florida and it was like anticipatory

grief was everywhere because things were not good and trying to navigate that with

my own two adult children who had never really lost anyone that close to them.

They were very fortunate up to now and the first loss they ever really had that was

significant in their lives was their grandmother who they're so close to.

So it was hard.

It was hard.

To me, that was just a powerful conversation.

I'm grateful that your girls got to be adults in their 20s with their first major experience

with grief.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, they both are very well aware of the fact that it's very unusual.

I mean, I remember when I found out the truth about my dad's suicide, my girls were

like 10 and 13.

They were young and I didn't tell them for the first few years because I was so completely

upside down and twisted with all this grief and being a survivor all of a sudden and

not knowing what to do.

I didn't share that with them right away.

I didn't even know what I was dealing with.

I didn't even know how to process any of it.

I certainly couldn't lay it on them.

But then when they were old enough, I felt like they were old enough a few years later,

we had the conversation and our kids surprised us.

You and I have talked a lot about that because I know your kids have surprised you and might

have surprised me with different things that we may not think they're ready for.

And then when we have the right kind of conversation, they are ready for it and it surprises us.

Is there more ready than we think?

Yeah.

I mean, my kids are 10 and 12 but have been dealing with suicide for the last three

years.

Yeah.

They didn't know about clean and David in the early 2000s, so having to tell them about

Corey and then, oh, by the way, you've had two other uncles, you know, that opened up

a whole other can of worms that I had to share with them and try to, and with each loss

as you know, suicide loss in particular, it reopens a previous wound.

Oh, sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it just feels like a never ending gaping wound that you're dealing with.

Yeah.

I mean, they never fully close.

That's the unfortunate thing.

You know, I think they stop gushing, I guess, is the best way to say it, but they never

really close.

So that led us to episode 12.

And that was burnout after the holidays and you and I were talking before we hit record

that we feel like we're still kind of in that place right now.

I loved how validating that episode was because we talked a lot about kind of that weird

crash when everything ends because there's such this massive build up from like Halloween,

Thanksgiving, holidays, New Year's, and then all of a sudden it's this expectation that

you just, you just pop into the New Year and you're fully engaged and fully refreshed

and fully ready to go.

And nobody's ready to go.

Yeah.

I can't, everybody, what's your New Year's resolution?

I'm like, I have no, no, no.

We're done.

I love you.

You're just like, I'm not having it right, right?

No, you said something.

I loved what you said.

I remember in this episode, you talked about instead of having a resolution, you had

a word.

Do you remember what your word was?

Rise.

Yes.

I think mine was impact.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

I think that's serving us well so far.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

So far so good.

Now that we're like getting toward the early parts of February, which I can't believe.

So all right.

So then we had episode 13 when joy feels complicated.

And this one kind of surprised me a little bit, the way that it resonated with me because

after trauma, joy can feel so unbelievably scary and people don't know how to approach

it.

And I feel like that whole episode was one just big, giant validation, or at least it

was for me, that joy doesn't have to be fireworks.

It doesn't have to be like crazy celebration.

It could just be kind of allowing yourself to be content even when you're sad or you've

had trauma or you're grieving.

And I think a lot of the feedback that we got from that episode was that people appreciated

having permission to just acknowledge that it's complicated to be happy after you're

in a bad place.

And all the emotions that come along with you're trying to live your life while you're

carrying this big, heavy boulder of grief.

And you laugh or you giggle or you smile and you feel that emotion and then also it's

coupled with the guilt of it.

And I can't tell you how many times I was at my kids games wanting so badly to be fully

engaged and it took every fiber of my being to just be there.

And just physically being present was all that I had the energy for, especially after losing

four family members in five months.

I felt so guilty because I wanted to be excited for my children but I physically could not

do it.

And you know what?

That's a good reminder.

I think that sometimes showing up just means just maybe physically being there in whatever

way we can be.

We don't necessarily have to be, you know, have pom-poms and cheerleading.

And maybe it's just sitting in the stands, maybe you don't have the energy to be smiling

and yelling and screaming and whistling and maybe you're just there.

And it needs to be, it needs to be that and it needs to be okay.

And that was my takeaway from that conversation and I actually really loved that conversation.

And I think my second favorite conversation was the one that we had last week that I've

still been thinking a lot about because you and I talked a lot about this offline too.

And this was episode 14 and it was grieving the life that you thought you'd have.

And I have gotten so many wild comments about that from people who are like, I can't

believe you guys are talking about this because I feel like I can't even acknowledge being

sad over not getting the job I wanted or, you know, I lost a friendship or it's not

all about grief attached to losing someone.

We can grieve expectations.

We can grieve like you have, you have a list of things that maybe you thought would turn

out differently and so did I and in your life and it doesn't mean that you don't appreciate

the life you have now.

It doesn't mean that, you know, you're not grateful.

It just means that you're holding space for the stuff that didn't turn out the way you

wanted that you have the right to be sad about.

Right.

Grief is not about the death of a person only.

It is the complicated grieving the death of a dream, a friendship, a job, a marriage,

so many different situations because it didn't pan out yet.

I mean, opening the conversation of grief up into a broader aspect of, oh, wow, I can

actually be sad about that.

I can be sad about the fact that the last 10 years felt like a waste because we moved

so many times or in your situation with your daughter moving away to Japan and having

that distance for you and not having her just right down the street from you and how

hard that has been for you.

Yeah.

But grieving the life that you dreamed about for so many years and it's non-existent and

that's okay.

It is.

And I've given myself a lot of permission lately to grieve that one thing in particular.

And it's not like I ever expected my daughters to live nearby me.

Like we've always encouraged our kids, always see the world, be part of the world, experience

it every chance you get wherever you decide you feel like you belong is where you should

be.

You just never really think that they're going to take that and run all the way to Japan

with it.

You know, maybe East Coast to West Coast or Midwest or, you know, who knows.

But I mean, you know, the reality is that I see my daughter twice a year.

And we are such, I mean, you know, we are such an incredibly close family unit.

We talk every day, but it's different.

And I've never, I guess I've never until very recently really acknowledged the fact that

I'm actually actively grieving over the fact that I can count on half a hand the amount

of times I get to physically be with my child every year.

And it's sad.

And it really is sad, but I'm also glad that we talked about it because it really, that

was a really helpful episode for me because it just kind of validated things and put things

in perspective for me personally.

So thanks for being on the other end of the mic for that one.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

And I got a lot out of it because, you know, and hearing you talk about like how

you go grocery shopping on the weekends with your daughter and you go to brunch, it

was her and her spouse and your husband.

And you guys do that every single weekend.

And so that opened up, you know, the grief that I feel in the loss of the relationship

with my mother and realizing I will never have that, you know, and I've realized that

for a long time, but it doesn't change the fact when I hear about those stories.

And I'm so grateful that you have those experiences, but also it brings up in me that I will

never have that.

And it's hard.

It is really, really hard for me.

I know it is.

I know it is.

And it is interesting, though, how helpful, I can only speak for myself.

It's interesting to me how helpful it is when we vocalize that.

I think it's just kind of putting it out in the air because there's someone who's hearing

this conversation who maybe also doesn't have the relationship that they wanted to have

with their child or with their parent or with a sibling.

And we're out there saying we get it, we get it, we've experienced it.

We understand how that feels.

It sucks.

We wish it weren't that way.

But then you, you also at the same time can acknowledge, wow, I have an amazing husband

and I have two incredible children.

I have a community of chosen friends in my like chosen family in my life who have already

proven themselves to be far more engaged and supportive and loving than most families

will ever be.

So there's a given a get, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

And now here we are.

Now here we are 39 minutes later recapping three months worth of conversations and experiences.

And I just love that we've had this time and I hope that people can take away whenever

they need to take away to just feel better, to feel less alone, to feel more supported.

And we're coming back, we're coming back for season four.

And you and I have talked a lot about what we want that to look like.

We still want to bring in new voices and that's a goal for us this, this season, you and

I between you moving and us having a family crisis in my family that took away a lot of

time.

I was barely home this winter.

You know, you and I are giving ourselves a little bit of grace to not have to lay everything

out perfectly right, you know, right from the jump in episode one of season four.

So we're, we've got our plans and we've got our, our episode calendar and it's a, it's

a rich one.

It's an exciting one and we're going to pop in a lot of surprises.

Do you, do you want to mention that people can find us more actively on other social media

sites?

Or shall I?

You go.

I would love to.

I'm doing like live events, TikTok live, Instagram, like all the, the live things.

And then it'll open it up for more interactive engagements to have you guys ask us questions

right there on the spot.

Things like that.

If you've never experienced a live social media interaction, it is absolutely amazing.

I highly, highly recommend.

In fact, every Monday night on TikTok, I do mental health Mondays and I kick a specific

topic.

And I, you know, share my own personal experience with that, you know, and it's absolutely amazing.

I have people that talk about it in other lives, TikTok lives.

Oh my gosh, you got to kind of check out Natasha's Monday nights.

I'd love to have you there.

My handle is Natasha J. Layton on all my socials.

If you ever want to check it out on Monday nights at 9.30 Eastern time.

And I'm going to say I'm, I am really, really, really excited about doing this with you

because I have been, well, you know, I'm creeping on your TikTok, because I'm always there

and always popping in.

But you, in the same way that you kind of just took the mic and ran with it when we started

doing this together, you did the same exact thing with your platform on TikTok and have

just created such an unbelievably safe and powerful platform where people can come and people

can be vulnerable and where you're vulnerable and where people can find connection and community.

And it is absolutely beautiful, not just what you're doing, but how you're doing it.

So I, you know, I'm kind of a little TikTok baby and you and I joke about that all the time,

because I have, you know, like my 400 followers or whatever it is.

And you have like 8 billion at this point.

Actually, I just hit a big milestone.

You did, it was, you hit 10,000 followers, didn't you?

Yesterday, yesterday, I've been watching and I missed it.

I really had been watching, watching and figuring it was going to be today or tomorrow or yesterday.

So, and that's, and that's a big deal.

That's a really big deal.

And it's because you've been so consistent and because of the content that you're creating.

And so I'm excited because when I'm on TikTok, I'm on as the help hub,

which is my mental health resources platform.

And Natasha, you're, you're on as you and then you and I both share the survivor's podcast,

TikTok account as well.

So we're going to be doing lives all over the place, all over TikTok on all of those platforms.

But they're just where we're going to start doing things differently in a way that hopefully

we'll get more people involved in the conversation in real time.

And that's the whole point.

Looking ahead, season four, I'm just excited for all of it.

That's all I have to say.

I'm just glad that we get to do it together.

I'm glad that we get to keep surviving together.

You and I and everybody else is part of this community.

Absolutely.

I am so very grateful for each and every one of you that is here and that listens.

And for my dearest sweet friend, Lisa,

so onward to season four.

We'll see you guys next week.

Keep surviving.

Have a good one.

Thanks so much for listening and for being part of the survivor's community.

No matter where you are in your story, you're not alone and you're definitely not broken.

Healing takes time and it looks different for everyone.

The fact that you're still here and still trying means you're already doing the hard work.

If something in today's conversation resonated with you,

please share it with someone who might need to hear it too.

That's how we keep these conversations going and remind each other that there's always hope.

And if you or someone you know is struggling, please remember,

help is always out there.

You can call or text 988 anytime to reach a train crisis counselor like me.

And for more mental health resources, tools, treatment options and content to support your mental health,

visit thehelpub.co.

We're so grateful you're part of the survivor's family and we'll be back next week with

another honest conversation about life after the hardest things.

Until then, take care of yourself and your people and keep surviving.