Staff Review With Todd Levin

Hey, welcome to a Thursday episode of Cone a Brian needs a friend.

Usually these are fan episodes, but we've been mixing it up a little bit recently.

I'll tell you why getting ready for the Oscars and I have my A plus elite writing staff downstairs

in the building, working hard on concepts, riddles, quizzes, recipes for the Oscars, and I am very

fortunate. I'll just come out and say it. I work with the best writers in the world and one of

them I want to come up and hang with them. We did this with Brian Kylie a couple of days ago,

and now we're going to do it with Mr. Todd Levin about his sharper writer as you will find. You

really are. That's really nice. You're you're crazily talented and I'm so glad that you're helping me

with the Oscars. And we've I think you joined me. Is it you said it was 2009 was when you came on

board 2009 just as you're wrapping up late night in New York. I was wrapping up late night and I was

headed to the to take over the tonight show for a 30 year run. And you yeah jobs for life. You said

I hired you and you said, you know, tonight show hosts last forever. Yeah. And you said count me in

and you started spending money like crazy. Oh, yeah. It was most of it was spent before even got

to California. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He showed up and the first day he got he said I'm buying a Bentley.

Yeah. And he got a license plate that said tonight show for life. Yeah. And I said I looked it up.

It was way too many characters. It was for a license plate. It wasn't even legal. It was actually

tonight show for life three because two other people had gotten the same value. Two other writers

from my tonight show. Yeah. So you were with me for the end of late night tonight show then the

TBS thing and now Oscars and yeah. So you will be my writer for life whether you want to be

or not. Um, so I'm just let's get into this a little bit because there are different types of

writers. There are the kinds that that chatter constantly. I'm sorry to say I was one of those.

What? Oh my god. Doing bits in the room and dancing around like a chip on the track. And then

Todd, you're that I call you. You're like a ninja and assassin. You you're quiet. You're taking

things in. And then you'll say something that's really hilarious. And you'll write something

that's really great. But there's not a lot of, you know, uh, babbling and hey, look at me,

which I really admire. It's not demonstrative because I believe in my work. Oh. Wow.

I am very much like a bad news magician. And I'm also a bad musician, but I'm a bad magician

trying to distract you. I'm like, whoa, look at this. We were. And then because I'm afraid

someone will really look and see if there's not a lot of protein here. I think it's also just

because I've never been uncomfortable with that part of like performing stuff. Yeah. Even when

I was doing stand-up, I was the guy who just hugged the microphone. I just held it dear. I mean,

it wasn't like a big act. I'm trying to leave with it. Yeah. Yeah. Todd, you've got to keep coming

here. Come back with the mic. Uh, well, tell me about your journey a little bit because, um,

this happened so often I work with these really talented people and I get to know them

when they're trenches together. And I think, hey, I don't really know your origin story. But when

did you know, oh, comedy is for me. I mean, I think I always knew it as a kid, but I didn't know,

I think you probably hear this a lot. And I think a lot of people who are in comedy say this, but

I didn't know it was a career. You know, I didn't grow up in that kind of environment. You know,

my parents were both state workers in Albany, New York. And I, so I loved comedies a kid in

my dad was really instrumental in that because my dad had, my parents had a terrible record collection.

They had very, they had like a couple John Denver's, a couple Barbara strizans. Right. But then my

dad also had David saying, what's wrong with that? Sounds great to me. Not much. I love your

parents. When can I come over? David settled out. But my dad had a Bob New Heart records as well.

And so he had, he was my, my introduction to comedy. So I was listening to his records all the

time. He had Cosby records too. I, you could say that like, but those were also like huge,

a huge influence on me. Yeah. And then my dad also had this rule like we had this really strict

bedtime. But if we had HBO when I was growing up. And if there was a funny movie on at like

nine o'clock, he would let me stay up to watch, watch it with him. So I'd watch a lot of comedies

with my dad. Everything you're saying resonates completely with me because my parents had nothing

to do with show business. I'm growing up just outside Boston. I, you know, show business is this

thing that exists on Jupiter. It's done by aliens. But my father was very interested in comedy.

He was a, you know, infectious disease scientist, doctor. And he, but he loved comedy. He loved

New Heart. We had those records. He also had a terrible record. I mean, like no records.

And, but he loved comedy. And when a movie like mad, mad, mad, mad, mad world would come on.

Once a year, we weren't allowed to watch TV at night. If it was a school night, if we'd school

the next day. But he would say, when this comedy came on, he would say we could all watch it.

And I mean, this was unheard of. But that was sacrosanct. If there was a really good classic comedy,

we could watch that. So, and I think New Heart, you know, what a great person to learn from because

the jokes and the concept, it's about jokes and concepts. He's like a madador. He didn't

move that much. It's, you know, it's all the power of the joke and stillness to it. And the

musical ear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I loved him. Yeah. My, my, my, so my dad turned me on to

Bonnie Python, to SNL, all those things. So I was really into it as a kid. And like, you know,

had no idea that it could be a thing you could do for a living. And then when I moved to New York,

which is just a place I knew that I wanted to be in New York eventually. I didn't know what I

wanted to do there. I just knew I needed to be in New York eventually. And then when I got there,

I just gravitated toward people who were doing improv and doing stand up. But I don't even know

how or why I befriended these people. But I started to kind of get in with that world. And people,

my friend, were just encouraging me to get out on stage and just do stuff. That's great. Yeah.

So in the beginning, I wasn't even my, the beginning of my stand up career was me reading bits.

It was very much like a new heart thing where I was just, I would prepare a written bit that

depended on the page because I was so scared. And I just was like, I need the words to be perfect.

So I would structure it like, well, I got these letters in the mail and I thought I'd share

them with you or these, I found these old diary entries. So something that was sort of, it had to

be read. And then as I continue to do it, I just got more comfortable being in front of people

and being spontaneous. And the pages started drifting away. But you have to find a special place to

do that because you can't get a club. There are comedy clubs where it's very confrontational and

you have to almost fight them to prove that you're funny, which is, you know, can breed a certain

kind of style. And then there are places you can go. There are more open to experimentation.

100%. And so where were you finding those places? So in New York, that was there was a place called

a Rafifi, which was in the back of a, I was like, they showed movies there. And there's also like

burlesque nights. It was a really weird place. There was a bar in the front and a little theater

in the back. And there was a big kind of thriving alternative scene there. So I would do shows there,

the UCB places like that. There's a place called Luna Lounge that had a very famous alternative

show on Monday nights, Marin kind of ruled the roost there. And he was, he was at an older

generally kind of a generation of comics before me. Yeah. Yeah. So there are all these little rooms

you can do that. And then once you got comfortable, there still wasn't expectation that you do clubs.

I never really wanted to do clubs. But if you're doing, if you're trying to get into a festival or

get on TV, then you kind of have to be in clubs. And you have, and it is, it's different. It's like,

I have to make you like me. Yeah. Whereas in the alternative rooms, you're kind of like, well,

this will make you like I, the words I'm saying, well, hopefully make you like me. But like,

you have to be this person that's approachable. And it can be combative. But it's just a,

it's more of like a struggle. Like I have to make these idiots like me.

You just mud bring me. You morons. How are you morons tonight? You working class.

Scum. Hey, why the crowd wasn't that good tonight? Yeah, they were. They were really good

until you screamed in your whole suit. Yeah. You dropped your horn rim glasses at one point.

Waved a newspaper at them. Don't you eat it's breed.

Yeah, everyone has to find their own way. And you do that. And then what did you do TV jobs

before you came to me? This is my first TV job. So I had been doing pretty well as a stand-up.

And I'd gotten like a TV gig just performing. And I got an agent through that. But as soon as I

got an agent, I said, I want to write. Like that's what I want to do. You know, I like stand-up,

but I love writing. And this late night was my first TV job. And I almost didn't take it because

I thought, well, shouldn't I have a job on a worst show first? Like I had that. That's my own like,

you know, insecurity and growing up. And it was kind of like working middle-class family.

I was like, shouldn't I have started on something smaller? Because I was such a huge fan of the show

when I got hired. That I almost didn't take it. And then the week that that week, I got-

You got the job and you were like, hey, this show isn't that good. I think I'll be just fine.

Exactly. I don't know what the fuss is all about. I think Conan's on pills.

But yeah, so I had gotten a job on another TV show, VH1 TV show, that same week. And I

was, I almost took that job. And then I got a call from Sweeney about this show. Yeah.

And yeah, yeah, it was crazy. I love it if you had churned us down and worked on ridiculousness.

I know. Oh my God. I would be ricklapsed. I would be falling down. You'd be on my wildest

so rich. Get refused to come on this podcast now. I'm not talking about this channel.

Yeah. So talk to me about some of the bits that you like your experience working on the show.

What were some of the bits that you got on early days or just in general that you were really

proud of? Well, the first, I would say the first thing that I got on that, well, there are a

couple of things like there are a couple of things early on that I got like, but the first thing

that I got on that I was really proud of that really kind of broke through was Minty.

Yes. Oh my God. Minty the candy cane. And that was like, it just made people happy.

Oh, it was so cool. It made me happy. Great. And now refresh us to take us through the

Minty is a candy cane, but not any candy cane. Yeah. And he's played by McCann.

He's played by Brian McCann. I had basically, I had so much insurance for that bit though,

because I had Brian McCann who's an incredible performer. It's so funny playing this candy cane

that had fallen, the idea is that he had fallen on the ground briefly, briefly,

briefly. He had a few things stuck to him like a cigarette, but in a penny. And then the song was,

can you do the song? I'm trying to remember it. Oh, uh, uh,

and then come around. Minty, he's a candy cane who briefly fell on the ground and it was done

in that kind of old timey. Oh, minty fell on the ground. It was now he's covered in goo.

Now he's covered in goo. Oh, my God. And like, so, so McCann played him stack,

sang Brian stack also an amazing performer sang the song in Jimmy Vivino arranged it.

I can't sing. It's a great song. Yeah. And, um, of course, near and dear to my heart,

because my favorite era of singing is about 1914. Mega phone singing. Mega phone singing.

Yeah. Oh, and you know, uh, and it was great. He had just the perfect thing stuck to him.

And immediately people loved him. I loved him. I would always dance along with Minty.

I think Minty threw things at people. He threw he at a little basket of candy canes that he

passed out in the audience. And then he would whip them at me violently whip them at you.

And quick shout out to Brian McCann who I got to get in here at some point because he played.

He was such a that early early late night show. He was on and would just play these hilarious

characters that really helped us put our stamp on the kind of humor we like. And one of my favorites

was the man with bullet proof legs. Okay. And McCann would come out wearing super short shorts and

an incredibly, um, self-satisfied expression. And he would sing a song about how you can't hurt me

because I've got bullet proof legs. Yes, I've got bullet proof legs. You can't and then

blam. He'd get shot in the chest and collapse and die. And it was one of my favorite things because

he would he'd make his legs a long gate. Yes, he was like, I won't do this kind of beautiful swan walk.

Yes, he'd do this long-legged swan walk bragging about how swan walk bragging about how his legs were

bullet proof and then he'd get shot in the chest. And it just delighted me. And that's one of

maybe 10,000 things McCann did for us. What do you got there Eduardo? You want me to play it?

Yeah, if you want to see one of these minty sketches come to life go on the team co-co channel.

Look up minty the candy cane. Come on, let's hear him. Happy holidays everyone!

Good boys you chose. Yeah.

That's it. That's the moment or two that's it. You know, my favorite was minty's covered in goo.

That made me so happy.

Oh, another early thing I don't want to talk about this so much but was the

the human centipede menorah. Yes, which was that was like it might have been the same year.

And that human centipede had just come out which was one of the most horrifying and still remains

one of the most horrifying movies of all time. Sonia made me watch it on the tour bus.

Oh really? Yeah, I've never seen it and I won't watch it.

And it buffered a lot so it took us four hours to watch it. Yeah, it was really really not worth it.

It was a labor of love. And so yeah, so human centipede menorah.

So did this get you tossed out of any religious affiliations?

Well, the two things I remember about it were that like Pat and Oswald had tweeted something

about how horrifying it was and I was like if that got him, that's good.

If this horrified Pat and Oswald and got him not sleeping, then we know we're in the right

territory. And then the other thing was that we did it multiple years. And for some reason,

they always be, I guess because of the costumes fit, they always tried to hire back the same nine

guys. And except for like one of them, they all came back. It was like a, like they have stock

homes in trouble. Yeah. Yeah. The one that didn't come back, Timothy Shalamey.

He just, you know, and he won't acknowledge it anymore. No, no, he doesn't talk about it.

But it was crazy because those guys would, they all stayed in touch with each other.

It was like a shared trauma. And they, they all kept in touch. And I, if you want to see the

human centipede menorah, go on the team. And then don't look at the clip because it was horrifying.

It's so horrifying. And it's everything you think it is. Yes. Yes.

Uh, wow. So, but I like to do that was a thing that I think that I would go back to a lot,

which was take something monstrous and make people have to celebrate it. Yes.

Or take something sweet and make it monstrous, which like wiki bear was like a, a sweet thing.

That's that could I wrote that you love it when you see it in his voice is cute, but he's a monster.

Yeah. What was it? Was it, what was wiki bear was when I would take the, it was like the,

the bear that they were selling. Yeah. Yeah. It was a real bear that they were selling that you

could ask it questions. And yeah, it was based on a real thing. There was a bear that could

connect to the internet. It was like obsessed with murder. Wasn't it constantly the wiki bear

was always giving anecdotes, not anecdotes, but like stories. If you give you facts, you would ask

it very innocent questions. It would answer them and then pivot off the question to something

absolutely horrible. So give me an example. I know. So you would ask it like it was always,

I was like, I'm sorry, because it was a cute kids toy. So I was saying, hey, wiki bear, how were you?

You know, and then it would, well, I'm fine Conan. And then it would pivot off that really quick

peeking of blah blah blah. And gain made headgean made lampshades out of human skin. And I'd be like,

quick, bear, speaking of bright ideas. Yeah. Yeah. I was a clever fella. I think one of the reasons

you fit in so nicely is that I think my whole life so many bits were me trying to be the innocent

talk show host who was doing something sweet. Yes. It's almost like we didn't have rehearsal.

If you followed that logic, I'm going to try out this wiki bear. Hey, wiki bear. And then I'd

be trying to be like, okay, well, let's just move it along wiki bear. You know that the second

night of the mansion murders, they, you know, and I'm like, hey, hold on a second wiki bear. But

if you look through it, that's a theme that runs through the entire show for years and years and

years. Any version of it is trying to put on a nice show, trying to put on a nice show. And I

don't understand what's going on here. But that was a bit that you helped a lot actually,

because the original draft was like kind of it was, I don't think it was unfunny, but it wasn't

focused. And then when we were doing in rehearsal, because the bear would move, like they could

control its mouth. We could always move and stack was in the voiceover booth. And you guys just

started talking about the mansion family. It just became a funny thing at rehearsal. And then

stack and I kind of locked into that. We're like, that's what the bit is. It's fun to be. Yeah,

you have to find it sometime. Yeah, it's it changed the whole thing. And it was so what surprised

you? You went from watching the show to then working on it. What are some of the things that

struck you as, oh, this is different or I mean, what were your impressions? Well, the the thing

that I'll tell you a thing that terrified me at first, but then became my favorite thing about

the show was that the writers have a lot of autonomy and that you're kind of expected to not just

write your bits, but to produce them. Yeah. And in a sense direct them as well. And you're working

with the editors and you're working with all the departments. Yeah. And in the beginning,

when you've if you've never done that before, it's so scary. Yeah, it is. Because you're like,

there's a thousand ways to mess this up. And you know, a couple ways to get it right. And then

well, that is something I learned from Lauren Michaels. When I went to work on Saturday Night Live

with Greg Daniels, um, it was, I mean, it stunned us. I mean, I was, I don't know, 23 maybe or

24 and suddenly, yeah, it would have been 24, I think, but, um, you know, we pitched a sketch.

They said, you know, I did well at read through. And the next thing you know, you're talking to set

design, wardrobe people. You're telling them, you know, Lauren would say to me, what kind of

restaurant is this? And I'd be like, I don't know. I just get pizza at the corner,

around the corner. I get a slice. Are we at or so? Are we at a lane? Oh, my God. Are we downtown?

At Le Bon, oh, so I'm like, I don't know. I don't go to three restaurants. I don't go to

restaurants. I've never been to a restaurant. I have two pairs of jeans. And in 1973,

plain with valiant, don't ever turn me that again. Um, but, uh, yeah. And so Lauren threw us into

the deep end of the pool. And at first, it felt like insanity. And then I realized no one's

going to care more than the people who thought of it. Yeah. It's a great idea. And, um, so you should

be the one that's anal and like, you know, exacting about what it has to be because it's your vision.

Yes. And so, uh, and then you, you just, I think it leads to so many things. I mean, I think

you have a really good director's eye. So many of the writers do you develop that really quickly

because you know what you want. Yeah. That's very true. Sometimes even when you didn't think you

were that kind of person, you find out really quickly if you have to produce the sketches.

I totally agree. And the, the, the downside of it is that you also waste so many resources.

Like, there's so many times because you're in control, but there's no one to say, are you sure you

need all that? Absolutely. Why is Minty made out of silver? Because that's the way I thought of

it. Exactly. Do it for me. Do it. 800,000. Yeah. No, it would be a lot of times. Like, there was

the thing that Dan Cronin and I worked on that was so so needlessly ambitious. It was just a

parody of a commercial. Like, uh, what was it? It was like, uh, uh, uh, not a poio, uh,

Del Taco. That's what it was. It was the idea that it was a Del Taco delivery system so that

it was, it was so stupid on its face. It was a special device on your toilet that when you flushed

it, it could recognize when your body had room for another burrito.

Yeah. I knew the toilet was going to come in. And then it would immediately provide you with

that burrito. Yeah. Once you had cleared enough room out of your body for a new burrito. Yes.

And we, and it, and it, trust me, this is something Del Taco was thinking about.

I think it was off some story about how Nike or Reebok had developed these sneakers that you

could press a button and it would get dominoes for you. It was like connected to dominoes.

Yeah. Yeah. So this was like Del Taco's version of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was so,

and it, it's so, it's so stupid on its face and it became so ambitious where there's this,

it gets so in sync with your body's needs that it, it opens up like a third eye and takes you to

this like place of Nirvana where it's like everything's perfectly in sync. It was so expensive. But

that's what Jim Downey was really good at this. He's, he loved the comedy of take something very

simple and then make it needlessly complicated. Yes. But that in itself is funny. Yeah. So a long

commercial about change bank where Jim Downey's explaining to you that if you give us five dollars

will give you, you know, this is this many quarters, this many singles and or will also give you

this many nickels, this many quarter and over explaining it and I think there's something to an

idea that's stupid that then probably uses animation, computer graphics to explain how it works,

green screens of like once the, this area has been voided, then this area is created and this

area of your brain and you're like, this is such a stupid idea. I cannot believe that you would go

to this much trouble and that's where the funny stuff comes from. I think a lot of times I think

the show kind of for me at least taught me some of that too because so, so much of what I felt like

I was trying to do as a writer was to break you because I, yeah, yeah. I knew because you've seen

so much. Yeah. Yeah. You just have seen so much and that there's always that there's that kind of

line between, okay, that'll work for the show and I want to see that on the show. Yeah. You know,

yeah. And I think we're always trying and I, and I knew you're rooting against us.

And you know what? I'm already against you right now. Yeah. This is what I wanted to say

something. Yeah. You're having such a respectful conversation with Todd and it's very confusing to

me. When he was being nice at the beginning, I thought it was an ambush. I know. Oh, it is.

This is an IRS, I know. Has you ever made fun of you? For like a piece not working out?

Can you Eduardo? Can you kill her Mike? No, no. Uh, that is, I mean, I would have this,

there was this relationship with the writers where if something was really tanking, you could see

see me licking my lips, like, this is gonna be delicious.

And I remembered, I think we were doing shows at Comic Con

and one of the writers had come up with,

it's R2-D2, but he's gone Hollywood and he's like,

hey, make sure you get me a good table at that,

you know, and he had like a cigar.

And, you know, yeah, and where's my limo?

Yeah, and it was just, wasn't working

and felt like kind of an old take.

And I, people said they saw me licking my lips

and rubbing my hands together.

I was so like, oh, we've got to have more R2-D2 gone Hollywood.

And yes, you would sometimes interact

with the thing more than needed.

Yes, to tell us more R2-D2 who's gone Hollywood.

And whoever wrote it was like, okay, fuck you, Connor.

But no one is more delighted by left brain crazy ideas

that tickle me, like, those things,

that's a religious experience.

You've written much more than your share of those

and, you know, let's hope we can do it at the Oscars.

Yeah, I like, it's gonna be so much fun.

But yes, I will ridicule you in an hour

when I come back down.

I will mock you.

You flattened everything.

Yeah, there is no past.

There's only the present.

Time is a loop.

But cannot thank you enough, honored to work with you

and get back to work.

No, thank you so much for having me.

Conan O'Brien needs a fan

with Conan O'Brien, Sonom of Sessian, and Matt Gourley.

Produced by me, Matt Gourley.

Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liyah.

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Take it away, Jimmy.

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