SHROUD OF TURIN: Physical EVIDENCE for the Body of JESUS!? (ft. Dr. Jeremiah Johnston) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

A real guy dot on a real cross for the real you and if you really give him your life he can really change you forever

I did my PhD on the resurrection. I've published 300,000 words on the resurrection

I was conditioned to be a skeptic on the shroud and now I believe the shroud is authentic pastor Josh because I'm not irrational

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Ladies general welcome welcome

episode number 69 of lifrey with

Jeremiah Johnson. We are really excited very excited to be here. Come on. Thank you guys

So for people who are unaware of what's about to happen

I seriously think this is going to be the most interesting episode of lifrey we've ever done and I'll explain why here in a second

We're going to go full Indiana Jones. Let's go. This episode. This is like the Vinci cold meets Nicholas Cage national treasure meets Indiana Jones

But without the heresy that's right

So here's my lead in

And if you're listening when I say this sentence if you roll your eyes

I'm asking you to stay with me

We're getting ready to spend like an hour talking about the shroud of turin. Let's go. Okay, so let me just set this up

I literally just saw this two days ago

I'm scrolling x and there's a new I think it was newsweek

They do this article. I'm like what did Jesus really look like right and they do this every Easter

And it looks like a Neanderthal that somebody drew exactly yeah in seventh grade. Yep, and so here's the question

What here's the question. What if we actually already know what Jesus look like

Because of what you're about to walk us through bro not only that Jesus took the first selfie

We're about to check it out

My four my 15-year-old daughter will be delighted and it was powerful. It was a powerful selfie. I'm very excited

That flash on it. Yes, okay, big time flash flash. Yeah, there you go. Okay, so let me set this up and then honestly

I want you to do the talking so this is a special

Pre-Easter episode that I think is gonna boost encourage people's faith in the resurrection

Significant thousand percent. Okay, so let me set up while you're here and why I would never have had you come talk about this

12 months ago

So no joke this is true story dude

So last Easter leading up to Easter I'm getting ready to just sort of debrief

It was a Sunday night of inspiration. I was like I'm a listener podcast a thumbnail pops up for me

Of you on the Michael Knowles show and it was about the shroud of turn and no joke dude

I'm we'll talk about this in a second. I'm team Protestant. Yep. So I'm like oh, man

Relics and that's that's like a Catholic then I'm super skeptical and I see the thumbnail and I'm like

Who hoodwinked Knowles? Yeah, that's seriously what I thought

So then I click it. I'm like what crack pie hoodwinked Knowles you start talking and dude no joke

I'm 20 30 minutes in and I'm like holy crap

This guy there may be something to this. Yeah, so

special pre-easter episode of lifrey

Bishop Jeremiah can we just let's stop you get on a Catholic

Let's just start right here. Okay, cuz lifrey. It's a bunch of normal dudes. Yep

Let's start right here

Quick introduction for people have no idea what we're talking about. What's the shroud of turn?

The shroud of turn is believed to be the actual burial cloth that Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus used to wrap the crucified

Brutalized dead corpse of Jesus in on Friday, April 3rd, 8033

Well, that was very specific. Well actually can I can I click on something? Yeah, Friday, April 3rd, 8033

Nissan 14. How are you getting that specific date? It's amazing

Well, it's because the resurrection and the crucifixion of Jesus is the best established fact of the ancient world

If we cannot believe that Jesus died by Roman crucifixion on Friday, April 3rd, 8033 based on the lunar calendar

Nissan 14

3500 years the Jews always celebrated Passover at the time that Taurus said they should based on the two

Opportunities that Nissan 14 could have occurred during Pacha's Pilots reign 26 to 36 AD. We have two options 80 30 80 33

Say that lessons again. All right, so during we know we know the dates of Pacha's Pilots reign

I know that's about 36 AD and you say there's only two operatives only two times the lunar calendar

Aligns with Passover on that Friday that Jesus could have possibly been crucified during his ministry and it there's two great options

Actually a Friday, April 7, 80 30, but I'm more convinced that it's Friday, April 3rd, 8033 for a variety of reasons that I get into

But without a doubt. It's the best but I do and so it's the best

But the point is if we can't believe that Jesus died on that Friday and rose again on Sunday, April 5th

Which by the way is this Sunday, April 5th? Isn't that ironic? Let's go. Wow

So April 5th, 80 33 is the day of the resurrection

We know from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory that Sunrise was 543 AM on that morning

We could go right and do that

When the women go to the tomb, they're going there early. They're following Jewish burial traditions

They're going to continue spicing the body. We'll get into why they're doing that and they're astonished because the tomb is empty

And they run to tell everybody about it and that's when we have this amazing sprint

I love that the Bible talk smack. I love that John wants you to know that he's much faster than Slope here

He takes two inherent verses in God's word to say when the guy finally got there we went into the tomb

And they see if you follow the chronology in John 20 this this is where the Bible is so awesome

I've read it a hundred times. I'm a historical Jesus scholar, but I was humbled. I felt like

Nicodemus when he said when Jesus looks at him and said you're the teacher of Israel and you haven't seen this

You don't know these things. I did my PhD on the resurrection. I've published 300,000 words on the resurrection

I was a complete I was conditioned to be a skeptic on the shroud

So I feel like the intro. I'm just mirroring you because I'm shuckling to myself

I've been through all of those things and now I believe the shroud is authentic pastor Josh because I'm not your rational

Okay, because I'm not your rational

So all right to leave this in because you're gonna

I want you to get some of this stuff that when I heard it for the first time legitimate

I'm upstairs in my little oh hanging out room everyone's about to get shroud pill dude. It's since

You know, I'm now here's what we do. Let me for people who are listening here's where you do

We're gonna let doc Jeremiah do his thing and then what I'm gonna do and he told me before the podcast

Not to tell him what objections. I'm gonna throw at him. Yeah, so you can do your thing and throw

Anyways, I know

Not had to help from a researcher also

So I'm gonna throw at you

The strongest objections to the legitimacy. I'll see what you do. So there are

Talk about real quick for people who are unfamiliar. We actually have Bible verses

About the burial clause. Yeah reference those real quick so people know what you're about to know what we're doing here is not

Antibiblical it's in the Bible

It's fascinating to me that all four gospels we have 89 chapters in the gospels all four gospels lead up one third of those 89 chapters

Or about what happened that Easter weekend and they all mentioned the evidential detail that there were burial clause

Matthew Mark and Luke use the term athonia

Which is exactly what's behind me right now what people are looking at a fine

linen burial cloth a herringbone weave

John's gospel comes along and gives us two other details

It talks about this pseudarium, which is the face cloth that they disciples find in the corner of the tomb

and then right and then we also hear the strips of linen and that

Excuse me as athonia sendin is what's in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Let me be clear. Sendin is Matthew, Mark and Luke

John is athonia in pseudarium

So we have three different terms for burial used in the gospels all four gospels

Make a very specific point that chronologically speaking when John saw the linen clause lying there

He saw and believed so that's my hope for the payoff of the of the broadcast today

You mean like John did he not believe before that? Oh no, he he was a follower of Jesus

But when he saw the shroud he really believed okay, so that's the payoff of this broadcast watching it all the way through is

Your faith is gonna be strengthened and you're gonna be you're gonna have a measurable strength

You're gonna have a first Corinthians 1557 58 experience

Based on this broadcast. I promise you. Okay. All right, so let's get into it. That's biblical

What am I looking at? Okay, and why do you think this thing's legit? I think it's legit because first off the shroud of turn

I I was utterly skeptical of it and tell I actually bothered to get past the sound bites and look at the substance

So I had heard about this flash my doctor father Craig Evans

He's probably the finest Jesus scholar in the English speaking world 700 publications on Jesus

He begins to tell me about the shroud and he's like Jeremiah

We can't quantify the amount of power. You should really look into this then my pastor Jack Graham on a Friday out

We love we love we love our grand we love him. He's the OG

He tells me on a Friday morning men's Bible study after I'd been kind of tinkering with the shroud stuff a little bit

And he said we'll get up and just share what you're learning and guys then I was like there's video this

I was like now I'm not going to stake my academic reputation on this but let me just share what I'm learning

But here's something for all the dudes watching

I'm looking out there at the time of my son Justin. I have four boys one daughter

Justin my son who to get him to talk about football or Xbox or girls for anything more than one sentence is an impossibility

He is locked in spiritually

And I'm just sharing about the resurrection and all the facts of the shroud and I'm watching my this is a 630 AM Bible study

I'm watching my 11 year old son and it is impacting him and I was like brother

I will go all over the world that research this if it gets you excited about your faith

Good job, man. So then I'm in Jerusalem

I'm filming a series and I've been in more tombs and anyone you've ever met in fact

I was laughing today because I was in the tomb in a mess and the the producers

I hope I don't mess with the audio they they do this and I thought what do you clap and for and like oh

We're scaring the snakes away. You need to do this in one take

That was it. Okay. I'm filming. I had a day off and I go to the Athonium Museum

And I see some of the show and tell them about to show your audience in you two car

By the way, we don't know what's coming. Yeah, so I'm very excited bro

It takes my breath away no one's there and it turns out that the Holy Spirit is really good at his job

And it literally takes my breath away and I have an experience with the Lord that

It's now the best evangelism

What we're looking at behind me is the best evangelism disciples discipleship tool

I have ever used and seen in my life

So we're looking at a burial cloth

We're looking at and this is typical we have hundreds of burial claws from the land of Jesus

Which is Jerusalem with we even have a burial shroud from the tomb of the shroud people can search this up

There were Bible deniers that said that the Bible was false because Hanson's disease wasn't around in the time of Jesus

Well, guess what the tomb of the shroud it was so airtight

That when we discovered it 20 years ago it actually has flesh on it hair on it and it has Hanson's disease on it

And it's dated from the time of Jesus showing that there really was

Let's see you said the tomb of the shroud that we discovered 20 years ago. What is that?

That's just another shroud tomb

We have so many different routes of different one

I'm just making the point that we have lots of shrouds. We still find those like all of them find them

And this one actually had leprosy on it proving that Jesus really did this one

No, the one the tomb of the shroud. I'm just giving the example

We have we have shrouds at Masada where you've been lots of shrouds at Masada

And so what's unique about the shroud of turn is that it has an image of a brutalized crucified man

That has complete

Correspondence with the crucifixion narratives that are embedded in the gospels. All right walk me through it

And by the way, this is this is it. This is it. This is this is the exact one

This is a one that well the exact one is in a reliquary and turn

But this one comes from Stera from my friend Barry Wall. She's now deceased

He literally did the Ted talk on the shroud

So we acquired based on our really good friendship

I acquired this from his organization and now we use this as this tool

And so what you're looking at that's 14 feet wide by about three feet seven inches and this is it matches

It's it's a one-to-one scale and it matches

No one else was crucified in the Roman Empire of the way Jesus is

This is the crazy thing the blood type that's on it

Two Jewish hematologists studied the blood hell in an adler

They're Jews

They're they don't have a theological axe to grind

It's type a b blood

It's human blood and the reason the blood is still read two thousand years ago is because this blood has been traumatized

It's from a traumatized individual that when you're experiencing torment and trauma your red blood cells break down and create extra

They secrete it and that's what's kept the blood red all of these years and there's blood all over the shroud type ab blood is

Semitic blood less than six percent of the world's population has it if there was ever a priestly line of blood

It'd be type ab blood so it's human blood. It's not animal blood

It's blood from a traumatized person. I read a recent hematological report

It the blood itself has high levels of ferritin in it which means the crucified man was experiencing organ failure

Kidney failure we believe he lost one third of his blood volume during the flogging and it's high level of creatinine he was dying

So again if you get all this from the blood samples they were in the fibers

These are published in academic journals. So here's the bottom line 102 academic disciplines have studied the shroud

600,000 hours of scientific research

And I believe the shroud is authentic based on their research because I'm not irrational

They all cannot explain how there's an image in the shroud

So the walks like a duck quacks like a duck it might be a duck

So all right

So like you know you you've kind of dipped your tail on the water here. All right walk me through

Everything this here. Okay, that makes compelling. Yeah, that makes people go

Do that that may have been the that that is that's the burial shroud of Jesus. Well, and I wanted and then how

What's the theory on how the image got on all the stuff? Well, and and also I want to pull up

I have a 13-second video come on CS Lewis's bedroom

I had lived in Oxford. I was getting my did my doctorate there had been to the been to the kilns numerous times

And I took my pastor there recently and I had never because again

I didn't care about the shroud so maybe I saw it maybe I didn't couldn't care less at the time

Well during all of this phase of research

We literally go in to CS Lewis's bedroom and we have a Lewis scholar who is guiding us

And they take us into CS Lewis's bedroom and he had a fire. It's a very modest bedroom by the way

But he had a fireplace and above the mantle of the fireplace is the picture of the man of the shroud

And I asked the question. I said tell me about this because I mean Lewis is no Catholic right

And think about it. He dies in the 1960s. He has on raise photo, which is 1931

I think that the next that was like high res for its time in the 1930s and she said oh, yeah

In fact, if we have the video would be cool to pull it up. This is 13. This is this is 13 seconds

This is me. She this is a CS Lewis scholar. We're in his bedroom right now you guys

He says that I literally pulled out my offense. I wait a minute. You got to say that again. Wait. Is that the wardrobe?

Probably

So Lewis kept an image of the shrouded Tyrion and Buddhist mantle pieces a reminder that our god had a face

And of the incarnation

Here it is. We're in the bottom right now

Lewis kept the s Lewis an image of the shroud so every morning his feet hit the ground. He knew our god as a face

Jeremiah for people watching this they'll be like well that that photo doesn't look like this photo

Can you explain that for people? Yeah, so in 1898 you guys

Photographies invented in the 1840s. It's not there's no professional photography in 1898 a Christian man by the name of

Sakhanda Pia decides he wants to take a picture of the shroud

We'd always known there was an image on it throughout church history

But dude something happened in the dark room

So this is before cellular you'd film this is before the days we could take pictures on our phones

I've seen the actual camera in turn. It looks like a dorm fridge. It's massive glass plates

Okay, the exposures took 14 minutes and 20 minutes each there was no electricity. I've been in the St. Giovanni

Cathedral. That's the St. John Cathedral where the shroud is to this day

He builds a scaffolding takes a picture

Goes in the dark room

In the dark room he sees the image of Jesus's face

Which he believes he's the first human being looking at the face of Jesus since the apostolic era and never more appropriately says oh my god

Yeah, and then literally literally oh my god and then he develops it

He's immediately accused of being a fraudster a hoaxer and I've seen the actual photo

And that's what's crazy is the photo negative is actually the photo positive

When you take a picture of the shroud when you invert your phone camera

You see it in all of its rich and amazing detail and we actually have I can show you on our slides here

We actually have an image of it

So this is what we have behind us and then in the dark room you see on the right all that on the right is actually the

Photo positive the negative is the photo positive and this is where all of the details come out in striking fashion

So start walking me through because you know, I'm I'm a dumb Kentucky kid. No, this just looks like a bunch of triangles in line

Yeah, so what am I looking at what makes us go? This is this is Jesus. So what makes us go?

This is Jesus is the image itself

Corresponds with all the ways in which we know Jesus was crucified

We see a man who has been

Crucified and pierced with actual nails in the right spot through his wrists

Not through his palms of his hands. That's medieval Christian art that messes all up

We see I can see on the right like blood you can see the the wrist cross literally and then we see I mean

I don't want to get too technical

But even the way the blood is flowing arterial and venous blood flow matches how he died on the cross

So the way the blood is flowing on his arms is the way in which it should if you were actually crucified

There's blood at the bottom and then behind me as well where the he the feet are crucified through the calcaneus literally right through the

Heal bones and that matches again

What we have of like the another Yehuhaan and poor soul crucify under Pontius Pilate

We actually have his heel bone and the nail going through it and the Israel Antiquities Museum

So all of this is exactly how the Romans killed

and executed

Non-citizens in the first century especially in the Syrian province of Jerusalem

Keep going though. We have a side wound. So the triangles itself. Let's go to the next slide too if we can the triangles itself

So I want you to see this the triangles are just patches the shroud has amazingly survived five different fires

There's scorched marks on it. There's water stains all over it

So you have to deal with two things you have to deal with all the contact marks on the shroud

But then you actually see the image which will get to this

Selfie, but I want you to see the side wound which if we go back to the vertical image if we can

I want to show pastor Josh and Carla. So look at that. Do you see the left side

Right next to the triangle the inner triangle on the upper left there is a fluorescent almost figure eight

Do you see that? Yeah, I do that is the way way to the right of the inner triangle. Yep on the upper upper upper

Torso of Jesus on the left side. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Do you see that? So it's the left side you can see that all

And and what is that that is the side wound through rib five and six

Jesus is

Holy cow

Hold this. What is this guy? This is a replica that we had made

It's not an artifact. It's an actual replica of the spear that would have pierced Jesus through rib five and six

And guess what it matches with one-to-one correspondence

Why does the man of the shroud have a piercing through rib five and six that blood is post-mortem blood

On the shroud that he

Metologist published it

Really? That blood is different than all the other blood on the shroud

John's gospel says blood and water comes out. Yeah

Serum album you limb. I'm probably saying it wrong. He's already separated front because I'm not pretending to be he metologist

He's already separated from the blood in that spot alone

And that blood's different than anything else. Yeah, because it's post-mortem blood

Okay, so it's common. I know obviously Jesus was stabbed on the side. That was not a common track

It's Christmas colleagues. That's right. Okay, so this was unique for Jesus. This is unique for Jesus

Which again you start looking at the probabilities

There there's no there's no broken bones on the man of the shroud now. I want to be careful

He has a separated septum that's he had he definitely has a broken nose, but no bones broke

That's just simply like cartilage

So no broken bones on the man the shroud either way for listeners that was prophesied exactly

Yeah, that was the prophecy that so let's let's keep going you guys more show itself

Just keep this one. These are heavy by the way. Yes, yes, oh hold this all right

You've got and this took my breath away

I think it's John 19 one, but I know it's John 19 and pilot had Jesus flogged

Pastors we go right by that verse

So quickly and it's like we didn't even read it

Jesus is flogged with that raw hide and

Remember the Jews had a rule 40 lashes minus one Rome had no such rule

And I am an expert in execution

So I know how dastardly I mean these guys would often be drunk poor antigeness who we have

Remains from in Jerusalem

He was crucified and then decapitated and they were so drunk they got the chops wrong on his head a few times

So we actually have evidence and

The Bible says the Jesus is flogged that Pontius Pilate has him flogged and do you see these barbells?

We've actually counted up the amount of

Shredding the amount of lashes. There's 372 lashes on the man of the shred on that front and back 372 total

But keep in mind pastor Josh. We don't have the side. We don't have the lateral sides

Because when Jesus resurrects

It's an image of the moment. He literally pass. We'll get to this through the shroud

We don't have the side angles

And so we can estimate

700 of these hit in the man's body

And that's where he loses one third of his blood volume and I want you to see the how short that is in a way

There is a really demonic intimacy to how Jesus is tortured and we know there were two

There were two one was hit the other one was cocking back to fire each time then they turn them around

There's gashes you know that what you just said from the shroud or from a historical sources both

They correspond

So but what I had never seen before was an actual this is a flagrum

This is a Roman whip called a flagrum so that match is being flagged and

We know that

He endures that most died 60% of the criminals just died at that point

So the strength the man I would like about Jesus. He's a man's man

He's 5 foot 10 to 5 foot 11 weighs 170 to 180 pounds. This is a very physically fit man

That's a lot of walking a lot of walking probably swing in a hammer with 20 20,000 miles in his ministry probably walking

If you count all the times he went to Jerusalem

But it doesn't end there so Jesus is flagged and all of this matches we all we're doing is we're we're comparing

We're we're almost doing a where's Waldo right now of

Okay, what is the Bible say and what do we see signature on the shroud? There's another thing that blew my mind

We already have your mind blown. I'm ready max fry a criminologist

Literally studied all of the pollen on the shroud

Okay, it's pollen season. It's Passover, right? It's Easter time. We're all well pollen on our vehicles

especially here in Texas and

He studied the pollen samples 38 of the 58 pollen spores on the shroud only bloom in Jerusalem in springtime

The other money getting me. I dude truth is stranger than fiction

So again, you start saying that one more time 38 of the 58 pollen spores on the shroud that

max fry a criminal a criminologist

Studied and as a whole respected career as a criminologist spent five years of his life studying the pollen gave five years of his life

They only bloom in springtime in the land of Israel

So if you're a hoax or how would you know that if you're a hoax or how would you know type baby blood?

How would you you would have to torture and crucify a Semitic man and then

Do it exactly how the Bible says then you'd have to rub the shroud through Jerusalem on Easter weekend at the time that all these plants are growing

You're starting to see why the evidence the most explanatory power shows that it is Jesus's grave close

And we have the moment of resurrection. We actually may have

scientific proof of the moment of Jesus's resurrection left on the shroud holy cow

Okay, is there I got questions is what is there anything else you're like?

Hey, man, I want to call attention to this. We're just getting started

He's more going there's more hold this very few people have held this

This is no replica

this we just acquired

And this is an actual first century crucifixion now

I'm not saying it's the one he's on Jesus. Of course he'd be very clear

But this was used to crucify enemies of Rome slaves non-citizens in the Syrian province

Do you see how it's bent Carlos and Josh? Yeah

What I had to learn through research was the nails were far more valuable than the crucified victims

They would use the nails again and again and again

Do you know why it's bent? I just did it from multiple use

Multiple use but not only multiple use oftentimes they would want to minimize movement but maximize torment

And they would adjust the nails of the crucified victims while they were dying and being crucified

Can you imagine the agony and so over time this nail has been bent from usage but also from torturing

And Colossians 214 I love this you guys

Paul says that Jesus took all of our indebtedness

All the debt we could never pay back any

Nailed it to the cross

So we don't bear that so many more

So I can I can bring all the faith lessons in with these and what do we see on the shroud

We see four piercings on the shroud two in the wrist two in the heel bones

And that's exactly what you're holding in your hands. So this is that's a six and that is a first century crucifixion nail

First century crucifixion nail from realm from Jerusalem from Jerusalem and it has a square shaft

So without a doubt it's first century and it matches another anyone can look this up

You can pull up the crucified victim called Yehohan and John

Who is crucified under Pontius Pilate? We actually have his heel bone

We have on all of wood actually washer these guys were experts. Yeah, can you imagine?

Through the wrist and then for anyone out there's like well the Bible says hands or it's all the same Greek word

forearm hands. It's just like an MBA. Yeah, literally. Yeah, it's exactly the same thing. Thank you great analogy

So it matches though the heel bone crucifixion nail that we have in the israel and tickities museum six inches long

And just imagine that

That's overwhelming. I didn't know you had that and it's yeah, it is overwhelming and it should be but guys we can't stop there

What else do we see on the shroud there are 30 to 50 puncture wounds on the head the scalp

The back of the head. Can you see those up there? Yes, you can in fact. We have a slide. That's really clear

That guy. Yeah, I pulled that one up. That's helpful

And then we actually have one with red where I've actually made it red

But this is this all of the blood floresces which is fascinating to me

It apps it actually floresces and so what you're looking at is all of the blood on the forehead

There's a blood you know

Literally in his hair all over his face. That's the broken nose

This is like a rendering that's a rendering of it and so

It's based on the shroud based on the shroud and the sudarium the face cloth and so that's perfect. So that one

Is amazing to me

Is it alright if I look around look back here of course dude right here

I'm gonna invert my phone like literally right there. Yeah, so let me

Let me do something right now and any one of you can do this

If you're having android go watch another podcast, but if you have a

There's other churches for you

If you have an android it's colors. It's color inversion for android

But I don't have an android. I'm gonna do settings. You guys do this with me. All right

So what do I go to just settings settings all right and I have the update

So I'm just gonna type classic invert in general. Okay, just under search. Yeah, under shirt classic classic invert

Invert and it'll bring it up and then just press that button your camera will do that or your phone will do that

Turn it on right there. Turn it on. Okay now open your camera. All right

Well look at the shroud

Oh wow and see how it pops, but what I wanted to point out was the back of what the heck

What the heck I had no idea. That's amazing. Wow

That's really can't wait. Can they see this? Can we get this on camera somehow? So yeah, you there you go

You can see how I look at you. You can see about. Hey, yeah

This is what seconda psc's in the dark room and says oh my god

But what I want you to look at guys is the back of the head all the blood on the back of the head

That's the back of the head of this is the back. Yeah, that's the front because I remember it covers him like a ptole bit

This he he's laid and then it's laid over. I see it. I see it germ. I there is blood all over the head

So if if Jesus was wearing a wreath of corns of of thorns or a sweat band of thorns

You would not expect to see there's more blood on his head perhaps than anywhere else

Which is shocking to me

We think actually when he was flogged they probably blinded one of his eyes because one of the eyes is literally

I had a dentist email me other day claiming you can even see his teeth which is fascinating

I haven't looked into that yet somebody probably shouldn't but

This is so the let's follow the chronology since it's Easter weekend

Jesus is brought before pilot

Pilate has him flogged that's not enough

And then he they fashioned a crown of thorns and they put it on his head

Now I have again a PhD in these things and I have never seen a crown of thorns until three years ago in Jerusalem

I brought one to show you guys. Oh come on. This is a replica

Wow

This when I was speaking at the world economic forum on the shroud not lying

If I'm lying, I'm dying my lips to God's ears

I'm speaking and I've blood all over my hand. I was wondering why everyone was looking at me

Well, the the replica I have had pierced my hand really yeah, so I mean it's this is just a replica

Wow wow

Okay, it looks heavy

That is a helmet of thorns friends

Oh, this is what so that is what they would have fashioned and that is

30 to 50 puncture marks that we see on the crucified man in the shroud and that's how he received those they would have fashioned that

rammed it on his head

And then brought him before the crowd and that's where Pontius Pilate and Latin we would have heard at show homo

behold the man

And

If I'm really being honest all of us would have yelled crucify him at that point

No one would be saved this man. We would be in that crowd yelling crucify this man

Jeremiah, is there any other historical source that

portrays the crown of thorns like this because I know historically, you know people picture

More like a

Medieval Christian art like the

Jesus the gay looking Jesus the Jesus with no beer that all comes out of Medieval Christian art

Not a Jewish man who was killed like we see in the shroud which we'll look at some images in a minute

But here's the faith lesson

All of us wander sometimes if God really loves us

And we can get so desensitized to the cross

Romans 58 is what the Holy Spirit when I saw this for the first time but God

Demonstrated his love for you and me and it's in the continuous

It's one of the two places in the New Testament God keeps demonstrating his love for us and that when we were sinners

He sent his best to die for us

Here's what I would say to you know some people wonder why would Jesus wear a crown of thorns

They want to humiliate the man. He's claiming to be king of the Jews. They will humiliate him in every way

Genesis also says that when Adam and Eve disobeyed God a curse fell on humanity and because of our sin

Creation was filled with thorns and distals and Genesis 3

And then so thorns became a sign of judgment

And so at the cross what we see is that that judgment was carried literally on Jesus's head

And so what that means is at the cross our curse became Jesus's crown

And so he willingly took the thorns and the thorns on him

And when I'm when I'm seeing this man, I'm just reminded that what the curse broke Jesus can restore come on man

Well across he does that

And I'm thinking of the fact I have four sons and I wouldn't give my four sons for anyone

And God knows me like no one else

He knows what a sinner I am and he sent his best for me. He didn't send his worst

He sent his best and

So anytime I doubt if God loves me today

I think of these thorns and God is demonstrating it even now what people are watching this podcast

That's why people need to share this with somebody who's hurting right now. Wow

All right, keep keep keep keep keep keep keep on going through this guy. There's a lot to take in man

So let's take in so it's it's so then

Jesus is crucified

He is he can't make it to the cross as we know so we he he's brutalized so bad and in one thing

I love the passion of the Christ the move the film but one thing it gets wrong is they show Jesus carrying the entire cross

There's no way any of man could carry that

So he just carries what's called the petibulum the cross beam and the crazy thing is

Beyond the abrasion beyond the lashes on the back

We actually have a diagonal right top right to left abrasions from him top the right shoulder

Down to the left

Literally the same abrasion marks from him carrying his cross

That's visible on the shroud. Wow. Yes

And jeez

I remember when I was on pierce Morgan

He was trying to catch me in a question that a lot of maybe you're gonna ask it with his body anatomically is all messed up. Why is why are his arms

So long

And man some 22 is just washing over me right now

He said my bones are out of joint

David says that

Profitically and I think it's at that point

When he's carrying the cross that his shoulders are separated even before he's nailed to the cross

Because he can't handle it anymore

You I'll just go ahead and say it you did beat me to the punch okay

So one of the things I was gonna throw at you. I'm just gonna read it

And if there's anything you missed just say here's one of the objections

Is people say man? There's artistic and anatomical issues. I'm gonna read it. Okay

The image reflects characteristics more consistent with an artistic creation than a real barrel

imprint

It doesn't look like a

Like a man wrapped a cloth with actually look and the guy has really long

Arms fingers, especially his right arm in hand. Yeah, and it's there. They literally step you're looking at he does

I agree

It's because his shoulders have been pulled out of joints and you what you're saying is hey

I agree we have Bible verses for that. Yeah, absolutely

Out of joint wow some 22 wow and

Wow, I gave my back to those

Literally he gave we see here in Isaiah and then it doesn't stop there because

This is why what you're doing this weekend at lake point everyone needs to be here

We can get so desensitized to Easter

And I want to show you something else

Not only would we have yelled crucify him. I'm convinced too many believers are way too desensitized to what Jesus at the price

He paid I tell people all the time now that the shroud is an itemized receipt of how much Jesus loves you

You think about all the financial terms that are used in the New Testament. We've been bought

We've been ransomed

We've been rescued. We've been paid for

What is the last thing Jesus says a CPA term to tell us die paid in full? That was literally a term of it was a receipt had been given

And let me tell you I'm bringing the receipts on the broadcast today because

I want you to hold this okay

I don't know what this is look closely and tell me what if they resemble

These look like little dice for a game

That's exactly what you're holding and those are not replicas those are actual Roman dice

Made of bone made of bone bone not human bone animal bones

And notice you can even see the numbers. They're from Jerusalem

In the first century. I'm not saying these are the actual dice that we're used

But Isaiah 53 and other passages said they divided they cast lots they gambled for my clothing

And that is exactly what you're holding you were holding Roman dies from Jerusalem. I just got these in the first century

My son jacks was playing one of my triplets was playing with him and we're in the we're in the drive-through of

Canes and he's like dad these stink. I was like son. They're 2000 years old. They're made from bone

That's a dead thing. Yeah, it's like wow they do stink and

Matthew's got well all four gospels tell us that

Well, the author of life is dying right in front of him. They're too busy gambling. Wow first close

Wow, so let's make sure that our hearts are not desensitized wow to the cross wow

All right germa one more thing because hold on. I got to go back to this one if that's okay, please Josh

So because you mentioned, you know, because everybody thinks this is like really long. Yeah

It would imply that the you said there were two guards

Yes, yes, it would imply that every single time

That the guards were hitting Jesus in the back or I'm assuming anyway everywhere

There would be sprinkling off the blood on his end room. Yes, it would have splashed all over him

And so man like you know just

You know first Peter chapter one verse two says according to the four knowledge of God the Father in the sanctification of the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ

And for the sprinkling with his blood

Make grace and peace be multiplied you it's a it's a sif then Jesus's enemies

Are hitting Jesus and yet the response of Jesus in return is his blood sprinkling over them in the same way

The Bible says that you and I were enemies of God and because of Christ

We've been reconciled because of the sprinkling of his blood over us

Man, that's a that's a picture of it. It is what happens with us wow at the cross wow at the cross

Oh, okay

So you want to keep going here? I want to answer. There was another part of your question that I need to crush real quick

What was the other part of your questions?

So anatomical in the image reflects characteristics more consistent with an artistic creation in a real burial imprint

I have to kill this for a minute. So

in 1978

33 scientists

Sturped shroud of turn research project

Get permission not from the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church did not have ownership of the shroud until the 1980s

That was something I had to get through. I thought this was some Catholic relic for 2000 years

And I get an allergic reaction to Catholic

Yeah, we're Protestants. We're out of Catholic relics. I got 13,000 negative comments for saying that on Tucker

So I'm ready for all of them. So I do I because I'm a historian

I you know

I saw the three wise men in the cathedral at colon give me you know the Thomas's pinky. No

This is an artifact because we can actually study it and test it with the sciences

So the stirrup team took several years to publish their findings and what did they prove this is the first time

I've used the word proof

Science proved there is no pigment. There is no dye. There is no paint. There is no color

And they were inconclusive about how there is an image in the shroud

Okay, so actually I want to get to this so tell me like all right

That's the question

So if it's not dye or figure theory on how the how did the image even get on this shroud?

This is where I got shroud red pill. This is where I became a shroud. Let's go. Come on

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The best scientists in the world and let me be clear

I've met with many of these scientists. I'm talking about weapons scientists

I'm talking about rocket scientists. I met one when we were doing our tour event in southern California from the jet propulsion lab

He's like oh, yeah, everything he said that you're it

He was working on the Mars project

And these are scientists Eric jumper John Jackson physicists who are at Los Alamos sandia laboratories

They work on atom bombs

They get the weekend with the shroud and they prove that there's literally no paint no dye no no brush marks

They cannot understand how there's an image in the shroud the best scientists in the world cannot explain it

So I fly to turn italy and

I meet with a guy named Paulo Delazaro

He is a he is a physicist

And he works at a neo laboratories. Anyone can look this up. He spends another five years of his life studying

How do you change with no pigment paint dye or brush marks? How do you change a

A made of flax essentially a linen shroud so they they literally grew a shroud

And they beamed their laser for five years at it and they were finally able to

Basically change the coloring of an and to leave a mark with that because otherwise you would scorch it if it's too hot

It's too powerful to just burn it up, right

They were able to basically change the the size of a postage stamp not 14 feet behind us

And he publishes

This went viral when I posted that on my social 34 billion watts of energy

Traveling at 140th of a billionth of a second to leave an image on the shroud

Is what Paulo Delazaro said light. So we're talking about energy cold energy

And this is the moment of resurrection. So the shroud is not a death cloth. It's a resurrection cloth

So I'm meeting with Paulo and I'm like, so are you saying it's Jesus. He's like well, of course

34 billion watts of energy traveling at 140th of a billionth of a second reminds me of all these passages

Because think about it Jesus every time he manifests himself in the New Testament he manifests himself as brilliant lights

The new heaven and the new earth someday will have no need for the sun. That's significant

I'm working with that for listeners. Yeah, trace that real quick

She got transfiguration his face was changed became like lightning

Obviously, yep. Yep, you got revelation. Yeah, but you have Paul and I have filmed on Roman roads at noon day

Okay, and in the land of Israel curved their first century roads. It's hot. I'm sweating

Paul says that he has an experience of seeing the resurrected Christ and if you follow the book of Axie says it was brighter

Than the noon day

Sun, so anyone getting chills yet

So what we have in this residue

What we have is this signature on the shroud of the moment of Jesus's resurrection that is so powerful

It literally left a selfie mark on it gracious. This is Jesus's selfie

So the theory is that in the same moment in the same way that at the transfiguration

Hey his face became like lightning

It kind of a hey upon resurrection that same light of glory manifested itself and left that that's the and it pushed a

2750 pound tomb out of the way

gracious, but let me show you this is animated. Okay, so play this for me. I want you to see

This is a shroud now hit play. Okay

So

Wow, that is what happened that slow motion, huh, so Jesus didn't like stand up like Lazarus and take his grave close off

His body emanated at the moment of resurrection through the shroud. What makes you say that there it is look and by emanated germaya

You literally physically well because Jesus appeared here in rooms and then disappear he walks you redore

So the body has new capabilities as ours will in the resurrection. Yeah, it is not it's not

This world does not have any control over him anymore, and so I thought he would like stood up and pulled off

No, so when John does anyone have a Bible John 20 we need to look at John 25 through 8

So we created this

Shout out to Stargate Studios and Malta. So this is what John would have seen

I got John so John 25 through 8. Can you read that? Yeah, verse five and stoop into look in

He saw the linen cloths lying there, but he did not go in

Then Simon Peter came following him and went into the tomb

He saw the linen cloth lying there and the face cloth which had been on Jesus Jesus's head

Not lying with the linen cloth, but folded up in a place by itself

Then the other disciple who had reached the tomb first also went in and he saw and believed

He saw and what did he see the linen cloth

Fascinating and you guys all dude. I'm just putting this together

So your son he may have gone in and seen that's what he imprint on the and I believe it was still glowing

Now this is speculative. Yeah, this is not his I don't I haven't proven this. I'm working on an article on it right now

Because he goes to the tomb early. There's no electricity. I mean this is this is an animation

I mean I doubt that the son would have reached it because they would have gone down into the tomb

I've been again in tombs

Toms or this was a rock hewn tomb

I've well, I've been in the actual tomb you wouldn't we wouldn't have had sunlight like that coming in

I believe the face of Jesus was still glowing on it when he saw it

Why don't you think about the verse to see see and believe about that verse

the

Give them the ability to see the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ

Dude the lot I'm gonna say that more time the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ

I had never seen that before it was not until chronologically they saw so this and then I do want to clear

This may be one of your tough questions for me, but I want to clear something up

There are so many fine Christians and I've gotten this email a thousand times. That's why I wrote it in my book

so

They say Jeremiah John's gospel said linen strips plural and they think that Jesus is a mummy

They think that he was mummified. So let me clear this up to help find Christians like me who get confused

by this

If we didn't have John's gospel the only word that's used ascended which is behind us fine linen cloth singular

John's gospel gives us the face cloth Sudarim which we can talk about but then it also uses this term

Athonia that's plural so I want you to see the we see strips

Around the singular shroud at the head the feet

um, I was leading the tour recently with a bunch of college kids and they all take pictures of themselves to sleep

You know with their mouth open and then post them at each other and bully each other and all that

So they actually would do that. There's a job and they just to dignify the body

So when you're dead you're not like, you know, they would actually so Athonia would have been probably there as well

That's where the strips yes, that's where the strips come from so we're not doing anything

Unbiblical here. We're we're actually exegeting the scriptures. We're letting scripture interpret scripture the four

Gospels so the answer is yes

To all four Gospels and that's what he would have seen which is so helpful. Okay, so like I was looking at this book

By the way, this this this this is great. Thank you. Okay, first of all for listeners

Tell the book is the Jesus discoveries 10 historic finds that bring us face to face with Jesus pretty recently published right yeah

Yeah, like in the last two weeks. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm already looking at it. Congratulations. It's awesome

We're we'll stick it in the show notes and I think we'll have some copies in the bookstore

But so you got this thing on pay. It's on pay 30 probability this blew my mind. Okay, so yeah

This is in so talk me through and don't we have this? Yes, we have the probability thing there are the two slides right there

20 and 30 this because this is not and then I want to start throwing at you. Let's go the objections. Yeah, absolutely. So

Here we see all of the different wound patterns that match the crucifixion narratives embedded in the Gospels

I want to share something with you

the most evidence that we have for antiquity about crucifixion comes from four sources Matthew, Mark, Luke and John

Okay

crucifixion was so agonizing and so it you're relevant to the Roman Empire because no Roman citizen was crucified

So we actually the best description we have for antiquity of crucifixion are the four Gospels

Tacitus doesn't really get into it swatonius

Diocasius Josephus a little bit, but as far as the description of crucifixion

Also, this is why if we want to invent a religion

We would have never invented it the way the gospel writers did I have an article or I have a chapter in my book body of proof

What the gospel writers should have done better if they were inventing a false narrative rather than a real one

Because everything they said flew in the face of

What the Roman mindset would have accepted and so look at this look at the scourge marks

You can see it the feet wounds the there's that side wound. I was pointing out the blood angle the wrists the elongated arms the wound pattern

There's those shoulder abrasions Josh. Do you see those right there from carrying the particular them on the left? Yeah top left. Yeah

His body is in rigamortis. This is important actually

So he's probably in the tomb 39 hours that's mark 1240 they say give us a sign

He says I'm going to give you one sign. I'm going to give you the sign of Joan my resurrection from the dead

So Jesus body does not decay. There's no decay on the shroud

So rigamortis usually lasts 39 to 45 hours. What does that mean Jeremiah?

Rigamortis is when your body stiffens and so his body would have been very stiff

That's why we even can see that like the buttocks is even like I mean

It's like he's flinching all over his body his muscles are tight

Because his body his head is elevated his knees are up because his body is in rigamortis at the moment of his resurrection

And there's no bodily decay

oozing on the shroud my body will not see decay

Sacrifices and offerings you did not require but a body you prepared for me

So there's no body bodily decay on the shroud and so that's what we see

So now let's go to the probability so fast forward barbarus

I meant I'm in turn and I have to meet this mathematician named Bruno

Barbarus and all the credit to him and the irony of his last name Barbarus is not lost to me at all this Easter weekend

He did a calculation. He is a mathematician

He has been with the actual shroud one over 100 times like if the president of Italy wants to see the shroud

Bruno shows you the shroud

He's given 4,000 lectures on the shroud. He's a mathematician. He doesn't have a theological axe to grind

He assigned this probability

That when you look at the all of the correspondence of how how the man of the shroud is crucified and you compare it

To what we see in the gospels

He gives it a probability of one in 200 billion that it is not Jesus

Wow, so I this is on my YouTube channel like I'm you know, I'm from Kansas. You're from Kentucky. I'm from Kansas. I'm like so

Professor barbarus. Are you saying it's Jesus? I write about this in the book and he almost gets frustrated and he's at time

He's like how can it not actually does it?

He was like him a lot. That's how I'm gonna say the numbers forced me to believe it's him of course it is

Wow, I was like oh I feel stupid for asking that but thank you

He said didn't you hear me one in 200 billion chance? It's not is he a believer?

Yes, a devout believer

Because he's a rational man, right a rational man, and so that's why I said at the beginning

I believe the shroud is authentically the shroud of Jesus because I'm not irrational

I know a lot more about the shroud than I do

How my car will work to drive me home today and I have no problem getting in the car and driving home

I've no clue

How the air conditioning works the transmission. I know some of the our audience does but I know a lot more about the shroud

All right, go back to this real quick

Yeah, is there anything you want to point out here? Can I ask a question go right ahead? All right

So like okay, but what about this like what somebody what I'm assuming people would say is yeah, man

But like somebody would just read they would just read the gospel accounts

And they would know what to put into the shroud right to match the

You know, so it's marksman's error, right? Exactly

They would know what to do so the probability thing didn't work

The cumulative data that you would have to add to that then is okay

You would have to actually crucify someone to do that. They would have to have type baby blood

They would have to have pollen from the first century. You'd have to have a

Side wound in the exact spot between rib five and six another another thing that people would definitely get wrong

If you're a hoax or as you would have made Jesus much shorter

Because people often say oh people were only about five foot one the women were like four feet eleven

We actually have people crucified taller than Jesus

In Jerusalem from the reign of Pontius Pilate the tomb of Yehohanan

I think it was he was six eleven something like that six six to six eleven

So the fact that Jesus is five ten to five eleven

According to this you wouldn't have made that up you wouldn't have known that you would have actually guessed wrongly

So again all of the cumulative data

Is easy to respond to that and just say well no actually

And again, no one else crucified their victims this way you would have probably been more influenced by the fact that there would be no

Crucifix there would be no crown of thorns his legs would have been broken

It would not have lined out. Well, I'm just I'm I'm a dumb Kentucky kid, but I'm even thinking here for a second

All right, so like if the theory the skeptics have is this thing was created like the 1300s

1260 to 1390 based on carbon dating. Okay, I'll get to that in a second

I'll get it and see your beaten made of the punch here

So and what you said is if somebody had done that then they would have based all of this on medieval right art

And to your point earlier all medieval art for instance with the crown of thorns. Yes, all medieval art makes it like a wreath and through the palms

Yeah, yeah, that's right all of that and that's right and but on the shroud it's a it's a help

So there's things like that's like man

It was a long beard as long hairy as a beard that's been plucked in the front. Okay, so

So don't you have something about the face? Yes, okay, so these are all what we call the icons

These are all and that's just a fancy word for paintings of Jesus

That are very old the christ pantocrotter one in the top right corner is the most famous

That's it st. Catherine's monastery that dates to the mid-sixth century

So 550 something like that top right top right of that of what we're looking at

So all of these look the same to me they all and there's over 200 by the way

I couldn't fit them all in one slide, but like hit that what is the source material that all these people are using

For the shroud or for the for the face of Jesus. Let's pull it up now

bro

How would they know?

They had to have source material

Before the fifth century fort six century and they all match this and dude

I've got some more show and tell now this is super crazy what I have right now

Okay

This this you have to go over to the Hagia Sophia and in Istanbul to see but mine's better than the one they have there

Come on man. I have got a

Roman solidus in my hand. It's solid gold. It's from the late seventh century. What I want you to look at the face

That is holy cow. What does that look like? Yeah, it looks like that

Yeah, looks just like that. So wait is there a way for me to hold this up with the camera somehow

There you go. Yeah, it looks like a it looks like an iPod

Well this

Well, they're good news is there's pictures of it in my book. Yeah, we'll show as well in post here. Yeah. Yeah

We'll show this story. We'll help us out here. This is a true story

I had just acquired a bronze coin. This is a hilarious story. I've time to tell it

I just acquired a bronze coin of hair of the great

And all the coins in Jesus's aid this is important for people that love the Bible. They're in the genitive

Herado Basileu of hair of the great the coins likeness it literally belonged to them

So there's a whole faith lesson in there when Jesus said whose image is this give to Caesar what Caesar

But give God your life because my image is on you. That's a different story

So I want to show this friend of mine bob chitwood shout out to bob chitwood helps me all over the world

And he and I said meet me on Wednesday night at church at Prestonwood and I will I'm going to show you my coin

He's like, okay, well, I got something to show you too. I was like all right

And so we meet in the pew and he's like

During during COVID I got into buying gold and he said I have this coin

And I want you to just look at it and tell me what you think

And he hands me dude the Justinian Roman solitists that has a strike on it that it's almost mint condition

Which is why I said it's better than the ones the Higgies Sophia. He handed you that he hands me this okay. I said Bob

Look at what you're looking at

He said what I said, what does that look like he's well that looks like the shroud

I've never seen that I've never noticed that before I said dude

This is a Roman solitist of Justinian that Alan Wagner

A professor at Duke University

Pointed out that there are 200 points of correspondence between this coin and the face of the man in the shroud

Far beyond what's acceptable in a court of law so what's the theory on how that the theory well first off

That's in the 600s. It's the first coin with Jesus on it

There's a whole thing in there. He's battling the caliphate which is Islam is killing all the Christians they can and his last stand is

I'm going to put Jesus on the money because he's Christ Lord of all and he puts himself on the back as a mark of humility

And but Wagner gets this from Duke University you can look this up and he sees 200 points of correspondence between that face

So again, it all goes back to the same source material in this all

Antidates that predates the medieval dating by seven 800 years. How do you explain that okay?

So that leads me to this objection

So I'm going to read it to you

So I guess it was in 1988

Yeah, there was like a few labs this started doing carbon dating totally corrupt can't wait to talk

Okay, I've never heard this one before. Yeah, I'm ready for it. I'm just okay. So in 88 hold my coffee. Well

Okay, I got you. I got you some lab started doing carbon dating

They're doing carbon dating on the thing and they date it to I've got it right here to the 13

That's exactly it to between 1260 and 1390

AD

Which coincides with the shrouds appearance in France in the 14th century what say you doc

utterly corrupt data based on not what I'm saying the

2019 Journal of Archaeometry published by the same Oxford University that says now

You cannot use that carbon dating because based on the raw data which the British Museum suppressed for 27 years

My friend Tristan Cassia Blanca just published a book on this he did the equipment

He's a Frenchman he did the equivalent of a and we just spoke at the International Shroud conference together

He did the equivalent of what we call an America like a freedom of information act took years

Got the raw data finally of what they actually tested on the shroud

And they tested the one corner that all the scientists from 1978 said don't test this don't test the corner

It's been patched you're gonna find cotton fibers like

Because even this shroud we I don't know if you notice we have gaff tape on the corners

It's already falling apart on the ends and this is a replica

So obviously the church is smart enough to know hey this thing's kind of fraying on the edge

So we're gonna patch it with cottons which anyone can see under a microscope

But the rest is fine linen

So they supposedly take the top left piece the rayus fragment and they test it seven labs are supposed to test it only three do Oxford, Zurich and Arizona

One guy is awarded a five million dollar endowed chair

You can look this up for yourself after he writes it on the chalkboard and sits there like this 1260 to 1390

The corrupt British Museum that I've been in a thousand times

Suppresses the raw data for 27 years so according to my buddy Tristan

What they found and what the journal of archaeometry points out in 2019 is the sample that they tested

Is not homogenous with the shroud itself they may not have even tested the shroud what because it's a corrupted piece or if they did

It's one of those patched pieces

So if we were to line up if we were to stack up all the evidence against the shroud the only evidence that I ever hear is this carbon dating

And maybe I'll hear new stuff today with these questions

But you cannot use that that is not acceptable anymore. You need to update your research. When did that change?

2019 the journal of archaeometry and then with this freedom of information act

We're now we can actually see that the samples they used are not homogenous with the shroud and then there's new testing happening in

2024 2025 well, and then that's the other I get into the five ways on my book that the shroud has also been dated

The Institute of crystallography and this has been crazy to learn all this y'all

Wide-angle x-ray scattering waxes dating

Remember I said there we have lots of other shrouds from the land of Israel

Has compared the date of a shroud without a doubt dated to the 80s 70s

With the shroud of turns we have a shroud from misata and then we have the shroud of turn

They have both been getting old together at the same time

They can tell the degradation on the shroud that it's been getting old based on waxes dating for 2000 years

Wow, so it's been getting older for a lot longer than 700 years. Wow. Okay. Show me the do the face thing real quick

This is a shout out to my friend Doug Powell an awesome scholar an apologist

This is what he created a mid-journey

Look at that. So this is based on the shroud and he did and like Jesus may have looked like that

Absolutely did he's he's an olive-skinned Jewish man long beard long hair

Don't read the Corinthians passage about short hair

Don't don't read that at me don't I suggest that at me no Jewish man had short hair

And didn't have a little beard and and and this is cool the way Doug did this

Well, why don't you want to ask about it? But he inserted just two things in the mid-journey

The image of the shroud and then the Christ Panto-Crotter icon just those two things and then I give more of this on my Instagram

The whole story of it and that's what becomes the cover of my book holy chaos. I think it's so

Striking to see that's likely what Jesus's resurrection face looked like. Okay, so I am gonna read the first review

Okay, that was one of my questions. Let's do hair like see together

So out of context. So two yeah, two biblical objections to this number one

Dr. Johnston doesn't this violate the second commandment against having images. Hold my coffee again

Number one number two what about first Corinthians 1114 where Paul says does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair

It's a shame to him. So Dr. Johnston. Yeah, obviously

Jesus wouldn't have had long hair and God wouldn't have preserved a quote-unquote graven image

All right, thank you for these great questions

So I as Barry Schwartz the same thing and again, I want to appeal to him because he gave the Ted talk on the shroud

And then he later published an awesome journal article

I I was the editor of a journal called the the city when I was a professor at Houston Babish University

And I asked him to answer the five top of objections and I summarized that and give him all the credit in my book

And I said isn't this a graven image the second commandment just for the benefit of our audiences

You will have no other gods you're gonna worship a tree god or anything you made and oh Barry said and this is a Jewish man

Barry said oh, that's so easy to answer

The shroud is not man-made so it's not a graven image

It's a moment of resurrection. Yeah, no no man made the shroud so we're in by the way. I've had the shroud

Literally this replica all over the world with me. I think we put 125,000 people through our exhibits last year

I've never seen one person worship it. I've never seen one person pray to it now. Can I tell you this?

I got on my knees

In front of the actual shroud and I didn't pray to the shroud or worship it

But I had a moment where I said Jesus make me a more ardent defender of the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ

Please I rededicate my life to you right now

So it's like taking people to Israel

So the Corinthians passage if you've been to Corinth they had short hair there

They looked like Romans if you studied Jesus in Judeaica himself

No Jewish man, and I answer this extensively. They all would have had beards. They all would have had longerish hair

And there's no correction there needed because again Paul is writing to the church at Corinth

This is I've been to Corinth you guys probably have too many times

This is not a Jewish community. This is a this is a Roman area

So very very simply and again, you know Paul took the Nazareth out he shaved his head

He did some interesting things

But there's there is no

Evidence that any Jewish man in the 20s and 30s AD would have had no beard and short hair at all

Interesting to your point what you said earlier

So we already mentioned that CS Lewis strikingly that this really surprised me this CS Lewis had an image of it so much

That's right and to your point that is why in he was so he wrote a letter to an Anglican nun

About the shroud and he said I'm gonna I'm gonna read him

This was CS Lewis letter back to her. Thank you so much for the head of our Lord from the shroud

It is grown upon me wonderfully. I don't commit myself to the genuine is basically going. I don't know

Yeah, yeah, I'm back then totally understandable

He said one can ever be quite certain but the great value is to make one realize he was a man

And once even a dead man

There is so much difference between a doctrine and a realization and he had that photo framed

So that he would remind himself this was not some abstract doctrine like a real guy

Dot on a real cross for the real you and if you really give him your life

He can really change it forever and that's powerful. That's it man. Yeah, okay

So yeah, okay, you got those so those that you got those objections. Yeah, those those objections anymore

Okay, yeah, I gotta do a couple of this. All right. What about this Dr. Johnson? Yes, you can just call me JJ

I'm trying to think something

JJ hey, but but there is simply no historical evidence of the shroud before the mid 14th century in fact

Bishop Pierre something I can't pronounce a French name. Yeah

Who had jurisdiction of the church where the shroud was located told the Pope the shroud was a forgery

Yeah, and said the previous bishop identified the artist. I've responded to that completely in a blaze article

We should put in the show notes. Yeah

Down the rabbit hole, okay, and I don't want to lose the audience

But it is not a forgery at all in their reasons he wrote that that I literally just blast out of the park

But can we bring up we actually have a map of the provenance?

This is the term of the shroud. We know that Eusebius references the face cloth the shroud is

Yes, the face of the greatest churches early church. Yeah, he was there at the council of NYSEA

So if we play this this is the route that we have historically of the shroud

We know it's in the desa and 544

How do we know that based again? Thank you to Eusebius the early church historian and others who talk about the fact that there's this face image cloth at a desa

And it actually gets lost and refound yes gets lost and refound any desa that's 544

It's interesting how it it it races away from Islamic conquest in Asia Minor

It's in Constantinople shot out to the Greek Orthodox who never get credit

They probably protected the shroud the eastern church for a thousand years before the catholic church ever had it

This is why I always say the shroud belongs to the unified church doesn't belong to the catholic church

And belong to the eastern Orthodox probably belongs to the unified church of the Lord Jesus Christ

And then it goes to Athens we know all this historically

It's cool though. You see Naples during World War 2

Hitler was fascinated with the shroud and thought it would give him power to win

So that's a whole story in and of itself how literally at the abbey

In Naples the monks there protected the shroud from Nazi SS when they came to try to find my kind of monk dude

I would like those they had no idea was in the altar that they were literally going around they get

They're like just keep praying and singing in the Nazis left and they were looking for the shroud

So that's only time it's been out of turn since 1578 turn is in Italy nor they're in Italy

And so again there this is the very clear provenance that it goes way before shamblery france leery

We actually have it far before that but again, I always tell people this

It's no it's only been known as the shroud of turn since the 16

Since the 1578 the 16th century it was known by different names before that thread history

Just like my beloved Kansas City chiefs were once known as the Dallas Texans

It had different names to it and so this helped me understand it. I'm a visual learner

And again back to the pollen you guys

The other 20 pollen spores that we have on the shroud are from all of these places

Are you serious?

I took five years to prove that to go all these places and match up the pollen. No way

That's stupid. I know. Wow. That's incredible. So basically you're saying hey man. This is just a lie

Yeah, it's simply a lie that there's no historical evidence of it before the 1400s

Get infected with a little history and

Easily answered that's fascinating

All right, we already did the artistic and anatomically. Oh, by the way, I want to say this where you're talking about constants and opal

One of the things is really interesting and I heard this on one of the other podcasts

One of the things is really interesting is that I love about this is this both a death and resurrection. Yes

Peace. That's right. So which is interesting because major world religions

Yes, Contra islam obviously islam says the Christ was not crucified

Yeah, so islam's claim is that Jesus was a prophet, but he was not crucified

I think the Quran literally says they crucified him not yeah with an exclamation point

So they deny obviously the crucifixion and then obviously Judaism denies the resurrection

Well, you got right here is essentially you would you would have proof of both

death

And resurrection and burial too. I would add that you have death burial and resurrection

In one artifact and nothing outside the Bible does that except the shroud that addresses the atheist

There's an English claim there that the body could have been stolen right yeah, no with no not not would Jewish burial traditions

Not in non-war time absolutely not so I would about this doc

JJ

The but but but JJ the shroud fits perfectly into a period when relics were widely produced and circulated

Why should I believe this is any more authentic than pieces of the quote true cross? Yeah

Or a minute now wait or many other holy objects now first of all me and Carlos are doing a little research before this

And we found some old Martin Luther quotes about relics that are too funny not to read

So I'm going to read these and then you can respond to objections. So by the way

Don't get offended. No, he's not going to get it. I'm not a captain. I'm kidding. I'm kidding

This is team Protestant all the way right here

So first of all for anybody that doesn't know a product Martin Luther obviously kind of kicked off the Protestant Reformation

5,500s

Was ardently

Passionately against relics so I'm going to read some amazing Martin Luther quotes

What lies by the way the other thing I'll say is Martin Luther had a very spicy sense of humor

Yes, he did very and he had a brewery

In his basement that his wife

Led for him and he had a library in his bathroom. I've been in it. So the man in his bathroom had a library at his toilet

What's funny about that is apparently what she would apparently he had some form of like

IBS like yeah, so that's why I had a library. Yeah, the library built in his

Toilet like he's there's a literal Martin Luther quote. I'll put you right here this like

I break wind in Vittenberg and they hear it in wrong. Yeah, like that's a literal

Luther quote. So here's some Martin Luther quotes for you

What lies are there about relics? That's a real quote by the way look that up. We look that up

What lies are there about relics one claims to have a feather from the wing of the angel Gabriel

And the Bishop of Mayans has a flame from Moses burning bush. How does it happen? This is amazing

How does it happen that 18 apostles are buried in Germany when Christ only had 12

I'll give you another one. Here's another one. These are funny

If all the piece he's mocking the Catholic Church's ways doing

If all the pieces of the true cross were collected together, they would fill a whole ship. Yep. Yeah

The gospel testifies there was only one cross one last one

There are enough nails from the Holy Cross. So by the way for listeners if you didn't know this little church history

especially in the early medieval period

tons of Catholic churches would claim to have some relic that dated to the actual events

And so he's saying is they were just making up tons of them

So here's another one. There are enough nails from the Holy Cross and various parts of the world to show a whole team of forces

So JJ

It seems like man this just arose right in that period when all these relics were happening and man

Aren't we Protestants? We're against relics. No, we're well

We are absolutely. There's 20,000 relics and they have different degrees

Knowles and I were just talking about this last week and here's the interesting thing about the shroud

It's not a relic. It's an artifact because it can be tested with the sciences

And there's one other artifact of the Catholic Church has the Sudarium of Oviato

Which we have an entire chapter that Doug Powell contributed to my book

That's the face cloth the Sudarium that also has type AB blood on it

No image, but it matches blood type which is fascinating. We can jump into that. But I want to answer this

Martin Luther is in a time where to be a priest these these men were utterly corrupt

Don't think like your modern pastor today good man

Living moral lives first Timothy three Titus one commitments. No

These guys were some of the most corrupt people that you could meet

John Tetzl is popular at this time who said famously every time a coin in the coffer rings

A soul from purgatory springs. I've been to the home of John Tetzl

And so the relics it's interesting Frederick the wise protects

I don't want to geek out on the reformation

But Frederick the wise is the protector of Martin Luther

And he he's the one who actually has Luther abducted so he's not burned at the stake

And then protects him at the Vartburg castle where I've been

And it was interesting by the end of Martin Luther's discipleship and Frederick the wise's life

He had actually put away all the relics he owned because he was growing in his love for God's words

So just a little side off there. So I agree that I'm not I'm not here to defend Catholic relics of any kind

And especially how they were misused and abused to

Give people absolution and salvation and pay for forgiveness and pray for the dead and all anti-biblical

But again, I've realized the shroud is an relic. It's an artifact

It's been tested by the sciences and that's what you're saying is man

Honestly, it's just not true

That the evidence points to arising in the medieval period during this era of relics

Exactly. It's just not what the evidence is and I'm not the only one

I mean there is a growing number of biblical scholars and archaeologists that feel the same way that I do based on the

evidence

Let me ask you two quick final questions here all right

So let's just say let's say some day it comes out that man actually it was a host. Yeah, all right

someday somebody finds an old journal from

You know 1360 whatever it is and some guys like oh man. I did it. Yeah

Yeah, that kind of thing

Does that affect your faith in the resurrection at all not one bit why not because

Again, their evidence is so powerful that Jesus died and rose again

You cannot explain the suffering in the world without the resurrection of Jesus Romans 8 18

Jesus foretold it and mark 831 mark 931 mark 10 33 and 34 on the third day

Jesus messionizes

Hosea 6 2 on the third day he will raise us up

Jesus adembrated resurrection

Mark 5 Luke 7 John 11 gyrosis daughter the widow of name son

Lazarus he he showed he had power over death

Fourthly all of the archaeological findings that we have shows that the gospel narratives

smack of authenticity

Number five the resurrection was not what his disciples expected

This is where a lot of people lose out they don't realize this is probably why Judas fell out of the boat

4 q 285 the Dead Sea Scrolls community

Says that when the Messiah shows up he's going to kill the Roman emperor the cateen and he's going to proclaim himself

God cleanse a corrupt priesthood vanquished the temple and

That was the Messiah they were looking for this is why Peter and Matthew 16 23 says Jesus you can't go to the cross

And he literally says get behind me say I'm going to the cross

So his disciples didn't expect it and then how do you explain the conversion of Saul of Tarsus?

What we can say is that Jesus appeared to those who loved him

Jesus appeared to those who were indifferent to him and he appeared to those who were hostile to him

None other than his own family

Mark 3 his family thinks he's nuts

Mark 6 he's basically called a bastard by his you know this this this son of a Nick with this illicit child

John 7.5 not even his brothers believed on him

This is why we have the appearance to James which gives me chills right now even thinking about first Corinthians 15.7 and he appears to James

James is like a lot of our family and friends. They're the most skeptical of Jesus and he was he was humiliated by his brother

I mean think about it and yet James goes from skeptic to believer

I would have loved to be at that appearance tradition by the way

I could see him appearing to James at the at the at the home workshop, you know

bro

Check out my side. They got me good. Check out this dude

Here I am and here's what we know about James

He becomes a pillar of the church according to Galatians Paul sinks out his wisdom

James Peter and John

He's the pastor of the world's first mega church. So don't hate on mega churches. They probably James probably had

20,000 in this congregation if you count up the book of Acts conservatively

He dies according to Josephus in 8062. This is antiquities 20

Believing his brother is the Messiah

So I have four sons and you have to ask yourself this question critically

What would it take for you to believe your brother was the Messiah and to die believing that right my boys don't I break up civil wars every day

Okay

They don't think they're brothers the son of God and then I don't even have time to get to Saul and then finally

Everywhere the Christian message goes

Societies improved humanity is rehumanized. This is a message the gospel that's unstoppable

So I haven't even mentioned the shroud and I've just given you seven reasons that are my body of proof of why without a doubt

I believe Jesus for us from the grave and it comes out the shroud wasn't it. I'll say okay

Let's keep going. Yes, right

man

There's a bunch of dudes in particular like

You know, we we're hearing more and more about especially like long distance truckers and bunch of guys who were like, man

You know kind of trying to figure out the Jesus thing, but you know, I maybe I don't know

And what would you say to somebody who

They're hearing this and even while we've been talking and they've been sitting in a truck or working out on a treadmill

And like while you've been talking there's been something rising in their heart. Yeah, I think it's time to bend the needle

Yeah

What would you say that guy right? I want you to pray the prayer that the center prayed that Jesus heard

Lord

Be merciful to me a center that's enough

You don't need the right words or formulaic Jesus. I trust that your payment was enough for me on the cross and that you rose again

I believe that so Jesus I trust in you to forgive me in my sins. That's all you have to pray

You don't even need to pray just believe it and the in the proclaim Jesus is Lord Romans 109 and you'll be forgiven

There's a second person I want to talk to this Easter weekend

Maybe you're coming to Lake point this weekend for the first time without someone you love you've lost a loved one

You've lost maybe a child maybe a husband a wife a best friend

The beauty of the resurrection as we can talk about our loved ones in the present tense because of the glory of the resurrection

First Thessalonians 4 we agree, but we don't agree without hope John 1419

Jesus said because I live you will live also

Two dozen times were given that promise. So therefore we can be strong

We can be vigilant

Always abounding in the work of the Lord 1 Corinthians 1558

Because we know that everything we do for Jesus matters because of the resurrection

Dr. Johnston Jeremiah

Would you please pray for the people who have been listening? Absolutely. Yeah, man

Thank you Jesus for the power of the resurrection and Lord Romans 8 11 your word says the same power that rose Jesus from the grave

dwells and every one of us is believers Lord

We don't know if it's 34,000 billion watts or what but we know it's a power we can't quantify

It's a power that forgives our sin. It's a power that takes us out of addiction

It's the power that brings our marriages together and helps us be better parents and so Lord

We want to saturate ourselves and resurrection power and so Lord the the whole purpose of this broadcast is not been to make us smarter

It's been to help us know you better to have a face to face

Look at you Jesus. We say with Paul and 1 Corinthians 13. We want to see you face to face

We say with David your face Lord. Well, I seek we say with John in Revelation 224

Jesus we want to see your face

Clearly and this broadcast is given us a glimpse Lord a blink a twinkling

And we can't wait to be with you face to face and so Jesus thank you today for the powerful truth of your resurrection

And Lord, we pray that you bless all the services at all the campuses at Lake Point this weekend that God your spirit would be here

Lord, I pray people wouldn't just invite people. I pray they would bring people and also those that aren't even

Here in the DFW area that they would watch online and get friends and family and I've watched parties this Easter

And say hey, come listen to Pastor Joster's message and no one to service is Lord. We pray in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. You're my thank you. Thank you guys

You