Should UPL be playing in Back to Back Games before the playoffs?

It's Mike's show and the Bulldog.

I don't think that's a very good attitude.

It's Mike's show.

You don't think?

You don't think?

I don't think you should be button-in when I'm talking to my team.

You're my assistant, okay?

You're supposed to back me up and go get me juice boxes when I tell you.

Now go get me a juice box.

You know who you're talking to.

It's the Bulldog.

I'm talking to the juice box guy.

You're crazy.

I'm not crazy.

I'm just thirsty.

What are you going to help?

No, you're going to help.

Why are you there?

Why are you grabbing a juice box?

I'm no juice box boy.

I'll tell you that.

Yes you are.

No, I'm not.

It's Mike's show.

And the Bulldog.

Not WGR.

Sports Radio 550.

Okay.

I'm not crazy.

I'm just thirsty.

I'm not crazy for still thinking Luke and I'll play tonight.

Do we actually know anything?

No, I don't think we do anything.

We know anecdotally.

We know he played last night.

We know Lyon left the morning skate with an apparent injury.

I'm assuming he's not playing tonight.

I'm assuming Lyon's not playing.

And I have been assuming Luke and I would not play.

But that is just that's an assumption based on history.

And I'm not really using guys back to back.

And even in consecutive games hardly at all this year.

So I've all along thought I'd be surprised if Luke and in played.

And you have sort of left the door open.

Which is right because you never know.

Well, I would say this.

If Lyon is healthy.

Okay.

Ellis though.

Doesn't that maybe change the equation?

I mean when was this last start February?

You're in first place with three games left.

And you're off until Tuesday.

I mean, I feel like I was early to don't play your starting goalie back to back.

Ever.

Yeah.

I would do it tonight.

If he's not really tired.

I mean, if he's not exhausted.

Yeah.

He played Monday too.

These are high pressure games.

Come back last night.

It's not a given to me that.

What was this set up is just killing me.

I don't know how he feels.

But I would make an exception tonight.

If he told me he was good.

I think.

Well, don't they almost always tell you they're good.

Well, okay.

Right.

That's where the risk about taking the guy's word for it.

And it's the old manager comes out to the mound.

Like, no, I'm good.

Like, just Pedro.

We're going to tell Grady little.

No, actually, I'm gassed.

I'm shot.

I know I'm the guy.

But get me out of here.

They never do that.

So would you never play Luke and then tonight?

You would never do it.

I don't I don't want to say I would never do it.

It would have a lot to do with how much.

How comfortable I am with Ellis.

How comfortable I am with Ellis.

And you know, there's the morning show is dubbed him Captain.

Captain.

Captain chaos or Colton chaos.

That's it.

Because his first name is Colton.

Not cap.

What does that mean?

It's just like sort of.

Oh, you know, he's he's he's going to be all over the place.

That is what chaos might.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's.

Yes.

Right.

So I mean, I don't know.

I don't know.

He's made me nervous every time he's played even when he's played great.

So I don't love the idea, but I just don't.

I would be surprised if they went back to Luke and then you're making a you make.

I mean, it's a different time of the year.

How do you not?

Okay.

If you want to get everybody in, this is really the only place you're going to get the other guy in.

Well, that is a good point.

That is a that that that comes down to how bad line is hurt.

How badly he's hurt.

All right.

Because the playoffs are a week and a half away.

Yeah.

So if he's got some sort of a grade two strain something or something like.

By the way, I'm I've got a thumb strain today and I'm going to need a grade on it.

Couldn't even get through the first segment without mentioning it.

Right.

Right.

So if anybody watching sees me cringe when I pick up something because that's been happening today.

Maybe they could just sort of throw out a number.

Great.

What does it go up to three?

Is there a grade four thumb strain?

I don't know.

I'm not I'm not aware of the level of strains.

If Lion is down, he's got something where it's like a month.

Mm hmm.

Two to three weeks even.

Then okay, then I'll listen to Ellis.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because I might think he's important.

You might need him.

Yeah.

Right.

It's important to anything.

Yeah.

But otherwise I don't.

I never have.

Right.

I don't know.

Yeah.

I like it.

I like it.

Come on.

It.

Come on, Luke.

And I mean, he's 20.

He just turned 27.

He's never gone deep.

Right.

He's never been which it could be an argument against it.

Mm hmm.

But he's rolling.

I'm doing it.

I don't even think it's close.

It's for me tonight.

Unless he's got a problem.

Everything is close.

I'm not starting Colton Ellis in game 80 with a two point division.

He just love it when someone does something completely unexpected, which is take a position

that's kind of contrary to where they stood most of the time.

This is great.

Well, I'm not being.

I'm not being cute.

I think it's awesome that you're there.

I just.

This is what.

Hang on.

Sorry.

This is what people always told me for years.

About fourth down.

But Mike.

There are exceptions.

And I have mostly, I have mostly capitulated on that.

You know, talking to Sean McDermott over the years.

And there was growth with McDermott when it came to fourth down.

Yeah.

And you know, he got to a point where he talked about having his team of people who would help him,

you know, decide what to do and all the research that went into it.

But he also said, look, we talked before every game.

I believed him.

We, why not?

We talked before every game about the opponents.

Maybe the weather.

Like what kinds of variables are there.

Mm hmm.

And so I as somebody that would say, nope, I don't care.

I've got thousands of NFL games in my pocket.

I know what it means to go from, to go on fourth and two from the plus 42.

I don't need to know, you know, how the Eagles are going to line up.

Yeah.

So, but mostly I have capitulated on that.

And kind of the safe space in this realm is that you need both.

You want to have the data.

This is where the data people, I think, have had to sort of let the other side have something.

Because data was just pounding them over the head every time with how teams were adding analytics people

and just sort of winning, you know, crushing the war on this.

Okay, well, you know, we're not going to say your experience is worth nothing.

Or these other factors are completely necessarily meaningless.

Anyway, yeah, I think the point is, I think there are times where there can be exceptions.

Nope.

That's all.

I wonder how I would bet they weigh every bit of data they can about this.

And I would think load management is central to it because I wonder how much risk there is.

There's a certain amount of fatigue that would come with playing two nights in a row.

There's maybe a certain amount of fatigue that would come with starting three games in a row or four out of five

when you haven't played but every other game for months on end.

Maybe on top of suddenly starting to play games in a row throwing a back-to-back on top of it

would be considered risky from a load management standpoint.

And I would buy that.

You know, maybe there's only so many splits or, you know, way side to sides you can do before something you'd end up like Anthony Stolar's last night.

I was just like, oh, I'm trying to go down.

See you later.

Look great.

I didn't get a grade.

But, like, nothing.

He didn't get hit.

Just, you know, went, tried to stretch out and just something popped.

So, I think they'd want to be really careful.

Luke and in is now the number one goalie, which of course is the reason why you're compelled to put them in

because every one of these games matter and there is time.

There's time after, but there is not, has not been much time before.

So he's one shot on goal in the third and a one-hour flight.

He's played a lot.

I know.

I just, I would want to be really careful with him.

Especially now that lion is dinged up.

Well, you know, interesting way to frame that.

Because careful.

Okay, well, you know, I like the idea of careful.

What, tell me then, what exactly is the risk?

Anthony Stolars is the risk?

Three and four is so egregious.

I don't know.

That he'll probably get hurt.

I mean, Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying he's probably going to get hurt, but I'm saying there's a reason why guys don't play back to back.

And it's all about load management.

Yes.

And you're staring right down the barrel of that with two games to go after time in the regular season.

I think you'd want to be careful.

I don't have my one B.

I like careful.

Like I said, I like careful.

But what's the opposite of careful in this particular instance?

Yeah, I'm not sure I can tell you how reckless it is.

Reckless.

Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying.

To do it.

I'm not saying he will get hurt, but how reckless is it?

I mean, it is a question for goalies because even though they used to play a bigger share of games forever,

or whole hockey lives until when the last decade, you know, like number one was Ryan Miller in a given season.

And he had good, he had, Barron was a great player.

I remember talking with Darcy about 70 games being a goal for them.

To get Miller, they wanted to get Miller to 70 games.

Yeah.

Now that's crazy.

Yeah, it is.

I mean, with the occasional exception for somebody who can just physically is proven to handle it.

Right.

And he's maybe the backup isn't any good.

I mean, Luke and his played 34 this year.

Fewer than Lyon, even.

That's not starts.

Although starts is also fewer, 33.

I don't know.

I guess how much before we get too carried away with ourselves arguing about it.

How much of this that matters is unknown.

A lot of it.

How he feels.

Right.

How Lyon feels is unknown to us.

All unknown to us.

Right.

It's like the guy yesterday calling up.

I would sit Thompson.

All right.

Tell me what you know about his injury.

Oh, I don't know anything.

I would sit Thompson though.

You got to know what you don't know.

Right.

There's a lot that we don't know.

But men.

I admit, I've said it consistent.

If this is, if this counts as being consistent, I have consistently said I am all over the road

on this division race.

I mean, not long ago, it was completely irrelevant to me.

72 hours ago, you wanted them to finish in the second wild cardable play Carolina.

That's right.

I'm pretty sure that happened.

So now I can taste it.

Today, you're Dan the torpedoes put the goalie back in.

Absolutely.

Right.

I mean, I guess some of that is on me.

But some of that is that information changes.

And how hot Montreal has been over the last few weeks.

And the idea of not having to play the, well, this is, you know, what's your latest on this?

Because you corrected me recently on like Montreal versus Boston as opponents.

How much better would it be to play Boston?

I think it's really worth it.

Okay.

So this is again, this is a pro for considering tonight's game.

Yes.

Yes, because that you, you win the division.

That's very much your most likely opponent versus playing Canadians or Tampa.

Right.

Which, you know, count me in.

Yep.

And there's still a chance at that other wild card too.

If you win the night.

That's right.

That's right.

Carolina at Chicago.

And that other wild card right now is Ottawa.

Well, I don't really want that.

Nothing has changed.

The latest for me is the same.

Most desirable to least desirable.

I would go Boston of the most likely opponents.

Boston Montreal.

Ottawa Tampa.

I got to put Tampa at the top of the list.

I just think that's going to be the hardest out.

You just want reverse.

Right.

But right.

But yeah.

So who I want to see.

Boston Montreal.

Ottawa Tampa.

Tell us.

Okay.

Tell us how you feel.

803-050 is the number.

Ottawa home to Florida tonight.

There'll be a big favorite.

Is Boston off?

I don't see Boston anywhere.

They have played an extra game.

Then some of these other teams.

Yeah.

There's a bunch of just like the other night.

There's a bunch of seven o'clock.

It was Tuesday night.

The sabers weren't playing.

But there's a bunch of seven o'clock games that are all pertinent to the race.

But yeah.

Boston is not one of them.

They are not.

I'm even looking at out west.

There's no way they're going out west right now.

So yeah.

You've got six 45, by the way.

People leave Islanders.

ESPN.

Yeah.

ESPN plus Disney, Hulu, whatever.

Lightning, Canadians, Panthers, Senators, Flyers, Redwings,

Penguins, Devils.

There's only one team that matters there.

But Penguins.

Those are all at seven o'clock tonight.

Penguins are pretty locked in at Metro 2.

I think.

I think that is right.

They won't win.

They are at 96.

The other four points up on Philly.

I don't know if they play.

Boston is off until Saturday when they host Tampa at 1230.

And then it's back to back at Columbus Sunday at six.

And they end Tuesday against Jersey.

That's Boston.

Possible that they don't get more than two points out of that.

Yeah.

98.

That puts them in Ottawa's sites.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Yeah, Ottawa's still played one fewer game than them.

Yeah, you said Boston's played enough.

They played the same game.

Number games is Buffalo.

Well, who thinks they know the answer to this one?

I mean, you got to think it's important enough to call in.

Right?

I mean, it's not.

It's just our new hockey lives.

We mean the goalie?

Yes.

Well, there's always that, right?

I like that too.

It's really almost the same point.

It's almost the same question.

Because why you, you know, how you might put it,

force Luke and into action tonight is with an eye on first place

and how much that matters to you and that tells you something

about their bigger thoughts.

It's an interesting list of pros and cons.

Yeah, I think you'd, you know, on the side of putting your best guy in.

Tonight, I mean, obviously there's not that many games left.

There is the time off afterward.

And, you know, you don't want to be sitting around all weekend

watching those teams pass you again.

You know, at least if you can get a 106 on the board,

you know, somebody's going to pick up two points tonight.

Hopefully the loser doesn't pick up a point as well

between Tampa and Montreal.

But like somebody's going to close that gap on you.

And then they're going to play on the weekend

and you're sitting around till Monday.

And, you know, that's just if you are stuck on 104 points,

there's a real good chance you're back in third place

by the time you get on the ice again.

I mean, you win the night, whether it's LS or Luke and in

or even Lion, I suppose, not like he's been ruled out,

but that seems likely.

So you get to 106.

Somebody wins the game in Montreal to get to 104.

That has to happen.

Right.

And then you're off until Monday and you're going to go to Chicago

and be minus 300 to beat Chicago.

Right.

To get to 108.

And then you can't be passed.

You can only be tied.

Mm-hmm.

I think.

So yeah, it sounds pretty delicious to me.

Yeah.

And the opponent tonight is fighting for their lives.

What about Luke?

One more question on this then calls.

What is Luke and in?

Hmm.

I think I want to change this word.

Responsibility or like a preferred approach to this question tonight.

Does he try to bang down the door to play?

Does he do whatever they tell him?

Like, does he get it?

Like, you know, you've gotten me this far and you're the coach.

I mean, I.

I want.

I want.

I.

I think everyone who's a competitor who's been involved in any kind of competitive sport.

And this is obviously the highest level in that chosen sport that you can get to.

The NHL.

You'd want the guy to want to play.

Right.

And that's where I think training staff, you know, monitoring load management,

whatever is got to have some.

I'm sure they've got a ton of data on frequency of injury, frequency of playing.

How often it does happen when a guy has played bet, whatever.

Like three and four hours on the, who knows.

It's all kinds of stuff that they would be spinning into.

And it's going to increase the danger, but it doesn't have to make it overwhelming.

I don't know.

Honestly, it's not, it's not information I've ever had shared with me.

But I think you'd want the guy to want to play.

And the idea is you have to, you have to protect him from himself.

It is why you're there.

You're the adults in the room.

Like, look, we don't want to put you in this position.

We got a big picture in mind.

Yes, we want these two points, but it's not responsible for us to throw you back out there.

Especially when you haven't done it.

I don't know when's the last time he, has he ever played like a Friday Saturday or Wednesday Thursday?

Like, he would be tonight.

I don't even know.

It was January before last week.

It was January when he'd played two games in a row.

Right.

That was not back to back.

Right.

That was a Saturday afternoon and then a Monday afternoon after, with travel in between.

Okay.

Minnesota, Carolina.

Yeah, that's right.

I bet everybody in that room wants them to play.

You know?

Yeah.

Does the captain have a say?

Is Jason Zucker around?

No morning skate?

I mean, no offense to the other guy.

Maybe he'll be fine.

It's just, I think it'd be tough to live with.

What would be tougher to live with?

Ellis, months since starting a game, thrown in in relief in Washington didn't go well.

Like, you're, you're up in the division with a weak left.

Wouldn't it be tougher to live with starting him and losing than Luke and in?

For me, an easy yes.

The injury risk, it can't be, it shouldn't be completely dismissed.

But man, all those years of goal, these playing all those games,

it was an injuries that were the problem.

It was like just not having as much success.

Right.

Fatigue.

Fatigue, there's that too.

Yeah.

That's why maybe the best point I've heard so far is how the third period went last.

One shot.

One shot.

Two minutes left.

He's easily saved.

He got to mostly stand there in the third period.

There should have been more shots than one.

Pretty great.

I mean, he was, he was moving around more.

But it was only one.

There were shots that missed the target that he, you know,

acted like I have to try to save this.

Yes.

So he didn't just get to stand there and lean on his stick like Ken Dryden in the 70s.

It wasn't a kids game where the puck was in the other end the entire day.

But it was not a hard, it was not a hard night.

At least the end of it wasn't hard.

Three days off.

They were kind of a mess in the first, especially the first period.

Holy cow, were they a mess.

Here's Kevin with us.

Kevin, what would you do?

For the Luke and in thing, you got a bang on that door and you got to hope you get in.

But you got to respect the coach.

But for, I want Tampa, you know, 301, that's who I'd want to go against.

You know, that close to being 4-0.

You mean, you're in the first round.

You'd like to drop to 2-3 with them.

Yep.

I can't get there.

I'm sorry.

It's the best team out there or one of them.

I mean, maybe the Sabers are.

Maybe it's Carolina.

But to me, that's easily the hardest first round to draw.

He's the lightning.

I don't think there's any, any question.

I mean, I'm even putting them ahead of Ottawa.

You know how spooked I am by Ottawa.

Hey, you are spooked by Ottawa.

Has anybody ever been spooked by Ottawa before this?

Yes.

They were pretty good there for a minute.

I also wonder, I mean, there's so much.

And this should not be the first consideration.

But like, Lindy has maintained all along here.

I mean, clearly they've, they've got their pecking order.

And, and when they were running hot,

it was Luke and in line just trading starts.

And Ella sort of fell out of the picture.

His terms just disappeared.

And that's what it should be.

I think he's the least accomplished of the three guys.

But Lindy's always made sure.

I think I even heard him mention it again yesterday or the,

or after the game.

All three of our gold tenders have done such a great job for us.

I wonder if they want to get everybody in.

In case we need Alice, let's get him a start.

Like, let him even, maybe he's known this for three or four days.

Since, well, the line didn't get hurt until yesterday.

So maybe he's known since yesterday.

Okay, kid, tomorrow's your game.

And just let him get into that mode.

And give him, you know, I don't want to say give him the chance.

Because that sounds like, you know, little loop.

And we're playing for the division title here.

But he's done everything that's been asked of them all.

And that's been asked of them all year.

I could see them wanting to give him another game before

he goes into mouthballs for the entire playoffs,

which I'm sure is the plan.

Look, let's, yeah, let's let the, you know, he's done a good job for us.

I don't think he's been great, but he's done a good job for us.

Let's, he deserves the game.

I could see Lindy saying that.

Well, that's, you wouldn't want to word it like that.

Lindy, you know, he knows he's been around a long time.

You wouldn't want to word it like, you know, it's Fred's turn.

He earned the game.

I mean, is that better?

It's three games left.

I don't know.

It really is, it's always this whole time been so interesting trying to fit.

It's more lineup stuff than goalies, you know, who plays on defense

and who plays on the fourth line.

Just like trying to calculate how much it matters to them to win this race.

And again, that's also not something they would ever say they wouldn't, you know, care about.

That's right.

You always want to, everything matters, right?

So you never want to say something doesn't.

But not everybody having said that thinks it's that important.

And that was me too at different points along the way.

Now I'm so close to it.

I think part of that did my own defense.

Part of that is or was that there were 15 games left or 10 games left.

And I'm still not expecting to beat Tampa out.

Now I am.

Now now it's like super realistic.

Yeah.

And I think that changes or it's reasonable for that to change how they look at it.

803 05 50.

What would you do?

We will break from the Sabers at four and talk with long time New York sports writer Mike Vicaro

who has a book out about the Yankees has written several books.

And we've been working with him bulldog has tried to find a good day for it.

The Sabers have made that tougher by always being interesting.

But we will do that today.

Mike Vicaro coming up pregame for Sabers Blue Jackets with Paul Hamilton is at six.

Get some masters takes mixed in along the way too.

Thanks for being with us.

Again, we're eager for your calls and we'll look for them again next here on WGR.