She Lost Two Brothers. She Chose to Live in Color

0:00My dad's voice on the other side of the phone was just so helpless. He sounded like a child, like really worried about his son and what he could do. Meanwhile, my mom, you know, having just lost a son, was devastated at the prospect of her son, her second son, not coming home. Hi. How's Pilot? Pilot's good. Is he flying? Yeah, actually he is flying. Yes. Oh, we're good. Alright, let's do this. Let's do this. Let's just get started. I'm not looking at myself. Alright, 245. Hard out. Perfect. Hard out. It's like TV days. Yeah, no, Pilot's good. He's literally flying right now. Where is he going? I don't know where he went. I have absolutely no, I never know. I guess you can't really know. Right? Well, he has it so busy.

1:03He has a calendar and I can see where he goes. Oh, but then he switches at half the time. So I half the time, look at it. It's great. Anyway, I only see him like half the time. Which is great. Yeah, kind of. Anyway, alright. So shall we do this? Yes, let's do this. Hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello, hello. How are you testing? That looks fat. Okay. Yeah, you have the levels. We should be good just, you know, you don't need headphones. This is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm loud. So oh, yeah, I'm loud too. I'm screaming half the time. Okay, you're ready to go ready. Hi. Alright. Welcome to unscripted turbulence. I'm your host, Reagan Mejie. A warning about today. It is going to be a heavy episode. We're going to have laughs. Yes, we're going to have. We're going to have tears. It's this is. I was trying to think about how to explain this episode. Rather the gate and I think heavy is probably the best way to explain it. I'm joined by my beautiful, gorgeous, stunning, strong friend,

2:03and Thula cats to Matidis. Good job. Yeah, right. Being married to a Greek is helped. Yes. I know, right? I just say Ticani's. Galaa. Very good. I'm good. That's about all I know. That's good. That's all you need, sweetheart. I know. Sakapo. I love you too. Oh, no. So now, Aunt Thula and I have known each other for a while. Soon after I moved to Astoria, we started working out at Sage Fitness, RIP. It's no longer there. Sad. Yeah. But you know, but it was good times. Oh my gosh, it was so good. So I think the last thing we hung out was when we were in our tight fitting. Probably. Lea Tards. Sweating or butts off. Now, you can curse on this podcast. Oh, that's great. So like you just like release it. I try not to say the effort, but if you say the effort, which I think you have clearance to do so with your story, by all means. Now, if it comes out of me, it's not the worst thing. It's not like my news direct. It's going to pull me off. Oh, that's right. I'm not in the news anymore.

3:05I can say anything I want. Yeah, freedom. All right. So Aunt Thula, let's start with your title. My title? You've got quite a lot of different places. I do. I do. But currently I am just an actor. Just an actor. Just an actor. And a producer sometimes. And do I have to keep leaning in just kidding? And a writer and a storyteller. So a lot like you. Yeah. And I think the title is probably the nonprofit board of directors that I sit on that I volunteer for. It's the National September 11th Memorial Museum. I'm a board member. Which is something that I do wholeheartedly with every five or my being try to help the 9-11 Memorial Museum and we'll get into that. Yeah. I'm also a wife. Very happy wife. Yeah. As of three years now.

4:09And again, congratulations. Thank you. Never too late to find love. Y'all never told me. Oh, well, I, I'm going to get into that too. I'm going to get into all the things. So born and raised, where are you born in? A story of general hospital. All case. So you are a story. I didn't know if you were the, the like one of the islands. No, no, no, my mom and dad were born in Greece. And I miss you. Neseed us. It's sandwiched between costs and roads and the, though the Kines Islands. They were both born there. They immigrated here. Met got married. Had four kids. I think they were in Hell's Kitchen and then they moved to a story, which is really the enclave of, you know, kind of the Greek population. Yeah. All the Greeks lived at a time. And when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s, it was very, very Greek and very, very Italian and Irish. And now it's like this cosmopolitan little place. You know, it's great. Did you see, was it called Legouli? Legouli? Legouli close. I know. But they say they're coming back. So we'll see. I don't know. It is very sad. And that's an

5:12Italian bakery just for people who don't know. It's on dip arms Boulevard in a story. It's been there for like 98 years. And I believe. Has it been 98? Something like that. I think. Oh gosh, Frank Sinatra used to go there to get his big goods. I would. I mean, that's a fact. I mean, that's an interesting little fact. Somebody told me that somebody from the neighborhood in a talling guy who I worked with at W ABC. That's great. Told me the story is like, oh, yeah, back in the day around the, you know, in the neighborhood. It's always in the neighborhood. Yeah. And a story was a great neighborhood. Yeah. Now it's become a little less of a neighborhood because of all the high rises and. Well, yeah. And then you have people like me who are not from the area. No, we don't mind. I mean, okay, listen, I'm not there a while. And your husband's been there a long time. Right? No. Pilot is not. Okay. So pilots not from a story. Yeah. He's actually was born in Cedar Grove, New Jersey, then moved to Bethlehem when I met him. Oh, that in, you know, so we're three years apart. He's older than I am. And then you settled in a story. And then

6:12we sit like settlers like the pioneers. But you've been there a long time. Yes. In 2017, because his cousins are all over there. It just made sense. It does make sense. They're all, they're all and they're probably listening to this. We just kind of grab it. They're all together. Yes. It's lovely. It's like a commu. It is. And then they have houses out in Matatuck and in Greenport. That's correct. Guilty is charged. Yeah. You do? Of course I do. Where do you think we summer? Do you think we get afford to go to Greece every summer now? We summered in Long Island in Greenport. We had rented cabins and hung out with other Greeks and my aunt, Uncle, on the Atlantic restaurant. And I used to bus tables there and be a waitress. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So side note, when my big fat Greek wedding came out. Yes. Was that like an ode to the culture? Was that like, like, not an ode to the culture? You know what I mean? Because like, it could be taken two different ways. Yeah. I think I think she did an excellent job of showcasing our culture, the good and the bad and the ugly. The only thing that I that I didn't experience was

7:15my father did not want me to not get an education. Like they were very, very clear on making sure we got an education before we got married. And I don't think my father ever brought home a fat ugly man for me to entertain marrying. So that was different too. But I love that movie. I love that movie because it does show how Greeks are into themselves, but they're also inclusive. They can be inclusive when they're children. Warm, yeah. Warm, and inclusive. And y'all are so warm. Yeah. I know. Y'all like I'm Southern. I'm not. I'm slow about Ukrainian, but like I'm American. I'm like American. I'm American. I'm American. Like that. I mean, I'm American too. I'm a third generation. They're general. Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, my parents were born in Greece. So I guess that makes me what? Your first generation. Yeah. Pilots first generations. Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's something wonderful about that because we inherit all these wonderful qualities from our immigrant parents, right? And so I mean, when someone told me that I am not allowed

8:19to interact or speak to or hug or touch the king and the queen of England, for example. Oh, we're going to get to that. I'm huh. That went right over my head because I was like, this Greek American girl. Mm-hmm. Can't do it. Got a hug. I'm a hugger. Okay. So I'm going to put a pin in that because we're going to get there. All right. So born, raised, destroyed, had a Greek American. Went to Greek school three brothers or four of us, three boys. Okay. Okay. George, John and Thula, Michael. Okay. Okay. That order. And I was sandwiched between John and Michael and George is the oldest. Okay. Okay. Okay. John and Michael and George. Okay. All right. So then went to school here. Went to Pia 70. Junior high school. Ten. Brian. High school. All the local hotspots. Yeah. Yeah. So we all in the same area. Like all the schools were in the same neighborhood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We used to live on the other side of a story, which is the story of side versus the Dittmar side. Oh, yeah. So we all used to walk to school with our grandparents or whatnot or together or whatnot. And then we went to college, obviously, in the city.

9:23But who would you go? I went to Baruch. That's only, which is an incredible education, by the way. CUNY. CUNY University. Yeah. City University of New York because my brother, John, who was older than me went to CUNY. And then I went to CUNY. And then Michael went to CUNY. We all went to Baruch. George was the first born son. So he got to go to a private college. Who went to NYU? Oh, he did. He went to NYU. And then the next time we're like, we'll get scholarships. So we got scholarships. And we went to Baruch. But I never wanted to go to a business college. I wanted to do something a little more creative. Actually, what I wanted to do was go to an Ivy League school. But even though I had the grades for it, my parents were never going to let me leave the house. And so I had to go to the college that my brother went to so that he could watch over me, which I think at the end of the day, the fact that the three of us went to the same college. And we were only a year apart made for a wonderful time, you know, in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It really did. And I studied advertising. And that was the most creative thing I could do. And I worked in an ad agency for several years. I was an account executive.

10:27You don't know that about me. No, I don't. There's things I'm going to find out about at Bula. That just never came up. Well, we were, I don't know dead lifting 130 pounds or make it squatting. And remember those days. Okay. I was thinking about that today. That sage. I was really, that was cool. I like met a lot of good girlfriends there. You, my friend Sherry. Oh, yeah. Nina and Ellie. Ellie. Yeah. It was a great place. You know, I've transformed our bodies. It was great. And our minds lift weights people. I know I'm still lifting weight. I know you are. I want you to be on my Instagram. It's great. I don't look the most attractive. My mom, my mom goes, um, so like leave it to your mother to insult you. Go ahead. Right. She says she goes, so, um, like I, I know when I don't wear makeup, I kind of look a little wild. Like maybe you wouldn't know where and I go, probably not a good thing to say to me. And I'm like, mom, I'm like, I was on TV for how long I'm sick and tired of all the makeup. She goes, well, I mean, I'm, I don't, I'm like, mom, I don't care how I look. Like I'm not there to get like

11:29numbers for men. Although I do. There is some guy that loves my feet. You knew that was going to happen. It was your feet. My feet. Yeah. He's always like, he has a foot fetish. Oh, I guess so. Are you being like when you do your, I am. But I'm not like focusing on my feet. I'm like, well, this podcast doesn't do well. I know where I can go. Let's not go there. Pictures. Let go there. Maybe I can lift like you know, wait with my feet. First of all, you are beautiful without makeup. So thank you. Number one, ma. As are you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I don't know. My mom was just like, yeah, a little wild. She cares about it. Yeah. She sees me on the screen. So she thinks probably I should always have makeup on. I have makeup on now. Good. But she looks good. But it's light makeup. It's not what you do for TV. Like, like, Shalak, I used to put on my face. It's funny. I just did, I just shot something in LA and I can't talk about it. But I know I was hoping you would, but we'll get to that later too. I'm gonna squeeze a little bit information. But my makeup, I will tell you a little bit, but my makeup artist had to make sure that I looked horrible. So I looked horrible. It was the reverse. Instead of glaming me up, I was glammed out. It was bad. Yeah.

12:34Oh my god. I'm just sick person playing a sick person. Oh, so I had to look sickly. Oh, like I had been throwing up all night. So they had to purposely get rid of this Mediterranean olive. That's a lot of that's a lot of trying to get rid of a lot of the Mediterranean on white makeup. Light makeup. I say it was funny. I should just give you my makeup. So you could help out that makeup artist a little bit. It was an art form for him. He loved making me look pale. It's hard to do. Yeah. Really hard to do. Anyway, anyway. So advertising. Yeah, I was an advertising for a while. And then I fell in love in Greece. The first time I went to Greece, I think I was like 19 years old, which is wild because I speak Greek fluently. But that's because of Saint Dmitrius Greek Orthodox Church in the story. Yeah. I had gone as a all Greek kids. My generation went to Greek afternoon school. So we had regular school. We called it American school. And then we went to Greek school. And we also went to Greek school on Saturdays. So like it or not,

13:37you spoke Greek in the house. Like my dad only spoke Greek. You know, my mom spoke both. So that was helpful. Yeah. But like it or not, you learned Greek. And so I'm grateful for that now. Yeah. I love when you guys can break into that. I'm like, I can pick up my three words. We go in and out. It's great. But I wasn't, you know, we couldn't afford to go to Greece when I was younger. So the first time I could is like, you know, I saved on my little pennies. And I went to Greece when I was 19. And much to my father's dismay, I fell in love. And I thought, oh, this is it. I'm going to move to Greece. And I'm going to open up like a from the studio, which is a tutoring, you know, and I was going to teach English as a second language, right? Oh, that's brilliant. Brilliant. Yeah. I never moved to Greece. The guys that are being an idiot. But I mean, we were 12. They all, but no, we landed two pretty good guys. We landed some good guys. But I, because of that, I decided I was going to get my master's degree and teach ESL so that I could get that knowledge and then take it with me to Greece. Well, I signed up for a master's program

14:38at Queens College, another CUNY in the evening. And I was going to work during the day. And the job that I got was CUNY had this, I don't know if they still do it, but it was this wonderful program called the CUNY CAPS system. And you were enlisted as a cheerleader for the CUNY system. And so you were assigned high schools and you would go into the high schools and you would explain the benefits to the 11th graders of going to a CUNY school versus a private university. You know, big, big fish in a small pond kind of concept, right? So I had three high schools. One of them was Bayside High School. And after giving a few of these lectures to the 11th graders, the department chair of the foreign language, English as a second language head, the chair of that department came to me and said, do you think you can give a presentation like that to the ESL population? And I said, Oh, I'm getting my master's degree in the evening because I want to do that. So sure. So I gave some presentations and she immediately hired me to be an ESL teacher. I hadn't even finished

15:42a semester of my master's program. Like I hadn't even done English 101. Like I, education 101, I never student taught. I just was thrown into a classroom and taught ESL while getting my master's in education. Wow. You lucked out. I did. I lucked out. And it was a wonderful experience. And I did that for everything. All of my careers lasted like advertising was about four years and then teaching was about four years. And then May of 99, my life changed. And I took a step bow from teaching that all I know is when we would work out one of my my cousins, I mentioned you and he was like, Oh, Gus, Gus Antonopoulos, right? I love Gus. I love you guys. I love you guys. And he was like, yeah, she has had some kind of some trauma in her life and mentioned. But I don't know all the details on this. So I'll start. I'll tell you. And it's so funny how you know people in the community and how community really comes together in the face of tragedy, right? And Gus

16:46Antonopoulos and his brother, I mean, just his whole family, just wonderful people that supported us so much because they ran the funeral home. Did they? I was going to I was well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It almost became like we could depend on Gus. I knew that I could depend on a a shoulder to cry. I mean, I had countless friends. I'm already going to. I'm already sorry. Just a whole idea. Don't do that yet. But we had like because he is. He's just he's an angel walking the surface angel. He really is. He's a lovely human being. And so he's pilots first cousin just so people can understand the connection. Yeah. He was such a wonderful human being. Anyway, in May of 99, I'm just going to say this, my younger brother, Michael, who was 25 at the time, he committed suicide. And in retrospect, I believe that he was obviously mentally ill. And I spent a lot of time after that event kind of delving deep into the previous two years and what we had experienced

17:55with Michael. And I kind of diagnosed him myself as bipolar. You know, you're always you're grasping for that ever. You know, you're always asking why? You know, why? And how did this happen? And how did we miss it? There was a lot of unanswered questions. Obviously, you know, it wasn't one of these dramatic things where he left a note or anything like that. No, he didn't. No. And it wasn't. It we really felt like we were hit out of the blue. It came out of the blue. We were sideswiped. And I think that a family as tight in it as we were would of course feel that way. You know, because even if there were signs, Reagan, we didn't see them. Yeah. Or maybe we didn't want to see them or maybe we thought, okay, this is a problem. But never in our mind, did we think that it would it would lead to that? You know, suicide was a thing that didn't happen to us,

18:55to our people, our family. We had never experienced anyone that we ever knew a friends or family like that had to endure someone committing suicide. So it was something so foreign. And so really kind of unexpected that made it a thousand times harder. You know, and of course, there's such a taboo, right? That goes along with committing suicide. Like, there's a religious taboo. There's what will people think taboo? I never thought of that. Which one? The taboo associated with suicide? Yeah. Like, I never like, you're going through such levels of grief. The religious, yeah, depending upon what religion, I guess the question is, where do they go if you are a believer? And then I guess people wondering like, why? How? Yes. And you know, in most religions, are for sure,

19:58you know, our our body is a temple. It's sacred. God gave it to you. You need to nurture it and care for it. And if someone takes his own life, it's considered unorthodox. You know, it's considered wrong. Right? So I remember at the time my mom being very, very concerned. And this is something I'm saying for the first time actually out loud to the public. But very concerned, the poor thing about whether or not Michael would receive a proper Greek Orthodox Christian burial as a result of how he died. Yeah. It was a very... Whoa, I did not see that. Where does this come from? How was it? Yeah. Yeah. It was it was an awful, awful kind of question that we had to grapple with. And my spiritual father at the time, father Alex Carluzos, who I absolutely adore, I called him

20:58and explained the situation and he said, well, on through that sounds like your brother was sick. So of course he's going to get a proper burial. You know, the church doesn't think that what he did was a sin. You know, he found pity, I guess, our church found pity on, finds pity on people who take their lives because they obviously are not in the right frame of mind, right? They're not healthy. And so yes, Michael did get a proper burial. Thank you for my mom's sake and all of our sakes. But, you know, I think people tend to shy away from talking about how their loved one died if they committed suicide because of this other taboo. You know, the, oh, what was your brother crazy? Oh, well, the, you know, the hell was wrong with him, you know, like who the hell would do that? You know, why? How big question? Always. How did he commit suicide? People are fascinated. Yeah. And how

22:01do you, how do you handle that question? And do you answer it? And is it even anybody's business? So I, I keep are curious people are curious and, and you know, I found that in the beginning, I was, these questions hurt me because I was grieving. But then I realized that the more I spoke about it, the more I could, I don't know, this is going to sound cliche, but prevent it from happening again, right? So I became this advocate for suicide prevention and mental health awareness. Because mental illness is a real thing. It's a real disease, just like cancer, you know, I mean, it's a real disease. But because of the taboo associated with it, it doesn't get the attention it deserves, right? So I thought I was going to be that person who was going to call attention to this and, you know, make sure it doesn't happen again. If I could just save one life, you know, that whole

23:02concept, right? In memory of my brother, I thought I was going to do this as a tribute to him. And I wasn't going to shy away from it. I wasn't going to worry about what people would think of him or me or my family if they found out that he committed suicide. I just thought he needed to be talked about to just, you know, get it out there, have the conversation, start talking about it, you know, and I went to like, I went to suicide survivor groups. There's a wonderful organization in New York City. It's called the Samaritans. And they have the only New York City, the only hotline in New York City, where you can call if you're experiencing dark thoughts and, you know, they help you. It's a 24 hour hotline. So I found this Samaritans group because they offered suicide survivor groups. And I would sit with other siblings who lost their, you know, siblings and talk about what it felt like and talk about, you know, why did I do more? And how could I, how could I have

24:08prevented this? How could I have saved him? That was a thought that I wrestled with for an extremely long time. Because of course, in retrospect, I started seeing things, you know, that like, oh my God, he did this. And why didn't I see that? And why didn't I think that this was a symptom, you know, and so your mind starts to play games with you. And you're like, well, I could have saved him. And I learned in this suicide prevention group that it really wasn't up to me. It was up to him as a human being to want to get help. Because I tried to get him help when I thought he needed some help when I thought he needed to talk to someone. And he did not want it. I actually forced him to go to a therapist once simply because he had a lot of questions about his life. And he was curious about his future going forward and really worried about his future.

25:12So I thought he would help if he spoke to someone. And after his session, I remember the therapist telling me, and Thula, I think it's wonderful that you've brought your brother here, but I can't treat anyone who doesn't want to be treated. You know, Michael went as a favorite of me. But he did not want to be treated because he did not think there was anything wrong with him. Right. So short of, and this is a fact, this was told to me, short of having an institution come and take him away in a straight jacket, there was really nothing that we could do. And now things might have changed. It's been over 25 years. And that was the last thing that we wanted to do to him. There was no way my parents were going to have their kids kid being taken out of the house in a straight jacket. It was just wild. And of course, now in retrospect, of course, you think, well, maybe a little pill would have helped him. And maybe he'd still be here today and you have all these crazy thoughts. But I've learned that I cannot think like that. I have to just believe that he is

26:20relieved. He was relieving himself of the burden that he was carrying. And then as we grieved, Michael, my brother, John was really our saving grace because I was lucky enough to have my older brother, John, second born because it's George John, you and Michael. Right. I had John who was this, at that time, he was this crazy spitfire, like larger than life, gregarious, happy, colorful person that would make us all laugh. And even my mom, you know, he was the kind of guy that would prance around the room in hot pink underwear. Okay. For my mom to laugh. And she laughed. You really couldn't avoid laughing. And so he helped us get through that really difficult period. You know, he was the one that we could lean on. And he was the one that, you know,

27:24in the Greek culture, it's customary that you wear black after a death, right? So my mom has been wearing black for 28 years now, only black, not a stitch of white, not even in the stitching, nothing for 28 years. And I wore black for a year after my brother, Michael, I remember you telling me this when you were working out because you're like, yeah, I wore black for so long. And I just like started introducing color into my wardrobe. Yes. Remember I was surprised because you were very colorful. I was like, I was like, lady, I was like, wait, what? Very loud colors. And the reason for that people don't know some people do some people don't you may not know this is because John got furious with me. And he said, Mikey would not want you to be in black. And you are only, you know, 26 years old. And you should be in color. And you got to live your life in color. Thula, what are you doing? You're beautiful. Your young mom's a different story. You should be in color.

28:28I want you to take that black shit off. I don't want to see you in black, you know, he was very funny. He was very funny. And you know, he says, that's how you should live. You should live your life in color. And I held on to that. And it transformed my entire life going forward. What kind of guy was Mikey? My Mikey. Oh, my little Mikey. Michael was the baby of the family, right? So he got teased a lot. We used to say he was the milkman son. We didn't even have a milkman. Come on in the 70s, right? There was no milkman. But he was so easy to be teased. And oh, we were Irish twins. So I was born in January of 72. And he, January 15th, and he was born January 8th of 73. Right? So for one week, we were the same age. Oh, that's cool. And so he would often say to me that week, you know, you're not my older sister this week. So you can't pick on me. You know, we're the same age this week. So, you know,

29:34it was just really funny. I remember he went away for a weekend and I had the little room and he had the bigger room. And I switched rooms on him. And he came back and he was furious. He said, who told you get the bigger room? I said, I'm older. No, you're not. No, you're not. I was, right? But Michael was the kind of person that, you know, people say their bark is worse than their bite or all bark. No bite. That was Michael. Like, and he didn't even have a bark, you know, he would like question something because he thought he had to. But then he was like, that's all right, Tula. It's all right, honey. You know, he was the guy who before the Black Friday became like, what is it? Awful Thursday and Wednesday or whatever. Like he would be the one who would buy all of our Christmas gifts way before Black Friday, before Black Friday was a thing. Yeah. And wrap them up and hide them way in advance. He was an accountant. So he was, oh, well, statistically, like very smart and very organized. And so he would do that way in advance. And then

30:43even if some of us forgot to get each other gifts, like Michael always had a gift for everyone. Yeah, he was very warm and loving and giving. And so smart. He was an unbelievable Yankees fan. He was incredible athlete. He would rattle off Yankees statistics. Like, oh my god, like nobody's account. That's the accountant. They love them. They love numbers. But he was also very funny and very silly. Didn't mind being the, you know, the brunt of a joke. His high school friends all, you know, stayed friends through college. And just like he had this quiet, loving soul, where, you know, a simple glance would bring you peace, you know, or I don't know. He would hug you in a way where you felt the warmth, like just radiating from his body.

31:50Yeah. And I think that I think all of that plays a role. He was a very sensitive soul, very sensitive. And he always tried to please those around him. And, you know, they say that when you hit 25, I think is the statistic, particularly in males, that the brain goes from the low finally gets developed between like 25 to 20 seven or something like that. And then there could be a chemical imbalance of some sort. Right. And so I think at the end of the day, when I stopped researching, that that's probably what happened. There was a moment of, you know, there was a chemical imbalance and a switch had been flipped. And he worried about everything to the point where it just really, you know, got the best of him. And it makes me sad because he could have been, he would have

32:52been an outstanding, outstanding human being, you know, how do you remember him to like this day? This is going to sound crazy. No, nothing's crazy. It's just silly and goofy. You know, we went to public school. There was a moment. And whenever I think of Michael, well, there's two things. I think of Michael in the school cafeteria. You know, it was public, public school. And we had, you know, public lunch, you know, lunch was offered from the school hot launches. They were called for it. I don't know what kids do today. And he would always, we would always have lunch at the same time. And he would always get a tray and give it to me and make, let me go first before he would get his tray. I mean, it's a, it's a small little gesture, right? But like it says so much about him.

33:54And then the other thing that I, and it's hard because I love these songs from the 80s and stuff. But every time this song comes on, and I could be anywhere, you know, in a store or in a car or whatever. You know, that song, the theme song from the Buzzen buddies. It was Tom Hanks and someone else. There was a song. I don't even know who sings it. But it was, I don't care what you say anymore. This is my life. Go ahead with your own life. Leave me alone. Yeah, yeah, I go with sing that song and act it out. It would be, but not on my time. So every time I hear that, I think of Michael singing that and it, it makes me laugh. You know, you're gonna hear that today. You're gonna end up hearing that today because Michael's probably like, that's right, sis. It's everyone listening to this podcast next time they hear that song. They're gonna be like, oh my god. Oh my god. Oh, well, so that was in,

34:59that was May 1999. Yes. And then, and then I will let me tell you so, I stopped teaching. Right? Right. I stopped teaching to take a break and figure out what I was gonna do because I was mourning and grieving and all this. And I had a friend who, I was also extremely involved in the Greek community. You know, I had a lot of extracurricular activities that revolved around the Greek community. You know, it was president of this and secretary of that and involved in all the nonprofits and in in the story and the societies where my parents, you know, villages were from and these kind of things, right? Greek folk dance, everything Greek. And I met a young Italian man who would go to all these Greek functions and he would be governor Pataki's representative. So I don't know if you go to these events where politicians are invited. And they can't attend everything they're invited to, right? So they send a representative. Yeah, I see that a lot in news.

36:01Like, yeah, they're having like, oh, so it can be, you know, and they present a proclamation to the society or whatnot. So a friend of mine, this little, this young Italian man would come to all these Greek events representing the governor of the state of New York. Now, I had no idea. What it meant to be a Republican or a Democrat or politics growing up that wasn't an issue for us, right? And so all I knew was that this guy got to go to these events for free. I had to pay or volunteer, you know, and he was representing the governor and everyone thought he was like the cats me out. Yeah. And so we became friends. And because I was out of work, he would ask me for help because he represented the governor in Greek in the Greek community and several other communities. And he would help, you know, he would need help writing these proclamations and the history of certain events and of the Greeks and stuff. And so I started helping him. And then he got promoted. And then he said, you know, you'd be really good at this job. Like, would you consider applying?

37:02He's fallen into things like, I just, right. It was the weirdest thing. Well, coincidentally, everyone else who was up for this job had a political goal, whether they wanted to run for office, or so of course they wanted to work in the governor's office because they was an end game. I had no end game. I didn't want to be a politician. I wasn't a lawyer. Like, I didn't care. I just really loved the community that I was part of, you know. And so I auditioned. Oh, this is pretty much. Isn't it? It is an audition, right? The whole world's an audition. The whole world's a stage. I interviewed with a lovely man and, you know, he said to me, now you know, and Thula, if you get this job every time you leave your house, you represent the governor of the state of New York. That's a heavy burden. Can you carry that? You know, and I said, with all due respect, sir, every time I leave my house, I represent my father. That's a heavier burden. I kid you not. That's good. I got the job because of that. You know, it was great. It was great.

38:06So I ended up representing the governor of New York and also being the bug in his ear, you know, when he would walk into a room and I'd say, oh, you remember, you know, you remember her? She has a podcast. Yeah. And he's like, man, I never got that close to see what those interactions were like, but you're big. You're piping like, blah, blah, blah. This is what's going on. You have to know everybody because they don't. They can't possibly know everybody they meet, right? So you have to do the research, you know, yeah. Okay. I would speak on his behalf and, you know, I would write his speeches and this kind of thing. So I was working for the governor on that day. Now, do you want to introduce this or should I say this? Well, then September 11th, 2001 arrives. I was at Temple University. I always say, go owls. That day I woke up. I was in my junior year and I put on the TV. I was always watching Good Morning America. And I remember seeing that there was a potential possible. They didn't know a plane hit the World Trade Center.

39:08Nobody knew if it was a terrorist attack or not. That was the label of terrorist attack was being thrown out. I called my friend Brooke, who was at Fordham University. And I woke her up. It was cell phones. There was no like texting. And I said, and she wakes up and she was like, yeah, and I was on my way to go to my journalism class. Ironically enough. And I called her and she picked up and I said, hey, are you watching the news? And she's like, well, no, I'm just waking up. I was like, I think New York's under attack or something. And she goes, what? And she turned on the TV. And she was like, I gotta go. So I walked across. I will never forget this. These tears coming from. I walked across the campus. The temple. And I remember everything was silent. And I thought, oh, this isn't good. And there would be guys with their speakers out and their doors open. A lot of the New Yorkers would do that. No offense. New Yorkers. But they had to, they're always matching, matching. They had their like, you know, they'd be blasting like hip hop and R&B. I'm

40:09like, yeah, that's right. So that was not happening. It was K.Y.W. News Radio blasting. I get to my journalism class, my professor Karen Turner. Amazing. So this is down. She says, she brings in the TV. She puts it on and she says, all of you're going to sit here and watch this. You're all going to be journalists. You got to watch this. And if you can't handle it, you can excuse yourself and leave. But we're watching history right now. Oh my God. Oh wow. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, you have a much different situation that happened to you. I wasn't here. And I didn't God bless. Like I didn't lose a family member. That morning, I had worked the night before and we were allowed to be late to work the next day. And I actually got a call from a cousin in Greece because obviously the time changed their head. So they were awake. And she said, where are you? Where are you? Where are you? Are you watching TV? Are you with the office? Where are you? And I, like,

41:11like your friend, I was just waking up and I turned on the TV and I didn't really understand what was happening. And I called the office. And my boss at the time said, and the list day home, we've got this covered. If we need you, we'll give you a call. We're just telling everybody, stay home. The cover nurse, you know, can I go to the site? It was very confusing, but I, I was not upset until my brother George called and my brother George called. Now my brother, John, worked on Wall Street, quote unquote, right? That's the general term for brokers and people who are in finance, right? They work on Wall Street. So George called and said, John, I just found one of John's business cards and he works at one World Trade Center. Exactly. Took the breath out

42:14of me. I said, I don't, I don't understand. I thought he worked on Wall Street. You know, it's such a stupid thing. But like, I, we did not know. It's not like I was his wife and I would meet him for happy hour drinks, right? You know, do me that is office or something. Yeah. John would go to work and you'd come home and be hanging out on the weekends. We'd hang out at night, but we never went to each other's place of business, you know? And so I remember very calmly getting dressed and walking to my mom's house. And you know what? I'll never forget the unbelievable beautiful day. It was a beautiful blue sky. No, no cloud in the sky. I was like, that's not all for you to. It was gorgeous day. Gorgeous. Gorgeous day. And I remember feeling comfortable and content as I walked to my mom's house that is such a beautiful day that nothing could go wrong today. It was one of those like perfect days. And I get to my mom's just as the second plane is hitting the other tower. And that's when the news reporters started talking about

43:25how this has to be a concerted attack on the World Trade Center that it's no longer just an accident, right? Now we had cell phones at the time, but we weren't attached to them, right? So my brother John actually had a cell phone, but it was in his room because he had left at home, because we didn't take our cell phones with us everywhere we went. And actually he had taken the day off on Monday because he was at a wedding the weekend before in Chicago and took a Monday off. So he had to go to work on Tuesday. And folks, obviously, I think I've given it away. My brother John worked in tower one, the North Tower. On the 104th floor, he was a bonds broker at Cantor Fitzgerald. Now Cantor Fitzgerald is the company that lost its entire room. All the employees, unless they took their kids to school or relay because they went to vote.

44:33I think he was something upwards of 800. Oh my god, I can't believe I don't remember the number now. 800 or so people that died just from that company alone because they were above the impact. So what's startling is that I remember watching the TV and I remember when the first tower fell. And I almost like crumbled like the tower and I fell to my knees and my heart. My heart was at a million pieces for those people, for those poor people, not John. But those people who might be trapped who didn't escape. I was sad for my city. I was praying that what I was watching was a dream that it wasn't real. And then the second tower came tumbling

45:35down and at that point, I realized that we were under attack and that my city, my beautiful city had gone through something so devastating and so tragic. But never once Reagan that I think that my brother was not coming home. In my heart, my brother was like Magyver, okay? John would find a way he was. He was Magyver. He was a scrappy, really smart. You're like, yeah, no, he's fine. John's going to be fine. John's going to be fine. And my dad was in Greece, unfortunately. And oh my god, all the planes were grounded and trying to get him in on the first plane out. You know, I used my political contacts to get him on plane and get him home. But talking to him on the phone and reassuring him that everything was going to be okay,

46:39that John was going to be okay. To this day, it means the hardest thing because my dad's voice on the other side of the phone was just so helpless. He sounded like a child, like really worried about his son and what he could do. Meanwhile, my mom, you know, having just lost a son, was devastated at the prospect of her son, her second son, not coming home. And so we tried to reassure her. And then my brother and I decided that we should probably create these missing posters because people were creating these missing posters looking for their loved ones. I don't remember how many days had passed. When we decided to mobilize and our friends and our family and everyone, like we took shifts going into the city and we lived in Astoria and we could see the smoke bellowing from Manhattan. We could smell the smoke in Astoria. It was

47:41inconceivable to us what was happening. Okay. We had people in and out of our home. It was a non-stop parade of people bringing us food and support and blankets and teddy bear. I mean, I'm not just friends and family. I'm talking complete strangers would stop because they'd see the fury, the flurry of people and they'd say, oh my god, do you need help? Did you lose someone? It was an unbelievable experience. And when I tell you that September 11th showed us the worst of humanity and September 12th showed us the best of humanity. I mean, people came together like I've never witnessed to this day in my life. The love and the support and the unity was unreal. I can't even tell you I wish our country could go back to that. You know, that moment

48:44in time where it seems like everything stood still and everyone cared about one another. Yeah. It was such a heartfelt kind of emotional time. Like, you know, here I am like doing interviews about my brother, John, you know, looking for him and searching for him and hoping hoping that he had some kind of amnesia walking the streets in New York and didn't know who he was or that he was in a triage or in a hospital, which by the way, all those triage centers that they set up were empty. I remember hearing that. No one ever made it to it. Triage. If you got out, you got out. Otherwise, you were buried. And I think they found a couple of wonderful firefighters in the rubble. I don't know how many people survived after the towers collapsed. They were a few on the

49:44top part of the rubble. Anyway, um, yeah. So John was only 31. We held out hope for I'd say about, oh, God, I would say probably well into November. We waited. I don't know why we did that, especially since our family priest, you know, needed to do. He wanted in the Greek culture, right? You read the funeral rights. You have to do that within 40 days of a person dying. And so he said, you know, just to be on the safe side, let's just, let's just have a funeral. Now, what are we buried? We didn't have anything to, we were at, John was one of 40% of nearly 3000 victims, right? 40% were never discovered, never identified. So 40% of people, family members, don't have closure. Like I didn't bury anything. I have a tombstone at St. Michael Cemetery in

50:48Astoria for my brother Michael. And we put John's name on there, but there's nothing. We didn't, we didn't bury anything. There was nothing to bury. And the remains, lots of remains still exist. Um, the medical examiner's office is constantly doing tests, you know, as, uh, as technology improves, but, um, I don't think we'll ever receive anything. You know, I mean, that's the truth, right? And at this point, I don't know if I'd want to receive anything because what would it be? You know, they do DNA tests. Yeah, yeah. You know, I, um, so we had a, we had a, we read the burial rights. And I think in that moment, my mother just shut down entirely. I mean, you know, my father, I mean, it was, we got a call actually. I answered the phone and it was a doctor. And he said, is this,

51:52is this, you know, are, is this John Kessmentitas' family? You know, and I said, yes, is this his sister? And he said, I'm doctor. So, and so I've been treating John in for like a split second. My hope's got up. And I said, oh my god, you're treating John. Where is he? Can we come see him? Where is he? He said, oh my god, I'm so sorry. That's not what I meant. He said, I was treating John for his cancer. What exactly? Is it doctor? I don't know what you're talking about. You must have why the wrong person. My brother, John didn't have cancer. And he says, no, sweetheart, he did. Whoa, I never knew this part. No, people don't know this part. John ended up going in to relieve a deviated septum because he would snore. And when he was there, they found a tumor and they actively treated it with chemotherapy. And John didn't tell his

52:56family because he didn't want us to worry because we had just lost Michael. Yeah. That's the kind of person John was. So he would come home and just hide in his room. He had become really skinny. We had no idea why he had a rash on his face from the radiation. And he would tell my mom it was from a razor that was rusted or so. He would come up with excuses. I think two of his friends knew and they would take him to his chemotherapy treatments. Oh my god. How, I mean, what staged what I was an early stage. I think they beat it. Which is why he ended up going to Greece the weekend before September 11th. He wanted to go to the monastery on our island and give thanks. Yeah. Oh Jesus. And then he left from Greece when straight to Chicago for his best friends wedding. He was the best man. And then he went to work on Tuesday.

54:01Well, if you're still with us. Sorry guys. This isn't about this podcast isn't about the tragedies, right? It's about how you're kidding through it. Right. And you're sitting here and I'm looking at the time and I have to know I know this week you keep going. I know we keep going. It's about getting through the turbulence of your life. You have been there not only for your family, but also for other families as you said on the board. Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to be 25 years. It's going to be 20. This is airing September 9th. So in two days, 25 years. I'll tell you this real quick. 25 years for a family member. For most family members feels like yesterday because what we lived was so viscerally horrific that I feel it every day with every ounce of my being, the loss of my brother, the events of that day. Okay. It was a very long time ago, right? 25

55:04years is a very long time. Life changes, but it was also so horrific that you cannot stop thinking about it. But at the same time, because I know that my brother, John, wanted me to quote live my life in color. I live that way because I was fortunate enough for him to tell me that because of Michael's death, right? And so I have taken that to a whole new level. And I don't just physically, like literally dress in color, but I try every single day to live my life as large and as colorful and as bright as I possibly can. And that means with every interaction, whether it's with a friend or the guy at the gas station or a supermarket cashier, like I, I can attest to that. Yes. Yes. Yes. I just believe that it is, I, you know, I don't know when my last moment on this

56:04earth will be. So why not live your current moment to the fullest? And I firmly believe that. And I live like that every single day. And I'm just going to say one more thing. At 49 years old, I thought it was over for me. And that I would never get married because after dealing with these two tragic deaths and then my father died tragically thereafter, which would anticipate a father dying, right? I never thought in a million years, I'd ever be happy. I never thought in a million years, I've ever get, I'd ever get married. I never thought in a million years that I would have the life that I have today. And at 49 years old, on my brother, John's birthday, which was September 5th, three years ago, I met Michael Papa John, Michael Papa John. And I firmly believe that my brothers and my dad sent this man to me. Oh my God, stop an anthula. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah. And Michael Papa John is my husband and my best friend. And I love you too. So happy. I love you,

57:10Michael. I love you. Jesus, peesies. We have like 30 seconds. We have the word out. But I want you to tell the quick story about Queen Camilla because somebody very quickly, very quickly, very quickly, then we have to unfortunately, the Camilla and the king came to the 9-11 Memorial to pay their visits, to pay their respects in memory for the 25th anniversary. And we were told very specifically, the few people that were lined up to meet them, that we were not to talk to them unless spoken to, we were not to touch them unless touched or whatever. And I said, okay, when I thought I would abide by those rules, I really did. There was no reason. But I got into this wonderful conversation with the queen. And I told her all about John. And she was in awe. And she was just like, oh, he sound lovely. I'm sorry for the bad accent. And you're a doll or whatever she called me a deer. I don't know what she called me. But and then we talked about the memorial and how beautiful the memorial is.

58:10And then folks, if you have not visited the memorial in the museum, please, please go see the museum. You have to go. It is a wonderful, sad, but also an uplifting experience. And if you weren't born on September 11th, that's another reason for you to go and get the facts of what happened that day. So we're talking about the museum and the memorial. And we just had this wonderful, very extensive conversation, believe it or not. And I leaned in because that's what a Greek American girl would do. And I said, your majesty, can I can I give you a hug? And she said, of course, darling. And then she reached out and hugged me. Oh, come here. You know, and she gave me a hug. And you know what? She showed her humanity in that moment that they are just regular people with big hearts. And I will never forget that moment so much as as long as I live. Apparently, the only other woman to Haga Queen was Michelle Obama. Tristory, Google that. I'm just saying.

59:15That's what I read. Well, excuse me. All right. Well, we have to unfortunately wrap this up. This was like, I could keep talking to you. And if you like it, let us know. We'll come back. Yeah, let us know. And you know, I would also love people to have a conversation with this podcast and tell me, you know, like where they were on September 11th. It's a good idea. I think everybody remembers everybody remembers where they were. Yeah, you just know where you were. Let's you were in the womb or you were twinkle on somebody's eye. And you were not anywhere. Winkle on somebody's eye. All right. All right. Oh my gosh. All right. Well, let's wave to the camera. And we'll say our goodbyes. Bye, friends. Live life in color, people.