Shoot, Pass, Dribble

0:00Basketball a game of Giants and bears number 99 George Mican one of the greatest perhaps the most complete player the game is ever seen The Lakers captured Elgin base For Sky Breakers will magic on the middle just what I thought a hook shot at 12. Go The What's up, Laker fans? You're listening to the Laker Film Room podcast on Pete joined by Darius and the Week or two ago we had is talk on to talk about how the Lakers have joined the motor league and how the league is trended towards more ball pressure Higher pickup points corner crashing picking up the pace and transition all of the things that are

1:00Associated with the motor aspects of the game and I think the concept of this Laker's team is a synthesis between that idea and The shoot pass dribble idea that J.J. Retic is brought up and so wanted to have a conversation with you today about the Shoot pass dribble abilities of this team especially compared to last year Lakers pick up Kessler, Mamu, Sexton and Grimes. What are your thoughts on that shoot pass dribble model and how do you just view that whole thing? The way I think about this at first Pete is even before I think about the players is Why is this idea there in the first place and it's because J.J. Retic has talked about it like extensively One of the things we haven't talked about a ton this offseason, but I think is an interesting Starting point for this discussion for dribble pass shoot is that we are entering year three of J.J. Retic as the Lakers head coach, but I would argue this is year one for J.J. Retic as the head coach where the team is more built under the idea of what he wants it to be there were other players like

2:07Jackson Hayes for example the Lakers could have paid him exactly that to play in the same exact role that he's gonna play for Utah That he would play for the Lakers This isn't like bringing back Marcus smart for example or even Rui where I know that we talked a fair amount about Marcus For example and being like oh what would it be like to bring back Marcus instead of Sexton? But Marcus was a starter and that might have not been something they wanted to do with also targeting Grimes and Everything else my point about Jackson is that the Laker said no We're not gonna bring him back and we're gonna build an entire new team and One of the reasons why I think they did that is to truly turn the page on the previous era and Give J.J. Retic a team almost from scratch and one of the main things that J.J. said at the end of last season is that he wanted Younger players he wanted better athletes, but he wanted more players who could dribble past shoot and so

3:11That's the foundation of this entire idea It's that the head coach wants these dudes and he wants them because he wants to play a certain style of basketball And I think that there is this idea of being more free-flowing playing more five out Playing more spacing oriented shooting based Advantage creation advantage extension and then finishing through either paint touches or through Three point shooting that J.J. wants to see and he wants every player on the court to be able to contribute to that in some way Shape or form it's one of the reasons why even though Walker Kessler or Kevin looney aren't like shooters or ballhammers The fact that the Lakers might play more D.H.O. Basketball puts them in ball handling and passing situations because they're they're gonna have the ball in their hands when People are worrying around them right and that to me contributes to this idea of

4:12Dribble past shoot where they may not be dribbling and they may not be passing in the classic sense even though I think looney and Kessler can both pass them which is important But the ball handling aspect of them having the ball at the top of the key or or in horn situations while guys come off of D.H.O.s for them I think that's a part of this entire equation too And so I'm thinking about this from the context of what does the head coach want and then how are these players going to be able to provide it? And so I'm starting even before the hey what is Colin sexting going to bring to this I'm start It's more like what is the alignment of the offense going to look like and why does JJ want this in the first place and to that point I'm a big believer that to win a championship you have to be the best in the league at what you do if you're starting with Lukadonchich in Austin Reeves You've already checked that shoot pass dribble filled those buckets quite a bit and you can go one of two ways from there

5:16For example when we had AD one of the Follies I think of the transition of him to the five spot was this idea of oh he's got that the rebounding and interior defense covered So let's emphasize more spacing and guys you can shoot on the perimeter But maybe less physical but we want a championship by stacking AD on top of Dwight Howard and Danny Green and KCP and Avery Bradley on the perimeter LeBron was great on the defensive and that your Alex Kuru so off of the bench where yeah, Javail McGee Kyle Kuzma even Marky Morris There were just a bunch of ranger guys who had to fit in and do their defensive job But all of them had a certain floor defensively. Yeah, it's like no man. We're gonna be great Yeah, it added up to the best defensive team in the league and that's how the Lakers really won the title I think if you're starting with Austin and Luca Yes, there's that instinct to oh we've got a cover for them on the defensive end and add the best defenders possible Yes, and it's part of the reason why I thought Walker Kessler was so essential in that I think that if you've got a great defensive

6:17Big man you can lean more heavily into those other aspects while still being very good on the defensive end And so if you've got Luca and Austin but you're surrounding them with more flawed offensive players that are there for the purpose of playing perimeter defense for example, Lakers do have a few of those It gives teams places to hide in ways that if you can play good enough defense on that end But you don't give the defense anywhere to hide it opens up opportunities for Luca Austin everybody else to really exploit a defense. It's sort of reaches a breaking point It's not only that you potentially give the other team places to hide right what also happens though Pete is that You can not only hide players on those weaker offensive talents But you can cheat off of them in ways where you're throwing so many extra bodies and resources at the other teams best players And so you're making Luca's job harder

7:18Not just because there's a lesser offence of player on the court And if you pass the ball to Jared Vanderbilt He might not be able to finish in the same way that Ruiha Jumura might be able to finish But that the defenders on those players are able to cheat and show more paint help and you can shift your defense in ways And that's where the sort of wear and tear and cumulative like even mental energy that it takes for a Luca or an Austin or in previous seasons LeBron to be like no now I've got to dissect this whole extra layer of defense Before I can even get to something that's going to give us advantage over the course of a playoff series Especially that's gonna be damning to you overall So let's go to break here Pete and when we come back I want to talk about the dribble past shoot idea with the new players and be like no this is what the lake is going after With grimes and sexton and mamu especially Pete I see this as being

8:18We targeted these skill sets and these three specific players especially I'm putting Kefsler to the side a little bit here I think it was very critical that the Lakers look at their backup point guard as someone who had a well-rounded offensive skill set And you couldn't just be like we can stick any sort of defender on this guy because if you do He's going to be able to beat you. I think the same about a player like Quentin Grimes It's just like the offensive floor of a player like Grimes versus a gay Vincent or a Marcus Smart Grimes is Flores so much higher. I even think of a player like mamu who Rui might be right there with mamu in terms of pure finishing right or even above him But mamu's ability to rack a closeout or make the extra pass or Grab and go and play in the middle of the core be a decision maker within the context of the middle of the play Mamu

9:18Laps Rui multiple times within the context of that part of his offensive skill set And so Pete I would argue in those three players specifically the Lakers are saying we're no longer going to have Limited offensive players or guys who can't be in the blender at those specific spots Because we feel like that cramps our offensive utility and lowers our overall offensive ceiling that ceiling idea You were talking about how certain players have a higher floor than the counterparts that they're replacing in certain aspects I think what's just important is their higher ceiling. That's one thing. I'm really excited about between grimes Mamu and sexton is all of them are capable of having really big games like Mamu is the NBA record holder for points in a game while playing under 20 minutes He can get just unbelievably hot sent things true with grimes He's a guy who can and has had 40 point games in the NBA and sexton as well Sextons never even averaged under 14 points per game I think if you're starting with luke and Austin and then you've got this group of at least three other players that can legitimately score 30 points in a game

10:26And that's not just absolutely crazy that they did that that's super important And that's one thing that I know with conard and rui for example That was one of the complaints despite being super efficient scores It's just there's a level of volume that they couldn't get up Rui is a better shooter in my opinion than mamu although I think mamu's more versatile one I think he can hit a wider variety of shots But rui you can bank on him if he gets his feet set and he's gonna knock that down But mamu's ability to create off of the dribble and that not only keeps the blender going it just There are more shots within the overall shot diet that I think he can hit I think that's true of grimes as well that what happens especially in playoff series is Defenses will organize themselves in ways where it's like hey We know this player doesn't like taking this shot or isn't good at this particular shot That I think having that broader variety especially in your role players Long side of luke and Austin it just gives them fewer chances to be able to do that

11:26It's interesting because I think that The evolution of what happened to conard during the postseason It's sort of what you're talking about in that I thought he's didn't got caught off guard by what the lakers were doing to try to utilize Conard as an offensive engine in a lot of ways that Essentially was not part of the scouting report for how luke canard plays We stole a couple of games exactly because of that remember as that series went on it got a little more difficult Not as for him, but for the lakers in general very important that they jumped out and kind of surprised them at the front end The same was true of Marcus mart when both of them got ample opportunity to try to like color outside of the lines and They ended up being master artists at that very early in that series, but As hewston started to adjust and then often came back a little bit later It was just like no we're going to make these guys do certain things and play them a certain way to sort of corral them

12:28Where you no longer have the element of surprise now? What are you going to do and both of those players and started to resemble much closer like their career norms And the style of play that they've exhibited for most of their careers and to your point the Dynamism that exists with sexton and grime tin mamu as natural elements of their games I think lends itself to that higher ceiling that you're talking about and it's more difficult to box a guy in If he's got more tools in his kit the other thing that I would add to is that Mamu and grimes and sexton none of them are Trigger shy also right and so the volume element that you were discussing is a critical part of this discussion too Very much so and let's go to an early second break here. That leads me right into a question. I want to ask you

13:29One of the things you told me offline recently was you were wondering if this team is going to be able to pass well enough to Really maximize what they can be on the off-offensive and tell me where your heads at in that respect because that can be a downside of Guys that are not trigger shy or guys who can get white hot is there are like five dudes on this team that can be like I'm gonna cook right now and I think you're really over the target here of like a key to the season offensively One of the things that we were talking about when I brought that up is like They lost one of the best and most creative passers and playmakers in the history of the league in Lebron and I thought as long as you had Lebron and Luca You were going to be in above average passing team in the aggregate just because they were both so good and Lebron also Was such a good connective passer. I was watching highlights the other day from the Houston series and the number of times Lebron Was the guy who started a play to create advantage and then the play sort of swung back his way

14:36And then he made another connecting pass to another player and just a quick decision and Lebron's ability to make that pass while also being the guy who could absorb a double team and then pick out some crazy skit pass That's very rare that you do both of those things as well as Lebron did and you lose a player like that And I'm just like how are they going to make that up? And I was saying that mom who to me is like a really good passer I think he's got really good feel and then Lucas Luca And I think Austin is a very good can be a very good passer He could also be a creative and a flashy passer which I love I love that stuff But there are also times to where he can be accused of over dribbling and not making the pass And there's sometimes where I feel like he misses passing reads that a more natural passer would actually make And that's sort of how I feel about sexting too and I think grimes is below that level And so when I was thinking about okay, does this team have enough passing?

15:39I'm just like they lost one of the best passers ever in the history of the game They got mom and who I really like But after that it's like grimes and sexting and I'm just like I don't know if they made it up in terms of Lucy Lebron They've got good passing But do they have the passing feel and the guys who were instantaneously going to be like no the right read here is to just move the ball quickly Which is something I thought Marcus actually did very well last year as well where he was just like no I'm just gonna move the ball I've got point guard feel at times and I wonder about that with the new guys and I love con artist passer too I thought he was fantastic as a guy who could rack a close out and then just kind of keep the wheel moving So this is a place where my mind goes toward JJ Reddick and this is I think one of his bigger challenges, but is an achievable challenge and this is part of my Rationale for why I think the Lakers will go more five out this season even though it'll be a bit of both By and large five out offense is more conducive to screening and player movement

16:42Whereas four out offense is more conducive to dribble penetration and I think that they should be geared more toward a five out Player motion type of set precisely because a lot of the guys do have that instinct to score And I think that if you get them on the move for one If you can get the advantage before you get the ball in your hands like on a handoff If you get a half step on a defender a guy that call in sections gonna eat that up But it also leads to easier like more dump off type of passes that I think just leads into more of a natural shot Whereas in four out you can be a little more stagnant and though it can be as guilty of this as anyone for his phenomenal As he is a score Luke it can have that I'm just gonna go cook right now and sometimes that's a great idea right but I think it on this team It will devalue sort of the players around him if you're stuck in that everybody's holding their spots and stations and watching one guy Go and so I don't think this is a let's take turns type of team even though I think they could do that well I don't think they could hit their ceiling without really everybody incorporating into a broader movement and screening based type of system

17:48But then you lose some of the driving gaps that you have when you go five out or if you don't do it right But you know there's ways to get dribble penetration lanes within that style of offense D But that's really where my head goes is let's get these guys on the move Let's get the ball going from person to person and the opportunities will be obvious I think within that whereas I think if they go let's take turns on this they won't be able to reach their ceiling Do you think that's a natural way for Luke to play though Not necessarily although I thought he was amazing What do we were setting screens for him to start out a play and again I think this team will be very good once they're in the blender and really the foundation of being in a blender is Somebody somewhere got an advantage and now the defense is scrambling to make up that advantage that I think if you could start a play like that with just getting Luke of the ball on a handoff And he's gonna have plenty of plays where we get the rebound and we come up and we just set a drag screen for him And let's go where he doesn't even use a screen So it's not a one or the other type of thing

18:49I just think that they need to push more toward that let's get everybody on the move type of style Rather than just standing and watching Luca Yeah, I'm very interested in this idea and where the threshold is for Luca to play any particular style of way and how he feels most comfortable I've typically viewed Luca as way more of a four out player than a five out player of him calling guys up to set ball screens And then essentially depending on who the screener is that blending into a certain type of pick and roll or pick and pop with pick and pop stuff blending itself more to five out of line because you pick and pop if that's like old school Mav stuff maxi cleva then clebos popping above the break if they are trying to cheat and take that away Then he moves the ball on station to station defense gets in rotation And then someone has maybe a driving kick opportunity and might even work its way back to Luca Then he gets an open shot and the Lakers did plenty of that last season playing for out basketball

19:50And so the sort of advantage creation advantage extension And then the ball even getting back to the guy who started it all as as your finisher I think we're gonna see plenty of that stuff as well too The addition of sexton with Austin I think does allow for opportunities to Luca start off of the ball and then what that potentially looks like when It's not the guard that's handling but playing through the big at the top of the key That's where you start to get more five out stuff that that I am intrigued by I have a question for you on the Luca front because that was a great question about is this conducive to Luca's natural style Lucas used to date last year was 38% I think during the regular season Do you think we could win a championship with that level of ball dominance? I think that's too high honestly when you talked about a challenge for jj within the context of Maybe finding ways to play basketball as a five man group moving the ball passing creating elements of that I actually think a challenge for

20:52Jj is Luca still feeling super involved offensively and being able to score to the degree that he's been scoring because I think that's still a vital component of how the lakers are gonna be successful is Luca Essentially being close to or at the league leaders and scoring is how to do that while also Lucas usage being closer to in between 32 34 range rather than the 35 to 38 range You know what this reminds me of D is remember the sort of tension between Kobe and Phil Jackson and the triangle Especially the younger version of Kobe where he was like I can Absolutely score on my man every single time that I want to and younger Kobe especially had more of a resistance to the triangle as a result of that But players determine the offense that you run way more than people realize It's not like the coaches calling every single play and every single time up court Luca is always going to be able to do that no matter what style of offense that we're running

21:54I do think having some Structured a fall back on and sort of when he's not doing that we can still be a really effective five-man unit is super important And so this reminds me a little bit of that not that Luca has any resistance to this He's just he's so good that I totally get why he gets into that brain of I'm just gonna score every time This isn't exactly the point that you were making it but it was more like personality stuff and his sort of like loan or tendencies at times With the context of like group play the younger version of Kobe that it is But Phil Jackson also used to talk about the idea of the lone wolf versus the pack and he would often say That he had to give Kobe room to be the lone wolf while also Understanding that eventually he would come back to the pack But he had to also create an environment where Kobe felt comfortable coming back to the pack And I felt like feel like we talk about this through sort of the lens of Kobe growth and realizing oh no the triangle Actually, I can use that to my advantage

22:55I thought Phil really showed some adaptability in that he was way more stubborn about that early on Then he learned who Kobe was and I thought that was one of his great realizations was like no I gotta give this dude space to be able to do that Phil got the in many ways like the Ready to go win version of Michael Jordan He didn't get the version that Doug Collins got right like the sort of just stallion that was just running around and Lapping every one at the rodeo right like that's what Michael Jordan did It's one of the reasons why his sort of status is held in such a steam as like the goat It's because that younger period of him there were no shackles on him at all and I think the league was better off seeing his brilliance Just out there where his athletic gifts with his creativity could be on display night after night to your point About building your offense around what your best players do

23:55This is where I thought Pat Riley was great with the dichotomy of dealing with like a fast breaking team That could him was excellent in transition with magic jontan even the younger version of him with a very half-court centric team built around Karim and later on James worthy When I think about jj and luca and this version of the roster is I think he does need to find the through line of What is the offensive structure that's going to give the entire team and the entire group balance and a sense of involvement While also giving luca the freedom to be able to say I'm luca dongech I'm maybe the best offent to play him the world when you talk about his utility as a scorer and give him the freedom to break out While also providing the structure that has enough elasticity to allow him to expand and play with freedom And then retract at times to bring him back into the fold with structure so that the rest of the team isn't out there on an island

24:58Like when I asked you the question that I did about do you think this is the most natural way for luca to play? I don't think it's the most natural way for luca to play I think he wants to ball at the top of the floor and he wants to be able to see all five defenders in front of him And I think he wants to be able to say no let me pick out someone to come in screen for me most notably the big man So that I can then get the best screen possible Get down hill and then decide am I gonna shuffle step backwards to shoot the step back three Or am I gonna continue to try to work my way to the basket to score at the rim or in the paint or Throw a crazy behind my head past to a guy who's standing exactly where I expect him to be standing Because the format and the structure of the offense is rigid for my teammates But elastic for me that sort of the environment that I see him thriving in and what's led him to be in all NBA player So many times this early in his career But to your point to win a championship I do think there needs to be more of that idea of

26:02How is everyone going to get more touches be more involved over the course of the entire game And that's why I think dribble pass shoot is important to JJ as well. He was a shooter He he was an off ball player But if you asked JJ Did you enjoy just standing in the corner? He would tell you no he loved to come up and set ball screens for Ben Simmons and to like work D.H.O.s with Joel and B or to play two-man game with Blake Griffin and George Jordan Bro him and Deandre Jordan had amazing chemistry and it created great books for Deandre Jordan as well Right like what reddit could do and his gravity and all of that and so I think that the whole idea of like this not being Lucas natural play style that totally agree with this I would just say that his natural play style will always be there And when he wants to call that number he will have the flexibility and bandwidth to be able to do that But it can't be the only thing that the Lakers do and there has to be broader overall structure that benefits

27:02The whole idea that the Lakers do have a lot of this date and so if it's only just relying on his We might as well just go gone out and gotten all athletes that can defend and all that if it's just gonna be Luke a cook in but I think that to really take advantage of the personnel that the Lakers have here They've got to have something that's really cohesive and I would argue this is what their head coach wants I think so too. All right. This has been fun. The first of many I think shoot past dribble Conversations that we'll be having I think sometimes we'll zero in a lot more on one or the other But everybody have a great weekend for my patreon folks that Kisler video will be up tonight For everybody else that'll be up on Monday morning And so we will be back next week early next week with the pod but until then You've been this in the Laker Filmroom podcast We'll catch you guys next time I want the tourney double-team just pass out about broken up by worthy Just the magic worthy guys on his belly magic story You got it magic fires again. It will acres win the game the Lakers win the game You're about to run three seconds left that next one will win it

28:0648 points 17 revolts We're here John the Times and NBA Finals rocket a lot of Laker fans. What's there for this you see it's something that's very rare indeed A Laker to get MVP change in Boston of all places are you kidding me Toby Unreal are you kidding me Lakers looking to push Ryan spinning in the lane back for the sawing pretty pass and it's back to a three-point game Obi-B prede The round Voilà of a little arty injury co happy i mean I mean, you can defend that. Are you kidding me?

29:072.1 seconds remaining. Denver filed a give. Yokech, trying to disrupt Rondo. He puts it in. Here's Davis for three in the win. Oh, it's gone. Anthony Davis has won it for the Lakers. James again. Oh, he hits another one. LeBron James putting together a closing corner against the Nuggets. This historic 2020 NBA championship belongs to the Los Angeles Lakers. The Lakers conquer the bubble. And banner number 17 will soon hang in the rafters.