Sunday OT: Packers hire Cam Achord as new special teams coordinator, but does it actually matter?

The ultimate goal is winning the Super Bowl, and while there's a lot of stuff to talk

about right now with the Combine and a new special team's coach, it's not clear any

of this stuff actually matters when it comes to the Packers trying to go win another trophy.

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It is a Sunday OT show, which means I have to bring in my co-hosts from the Locked on

Packers Squad Show, Brandon Snyde joins me now, you're not a guest on this show on the Sunday

OT.

You are the co-host, Brandon.

I appreciate you as always, and I thought we'd play a little game here because there's

a lot to talk about if you really want to get into the granularity in the minutiae and

we have football sickos that listen to this show and they generally like to do that.

When it comes to the business of winning a Super Bowl, I want to see where you are with

how much this stuff actually matters.

We've had some breaking news since we last spoke.

Since our Friday news dump, it was a special team's Friday news dump for the Green Bay Packers

Cam Ochoord.

It was that that's apparently how he spells name.

I talked to my old pal Mike Debate, used to be our Locked on Patriots host.

It is Cam Ocho, like Ochoo, that was what he said, Ochoord.

And so he was one of the first guys that we talked about.

When we talked about this list of candidates back when we first, probably two weeks ago,

when the first group came out and of the guys that were out there.

And I said of the retreads that you could potentially hire.

He was particularly interesting to me because he comes from that Bellachek coaching tree.

Because those coaches tend to be so detailed oriented because he once coached the number

one special teams in the NFL.

And he was the lead guy in his early 30s.

Like that speaks volumes to me for Bill Bellachek.

And that was before a Bellachek went full NEPO with his son, you know, and his, his

mullet and his, in his sideburns and whatever.

Like this was a guy who led the number one, uh, the number one special teams group in

the NFL six years ago.

He's 39.

So I think that speaks a lot about the kind of coach he can be.

And as they, they, the play fell off, they were a midling special teams unit in the middle

there.

Matthew Slater, who is the best special teams player of his generation, was saying, look,

this is not on the coach.

He thinks that, that, that cam is a great coach.

It was the players who were not executing when I, when I first went through the, the characteristics

of the kind of coach that I felt like the packers needed.

He wanted a young guy with upside who could be here for a long time, who had that sort

of progressive mindset that I'm going to be looking ahead.

I'm going to be thinking about these new rules and the changes and all this stuff that's

going to be forward looking.

And I feel like that's, that's kind of what the Bill Bellachek experience was about.

He was always thinking a step ahead.

Now whether the game passed him by later in his career, I think that's worth having

a conversation about the guy was in his seventies.

The game is not.

So let's keep that clear here.

Now, Brandon, how much do you care about this?

I don't care because I don't think it matters, Peter.

Like you could hire Jesus as the special teams coordinator and I'm not sure that it would

make a difference because until the organization is ready to fundamentally change their approach

to special teams, I just, I don't think it necessarily matters, right?

Like, look at the Chicago Bears.

Look how long it took them, hey, talking about that team on this show.

Like, think of, like, think I want it, took them to find a quarterback and how many

darts they threw at a wall until they, oh, let's hire a coach who actually knows what

he's doing.

Let's hire a coach who wants to take a different approach into drafting and developing the

quarterback position.

It's kind of like the packer special teams, Peter 2007 was the last time they had a top

10 unit.

That's not a rich basaccia issue.

That's not a MATLA floor issue.

That's a Green Bay Packers issue for the last almost two decades.

I don't, I think it's interesting, right?

It gives us something to digest and break apart and look at the pros and the cons and have

some fun during an off season and maybe get a little excited, right?

Because I always like to stay a little bit optimistic despite what you and Coach Jags like

to say.

But so like, that's the cool part about it.

But for me, it doesn't matter because until the packers really go into wanting to improve

their special teams from the top down, like MATLA floor saying, I don't talk to kickers.

Well, you probably should coach the floor and Brian Gunniken, I give him a little bit

more credit because he did go out and address some positions of need when it comes to the

special teams when you go and sign Nick Neiman off of off of the Los Angeles Chargers during

training camp.

Like, there's obviously a little bit of care when you build your roster.

But like, Brandon McManus, he shouldn't have been in.

He shouldn't have been kicking field goes when he was hurt.

Like, that tells me right there that the organization just doesn't care.

So I don't care necessarily no offense to the incoming special teams coordinator who

you're going to be because I just until it happens, Peter, I'm not going to buy that the

packers are ready to be a serviceable special teams unit.

If they make a good hire, I do think that matters on the margins.

But I also just, I think Rich Bessace was a net negative for this team.

If you just get a net neutral coach, that's fine.

Like really truly, I think that is fine because Matt LaFlor likes to point out, hey, we don't

make that many mistakes, but when we do their nuclear mistakes, like just cut out the nuclear

mistakes.

I don't, you don't need to have Desmond Howard in his prime.

You don't have to have, you know, Mason, you don't have to have Adam Venetary at kicker.

You don't need to have Craig Hendrix in 1996 as your punter, although Daniel Wheelan's

pretty close.

But just don't kill them.

And I think it's all going to be fine.

Let's talk about the combine stuff because like my dad, for example, he listens to the

show, but through the draft, he's just like, I'm out, I can't, I can't get excited about

it.

Tell me when the players are in the building.

And we can talk about them.

I love all the numbers.

I love digging into all this stuff.

I was, I was, you know, enthralled by watching the defensive tackles run 40s because it's

like big man move fast.

It's those, that, that, that to me, like every defensive tackle we saw run, even the

slow guys are faster than like 99% of the people listening to this show right now, including

you and I.

Oh, absolutely.

It's, it's crazy.

I personally love it.

Do you care?

Not a ton, but there's three, there's three events that I actually care about.

I, I'll be honest with you, like half of the names, a good chunk of the names.

I don't necessarily know.

I'll go back and I'll look at what their highlights were where they went to school.

Oh, this is a badger.

Okay.

I remember him from this game or that game.

There's three events that I really, really like, the three cone drill, the 10 yard split.

When you talk about big man, like 10 yard split for me is the important one, right?

Like are you explosive?

Can you get out of your stance?

Like that one is fun for me to watch.

You mentioned it already walking into the, the, the do you care question is the 40 yard

dash.

Like when Matthew Golden ran and, and when these other, when these fast guys are running,

like I'm amazed at the speed that they have when it comes to that 40 yard dash.

So like it, and it, and of course it matters what position, right?

When receivers are running the 40 yard dash, when running backs, when corner backs, like

then I'm like, okay, that's cool.

I want to watch that.

But if it's like linebacker, okay, give me the three cone drill.

If it's, you know, defensive line, offensive line, give me the 10 yard, what are your 10

yard splits?

Like that's the stuff I necessarily care about.

Is it must watch TV for me?

I'm probably with your dad, shout out your dad because I'm like, eh, like I'll look

on, you know, social media and I'll see maybe a highlight of a guy breaking, you know,

the 40 yard dash record potentially or, or something along those lines.

Like the receivers catching the, the, the footballs in the gauntlet, like, cool, like

you can catch.

I hope that is what you can do as a receiver in college going in to the NFL.

And I don't know how many times you're going to catch a ball, you know, turning your

head every five seconds.

But so like those things don't mess one, I think that's the most translatable to like

real NFL world in his fund is like, oh, I can see, you know, that guy, I can see the,

the carnal Tate or whoever, like go out and, and catch passes.

That's cool.

That's fun.

But so the comment is, as TV, that's one thing.

And I understand people not wanting to watch it.

What about the numbers as they relate to what the packers do?

Because I think Brian Gutekins takes a lot of heat.

Your guy, Brian Gutekins, locked on Packer Squad Show fan, um, Brian Gutekins, he takes

a lot of heat for being seemingly being obsessed with athletic profile, especially

early in the draft.

So these numbers matter to the packers.

Do you think they matter too much?

No, but I would like to see, and I know this has been a topic on social media.

I want to see a little bit more college production out of some of these guys.

Now I know Peter, not every player it translates, right?

Like, you're my pastor.

Sure.

Mostly.

Yeah.

Like you look at, like, because LVN is in that conversation, right?

And I know what Clay Matthews did.

I know that's a name that was brought up.

I don't know if I cared more about numbers than I do now about production.

And I think when the packers go out and get guys that have, have high production in college,

like that to me translates better than what was your three cone?

What was your 40?

How many times did you bench press, you know, when you get guys, especially in Green Bay,

right?

Like, because the versatility, right?

You get a guy at an offensive line who's never played right guard.

Who is a left tackle in college and now he's your right guard, like, yep, because he

has good numbers because he's athletic.

Yeah.

I suppose, give me the guys who in college played the positions that, that they played in

college, bring them into the professional ranks, put them in that position and have some

college production.

It doesn't need to be every player that the packers draft.

Like, there's been guys where they've drafted that just didn't have college production.

But it's, it's hard.

Not get my head around that was at 2021 draft with LVN when, or 2022, I believe it was,

when you had Christian Gonzalez in JSN.

I'm okay.

2023.

2023.

There we go.

Uh, when you had those guys literally sitting in front of you and I know that happens

in every draft.

But LVN didn't produce in college.

I don't even think he started at Iowa and then, yeah, but that was a different thing.

What, what is funny to me, Brandon is, and, and I think you're right at times, what's

funny is at receiver, they care deeply about production.

At quarterback, they care deeply about production and what two positions have they drafted

better than anyone over the last 35, 40 years, quarterback and receiver.

And yet, when it comes to past rushers, they are willing to bet on athletic traits and

it's like, well, could you find both, like, I know that that's rare.

Like, the guys that usually have the elite athleticism and the elite production go on the

top 10 and the packers don't pick in the top 10, right?

But when you took Lucas Van Ness, that's a top 15 pick.

When you took Roshan Gary, that's a top 15 pick.

Those guys, you had opportunities to draft players that have the combination of production

and athleticism.

And for whatever reason, it's almost like they take a sadistic pleasure in trying to find

the diamondy in the roughest possible guy, even when they have premium picks.

And that's where I think sometimes they get into trouble.

I, I know that you guys on the squad show talked about the, uh, the NFL PA survey data.

I want to get your thoughts on that when we come back on a locked on packer Sunday,

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So the packers fell basically from above average to below average in the NFL PA survey and

it came from really from two main spots and that is the the way that they take care

of the players which is the training room the training facilities the trainers the strength

and conditioning staff the food that was the big one we talked about that a little bit

on our on our Friday newsdump show.

But then there's also this head coach drop in grade from an A minus to a B minus and

put him near the bottom of the league Brandon do you care no no not really because I think

Peter the only thing I think this is like losing right like the packers had a bat and

I know the survey happened before the season and but I just don't know vibes were great

throughout the course of the season the packers run a little bit of a run late there you

know from that Thanksgiving game on you know with that Denver game in between there they

were on a little bit of a run but like I I've said this before and I have a theory for

this Peter and you can correct me maybe if I'm a little bit off base here but I had

this theory I will a lot of these guys and the packers are now the third year in a row

they're the youngest team in the NFL so a lot of these guys are coming straight from

the college ranks and since they have been in high school they have been wind and

dying they have had the red carpet rolled out for them everywhere they have gone whether

it be in high school into college and the and the facilities they've had in college and

the NIL opportunities they've had in college some of them are probably making less money

in the NFL than they made in in the college ranks and that's just a valid more money going

back to school than Tyler Shuck made a quarterback more money in one year than his whole than

Tyler Shucks whole rookie contract so and Jags brought up a good point on the lockdown

packers squad show you can listen to that wherever you get audio podcasts also over here

on YouTube but he said like it was never a conversation when we were when when it was when

he was in Green Bay like it it was it was always great and the and the things that are ranked

ahead of the packers this is why I don't like you're going to tell me soldier fields home

field is ranked better I know that's not the land both you're going to tell me Peter you're

going to tell me two coaches off the top of my head that were fired were better than Matt LaFlaur

Tennessee Peter they don't even have a head coach is ranked ahead of Matt why should I take

this serious like why am I take like and here's the other thing too and maybe this is the

Homer the bias to me like Green Bay has taken their has taken steps to fix this a lot of this right

the parking structure at Lamblefield completely redone the locker room completely redone I know

the grade reflects that from a B2 and a for the Green Bay Packers from 25 to 26 they're redoing

the training room I understand her some questions around the training staff I've talked to players

that have dealt with that exact training staff and they say they're the best in the NFL and they've

played in other places in the NFL so I don't know if the Green Bay Packers are filling out this

survey and they're still asking Kurt banker you know his opinions on it like I don't know

if that's what's going on but I just don't understand how you go some of these are full

letter grades Peter training room and a minus to a C like how is that so different yeah that doesn't

make any sense right like and that's where I'm at like I'm looking at this and I'm like I just don't

I just I think it's hard for me to pull about about the young players is so spot on because if

you look at the facilities like remember a couple years ago I was made a big deal about

their new facility and you were just like holy god like what like Alabama's in that right and

Georgia's in that and it's actually this is what's crazy is and and I think people are just starting

to now realize some of this stuff almost every major college like blue blood facility is better

than half the facilities in the NFL yeah comfortably comfortably and so I think the NFL is

finally realizing like they don't because the NFL doesn't have to recruit and college does

college needs that they they realize they need to have that stuff what the NFL I think is starting

to realize especially in a league that is skewing younger and younger is you need to make sure that

these guys want to be there it's like it's like in tech brand and like the the cool thing in tech

for the longest time was not oh look at we're going to pay you so much more money know we're going

to give you stock options and the office is going to be a kind of place you want to hang out with

basketball courts and and free food and all of this stuff to make it you make just you feel happier

at work and and the point that I made on the on the live stream on Friday was there is a direct

correlation between nutrition and injury and the fact that the packers are getting a C I think

has to make them as an organization it's not just MATLA floor and I said this I don't think MATLA floor

needs to be like listening to Andrew Hebrewman podcasts and making sure that like everyone is

maximizing their longevity but someone in the building does someone in the building has to be

in charge of that stuff whether it's operations whether it's you know building services I don't I

don't know who in the hierarchy of Rembe needs to be on that stuff but someone does and the fact

of the training staff is getting this C grade like I talked to a player who said I didn't I didn't

see any difference I had multiple injuries this was the player speaking I had multiple different

kinds of injuries and got basically the same treatment for it so that seems that seems suboptimal

I'm not a doctor but that that and that was the player's perspective on it was like this doesn't seem

right to me even if it was sometimes it doesn't the perception doesn't seem right what do you think

about the MATLA floor piece of this though like what what what could have possibly changed in a year

that that would have players going I don't know where this is not great and by the way that the

grading is like respect for the players from the head coach not how good do you think your head

coaches and I think that's an important difference here yeah that that needs to be said out loud

certainly on social media because fans are are going crazy with that one but I look at it Peter

you remember at the end of the year right Packers losing soldier field awful ending to the season

they lost yeah well no I mean sort of it's a blur but like they lose five in a row right to end

their season and like the vibes or hashtag not great but then you see Tucker craft Xavier McKinney

Josh Jacobs Jordan love Micah Parsons all coming out in defense of Jordan loves at Tom was also

in that like and so like for me it's like it's like okay how is one how how is the the core of your

locker room vocally defending the head coach but then his grade doesn't reflect that so what is

are the players lying are the people that are being asked to complete these surveys not being

interviewed like it just doesn't for me it doesn't match up directly and I and here's the other

thing too is everybody wanted Rich Bessacea fired right he gets the B plus like he gets a better grade

than Matt Laflore and people are that's the thing with fans like which one are you on because you

blamed Rich Bessacea for the special teams the players loved him but the players loved him so you

you can't have it both ways when it comes to Matt Laflore honestly I you're this is not a good answer

for the Lockdown Packers Sunday OT I don't really know what to make of it I can't buy into it I

I put zero stock zero stock into this NFL PA thing and I I kind of understand why why the New York

Jets want to get rid of it I just don't understand what he Johnson wants to get rid of it what he

Johnson wants to get rid of I just don't understand how a full letter grade two and where you have

multiple other coaches as I already talked about that are ahead of him I for me it's it's head

scratching I understand Matt Laflore is under a lot of scrutiny I understand Matt Laflore

quote unquote could be on the hot seat entering the 26 season even though he just signed a contract

extension I know expectations are really really high in Green Bay and rightfully so but he also

ushered in the Jordan love era very very seamlessly from Aaron Rogers and I think he doesn't get

enough credit for that and fans are just pounding their fists on the table I want a super bowl I

want a super bowl but it is very difficult I know it's a cliche saying it is difficult and very

hard to win and the Packers have found a way to do it every single year and Micah Parsons brother

for whatever it's worth on Twitter yesterday acts whatever it's called said one of the main reasons

Micah came to Green Bay wasn't because of the destination although it is a destination in my opinion

but said it was because of Matt Laflore like it was because of Matt Laflore like that carries a

little bit of weight and I don't understand the great the B minus a full letter grade drop

for Matt Laflore and coaches ahead of him where he morris john and gannon and can I give you my

my most expensive conspiracy theory on this absolutely look at some of the other coaches at the

bottom of the list p carol yep Jim Harball yep these are old school coaches and I know Matt Laflore

has a reputation among some fan fans that he's soft that he doesn't hold these guys accountable

I don't think that's true and in fact I have heard directly that he is hard on these guys

and there is a reputation I'm I'm not going to make any sweeping broad judgments I'm saying there

is a reputation of a certain generation of players of people human beings that that's just they

don't respond to that stuff and that maybe there needs to be an adjustment of how the players are

communicated to especially in the NIL era where everyone is catered to everyone you have to

understand your people and you have to coach your players right like you have to teach to your

students you have all those things are true you have to you have to you know when when you're a

leader in a company you have to make sure that you are communicating in a way that your employees

are going to resonate with it and it does make me wonder a little bit like I actually think this

is proof of the opposite problem that fans have with Matt Laflore and that maybe he needs

to be a little bit more of a arm around the shoulder guy than a kick in the ass guy I don't

this is just like my this is kind of my my working theory on what on what is going on here

because this is the youngest team in the league it's a lot of 22 23 24 year olds it's just it's

puzzling because when you hear those guys Peter at the end of the season say you know and I'm

paraphrasing them that that we want him he's he's one of the reasons I came here I think that

was almost a direct quote yeah from Mike Mike he said he reached out to Matt Laflore when he saw

the news about like potential firings and he was like that's nonsense you're my guy like he

didn't have to say people will say oh what is he supposed to say well he doesn't say that

like he doesn't have to be that abusive he doesn't have to go that far that's that's how that's

where I'm at with the like it's just to me it just doesn't it doesn't add up it doesn't make sense

and I know it's the big talking point throughout packer nation right now throughout the NFL

but the packers you're telling me Peter and I know you've been around the NFL that that green

bay organization 21st in the national football league it's nonsense I zero stock I don't buy it at all

all right we're gonna have to start adding entitled down fans with entitled town players unfortunately

it sounds like Brandon we appreciate the time as always my friend make sure you're subscribing to

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