Solutions to Corporatist Fascism and False Political Constructs — with Rodney Atkinson | UK Column Interviews

Hello, everyone. This is Diane Rasmussen with UK Column. I'm really happy to be here today

with Rodney Atkinson, who's the founder of the Free Nations website and several books

and several articles, and I'm really looking forward to a very interesting conversation

with him today about the current state of affairs both domestically and internationally,

and I expect that we'll be covering a range of issues today. So I'm really looking

forward to this. So Rodney, welcome to UK Column. Once again, I know you've been working

with Brian McGarris for many years, and I'm really happy to be here today since I'm

up here with you in the northeast of England to talk with you in person about all these issues.

Good. I'm, you're very welcome. I'm pleased to be able to contribute something to the UK

Column. You've done magnificent work over the years.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

So I guess, you know, there's so many things that we could be discussing. I know when

I got in touch with you about this interview, the kind of the idea of corporate fascism

is something that has pervaded your work for many years, of course. And as I said, especially

with respect to domestic policies, international wars, the war in Ukraine, the side that our

country is on currently in that particular situation. I guess I'd just like to open

up to you for now to, as a starting point, and I'm happy to follow you would like to go.

But if you maybe would like to say, you know, where are we currently with these issues

that you've been working on for decades? And how did we get here?

It's usually the case in politics that the sooner you warn about something happening,

the longer it takes for anything to actually be understood. But now that all the dangers

of corporatist fascism that I've been warning about for 40 to 45 years are becoming increasingly

obvious to the average voter. Then sometimes people don't listen to you anymore just at the

very time when your predictions come true. I mean, basically, I've been warning about

corporatism in the United Kingdom and corporatist fascism in Europe since 1981. But in particularly

over the last 30 years, when I was campaigning for the UK to leave the European Union, the

European Union is the sort of classic corporatist bureaucratic authoritarian centralized system,

which is inimical to all democracy and the nation-state, which support democracy and

loyalty to democratic institutions. So it all starts with the right moving left and the

left moving right in creating this corporatist structure, which is an unholy alliance between

the left-wing state authoritarian people on the one hand and the right-wing big corporation

status on the other. It is a potent mixture and it is the underlying system of fascist and

Nazi systems, particularly in Europe. And we see how this has resulted as big corporations

drive the economic side and socialists and quasi-communists, but not real communists of course,

because real communists understand what fascism is and they tend to fight it. That's why you have

this split on the left of the Labour Party. It is a very dangerous combination and just as the

domestic populations are attacked, marginalised and their democratic systems undermined by

corporatism at home. So that corporatism extends itself through big corporations and banks into

aggression abroad. And in particular the advance of NATO and the European Union towards the

former Soviet bloc and the Russian border over the last 30 years. So you see a direct connection

between domestic and international affairs, between domestic suppression of dissent in so-called

democratic countries on the one hand and the expansion of corporate internationalism and globalism

on the other. So when looking at your most recent book, you talked about sort of this notion

sort of supporting the formation of the EU and taking away democracy from the countries that were

formally, such as sovereign nations in relation to Europe. And so I thought that was a very

interesting thing because as we saw here with the votes for the leave, remain sort of that debate

that went on with UKIP obviously that has been going on for several years. And it was very

interesting to me. It seemed as though there were a lot of people who just assume that being part

of the EU is automatically a good thing without actually questioning. This is just my own perspective

on what the individual countries can do to rule themselves and how those democracies have

essentially been stripped now of that autonomy. Yes, well the interesting thing is here once again

we see direct power rails domestically and internationally. Domestically we were propagandized

into believing that the European Union was just an as a free association of sovereign democratic

nations whereas in fact it was a completely different corporate stage structure above

and having power over those democratic nations. Similarly when that system with the help of

NATO moved eastwards, the countries that had been freed from the Soviet yoke

were then for a short time genuinely sovereign democratic. But it didn't take long for the

European Union with its constitutional armory to come in and take them over.

And this combination of NATO and the European Union working hand in hand as it moved eastwards

is the very thing of course which frightened the Russians and gave great sucker to the fascists in

Ukraine that they could attack and defeat Russians in Ukraine which they proceeded to do.

Yes. With thousands of Russians in eastern Ukraine being slaughtered mainly by

openly Nazi brigades like Asof, Ida, C14, the right sector all of whom have been accepted by the

Kiev political class and to a large extent to reward for their so-called patriotism.

But as I say it all starts really domestically in the west with the sacrifice of democracy

and the establishment of elitists. I use the word elitist to describe people who are self-appointed

elites. They are what happens when democracy loses its power to represent people

and people have no choice in their voting because as the right moves left and the left moves right

you get in a morph as a mass of political parties all representing roughly the same thing.

Yes.

So although we have frequent elections and the more elections they put out the more feeble they are

because you have an election but you don't have a choice.

That's true. That is true. And you know we call that the uniparty, you could call them.

That's right. That's right. Exactly. The uniparty has become the word quite rightly to use to

describe it all. And it's an extremely dangerous because the people use the power of their voter

elections and through corporate power backed by the state they lose their money vote in the

marketplace as well because they no longer can choose powerfully what to do and what not to do

with their money, what to buy, what not to buy because the corporate powers who run the markets

so-called markets don't give them the choice anymore. So we get a parallel but system

of alienation in the political world and in the economic world.

Right. Right. And so if we trace this back into where this all started and it seems like you've

said in a lot of your writing this goes back into the 1930s and 1940s from sort of that sort of

fascist background. And I'd like to trace that back a little bit because it's I think it's

important for people to see where this came from and how that's led to where we are now.

So if you can go into that history a little bit as well to see how we got here.

Well it's interesting if you look at the foundation of the European Union itself.

Many of those people who founded the European Union and do took powerful positions in it

based their plans almost exactly on the Nazis 1943 plans for what was called under Hitler,

the European Economic Community, the Europesia for Schwarzke-Meyn Schaft.

And almost point-for-point as we pointed out in our book, Treeson at Maastricht in 1994,

the structures were the same. So naturally with the similar structures and similar people deciding

how the EU should be founded and developed because originally it was just the economic community.

But from the very beginning the structure was so clear as to suggest, well more than suggest,

to actually put in place a whole new corporate country structure, a country called Europe,

a state called Europe, a super state called Europe.

And the grounds for claiming that there's a strong fascist and Nazi element in the European Union

are to look at the actual individuals involved when it was founded both in the nation states who

founded it and in the EU itself. People like Walter Halstein, Joseph Globke, Walter Funk,

von Falkenstein was the head of the European Department and the Hitler's Foreign Office

and he had the same position and Adelaide's Foreign Office after the war as well.

People like Theodore Häus, who became president of Germany, all they all had

rather as a quite clear and objectionable Nazi roots.

In the case of Halstein he was an academic close to the Nazi party,

he was involved in negotiating the fascist post-war settlement with Italy

which of course never came to fruition but it did for Halstein because he became the first president

of the European Union. I did a couple of videos on the Free Nations website, one called The Nazis

and Fascists who founded the European Union which was based on a speech I gave at the House of

Commons in one of the committee rooms in 2008. Then a subsequent video called Brexit or Die

where I went into much more detail and I think if anyone who looks at those videos and notes

that the exact histories of what was said in the 1930s and 40s and what was said in the 1980s and

1990s in Europe will have remarkable similarities as you would expect from people who were

of a of a corporatist fascist disposition and had all that historical Nazi pedigree.

It's very difficult to get the rather ignorant British press and British journalists

and British politicians to even sit down and look at the evidence and the more horrific the

evidence is the less they want to sit down and watch it. Well of course the BBC working directly

with the government's working directly with all of them they do have their place. I mean we've

all seen the recent activities of the BBC it is a classic corporatist organisation, state-sponsored

a particular political view, a private view promoted at state expense and the expense of the people

but they did the same thing in the 1930s when they kept Churchill, Churchill who was one warning

of the rise of Hitler and Nazism and the BBC kept him off the air for two and a half years

in the run up to the second world war. So they have a pedigree, we all know what they're about

and it is extremely dangerous and nothing significant and the great betrayers of the British

political classes to allow the continuation of the BBC at our expense.

So because there is the classic case of having

in theory a choice but in fact practically no choice at all. That's true, that's true.

And you know we see now in the current day with UK column we've been in existence for 20 years

this year but we're constantly fighting the censors and especially now in line with the YouTube

and social media channels constantly trying to silence us and take extraivity and

depended media in this day and age where we're fighting the regime with through the electronic

means that they are using. Yes, these state corporatist oligarchies

and there are of course both left and right just like fascism is.

They are present also in the structure of business that it's corporatists who are making

decisions in the pharmaceutical industry, in the media industry, in politics in general,

in environmental issues you see great big centralized corporate systems effectively running

governments are almost on their own. It's not just the government of the Western countries which

is oppressing their people. It's these combinations of corporate corporations who are beginning to

enter who have long ago entered the political sphere just like of course socialism has always

entered the democratic market sphere in order to take power. And in particular we see how

the American corporations under Biden and to a certain extent even under Trump who is supposed

to represent the opposite that they exercise political power extremely dangerous.

We saw that of course under the Nazis where big corporations like Krupp and Tussen

and in particular IG Farben. IG Farben used to spy all over the world for the Nazi government

and this combination is toxic and democracies can't withstand it unless their people rise up.

They are at least with the internet people have an opportunity to rise up and see alternatives.

But it's a very dangerous situation.

And I would say you know watching what's happened in America and here as well just for the past

five, six years since the 2020 tyranny as I'll call it. If we look at Trump leading what was

essentially a military operation with operation warp speed pushing in the vaccines working with

AstraZeneca working with Johnson and Johnson working with Pfizer. That's right. And although that you

know that's I think is a good example in the modern day. It is indeed and of course Trump is

trying to roll back online now but I mean it just shows you how much the Trumpians in America

and the reform party followers in Britain have got to learn about the real reason for the crisis

unless they really understand the nature of corporatist, corporatist, leftism, socialist,

totalitarian corporatism. In other words fascism unless they really understand how it is developed

and what it is then they'll end up doing the same things. Right. They will end up compromising

with these very corporate structures who are their enemies. Right and it's very interesting to see

how they're all coordinated and behind and how the system works behind the scenes but to the

points where the public doesn't necessarily see it that way because the media is so good at

pushing the messages that the governments and the corporations what's put out. That's right. And one

of the I mean ways in which the system if you like that we're trying to describe works is

is redefining words or are they not questioning old concepts which are no longer relevant.

For instance when the government says public expenditure it's not public expenditure it's state

expenditure. That's true. State decides how much the state raises the money through power.

The state decides whether it's been successful or not. The public have nothing to do with it at all.

The only place where the public have their expenditure where they have power is in the private sector.

Where they can decide to spend or not spend to save or not save to invest or not to invest

and that has direct effect on the corporations and even on the governments often as well

where people can actually atomistically decide and do things which have an effect.

In the state sector which the government calls the public sector.

In the state sector they have no power at all.

One thing that's been of interest of me recently when I've watched the net zero agenda coming out

through the globalist organizations and I'd like your opinion on this as a political economist

yourself because I find it so interesting how they've taken money if you want to call it public

money which we know it's not taking our money and sort of channeling it through to fund the so-called

debt zero projects usually to nations outside of ours and when I look at it at a local level

in County Durham where I live they recently ended the net zero funding with the majority

reform council and saying well this is not a good use for money this is a scam we have other

priorities which I thought was an interesting example of when they try to do things well locally

that they're trying to do the best for their people but then we have Farage at the top because we've

got two-thirds of majority reform councillors in County Durham at the moment but then we've got

the Farage at the top who you know I'm sure you have plenty to say about Farage and what he's

going to do but it's unfortunate because I feel like I have local councillors in my own word

who are trying to do the best for us and I can't fault them and I've had this discussion with

Brian Garrish as well yeah I mean there are limited levers for local councillors there's no doubt

about it it's very difficult to fight a total ideological war against fascism from a local council

point of view the few decisions they can take as on for instance spending on net zero

are relatively small but they're instructive they do educate people they show that there is an

alternative and you can ask the questions like for instance why is it after when we had two years

of virtual industrial lockdown the world over carbon did not diminish the atmosphere that's right

and of course they started off this years ago talking about man-made global warming

then they couldn't really prove that so they changed it to climate change you can always tell

when people are on the defensive because they've changed the words to describe what they're talking

about but there's no doubt about it that long before the recent crisis which I would date

to Britain's joining the European Union when was it 1972 the process of the power of the state

increasing therefore the diminished role of individuals and small companies family businesses

local communities all the democratic systems to which on which the whole so-called democratic nation

is based were all being undermined by high taxation not just under socialist governments

but under so-called conservative governments as well I mean the trouble is with the British

Conservative Party it has a strong authoritarian streak it that's why uh Churchill was a conservative

and the event he then left the conservative join the liberals whom he saw as having because he

opposed the corner laws and then he left the liberals and joined the conservatives again because

presumably thought they were learning their lesson well people have been doing that leaving and

joining leaving and joining the Conservative Party for decades it's very difficult to see whether

they've ever learned their lesson or not even today well and it's interesting just in the past

couple of weeks we've seen people trying to leave or leaving the conservatives to join reform

but then when we look at these individuals like so highway for example where he's just as in line

with the the overall larger agenda as much as possible where he's trying to appear as this you know

rebel trying to do what's best but actually when you look at it he's not at all no I mean no

radical party which really is going to make a difference would have as a highway in it no no

and I noticed another recent defector from the Tories to reform

was someone who was fanatically making the case for the Chegos Island deal when he was with

the Conservative Party and then suddenly he's turned to be saying what a terrible deal it was well

you know the trouble is with that on the one hand he said good well they've learned their lesson

and the other hand how was it then he needed to learn that lesson in the first case

you think these people are rather unstable but on the other hand having met three party leaders

over the years I think it's one of the characteristics that when they people go to the top of politics

they are almost by definition unstable people maybe because they had to chop and change so much

to oil their way up the ladder of power could you talk a little bit about your experiences of meeting

them that would be very interesting well I met Mrs. Toucher a few times

my first policy paper in 1981 was called Institutional Distortions in the Economy

the contribution of Manitrism and I heard that when she read it she said I'm not sure who's a

Conservative and then many years later I met her again actually funny enough when she was young

her first job was with a chemical company called British Silent Night in Malingtree

and her first day she reported to my uncle who was working there as a scientist he was only

about a year older than her and in those days apparently Mrs. Toucher was very keen on the local

in-house trade union which she was a leader of and she didn't like people going straight to

complain to the management without going through her such an interesting background and then

many years later obviously I met her at a cocktail party introduced by a friend of mine Lord Harris

of High Cross and this was during the Yugoslav war and the British government had just given

the Croatian leader an award and I quoted from that man's book on Yugoslavia in which he said that

genocide was a natural phenomenon commanded by the Almighty

and she paused when I told her this and she said well that was a long time ago and I said no it wasn't

it was only about 10 to 12 years ago so we left in somewhat of a tense situation should we say

yeah so that was my and then later much later on when she was

too long after she'd retired I went to a birthday party for her held at the I.E.A and we had a

little bit of a chat then but basically of the three leaders she was the most normal

who were the other two Johnson and Farage of it

and tell us a little bit about meeting Johnson

well mainly it was mainly through correspondence when I told him about the reality of the European

treaties that we had signed this is when people didn't know whether they could trust Johnson

on Europe or not because he'd spent a lot of the time as a journalist in Brussels

and I told him that we had signed a document which gave everyone in Europe the right to vote in

our Westminster elections and he said oh no no no it's just local elections as if that wasn't bad

enough and I said no the wording is municipal elections and I said the meaning of municipal

in law is national not local he said oh I'm sure I better arrive and look it up anyway he did

a column and he had rang up the foreign office and said to a senior the senior responsible

civil servant I hear you have signed this European treaty which gives everyone the right to vote in

our general elections and my though don't be silly says and then he pursued it saying what I

told him to say that the municipal does not mean local in law and the civil servant said oh well

don't be stupid man he says wait a minute I'll go and get the dictionary just to get the

dictionary he says here we are here we are Johnson I'll tell you what it actually says

just municipal but pertaining to the national oh

interesting yeah I met him a couple of times subsequently but I wasn't impressed

no it doesn't sound like he should have been it so I mean he at least he did the right thing

there as a journalist and it didn't expose the reality of the dangerous treaties that we had signed

right right I didn't know about his background as a journalist oh yes he's on the telegraph for

years and the spectator so now we have to come on to Farage and your experience

I'd rather just not talk about it for right I mean that personally we didn't get on at all

politically we were more or less agreed but I think it's best just to not talk about him

how would you contrast him with what Ben Hibib is trying to do with advantage?

Ben Hibib is very good as well I'd about it he and Rupert Lowe I think are two of the best

potential leaders of what I would call you know the the insurgent movement

there's a pity that reform have so many defects you we say right not least not having those two

inside what do you see that Hibib and Lowe could offer the country between the two of them if

they were working together for example well they have they have genuine insight as to what the

problems are they're not prepared they're not shy of saying what needs to be done

and they have the personality to try and do it if they had the power

well as I think so many people in refer in in their form party especially those new comments

from the conservative party yeah would not have any of those attributes so what do you I know you've

had some experiences in the past of running for for elections and standing for elections do you

want to I would be interested to hear about your experiences coming in as sort of not a member of

the Uniparty what was that like when you attempted to run for office in the past?

Well I stood for James Goldsmiths referendum party

and when was that now I can't remember exactly 1998 was it the Europe you're I've got 99 I've got

1997 in Northwest Durham Northwest Durham I know that's right yes and I saved my deposit

which is not bad for first time party in a first time candidate James Goldsmith was very good

another person who you could have relied on to do the right thing if you'd have the power behind him

politically and then I then stood for UKIP in 1999 in the European elections

and we got eight and a half percent in the north east so those are my two electoral

alliances I know what I've spoken with Brian Garrish in the past about his attempts at standing

for elections he was it was difficult for him he's tried to stand as an independent

and he just could not get any airtime because he wasn't aligning correctly with the you know with

the party yeah and so he was you know only given a few seconds to to state his platform and it's

right was that your experience as well yes yes exactly that that's right yeah yeah yeah it's

unfortunate when we're not able to see if we're supposed to be able to help open elections but it

doesn't seem as though we do when we yes well it is a bit like the nation generally as we we have

been told for instance when we were part of the European Union we were an independent country

we're just part of this free association which we weren't and that we had our own parliament which

we didn't have which we made our own laws which we didn't do all these things we know were a lie

and ironically now that we have left the European Union in many ways even that is a bit of a lie

because we know so many commitments that we've made to to continue to pay large sums of money

for many years to come right and that having left the European Union we then involved ourselves

in the European Union's military through alliance with them to fight on the side of Ukraine

against Russia on the grounds that somehow the Europe that Russia's invasion was unprovoked

but nothing was more provoked than that thousands of Russians had lost their lives in eastern Ukraine

and we went along with the European Union's interpretation of the ideological and military position

which was absolute nonsense and we can see not just if in Europe with the way the

Germany's expanded eastwards politically through the European Union but economically through

German corporations and we saw the same thing now in Ukraine with American corporations buying

up whole areas of agricultural land and mineral resources now it is precisely this mixture of

stage power, military power and corporate takeover which is reminiscent of fascism

now a lot of it is probably totally alien my accusations would be alien to that many of those

people doing it because they have no historical concept of what happened before but really

what's just the same way that the European Union has reproduced so much of Nazi Europe

so in the war in Ukraine we have landed on the side of people who openly support Nazism

the As-Offs, the Idars, all these Nazi brigades we've even trained them I have a letter from one

of our defence ministers admitting that they trained troops that included As-Off militants

so we know what we're doing or we think maybe they think it's not important but anyone who knows

you Ukraine and As-Off and these others where they train in militaristic Nazi camps young people

just like the Hitler youth did in Germany and where you have throughout the country statues of

Ukrainian Nazi collaborators during the war and then the first of January every year

of our large celebrations of the birthday of Stepan Bandera who was the most notorious

of the Ukrainian Nazis during the war I mean these these openly fascist sympathies of the Ukrainian

state should were a warning before the war indeed many Western publications in America and

Europe did occasionally cover this very thing but then as soon as the war started they

covered it up and pretended never existed even though historical evidence is there they did they

did uncover it but they refused to put two and two together so how is it that we ended up

in this war fighting against one of the principle powers which settled the last war

without the Soviet Union without the Russians we would never have defeated the Nazis I'm pretty sure of that

so one of the things that you mentioned to me when we were discussing this interview was about

the UK being on the wrong side of the current yes Ukraine war if you could talk a little bit more

about that and how does that relate to what our relationship with Russia or maybe what it should be

or is yes you don't have to think that Russia is a free openly democratic country to nevertheless say

that there had a strong reason to fear what the West was doing as NATO advanced militarily towards

the East and as I say by taking over Eastern European countries constitutionally after the Soviet

Union had freed them the European Union was doing the same thing and that was a threat to Russia

there's no doubt about it Ukraine of course especially Eastern Ukraine it's been Russian for

longer than the entire existence of the United States I mean this is just elementary history

the the the Rus the origin of the Russians if you like genetically came from the Kiev area right

and prior to it being Russian it was the Belarus and Ukraine were part of the they weren't part of

a country called Ukraine right they were part of the Polish Lithuanian kingdom right so there's no

history there the only two times where Ukraine has risen as a state is in 1991 when Russia under

Yeltsin was a really powerless decadent economically disastrous level when they felt they were had to

sign up to the new order which included a new state called Ukraine that and the prior to that

of course at the Treaty of Brestlytovsk 1918 when the Russians effectively surrendered to the German

armies and the Germans established a Ukrainian state so the so the two times when there was any

semblance of Ukrainian state you can see that they were not very stable political times right

but I mean we can see how this war is affected international affairs it is caused great

tension between North and South Korea but between Taiwan and China between the Western Iran

driving Russia and China on one hand towards distributable countries like North Korea and Iran

when really they would not normally do so when what what really has China got in common with Russia

China is Southeast Asian Russia is European or mostly European where the power is

China is communist Russia is Christian and there's certainly not much in common between ideologically

between North Korea and Russia and Russia but they are being forced together now strategically

politically and militarily which is extremely dangerous for South Korea which is extremely dangerous

for America so you look around the world this one stupid incompetent Ukraine adventure of the

West has produced a very dangerous situation and every day produces more dangerous situations

would you have forecasted that at the start of it that it would that it would become the

serious around the world well I forecast some of it I knew that China would become more aggressive

towards Taiwan as a result of Ukraine that certainly happened

but then of course domestically Britain has put in billions into the into Ukraine

and sent troops far more troops than has been publicly admitted I'm sure yes

and the government is because of heightened tensions between Western East or rather between the

West and the global South and the East because most of the global South are not on the side of Britain

and Europe between America and Europe

therefore the dangers are getting worse every day and Trump at least has understood that he has

to settle this Ukraine war he sees exactly what has happened as it was so predictable

now his ideas may not be the best ideas but at least he's recognized the crisis in the danger

right the trouble is he's then simultaneously courted other potential wars I mean he's doing

his best to try and solve this in the Middle East but it's pretty it's a pretty crude way of

trying to do it and it's I'm not very optimistic in the Middle East he's courted more trouble in South

America yeah I mean I'm sympathetic towards his motives but worried about his means same in

Greenland I mean there was a perfectly reasonable Greenland Danish USA agreement signed in 1951

a treaty which gave the Americans so much right and faxess and use of Greenland for military purposes

why he could not have just used that at the very beginning instead of now falling back on it after

causing so many eruptions I don't know but it's all part of the general world wide instability

the one of the trigger points of which the main trigger point of which was the Ukraine war

right right so what are your thoughts on Trump's international policies because this is

something that has been covered extensively in UK column and recent times in particular his

alliance with Israel and Netanyahu and there's a lot of strong feelings and it's an incredibly

complex situation it's always something I'm trying to understand a little bit better

yes I think when it comes to Israel in the Middle East I'm not competent to comment

that's how I feel as well it's it's so complicated it's always something I'd be anywhere in the

world who is competent to comment I agree entirely I mean I think it's all going to be

subsumed into the general is Islamic versus the West conflict I think that's what's happening to

but apart from that comment I wouldn't comment I'm with you I do think we have to be aware of

what's happening to the West in terms of our civilization and working to protect it and that's

just I guess a bit of a personal view but I do see kind of the potential for the amount of

immigration that we're having come into this country in other Western countries and what that

means for the future of our cultures yeah I mean mass immigration is something which the

corporatist leftist establishments are brought upon themselves because this is one of the things

that is always united the left and the right or are the corporate right and the status left

the totalitarian left the left don't recognize nation states and therefore they don't

effectively don't recognize the democracy which grows out of nation states and the way they try

to attack the nation states nowadays is mass immigration so sure you're going to have your country

but we'll change the population by mass immigration right and on the right we have big corporations

multinational say yeah we agree with you on the left because we want these people as cheap labor

and so there's the unholy alliance has another unholy result right it's you know and I've

I've just been in recent times noticing if we look at the names of some of our political leaders

throughout the UK look at their names Hamza Yusuf I lived in Scotland for several years

if we look at Sudikhan if we look at the the recent it's been all over social media recently

the health minister in Wales is from Somalia yeah we look at these names of Yusuf Zunak you just

yeah I mean there's not out about the international rations that we've been talking about

in normal times would be second place to this domestic takeover by mass immigration

we don't know about it but we know who to blame for that we're a supine Tory government

of an enthusiastic liberal democrat party and labor party which in the words of Peter Mendelssohn

scoured the world to find new voters so it's no surprise and of course the idea that

that you can import large numbers of people of different cultural background languages and

above all religions religions whose holy books actually prescribe killing people of the other

religions of denigrating women right of not mixing or associating with other people of other

religions I mean these are it's not just Islam it's mainly Islam of course but I mean if you look

at the Jewish holy books there's some pretty nasty things there as well about other religions

right so I mean when when the government passed its hate laws in its religious hatred laws and so

on they seemed I understand they excluded religious books from that what we've got to do is go

back and include religious books you can't you can't have people on the one hand trying to make

peace and integrate internally if every if every week they go and listen to a religious book

read to them which tells them to do the opposite that's right that's right I'd be

interested to hear you talk a little bit about hate speech and free speech because I am you know

if we look at the idea of free speech meaning at an absolute level that no words are actually

harmful but then we have the well we've always had the laws to cover that I mean if you

wish to say extremely dangerous and insulting things calling on other people to kill other people

and calling on other people to express themselves in violent ways we've always had laws to cover

that we didn't need any hate speech laws to do that but we still have the threat now of police

knocking down people's doors because they wrote a post that was yes he full yes that's right yeah

thousands of arrests every year it's a despicable I'm afraid we've become a pretty despicable

country that's because everything has been thrown up in the air by this destruction of democracy

by this fudging of left and right is fudging of political choice it's all about the power of

the collective so that the left and the right and we've got to defeat them but the people who

are going to defeat them I don't know who reform was a great opportunity maybe it still is

but it's going to have to change a bit I've read in your background that you've worked as a

lecturer in Germany how was your experience of that compared to working in here in this country

did you find that you had academic freedom intellectual freedom there or oh yes there was there

was no problem but in the other hand I wasn't in I wasn't in politics I was in linguistics

oh okay okay so it wasn't a very controversial not that it's not no not quite so much

I mean I did a lot I think I hoped I did a lot anyway for the students it was at the University

of Miles in Germany on the confluence of the Rhine in the mine and I ran an English folk club

an English film club and I organized language courses here at Newcastle during the term holidays

so I have I can say that I have a pedigree of international understanding if you like promotion

of international understanding that I certainly would not be part of the agingoistic nationalism

indeed as my whole point of my website free nations is to promote the notion of nationism

not nationalism great and how do you define the difference yourself my nationalism is protective

doesn't believe in free trade usually has a strong socialist element in it

authoritarian centralized jingoistic none of those I would accept

I came to the recognition that the European Union was bad not because I wanted

Britain to be free and great again but because I wanted Britain to be democratic again

I wanted the other nation states to be democratic as well and it's only when a country has a

more or less homogeneous structure where there is a clear majority of people who share the same

values that you can even build a democracy on it in the first place and the more you undermine that

the more you undermine democracy which is of course there's exactly what these supernatural

globalists and fascists want to do which is too basically and the answer to that is

nationism which brings things back to the local to the community to the regional and to the nation

state that's that's absolutely true you know it isn't you're making me think back to when I first

applied to to move to this country over a decade ago and sort of on a point-based immigration

system where you had to say for example you got points towards your visa application if

English was your native language and that was you know that was 2014 I believe when I first

applied to come over here so there are you know sort of a shared set of of backgrounds that

you and I both have from our countries I personally would find it I found would find it very

difficult to live and I've been to Saudi Arabia I felt extremely uncomfortable there completely

out of my realm of understanding of the world and especially traveling alone as a woman it was

very uncomfortable for me so you know for them to come over here and and bring those values and

cultures which are theirs and they have their right to those yeah yeah I mean some few people

it when we had real and democratic nationhood really understood what it was and what the precursors

of a democratic system are and of understanding of social cohesion and it's only when you

you start losing it that people wake up to the fact that oh yes we used to do this and we can't

do it anymore or under why well it's it wasn't by accident too it was because certain people had

a certain set of values that were not ours and they were seeking power they were seeking power

games power for supernatural organizations over the rights of individual nation states and therefore

over the rights of the democratic expression of opinion by those states people so it is given what

the globalists and the corporatists and the socialists wanted it's not surprising what happened

when they got together right right and they seem to be very determined to destroy those

shared identities and cultures and backgrounds oh yes you can see they're beginning to say it

openly now what they did not say openly while they were doing it right right and as regards

the solutions to the problem well as I say in Britain there's a slight chance that reform

might be able to do something but I think it's going to have to learn more and it's going to have

to be careful who it lets in if it's seen just as a or a time and home for failed politicians

who went along with the disaster when they were in power then it's not going to work because

people are going to be they're going to be rumbled but political parties like reform

were like the AFD in Germany or the Le Pen Party in France that accused of being fascists and far

right and all the rest of it yes but the interesting thing is that reform more or less has understood

I think without expressing it too radically what I've said about Ukraine the AFD in Germany

or not Nazis otherwise they would be fighting on the side of Kiev they oppose the war

in the same in France that Marine Le Pen's party founded by her father was it

Jean-Marie Le Pen he he fought the Germans Nazis during the war although he said a few

unhelpful things after that but nevertheless these revolutionary parties within the Western

system like reform like AFD like like the front national no it's not called the front national

now it's called something else now isn't it? Oh yes yes yeah anyway or people like Maloney's party in

Italy who are not who are at least skeptical about the Ukraine war and people who are really

are Nazis there are some nasty Nazi movements in Germany for instance and where do they go do they

do they fight for the Russians? No they fight against the Russians in Ukraine

right that's right and there are Russian Nazis as well some pretty nasty gangs of Russian Nazis

and who do they fight do they fight on the side of Russia? No they fight on the side of Ukraine

so this is the true nature of the problem and it's exact opposite of course to what is said

by the media. So what are some people here to get quite upset understandably what are some

practical solutions that you can offer for somebody watching this and thinking what can I do?

What can we do as a country? What can I do individually?

It's a difficult question I know. Well we've got to get back to democratic nation states

we've got to stop mass immigration we've got to get rid of the the woke fascists if you like

yeah we've got to redefine words in politics so people really know what they mean like public and

state for instance or like fascists and democratic and who are the fascists who are the democrats

and to forget about left and right because as just as I've pointed out that the left and the

right are together in fascist systems so the left and the right also combine in anti-fascist systems.

It seems to me the left and the right have become rather false. Well they've for long been false

dichotomy. I wrote a book in 1988 called The Emancipated Society which I think is still relevant

today yes where I pointed out that left and right the horizontal axis is irrelevant what's

important is the vertical axis between libertarian and authoritarian and you get people on the left

going to the authoritarian people on the right go into the libertarian and well the whole thing

is thrown up in the air it's a bit of a mess that's why it needs redefining so we know which

side we're all on. And you know what it was interesting during the 2020 era when it was the people

who I would say would identify with the left were the ones trying to force the lockdowns the

mask mandates and the required vaccinations. The political tyranny in fascism is usually

led by the left. I mean Hitler joined the German Labour Party but Nito Mussolini in Italy

he came from the Italian Socialist Party and of course the leader of the British Union of

Fascists also were mostly at various times was both in the Labour and Conservative administrations

so I mean the evidence is there it's quite clear and if the insurgent parties have got to start

attacking the left as fascists not all of the left of course there is what I call the welfare

socialist who cares really about welfare. His aim is not exploiting the poor in order to build up

the power of the state it's to have a fair distribution of wealth between rich and poor. Now I

disagree with a lot of what they stand for but they have a laudable aim and laudable methods

but the increasingly the left has been dominated by the fascist left, by the state power left

that wants to exploit the poor to increase their power, not to emancipate the poor which is

what my book The Mancipated Society was all about. The state emancipates the poor,

gets them onto a level of emancipated choice where they can set about building their own lives

then that's good that's what the state should do and but limited not perpetually for how

signing checks on welfare of course that what does that do it makes the recipient weak and the state

strong right right and that is not the kind of left we want and it's interesting you see a lot of

the online rhetoric the left calling the right the fascists and Trump is a literal Nazi you know all

these ridiculous things we see it's exact opposite of the case but it's because the

the Trumpian revolution in America and their reform revolution here have not understood the basics

and they have not accused the left of open fascism as they should do right if they don't if they

don't call a spade a spade then they will be called fascists themselves and they will have no

defense because it's a simplistic historical reaction of left wing adolescence that they call

everyone a fascist who they disagree with that's right that's right but we now know both in theory

of course or as always but in practice every day and by observing international affairs that fascism

is both left and right and we need to attack it it seems to me you know just on a bit of a

slightly personal note I'm so curious to hear about your background and how you and your brother

Rowan reach the point where you are being so you know so well known in our society and to be

able to say these things that you say in that in my opinion your brother Rowan expresses through

comedy so well and that you both have been advocates for free speech and you know really questioning

the system for so long and coming from the rural northeast to where you have achieved all of

this knowledge with all these all these wonderful things you've written and all the work that you

have done over the years how how did you reach this point it's just it's to me it's such an amazing

story that you have well I suppose we both have interests formed by our parents my father

studied politics philosophy in economics at Oxford and he was a local counselor in concert

and we were usually talked politics around the dining room table people had dining rooms in those days

and I did my first degree in German and I did my dissertation on

Germany after the first world war compared to Germany after the second world war oh right

about right fascinating that helped a bit as well in my books it started me off should we say

on studying the right things and Rowan of course arrives at his libertarian attitude to free

speech through the restrictions on comedy right he's never been particularly political no no he's

arrived at it through personal experience in his own profession exactly right right and that you know

I think that's one of the things that we see in comedy especially now with all of these

clampdowns and free speech that you know part of the power of comedy is is calling out what

actually happens in reality but they can't do it in the same way anymore because they will

lose their their potential for a career it's right no it is a totalitarian pure persecutors

system and we've got to get rid of the laws which are prepared the way for it most of them

introduced by Tony Blair I mean Blair was a disaster for this country right even though he went to

the same school as me oh really fascinating so this has been a great discussion is is there

anything else that you would like to say to the audience that we haven't covered I know we've

covered quite a bit no I think that's I think that's more or less it

obviously the whole air in different areas which you can discuss at different times but I think

the important thing is to get this idea of corporatism and its evils over yes to get people

thinking in terms of why it is that left and right no longer mean anything I think that's

very important that the new alliances have got to become clearer the definitions of our life

have got to become clearer not elites elites not state public not public state you know all these

basic concepts have got to be understood and how they're manipulated by people in power to

mean the opposite of what they should mean yes yes so we talked quite a bit on UK column about

the inversion of language yeah and that's what's happening if we call Trump a fascist that's right

that's what they're doing is inverting and making us try to believe the opposite of what's actually

happening and it's so that language is so powerful that's right in that regard mind you

when when the anti-fascist left and right get together it is possible I mean they are forced together

by a corrupt system but they tend to produce because the situation is desperate they produce

vocal grandstanding figures people like Trump people like Faraj now they're very valuable

but the trouble is they can go off the rails they can think

that a system even though they know the system is corrupt and they assume that if the political

system produced them it must be important yeah you see what I mean yeah absolutely yeah and of

course it's not necessarily and they've got to be very careful about what they say and do

but they've got to be clear as to the real battles and who's on whose side

otherwise they'll end up on the wrong side again I mean we don't want Trump going around the war

the world fighting wars having condemned Biden for doing just that

right that's right right and we don't want Faraj apologizing

for the disastrous COVID is because he's taken on the Sahawi

yeah the vaccine minister that's right that's the trouble that's the trouble with political

leadership that people can get I mean it's understandable that even the normal times if you become

political leader people can think that ideas about first station they're really just one voter

like everyone else and the more they realize that the more they can understand the pressures

and the corruptions that have got to be put right if they think they're above it all themselves

then dangerous absolutely well thank you again Rodney this has been a great discussion

very informative thank you for it for your time and thank you for the contributions you've made

to UK column and your relationship with Brian Garrish over the years which I know he values

greatly as well so it's been wonderful to have his conversation with you and maybe we can do

this again sometime thank you very welcome thank you very much thank you everyone this has

been Diane Rasmussen at UK column talking with Rodney Atkinson up here in the northeast of England

thank you for your attention and for your support thank you very much thank you again Rodney