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Discerning Hearts.com In cooperation with the ablates of the Virgin Mary presents, struggles
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in the spiritual life, their nature and their remedies, with Father Timothy Gallagher.
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Father Gallagher is the author of many best-selling books on the theology and spirituality of
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St. Ignatius of Loyola.
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He holds the St. Ignatius chair of spiritual formation at St. John Theological Seminary
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in Denver, Colorado.
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Struggles in the spiritual life, their nature and their remedies, with Father Timothy Gallagher.
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I'm your host, Chris McGregor.
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Welcome back, Father Gallagher.
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I'm always happy to be here, Chris.
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Even when it pertains to struggling in the spiritual journey?
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Well, as we've been saying, this is not primarily about struggles.
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It's about freedom from struggles.
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We're only naming the struggles in order to show with Ignatius and with the Church's wisdom
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how to identify them and then to overcome them.
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Yes, I'm very happy to talk about overcoming struggles.
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I think it's great because you are leading us to connect with the divine physician,
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the one who can help us and is waiting to help us in these struggles.
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Of course, I'm talking about our Lord and Lord Jesus is waiting.
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He's knocking at that door, isn't he?
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Sometimes we're just too tired.
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We just don't have the energy to go over and actually turn that knob and let him in.
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Well, I think that's a good place for us to begin with this next issue in terms of struggles
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and freedom from them.
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We return now to Bob and Julie, whom we've seen earlier, and they've gotten into the practice
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after supper when the children are settled and there's a quiet space.
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So just going out one evening or another, just going out walking through the neighborhood together
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as a time that they both enjoy just to be able to talk with each other.
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And this particular evening, they're doing this.
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And the topic of Bob's role in the men's group comes up two years earlier.
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So we're a few years later down the line in their experience.
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The former leader of the group had moved with his family and the pastor had asked
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Bob if he would take over the leadership of the group and he and Julie thought it was a good idea
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and they both recognized it's been very good for Bob to do this.
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Just get in this way a little step closer to the church and living his faith,
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to encounter speakers, to make the arrangements for the men's group.
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And under Bob's leadership, the group has actually flourished and it's now doubled in size.
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And Julie asks Bob, which is how's it all going now?
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And she asks this because she's sensed that something is not quite right in Bob.
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And he says, it's been good. You know how I've enjoyed it these past two years.
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I think God is more at the center of my life because of it and I feel closer to the church.
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He goes on to describe, but they both know the good things that have happened to their marriage
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and family because of it. And Julie says but something has been different recently hasn't it.
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Yes, it has. How did you know? I know you and I know when something is troubling you.
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So Bob agrees with her. Yes, there is something and he begins to describe this.
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Maybe it started when I realized that few of the men ever said thank you for the work I was doing.
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One of them also complained about the format of the meetings.
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I didn't show it, but inside I was saying, can't you appreciate what others do for you?
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Can't you do anything but complain? If you don't like it, don't come. We'll manage without you.
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Maybe this has nothing to do with what I'm feeling. I don't know.
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What I do know is that prayer has been difficult recently. It's felt empty and dry. So it's always
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the same pattern. Somewhere there is a vulnerability. And then the enemy will begin to bring these
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discouraging lies of spiritual desolation into that place. But again, our call is always the same.
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Be aware, identify, reject. And we can do it. This is one of the things I love when I teach these
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rules to people. And then people begin to realize, I don't have to live in subjection to these
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discouraging lies. I can reject them. Here are tools that our tradition gives me.
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And I love the sense of hope that you see dawn in people when they begin to realize this.
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So prayer has been difficult recently. It's felt dry and empty. I don't feel nourished by it.
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And to be honest, I don't really want to do it. I have to force myself to pray. And sometimes I
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don't. So again, we can feel spiritual desolation coming in there. And then a time of desolation
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don't make a change. And Bob is doing that occasionally. It's not be too hard on Bob. We've all
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been Bob at times. We all recognize that. I don't know what it's going on. I'm still praying
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the same way, but I don't seem to have energy for it. So we really don't see Bob being negligent
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too much here. In fact, things are growing. When you get that of scenario of a person who is
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faithful and actually growing spiritually, and then experiencing this kind of heaviness or
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discouragement of dryness, it's a very clear sign that these are the discouraging lies of the
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enemy and the callers to reject them. And he says to Julie, I feel the same about the group.
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No one would say I'm lazy, and I don't believe that I am, but that's the feeling. I just don't
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want to make the effort to search for another speaker. Make sure he's right for the group,
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get the pastors approval, contact the speaker, make the arrangements, make sure the parish hall is
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ready, and all the rest of it. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm tired of it. It's not a physical
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tiredness. It's a lack of desire, a lack of the enthusiasm I used to feel that we're really
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pinpointing there exactly what we want to see here. And Ignatius will call this feeling totally
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slothful, just no energy for spiritual things. And it's not a physical tiredness as Bob recognized,
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it's just a loss of enthusiasm and energy for things that he's loved doing, and that he knows
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I've been fruitful for him, but now that energy is gone. But troubles me too is that I feel this
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way about almost everything in my spiritual life. That's what you've noticed haven't you,
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and Julie says yes. And I've been hoping you'd talk about it. I'm glad that you are now.
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Bob says this is the feeling I don't have energy for spiritual things. I have to make myself do
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them. Those new steps I've been taking to grow as a husband and father would have husbands and
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wives could really talk like this. The church has a term for this, and she speaks of conjugal
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spirituality. You know, the way that husbands and wives together can share and live the spiritual
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life as spouses, as spiritual friends, which is such a beautiful thing and so strengthening.
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You know, when couples do it, the desire is gone too, at least I don't feel it. And as I'm saying,
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it's also true of the group. You know, Julie, I think it may be time for me to stop leading the
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group. Okay, we've got another classic sign of the enemy here. The proposal to make a change in
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time of desolation. Now if Bob and Julie are aware of Ignatius eight words in time of desolation,
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never make a change. They know clearly how to identify this, but if they're not,
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supposing Bob starts to feel like I think he'll say it here. Maybe the way I feel says that I've
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given what I can, I've been doing it for two years. Maybe the group needs someone new. I've
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been thinking of saying this to father. Suppose Bob is not aware of what's going on. Does not
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recognize the change made in time of spiritual desolation and does pull away. From leading the
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group, how many doors for spiritual growth, which have been blessing him so much, would be shut.
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But if Bob and Julie, maybe one of them sees it more clearly than the other, maybe they see it
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together, can recognize that this is not a time for you to make any change like this. Because of
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the desolation, you know, that you're experiencing right now, then he'll go solidly forward with this.
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So Bob, having said all of this, now turns to Julie and says, what do you think?
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I think that something is not right about this. You're doing excellent work with the group.
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More men come than ever and it continues to grow. Maybe they haven't said it, but that certainly
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is a thank you, and one more powerful than words. If you step down, I think it will hurt the group.
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And again, you can just see the difference it makes when we're not alone these things.
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And another thing strikes me as well. This lack of energy you describe is not limited to your
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part in the group. It seems to touch everything in your spiritual life, your prayer, your role as
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husband, as father, the newness you've been seeking, everything. That makes me wonder if the issue
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is not the group and the other things. Maybe this lack of energy is about something different.
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And so Bob says, if it's about something different, what would that be? And that's our question right now.
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I don't know, she said, but you can't be the first person to experience this in the spiritual life.
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I'm sure we can find answers, and I don't think you should decide about stepping down until we have
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answers. Wise words. I think you're right. How Bob answers, the longer this goes on, the heavier it gets,
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it's time to find answers. All right, so what is the answer here? All of the evidence
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indicates again that Bob is living a very solid, rich and growing spiritual life and is experiencing
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a form of spiritual desolation that Ignatius calls feeling totally slothful, totally is a powerful
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word, and you see it in Bob. It's kind of touching every aspect of his spiritual life at this point.
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No shame in experiencing that. No surprise when Bob or we experience that. Be aware, identify,
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and reject in this case. If Bob and Julie, they're absolutely on the right path when Julie
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wisely recognized that as a pattern. This isn't really about the group at all. This is about something
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you're experiencing more broadly right now in your spiritual life. And she also very nicely says,
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you can't be the first one who's ever experienced this. And there must be answers. And there are
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answers in our spiritual tradition. And this is Ignatius answer here that there's no shame in this
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and no surprise that the enemy in a time in which Bob is growing would try to discourage him
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through this sense of just having no energy for spiritual things. And with a little bit of slippage,
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he's essentially staying solidly on track with what he's doing. And the fact that he's discussing
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this with Julie is another wonderful thing as well in this. Let's note how Bob says that the longer
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this goes on, the heavier it gets. This is another key teaching of Ignatius when the enemy brings his
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spiritual desolations and his temptations. The sooner we are aware of them, name them and reject
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them, the easier it will be to reject them. And the longer they go on, the harder it will be to
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reject them. God's grace is always available to us. So there is never a point in which we cannot
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reject the enemy's desolations and temptations, but it will be harder. It's like a snowball rolling
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down a mountainside. It just gets started at the top of the mountain. You can just put out a finger
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and stop it. Let it get halfway down the mountainside, gaining mass and speed. It may run you over.
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So this is another teaching that can save us a lot of pain and burden and struggle in the spiritual
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life. Stop the snowball at the top of the mountain. In Bob's case, for example, what if a few
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weeks earlier he had spoken with Julie about this? The snowball would have still been relatively
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close to the top of the mountain. And maybe the following weeks of heaviness and loss of energy
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might never have happened at all. So the sooner we can do it, the easier it goes is across the
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board with the enemy's temptations and spiritual desolations. And again, to do the same thing,
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this will not happen. That long, dark, deep struggle will be much easier and much sooner
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over, you know, as we go through the struggle. Let me quote just a single line from Saint Benedict
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and his classic rule. And he says, as soon as wrongful thoughts come into your heart,
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though this is exactly what we're speaking about, it just begins. The snowball is just getting
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started. Well, what's the answer? What do we do? As soon as wrongful thoughts come into your heart,
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dash them against Christ. This is a lovely thing. Here is a large, solidly planted stone and rock.
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And here is, since it's representing the wrongful thoughts of the enemy and his lies,
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let's make it a mishap in an ugly piece of pottery. And you take it and you hurl it against the
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solid rock and it shatters into a thousand pieces so that it can never be recomposed again.
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That's what Benedict says to do as soon as wrongful thoughts come into your heart.
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Bring them to Christ, opening them to his power, use the spiritual tools, and they'll be
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shattered. And it will be over. This is another lovely teaching. One more thing I want to add here,
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and it's something that over the years, I've come to call pre-event desolation,
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which might mean, for example, you signed up for a retreat six months ago and you're really
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looking forward to it. Now it's two couple of days away and you start feeling, I don't know if I
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really want to do that. You have this time of prayer when you pray every day and the time approaches
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and something and you says it's just going to be difficult and heavy. Maybe it can wait to
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later. You've called the read or planned to go and speak with a confessor or a spiritual friend
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and now the time is coming and you find yourself thinking, I don't know. I don't know if I even
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want to talk about this. Maybe I'll just text them and say, I can't make it or
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and we could go on with this. Whenever we are approaching some solid, rich, beautiful,
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growing step in the spiritual life, we may at times experience this pre-event sense of
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heaviness that reluctance and I can't tell you because how many times when I do retreats or events,
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people will tell me that I almost didn't come, but then I'm so glad that I came. So I just want to
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highlight this is another quality of spiritual desolation. No shame in experiencing that and what
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it very likely means most often does mean is that the enemy is trying to discourage us from
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something that really will be helpful. I've come to see that pre-event desolation actually
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has a good sign because it means that there's something fruitful that lies ahead.
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We're returned to struggles in a spiritual life. Their nature and their remedies
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was Father Timothy Gallagher. Descerning Hearts provides content dedicated to
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those on the spiritual journey. To continue production of these podcasts, prayers and more,
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go to descerningharts.com and click the donate link found there or inside the free Descerning
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Hearts app to make your donation. Thanks and God Bless. A prayer of St. Ignatius of Loyola.
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Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty, my memory, my understanding, and my entire will,
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all that I have and call my own. You have given all to me. To you, Lord, I return it.
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Everything is yours. Do with it what you will. Give me only your love and your grace. That is
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enough for me. Amen.
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We now return to struggles in the spiritual life, their nature, and their remedies,
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with Father Timothy Gallagher. I can give you a story upon story about ever since you
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broke that open years ago from me and from many of our listeners. I have found that. That's where
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you've been able to stop at right at that moment. And I'm so glad that you referred to the writing
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of Saint Benedict. A lot of people might recall that, seeing Ignatius at that time at Montserrat.
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And that was a very, you can see how that influenced him and his, his love for scripture and his
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time to take in prayer and the rhythm of the day. And that spiritual truth and Benedictines
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will have heard in that naming of slows, the noon day devil, they will describe it as a monk
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who is carefully writing out, scripting out the liturgy of the hours. And about midday he looks
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out the window and then stops the good work that he's doing and doesn't attend to his prayers.
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And he just starts gazing out that window. And it just kind of, you're drawn to something else
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that takes you away from that relationship and God's greater glory. And boy, don't we all experience
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that Father Gallagher? No shame. No surprise. Be aware, identify and reject. Sure. It's just one more
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of the forms of spiritual desolation that we may have to deal with in this spiritual life. And
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probably all of us can recognize this somewhere in our past experience. What is important is not
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to believe the lie that arises from the enemy when we don't have that kind of energy. And the
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urging will be to make changes. Yeah, maybe I won't go to the retreat or I can let the prayer go
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to the later. I can speak with that confessor and other time and so on. You know, it's in time
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of desolation never make a change. You know, I said earlier that those eight words would get us
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safely through almost any darkness we would ever experience the spiritual life. And I think we
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can see why as we're going through this. Because that's what the enemy will try to get us to do in
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time of spiritual desolation. Bob, you've given what you can to the group, time to let it go,
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and we could go on with the examples. And no, that's a time to stay faithful, not to make any changes
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and to go forward in that. And what will happen is that the that slothful
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feeling and so forth, it's not going to last. The desolation will end and we'll be coming back
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to this as we go forward. Now what's key to, isn't it, that it was affecting everything.
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It was affecting at least in his prayer life and in his practices that a prayer that were
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drawing him closer to God. There may be cases, wouldn't you say, Father Gallagher, where
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you might be involved in one particular practice or an event or something like that where
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after conversation, discernment, you may have to pull out, but it doesn't necessarily affect
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everything else in your relationship and your fervor with the Lord. Is that an important distinction?
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Sure, yeah, that's a very different situation. And that's the other kind of discernment
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that Ignatius speaks about, discerning God's will and choices that we face. So maybe things have
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changed. Bob has been given new responsibilities at work. Some of the children need increased attention,
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whatever kind of scenario you want to paint there. And it may be that there'll be signs in there
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that God is asking him to relinquish the leadership, but that'll be a very different thing from
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this slothful feeling that just comes out of spiritual desolation and lack of energy.
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It's not a physical thing at all. You know, it's not that he doesn't have the energy for these
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things. It's just a discouraging tactic of the enemy, which we need to name and reject.
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And he's real blessed to have the spouse who's kind of watching on the side and seeing this,
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but there are those who are listening who will have that friend that may be able to point that
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out. A parent might be able to see that in the life of one of their kids or the kids might see
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that in the life of one of their parents. I know that I will share. There was a time when I,
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as an adult, was starting to slip and some of the things I was doing and falling into something
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quite like this. And it was actually one of my kids that said, hey, I've noticed that we're not
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doing this. We're in, you're not doing this like you used to mom. What's going on? So it's a real
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blessing to be able to take heed and listen to those who know you well. Yes, that's the other
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piece. You know, don't make changes in desolation and don't be alone. And those two things together
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will get us safely through any darkness we may ever experience in the spiritual life.
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One of the early biographies of St. Francis of Assisi, it's a kind of metaphor
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of Francis' spiritual journey. And he's reached the point now where he sets out in quest
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of countering lady poverty. And in the image here, she resides at the top of a high mountain
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at some distance. And Francis sets out along the road to reach the mountain in climate and to
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encounter lady poverty, which is an image of founding the Franciscan Order. And as he's walking
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along at a certain point along the side of the road, two elderly men are sitting. And they call
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out to him as he's on his journey, where are you going? And he explains that he is setting off
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to climb the mountain and to reach lady poverty. And they say to him, don't go alone.
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And in the metaphor, that's the origin of the Franciscan Order. That's the shift from
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Francis personally living something to being accompanied by others who will share the life.
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You know, that he's called to. And that principle works in everything in the spiritual life.
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And I'd say it's even more important today than in past decades because
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the culture not only does not support our faith as much as it did, but it even attacks it
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often enough. And so to have that network by which we are accompanied as we live the spiritual life,
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I think is getting more and more important. It's always helpful, maybe in a special way today.
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And it's so grounded in scripture. I mean, isn't that the way the Lord sent us out two by two?
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He knew that we would need someone, somebody to be able to at least walk with, if not a greater crown.
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Well, that's why Jesus founded a church. And the basic point of that is that we're not meant to be
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alone in the spiritual life, but part of an ecclesia, an assembly, where we worked out,
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lived together with others, and shared the spiritual life that we're called to live.
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Thank you so much, Father Caligar. Very welcome. Thank you, Chris.
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Or you can find it in the free Descerning Hearts app. You can also view the video of this
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presentation by visiting the Descerning Hearts YouTube channel. This has been a production of
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Descerning Hearts. I'm your host, Chris McGregor. We hope that if this has been helpful for you,
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that you will tell a friend about DescerningHearts.com. Enjoy this next time. For struggles in the spiritual
26:55
life, their nature and their remedies, with Father Timothy Gallagher.