Season 4 Episode 1 Dr. Eliza Cortes Bast - Belonging and Latinx Heritage Month 2022

Dr. Eliza Cortes Bast is a fierce and honest follower of Jesus. She is a pastor and denominational executive, dedicated to helping churches think missionally. She lives into her passion by connecting people, advocating for the community, and helping organizations think strategically so they can be healthy, vibrant, and sustainable. Eliza lives in Michigan with her patient and handsome husband EJ, and their two boys. Her loves include her home country Puerto Rico, her interracial marriage, a good steak, salsa dancing, writing, empowering emerging leaders, making the impossible possible, Diet Coke, and mentoring. She is not a big fan of anger without action, generalizations, basketball, and saying you can’t live without coffee. She believes you can because she believes in you.

Featured here on RED TENT LIVING

AboutAbout

My greatest joy is helping people & teams lean into what is possible, and develop the processes, metrics, and structure to help get them there!

 

Helping develop the natural talent of teams and optimize outcomes & opportunities to reach strategic goals is my sweet spot. I love interacting with clients and teams, bringing energy and enthusiasm, as well as accountability and quality management, to every setting I serve. I love training and facilitation, creating both consensus and curiosity around your table. I am skilled in intercultural competency, and have worked with diverse teams in multiple contexts to create cohesion and movement.

 

I have built a career and identity that revolves around nurturing organizational vibrancy. Working with rural and urban agencies, I have provided dedicated guidance in curriculum writing, program and process design, and talent development and management.

 

I have served a variety of for-profit and not-for-profit organizations around the country, including academic and religious institutions and parachurch organizations. From the podium to the pulpit, I have enjoyed engaging audiences with stories of impact, leadership development, and my years of nonprofit and ministry experience. I have authored blogs and articles, and have spoken at national and local conferences and workshops around Latina identity, empowering leadership, emerging young leadership, and more.

 

My passions include creating communities of purpose and excellence - where together, people are appropriately empowered in their strengths. I excel at helping teams identify strengths and performance gaps, identifying key issues and strategies quickly, and helping teams discover how to resolve problems and innovate for the future. I am also an adjunct professor, teaching at the intersection of non-profit work, leadership, talent management, and ministry.

 

Gallup Certified Strengths Coach

Strengths: Strategic, Maximizer, Command, Activator, and Responsibility.

Enneagram: 8w9

DiSC: Di (The Seeker: action, results, enthusiasm)

MBTI (Myers Briggs): ENTJ

 

Transcript of Podcast:

Dr. Bast: 

I would just wonder, Danielle, and I know you and I talked about this a little bit before, I think there's a part where, um, I think just kind of baked into the American expression of Latin culture is the sense of just like, um, indebtedness, um, and deep gratitude. And so there's always the inclination of just, um, of just that, the weight of that in some ways. Like the container of that, you know, that you're a guest, that you're always a guest in someone else's space. And so I think there's a, there's inside of that, or ingrained inside of that is a, is a sense of just, well, I'm so grateful for what I have that I don't wanna disrupt it for somebody else, or I don't wanna, I don't wanna disrupt the host, you know? And so I still wrestle with that because I think, I think there's a part of it that the older I get the truer that feels  

 

Danielle: Hmm. Which part that you don't wanna disrupt or that you're a guest or  Yeah. That, um, the idea that, you know, what does it look like to not be a guest anymore? That sense of like, yeah. It's like we are guests and, and, and what does ownership, real ownership and agency look like?  Yeah. As you were talking about it, I was thinking about like how like a broader generalization of culture for us, I think is this idea of hospitality. Mm-hmm. and that we're already always welcoming, which, you know, I think probably goes back centuries.  

 

Yep.  

 

Dr. Bast: Centuries. So in that welcoming process, because other cultures may have a different intention, we often welcome to the point where we don't exist anymore, or we're moved out of our own space.  

 

Yeah. Well, and I would say too, you know, I mean that's the part, that's the part where we are distinctly like the east meeting the west, you know, as there's a sense of that we really bring that eastern, um, framing with us forward is that, you know, when we migrated out, we never lost that sense of hospitality and what the indebtedness around the, the hospitality means for us as a community, what I offer others Yeah. And what I expect others to offer me. And so I think there's, uh, you know, but again, that's hard. What do you do when you feel like a perpetual guest?  And I don't like it that you said it like that, cuz it feels true and it feels really annoying. . Yeah. And, and again, you know, we talked about this a little bit before we got rolling, but talk to me about like, why you decided to make the Instagram post with the picture of your legs on the airplane.  Well, the it's for, for my two previous professional roles, I've, I've just spent a lot of time in airplanes and I've spent a lot of time, um, traveling. And there's, there's a part as I wrestled in my own issues about like, body and how much space, you know, I take up or how much space I embody. I just realized that there's probably no place that, that feels more true than being on an airplane. Like, there's this part of just, if I'm, if I'm a good citizen, if I'm sitting next to somebody, I'm making sure I'm only taking my space. You know, and I'm, I'm wrestling out with elbows and the arms and things like that. You know, I just wanna make sure that I'm doing right by the person next to me by, by keeping and holding my own space and not encouraging on theirs.  

And then there's just been this interesting shift that I recognize that, um, I tend this experience that more with women, Like when we sit on the plane, we all kind of find ways to instinctively shrink. Or I will even hear women apologize, you know, like, Oh, I'm so sorry. You know, And, and so it's been this sense of like, okay, well, well that's maybe just, maybe it's embodied and gender, you know, that's just a sense of like, let me keep and hold my own space. However, um, it's been interesting for me to watch, um, from an anthropological sense of just some of the, the men that I've encountered sitting, and they're not bound in the same way, or not maybe mindful in the same way, where they feel like they don't have to, um, shrink and be small and to fit in their own space.  

But the sense of like, well, I have to spread out and I need to spread out. You know, I need to, And I just, and I laugh in that because, and identifying their own physical need, um, they've been able to justify like, the ability to take my seat and their seat, you know, like . So trying to figure that out, like, ok, well this feels odd. And then in the middle of that saying, Well, what about, you know, I don't wanna show up in the same space. Cause I feel like that's inhospitable. You know, I would never think to take my seat and someone else's seat, you know, as a means of, because I have a need. And I, I feel that my need is unmet, but the sense of feeling like I can't push back either because well, he needs it, the person next to me needs it. And so I have to be smaller. And I'm like, that's so disgusting, . Mm-hmm. There's something that, that's apparently gross.  

Danielle: And that also feels like a, that too feels like an easier entry point to talk about, like airplane spacing, then to talk about how that like actively happens as, as a Latina, as a Afro-Latina, as a Puerto Rican woman in spaces of leadership.  

Dr. Bast: Yes. Yes. And I would say, and so really walking into that is this is this sense of, um, you know, how do I, how do I feel the space but not be too much? How do I like enter in and be full of myself, but not to defend, you know, all these things where there's like the caveat that cuts underneath it that says that, you know, it's that internal checklist that I feel a lot of us experience, um, because we wanna be invited back. And again, that's the difference between like a guest and a house member, right? Is that a guest is always mindful that the door can always be closed. You know, there's an entry point and exit point. There's a, a clock time in and a clock time out. Um, but ownership of the house means that I belong, you know, the house is mine. And so, um, access to the things will, you know, I have equal access to things with other people.  

Danielle: Yeah. So we think about it like perpetual guests then where, like, where do you find rest? Like you specifically?  

Dr. Bast: That is a really good question. You know, and I know this is gonna sound weird, but I think that one of the places that I probably find the most rest is on a stage when I'm speaking. And I think because at that point, like the, um, you know, the horses out of the gate, that point, I can, I'm wildly unpredictable to people, you know, But I, I would say I feel the most unfettered. You know, I can move, I can walk, I can, you know, I'm, I'm expressing what's on my mind in the way that makes sense to me, but also translates to other people. And I can, I can take and own and own that space, and there's a part where I think I could, I'm able to sink into who I really am, um, and be able to give a piece of that and to receive a piece of that back from people who are, who are on the stage. I would say that that feels almost like my most authentic space. And in that, because I can, I can fully be myself. I feel like I can best rest there.  

Danielle: So when you think about like a broader sense of maybe even family or culture, do you have spaces where you find rest there as well? Or where you belong?  

Dr. Bast: Yeah, I would say, uh, you know what, what feels probably the most true for me is, is that my family really provides that for me.  I'm really grateful that the family has given me the most space to be able to do that and to do that completely.  

Danielle: now I'm just, I'm thinking about how you talk about the caveats and how, you know, you use the word wild to describe when you're in your, you're in your space or, or belonging. And, you know, wild has so many meanings in our culture. And, and I have one like interpretation of what that might mean. Like from our culture, I'm imagining alive by vivacious, um, able to laugh, able to cry, able to communicate. And yet I know, I also know that there's this other dominant lens that views that wild as also threatening.  

Dr. Bast: Yep. I, um, I was sharing also this weekend, you know, that there's a part where I have, um, you know, when I, when I felt like the least my authentic self when I felt like I was, I was, I mean, I'm honestly just living outside of my intended design, you know, and I say that, you know, from a perspective of faith, but I was living outside of the design and I feel like God had designed me. And um, and I remember just praying and just saying like, what is wrong with me? And just feeling like the word domesticated. Like I felt that in my soul and, and that word I'm sure feels so dainty for some people and feels like so proper and appropriate, appropriate for some people. And for me, I felt sick to my stomach. I could feel it in the pit of my stomach, like, oh my gosh.  

Like there was a part of me that I had, um, you know, and very similarly I saw it as like running hard and running fast and by, you know, being vivacious and, and you know, running, running with everything inside of me at full speed towards what I wanted. And then at the same time having space and play and, and being with others. And I had like diminished myself into the small tiny pocket of being, um, because all of that had had disrupted and disturbed the system so hard mm-hmm. . And so I remember just feeling that so clearly, like the word domesticated and just feeling like, just crushed because I had allowed people to do that. To me, that was a choice. Mm-hmm. , um, that I had allowed in my own life. And, and just kind of the, that internal vow to never let that happen again.  

Yeah. I think of, you know, when I think of perpetual guests and domesticated, I mean, it has like literal meaning for the way, you know, I'm thinking of Latinas are viewed like house like majority housekeepers or cleaning your hotel or like the, the stereotypical roles like down to, I think of events I've gone to at local schools where it's like all the Mexican families, at least in my community are here. Everybody else is over here. And then there's a few black folks over here. So  

Yeah. And, and that's so heartbreaking.  Yeah. It's heartbreaking to me. That's heartbreaking. But there's a part where it's like, I think people need, you know, especially going into those spaces and even going into some places where it's dominant culture spaces, like even just the idea being able to show fully as yourself, you know, is I wanna gingerly walk in with my tribe, you know, my squad because it's been so painful to do that on your own or, um, Yeah. The temptation, that code switch is so bad. Or even the sense of, of I've been punished when I've done that before  

Danielle: Yeah. So when you cl like there's the bind, right? If you're the guest and you're the domesticated guest, you can fit in. Even at that point though, I think what I hear you saying is the door could slam at any moment and you could be shut out. But if you don't become the domesticated vet guest and you show up as you are, then you're also othered or walled off from access.  

Yep. It's really the lose lose of that  Man that is sad.  

Dr. Bast: Well, so here it is, it's sad if you don't own the house. Like this is the hard part is that it's, it's the sense of like, it's, you know, and again, I would hope that people coming into my house would understand the house rules. That there's, there are, uh, because of my responsibility to ownership, there are things that I set the ground rules for that not only keep my house in order, but keep, you know, keep it a safe place for other guests. The challenge becomes is, is really who owns the social house, You know, because there's a part where there's a lot of space that can be made. You know, there are behaviors that are allowed in my house because of who we are and how we do life, um, and what our tolerance is for disruption. Um, what our tolerance is for people to show by is their full selves, because we want people to, to feel that way when they come in our house.  

And that's the beauty of ownership. When people are robbed of the opportunity, ability for ownership, and you are forever at the indebtedness of the house owner, you are forever at the mercy of the person who sets the, who sets the guest rules. And I think that is the true challenge is that because then there's this, um, this very definitive sense of like a right way to host and wrong way to host. Like, if a house is appropriate, it looks like this, and then the house owner gets to decide. And so what happens when you go into that space and you're like, Well, this isn't, this isn't correct. Like, this is not how my people would show up at a house, but, and then, but the house owner gets to say the house owner is Right. And so it's a very, it's a very tricky space. And, and for me, as I think about the future of what I would see Latinos and Latinas and, and for anybody who sits in a marginalized space, is that there would be more space for them to be house owners instead of just  

Danielle: Yeah. And I think there's a sense of, in that space of having your house, then it's, there's a more, um, I don't wanna say pure, but a more authentic way to offer hospitality where there's not the demand or it's not the hospitality isn't a down payment.  

Dr. Bast: Exactly. Well then it's transactional. Right? It's right.  

Danielle: Right. Where it feels like that sense of hospitality we offer, I'm not saying it's always transactional, but, uh, I even think of like, when we've had certain people over to our house, the, the coaching of the children, , you're gonna need to say, hi, you're gonna need to do this. You need to, you know, X, y, z versus, you know, when we have other friends over, there's still some coaching, Right. Because there's etiquette and, and you know, uh, things we wanna do as ge as hosts, but there's also the freedom to be themselves.  

Dr. Bast: Yep. Yep. And that's, I think that is critical because I think for some people the, the pushback is like, well, there's no etiquette and you can't confuse hospitality and etiquette for the same thing. You can't confuse being a guest with etiquette for the same thing. Um, cause it's possible to be very polite and still be horribly unw. And part of the etiquette is, is is not just about how to behave so everybody feels comfortable, but how to behave in such a way where everybody feels welcome.  

Danielle: Right. Right. And I mean, that can happen to any of our communities too.  

Dr. Bast: Absolutely. Absolutely.  

Danielle: I mean, like, we live in dominant culture norms, like you're stating, but any one of us can adjust some of those values and then pass them on to our kids, or sometimes I think it's unconscious and sometimes it's intentional for survival too.  

Dr. Bast: Yes, exactly. Well, and we see that a lot, you know, um, you know, I would say in like the maybe some of the more older models of like missionary training, you know, that there'd be a sensibility around like, Okay, this is how you behave. This is how, if you're going into this space, this is the language that they speak. These are the words they use. These are the dishes that they eat. And it's hard because in that same kind of like how to be most effective in those spaces, um, we have, um, willingly put those on our kids and on the next generation, because we do, I mean, there's that sense of urgency. We want you to not only survive here, but thrive here. And so this, this is the language, this is the way you have to do things. And I hope we're on the cusp of, of, of a new day where that's decided by a collective and not necessarily decided by an individual  

Danielle: Yeah. It reminds me of the story. We are down in Mexico for a few weeks this summer, and, uh, we hadn't been to Guadalajara for like over eight years and we're down there. And so my daughter's 15, so she hadn't been there since she was like six or seven, and she was running around, and she came up to me and she's like, Mom, she's like, I have a question for her. I was like, Oh, yeah, sure. She's like, Why do I feel like I belong here more than anywhere else I am? And I was like, and she's like, But I've only been here, you know, a couple times in my life. And I was just like, Well, I, you know, like I have this scientific psychological lens, like it's in your DNA and blah, blah, blah. But really it's a sense of belonging, a sense of she could show up as her whole self  

And see other people in her culture embodied in a way that felt, I think, resonated with her, although she didn't use that word. But the curiosity of like, why does this feel more like home?  

Dr. Bast: Exactly. Exactly. And that, I mean, and again, like that's for people who are just like, well, I mean, you know, the purists, you know, like go back home or go back to your own country. It's, it's not the locale, you know, it's the sense of, it's the sense of who I get to be and the sense of how other people are around me. And there's a part where it's, it's hard work to cultivate that when we're not in those spaces, like when we're in other locations. But I think it's worth fighting for because again, like to have her say that she feels like she can show up for her full self, you know, that that feels like home. You know, what does that mean then for, you know, how do you make home in Washington state? How do you make home and Florida? How do you make home, you know, in all those spaces?  Um, she's in Europe, you know, what does that look like? And so it's just kind of fighting, you know, it's like the ruthless, intentional fighting for home, you know? And especially for a d you know, a d spo of people, you know, there's a sense of like, okay, I would love to say, well, I'm a turtle and so my home is always with me. Right. Um, but I wanna be able to say, you know, I'm a tree that has seeds that drop, and everywhere those seeds drop, they can root and that can also be home.  

That's a powerful image because that is what dominant European Americans have been able to do.  Exactly. There's that. It's, it really is, it's a, it's a modern day event. Adventuring, you know, it's, it's that spirit of exploration that says, you know, I can plant my flag here and make space for myself mm-hmm. , you know, and, and claim space for myself. And, um, Yeah. And somewhere that died, you know, somewhere that died .  

Danielle: Right. And I also think it's because if you think about our people's, they actually did travel and migrate, and that was part of who they were, and part of like, moving and shifting. And so when you think about like a border that's just kinda set down on land or colonialism, which did all of this border mapping without regards to the tribal people or the immigration patterns. And, and so therefore, you know, we're in the midst of all these conflicts and, you know, shut the border and da, da da. Well, I mean, like, there's centuries of history of people moving  

Dr. Bast: Yep, exactly. Well, and again, being able to set the rules based on what you consider their experience to be. So, you know, I can call you, you know, an immigrant, you know, when you're really an refugee, you know, And so then I get to decide again, I own the house, so I get to decide because well, you're this class certification of guest  or you're illegal versus you're an asylum seeker.  

They the color of your skin.  

Country of origin, wherever the bus drops off.  

Danielle: Yeah. I don't know if you saw this, but I think there's a ship that came from Puerto Rico that's stranded at sea. Have you seen the news on that?  

No, I have not.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was in the news. And, and I think like it's been in a holding pattern to try to land, and I'm not sure, you know, why I didn't get into the article yet, but I'm not sure why this particular ship hasn't landed. I don't know who's on board, like what the politics of it are, but   you figure, you know, would that be acceptable if there were cars that were backed up, you know, and the border to Illinois.  

Dr. Bast: And that's the hard part is I think, like, remember that old like, planco game, like from, um, um, what was it, the prices, right? Where you'd like drop the coin in and it would just kind of figure its way and then like clunk it down into a bucket and did a bunch of pegs, you know? And it, I think, you know, part of the conversations have diminished down to that, you know, And just like wherever you land, like that's who you get to be now. And I think we've went a couple steps backwards in like placing people in these very definitive container. I think the chaos of the last two years has reverted us back to, to extreme labels to be able to navigate how we need to show up and navigate our own disappointment in people. And so there's a part where it's like, you know, you know, people are complex, people are people, you know, and the conversations are complex and there's a lot of like, pain and history I think that people are willing to talk about.  

But I, we, it's almost like we can't resist the urge to like categorize, because then, then I know how to show up. And there's a part where it's just like, if we just made space, I think it'd be a lot easier for people to say, There's a lot of gray here, and I, there's gray in my own space, and I'm willing to recognize the gray in your space to, to not like, be so quick to put a label on there, but to say, I'd rather have a conversation to get to know you as a human, Um, because that, that's the best deciding factor of whether, you know, you're gonna keep being a guest in my house, or you're gonna keep being a person I wanna like, journey with, or, you know, we share deeper intimacy you in our friendship because of that.  

Danielle: When you say like, the chaos of the last two years, and you say like, you feel like we might have gone backwards. Do you have a specific example you're thinking of or a story?  

Dr. Bast: Well, I'm actually thinking of just believe it or not, like some systems theory that most people for our brains, like when we're wired, when there's extreme chaos, that having like an enemy or having, even if you can't, if you can't look forward having an enemy, like your brain can, can set on that, right? And so it's easier for your brain to manage the chaos, you know, of what you're experiencing in the system. So a system will actually become less anxious if there's a common enemy. So it's this idea of like, everybody hating the lunch lady, you know, like everybody kind of cool out and there's like one bad guy. And, and so I think about that in, in, as people have navigated out of the chaos and, and there's no big bad guy, you know, the administration changes. And so you can't be, you're not as mad at one person, you know?  And so you need, we have to keep like, elevating villains because it's the only way we can manage our own anxiety. And so there's a part where it, it makes me nervous to see people who, who felt like there were collective things to talk about and, and believed in some of the both. And as we were navigating, um, especially things like quarantine have almost reverted back. You could feel like the rubber band snapped back to just having like smaller demons to, to villainize, um, because there's no like giant one demonn that they feel they can really center on.  

Danielle: Whew. So who do you think the current villains are now?  

Dr. Bast: Oh, you know, it's, it's, it feels murky. I don't know. And I think, I think that's it. Like the, the anxiety hasn't reached a fever pitch yet. I think we're back on the upswing of anxiety. Um, and so I'm curious, especially with pressures like inflation and, you know, even just our own federal system of like how states decide versus how the nation decides. Like right now, there's almost too many options. And I think, and I think the anxiety, my prediction is, is the closer we get to the next election cycle, we will see a fever pitch of anxiety and we'll see, we will see clear villains emerge.  

Danielle: I agree. I think, I think we saw that kind of escalation. And sometimes I think of, I thought of it like as an, like a violent orgasm, a vi, you know, when we had like buffalo and Irvine and Alde, like we had all these things happen and mostly in communities of color, and then, you know, then there's an uprising and an uproar, and then everything just kinda lowers pitch. And I do feel like we're in that. I, I do see, you know, like Rob DeSantis and, um, you know, and Greg Abbott, you know, with their focus on migrants crossing the border and shipping them all over the country, you know, quote unquote shipping them. I do see that our community is a target and likely could be an escalated target in the coming years. I'm not sure how it will play out, I'm praying about that, but just that sense of we don't belong.  

If you're the guest. And you know, that's so interesting that you say that because I think like, um, you know, for like the low hum of anxiety, I mean, most of us have that like low hum of anxiety that is generally in our life, you know, and it's, it's hard because it's so easy to exploit when there's a low hum to like, to put an, um, a title of a villain on something that is so nebulous and so big that nobody has enough language for it. Mm-hmm. . And so somebody publicly assigns language to it to say like, Oh, this is the problem. And people are like, Oh, good. Well, for my own anxiety. Yeah, exactly. That is the problem. And you're like, Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, like we live in complex system with complex people with a complex history, you know, like it's to say one person is a problem is exceptionally uced. And so there's a part of that, but it's like, but if you, if you are experiencing that low hum of anxiety in your system, you're gonna look when somebody gives you the language of a villain, if you're not aware enough, or even if you're just lazy enough to not do the work that resolves the anxiety for you  

Like, oh, yep, it's them mm-hmm. , and, and it's whoever the them is, you know, and if this becomes the new them or revisits is the new them, you know, then we'll, we'll see. We'll see people of color, especially brown people being responsible for everything from inflation to gas prices, even though we were just trying to, trying to get away from violence.  

Danielle: Right. And I don't think it's a mistake that the last couple election cycles have focused on our communities.  

Dr. Bast: Yeah. And I, you know, I'm glad to see like, at least like the overall recognition of, of how important, um, you know, our voter, the strength of our voting constituency is. And I think that's important. What makes me sad, and I don't think any any side is, is exempt from this, is that if all of a sudden the attention is honest, like, Oh, this is the new, you know, this is the new America or the new whatever, you know, and then all of a sudden things start coming out in Spanish, and I always am like, Where were you the other three years? You know, like, that's super fun. You're coming now ,  

It's super amazing to see you three years ago or helping us clean up in our communities or helping us like, or listening to our concerns or holding space for us to be able to inform. And so it's, it, um, that always, I mean that just the short answer is that always like, rubs me the wrong way that like always sticks in my cross super bad where I'm like, Oh, look, all of a sudden, you know, whoever, whoever the Spanish speaker is in the camp is like trotted out like a show pony. it's kind of, that comes back to the original thought. We've been noodling on this whole conversation of you're still the guest mm-hmm. kinda like, it's almost like how do you get this guest intoxicated enough they'll listen to you. Right. Like,  

That's a great way to put it. Yes, yes. And, and that's it. I mean, that, and that's the part what, when I think about the future and I think about the best way to empower people, it's being able to give them agency and ownership, you know, where they own the house. You know, like what does it look like for you to begin to own your own spaces and to, and to, to give new language for hospitality and to help be part of a community to reimagine hospitality and what that looks like.  

Danielle: Yeah. I think one thing that struck me about the Uvalde school shooting was that that community had asked for years for the building to be remodeled and for landscaping. And when none of the funding came through, it was the Latinos right there in that community that went in and landscaped that went in and updated the building. And it was like across town where it was nearly an all white school with plenty of funding, plenty of access to resources. So it, it wasn't lost on me that after all of this and the community investment that this mass shooting happened here. Right.  

Dr. Bast: Yep. And I think, you know, there's a part where I, I I agree with you, and then there's a part where I just, I wonder if there's, I, to me that feels, maybe that's the conversation for another day that almost feels like a whole pressure cooker of just, I mean, you see a lot of, like, you see a lot of brilliant and brave things that happen in that day, and you see a lot of like big misses and just mm-hmm. , you know, I mean, I was a gast watching that and watching, you know, the, the horror of some parents and the in activities and law enforcement. It was just a wild, you know, the whole thing just felt so wild. And it was, you know, I I I hope that never happens again, but I would wonder if, if people were able to put their fingers, they were pull back far enough where they could put their fingers on all the things that went wrong to ensure that never happens again.  

Danielle: Yeah. And part of it just feels like self hatred.  I don't know. That's how it felt to me.  

Dr. Bast: Yeah. Well, and, and you know, I, I remember somebody kind of made the offhand comment, and it wasn't, it wasn't public, but it was like, well, at this point now it's like we're doing this to ourselves, you know, so maybe we, we have normalized. And I was like, I'm like, how ho, you know, how wretched that, that would be like the bright line to say like, well, maybe we have integrated at some point because now we're victimizing our own communities. And, and it just, it broke my heart because, you know, of all the things to be able to identify with or to say that we've arrived, you know, that it would be the marker that we, we own the space enough that we can hate our own people enough to do that.  Disorienting the comment was super disorienting.  

Danielle: Yeah. I think I felt like that, like, is this what assimilation looks like? And then, but I'm struck by your guest comment, and it feels like, it also feels like that is not a sign of assimilation because of the guest, the, the desperation, and I'm not justifying anything, but Oh, sure, sure. How violence could be a justification  As a means to achieve something. Right. To achieve something. Right. So I guess this whole conversation just means we have to do a lot of work in our communities.  

Dr. Bast: Well, and I, but I think it first starts out, you know, it starts out with a posture, you know? Um, Yeah. I, I've always, I love the body positivity movement because, you know, it, it gives language to say things like no body's a bad body. You know, just like, you're not, you didn't, you're not moving to a, um, a body you can love better because it looks a different way and it appears a different way. And I wish we get to the same place, you know, in, in conversations especially around like multiracial, multiethnic bodies, that it's not like the more it looks like or the more it is something that it's a better body than the one that I've been given. And, you know, and when I, when I own that, when I can live into that, then I can, I can stand in a place of like positivity and like agreement with God.

Danielle:  Like I, this, I'm, I am fearfully, wonderfully made. Like I am amazing because, and there's some places I show up as a guest and I'm just like, Okay, I'm discovering and figuring it out, and there's some places I know I'm showing up as a life of the party, You know, I'm like, you're lucky to have me here. Like, I'm awesome, you know, you're awesome, dude. We're about to be awesome together. Right.  But it's that kind of confidence of just saying like, this is, you know, in the time that I have here, this is exactly who I'm supposed to be, and how exciting is that? Instead of being like, Okay, how do I figure out how to make it work?  

Danielle: Right. And I think that's in the text, right? Like in our faith and the scripture, just this idea that if we are fearfully and wonderfully made, then of course we are gonna have these combinations. And that's not a mistake.  

It isn't like you appeared and God's like, Well, I can work with that  

Dr. Bast: Exactly. Exactly. And you know, I'll even say, Danielle, you know, there's a part where, you know, the complexity over the next generation, the next 40 years is gonna be around the fact that we we're not even gonna have the luxury of outlining, of outlining conversations around particular races. I, you know, we're, we're living in a society that's so comfortable with, you know, multiracial experiences and marriages and, and friendships, you know, that I think, um, that's gonna be tricky too. And so being able to just kind of start with that space that, that this is, um, you know, this is this, God saw this and, and intended for this, you know, or hoped for this. And, and me living into that as me partnering, you know, to, to bring good into the world. It's a whole different mindset than just then the idea of just like, well, this happened. And so, you know, somehow that is figuring out like, well, I guess, you know, , we'll figure out what to do with you.  

Danielle: Right? I mean, it's that difference of being like, Well, I was born a sin, or I was born on purpose.  

Dr. Bast: Yep. Exactly.  

Danielle: Yeah. So what are, what are you reading right now? Like, what are you looking to, and who or what is inspiring you?  

Dr. Bast: Oh my gosh. So I'm still my dissertation work. So I'm reading, I'm reading book about change in leadership theory. So is that fun? I dunno. Um, and I have to be honest with you, like, I think because my brain is moving all the time, I actually listen to things on the outside to check out. So I'm a documentary person. I'm, I'm curious about people, I'm, I'm curious about the motivations of people. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so for me, it can look like everything from, you know, just regular old documentary to like a crime series, because I'm like, how did this happen? Like, what happened here? So it's, I don't think it's fair to say that was inspired by those things,  Um, and then I've been trying in my downtime to really lean in, um, to more fiction. So I finally got on board and read where The Crowded Sing.  

Danielle: And then who are, what's inspiring you?  

Dr. Bast: Who are, what is inspiring in this moment? Oh, so I had two boys, and they are night and day. They are salt and pepper, they're oil and water. And I would have to say the youngest in all of his wildness is really challenging me in a deep way. Like both good and bad. Um, and there's a part that's bringing me to the brink of myself, but I'm, it's been like this real testing in time of how do I make space for somebody else? Those big feelings, big thoughts, big emotions, Um, and at the same time like navigate having order and, and making the space safe for everybody. And so it's been a, it's, it really, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's been inspirational for me because I've had to re read more and dig deeper, um, and show up differently and manage my own emotions like in real time. And so it's pushing me in ways that I hadn't anticipated.  

Danielle: I like that. I like that. So folks wanna get a hold of you. I wanna follow your work. Where can they find you?  

Dr. Bast: You could find me on Instagram, most likely at Elisa Cortez bass. And apparently if you Google me, I'm out there in some places, which I find fascinating and so weird. But yes, ,  

 

Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.