SISL11 – I Don’t Have the Energy – Struggles in the Spiritual Life with Fr. Timothy Gallagher – Discerning Hearts Podcasts

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Discerning Hearts.com In cooperation with the ablates of the Virgin Mary presents, struggles

in the spiritual life, their nature and their remedies, with Father Timothy Gallagher.

Father Gallagher is the author of many best-selling books on the theology and spirituality of

St. Ignatius of Loyola.

He holds the St. Ignatius chair of spiritual formation at St. John Theological Seminary

in Denver, Colorado.

Struggles in the spiritual life, their nature and their remedies, with Father Timothy Gallagher.

I'm your host, Chris McGregor.

Welcome back, Father Gallagher.

I'm always happy to be here, Chris.

Even when it pertains to struggling in the spiritual journey?

Well, as we've been saying, this is not primarily about struggles.

It's about freedom from struggles.

We're only naming the struggles in order to show with Ignatius and with the Church's wisdom

how to identify them and then to overcome them.

Yes, I'm very happy to talk about overcoming struggles.

I think it's great because you are leading us to connect with the divine physician,

the one who can help us and is waiting to help us in these struggles.

Of course, I'm talking about our Lord and Lord Jesus is waiting.

He's knocking at that door, isn't he?

Sometimes we're just too tired.

We just don't have the energy to go over and actually turn that knob and let him in.

Well, I think that's a good place for us to begin with this next issue in terms of struggles

and freedom from them.

We return now to Bob and Julie, whom we've seen earlier, and they've gotten into the practice

after supper when the children are settled and there's a quiet space.

So just going out one evening or another, just going out walking through the neighborhood together

as a time that they both enjoy just to be able to talk with each other.

And this particular evening, they're doing this.

And the topic of Bob's role in the men's group comes up two years earlier.

So we're a few years later down the line in their experience.

The former leader of the group had moved with his family and the pastor had asked

Bob if he would take over the leadership of the group and he and Julie thought it was a good idea

and they both recognized it's been very good for Bob to do this.

Just get in this way a little step closer to the church and living his faith,

to encounter speakers, to make the arrangements for the men's group.

And under Bob's leadership, the group has actually flourished and it's now doubled in size.

And Julie asks Bob, which is how's it all going now?

And she asks this because she's sensed that something is not quite right in Bob.

And he says, it's been good. You know how I've enjoyed it these past two years.

I think God is more at the center of my life because of it and I feel closer to the church.

He goes on to describe, but they both know the good things that have happened to their marriage

and family because of it. And Julie says but something has been different recently hasn't it.

Yes, it has. How did you know? I know you and I know when something is troubling you.

So Bob agrees with her. Yes, there is something and he begins to describe this.

Maybe it started when I realized that few of the men ever said thank you for the work I was doing.

One of them also complained about the format of the meetings.

I didn't show it, but inside I was saying, can't you appreciate what others do for you?

Can't you do anything but complain? If you don't like it, don't come. We'll manage without you.

Maybe this has nothing to do with what I'm feeling. I don't know.

What I do know is that prayer has been difficult recently. It's felt empty and dry. So it's always

the same pattern. Somewhere there is a vulnerability. And then the enemy will begin to bring these

discouraging lies of spiritual desolation into that place. But again, our call is always the same.

Be aware, identify, reject. And we can do it. This is one of the things I love when I teach these

rules to people. And then people begin to realize, I don't have to live in subjection to these

discouraging lies. I can reject them. Here are tools that our tradition gives me.

And I love the sense of hope that you see dawn in people when they begin to realize this.

So prayer has been difficult recently. It's felt dry and empty. I don't feel nourished by it.

And to be honest, I don't really want to do it. I have to force myself to pray. And sometimes I

don't. So again, we can feel spiritual desolation coming in there. And then a time of desolation

don't make a change. And Bob is doing that occasionally. It's not be too hard on Bob. We've all

been Bob at times. We all recognize that. I don't know what it's going on. I'm still praying

the same way, but I don't seem to have energy for it. So we really don't see Bob being negligent

too much here. In fact, things are growing. When you get that of scenario of a person who is

faithful and actually growing spiritually, and then experiencing this kind of heaviness or

discouragement of dryness, it's a very clear sign that these are the discouraging lies of the

enemy and the callers to reject them. And he says to Julie, I feel the same about the group.

No one would say I'm lazy, and I don't believe that I am, but that's the feeling. I just don't

want to make the effort to search for another speaker. Make sure he's right for the group,

get the pastors approval, contact the speaker, make the arrangements, make sure the parish hall is

ready, and all the rest of it. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm tired of it. It's not a physical

tiredness. It's a lack of desire, a lack of the enthusiasm I used to feel that we're really

pinpointing there exactly what we want to see here. And Ignatius will call this feeling totally

slothful, just no energy for spiritual things. And it's not a physical tiredness as Bob recognized,

it's just a loss of enthusiasm and energy for things that he's loved doing, and that he knows

I've been fruitful for him, but now that energy is gone. But troubles me too is that I feel this

way about almost everything in my spiritual life. That's what you've noticed haven't you,

and Julie says yes. And I've been hoping you'd talk about it. I'm glad that you are now.

Bob says this is the feeling I don't have energy for spiritual things. I have to make myself do

them. Those new steps I've been taking to grow as a husband and father would have husbands and

wives could really talk like this. The church has a term for this, and she speaks of conjugal

spirituality. You know, the way that husbands and wives together can share and live the spiritual

life as spouses, as spiritual friends, which is such a beautiful thing and so strengthening.

You know, when couples do it, the desire is gone too, at least I don't feel it. And as I'm saying,

it's also true of the group. You know, Julie, I think it may be time for me to stop leading the

group. Okay, we've got another classic sign of the enemy here. The proposal to make a change in

time of desolation. Now if Bob and Julie are aware of Ignatius eight words in time of desolation,

never make a change. They know clearly how to identify this, but if they're not,

supposing Bob starts to feel like I think he'll say it here. Maybe the way I feel says that I've

given what I can, I've been doing it for two years. Maybe the group needs someone new. I've

been thinking of saying this to father. Suppose Bob is not aware of what's going on. Does not

recognize the change made in time of spiritual desolation and does pull away. From leading the

group, how many doors for spiritual growth, which have been blessing him so much, would be shut.

But if Bob and Julie, maybe one of them sees it more clearly than the other, maybe they see it

together, can recognize that this is not a time for you to make any change like this. Because of

the desolation, you know, that you're experiencing right now, then he'll go solidly forward with this.

So Bob, having said all of this, now turns to Julie and says, what do you think?

I think that something is not right about this. You're doing excellent work with the group.

More men come than ever and it continues to grow. Maybe they haven't said it, but that certainly

is a thank you, and one more powerful than words. If you step down, I think it will hurt the group.

And again, you can just see the difference it makes when we're not alone these things.

And another thing strikes me as well. This lack of energy you describe is not limited to your

part in the group. It seems to touch everything in your spiritual life, your prayer, your role as

husband, as father, the newness you've been seeking, everything. That makes me wonder if the issue

is not the group and the other things. Maybe this lack of energy is about something different.

And so Bob says, if it's about something different, what would that be? And that's our question right now.

I don't know, she said, but you can't be the first person to experience this in the spiritual life.

I'm sure we can find answers, and I don't think you should decide about stepping down until we have

answers. Wise words. I think you're right. How Bob answers, the longer this goes on, the heavier it gets,

it's time to find answers. All right, so what is the answer here? All of the evidence

indicates again that Bob is living a very solid, rich and growing spiritual life and is experiencing

a form of spiritual desolation that Ignatius calls feeling totally slothful, totally is a powerful

word, and you see it in Bob. It's kind of touching every aspect of his spiritual life at this point.

No shame in experiencing that. No surprise when Bob or we experience that. Be aware, identify,

and reject in this case. If Bob and Julie, they're absolutely on the right path when Julie

wisely recognized that as a pattern. This isn't really about the group at all. This is about something

you're experiencing more broadly right now in your spiritual life. And she also very nicely says,

you can't be the first one who's ever experienced this. And there must be answers. And there are

answers in our spiritual tradition. And this is Ignatius answer here that there's no shame in this

and no surprise that the enemy in a time in which Bob is growing would try to discourage him

through this sense of just having no energy for spiritual things. And with a little bit of slippage,

he's essentially staying solidly on track with what he's doing. And the fact that he's discussing

this with Julie is another wonderful thing as well in this. Let's note how Bob says that the longer

this goes on, the heavier it gets. This is another key teaching of Ignatius when the enemy brings his

spiritual desolations and his temptations. The sooner we are aware of them, name them and reject

them, the easier it will be to reject them. And the longer they go on, the harder it will be to

reject them. God's grace is always available to us. So there is never a point in which we cannot

reject the enemy's desolations and temptations, but it will be harder. It's like a snowball rolling

down a mountainside. It just gets started at the top of the mountain. You can just put out a finger

and stop it. Let it get halfway down the mountainside, gaining mass and speed. It may run you over.

So this is another teaching that can save us a lot of pain and burden and struggle in the spiritual

life. Stop the snowball at the top of the mountain. In Bob's case, for example, what if a few

weeks earlier he had spoken with Julie about this? The snowball would have still been relatively

close to the top of the mountain. And maybe the following weeks of heaviness and loss of energy

might never have happened at all. So the sooner we can do it, the easier it goes is across the

board with the enemy's temptations and spiritual desolations. And again, to do the same thing,

this will not happen. That long, dark, deep struggle will be much easier and much sooner

over, you know, as we go through the struggle. Let me quote just a single line from Saint Benedict

and his classic rule. And he says, as soon as wrongful thoughts come into your heart,

though this is exactly what we're speaking about, it just begins. The snowball is just getting

started. Well, what's the answer? What do we do? As soon as wrongful thoughts come into your heart,

dash them against Christ. This is a lovely thing. Here is a large, solidly planted stone and rock.

And here is, since it's representing the wrongful thoughts of the enemy and his lies,

let's make it a mishap in an ugly piece of pottery. And you take it and you hurl it against the

solid rock and it shatters into a thousand pieces so that it can never be recomposed again.

That's what Benedict says to do as soon as wrongful thoughts come into your heart.

Bring them to Christ, opening them to his power, use the spiritual tools, and they'll be

shattered. And it will be over. This is another lovely teaching. One more thing I want to add here,

and it's something that over the years, I've come to call pre-event desolation,

which might mean, for example, you signed up for a retreat six months ago and you're really

looking forward to it. Now it's two couple of days away and you start feeling, I don't know if I

really want to do that. You have this time of prayer when you pray every day and the time approaches

and something and you says it's just going to be difficult and heavy. Maybe it can wait to

later. You've called the read or planned to go and speak with a confessor or a spiritual friend

and now the time is coming and you find yourself thinking, I don't know. I don't know if I even

want to talk about this. Maybe I'll just text them and say, I can't make it or

and we could go on with this. Whenever we are approaching some solid, rich, beautiful,

growing step in the spiritual life, we may at times experience this pre-event sense of

heaviness that reluctance and I can't tell you because how many times when I do retreats or events,

people will tell me that I almost didn't come, but then I'm so glad that I came. So I just want to

highlight this is another quality of spiritual desolation. No shame in experiencing that and what

it very likely means most often does mean is that the enemy is trying to discourage us from

something that really will be helpful. I've come to see that pre-event desolation actually

has a good sign because it means that there's something fruitful that lies ahead.

We're returned to struggles in a spiritual life. Their nature and their remedies

was Father Timothy Gallagher. Descerning Hearts provides content dedicated to

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Take, Lord, and receive all my liberty, my memory, my understanding, and my entire will,

all that I have and call my own. You have given all to me. To you, Lord, I return it.

Everything is yours. Do with it what you will. Give me only your love and your grace. That is

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We now return to struggles in the spiritual life, their nature, and their remedies,

with Father Timothy Gallagher. I can give you a story upon story about ever since you

broke that open years ago from me and from many of our listeners. I have found that. That's where

you've been able to stop at right at that moment. And I'm so glad that you referred to the writing

of Saint Benedict. A lot of people might recall that, seeing Ignatius at that time at Montserrat.

And that was a very, you can see how that influenced him and his, his love for scripture and his

time to take in prayer and the rhythm of the day. And that spiritual truth and Benedictines

will have heard in that naming of slows, the noon day devil, they will describe it as a monk

who is carefully writing out, scripting out the liturgy of the hours. And about midday he looks

out the window and then stops the good work that he's doing and doesn't attend to his prayers.

And he just starts gazing out that window. And it just kind of, you're drawn to something else

that takes you away from that relationship and God's greater glory. And boy, don't we all experience

that Father Gallagher? No shame. No surprise. Be aware, identify and reject. Sure. It's just one more

of the forms of spiritual desolation that we may have to deal with in this spiritual life. And

probably all of us can recognize this somewhere in our past experience. What is important is not

to believe the lie that arises from the enemy when we don't have that kind of energy. And the

urging will be to make changes. Yeah, maybe I won't go to the retreat or I can let the prayer go

to the later. I can speak with that confessor and other time and so on. You know, it's in time

of desolation never make a change. You know, I said earlier that those eight words would get us

safely through almost any darkness we would ever experience the spiritual life. And I think we

can see why as we're going through this. Because that's what the enemy will try to get us to do in

time of spiritual desolation. Bob, you've given what you can to the group, time to let it go,

and we could go on with the examples. And no, that's a time to stay faithful, not to make any changes

and to go forward in that. And what will happen is that the that slothful

feeling and so forth, it's not going to last. The desolation will end and we'll be coming back

to this as we go forward. Now what's key to, isn't it, that it was affecting everything.

It was affecting at least in his prayer life and in his practices that a prayer that were

drawing him closer to God. There may be cases, wouldn't you say, Father Gallagher, where

you might be involved in one particular practice or an event or something like that where

after conversation, discernment, you may have to pull out, but it doesn't necessarily affect

everything else in your relationship and your fervor with the Lord. Is that an important distinction?

Sure, yeah, that's a very different situation. And that's the other kind of discernment

that Ignatius speaks about, discerning God's will and choices that we face. So maybe things have

changed. Bob has been given new responsibilities at work. Some of the children need increased attention,

whatever kind of scenario you want to paint there. And it may be that there'll be signs in there

that God is asking him to relinquish the leadership, but that'll be a very different thing from

this slothful feeling that just comes out of spiritual desolation and lack of energy.

It's not a physical thing at all. You know, it's not that he doesn't have the energy for these

things. It's just a discouraging tactic of the enemy, which we need to name and reject.

And he's real blessed to have the spouse who's kind of watching on the side and seeing this,

but there are those who are listening who will have that friend that may be able to point that

out. A parent might be able to see that in the life of one of their kids or the kids might see

that in the life of one of their parents. I know that I will share. There was a time when I,

as an adult, was starting to slip and some of the things I was doing and falling into something

quite like this. And it was actually one of my kids that said, hey, I've noticed that we're not

doing this. We're in, you're not doing this like you used to mom. What's going on? So it's a real

blessing to be able to take heed and listen to those who know you well. Yes, that's the other

piece. You know, don't make changes in desolation and don't be alone. And those two things together

will get us safely through any darkness we may ever experience in the spiritual life.

One of the early biographies of St. Francis of Assisi, it's a kind of metaphor

of Francis' spiritual journey. And he's reached the point now where he sets out in quest

of countering lady poverty. And in the image here, she resides at the top of a high mountain

at some distance. And Francis sets out along the road to reach the mountain in climate and to

encounter lady poverty, which is an image of founding the Franciscan Order. And as he's walking

along at a certain point along the side of the road, two elderly men are sitting. And they call

out to him as he's on his journey, where are you going? And he explains that he is setting off

to climb the mountain and to reach lady poverty. And they say to him, don't go alone.

And in the metaphor, that's the origin of the Franciscan Order. That's the shift from

Francis personally living something to being accompanied by others who will share the life.

You know, that he's called to. And that principle works in everything in the spiritual life.

And I'd say it's even more important today than in past decades because

the culture not only does not support our faith as much as it did, but it even attacks it

often enough. And so to have that network by which we are accompanied as we live the spiritual life,

I think is getting more and more important. It's always helpful, maybe in a special way today.

And it's so grounded in scripture. I mean, isn't that the way the Lord sent us out two by two?

He knew that we would need someone, somebody to be able to at least walk with, if not a greater crown.

Well, that's why Jesus founded a church. And the basic point of that is that we're not meant to be

alone in the spiritual life, but part of an ecclesia, an assembly, where we worked out,

lived together with others, and shared the spiritual life that we're called to live.

Thank you so much, Father Caligar. Very welcome. Thank you, Chris.

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life, their nature and their remedies, with Father Timothy Gallagher.