Shadows and Spirits with the Southern Ghost Girls, Part One | The Grave Talks

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Today on the Grave Talks, a conversation about paranormal investigations in the south

with a Southern Ghost Girls.

The Southern Ghost Girls tours and paranormal investigations

is a tour and paranormal investigation team

led by founder Leslie Anne Hyde.

The team investigates homes, historical landmarks, museums,

and other places in the Southern US

that are known to have a history of unexplained happenings

and paranormal phenomena.

And the Southern Ghost Girls host investigations

that are open for people who would like to join them.

I'm Carol Hughes and on this episode of the Grave Talks,

we'll talk about many haunted locations

that have been investigated by Leslie Anne Hyde

and the Southern Ghost Girls.

And I want to start with Leslie.

You are the founder of the Southern Ghost Girls.

How did that come about?

What got you interested in even starting a team?

First of all, I have always had experiences,

paranormal experiences, psychic phenomena of experiences.

They started when I was about six years old.

At that time, you know, this was kind of, you know,

this was back in the day.

People didn't really talk about these things,

but you kind of kept all this to yourself.

But as I got older, I would say in my 20s,

I started doing paranormal investigations on my own

and with other teams.

And taking tours anytime I would visit,

you know, travel and vacation, other cities.

They always had ghost walks and ghost tints and things like that.

And I loved the history of everything.

So I got into it that way.

And that was a while back.

And just continuing my whole life,

having these things happen to me,

paranormal phenomena, just all of this,

I mean, in going, traveling to historic places.

And I've traveled, I've traveled all over and everywhere I go,

I try to take a ghost walk or tour or something.

But, you know, just, I guess you could say,

and I always laugh about it.

I felt like I was having a midlife crisis.

I had been doing, I'm an insurance agent during the day.

I've been an insurance actually 30 years.

And I had just become, you know,

it had just not become what I wanted to do.

I was like at a crossroads.

So I formed the team back in 2018.

I made it very particular that I wanted it to be

a group of ladies, all professional ladies,

women with similar interests.

And everyone on the team, I mean, you can,

you can pretty much say, has psychic abilities,

or parent, and have experienced paranormal phenomena.

So I started the team.

We do some, we do private investigations,

and we do our tours, which are open to the public,

so that other people can experience what we experience

in a safe venue, a safe space.

Because I found that a lot of people have these paranormal

experiences throughout their lives.

They keep it to themselves.

They're afraid to speak out about it.

But with our tours, they can come out and experience it

and talk to everyone about it.

So it's just, isn't it phenomenal?

I have just loved every minute of it.

I'm telling you, since I started the group.

And we do the, the tours are actually for fundraising.

And that was one of the things when I started the team,

that's how we got started, is then that's how we were able to

investigate at these historic menus in the Southeast,

mainly Alabama, but it was because I was fundraising

to help them raise money for preservation.

And we still continue to do that today.

That's a great idea.

I'm very proud of how it has, it just took off.

I mean, like our first tour in 2018 was at Arlington,

Historic House, and that's a place in Birmingham,

Alabama that has a long history.

And not a lot of people knew about Arlington.

I had known it for my childhood just from growing up in Birmingham.

Our first tour, we had over 200 people show up,

wanting to do a ghost investigation.

This was like new for Alabama.

I'm telling you because, you know, I mean,

the South is known to be the Bible built.

And just things like this don't go talked about.

So it was like new and, you know, kind of like,

wow, and so many people showed up.

And it has just taken off and grown from there.

And I'm proud of all the girls on the team.

Everybody on the team loves what they do.

And they all volunteer their time.

And it's just been phenomenal.

It's been a wonderful life experience for me.

How many total do you have on the team?

We have active members right now about 10 total members.

And I will have to say, we do have one gentleman that does help us.

His name is Vinnie, and he does help us too.

So it's not exclusively right now all women.

But Vinnie, we love Vinnie.

He helps us a lot.

He loves the technical side of things and the equipment and that kind of thing.

So he's helped us a lot with that.

But I do.

Yeah, we've got like 10 members.

And there's two other of the girls of the two or gods and investigators

own the podcast here with me tonight.

And we have Kristen Blanchard.

I'll start with Kristen first.

Kristen, how did you get involved with the Southern Ghost Girls?

And have you had your own experiences in the past,

you know, like so many of us?

That's kind of what leads us to where we're at tonight.

We've had experiences in the past.

Well, I actually attended one of the tours at Allington as a guest.

And it was so nice to be around other people that were like-minded like me

that have had experiences.

And I went back for a second tour and Leslie came up to me afterwards

and asked if I would consider being a member of the team.

Here we are two years later.

Never looked back.

And I'm so glad that she asked me because I, I love it.

Like Leslie, I love the history.

I was a history major in college along with being a public relations major.

So I focus mainly on the Annabelle himself for my history studies.

So I love Allington.

We call that my permanent venue.

And we are going to talk about some investigations that you've done there.

So I'm excited to talk about that place.

And then we also have Makayla neighbors on with us.

Makayla, how long have you been with the group?

Do you have some paranormal experiences in your past as well?

Hey, yes.

So actually about two years ago, I went on my first tour and I'm over in Georgia.

So when they came over, I was just so excited.

I've always been interested in the paranormal.

So I started with her tours and then got to know Leslie and felt like Kristen said,

I've found my people.

And then as a child, I did have experiences throughout my childhood.

I saw figures that I couldn't explain.

I've heard my name said things like that.

And so just getting to join the Ghost Girls and really learn more

and combine it with my love of history.

It's something I'm just so thankful to be a part of.

And I really enjoy it.

One thing I really appreciate about this group is that you've all mentioned it,

the history part.

I think in order to really understand what's going on at the house,

you really need to understand the history, the house, the museum,

the whatever place you're investigating.

I think the history and the hauntings kind of go hand in hand when it explains the other.

We do.

And that's really one of the things that distinguish us like the difference.

And I'm sorry if there are little pitter-patters in the background.

My daughter just gathering around.

So that is perfectly fine.

You will hear my cats me out at some point, I'm sure.

Sorry.

One of the things you know that distinguishes us or differentiates us,

I think from a lot of like ghost tours and ghost walks is we really do respect the venues

and the places we're investigating at and we tell the real history.

Nothing we do is like theater or anything like that,

whereas I've been on ghost walks before or tours,

and it's more of a theatrical experience.

And it's more like that.

So this is a real deep dive into each venue,

and we explore that venue's past or that place's past.

We do also dress in authentic historical clothing.

I'm very particular about that with the ladies on the team.

You know, it's all of our costumes are historically correct, period.

So we're we're investigating out of place in the 1860s,

then we're going to wear clothing from that era.

If it's 1920s in all of our investigations,

we wear clothing from that era.

And even on our like private investigations,

where we have gone and done private investigations,

we still dress up because we feel that we, you know,

take a deep dive into that historically correct period.

And we are trigger objects where this spirits and ghosts will communicate with us better.

So we're just, you know, and nothing we do is put on our fake or anything like that.

So I always say people are learning about the history

of these important places that we investigate at,

and they're having fun doing it.

And a lot of times people think history is boring, you know.

And we have teenagers and kids come,

and they're still learning the history, and it's not boring.

It's good to see people have in a good time

while still learning the history.

And a lot of these places we investigate at people did not even know about.

They had fallen off the radar years ago,

and they needed or need money for historic preservation.

And it's been really great seeing what our fundraising has done to help.

After that first night, when you went to the Arlington House,

and you had all of those people show up 200, I think you said,

do you limit the size of the tours now?

Yes, yes, yes, we do.

And that, again, that was like, it was just like,

oh my goodness, we were just in shock,

because this was radical for Birmingham.

I'm just telling you, and the news showed up,

and they were covering it live,

200 people, more than 200, and it may have been 250 people show up

at Arlington, and Arlington House tonight.

You know, for the first ever ghost time,

we couldn't fit in all the people.

We didn't run the tour over and over that night.

And I'll give you another example in Jasper, Georgia,

where Michaela is from.

There's a jail there, and the first time we ever

investigated there, you're not going to believe this.

So we had, we had sold online tickets,

but then we had over 700.

I forgot to tell you that 700 people show up trying to get

on a tour.

I mean, it was, it was crazy.

And we ran tours from five to two in the morning.

We didn't even take a break.

It was, it was crazy.

It was, but yes, to back to your question,

we do limit the tours.

It depends on the venue, if we're, you know, at a home,

or I mean, like at a house, a museum, library, wherever we're at.

It usually ranges anytime, anything between 25 to 45 people.

And then we split into smaller groups.

So that's how we make that happen.

But we have had as many as 80 people show up before, though.

And that was, that was fantastic, though.

We made it work.

I was just going to say when that many people show up,

or when the 700 people showed up, you're raising money for these places.

So it really is a win for them because they're getting money.

And it's, that's really the jail, the historical society,

they're in Jasper, Georgia.

I mean, we didn't know really what to expect.

And the tickets were priced very low, like $25.

And people were just coming and groves it with, they were like,

just keep running the tours all that.

And we, we just physically couldn't.

I mean, we were exhausted because, I mean, we started at five.

And like I said, we didn't get 30 to 2 a.m.

And we could have went all night.

But, but we didn't get a break.

We just kept going, going, going, going.

So, but now we do limited that, that venue specifically,

the limits always 45.

And then we break into group three groups of 15.

And we investigate three different locations there at the jail.

Do you also do private investigations if someone had at a home

that they're concerned something's going on?

Do you do anything like that?

No, we do not.

I will tell you, we had some early on.

We had some kind of scary experience,

not with the paranormal, but with the actual people.

So, it was a dangerous situation twice that happened.

And I don't know if we were targeted because we were women,

but these just, you know, disrespect pool,

man, it called up and, hey, we've got a ghost and this and that.

We did go out, but it turned into a bad situation.

So, just for our safety, we don't, we don't go out to people's houses.

And then COVID yet, that's another thing.

So, then you know that, soft it.

But we have done a few since the COVID shutdown,

that we've been very particular about it.

But most of the time, the tours keep us out our toes and busy.

And you just, you know, you just have to watch out in today's world.

Do you get much activity on the tours with the larger groups?

Or is it more sharing experiences that you've had in the building,

along with the history of the, of the property?

I think it's a combination of both.

Michaela, Kristen, do you guys want to talk about that?

What?

Um, yeah.

So, what I personally like to do with my groups as we rotate them through,

we typically do about a 45 minute rotation,

where I'll have a group for 45 minutes, then we'll rotate them to the first group.

I like to guide them through the investigation.

I'll open it up and then I'll let them

take over and I step in if they get stuck on a question or something like that.

For the first, maybe 35 minutes.

And then for like the last five, sometimes 10,

I like to do like a little decompression.

And they can talk about what they get experienced tonight,

or they can ask me questions about the team,

or, you know, we'll just sit there and more share experiences

that we've had throughout our life.

And it really gives like a sense of community.

And it's just, it's a beautiful thing to see.

I love that idea of the decompression.

Because I think sometimes when you go into an experience like that,

it might be a little intense.

And the decompression is nice and that kind of community

that you create.

I love that.

I think that's great.

Michaela, do you have any certain type of approach

when you take a group through?

Yeah.

So I like to kind of just open it up.

Like Kristin said, show them all the equipment we get started.

And then I love that it's interactive.

So if I'm using the dowsing rods,

I like to ask the spirit that we're talking to.

Who would you like to talk to through the rods next?

And of course, they'll point to someone.

And I think that's really neat

that they're able to use the same equipment.

They ask their questions and it's interactive.

And like Kristin said at the end,

we do kind of say, you know, how did that feel?

Did anyone have any feelings?

And you know, we encourage them to speak up

throughout our investigation.

Like, if you feel sad

or if you feel something touch you,

let's talk about it.

Let's try and figure out what's going on.

What may have happened in history

that who we're talking to just kind of match up their story.

So that's kind of how I approach it.

And the emotions can be a big part of it too

as you're taking a tour like that.

You can suddenly feel really overwhelmingly sad.

And you're not, you don't even know where it's coming from.

Right. We do have a lot that actually

it's pretty common for them to tear up.

And you know, if someone does do that,

we usually pull them out and say,

hey, go get some fresh air

and then come back in and talk to us.

It can be overwhelming.

We've had some get incredibly scared and spooked.

I had one lady, she was so,

she was a skeptics.

She did not believe in it at all.

And the rod actually insisted,

you know, the spirit kept pointing to her with the rods.

And when it was through,

it was shoot, her mind was blown.

And it was, it was like a novice laughter.

But she's, I remember her coming up to Leslie

and I at the end of the tour and saying,

okay, I've got to really evaluate my life.

Now, y'all have really opened my eyes.

And, you know, it's amazing to be able to help somebody like that.

That's really powerful.

And then also, like Christian was saying,

we have skeptics come.

But we, you know, and we open the tours to everyone.

You know, we don't, I mean, we love everyone.

And you have, you know, people who are agnostic

or atheist or are whatever their religion is.

And they have come and had something will happen to them.

They will have a life-changing breakthrough

or experience at the investigation.

And like Christian said, they're like,

I need to re-evaluate my thoughts on this

because I don't, I've got some conflicting, you know,

ideas about this.

And we've just seen, we've just seen it all.

And that is so gratifying and wonderful.

And just, I mean, to be able to help people,

that's what I think this is all about,

is helping people understand this,

understand their feelings, experience it in a safe space.

And just, it's just wonderful.

It is just, I absolutely love it.

Another thing that we, as my group does,

I've not experienced this at any other places

that I've taken tours.

We do a lot of individual, like, medium-ship work

with people that are there on the tours or investigations.

We help them reach out to loved ones.

We also may do a psychic, you know, reading.

Now, it's not like a, you know, a long reading,

but we will give people messages.

And we'll have people's loved ones, friends, family

who have passed come through using the dowsing rods

or using the tipping table or whatever we're doing at the time.

And they are so mind-blown

that they have reached out to their loved ones.

And it's just, it's incredible.

And we don't, we don't charge extra for any of that.

You know, we don't, I mean, this has not,

well, you know, that's just really not what it's about

with us.

It's a great experience for people.

And those kind of experiences, you don't even plan those.

Sometimes they do, the loved ones just come through.

And it's not planned, it just happens.

It really does.

Like Leslie said, and Leslie was there for this one.

We did an investigation recently in Scots for Alabama.

And we kept having a spirit come through.

I was leading the tipping table session.

And it ended up being my own grandmother

who has never come through before.

I wasn't trying to channel her.

Leslie wasn't trying to channel her.

And she was adamant

that she was going to speak to me that night.

Now explain to me the tipping table.

I'm not familiar with that.

Well, that's really one of the things that

is another differentiating piece of equipment

that my team uses.

And I'll tell you why, we again are so

much wanting to be historically correct in our investigations.

We use old-school old-style methods of investigation

equipment, such as dousing rods, the tipping table,

pendulums, things like that.

But then we also have the hot tech brand

new paranormal investigation equipment that's

hot right now that people see on the TV shows.

But I'll tell you, we get a lot of our best

evidence using the old-fashioned methods.

So the tipping table is a Victorian style of equipment,

basically, that the Victorian started

using really around the time of the Civil War.

People use this to reach out to the ones that have passed.

I know Abraham Lincoln and Mary Tom Lincoln

are both documentaries using one Queen Victoria did.

Albert Einstein used one to communicate.

And so we all, it's basically ours.

You know, you can use just a regular table and you can actually have the table.

You can use it. You sit it in the middle of the room.

We all gather around it. Everyone's lightly put their fingertips

onto the table and we start communicating with spirit to ask spirit

to move the table counterclockwise, clockwise to the right lift.

Tell us you're here and then we ask questions.

And the table actually will move when spirit is communicating with us,

answering the questions we are asking.

And it's just a antique Victorian table with a marble top that does have.

It does turn on top, kind of like a lazy Susan.

And that is like probably one of our most favorite pieces of equipment.

And the people on the investigations and the tours have never seen anything like it.

I don't know if any other groups are tour companies

or investigation teams that use it the only one that I do know

and where I learned the technique was from

Lucky Bel Camino and she's a paranormal society of New England.

And I went to a seminar with her and she taught and explained

how to use the tipping table.

So it was just, it really resonated with us because we try to go back.

I mean, the history of it.

It's awesome. I mean, I know McKaylen, you know, they love it too.

And McKaylen and Kristen both.

And when you do it and you see it turn and it starts

turning on its own to answer your questions, you are blown away.

McKaylen, have you had any really unique experiences with it?

Oh, yeah. So I love the tipping table.

It's so neat when we offer like the personal readings through it.

I know it provides so much confirmation for some people

and they can reach their loved ones.

And for me, I've had a few times where we're talking to a family member

and you can just feel the energy coming off the table.

It's like, love.

And I mean, you just want to tear up.

And then too, I always encourage, I'm like, ask a question

only they would know or ask a trip question.

And a lot of times, you know, it's just it furthers their

confirmation and it went, when it answers correctly,

it's just a really neat piece of equipment.

That's so interesting because I had never heard of it.

But now with that explanation that Leslie just gave,

I get why you use it.

It really does fit into what you do.

And one time we were doing it and it was a personal reading

and just a kind of tie-in how we are sensitive.

Um, we were talking to this guy's mother who passed away

and there's me, the guy and two other people around the table.

And all of a sudden, I just get this like incredible chest pain.

And I said, did she pass the way of something from the chest?

And he said, yes, congestive heart failure.

And it was just like, oh my gosh, you know, at that time,

it's just almost like chills and electrifying.

And that's such strong confirmation when that happens.

Because you could have gotten a pain anywhere or nowhere.

And let's talk about some of the locations where you've

investigated. And I really want to start with the Arlington House

because that one was been mentioned in Birmingham.

Would one of you like to start with kind of the history of the building?

Because this is a really old home.

And I think I read where maybe they started building it

around 1822 or sometime in there.

But it's a very old, old home.

Arlington House, I'll be honest with you.

It is just a hidden jewel in the middle of Birmingham, Alabama,

that again, like you just said, you know, the land and everything.

And it was actually started out as like a log cabin

that was just there like in the 1820s.

And then in the 1840s, it started being expanded and built

to how it is today.

And it was purchased by Judge William Mud.

And he was a very prominent businessman from the Carolinas

who had moved to Alabama to settle there.

And so he was one of the founders of Birmingham actually.

But he was there and raised a family of 10 children

during the Civil War times.

So Judge Mud was there.

But the interesting thing about it is that it was actually a big part,

well, not a big part as a battle.

But it played a part in the Union soldiers.

There were 13,000 Union soldiers that took over Arlington House

and camped there.

They took it over.

General Wilson of the Union Army stayed there, took it over.

Judge Mud and his family continued to stay there.

And they actually were both mason's.

And it is believed that the reason Arlington House

survived everything else was burned between here and, you know,

all over Alabama.

Test police everywhere was burned down except for Arlington House.

And we think Arlington House was saved because they were both

hired for the mason's at the time.

It has got literally so many spirits that steal Rome

that beautiful mansion.

Judge Mud and his wife Laurence being one and his children.

It's incredible.

The spirits.

It is probably my favorite place to investigate.

You've got Union soldiers buried on the ground.

You've got the mud family that's connected.

You've got other families that are connected.

It's very interesting.

But there's a love story that is connected to the house.

And I'll let Kristen talk a little bit about that.

I was actually doing some research in the archival records and stuff

Leslie.

And it is on record that general Wilson and Judge mud made it

the oldest to save Arlington.

So there is an actual record of that.

I thought that was fascinating.

There is a love story connected to the house.

And it revolves around Judge mud's oldest son, Billy Earl.

And his girlfriend, Betsy, when the war started,

Billy Earl went off to fight for the Confederate army.

And before he left, he took Betsy into the yard.

And it's believed that they were standing by a tree of some sort.

We don't know for sure exactly where the tree was.

But he picked up a site that was laying on the ground

and pledged his love to Betsy and said something along the lines of

as long as the site remains in the tree, I will always love you

and swung the site into the tree and left it there.

Well, sadly, he was killed two weeks after leaving for battle.

He never even saw the front lines.

There was a freak out for their attack of some kind.

And he was beheaded when a cannonball stepped his tent.

So, of course, he never got to come home.

They never got to get married.

The tree grew.

The site remained in the tree.

The handle blotted off.

And the site was forgotten about.

Until about this late 70s, early 80s, I believe,

when a big storm came through Birmingham.

And lightning struck one of the trees on the property

and split it open and revealed the site.

And the site now hangs in the study.

It's got a little plaque on the wall that explains what it is.

And a chunk of the tree that the site came out of

is also sitting there under the site.

And we fully believe that Billy All's spirit is there at the house.

We can ask him to show us where the site is

using the thousand rods and he will point to the study every time.

I can ask him to give me a hug with the rods

and the rods will spin around and touch my shoulders.

I don't know what it was about that story,

but I literally got goosebumps when you said that the tree was split,

was struck by lightning and split.

And that's how it was exposed again.

That literally gave me goosebumps right then.

Do you think that's every time?

It's amazing.

Do you think that she is still in the house?

So, I like to think of the two of them being together.

I believe definitely she is there.

It's such a strong love story.

For this site to appear, you know, 120 years later.

And I mean, it's there.

So it's an actual object that is in the house,

like Kristen was saying, it's up on the wall.

They have it in a display case and they actually have a part of the tree.

And she does come through as well as Billy All.

And really, the mud family, judge mud is so prevalent there.

And it's why Florence.

And we have really, that's one thing I want to say,

is that because we've been back there so many times,

and I think the spirit is really actually know us.

I mean, it's like they're comfortable with us.

And it's like every time we investigate,

we get more evidence coming through

and we learn more about their story.

So all of them, you know, that are still there.

I do believe there's just, it's almost,

I'm not sure if you want to call it a residual haunting or, you know,

but they are definitely part of that house, 100%.

Michaela, have you had any experiences in the house?

I'm going to assume yes, because it sounds so active there.

Yes, so I've only actually been to Arlington once

because it is quite a journey.

But the time I was there, I was down in judge mud's office,

and we had this device call the coffin box.

And so when it picks up motion,

it will play this creepy little wind-up tune,

like the music box.

Oh, and it's really creepy,

but it's one of my favorite pieces of equipment.

We had it on the piano.

And I mean, it would go on command.

And it would just play like they were walking back and forth

and they're non-stop.

So Arlington is definitely very active.

I want to tell you a story.

This is really mind-blowing to me also.

We host murder mystery dinners there too.

And the people that come to the murder mystery dinners are not ghost hunters.

And so you have a different type of crowd.

We had, we had gotten everyone checked in

to the murder mystery dinner event.

Everybody was settling in and having their dinner,

served by Chef Matt.

And we had a couple that came in late.

And they pulled up and they went into the house

before they went into the dining room

where we were having our dinner.

And these people did not look like

your typical people that come to our ghost hunts.

I mean, they were, you could tell.

They was an older couple and they were not,

you know, they were not really wanting,

they were just wanting the mystery dinner, right?

And so they go into the house and they come back

and just running down and out of the door.

And they come up to the security guard.

And I'm standing there.

And a mom was standing there in the door.

I remember and they were like,

Hey, hey, there's somebody's child is upstairs.

And they're running around upstairs in the mansion.

And they're going to get hurt

because there's a huge, like a very, you know,

state and low banistered stairwell there.

They're like, whose little girl is this?

We all like to do each other and we knew we were like,

there is no little girl because no one there

had any children at the murder mystery dinner event.

And he's like, somebody's going there

because that little girl, I said, what does she look like?

And he said, oh, she's like, maybe five years old

and she's got blonde curly hair and like a white dress.

And we knew exactly what he was talking about

or who he was talking about.

And that is the little ghost of Mary that is at the house.

And she has shown herself to people throughout the years.

She'll walk in with people who are visiting

and then walk through the gift shop.

People have seen her in the gift shop,

in the dining room, in the house.

And that really confirmed it

because this is the person that did not come for a guest time.

You know, they were not into the paranormal

and they actually were reporting to me in the security guard.

There is a little blonde-headed girl

that's about to get hurt upstairs in the house running around.

Now, is that not incredible?

Were you able to convince them there was not a girl

or did they leave really thinking?

We did not tell them.

We did not tell them.

Eric, this security guard said, okay, let me check it out.

So he went in there and of course, I wasn't there.

There was nothing, but there was no one there.

So we just let that couple go on and sit down

and have their dinner.

That was just really convincing,

but you know, people that just come to the dinner,

she showed herself.

And that's how real it was to them.

They went and told somebody, you know,

this girl's going to get hurt?

Yes, like this little five or six-year-old girl

is running around upstairs.

She's going to fall off,

because the manager at the stairwell is pretty low.

You know, it's not not very safe up there

for a little kid to be running around.

And we knew exactly.

We looked at it, we all looked at each other and went,

oh my goodness, that's the ghost of Mary.

And she has shown herself again.

And that wraps up part one of our conversation

with the Southern Ghost Girls.

If you'd like more information about what they do

and perhaps join them on a ghost tour,

visit their website,

southernghostgirls.com.

If you'd like access to all of our episodes,

including the archive and advanced episodes,

everything commercial-free, become a grave keeper.

Sign up on Apple Podcast,

and you can try it three days free.

You can also go to patreon.com slash the grave tox

and find everything there all ad-free.

For all of us here at the grave tox,

I'm Carol Hughes, and thank you for listening.

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