Set 2: The Big Man on Campus... BMOC

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With Stu Gotz and Hawkman.

I got a direct message, Stu Gotz,

and there's always requests,

a million requests for different show bits and show memories.

But this one, Stu Gotz is in Evanston right now.

One of his daughters goes to Northwestern.

She's a lacrosse player.

Yes, she plays lacrosse for Northwestern,

which when she started here,

it was the Alabama of Women's lacrosse.

And now just three or four years later,

it's the Indiana of Women's lacrosse.

How about that?

Yeah, I would imagine Northwestern's got

a good lacrosse program, huh?

Yes, dominant lacrosse program.

Perhaps the greatest, not perhaps,

the greatest women's lacrosse program of all time.

So, well, and Evanston Northwestern,

I mean, I would have gone to Northwestern,

probably if I could have gotten in.

That was the top communication school.

But I mean, I couldn't even,

I wasn't even allowed to look at the campus

when I would drive by.

It's a beautiful campus.

It's a beautiful city.

You are not alone.

There's no way I'm getting into that school.

There's no way Rachel gets into that school

without the lacrosse.

And so, that's the deal.

Yes, she was deciding between Syracuse and Northwestern.

And I'm like, Rach, really?

Yeah, I was, I also,

when I was going into broadcasting,

but I grew up in the North Shore right near Evanston.

I was in Highland Park.

And I was deciding between Northwestern Syracuse.

And I ended up at the University of Miami

because Northwestern and Syracuse

wanted nothing to do with me.

Syracuse, really?

They have very good broadcast schools.

I couldn't go on to Syracuse, but not Newhouse.

Oh, okay.

The only reason I wanted to go to Syracuse

was for the Newhouse Communications School.

Right, and I didn't get in.

Yep, and Northwestern for Medell,

and you couldn't get into that.

And so, you have my talents, the South Beach,

plopped out at Pearson Hall,

ordered some deep pizza and a velvet cream donut or two.

Fast forward however many years.

Still here.

Couple of shifts at the local guy

at the college radio station.

You're not kidding, man.

Thursday nights, 1 a.m. to 4 a.m.

Oh, wow.

That was my shift.

Do you have tapes of that?

Oh, I do.

Can we play one one day?

Yeah, if you can get together $500,000

from listeners, I will play for you

not only my WVUM air checks,

I will play for you my first professional job in Belgrade WBGF

and I will play for you my stint

as a top 40 DJ at star 95.5 and all hit 95.5 WOVV.

But that's a half million dollar price tag on that crap.

So you're saying if we could somehow raise

from the audience me and the audience a half million dollars,

we will have access and you're permission

to play all three of those with you here, right?

I think those are embarrassing, no doubt.

The most embarrassing tape I own videotape

is this God for sake and I have a friend of mine

who's going through this right now because get married.

I got married in 1997 and you know,

you'd hire a photographer, a videographer,

back then it was very different, you know,

because they were using tape and whatever.

And he's like, oh, this is going to be

before the wedding video, I bet you've done this.

Before the wedding video, this is just going to be shots

of you and Lori, my wife walking on the beach

and swinging on a swing set like natural.

Yeah.

And I mean, a fucking pair of slacks

and a button down shirt walking down the beach,

who fuck wears that on a beach?

And now when I look back on it,

I'm like, who talked me into this?

This is like, like, what am I doing?

I'm on a tire swing in slacks and a button down shirt

like lovingly pushing Lori.

And I'm like, oh, hey, I know we're all doing it.

I know we're dressed for temple.

Why don't we hit the park real quick?

I'll push you a couple times on the wheel swing,

the tire swing.

I literally, like, I get the shivers

if that videotape comes on.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,

$100,000.

And I will watch that tape like a rewatchable.

I will watch that with everyone.

We can go over frame by frame.

What's going through my fucking head?

Because I literally am questioning everything

about my life because I'm, I've got sand in my pants.

I'm supposed to look happy.

Oh, it's so great.

Right, and they're telling you that natural

and yet that's the most unnatural thing

to do if you will ever you'll never do that.

Right.

And then it's like, you know, they put this music behind it

and you're watching it.

And so they're making it look like it was natural.

But who am I fooling?

The only people watching it is me and Laurie.

Like what?

Oh, yeah.

Because now we've been married almost 30 years.

Like, oh, yeah, I remember when we were single,

we used to do that.

We would get all dressed up and take a walk to the park

so I could push you on a swing.

What?

Fuck.

What was I talking about?

I have no idea.

But the guy shooting it was just laughing

all the way to the park.

I mean, yeah, there's probably like,

yeah, it's an extra thousand dollars

for a beach and tire push walk.

Oh, okay.

Assign me up.

I drink red for the beach and tire swing shots.

The fucking worst.

I think I have enough.

I've got so 100 grand.

So for some reason, I think about that.

It's because I used to listen to Howard Stern

and Gary Delibate, Baba Bowie, had a videotape

of him trying to talk his old girlfriend back into dating him.

I don't know if you were a big Stern fan,

but it was like, you know, right now my personal life

is at like a, my professional life is at like a nine.

He says nine very weird.

Yes.

My professional life is at like a nine,

but my personal life is at like a two.

It's like it's because, you know,

your personal life is at like a nine,

but you're professional and it's just like,

it's like, it makes him cringe.

And so Stern got a bunch of listeners together

to pay Baba Bowie like a hundred thousand dollars

for a screening of the tape.

So let me do this.

I'll go fund me because I want to try to do this.

I think people would pay to hear your radio shows

and watch that video.

Yeah, I'll give you, I'll give you all my air checks

and the video.

So what if they don't reach a hundred grand?

What do you do?

Do you have to send it back?

We just keep it.

So many things.

What happens there?

No, it's going to be, it's got to be in a public situation.

They can, in no camera, no, no cameras or phones are allowed.

You get to, you get to join us somewhere

and we all watch it together.

Why do you get, why are you making it like a Derek Eater party

because no one's allowed to have any election of it

after you leave.

You're not allowed to then all of a sudden

share the tape with the world.

You're one of the few that gets to see it.

Yeah.

What were you talking about?

So I get this direct message on Instagram.

Oh, yeah.

You can DM anything you want on this podcast

with Stugots and Hockman to my Instagram.

It's Radio Mark Hockman.

Says there was an episode where you guys did a deep dive

into Stugots' lacrosse records.

His BMOC claims, big man on campus

and you found out his teams were terrible.

Yeah.

And then you had a great analogy

about being the best English speaking broadcaster

in your college and then we find out

you went to school in Guatemala or something.

I would love for you to relive this on the pod.

And I figured since Stugots was in Evanston today

at Northwestern and there for lacrosse reasons,

we could revisit this just for fun.

So here's a clip from the show.

The jump off point for this.

You remember Matt Barkley was going to stay

in college in extra year.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I do remember.

Dan brings that up and is curious like how you pursue

a conversation about Matt Barkley staying in college

or someone coming out of college.

And here's where the conversation goes.

Is it better to be this year?

Matt Barkley, Orion Mallet.

This year, Matt Barkley, but eventually

it will probably be better to be Ryan Mallet

at some point.

But no, I'm with you.

I'm talking Matt Barkley wants to sign up

for another year being Matt Barkley instead

of another year being Ryan Mallet.

Dan, listen, coming from someone who was the BMOC,

big man on campus.

And I was, that's so douchey.

BMOC, I mean, I was.

I was big time on my university.

The cross was the only physical sport we had.

I was an old American BMOC.

Listen, I'd pay a lot of money to have it back, douche,

that acronym.

I don't know how about the story.

Don't get about the acronym.

How about the story, didn't he?

I mean, I just blew past that.

I mean, that's just unbelievable.

I mean, Stu got, Stu got his uncommon delusion.

That's unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

What college did you go to again?

Clark University.

If I called their athletic department right now

and said, can you tell us how to contact one

of your more successful graduates, John Weiner?

Yeah.

They would, they would have, oh, yes.

Well, well, you mean the guys Jersey,

the tagging, the record's up there?

BMOC, 92.

Yeah.

Just be fair to me is BMOC from that one.

Unbelievable.

Now, you can hear, I love that segment because you can hear,

I mean, Dan and I, Dan always talks about, you know,

buzzards starting to circle.

Oh, yes.

Like we are buzzards starting to circle right there because we're,

we're seeing something is here.

Yep.

And how is it going to play out?

And you can hear Mike Ryan and Roy cracking up in the background there.

I just, I like the dynamic of that audio.

It's, it's funny because before you started working on the show,

I can get him past Dan, but the combination of you and Dan,

it was impossible to get any of this shit through, man.

You guys were always ready to pounce, you know, so now I think you're trying

to get away from this a little bit because you realize this is not going to go well.

But now I'm starting to do a little research into your claims.

Yes.

To the Clark University website.

Yeah.

And Stugas does indeed hold a couple of lacrosse records.

I guess I was making this up.

He is on the way.

He is on the website.

Now, the only reason I don't own all the records, Dan, is my senior year team player

here.

I'm a team player.

Okay.

Senior year.

Our goalie went down with an injury.

I had never played goalie before in my life.

I played goalie my senior year.

Because you are magic Johnson filling in for Kareem for an entire year.

Magic did it for a game.

I did it for an entire season, okay?

So how did I play my normal position, which was attack that season?

I would have shattered every record and I would still hold them to this day.

As it is, as Hock has pointed out and seen now, but his own eyes, I'm pretty high.

I'm pretty, I'm pretty close to being right at the top of all the list, all the major

categories.

Poets assist goals.

So it's just goals.

That was the only one I saw.

That's points to go.

Points to points.

How long?

Where is that?

Honestly, I don't know.

Clark.

Clark University.

Yeah.

I can see why you make that mistake.

Clark Kellogg.

Of course.

Of course.

BMOC.

At Clark University.

And then of course, you know, my graduate school at CSP was also the BMOC there.

Can I have a kids' school of broadcasting?

Yeah.

Clark Kellogg.

Now, here's that I wasn't even fucking around there.

I really thought you went to Kellogg.

See what's happening here is Stu Gotts is starting to think that it's going his way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I've been able to maintain that he was not lying about a couple of the records.

So Stu Gotts starts to double down a little bit there.

You see, you see, you see.

But now we start to uncover a little bit more.

There's a texture who keeps sending here because I just asked you off air how good was

the team.

And you said pretty good.

Yeah.

The texture here who keeps sending what the records were of those teams that you were

allegedly on.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

Were you all in 11 when you were the keeper for your lacrosse team?

That was my senior year, yes.

Now understand, I may be ultimate team sacrifice there.

I had never played goalie before in my life and I wanted to play goalie because our goalie

got injured and we went out in 11.

Yeah.

I think it was one in 10, actually.

I think we beat Bryant College.

Your name hanging from the raptors that we're doing.

So wait a minute.

That makes me believe that the other record he sent for your lacrosse team.

And I got to find this here because it's buried here.

But were you sub 500 as a team your entire career?

Big man on campus?

Well, I was the BMOC, but my freshman year, I think we were six and five.

I think we were six and five.

But I think the record that I got for you, did you guys, I think it was like eight and

34.

No, we won more than eight games.

I hope we won more than eight games.

I think we won more than eight games.

Are you sure?

We got to look this up.

You got to sprinkle the oven 11 in there.

Doesn't help.

No, I think it doesn't help the man.

But I understand I made the ultimate sacrifice there was Magic Johnson playing center in

the NBA finals.

He did it for a game.

I did it for season.

That's the sacrifice.

You were historically bad team.

You know what?

Let's do this after the show.

Let's put you in goal.

Okay.

And let me take 100 mile per hour shots.

I knew what you'd defend to please God of defensiveness.

Even if you did that in a college game.

Yeah.

My record at goalkeeper couldn't end up being worse than yours.

All American though.

Honorable mention all American.

It's a sophomore.

I mean, let's do that.

Let's do that.

Look, Hawk didn't come out here start the show with I was the big man on campus.

I was huge.

I was great at lacrosse and when we were talking about your records, you really enjoyed

talking about your records, but all of a sudden you don't want to talk about the team

record.

Ultimate team guy didn't mention that he was all in 11 left that part out.

I mean, don't you think that's a pretty important detail now?

It's all a whirlwind at this point, first of all, my hand is spinning.

He's like, he's like, do I acquiesce?

Do I keep forging ahead?

Right.

You're in a no man's land here because we still don't have any kind.

Now I'll give you a little spoiler alert.

We do beat him down here.

Like we get to the reality of it, spoiler alert.

He wasn't six and five.

He never had a winning record in his collegiate, my freshman year, I still, I still maintain

that I did.

I mean, great team was me and Mike Maltese, Pete Sotsman, I mean, it's fantastic.

He's here's another clip is things start to fall apart for you.

This guy's riding in that you're eight and 34 is a cost player that you were all in

11 year last year and one and 10 year before your last year.

Damn, Marino never wanted all still great.

Still great.

Still great.

Where are you in deep?

Where are you indeed eight and 34?

I don't know the records.

I only know I don't know the team records.

I know the individual records and I hold all of them as you've seen on the Clark University

website.

We have validated that at least give it that.

Yes.

Yes.

I played goal a year.

We'll give you that.

You've been bragging about that for close to a decade.

What you've left out is that your team someone had to get the numbers was apparently filled

with disabled people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was.

I have to see a team picture.

I have to see a team picture because I have a feeling it's going to look like a telethought.

I get me.

It will.

It will.

You're going to be missing.

That or a reunion of mine sweepers.

That's me.

It's 25.

I mean, come on.

It's a good team.

It's a good team.

It's a good team.

Well, no, it couldn't have been a good team.

My freshman year, the year we had like Maltese Kyle Turner, all these guys in the top five

of the career scoring.

That was our back.

It wasn't a good team.

Oh, you can't say a team that was a career record.

Well, the senior year team wasn't very good.

Well, it sounds like junior and senior year, your combined record was like one in 21 something

like that.

I was a leader in a riot, it's falling apart here.

I want to know what you know, your daughter is about your lacrosse career.

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Listen, most people in life, you just tell them a thing about lacrosse, they believe it,

they move on with their days, but in our lives, in our work lives, that doesn't fucking

fly, okay?

If I just walked out and I met you at Starbucks for an espresso and a couple of cameos,

I was like, hey, huh?

I was a great lacrosse player.

You wouldn't think twice of it, but in that environment everything has looked up, and

everything has challenged me.

In hindsight, you're senior year, do you wish you'd just kind of stayed at attack?

Yes.

Yes.

I mean, but I had to make the ultimate sacrifice because that's what a team player does,

you know?

I love that he's got his stock lines ready to go.

He's ready for a 30 for 30 at any moment, and he's got his, I mean, the marino never won

a Super Bowl.

Yeah.

He was the ultimate team player.

I was the sack of advice guy.

Perhaps it was a terrible strategy to have your best offensive player be the backup goalie.

I mean, I believe this next clip is where it just officially becomes classified as a lie.

I'm not kidding, yeah, when I say to you that before this texture unearthed this library

of lies.

It's unbelievable.

It's so good.

Oh, God.

Well, let me finish what I was saying.

Bluff air.

I asked you just, flippantly, just making conversation.

How was the team?

Pretty good.

And you said pretty good.

I got it.

That is what he said.

Yeah.

I did.

He said pretty good.

That's 65 is pretty good.

That's what he said.

But why are you only referring the one winning season allegedly, because I don't have any

proof that it was winning season.

Maybe it felt like 65 because compared to 0 and 11, 2 and 8 feels like it's a nine

and some four fits for teams that just didn't have enough players just putting out the three

years out of my mind.

That texture we hawks and that texture to my little name gives because he poured through

the Clark record to reveal basically, who is he?

He's some of sports great liars, Georgia Leary with the lie on the resume in another

day.

I never lied about that.

He's the same guy who killed Nick Sabin.

Nick Sabin.

Nick Sabin.

Well, you know what?

In all honesty, other than him saying flippantly that they were pretty good, which was off

air.

He didn't lie, but he never has painted apparently the complete picture.

Well, validate my individual comp.

Yeah.

But if you have an individual accomplishments, years, okay, but they're validated, right?

We finally have some validation on it, right?

No.

He, like me, saying, by the way, in 96 to 98, I was the single greatest English language

broadcaster in the history of my school.

And then you find out that I went to school in Guadalajara and I was the only guy that spoke

English.

We were four.

We were four and six, that fresh, that glorious freshman year, four and six, which in

hindsight, you remember six and five, so now, now, now, here's where I'm going to go

days.

The ringing tribute.

If we were doing into the fire for the still gots lacrosse career season, we'd be doing

the documentary on the four and six year.

Four and six year.

Now, we were four and six freshman year under head coach John Stevens, who, who, I think

I know until this day, he's coaching at Bapsid, so I don't believe anything coming

out.

I was on the job.

I don't need details.

You lob it.

The next three years combined, we had four wins.

And then, well for you, no, that had to be an inside job, the texture, right?

I mean, it was someone, someone who played with me as Tom Hicks, Alan Good, it had, you

know, Brad Bajarian.

I mean, it had to be one of those.

What is jealous of of your skills?

Here's the final clip as we put an end to Stu Gotts' claims of being big man on campus

and lacrosse star at Clark Kellogg.

This is where it all just unravels.

Do you want to redefine your, your lacrosse career at all?

Wait a minute.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

The texture was right.

He was 8 and 34.

No, not at all, huh?

Because I was top 10 in the country in scoring.

Four and six, three and seven.

I was an honorable mention all American my sophomore year.

I was a team player in play.

I played with 11, I went 11 that year.

And on top 10, as you have seen now, huh?

Like I have top 10 in the school, it's scoring points and goals.

I'm pretty proud of it.

I'm pretty proud of it.

It sounds like it literally sounds like you were the only able to body person in the

Olympic college.

I do.

I really do picture a guy with leopardsy on the team, a handful of little people every can't

play this weekend as arm fellow.

The school is lookorn on blue.

Like the team picture, do you realize how great a team picture is, is it?

Two gods and the monster athlete in five, nine, BMOC, BMO, there's definitely a guy in

a wheelchair.

You know, there's a guy with a peg leg, there's people staring every which way but at the camera.

I've been exposed to someone like the team is riddled with learning disability, that's

not nice.

Two gods also have, by the way, two gods, also the scholar on that team.

This is the same university that gave him an English degree.

Anybody that needed a device, he would go to study.

To value everything that's ever happened in Clark University.

I can't believe the piece of investigative work done, man.

You know in that team picture, there's a guy with a full body cast.

One of the guys has his arm, and there's a plane, it's all the way to his right, totally

hard.

It's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell.

That was the request from one of the listeners to this podcast.

You knew at the beginning of it, it was going to end with you yelling out, I've been exposed.

I mean, eventually you just got to cave in and laugh at yourself and have fun because

the beat down is just too much to take, I mean, but listen, Hawk, I was the first guy off

the boss.

I was the last guy to leave.

I was a team player.

I mean, those are the things I did for Clark University.

I'm certain if you go there right now to the Clark University website, I still hold

many of the records.

I did.

He is doubling down in the year, 2026, he is doubling down.

I do like that your biggest accolade now continues to be.

I was at the ultimate team player, first off the bus, I mean, oh my God, anyway, if you

want to hear something on the podcast, Radio Mark Hockman on Instagram, and we will

get to it.

If you want a cameo from me, and two gods, we were at Meisner Park this week recording cameo,

this week last week, I thought we had an emergency cameo to do.

You were on the road somewhere, I had to reach out to the guy because I was in Tampa and you

were out of town and we weren't going to be able to get together.

So I had to reach out to him and tell him to rebook it because he had done a 24 hour cameo

and I was stuck on an Amtrak train, I don't even want to get into the story, but I was

stuck on an Amtrak train in the middle of nowhere.

No power on the train and just sat there baking in the sun for four hours.

What?

But that's a story for another time.

Okay.

If you'd like a cameo, go to cameo, look for Mark Hockman and stew out tonight.

We'll do one for you.

I did get a text during our recording here from Buddha at deck 84 in Burke Max's, said,

did you like the hurricanes today, as you see, turn them.

Yeah, because I don't have to work.

I said, I don't know if you want to take gambling advice from me, I was all over Myron

Gardner the night band scored 83.

I wanted it to end right there, but I know I have to do three nicknames.

You got to do three nicknames.

Burke Max's, by the way, is a fantastic restaurant in West Delray Beach and Buddha runs

the place.

Deck 84 is a fantastic restaurant on Atlantic Avenue in Delray Beach right by the Infra

Coastal.

If you're looking good fish dip there is fantastic.

Yeah.

Hock, just quickly on the lacrosse, the point I was making about John Stevens and him leaving

after my freshman year, we had four wins that year.

He was a good coach and they recruited me and I was one of the top recruits in the country.

And we were headed in the right direction.

And then this guy, Steven, who recruits me to Clark University, he leaves and goes to

the Babsit and the guy that replaced him, Jim Cantrell, was a complete, is that 428,

428 career record, Stevens was 8 and 11 and we lost him.

He was like the Jimmy Johnson of Clark University, Men's LaGrosse.

Come in.

What about different in today's college sports?

You could have went to Babsit and with him in the portal.

I know.

True.

Yeah.

Let's get going.

You were a little, a little too, a little too far away from that.

Yeah.

It was a little too good.

I liked it at Clark where I was the BMOC, you know?

You still believe in 2026 that your name is in some of the Clark record books for LaGrosse.

I did.

I did.

Somewhere in there.

But I got to tell you this John Toto had a career.

I mean, it's a hot, it's got to be.

We never end the With Stu Gods and Hawkman podcast until the big man on campus can name

three athlete nicknames.

Yeah.

Reggie Jackson.

Mr. October.

Very good.

Kenny Stabler.

The snake.

Hmm.

Do I go really difficult here or do I punctuate what has been a fun episode?

Oh, good.

How about.

Yeah.

You're real dig a deep here, huh?

Because I don't know if I want to continue and, uh, oh, about, uh, Adam Jones, Adam Jones.

Adam Jones.

Adam Jones.

He probably never have heard him as Adam Jones before, like, like, there's an Aaron Jones.

Who was Adam Jones, the baseball player, no football player, Adam Jones.

I'm going to say Jonesy.

You know him by, you know him by his nicknames.

You only know him by his nickname.

So this is the rare one where if you gave him the nickname, I would then get his real name.

I don't think you would think legal troubles.

Think video games.

Yeah.

Pac-Man Jones.

Can't help.

Oh, my God.

And I have to start over.

Oh, my God.

You're going to have to start over.

What?

He's done the show all the time, Pac-Man Jones.

You never knew it was Adam Jones, but if you hear just the name Adam Jones, no one

would make that correlation.

No one.

Right.

I thought you meant the Oreo too.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tim Duncan.

Big fundamental.

Very good.

Bryant Reeves.

Big country.

Darryl Johnston.

Moose.

We'll see you on the next episode.

With Stu Gotz and Hawkman.

Tyler Redick here from 2311 Racing.

Victory Lane?

Yeah.

Even better with Chamba by my side.

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Seriously, I insist.

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I'll be silly.

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