Support for Israel Has Collapsed Among Young Americans

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Thanks, Sam, for having me. I'm happy to be here chatting with you.

All right. Well, this is to the people who are watching this. A little sort of

preamble before we get into this. This is one of those discussions that is

both deeply important and potentially uncomfortable for a lot of folks

because we're going to be diving into both polling data and focus group data

that we conducted that looks at how young people are responding to and

reacting to the state of Israel, to Jewish identity, to pluralism, writ large.

And why, I suppose, many people in this cohort are comfortable engaging in what

people would have otherwise considered bigotry or anti-semitism or just

harsh attitudes towards people who are not like them. So some of the stuff is

very real and some of the stuff is difficult to talk about. And if Rachel or I

misstate something or state something that comes across maybe insensitively,

don't blame us. We're doing our best. We're trying to have an honest conversation

about a poor matter. So let's start with this. The prompt for this was this

NBC poll that came out fairly recently. The dates of the poll are February 27th

to March 3rd and it looked at attitudes towards Israel and lo and behold, young voters,

their views on Israel have turned sharply aggressively negative. If you're

between the ages of 18 and 34, your positive view towards Israel,

corned to this NBC poll is just 13%. In 2023, that number was 26%. Your negative

towards Israel now is 63%. In 2023, that was 37%. The numbers are better as you get to

older demographics. But frankly, in the 35 to 49 demo, it's not that great.

It's 20% positive, 43% negative. It's really in the older demo where it gets more even.

So that's the top line data. But then we did a listening session on anti-semitism and attitudes

towards hate and safety. And there's a few things we're going to pull out. But I'll just say,

it's a small group. It's only five participants. But it's four of what Rachel calls her ambassadors.

And Rachel, you can explain what that means. And one community member. And some of the things

that they said were really, I don't know, a nerving, I suppose, from me. But Rachel,

why don't I leave it to you to sort of speak in generalities about what you discovered through

this session? Yeah. And thank you, Sam, for that introduction, because I agree. I think

these topics are incredibly sensitive. And they were for the participants in this listening

session that I held last night. So at the epitaph, which is the Gen Z community and research firm

that I have, we have ambassadors who help us in terms of recruitment for listening sessions.

And sort of getting the pulse of how people are feeling in their communities, whether they're

on campuses or they're in cities or communities across the country. And so after the attack in

Michigan at the synagogue there last week, I felt like it was time to talk to our community.

Again, we've had conversations like these over the past few years about how they're feeling

about a rise of anti-Semitism in their communities. And also just about hate, bigotry,

their own safety in the US more broadly. And last night in this in this listening session,

I heard from current students who were on campuses across the country that yes,

these topics are very pronounced for them on their campuses that they definitely see a rise

of anti-Semitism in their communities. There were members on the call who are Jewish and others

who are not. And the ones who are Jewish said that they have felt ups and downs when it comes

to anti-Semitism and its prevalence since October 7th. And then for the ones who are not Jewish,

they said that they've seen this from their friends or with their friends too. And so the biggest

theme overall was just that the anti-Israel sentiment and anti-Semitism have been totally conflated.

And kind of the high level quote that I felt was just the most both shocking but also telling

was from a 22-year-old who's at Georgetown who said that it's now considered just kind of a

base to take. And we can talk about what that means in a second, but a base take to be anti-Israel

and therefore to then be anti-Jew. And I think, you know, we look at a poll like that NBC poll.

And this is this is pervasive and it's felt by students. And I think that's really important

to talk about because yes, we've talked a lot about campuses and students and the way that

the Israel-Palestine situation has played out on their campuses since October 7th. But I think now

again with the Iran War, this is just only becoming more of a prominent conversation on campus.

Well, what struck me about that and the base take is basically like, you know, you kind of

signal to your peers that it's like you're a free thinker basically if you say anti-Semitic stuff

or say insulting stuff about minorities or something that. But what struck me about some of these

responses is that they believe they're in a climate more or less where they have been liberated.

I mean, this is just me channeling what they're saying where they have been liberated or it's

signal to them that they can just act this way, you know, that you are, you know, one of them called

it the death of others. But others were talking about how, you know, using dehumanizing language now

seems like it's utterly tolerable. And one of them was, you know, talking about how, you know,

the election of Trump after Barack Obama meant that you could have a backlash against PC culture and

it was fine and acceptable and if not encouraged. And I guess it raises this kind of depressing

secondary question, which is, was this stuff always in us and we just kind of held it back because

social norms said you can't say that it's awful, it's wrong, you'll be in trouble. Or are we

getting signals from authority figures that in fact, you should say this because it's a way to

signify that you are edgy and based. Maybe both. I think both of those are a little bit true.

I think that first, I've written a lot about this idea of the two Gen Zs and that our generation

was split down the middle based on how we'll do right at the time of the pandemic, but also different

technologies that shaped your upbringing, whether it was Snapchat or Instagram or TikTok or YouTube

or whatever. But there's a difference in how Gen Z 1.0 acts and how Gen Z 2.0 acts. And part of that

was the sort of counter culture during their adolescent time growing up, going through puberty,

all of that when you're really forming your political beliefs and also your sense of individuality.

And so for Gen Z 1.0, that's what I'm a part of. We were considered to be so progressive,

to be leading the charge on social movements, whether it was the March for our lives or Black Lives

or climate strikes or reproductive health care access, all of it. And then Gen Z 2.0, I think,

and this came up last night in our conversation, looked at that activism and said, where do that

get us? That didn't really change anything. And so they kind of have swung and I don't want to say

that Gen Z 2.0 is all to the right because I think that was a big talking point around the time of

the 2024 election. And it is a part of why young people did swing towards Trump in 2024.

But it was kind of that counter cultural swing and not so much that all of a sudden they're all

MAGA or Republicans. But the reason why I bring this up is because I think that Gen Z 1.0 was peak

woke. And Gen Z 2.0 rejects that. And so just to be clear, on this call last night, in the listening

session, the students weren't a fan of the way that this was going. They don't believe that any of

this is right. But they do see a normalization amongst their peers of some of this outspoken more

bigotry. Like they said that the R word is being thrown around in a way that it never would have

been 10 years ago. And they recognize that. Sure. Well, and well, first of all, it gives me a little

bit of hope that there's a backlash to the backlash coming. But secondarily, I mean, it makes sense that

they see it and they respond to it because the biggest voices are the ones who are pushing it,

right? I mean, so we talked about Trump a little bit. And he obviously is anti-woke. And he's

said incredibly racist and hurtful things around minorities. But then you look at Candace Owens,

who has this immense audience. And she is spouting anti-Semitic bio day in and day out. And yeah,

when you have that type of audience and you're reaching that type of cohort, people are going to

pick up on that. I think she came up in one of these conversations that you're having. Yes, she did.

I mean, people are well aware of where this is coming from. I think also they pointed to the fact

that there are prominent figures like Candace Owens who are spewing anti-Semitic rhetoric.

But they also talked about the way that it's not just Jews who are being targeted right now or

who are being talked about in this awful, hateful way, but that there's anti-immigrant rhetoric and

there's rhetoric against trans people and other minorities. And I think it just feels like kind of

this tipping point where it is very much in the cultural norm right now to be able to be outspoken

where you are, like I said, bigoted in any of these ways. And it kind of feels like it is either

going to get worse or it has to get better, but it's not like you can't say at this cadence that

it's at right now. I think that's what I mean by a tipping point and they feel this. And I think

they talked about it too, the fact that they see it very much coming from the top down.

And the result that that has. And also if you think about it, I feel like I make this point

over and over again. But if you're in Gen Z, you've literally only known a political ecosystem

dominated by President Trump. And so this type of language and rhetoric has been the norm for

the entire time that they've existed in politics in their life. It's hard to sort of overstate

how important that is to have that as kind of your anchor on which you look, you view political

rhetoric. But the other, I mean, there's been other obviously seminal moments for this generation.

And then we'll get to one another one in a second, but the one I want to talk to right now is

obviously October 7th because what happened on college campuses after October 7th,

you were dealing with the ripple effects today, obviously each campus was different. And I don't

want to say everyone's experience was the same. But you know, it was clearly for Jewish students

on campus is difficult. And you talk to one of them here who literally felt for the first time

in their lives a sense of discomfort because they had a very recognizable Jewish surname.

Explain that. Yeah. So there were actually two young women in this session last night who talked

about feeling a certain way because of their last name and worrying about being perceived

basically because they come across as Jewish, not necessarily by the way they look, but by what

their last name isn't if someone knew what their last name was. And so we had one student who told

me that she for the first time really after October 7th had to think twice about where in her

Judeaica. And this was a conversation that she was having with her friends. This is something I've

heard plenty of, you know, any even experience this myself since October 7th. And then there was

another student who said that she very openly outwardly disagrees with the actions of the state of

Israel, but that she worries that she will be perceived a certain way by her peers because she's

Jewish and the way that there is that conflation of the Jewish people and the state of Israel. And

I found that there was a lot of nuance in the way that these young people that we spoke to last

night talked about their relationship both, you know, when it comes to they might disagree with

actions taken by the government of Israel. This one young woman in particular is very critical

of the government, but yet still understands that it is very dangerous to blame Jews for the

actions of the state of Israel. And and that's been something that Jewish students in particular

have had to grapple with regardless of where they stand on the spectrum of how they feel about

the actions that the Israeli government has taken.

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Right, you have two sort of countervailing trends here. One is incredible,

and tip of the if not outright anger towards the state of Israel. You saw it in the NBC poll.

I mean, those numbers, they're like shocking in terms of how bad young people view the state of

Israel. And you know, this is obviously the poll was done right around the start of the war,

but you know, you have to imagine those numbers are even worse now. And then secondarily,

you have a real sense of concern among Jewish students on college campuses, including among

Jewish students who, as you know, don't necessarily agree with the actions of the state of Israel.

And these two things are getting conflated in which these Jewish students are being targeted

for acts of the Israeli government. That's what we saw with Michigan Synagogue as well.

The last thing I want to talk about though, which in a way, I mean, all the stuff is pretty chilling,

but in a way, this kind of actually affected me the most was how this generation has basically

become desensitized to both the rhetoric, but also acts of violence. These howled with these kids

when Parkland happened. They were all in middle school. So we talked about that specifically.

They, because we've been talking about gun violence and they were all in middle school.

Yeah, and just expand on that. I mean, some of them were just sort of like, yeah, you know,

I'm not really moved by hate rhetoric and acts of violence because I live it every day.

Yeah, it's very numbing. There's been a numbing effect because of how common this has become

and also because there's been no action taken. So, you know, think about it. If you were in

middle school during the time of Parkland, and even before that was Sandy Hook, and you've grown

up in an environment where you're doing active shooter drills where that's just literally the norm.

And yet you're not seeing any government action when it comes to gun safety. And someone

in the conversation last night also brought up the fact that this is very obviously not even though

that this, you know, gun safety has been championed by the left. Gun violence is something that has

very prominently affected Republicans. In fact, President Trump was shot and Turley Kirk was

assassinated. And so they talked about the fact that like this clearly shouldn't be a partisan

issue because it's affecting people on both sides. And yet it obviously is there's been no action.

And the fact that there's been no action, it keeps happening over and over again. And they're

witnessing on they, I talked about this a lot actually after Turley Kirk was killed because

everyone watched that video in real time. And you could be scrolling and you could be watching a

meme about something completely unrelated. You could be watching something from pop culture,

you could be watching a sports highlight reel. And then all of a sudden you see a video of someone

being shot and killed. And then you scroll past and the next thing pops up on your feet.

And so for young people who have seen this play out time and time and again and also they're

watching war play out time and time and again. And then just scrolling past it, it's, it's very

numbing. And the young people on the call last night we had one student who said that she sees a lot of

friends who decide they're just going to be a political because they can't take it anymore. And

they wanted to now. And I think that's really dangerous. And because you know, if all of a sudden

young people feel like this, it's not all of a sudden. This has been obviously going on for a while.

But if they feel like it's too much that they don't want to even partake in the political process

anymore because there's just no point, that is not where you're not having a representative

democracy at that point. My lot to read the quote or is that for a fit here? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, I'm going to read one of the quotes because this is the one that really stopped me.

It said, when I hear about kids dying, yes, it's sad. But for a lot of these things, like I think

it's sad, but then I kind of move on because if I got heartbroken over every single thing that

happened, I wouldn't be able to live, right? This is a 19 year old. Uh, I mean, that's just,

that shakes me a little bit. And I'll just add to your point, you scroll and you see the gun violence

and then you scroll and you keep seeing the war and then you scroll and you see Candace Owen say

Israel's responsible for all of this, right? And then it's like at certain point,

it becomes kind of a uncontrollable fountain of, you know, horrible imagery and conspiratorial thinking.

And I don't see how you break through that. I mean, I'm not trying to blame it all on the

algorithms, but I think a lot of it has to do with the algorithms and what what what what we're

being fed on a day-to-day basis. Yeah, and it's just not just the algorithms. You know, we had

a young woman last night who made the point that not only do you have people like Candace Owen's who

are saying that, but then you actually have the current administration saying that they got into

this war because of Israel. And so it kind of justifies these conspiracies and justifies the fact that,

you know, that there is this belief that Israel is just, I mean, that America is just doing

Israel's bidding. And that doesn't help. That doesn't help Jews who are facing this on campuses.

That was directly what they told us last night that they feel like that only conflates the issue

even more when the US is, you know, saying they're doing this simply to protect this ally and not

because of any interests of our own. And let me be clear. I mean, I don't think that all that

explains why young voters are turning on Israel, right? Like is the Israeli government has made

proactive decisions around what happened in Gaza and certainly what's happening in Iran

that have caused people to recoil at the state of Israel? What I do think is obviously problematic is

when people equate Jews everywhere with the state of Israel and take them on with the anti-Semitic

acts or rhetoric because that's the definition from anti-Semitism is conflating all Jews with Israel.

This is a really important study. I guess you can call it study. What do you call it? It's a focus

group. It's important reporting. It's a listening session. I appreciate it. And for those who listen

to this, we appreciate your your viewership and your understanding of how sensitive this conversation

is. Like I said at the top, you know, these are difficult topics to talk about. And oftentimes,

there are ones that elicit some of the most sharp responses and commentary. And we appreciate that.

You should be engaging with us and we like hearing from you. We hope that you appreciate that we try

to deal with this with the sensitivity that it deserves. Rachel, thanks so much. It's so great

having you as a contributor here. I'm looking forward to the next listening session. Hopefully

it can be a little bit more uplifting than this one. We can do good content too. Optimus content as

well as negative ones. Okay, I appreciate that. Let's try to get one on the bugs. That's a little

bit more uplifting than this. For those who are watching, thank you for subscribing to the bulwark.

Appreciate that as well. We'll talk to you soon. Forget whatever plans you have this weekend because

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