Seeds of deception: GMOs, glyphosate, and the rise of gene editing

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glad that you're here. So now let's get started. Today's conversation is with

the person who's been the global thought leader for more than 27 years on the

health dangers of genetically modified organisms or GMOs. Jeffrey Smith is

here to talk about his evergreen book, seeds of deception, exposing industry and

government lies about the safety of genetically engineered foods you are

eating. And I think the title says it all.

Jeffrey, welcome so much to the 10 penny files. My friend, it's good to see

you again. You know, I don't know what you're doing, but you are timeless

ageless for many. I was gonna say the same thing about you. But we what do we

got? What do we got? I think it's when when you're doing your work. Yeah, it's

like you have you have a special wind under your sales. It's like it's like

it's not personal anymore. It's like we're here for the planet. We're here as

as servants and it just keeps us with energy and youth. Well, I would say

definitely youth, I think as long as I've known you, which has probably been close

to 25 years, I think that you have an age to minute and you look the same. So

whatever you're doing, keep doing it. Thank you. Speaking of 25 years, you know,

I've been doing this vaccine stuff that it'll be 26 years. And your book,

Seeds of Deception came out more than 20 years ago. That was an industry

shaker. Yes, there is for people who haven't read it. It's it's it's it really

elays the groundwork for so many things that we're talking about today. Walk us

through some of the transitions that you've seen over this last 20 years. And

do you think these are getting better, worse, or are they about the same?

It's an excellent question. And it's been a rollercoaster in terms of looking

at the bigger picture. When I started, I used to work at a GMO detection

laboratory to identify which foods had GMOs and which didn't. But then I

realized, so I was very much in the world debate on it, reading everything that

was written in the English language about it. But no one was talking about

the health dangers. And all of these non-profits were talking about

environmental issues, farmers' rights to save seeds, which was being messed up

by Monsanto, the illegality of patenting life. And so they were fighting on

those levels. And I was saying, we should talk about the health dangers. We need

to inform consumers because they're at the top of the food chain. And when they

find out that GMOs and the roundup herbicide that are sprayed on them are

linked to more than 30 diseases at the time. I didn't know how many diseases,

but now we have a lot of evidence linking specific diseases to GMOs and

roundup and we can get into that. I said, we need to convince and convey this

information to consumers and no one picked it up. So I was forced to write a book

about the health dangers. Now, because I'm not a scientist or a doctor, I had to

use, of course, third-party evidence and bringing a lot of scientists and

doctors. But there was the question, well, who am I to say that it's

dangerous when the government says it's safe? So then I had to show that

actually the FDA scientists uniformly said GMOs would be dangerous and needed

to be tested. But the political appointee in charge was Michael Taylor, Monsanto's

former attorney, later Monsanto's vice president, who allowed GMOs on the market

without any safety testing or labeling. And then we discovered how Monsanto and

others were rigging their research and attacking scientists who discovered

problems. And we exposed all of that. And so I traveled to 43 countries, sometimes

non-stop for six to nine months a year and helped build a movement based on

this new messaging. And that worked. So about half of the world's population now

believes that GMOs present long-term health dangers. And that has kept it

contained to about 12 GMO foods. However, these days, there's a new way to

create GMOs that is so cheap and easy, you can do it at home. It's called

gene editing and CRISPR is the easiest form of that. And you can buy a CRISPR

lab for less than $2,000 and create especially microorganisms that have never

existed on the planet before and release them. You can create genetically

engineered foods and feed them to people or sell them and have no jurisdiction

over you in the United States and in places around the world. So what this does

is it not only presents an unprecedented threat to the food supply, but once you

release a GMO into the environment, it can self-propagate, it can travel, it can

become a permanent part of the gene pool. So it's unrecallable, it's prone to

side effects, in fact, surprise side effects are the number one result of genetic

engineering. It's accessible to everyone with less than $2,000. In fact, high school

kids are being assigned CRISPR transformations in science class and it's not

regulated. So these four things that it's prone to side effects, that it's

permanent, that it's unregulated, that it's easy, easily accessible. That is

the formula for a disaster because we could replace nature in this generation. So

this is why right now it is more dangerous than anytime in my 30 years working at

GMOs, but also it's an unprecedented time in human civilization where we're

now playing with a technology that can affect all living beings and all future

generations. And so we need to redefine our relationship with nature to be its

protector now that we have the ability to replace it. So it is an urgent, all

hands-on-deck situation now. And what we're seeing is a disinformation campaign

by the boutique industry that has convinced country after country that gene

editing is predictable and safe and even natural and it's not. So one of the

things that we created at the Institute for Responsible Technology is a six-minute

animated film called Seven Reasons why gene editing is dangerous and

unpredictable. It's animated, you get a vision right into the DNA as to what

actually happens and in six minutes you'll know more than the regulators around

the world because they have been lied to. They've been lied to, but are they

willing to listen? That's the interesting thing. You know, I have spoken to

heads of state ministers, parliamentarians, and some of them are available and

can listen, especially when they haven't been the object of an attack by

Monsanto. So for example, Monsanto doesn't have a GMO presence in Taiwan. So when

I visited Taiwan, my book there was a national bestseller, Seeds of Deception

translated into Chinese. My first press conference was with a former prime

minister of the country. I ended up having meetings with their top parliamentarian

and senators and they had a hearing where I was, they summoned their version of

the USDA and FDA and then heard what I had to say and then after I left soon

after they eliminated GMOs from children's meals that served at school

among other things. So when there is not an effort to disinform and insulate,

when I went to Australia, they took my second book, Genetic Roulette, the

documented health risks of genetically engineered foods, and the activists

got together and bought one and gave them to every single elected official in

the country. And when I got there, two states were planning to legalize

genetically engineered canola. And those are the only states where I couldn't

meet with the ministers of agriculture because they didn't want to listen.

And everything we predicted that was going to go wrong did go wrong when they made

it available and they lost their premium and they couldn't sell it and there

was cross contamination and it was a disaster just like we knew. But it turns

out they had Monsanto and others had worked out to give some kind of kickback to

the farmers and the farmer organizations. So all of a sudden they came on board

and made a decision that was against their best interest.

You know, I, this was probably, but maybe a year and a half ago, maybe two

years ago now, I had a friend that was staying at my house for a couple of

weeks and not really into whole food and natural food and all that stuff as

much as what I am. And they came home one day and had a like a protein bar that

was sitting on the kitchen counter. And I picked it up and I thought, what's

in this stuff? So I was looking at the side and it says made with bioengineered

ingredients. And I really hadn't heard that term before. So I started looking

it up and looking at the difference between bioengineered and GMO and looking

at all the GMO stuff. And what turned out to be what I started to do was to

create a 1200 word sub stack on this topic, which turned into a 40 page

research paper of all the stuff that I kept finding that I really need to

finish and I need to need to put out there. But what is the difference that

people know, people understand and know about GMOs and they're bad and they

anticipate them being bad mostly because of your work of what you've done all

of these years. What's the difference between a bioengineered and bioengineered is

the term that the USDA used to confuse people. You see, what happened was I was

part of a nationwide effort to get GMOs labeled and we tried in different

states and the biotic industry with supporters from the food industry, spent

over $100 million lying on television because there's no law against lying on

television in a political debate. I mean, it's crazy how blatant it was. And so we

were not able to get ballot initiatives, but Vermont passed it in their

legislature that they were going to be labeling GMOs in the state. And what

happened was the biotic industry did a full court press onto Congress to say we

can't have individual states. We have to do it nationally and we shouldn't leave

it with the FDA. We should do it to the USDA because they had a lot more

influence in the USDA. So they passed what we call the dark act denying Americans

the right to know and said, no state can require labeling. We'll give it to

the USDA. And law many years later, they came out with a terrible, a terrible

labeling law, which oh, you don't have to even put a note on there. You could

put a QR code. So we required people to have service and a smart phone and then

go through a website to find out if this ingredient was genetically engineered.

Well, that got overturned by the courts. But it turns out that they give a pass to

anything that doesn't contain genetically engineered detectable DNA. So most

GMOs have been refined like, you know, scorn syrup and soybean oil and things

like that. You can't find the DNA in them. So those don't have to be labeled. And

anything that's a result of gene editing, which we just talked about, those don't

have to be labeled. And if they have to be labeled, let's use a term that no one's

heard of. So it's all a way of covering up the truth, hiding information from

consumers. Now, the courts just acknowledge that another layer of this was illegal

that they couldn't have to require detection. So we'll see what they come up with

next. But it's basically being dictated by the GMO makers. In fact, someone who

used to be at the FDA said, all the regulatory agencies have done everything that big

ag has asked them to do or told them to do. And we know that they have their own cronies

inside these regulatory agencies. Sometimes it's a secretary, you know, the cabinet member.

And oftentimes it's high level, high level placed people like the person who was in charge

of the cancer committee of the EPA, Jess Roland was one of Monsanto's lackeys. And when

there was this evidence that glyphosate, the chief poison in Roundup was likely causing

cancer. And that's a Monsanto product. He sent to his handlers a text at Monsanto saying,

if I can stop this other division of the government from testing for cancer on your product,

I should get a medal. And then he ran the committee that said, oh no, there's no relationship

between Roundup and Cancer. And an analysis of his committee showed that they basically

used Monsanto's data, including things that they had ghostwritten and paid people to sign,

whereas the World Health Organization used published peer-reviewed data and came out

with the opposite conclusion that Roundup is probably a human carcinogen. And then the

juries around the world have found the same, that, you know, they've awarded billions

of dollars to people who, because they see how Monsanto covered up the truth. It was

very exciting to be part of those trials, because we saw some of the things I hadn't

been able to uncover on my own. So usually I have a pretty big encyclopedic knowledge

of this stuff. But then I found out, for example, that in order to test Roundup, which is

spread on most Roundup-ready GMOs, they took Roundup and they applied it to human cadaver

skin to see if it would be absorbed, because this was required by the EPA. And it turns

out it was absorbed at a rate of 10%, which was 3.3 times the allowable limit, which if

they admitted, they would not have been allowed to be marketed. So they did Monsanto science,

which I have been studying for a year. But this is a beautiful example, a perfect example

of how Monsanto rigs the game. They took new human cadaver skin and they baked it in

another. Then they took that baked tough skin, but it wasn't good enough, then they froze

it. Then they applied Roundup to that baked frozen human skin and very little was absorbed

and they reported that very little bit to the EPA never telling them that they had baked

and frozen the human skin before applying.

You know, Jeffrey, every time I hear stories like this, like this from the vaccine industry

and the different things that they do and don't do, I wonder how do these people live

with themselves? And when it comes to stuff like this, what do they eat that they are

allowing this to go into the food supply? And how do they live with themselves? Does

it come down to, is it all about money, only about money, or is it so?

It's interesting. I have some stories from the inside. I know I talked to a former Monsanto

scientist and he said that he was aware that three of his colleagues were testing milk

from cows that were treated with Monsanto's bovine growth hormone. And they found so much

IGF-1, which is cancer related in the milk, that the three Monsanto scientists refused

to drink milk thereafter unless it was organic and one actually bought his own cow.

Right? So, in Monsanto, they couldn't, they wouldn't have it. I was also told by the

same scientist that the rats that were fed Monsanto's corn developed serious health issues,

so they rewrote the study to hide the effects. And he told me he was concerned that the

amount of corn that they fed the rats was quite a bit less than the amount of corn that's

eaten in southern Africa, because it's a staple, even three times a day. Now typically

Monsanto's maximum corn feed is 33% in their animal feeding studies, and the maximum amount

is 90 days, whereas the people in southern Africa can eat at 70% of their caloric intake,

sometimes 90% in times of famine. So, he left Monsanto and was concerned about that.

I actually interviewed a veterinarian whose client was a South African farmer, and he had

come to this American veterinarian saying, what can I do? And he turns out the cows were

sick and had poor milk and the pigs were sick and had really bad symptoms, and he said,

don't feed them another GMO. So, the farmer, because they had seen a lot of problems with

animals, fed GMOs in the United States. Now it's considered normal, but for those that

were around before and after GMOs were introduced, it was this huge deterioration of health.

So, the farmer planted non-GMO corn, because he had been planting his own GMO corn, and the

farmer and the cows were eating so much of this GMO corn and the pigs. So he planted non-GMO

corn, started feeding them, and they got better. But what was happening was his farm workers

were eating the same corn he was growing for the animals. So, it turns out while the farm workers

were eating the GMO corn, it was 100% GMO corn, not the mixture normally in the market, where

there's some GMO and some non-GMO. And he said, there was constant fever and cold-like symptoms

and inflammation and headaches. He had all these medicines for people. He needed 50 workers,

but he had to hire 60, because there was always 20% that were too sick. And the farmer told

the veterinarian that about once or twice a month, he'd be talking to a farm worker, and the

eyes would start tracking in different directions, not moving in parallel. And he knew that within

one or two days, they would be dead. And he didn't know why. But when these switched to the non-GMO

corn, all of the problems went away with his workers. Now, they were eating more GMO

food than probably anyone in the world, because of the amount of corn they're eating three times a

day, and the fact that it was 100% GMO. So they're the canaries on the coal mine. So yes, this

Monsanto scientist who was worried about the people in southern Africa was aware of the dangers

of just in 90 days that it was causing to rats. And I never had a chance to tell him what was

actually happening on this farm in South Africa. But I've also heard one time there was the story

of someone who was traveling with Monsanto as a consultant in England, and they were going to

be fed somewhere else. And he joked, this was early on in the late 90s, I think, or early 2000s.

He joked and said, well, you know, we may get those GMOs and the person said, oh, no, no,

we made sure that it doesn't. So it's remarkable. And, you know, there is this kind of

narrow-minded blinders on people where people think, well, it's not my job, or someone else

was handling it, and I'm sure they're doing a good job. Countless times, I went to regulators

and other countries, and I said, and they would say, I don't, we don't need to test and verify

GMOs because your FDA tested them and verified them. And I said, actually, no. The FDA scientist

said they should be tested. But the person in charge of policy, Michael Taylor, Monsanto's former

attorney, later their vice president, said no testing was necessary. Companies like Monsanto

can determine if their own GMOs are safe. There's a voluntary consultation process,

technically known as a meaningless exercise, where they give data summaries, not even the raw data

to the FDA. And at the end of 60, 90 days, they get a letterback saying, this is to remind you that

it is your responsibility to determine your foods are safe. You've determined that they are,

and we have no further questions. And then when there's even an interview with a Monsanto

scientist who says, it's not our responsibility to determine if GMOs are safe, it's the FDA's.

So everyone's passing the buck. And when you look at the actual research studies,

if someone like my old friend who's now passed Dr. Arpa Poustai discovered that GMOs are

inherently dangerous and cause massive damage in every system he looked at, he got fired,

threats of a lawsuit silenced, and that happened over and over again. Or other people that discover

problems. And then Monsanto makes equal and opposite research with rigged research and

obsolete detection methods and say, oh no, no, it's not true. Our studies show just the opposite.

So pointing this out to these other regulators that kind of get weight, that kind of realize

they have real, they have been duped. They thought that it was handled. And thank goodness I

was on the road. I remember one time there was a delegation visiting the United States to learn

about GMOs from the State Department. You know, this big propaganda and I somehow convinced them

to send a few my way when I was living in Iowa and a bunch came over to learn from me. You know,

the people of State Department did not know who I was. So one of them was like the FDA chairman

of Croatia, the top person in their government department. And I brought in a Croatian version

of seeds of deception. And I threw it on the table and said, and he goes, that's yours? You're that guy?

I said, yes. And he goes, until you came to the country and that book came, none of us had any

thought that GMOs might be dangerous. So this was years later. And so I got ripples, you know,

coming back to me years later that my work. And I say this for your benefit because you have no

idea when you give a talk, how many people hear it and whether, you know, you come back later.

I mean, one time I was speaking at the American Academy of Environmental Medicine and I had been

there for four years in a row giving talks on GMOs and different diseases each year. So one,

the final year, I think, were going to give me an award and I brought a camera and I interviewed

some some doctors and they had all been prescribing non GMO to their patients and getting better

results. So I got the video one woman said, Dr. Emily Lindner from from Chicago. She said, yeah,

I give non GMOs to all my patients now and they all get better. And I said, I was skeptical.

I said, what percentage? She says, I said, every, all right, 98%. And I said, how many people have

you put on non GMO diets? And she goes just a minute and she calculated how many people she sees

and how she looked at me and said, about 5,000. And so I said, can I come to your office and interview

the patients and I did. And also another doctor's office who was prescribing non GMO. And it was remarkable.

The changes were incredible. Three days, the Crohn's disease symptoms disappeared six weeks. The

irritable bowel symptoms disappeared. All these things were shifting. And at the same time, we brought

the video camera to farmers who had put pigs and cows now on non GMO and we're seeing the same

thing in three or four days with the same basic symptoms. And I remember talking to her in the

interview at the end and I said, were you learn about GMOs? She goes, she is it from you. I have no

idea that these ripples occurred, you know, so it's been a fun run. It's a society this way.

Remember reading your book back in 2003 or 2004 when it first came out. And the one,

one example that you gave there and we're going to tell you this, then we're going to go to our

break. I think I know what it is going. That you had two fields, one with GMO corn, one with non GMO

corn, and the Canadian geese wouldn't eat the GMO thing. They had the whole field. None of them

would go there. And I thought, you know, the animals are smarter than humans. They know better

and they didn't eat them. And I've remembered that all these years because it made such an impact on

me. So it's just so great to hear you talking about this. I've got some really specific questions.

I want to ask you right after the break about the, about the, about the Trump's executive order

and glyphosate, then I want to get a little bit to the pesticide immunity bill and the stuff that

we're trying to fight with that. So we're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsors for

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right back with more with Jeffrey Smith talking about seeds of deception exposing the industry,

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the code out loud for an exclusive offer. Welcome back everybody. Today's conversation is with

global thought leader on the health dangers of genetically modified organisms, commonly known

as GMOs. Jeffrey Smith to talk about his evergreen book, The Seeds of Deception, exposing

industry and government lies about the safety of genetically engineered food that you're eating.

The title says it all. Let me tell you a little bit more about my friend, a long time friend.

We were talking about that before the show. We've known each other for more than 20 years.

Let me tell you a little bit more about Jeffrey Smith. Jeffrey Smith is the global thought leader

on the health dangers of GMOs over the last almost 30 years. He has authored two best sellers,

directed five documentaries, delivered more than 2,000 lectures in 45 countries. He has trained

thousands of speakers and organized more than 10,000 grassroots advocates to stop the poisoning

of our food. Additionally, Jeffrey Smith has counseled world leaders on six continents. His

meticulous research has been presented at medical conferences, inspiring thousands of doctors

to prescribe non-GMO and organic diets. His success is measured by the fact that at least 48 percent,

if not more by now, of the world consumers has acknowledged that GMOs are unhealthy.

Jeffrey, welcome back to the show. Thank you so much for your many, many years of such

hard work and dedication to humanity. We are greatly indebted to you. Thank you, my friend.

What do you think? You've been sort of the leader for decades that you were the one that first

exposed all this stuff about glyphosate, all their crappy research and all their shifty scientists

that have been censored in all these different things about Roundup and the active ingredient,

which is glyphosate. I had a landscape guy a few years ago that said glyphosate is a toxic watch

and he drank it. It was like right in front of me and my eyes just popped out of my head. I thought,

oh, well, okay, you can lead horses to water, but you can't make them drink. Oh my goodness,

I've never heard that. That is horrible. Well, let me do this. Let's ask you something.

Okay, I'm going to, all right, I have an idea where we may want to go with this that'll really

pop the eyes of your listeners and like, whoa, go ahead. I'm going to do that, but I want to get

your thoughts on President Trump's executive order about making the acquisition of glyphosate

and national security issue, even though I think it's China produces 80% of it or something like that.

And it really, really turned off and enraged the maha people and who have been standing so firmly

behind Bobby Kennedy of trying to make America healthy again. And then after they did that,

all the work that we've been doing on stopping the pesticide immunity bill, which has been

said by Catherine Austin Thitson, a couple of her researchers, that if we get, if that passes,

it is going to be an extinction level event because of the negative impact on infertility.

So those two things kind of together all circle around glyphosate. What are your thoughts about

those issues? Yeah, I'm going to integrate this side popping information into my answer because it is,

I want to make it very personal. I want to point out that how bad glyphosate is to put into context

this presidential executive order and this liability. So I want to build a case that glyphosate and

GMOs, especially the GMOs that have glyphosate on them, are a national health issue and maybe

one of the most negatively impactful toxins ever in modern society. I'm not talking about infectious

disease. I'm talking about toxins. Now, first of all, people should know that glyphosate,

the chief poison in Roundup is what is used to spray on Roundup, ready soy, corn, cotton,

canola, sugarbeats, and alfalfa. Most of those, except it's not all of the alfalfa and the

cotton, it's not all of the alfalfa, but it's most of everything else. Most of the soy, most of the

corn, most of the canola, most of the cotton is Roundup ready, all of the sugarbeats, and that

means it's designed not to die when sprayed with Roundup. So if you eat the GMOs, the Roundup

gets absorbed into the plant, deposited in the food's portion, and it's in our food in large numbers.

But that's not the only exposure. Obviously, if your neighbor's doing it, that's another exposure.

But it's also used to dry down grains and beans. So it's sprayed on wheat just before harvest,

three to five days before harvest. It's sprayed on oats, it's sprayed on lentils and mung beans,

and chickpeas. So it's in high concentrations. If you go to responsibletechnology.org,

we have a database of the glyphosate levels, of various raw food products, as well as brands,

at responsibletechnology.org. Now, that means it is in the food supply. Now, to avoid it,

you want to eat organic, which doesn't allow either GMOs or Roundup. But I'm going to talk

about the liability shield, but I want to indicate just how dangerous this stuff is.

My friend, Dr. Stephanie Senif, who downloads massive amounts of data from the internet.

She's a senior researcher at MIT, and she knows how to do big data analysis, and she also has a

degree in biology. So she wanted to figure out, using data and biological mechanisms, what was

causing autism. And so she pulled everything down that she could and said, I understand, because

of the physiological changes, why these kids have these particular problems. But I can't figure

out the toxic input. So she looked at every single toxin that she knew about, and it didn't fit.

She went to a lecture by another friend of mine, Dr. Don Huber, and sat at the edge of her seat,

because he was talking about glyphosate, and realized that glyphosate fit hand in glove perfectly

as a trigger for autism. Now, you have your own theory on it, but then the two may work together,

but that was an example of later, she put a chart together of the incidents of autism in six

year olds, the amount of glyphosate they have been exposed to over the past four years,

how much glyphosate has been sprayed on soy and corn. And it was nearly a perfect correlation,

0.9978 out of one. And it demonstrated high correlation, but she had also the biological

mechanisms of how glyphosate could change the physiology to create that. Now, I'm going to just

review some of the other diseases. For those that are watching, and there's going to be both

watching and audio, I'm just going to flip through some charts, and I'm just going to describe

them. So if you're not watching, it's okay. These charts describe how correlated different diseases

are to glyphosate. And they're very highly correlated as the disease goes up, as the disease goes

up so to does the amount of glyphosate. So we have inflammatory bowel disease, death from obesity,

anxiety, diabetes, death from Alzheimer's, death from Parkinson's, death from hypertension,

autism in six year olds, which was, as I say, nearly a perfect correlation, insomnia,

celiac disease, acute kidney injury, death from kidney failure, kidney and renal pelvic cancer,

liver cancer, liver and bile duct cancer, thyroid cancer, death from leukemia, breast cancer,

death from intestinal infection, death from disorders of lipoprotein metabolism,

parotonitis, hepatitis C, dementia, death from senile dementia, diagnosis of ADHD,

schizophrenia, suicide by overdose, tons of birth defects, I'm flipping through all these types

of birth defects, including blood disorders, and then there's anemia, and death due to stroke.

Now, in addition to these charts, I sent out a survey to 3,256 people

who reported getting better from 28 different conditions when they switched to largely non-geomod diets.

And the number one improvement was digestive disorders with 85.2% reporting improvements.

And most of those that reported improvements, 80% of them was either significant improvements,

almost gone or completely resolved. 60% got better from fatigue, 54.6% from overweight or obesity,

about 52% from brain fog, also from anxiety and depression, over 50% food allergies and

sensitivities, and it goes down to all these different diseases. I don't need to mention them

all now. But the idea is this is a national emergency. So put that against

Trump's executive order saying protecting the availability of glyphosate is a national emergency.

They were told by bear that Bart Monsanto, that if they don't get protection from liability

of people suing them for cancer, that they're going to stop making glyphosate available,

and that will destroy the soy, and corn, and cotton, and canola, and sugar beet crops,

that rely on them. So instead of creating a logical transition from this dangerous toxic

input with 300 million pounds a year sprayed on America to a non-toxic-based agriculture,

Trump folded and said, okay, we need to declare this a national emergency.

Now, it's unclear to me whether the executive order grants the liability,

but it's being used in the Supreme Court case, where bear has asked the Supreme Court to say,

if the EPA approves it, no one can sue. If the EPA doesn't require a label,

no state can require a label. The liability law built into the farm law, and others also,

no one can sue if it's passed by the EPA. It's protecting against their liability. Now,

we already mentioned earlier that the Monsanto lied to the EPA. They had their lapdog in the EPA,

and there's many other ways that, in these court cases, it was found out that they

ignored experts that showed them that their glyphosate was probably causing cancer and fired

expert and then ghost wrote exactly the opposite in a review study, and then paid people to sign

it and sent that to the EPA. So they defrauded the EPA, they defrauded the science community,

they defrauded consumers, and now we're not allowed to sue if this passes, because the EPA says

it's okay based on false and fraudulent data. So the whole thing is a absolute disaster.

So I know I've met Bobby Kennedy on the road around these trials. He was one of the attorneys

for the first Monsanto Roundup case, protecting Lee Johnson, representing Lee Johnson, who was a

a groundskeeper for the Bonitia school district in California, who got non-Hochkins lymphoma

from using Roundup. And he won, and it was awarded $250 million, although the judge lowered it,

and so Bobby Kennedy, you know, RFK Jr., knows about the dangers of this stuff. We talked about it

on his podcast, and he's not in charge of this. The USDA Secretary is in charge of this,

and the EPA is in charge of this, and that has allowed this disaster to continue.

And then the way that it was supported in the executive order just reinforces what we've been

watching for more than two decades that the government has done everything that Big Ag has asked

them to do and told them to do. Even the State Department was turned into an enforcement wing

by Monsanto, where if you look at the cables made available from WikiLeaks, they met with Monsanto's

representatives. They told governments to accept GMOs in Roundup all over the world. So it's a U-S-A-I-D.

You know, they were a enforcement wing. They were sending GMOs soy and corn to places

that had famine rather than giving them money, and I remember I was in Zambia. They had said,

we're not allowed to take GMOs. It's against our laws, and the U.S. said, tough. Take it or starve.

And they said, we'll find it somewhere else. This infuriated the American government because

it blew their pretend scheme that GMOs were there to feed the world. So they started to nail

Zambia. They sent over Congress people and senators, and they tried. I was talking to one of the

ministers, and he introduced himself to the Secretary of Agriculture and Venemen as from Zambia,

and she goes, backward country and turned and walked away. They were being completely marginalized

and attacked. So when I wrote a full article interview for an investigative reporting magazine in

South Africa called Nozwiq, I love the name. I got contacted by the government newspaper in Zambia

saying, can we place that? Can we use it? They did a full spread inside their paper with a picture

of the president, with my talk about GMOs and the dangers because it vindicated them. And then when

I was there, I spoke to their House of Chiefs. They had a Senate and a Congress and a House of Chiefs.

And the first thing I did was I said, I'm from the United States and I apologize. They have treated

you so badly. You were right to say no to GMOs. No one died from starvation. They got their food

from someone else. But can you imagine? We already talked about what happened in South Africa,

where people eating it. Now you have them. You uncompromised people who are sick and you feed them

GMOs and it's a disaster. So yeah. So the government has been basically an enforcement wing of

Monsanto, which is now a part of Bayer. And this is just the latest in what is the travesty.

Well, that was very important information there, but I needed to hear. I want to switch shift gears

just a little bit. But for the sake of time, I'm going to ask you to keep it a little bit shorter.

We've only got about five or six minutes left. Another couple of hours. But you know, recently,

you were part of a research team that published a paper titled genetically modified micro-organisms,

risk and regulatory considerations for human and environmental health. What are genetically

modified microorganisms? And why should we be concerned in just a couple of minutes?

All right. Microbes are microbiome inside us to determine whether we're healthy or sick,

the bacteria, algae, fungus, viruses, archaea, all of them are part of the microbiome.

Microbiome is essential for human health. You know that. Many of your readers or listeners know

that. Microbiome is essential for environmental health. The algae produces most of the earth's oxygen.

The micro-risal fungi shift shuttle nutrients between trees, soil, microbes, conduct the carbon

cycling. When you genetically engineer a microbe, you introduce a new genetic combination that

may never have existed before. You release that into the environment. Microbes swap genes.

So if you've given them some kind of survival advantage, that new gene or gene combination

could be passed on around the world, changing the nature of nature, that it would be

irrecollable and can change the way the microbes inside us and around us support life. It could

cause disease. It could cause damage or collapsing ecosystems. And right now, there's a massive

amount of genetically engineered microorganisms that are being put on farmlands and being created

by high school and college students. So this is a absolute existential threat. And one of the most

important things that I can do is to try and get this and other governments to say, we cannot

allow genetically engineered microbes to be released into the environment or we may destroy life.

Wow. So are you making any headway with that? Are we getting these people to stop?

Get the publishing list. Before you answer that, why are they doing this in the first place?

Well, it was interesting. I talked to a microbiologist who works with microbes and at the beginning

of our hour long conversation, he said, I have no problem with releasing GMOs in the environment,

GMO microbes. And at the end of the hour, this person who was very senior said, you've completely

convinced me. I don't think any genetically engineered microbes should be released ever.

We had a microbiologist on staff. I said, check with your colleagues what they're concerned

about GMO microbes are. He contacted five of them and they said all the same thing never really

thought about it. It's not like they think of the disasters and say, let's go. They just don't

think about it because everyone is moving forward. There's two companies that have already created

genetically engineered microbes as soil inoculants. And it's on as much as 45 million acres with as

many as five trillion microbes per acre. There's also genetically engineered microbes being used

in factories where let's say you want to create an opioid, you take an opium gene from the opium

poppy, put it into yeast or bacteria or algae and then it produces the opium and then you

isolate it, purify it. You have a cheap way of producing opium or CBDs or industrial enzymes or

vanilla or whatever. Now you have these organisms in your factory that if they get out, now they're

producing these things in the environment. If they get into the human gut microbiome, you may have

opium or CBDs or these things being produced inside you 24-7. And think about even in the most

secure laboratories, anthrax gets out, flu viruses get out. What about these factories where there's

hundreds of them producing these called synthetic biology or send bio? Is it possible that they're

going to escape from these factories? Of course. So it's like a ticking time bomb.

Well, Jeffrey, you know, we could talk about this for in the hour. If I can get lots of notes here

and I'm going to listen to this interview again because this is so terribly important.

In the last minute or two that we have here, what's your takeaway for people and where can they

get your books and your documentaries and all of the things that you... Sure. So I'm going to give

three things. First of all, biotic industries been trying to attack me for years. They didn't,

they haven't been successful until recently, they hacked our Facebook account and we lost 125,000

people who lost the account. So please go to the institute for responsible technology Facebook page

and join the page and join the group so that we can tell them you're not going to get away with

it. Let's rebuild it together. You can go to responsibletechnology.org, which is the mothership

of information. Sign up for the newsletter and watch the film. Don't let the gene out of the

bottle. 16 minutes on the dangers of genetically engineered microbes and one that was two weeks

away from being released that could have, according to one scientist, ended terrestrial plant life

on the planet. Fortunately, we didn't find out because it wasn't released. And you can watch the

six-minute film about the dangers of genetically engineered gene editing and a lot of other things.

And so if you want the book, the book is the seeds of deception is old, but it's, as I say,

as you said evergreen because it's about how this stuff was introduced and that's bedrock in terms

of based on lies and whatnot and that's at seedsofdeception.com. So I have also the best video, the best

documentary that I created with Amy Hart is called Secret Ingredients and that's at secret

ingredientsfilm.com. The reason why it's the best is because people switched to organics and

got better. Kids who are on the spectrum no longer on the spectrum. People that couldn't get pregnant,

got pregnant. One woman has a hundred percent success rate at her clinic for having infertile

couples have kids and the main thing is she puts them on organic food, talking about fertility.

We're going to have all these links in the show note below. So Jeffrey, thank you so much

for your decades of hard work. Thank you for being my friend all these years and thank you for

what's coming in the future too that we'll leave that as a little tagline. But thank you so much

for this great interview and this great conversation. We're out of time for today's everyone. So I

want to thank everyone for being here today. We will see you tomorrow or the next time right here

on the 10 penny files at americaoutloud.news, iHeartRadio or any of the podcast platforms that we

talked about. Have a great day. Rest of your day everybody. Goodbye and God bless.