States fighting back against Washington

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Helping to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, this is the

Constitution Study on the America Out Loud Network with your host Paul Engel.

Washington, D.C. is forgotten that they were created by the states, not the other

around. Then again, the states have forgotten this as well. There are some

examples of states learning that the federal government was created to serve

them, not the other way around. Hello there, everyday Americans, Paul Engel here

with the Constitution Study, where we read and study the Constitution.

Teachers in general should be free. Glad you could join me today. I've got a

pretty good episode. At least I think so. I hope you'll think so as well.

Because we're talking about not just states rights, but states power, states

role in this Republic of Republics. First of all, I love it. Tennessee, the

volunteer states, volunteers are leading the way and I have an excellent

interview with one of our state representatives where we're going to give you

some examples. But as I said, we're starting in Tennessee and our state

legislator, our General Assembly has passed legislation that's on the way to the

governor's desk that deals with renters rights. Let me stay with me for a

second. Because again, when you rent properties, it's kind of weird dichotomy,

right? Because you're not the property owner, but because you rent, you have a

lot of property rights in that property. Well, this bill, which again is pass

the legislature's on the way to the governor's desk, it's called SB 0350, would

prohibit landlords from restricting tenants from lawfully possessing and

carrying firearms and ammunition inside their homes or apartments. These

protections would be extended to parked vehicles in a tenant designated space.

So the thing with this way, right? You find you're looking for a place, you

want to rent from whatever reason, and you find a home on apartment or a house,

and then you find, oh, but you can't you can't exercise your second amendment

right in your own home because the property owner says so. Well, this law simply

says, no, you cannot prohibit someone from lawfully possess keeping and

bearing arms on property they rent. Now, it's funny, I'm preparing for to give

a keynote at the, I think it's a late county chapter of the Constitution party

in a few weeks. And I was talking about the fact that they're the gun shine

state. But let's see, I love Tennessee and I love their gun lots because it

recognizes that as a renter, you have certain rights. And well, those

rights really need to be protected. You know, the one, the, the couple things

about the Tennessee law that I find problematic involving guns. For the

one hand, the Constitution claims that the, that the right to keep them

bear arms in Tennessee can be regulated for public safety, indirect

context, dediction to the Constitution of the United States, which has

supremacy, but that's one issue. They kind of have this weird, it's not really

constitutional carry, but it's, it's a permitless carry, which is kind of this,

this odd situation. And I really hate the fact that in Tennessee,

quote unquote, gun free zones, you know, if you put up a sign, this has no

guns, passing that signs of crime, not simply trespass, it's its own separate

crime. And I think that's, that's a bit abusive, right? Because if you,

if you're not paying attention and you walk past it, you know, or if you go

by and nobody knows, you know, I, it's, I understand a person's right to

control their own property. And I don't have a problem with that. I just

think the, the punishment's a little, a little harsh, but here we have

Tennessee. Again, I don't know if the governor plans to sign this or not,

I haven't read anything about it. I just saw this article and thought, well,

that's kind of cool, you know, I, when my wife and I were first married,

we rented property. And we never had issues like this, but I could see where

that would happen. So again, I looked at this, I thought this was pretty good.

These are the states protecting their citizens. And at least paying some

attention to the impact illegal immigration has on the state, like this,

this other bill, which the Tennessee lawmakers, I did, they're going to

delay action. They've, they've kind of put a pause on this. They, the,

the general assembly has deferred, working on a bill that would require

local law enforcement to report encounters with illegal aliens and local

governments to track the cost of public services used by those illegal

aliens. So again, I find this interesting because there's a cost,

there's an impact. Now, there's a lot of politics behind this as well,

right? Because, you know, what are they trying to do? Well, again,

this appears to be attempts to align Tennessee's immigration laws with the,

the Trump administration's immigration policies. Okay. But I look at this

as, to me, it's interesting because again, I live in a county. My town is

unincorporated. So I don't have a city government, but I do have a county

government. And we pay for schools and that we, we, there are a lot of public

services that a lot of people are saying, well, they're being used by illegal

immigrants. I was as a, as a citizen of this county, I would be interested

in, in, well, what are they costing us? You know, because again, I hear both

sides say a lot of things. Oh, no, they pay more taxes than they cost. Oh,

no, they cost more than they pay in taxes. And I, I see relatively little

evidence for either side. There was one study done that looked at immigration

as a whole, not just illegal immigrants, and said the first generation of

immigrants tend to be a net cost to the, to, to their community. It is

subsequent generations that tend to be net increases, net depositives,

net providers to their community. But that was immigration as a whole.

This is looking at illegal immigration. And what are the costs? Again,

here, in the local governments and the states and counties, or I said,

citizen counties, and that course, that's going to be rolled up to the state

level, what is the cost of this illegal immigration? And can we get real

numbers behind it? Which to me, that's a good thing. That's, that's

information, and that's data, and that is something I think we can use. And

again, not just for our own benefit, but in the question of, okay,

federal government, if you've passed this law, and you're not going to enforce

this law, this is the actual cost that puts on us when you do so. There's

another bill that passed our house. I guess it's still waiting for the

Senate. And it deals with tracking the number of illegal aliens in school.

This to me is interesting for a couple of reasons. One is, you know,

okay, there is a cost to teaching children. There's a cost to having a child

in public school. And in fact, that is a debate within my county, the

county I live in, because some of the developments that are coming in,

the taxes raised from these houses doesn't cover the cost of a single

child, meaning if the, in a development, there's an average of just one

child per, per home, then we're paying more in education, though we're

collecting in taxes. Of course, it's something we, where else we're looking

at. But there's another point to this as well. And that has to do with a

bill that was considered last year that pretty much died on the

vine. And it was the idea of Tennessee no longer accepting federal

education dollars. I tried, I wanted to testify in front of the committee. I

tried to get in front of the committee and I didn't get a chance, because I

wanted to point out two things. One is, well, you know, you're

talking, you're looking at the financial interests. What about the legal

interests? How are the fact that the federal government, the federal

Department of Education doesn't legally exist, because it was created by an

unconstitutional act, which, well, Alexander Hamilton and the Supreme Court

have all said that is void. But this has to do with counting how many

of the children in our public schools are immigrants. Now, this would be a

notamized data. I mean, this is not data that could be used for immigration

enforcement, but it would be information that our school boards and districts

could use in understanding where the costs of where the children are coming

from and therefore the cost associated with them. And to me, that would be

interesting information. They actually passed a second bill as well that

would make it a class, a misdemeanor to intentionally fail or refuse to leave

the United States when subject to a final order of removal. This is a state

crime. Right? So if you are, if this law again passes and gets signed,

um, if you are in this data, Tennessee, and you have a final order of removal,

meaning you have gone through all the due process, you've had your day in court,

you've been able to challenge it. And now you have an order of removal

and you refuse. You don't leave, you fail to leave on your right date,

or you don't leave, it actually would be a crime in Tennessee to remain

in the state. In the, because it's part of the United States,

when you have a final order of removal. So again, you've got to process. I know

people are going, oh my god, Paul, but, but immigration is a federal power.

No, it's not. Again, look at the constitution of the United States.

The power to control immigration is not delegated to the United States.

Congress can set standardized rules for naturalization, the process of becoming a citizen,

but not for immigration, which means it's a state issue to begin with.

Furthermore, it's, even though you may have a federal order of deportation, a federal

order of removal, to remain in the state still violates the rights of the states of state,

it can still be a state crime for what you're doing. So again, these are a couple of,

to me, interesting pieces of legislation, where the volunteer state is helping to lead

in the power of the states and the exercise of the power. And again, we're going to get a little bit

more into the protecting us from an overarching and over, an overreaching federal government.

Now, I got these are three Tennessee laws that are in different stages of the legislation,

right? Some are still pending. One has been passed and gone to the governor,

but they are attempts within Tennessee to enforce our own laws, to recognize what's going on.

And I find this important because there's more legislation coming down the pike from

the Tennessee legislature that again are dealing with the overreach of federal government that

are recognizing the rules and laws. In fact, I stumbled across one of them. I was listening to

a podcast and I heard somebody talk about one of these. And I reached out to the Bill sponsor,

a state representative, Gino Bulsal, and had a chance to sit down and talk with him,

and I was able to record it so that we can all enjoy it. But I'm not quite there yet, but I want

you to consider this. As I said, the state created the federal government, not the other way around.

The federal government was created to serve the states, not the other way around. Yes, we have

the supremacy clause, but remember, only launching United States made pursuant of the Constitution

or the Supreme Law of the Land. We're saying the federal government, you have these limited

and commemorated powers. And sadly, our state seems to have forgotten this. And I know the feds

forgot it, but the states have forgotten it as well. And I think it's important that we

remind them of this. We have elections coming up for state offices as well as

House. And I don't remember if our senators are, you know, but there's a third of the US Senate

that's up for for a election. It's time to remind them, hey, well, wait, the state you created

the federal government, you said it's, it's limits, you said it's boundaries. And it's up to the

states to protect us from overreaching federal government. It's why I say the 16th and 17th

of the members of the Constitution destroyed the Republic. They destroyed federalism.

Because before the 16th amendment, the federal government didn't care how much you made or what

you spent it on. But with the implementation of a direct income tax, well, now the federal government

wants to know everything you make. And what you spend it on, they want to know everything about

your finance. They get very nosy when they, when they did that. And of course, I know most people

were coming up to April 15th and a few weeks, you know, most people hate the infernal revenue

service and the idea of taxes. But we gave it to them and we didn't realize the damage it was

doing to the Republic. The 17th amendment, the popular election of US senators, same thing.

So you used to be the US senators were pointed by the legislature of the states because the role of

the US Senate is to represent the states in federal lawmaking, meaning when legislation would come

along that infringed on states rights, it was expected that the Senate would push back because

those senators would be hearing from the legislatures saying, you want to keep your job,

this is what you have to do. And we lost it with the 17th amendment. It doesn't mean that

that the states gave up their power. It simply, they gave up the best way to keep the federal

government in check by restricting its money and by restricting its legislative power. And we're

do, we're suffering the consequences of those decisions, both by the way from 1913, very much

in the progressive era. But that doesn't mean the states have nothing they can do. There are

things they can do and they are pushing back. And after this break, I'm going to have a nice

little interview with the state representative, Juno Bolso. And we're going to talk about some of

the legislation that again, it's currently in Tennessee that will restore some of the powers

that a overreaching federal government has claimed to take from us. But here's the cool thing.

Yes, this may be Tennessee legislation, but it's something you may want to replicate in your own

state. So hang around for that interview before I go though, I want to remind you that this July,

is the semi-quence centennial of the Declaration of Independence and the 250th anniversary of that

wonderful document that declared 13 free and independent states. And I'm hoping you'll join

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It's going to be a blast. And I'm hoping you can join me. And if you do, please look me up,

find me, shake my hand, say hello. I'd love to meet you. I'd love to talk to you because I think,

to me, this is some of the best parts of these types of gatherings is meeting the people that I

merely talk to most of the times. So again, head to americaoutloud.news. Click on the America out loud

250 slash 10 celebration. Sign up before early bird pricing disappears and I'm looking forward to

meeting you and hopefully maybe some friends and family in Nashville this July. And hang around

because after this break, we'll be in the interview with Tennessee State Representative,

Genoal.

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Welcome back, everyday Americans. You've rejoined the Constitution study. As promised,

I have with me Tennessee State Representative, Geneal Bolso. He's not my representative,

but he has some legislation that I think is worth looking at. Geneal, welcome to the Constitution

study. Thank you, Paul. It's my pleasure to be with you. We talked a little bit as I was getting

set up about the the transplant and all that and what caught my attention was this one piece of

legislation, which to me was unique because I have an attorney who's a politician that actually

quotes the Constitution, which just warms my part. It does. So please tell us a little bit about

this legislation you've proposed. Sure, but the bill you're talking about is known in the

legislature as HB1473. We call it the Obergefell bill. And as you, your listeners know,

Obergefell versus Hodges was a case decided by the US Supreme Court back in 2015. It was a

5-4 decision written by Justice Kennedy. And somehow the majority looked at the 14th Amendment to

the US Constitution, and in particular to the due process of the equal protection clauses,

and said that the 14th Amendment guaranteed the ability of individuals of the same sex to marry,

which was a very interesting take on the 14th Amendment given that it was passed in 1868

at a time when all the states and all the voters who ratified it only had marriages between one

man and one woman and all of the states that ratified the amendment. So it was a bit of a stretch.

And we obviously as a state legislature do not have the ability to overturn a US Supreme Court

decision, but we can enforce it as narrowly as possible. And that's what this bill does. This bill

says explicitly that the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 14th Amendment and Obergefell

is not binding on private citizens in Tennessee or private businesses. And that's actually consistent

with the century of Supreme Court jurisprudence because it's clear when you look at the text

of the 14th Amendment that it applies to state actors not to private actors. It says no state

shall deprive anyone of life liberty or property without due process of law nor shall any state

deprive anyone of the equal protection of the laws. So what this bill does is it makes it clear

that although Obergefell binds the state and its political subdivisions, it does not bind private

citizens in Tennessee or anywhere else. And I loved it because it's what I refer to as an

in-tot moment. I heard this one on the podcast here. I am to you. I never thought of that.

Okay. It's obvious once you said it. Once I heard it, I'm like, it's obvious, but you're

I never thought of that, which is to me, it's the wonderful part of this. There's there's things

you can discover that are there that you never you never heard of. So where does the legislature

legislation sit right now? Let's see right now it has been passed on the House floor.

And obviously in Tennessee, as in most states, legislation has to pass both chambers of the

legislature before it can be signed by the governor into law. And so right now in the Senate

is waiting for action in the Senate Judiciary Committee, which I believe is set to hear

of the bill on Monday. So it's progressing, like all the legislators,

legislated, contrary to popular belief, legislating was not meant to be a speedy activity.

It's meant to be slow and pondering. And so I'm I'm I'm trying not to prognosticate, although

I like this bill. I hope it goes well, not just for us here in the state of see, Tennessee,

but to remind people in the other 49 states that, you know, the Constitution words mean things.

And even if the Supreme Court gets things wrong, the 14th Amendment still says, well,

that binds the state, you know, as a member of a church to say that you can't come in and force

us to recognize same-sex marriages. It's a wonderful thing. Exactly. And, you know, other

organizations, again, it's defending our rights, which securing our rights is the purpose

why we create governments in the first place, at least according to the Declaration of Independence.

Do you have any other interesting legislation that is coming along?

I think I've got several things that would fall into the category of interesting.

There's a there's a bill that's going to be heard in our House Judiciary Committee next week

called HB 1491 that seeks to put voluntary vocal prayer back into our public schools.

Ah, as you may recall from the founding of the country or even before, there was always

voluntary vocal prayer in Bible reading, Bible study, in public schools. That was taken away

in 1962 when the U.S. Supreme Court decided a case called Ingle versus Vitale out of New York,

as you're familiar with. By name and location. Yes. And that was a case where, once again,

the Supreme Court looking back at the establishment clause for the First Amendment said that having

prayer in public schools violates the establishment clause, which, as written, applies to Congress,

not to the States. Number one, and number two, even after the establishment clause and the

rest of the Bill of Rights were ratified on December 15 of 1791, prayer in public schools continued

all the way up until 1962. So there were no one who voted in favor of ratification of the Bill

of Rights thought that what they were doing was taking prayer out of public schools because it

continued for 150 years. Yet now we have the enlightened Hugo Black, a former Klansman in 1962,

reading the establishment clause as some type of a separation of church and state injunction,

which was never the case. And so we've got to bill that, frankly, on its face actually complies

with Ingle versus Vitale. But even if it doesn't, I think under our more recent Supreme Court precedents

the court faced with the issue, well, overturn Ingle versus Vitale. So I think that qualifies

another interesting bill. I'm just thrilled to have an attorney that not only reads in

quotes to Constitution, that it actually quotes the 14th Amendment accurately and recognizes that

the First Amendment applies only to Congress. And that when the Supreme Court says, well,

we incorporated the First Amendment of the States to the 14th Amendment, it says no such thing.

So that's kind of a pet peeve of mine. I review a lot of Supreme Court case here around the

First Amendment. So that's true for two. Anything else that other constitutional listeners

would be interested in? Probably so. I've got another bill that is known as HB 1472 that we

call the Baning Bostock Act. Bostock versus Clayton County, Georgia was a six three decision from

the Supreme Court from June of 2020, where the Supreme Court interpreted the term sex as used

in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to include sexual orientation, gender identity,

and gender nonconforming behavior. And your listeners will appreciate the fact that Title VII

is the federal anti-discrimination statute that prohibits discrimination on five bases, you know,

race, color, religion, sex, and natural origin. And for decades, Congress always tried to include

into add to that list sexual orientation and gender identity, and it never worked. In both the Biden

and Obama administrations, for example, there were bills called the Equality Act that were filed,

but they went nowhere. But somehow the Supreme Court decided in 2020 just to go ahead act as a

super legislature and put sexual orientation and gender identity into Title VII. And so to protect

our laws here in Tennessee, I have a bill that says that for purposes of interpreting our state

anti-discrimination laws, our state courts are not permitted to rely on Bostock, that they have

to look at the term sex as our general assembly intended, which simply meant male or female

man or woman. Because that's the type of discrimination that this Title VII of the Civil Rights

Act of 1964 was getting at at the time. Discrimination particularly against women in the workplace.

Right. Biology. A biology. In the workplace. And of course, you had Title IX which dealt with

the discrimination in sports. Yes. And all that. But okay. So let's see. It's three for three.

All of which involve how the Supreme Court has misinterpreted the Constitution. And I love

the fact that you have a state standing up and saying, no, you got it wrong. But within our sphere,

this is what imp says. It hopefully would be a reminder to the those in federal government that

the stage created the federal government, not the other way around. Exactly right, Paul. And

the shame of it is that our state governments for too long have allowed the federal government

just to take over. You go back and you look at the federalist papers in particular,

federalist 45 that James Madison wrote where he talks about the fact that the powers of the federal

government and the Constitution he just drafted are few and defined and the powers of the state

governments are numerous and indefinite. And look at our society now. It's exactly the opposite.

It's the states that have fewer and fewer powers. And the federal government is now all powerful

because of the way it has expanded its role under the Constitution. I mean, it started with

Marbury versus Madison in 1803 with the concept of judicial review. And you look at the way that the

Congress has used the Commerce Clause as a club to take over everything and not to mention,

you know, the now the federal use of executive orders to do things that even Congress can't do.

And you've got unfortunately, a constitutional form of government that is not what Madison and

the other founders intended. And so it's important for state legislators to push back on federal

overreach. And I think one can fairly say that Engel versus Vitale, Obergefell versus Hodges,

Bostock versus Clayton County Georgia, or all federal overreaches.

Now, I'm going to encourage you when you find some time to actually read the Marbury versus Madison

opinion because the term judicial review does exist in the opinion. They said, yes, we have the

we must, when we review a case, we have to review the laws related to the case and determine which

ones apply and when they're in conflict, which ones do we follow? And being the Constitution is the

paramount fundamental law of the land, it must predominate, which is why the court said, listen,

Marbury is correct. He is do his commission commission as a Justice of the Peace. However,

when Congress said that we would have the power to issue a rid of mandamus against the president,

that would be on the power to delegate about the Constitution so we cannot give him what is his

right do. And which brings you to a question. Again, you're an attorney. There are plenty of

attorney jokes, and I got to tell you it turns you, but I do have a question to ask, sure,

every attorney I mean. When you were in law school, did you study the land, did you take a class

we studied the language of the Constitution or constitutional law? We studied Constitution

law. Why would we read why would we read the Constitution as part of that? Well,

yes, because I'm still amazed that you get a degree in American law, a gradual

level degree in American law without studying the Supreme Law's land, which to me said you

should demand your money back. Yeah, but it's I asked that because in the almost 10 years I've

been asking this question, I've only had one man say he studied the Constitution in law school.

And it, to me, it tells me a lot about the legal system, which helps explain why we end up with

judges who don't recognize you don't have the authority to order the president around. They

completely forgot federal 78. I was in Hamilton that the courts have neither forced nor will

only judgment and ultimately depend on the executive arm for the efficacy of their decisions.

And I'm also obviously being somewhat facetious when I say we didn't read the Constitution in

law school, we did. But there was a focus not so much on its language, but on its history of

interpretation and the Supreme courts. But one of the most interesting facts that I remember about

Marbury versus Madison, obviously it was written by Chief Justice John Marshall. And John Marshall

was the Secretary of State for John Adams, who actually signed the commissions that were to go

to among others, Marbury. And then when Thomas Jefferson won the election and James Madison

became the Secretary of State, Marshall had been appointed to the Supreme Court by that time. And so

he was actually ruling on his own conduct, which we would today think that might be a bit of a

conflict of interest, but somehow back at the time it wasn't due that way. I learned to love

the history of the Constitution from things like that. And I find so many people have this

impression of the Constitution. And I refer to Starry Decises to President as it's a legal

game of telephone. The Constitution says this. A judge says the Constitution meant that.

Another judge says the first judge meant this. And you end up now generations later

with these iterations of interpretations, but not going back to the original document.

Me, I'm a horse's mouth type of guy. Not the other end of the horse when I'm looking for information.

So I find that. And again, I do with a lot of attorneys. I'm looking at attorneys in court.

I'm reviewing some of the other arguments to have an attorney that actually knows and quotes

the Constitution and is also in elected office. Okay, you're not in my district. I can't vote for

you, but this certainly would put you high in my list of people to vote for because I have a whole

I don't endorse people. I don't endorse parties. I endorse policies. And the policy of saying

well, the Constitution says this and it's our job as the state in part to protect our citizens

from a government for overreach. And I love to see that. I'm very happy to have had a chance to

meet you and talk with you. So far, those three pieces of legislation are great. And I hope

they do well. And I hope they inspire other people. Before I go, is there anything you want to

tell my audience? Maybe a place I can go follow up, especially if they're in Tennessee?

Sure, if you are someone who wants to follow our general assembly in Tennessee, go to capital.tn.gov.

And that's capital with an O. And there you'll be able to find the text of all the bills that we've

been talking about. You'll be able to have access live access to our committee hearings. And you'll

be able to find amendments to bills and be able to follow any piece of legislation as it works its

way through the general assembly. Now, I will put a link to this piece of the legislation

on the website when this posts so that people can follow it and see what's going on.

Geno, it's been a lot of fun. And thank you for your time and good, good blessings and good luck

with the work that you're doing. And the same to you. Well, I thoroughly enjoyed that interview.

I hope I have the opportunity to speak with Geno more. You know, we talked about federal

overreaching governments attacking our rights. Well, it's not just it's not just governments.

Our rights are under attack from well, other organizations often funded indirectly through your

dollars. Not just tax dollars, but the money you spend with different businesses. So let's stop

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Welcome back, Everyday Americans. You've rejoined the Constitution study and today

we're looking at the powers of the state. We've had a pretty good episode so far.

We looked at what's been going on and we focused on Tennessee because there was some

some cool legislation in place or that's that's working its way through the process that is

about pushing back on federal overreach. We had that interview with Gino Bolso.

Great guy. I just met him. I saw a story about one of his

month piece of legislation sponsoring and I decided it was worth some time and man I'm glad I did.

He had three pieces of legislation right here in Tennessee that while they're pushing back on

the Supreme Court overreach and government overreach and I love it. By the way,

if you want I've put the links to all three pieces of legislation in the show notes when they

hit the website so you can look at them and even if you don't live in Tennessee man this

something you can share with your state rap and state senator and let them know these are the types

of things we'd like to see you do. But if we're talking about the powers of state they're often

powers that had to be exercised against the federal government especially when the federal government

ignores the constitution that not only created it but that each and every member of the government

squares know with the support. And in the latest update FBI director Cash Patel has confirmed it

to lawmakers that the FBI is continuing to purchase a commercially available location histories

and other data from data brokers. Now if you're not familiar if you have a smart phone or

print out any smart device the phone knows where you are the device knows where you if you're

connected to a cell network they know where you are within a certain radius if your if your

device has a GPS in it it knows exactly where you are and as much as they say they don't

well this data gets tracked and it often you know and again it's not just the the devices you know

you install an app but it says they've got one of those apps for say a meal company right maybe

a pizza or a sub shop you know one of those where you can place your order and then it'll tell you

you know when you when you get close it'll automatically you know get your order processed

so it's ready and waiting for you it's tracking you and all that data is is collected by those

companies and they sell that data to data brokers remember if you don't pay for the service you are

the service so this goes to data brokers now the federal department of the federal Bureau of

Investigations is once again buying up this data it's to me brings in a couple of interesting

questions for example um Senator Ron Wyden asked Patel during testimony whether the FBI would

commit to not buying our location data without a warrant now this to me is a little I I understand

I think we're we're Senator Wyden is going it's the reasonableness of the search and does that

include the the the seizure of data because remember this data is not your data this data was

generated by other companies that you do business with it was then sold to a data broker it's

their property they can sell it to the FBI I can sell it to anybody they want that is not an

unreasonable seizure and I think part of it comes back to a a um something that the framers the

Constitution when they drafted the Bill of Rights never considered and that was the distinction

between your information and information about you think about it in the in the 18th century right

when they talked about your persons houses papers and effects you were talking physical paper

you would you know you would write stuff up you would have records and it was it was secured

but what about data about you now when when data about you is collected by so many other entities

and it's a serious concern for security-minded people for uh IT-minded people it's a serious

concern it provides some wonderful services that people enjoy but it always comes at a cost

so um you know mr. Michele said listen that the FBI uses all tools to do our mission

that includes the purchasing of this data here's where I've got the problem see that is a

that is a reasonable seizure when you purchase a product that somebody else owns that is a reasonable

seizure the question is what about the search see mr. Michele followed up with saying

we do purchase commercially available information that is consistent with the Constitution

and laws under the emergency electronic communications privacy act okay wait a second if it's

consistent with the Constitution doesn't that mean you need a reasonableness in order to search

right how do we know that your search is reasonable and that to me is where we get into it because

now you're you know well while you may have legal access to the the data the searching of the data

well is that reasonable and that's an area where I think a nice amendment to the Constitution

might be good to update the fourth amendment to deal with 21st century reality just century

realities and that is it's not only your papers and effects but it may be data that you generate

or is about you that we want secure again there's always going to be this tension between

security and privacy the most secure environment you have no privacy everything you do is out in

the open server to see it the most private system well is easily used to conceal information

that we could damage our security so how do we find this reasonable balancing act and I think

it's a discussion worthy of a serious consideration right it's the type of thing where if there were

a convention for proposing amendments to the Constitution I'd love to see a whole session on

the question of updating the fourth amendment to to deal with the 20 the realities of 21st century

life so I'm it's not like oh we we buy this commercially available data I don't think there's

anything illegal with that my question is how's it being used and now that they've purchased the data

the FBI says well it's our data we purchased it we can go searching at it at our hearts content

we don't need a warrant we don't need a reason most because it's our data but it's data about

the people and I think that's where we could use a bit a bit of an update especially now that

the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act the the FISA that we always hear about is well it's up for

renewal remember the infamous section 702 which is supposed to use to target foreign nationals

for intelligence purposes but has been used to extend that surveillance onto us not only people in the

U.S. but United States citizens simply because you know you called somebody who called somebody who

talked to somebody of interest a foreign national of interest now the the the FISA

warrants let you believe that you know the the multi-hop inclusion of all of this data and of course

there are rules about it's supposed to be redacted and hidden and you have to have more evidence

for you know rules of by the way apparently not are always followed very well so which is why

you know people I find it interesting that previously Donald Trump was a critic of FISA but now

all of a sudden he's all for a clean extension of section 702 now speaker Johnson says he intends

to move such a bill with an 18 months of extension through the house to see you know to try and

get it passed that would be that would be an interesting discussion now he claims that they've

instituted 56 substantive reforms to FISA this were changes made in the the 2024 reforming

intelligence and securing America act and he said by every measure and review those are working

just as we planned we have not had the abuses that were happening before those reforms

I'm not sure I've seen evidence of that all right the the absence of evidence is not the evidence

of absence so he say so that this idea of a again more surveillance extending into American citizens

I mean it's one thing if you're surveilling foreign nationals especially on foreign soil it's

another thing when they start targeting Americans they've got to have a good reason and I don't

think I've seen all stuff that says they're actually got a good reason for this type of surveillance

you also added that these flock cameras I was talking to somebody other day about the flock

cameras and again you have no expectation of privacy out in public if you're whatever can be seen

in public can be recorded that to me is not the problem with the flock cameras the problem the

flock cameras are when law enforcement search those databases without a warrant without problem

cause not even a reasonable articulal suspicion of the target being involved in a crime

I'm not saying that happens all the time I'm sure there are many situations where they go yes

you know there was a there was a hit and run and or there was some other crime and we got a car

we got a license plate we want to track it and yet out of that's one thing it's when the

reasonable illness is weaker that again we the people have to make sure that that we are overseeing

our government and the states are supposed to be there to help and again I spent 30 years in

IT so I'm familiar with the IT security aspects of FISA and flock cameras and all of this other

stuff you know but to me you know the the the collection of of of your data and

technically fits within the Constitution of the United States it fits within the Fourth Amendment

because as long as they're not seizing data from you as long as you and again we we talk about

flock cameras and stuff just think of the maiden fries and AT&T all of these entities you know

you've got all this cloud stores drop box and and one cloud and all that stuff

how often has federal agents even state agents issued a subpoena saying hand over this data not

even a warrant just a subpoena and they do that's why this quite because it's their data it's not

your data the the data about your cell phone usage it's the cell phone companies data you know

what you store in the cloud is considered the cloud as data at least according to the Supreme

Court I disagree with that opinion but that's the way the world works so we it's really comes back to

us if we want to be secure in our persons houses papers and effects we must start by making sure

that we secure our persons houses papers and effects it's why you know my my accountant doesn't

like the fact that I will not use an online accounting package I don't use an online accounting

service because I don't want them handing over my data without me knowing about it you know you

use one of these services and they and you'll get a subpoena from the FBI no problem cause no

reason a lot of artificial suspicion just a subpoena we're searching for people for whatever reason

and they'll hand it over and the court said that's fine because you've trusted with the third party

it's now in their control they can do with it whatever they want these are all concerns that

they have and it's again things I think would benefit from a good discussion about how do we

update the fourth amendment to work in 21st century and how can we the people be involved in making

that making that happen making sure our rights are secure it's again it's part of the reason why

I keep going back to you know John Jay's quote every member of the state a diligently to read

instead of the cost note tuition I was gun of his country teacher I can generation be free by

knowing their rights those soon to perceive when they're violated me the better prepared to defend

and assert them we want to know on our rights are being violated and we want to be prepared so

that we can make sure that we defend them that we assert them it's an important part of being

free it's kind of scary at first but guess what when you do this the the the liberty you feel the

freedom in your heart but to me it's absolutely amazing and I know most people are not going to go

too far they'll talk about it but they will not do that much it's why I created the Patriots program

at the Constitution study it's a it's an invitation only program for people who are serious

about the Constitution that want to read and study and really get into the nitty gritty who want to

communicate with others of like mine I want to know what other Patriot groups are doing

that want to be able to do so without worrying about sensors coming along and blocking your traffic

but also most importantly people that are ready at a moment's notice to come to the aid of others

you think about it uh uh you know I've been asked to go down to Florida to keynote a speech

that's wonderful I love doing it but what happens if they've got an issue wouldn't it be cool

if someone down there says hey you know what I'm part of this group and I know this guy that really

knows this stuff maybe we can get in touch or maybe you know there's a press conference or a committee

hearing in a state legislature and they'd like experts to come in and help explain the constitutional

point of view wouldn't it be nice to have groups of people that could do that and a communications

package where you could could find out and share that information without worrying about um you know

being shut down because some social media platform decides they don't like the idea of liberty

and freedom now as I said this is invitation only this is not your average group I'm not it's not

trying to replace a Patriot group it's trying to help those groups with some resources now if you

want to find out more go to constitutionstudy.com slash patriots you can read up about the program see

the details and take the bootcamp to get an invitation you have to start with the bootcamp it's

right that's a one hour video um and and a test of it now if you'd like me to come deliver that

that uh uh class to you I'd be more than happy if we can work out the traveling logistics

but once you take the the the course the bootcamp and you pass the test there's an oath I ask you

to take and it's really meant to make sure there are people that are serious not you know I'm going

to join because I just like joining groups I want people that are serious about defending their rights

and the rights of their neighbors you do that you'll get an invitation to join us and since we're

still fairly young you can help shape this program so that it can be the most benefit to the most

people all with a standpoint of standing again to support our constitution against all enemies

foreign and domestic and sadly there are plenty of domestic enemies against our constitution

so if you're interested again go to constitutionstudy.com slash patriots read up about it take the

bootcamp the bootcamp is free so even if you decide not to join the bootcamp will be helpful and

be useful because I also hope you'll come back and listen to us here the constitution study

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