Talking Zayne Parekh and Load Management

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1:01He scores. Get more score. Well, we love the class. It looks good to look. Get more. I'm getting a little bit of circle. Happy to be a little shocked. See? Make way. Look. Get more free. Another try. Get more. The plate's winning. Yeah, baby. They score. Get the seat of red hero. Flametock starts now on sports 9, 9, 60, the fan. Brought to you by Mr. Loop plus tires. Here's Pat Steinberg and Logan Gordon. Visit Mr. Loop plus tires for an oil change service or winter tires performed at the speed of life. Rediscover Mr. Loop plus tires. Ready? When you are. What's going on? It is Monday March 2nd. Yes. Welcome to March. We are underway this hour on Flametock with Logan Gordon. My name is Pat Steinberg. On Apple Spotify. Amazon. Seeker. Or wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for being along with us on this Monday.

2:01As a brand new week begins, in fact, as trade deadline. Week begins. We welcome you to Flametock. Hi, logo. Patrick. Flamet are home after a three game trip, which closed out Sunday night. Three two shootout loss in Anaheim. Text lines open for you this hour at 9.6960. Because I think the topic that's going to take up a big part of the first half of this hour anyway. We've got daily flames around table with Wilson in the back half of the hour. But the first half of the hour. I'm going to spend a lot of time on Zane Pirek. Because the flames opted to sit Zane on Sunday in the third game and four nights. And on the second half, the back to back, which was all planned out as we've discussed. And I know the term load management was used by Francis on one of the intermissions. I used it last night on social media as to why the team decided to sit out Zane Pirek.

3:04I think that term has has frustrated some people. But I have news for you. That is exactly what we're talking about. This is the definition of load management is why the flames decided to sit Zane Pirek on Sunday night. This was not a decision made on a whim. This was not a decision made after Saturday. This was a decision that was already preordained going into this road trip. The flames are taking and look, I want to preface all this with. I'm not trying to win an argument or say that you're wrong if you're against it. Or I'm right because I think it's the way it's. I just think it's a really important discussion to have about one of the most important players on the team. So the flames are taking a big picture approach. I feel like three games in four nights puts too much strain on a frame or on a body that they don't believe.

4:12And many others don't believe is physically mature enough to take on the rigors of that type of workload in an NHL regular season. This has nothing to do with him not playing a lot earlier in the season. This has nothing to do with him having a three week break prior. That is immaterial to this conversation the way they're looking at it. This has everything to do with picking spots in the schedule where the flames feel they can sit him. And by doing so, not expose him to the physical load that they feel would open him up to more injuries. Remember, there's a guy that's already been injured twice this season on pretty routine place. One in an NHL game against Chicago and one in a world junior game. So, you know, we're talking about a guy who's already been hurt on a couple of routine, pretty routine hockey plays already this season. It's the nine periods in three days or four days rather than played into this. It's the identical thinking behind Leo Carlson a few years ago.

5:14Remember, the ducks started at load managing Leo Carlson not after 30 games. They started doing it immediately in the month of October, which is the same. So, one of the arguments that I saw a lot on Sunday night, Logan was like, well, he's just had three weeks off and he's barely played this season. He shouldn't be tired. That is nothing to do with it. We're talking about the actual schedule and the compacted nature of three and four with full physicality with teams that are fighting for their playoff lives. All three of them and with an intensity level that has jumped up to an even higher level here in the month of March. And so, Anaheim with the old Carlson was managing Carlson's workload in October, even though that's a fresh part of the season. And you would make the argument that Carlson was fresh then has nothing to do with how fresh a player is. It has to do with the actual strain of that small period of time and what it can do to a guy who's maybe not quite ready to stand up to those the physical toll it takes on a body.

6:25The same way other guys are who are a little bit more mature in their development physically. And that is what we're talking about. It's about the strain placed on the body not how tired or fatigued or fresh the player is and so put it this way. 21 of 26 games. I don't know if that's what it's going to be. It might be more than 21 and I use the 26 number because that's how many games the flames had coming out of the break. So 21 of 26 games being strategic. The flames feel is better than 13 of 26 because he gets hurt on a play. A lot of other guys don't that's what the thinking is here and the strength and conditioning staff the training staff feel like. This is going to lessen the wear and tear by strategically holding them out of games between now and the end of the regular season is going to lessen the probability of him getting injured. Look there are certain like there's a certain portion of injuries that are unavoidable but the flames feel there is a portion of injuries with this player that could be avoidable going down the stretch and that's what they're trying to do.

7:37I just find it hard logo to get mad at that line of thinking because Rick Davis who is the strength and conditioning coach and has a great staff under him and Kent Kabelka who's the head athletic trainer. These guys are like full on experts in their field. I am not I'm not even an expert in this field and broadcasting let alone let alone an expert in the field that we're talking about Kent Kabelka is the number one call for hockey Canada and just was the head athletic therapist for the Olympic team. And Rick Davis turns regular human beings into it don't it's like that we're talking about some of the best in the business and it's just hard for me to be like well I don't agree when all the information is presented to me and presented by people who are experts. So that's kind of what we're talking about right now when we use that Leo Carlson argument how many games Leo Carlson played that season mean nothing what what we're talking about is the strategic decisions of when to hold a player out and when to look at stretches and say here's a time where we feel like him playing and they have they have advanced monitoring systems to do this on top of all of this.

8:51They feel like you know what this might be a time to hold them out because the wear and tear can really wear a guy down in this game so let's hold them out for that game and have them long term it's the same you know what it is and then I'll shut my up. It's like a it's like the conversation about gold tending you could play a goal is 75 times and maybe he gets to a certain level but if you drop that workload to 55 you're probably getting better out of them in the 55 than you would in the 75 and that's kind of the same thing and we're talking about when it comes to Zane correct. Yeah, I also expressed yesterday that I didn't have a problem with the load management approach that Calgary's taking with Zane Perreck mainly because you know to me it's as simple as he's been hurt twice already this season. Why in a year where you're not making the playoffs does he need to play every single night down the stretch and I'm somebody that thinks he needs to play a lot down the stretch which he will.

9:58But not every single game and the reason I say that Pat is because he's not going to reach 60 or 70 games this year the way that the season work before the Olympic break with world juniors with the conditioning stint with the Wranglers it always put a ceiling on how many games he was going to get this season so I don't think there's a number of games down the stretch here. Then I'm going to sit here and go okay well he definitely played enough compared to all he did you know what I mean like there's just not a number if it sits at 26 when the season is done compared to 30. Do I think it has been a massive failure for how they've used Zane Perreck not really at the end of the day I want to see Zane on a consistent basis allowed to make those mistakes which again Sunday wasn't about mistakes. No, it wasn't about that he had a whatever you felt about his game in Los Angeles that didn't apply to this.

11:01There was a lot of I saw it on Twitter too and so my Twitter responses was all this is a husky it's not a husky thing. No, there's a top down organization thing. Yeah, I got that as well. As you mentioned, there's a husky thing. Yeah, husky 960 means husky protection crew whatever like no, it's just the entire organization is behind this and he's not going to get to 50 or 60 games this year. That's that's that's finished. So it's somewhere between 20 and 25 when it's all said and done. There's a ceiling on how many he's going to get to this season because what I just mentioned before so to me that the goal here should be again playing consistently down the stretch allowed to make those mistakes. Well, also trying to get to the end of the year healthy because I think this summer is almost as important to Zane Perekpat as this last stretch of the season is.

12:06He's been from the year he was drafted to last summer when he was dealing with an injury to this year where he's been in with I don't think he's had a good solid off season that hasn't been a whirlwind where he can just put his head down and get ready for an enemy. And get ready for an NHL season. So if he can get to the summer feeling good feeling confident about his game and being 100% healthy so that he can prepare for what's this season's nothing in terms of on. Yes, he's going to play a fair amount down the stretch don't get me wrong, but it's not like you need him in the lineup because you're chasing points. Because you're chasing a win on a Sunday night in Anaheim. The only thing that matters with him is is development. Exactly. And they feel like one and not there's them like it's click another injury is going to derail his development in what has already been a season that has been very.

13:06Exactly with a bunch of swarrows in it. We don't be talking about just a disaster down the stretch if the last two weeks of April we have hockey pet there's no Zane Perek. Because he's hurt because he's hurt. Yeah. And again, like I and I know one of the points on Twitter was that what's the like what's the harm in that and trying to avoid that. Well, and again, like we're not talking about it. He's still going to play a lot like I bet he plays all three games on this homestand for sure. And then I would bet he probably sits out against Washington because that gives him two days in between the next game in New York on Tuesday. And that's kind of the thinking that we're talking about. For for a 25 year old guy who is physically at his maturity like. The wear and tear it's hard on all of these guys don't get me wrong like every single one of these guys this schedule is kicking the crap out of them. And and it is an extreme grind to the end of the season. More so this year than other years because of how compact the schedule has been on either end of the Olympic break.

14:10For Joel Farahbe and Morgan Frost and Matt Coronado these guys are at a point where. A little bit more mature physically so they can stand up to it a little bit more and Zane will get there. But right now the feel is he isn't there and that's okay because humans develop physically at nonlinear rates and not everybody does the does it the same way. I think that's a little bit more mature as old. Like not big redden who by the way I think could also be subject to a little load management just hasn't as of yet. Wouldn't be a surprise of at some point he sits out at some point before the end of the season for similar reasons. But they feel like they feel like he's a little bit in your eyes will even tell you he's a little bit more physically ready to go through it than maybe Zane is and that's okay. Another thing because the thing that's come up a lot to has been well mat face 20 is recently turned 20.

15:1420 years and one he hasn't been subject to the same thing. He also hasn't been hurt twice this season. Exactly. That's why it's different for Zane that it is for Matt Vey because so far early on Matt Vey's body and physical maturity is ahead of Zane's and he's been able to handle the grind a little bit better. It's not a bad thing for either one of them. It's just the reality of the situation. It's why it's not linear so you can't tell me. Oh well look at what New York's doing with Matthew Schaeffer and the flames have a look what they're doing with Zane and you can see where you're going wrong. It's not the same. Again Schaeffer hasn't been hurt twice this season. Or I'm sure the islanders would be pretty damn protective of how much he played down the stretch too. When you go take a look at the way Leo Carlson looked in his rookie season to the way he looks now you understand why the ducks went about their business the way they did. You take a look at the way Schaeffer looks compared to the way Leo Carlson looked then or Zane per rack looks now.

16:18Well yeah you can understand why one guy is able to play night in night out and maybe the other there's a little bit more concern and that's that's okay. Zane's going to hit the gym big time in the off season. It's going to be a tailored plan and just knowing how much Zane wants to make this work. I think he is going to work his ass off in the summertime. We're going to come back doing that and injury and injury. Well said. Look I know we all want him to play. We all want him to turn into the star that so many of us myself included believe he's going to be. But he is going to sit more games between now. I don't know how many but he's going to sit more between now and the end of the season. No we'll give you said that there'll be a number at the end of this when we all sit there and go. He said him X amount of games out of the final 25. And if you had gone back to before the Olympic break and said look I can guarantee you that Zane per rack plays 20 of 25 is just a random.

17:21Yeah number that I've done but he won't get hurt. Would you take that. I know I would I would too. But for some people and not send you're wrong but that's for some people that's been a big. And as I said even on on social on Sunday night like I'm not trying to win an argument I'm just presenting what the actual facts are. And this isn't this isn't a scenario where they don't want him to play. This isn't a scenario where they want to hold him back. This isn't a scenario where they've got range on him or they feel like he made too many mistakes on on Saturday and L.A. In fact one of the things that I think is already in place with this player and will I think even take a step after Friday's trade deadline is I think the ability for young players to make mistakes and learn from those mistakes is going to be far more available. Then it would be for a team that feels like they're going to play off chase after the trade deadline.

18:21We're going to know exactly what this roster looks like after the trade deadline. We're going to know exactly what spots are open. And as we move towards the end of March and into April guys are going to start getting shut down more. There's going to be more injuries at the flames aside. There's just no point in having them linger and they're going to sit guys out. And there will be young more young players from Brestevich to Stronggren. Cole Rushney maybe Abram Weeb. They really want to get Weeb site. There's going to be more young players that come into this lineup. And one of the big things is going to be allowing them to make mistakes because they're not full time NHLers yet and learn from those mistakes. That's not why Zane sat on Saturday. He didn't sit because he made mistakes. He sat because of the schedule. And to me, that's okay. And look, if Zane only plays one of the next three at home, which I don't think is going to be the case, I believe is you'll play these three games on the homestand.

19:21But if he only plays one of three, well then yeah, I'll be a little bit more critical. Because that that wouldn't make any sense to me. But one game the way it's being messaged and the way it's been understood by me and kind of explained to me makes a whole lot more sense. So there we are. And I'm looking forward to seeing how much playing time we see from Zane down the stretch. I think it's going to be a lot and how much development in his game we see between now and the end of the regular season. And hopefully. Ideally that propels him into an offseason where it's all about the physical development side of things. And I think a nice end to the season for Perrek, where to your point, he doesn't get hurt. And thus his offseason doesn't get stunted at all. I didn't get really, really big for him going into next season. That's the biggest thing for me. Like put this player is yeah, play a good chunk down the stretch.

20:23There's no chance at this junction to get you half of a season. So play what keeps you healthy, but still maintains a pretty regular role in the lineup. Get into the offseason 100% healthier as close as you possibly can. So that next year you're you're you're better ready for the grind. Ah, let's get to the text line at nine 69 60 wanted to leave some time for text. Ah, this from Brody patent logo on fine with the load management. So you realize Perrek only played 30 games this year. Think it really exposed the flaws in the hybrid rebuild when this year should have been focused on development and Zane. It should have been starting the season with load management. Instead they got chasing the playoffs and played only the vets and high leverage minutes that should have been going to younger guys. And while Brody I agree with some of that. I think earlier in the year they could have gone down this road and been a little bit more strategic. And I think they were. I think there was definitely some of that that went into some of the usage of Perrek earlier in the year.

21:24But I also think a lot of it or some of it anyway was about like, well, we want to win games and we're not sure. And so I think I agree with some of that that they probably could have been doing this and just letting them play and make those mistakes earlier. But hindsight's 2020. But there's no like this is not a sunk cost situation. Just because they didn't do it prior. Doesn't mean they can't do it now and it can't be important. Yeah, not saying that this was handled. Perfect. I mean, we'll have that conversation. We're all dying. Yeah, geez. We'll have that conversation. I think in the off season and probably, you know, the last couple of weeks of April patent looking back at zane per ex usage early in the season and whether it was the best plan or not. But you can't let that. Change how you want to finish it out. You know what I mean? You can't change it now.

22:24So. But you can still. You can still try to make something out of there between now and the end of the season, right? Yeah. Maybe this is the approach they should have taken from September. But they didn't. So. I mean, and you can be critical of how it was handled prior while still understanding why. Dale says how many more games do you think they sit per rec based on your idea of the load management would be around four or five. Yeah, maybe I mean, I honestly, I don't know. I don't even know if they have a one that like I don't think they have got a plan written in pen. I think they're monitoring this. Day to day and say, OK, there's a time there's a really good opportunity for us to maybe do this. So I don't I don't think logo that is a scenario where. It has been planned out in advance. It's just. Or fully in advance. I think they have some ideas like the other three games and four nights and stuff like that. Exactly. I think those would maybe be times when you could do it. But yeah, I don't think that this is set in stone.

23:26It's just something that they have very much in the forefront of their mind. Yeah, I think there are a couple of. To Dale's text a couple of interesting spots that I think makes sense. Like they've got two more back to backs before it's all said and done. And then there's a couple of stretches down the way where. If he sits out one game, he can get three straight days off the ice or off of game action, excuse me. Yeah. So maybe that makes sense to try to execute it as best as you can. Give it how condensed everything is. This reads the bigger picture regarding Perek is this. The fan base is worried that Perek may be a bust. Yes, he's only 19. Yes, he made it more time. I know it's too soon to say. But if it's clear he's not and was not physically ready for the NHL. Why even put him in NHL games? He was supposed to hit the gym during the Olympic break. How much weight if any did he put on? Because Zane is succeeded in minor and junior purely on his talent, will he commit to the hard work? Perek is a lot to prove because he hasn't shown any glimpses at the NHL level that are confidence inspiring.

24:26I would disagree on that front. And there's been some really impressive flashes. Even in that game against L.A. A couple of really nice offensive forays that I quite liked some sequences I quite liked from Perek. So I don't agree that he hasn't shown any flashes because I believe he absolutely has. Because they couldn't play him other than a two week conditioning loan in the American League. In that at that level, they had to play him in some games. He's in the NHL and junior they felt was just going to exacerbate some bad habits. So they were kind of in a tough spot to begin with. And I'm not saying it has been perfect the entire way. But I think the way they're going to do it post Olympic break like what we're into right now is a really good way of doing it. And I think a way that is really going to help him get pointed at him in a better direction going into the off season. I mean, I would be a hard marker if 15 games into his season as split as they've been. We're telling that we're saying that he hasn't these bust.

25:28Yeah, that that he hasn't had a five point game. So the future outlook for it's 15 games spread over. Going back to September. Yeah. Like that's that's hard to get any momentum going. This says would it not make sense to just keep correct out of the lineup for the rest of the year and begin a strength in conditioning a couple months earlier. He needs 20 pounds before he's NHL ready. I don't think he needs 20 pounds. But and I also think playing is important too. Like there needs to be a balance. And that's why when I say like he's going to play lots like he's going to play lots. It's going to be chunk of games sit one chunk of games sit one. That's kind of what we're talking about here when it comes to correct. And I don't think you need 20 pounds, you know, five six seven pounds can go a long way, especially if it's the right type of weight that's being put on if it's muscle that's being put on and if you're strengthening in the right areas. And that's why I say when you've got guys like Davis and Kabelka and and guys who are employed by professional sports organizations for this specifically.

26:33I think that I think they'll be I think they'll be pretty pretty targeted in how they go about. Perrex off season program. Yeah, I think you have to balance it, right? I think they still needs. You can't just know what the NHL is to understand. And I mean, for him and his own body, right? We're talking so much about how he feels how he feels physically and what that means. I mean, he's got to understand what it's like to take those. Those hits on a nightly basis and to feel what it's like to play a week full of games. All that sort of thing. I think it's important to him. This reads a Zane eligible for the AHL next season answer is yes. And we'll see if that I mean the hope is that we don't see him in the American League again. That would be the hope, but yes, he would be eligible for the American League next year. This says it's not so much that he's getting load managed that I'm concerned with. When he gets in, he only plays like 15 minutes a night. Could be wrong, but he's only played above it 20 minutes once.

27:34I think it's twice. Once the end of last season and then the Toronto game, I believe he's played more than 20 minutes. What else we got here at nine 69 60. Did you ever think that the player management of Zane Perrek doesn't believe the kid is ready? Personally, I believe he needs to grow in the AHL ranks playing with big boys and hopefully playing a lot. Unfortunately, this year, he can't go there, but don't you believe that's where he would be his development and confidence would grow there. From my point of view, and others, he's just not ready. Let's not destroy him for a possible 20 odd NHL games. Perrek isn't Matthew Shaper right now. I think like knowing the way this season is gone, probably a decent chance. Perrek would have spent some time in the American League if you was eligible, isn't that spare? Yeah, I think so. Maybe he still goes to world juniors, but maybe, you know, he starts in the NHL.

28:34Maybe plays November and December in the American League goes to world. Yeah. Like, I think they would have used that option if it was available to them. Unfortunately, it just wasn't available to him. Yeah, my guess is that I think he would have. Perrek should have been sent back to the O.A. Channel at the end of this season. They proved to be a lost year of development from lack of playing meaningful minutes. The fact we're talking load management on 19 year olds means they weren't ready for the show that comes from Derek in Tuscany. I also understand the reasoning why they didn't go back to Saginaw because they felt like there would be a lot of bad. There would have been, it would have been a very unchecked situation. Hands off steering wheel sort of thing. He's not playing against the type of competition. Like he's beyond the Ontario league. He is beyond playing in junior hockey, especially like, you know, world juniors is one thing. But O.H.L. hockey, he's beyond that. And I think that their fear was some bad habits would start to set in.

29:38If he did that. What else we got here at 916 960 Ben says also doesn't heard to get Paul a few games before the deadline. But buyers get a good look at him in action, which I think is a byproduct of this conversation. Not the worst thing either. Jim says I don't see the issue with Perrex ice time. I think the flames know best. And especially after their poor management of San Benets early portion of his career, I like to think they've learned from that. I think a big part of it is Zayn's mental outlook. And if he's consistently failing out there, that can be harmful. And they're doing it right. That comes from Jim. This says give me more Paul until he's gone. What else we got here at 916 960. Mitch says you can't be team tank and impatient at the same time. If you want the flames to sell and play the young guys, you get your wish. Now sit back and enjoy the ride. There you go. 916 960 on the text line. It is a Monday edition of flames talk. It's Pat Steinberg and Logan Gordon along with you.

30:39As we continue along on this Monday edition of the program. The trade deadline is coming Friday. And we will have wall to wall trade deadline coverage for you. Here on sportsnet 960 the fan. We got three great sponsors for Friday's wall to wall coverage, including our friends at Eastside Dodge. Hurry into Eastside Dodge or visit Eastside Dodge.com to check out this month's incredible specials. And tell them Lanny sent you. Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board. But then all you can do is hope the right person comes along. Which is why you should try Zippercrooter for free. At zippercrooter.com slash zip. Zippercrooter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. It finds them for you. It's powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of hay, Zippercrooter finds you what you're looking for.

31:42The needle in the haystack. See why four out of five employers who post a job on Zippercrooter get a quality candidate within the first day. Zippercrooter, the smartest way to hire. And right now you can try Zippercrooter for free. That's right. Free at zippercrooter.com slash zip. That zippercrooter.com slash zip. Zippercrooter.com slash zip. Talking your team right now. Flamestock is on sports net 960 the fan. Flamestock's brought to you by Mr. Loub plus tires. Visit Mr. Loub plus tires for an oil change. Service or winter tires performed at the speed of life. Rediscover Mr. Loub plus tires. Ready when you are happy Monday. It is Pat Steinberg and Logan Gordon along with you on this hour of Flamestock. And it's time now to say hello to Derek Willes as well. Voice of the flames. It's time for a Monday edition of the daily flames. Roundtable brought to you by Mr. Sadie's bins.

32:43Country hills. The fastest growing segment of vehicles they sell is electric. In form buyers are coming to see. Perhaps you should discover why minutes from the Calgary airport. Flames are back home after a three game road trip that wrapped up Sunday. With a three two shootout loss in Anaheim. And the last play of that game. Had wasn't the game on his stick. But I might be grinning at an opportunity to extend the shootout. And did everything right. That was perfect. He the only thing that he didn't do perfect. He needed to go like an inch one way or the other. But he had the goalie beat. It was really, really deceptive move. And gridden just hit the post. And that's a good way to go into the first question I've got for you, Gents. And that is what what do we think of of Mott Bay gridden's three games coming out of the Olympic break. He's one of the only guys or the only guy who was down there playing American League action during the break. And then rejoin the flames.

33:44How do we feel about Mott Bay gridden's restart to the NHL season? Yeah, right. Pat, an inch to the right. And that shootout continues last night. And I think it says a lot about how far Mott Bay gridden has come that Ryan Haska would put him in a position to extend the shootout. The flames needed a goal to keep that game going. And it was Mott Bay gridden on his 20th birthday. As the flames third shooter. Again, not with the game on a stick, but with an opportunity to extend the game last night. And yeah, an inch or even a half an inch to the right and that shootout probably continues. But even though Mott Bay gridden didn't have a point in that road trip, I don't think that that's that really tells much of a story because I thought he was dangerous in all three games. If I'm not mistaken, his ice time was around 14 minutes against the shark 17 minutes against the Kings. And then I think it was about 16 minutes. Last night in that game against the ducks, but a guy who pretty consistently is a threat offensively and a guy who I think is actually physically pretty mature for a guy who just turned 20 years old yesterday.

34:54And I heard you guys talking about Zane Barack a little bit earlier and he's actually a little bit older than that they gridden, but physically for me. Gridden is more mature than perack at this point in time and everybody grows at different rates and matures at different rates and that's OK. Zane will get there and Matt Vay just got there a little bit quicker than him in my opinion. He's got a good frame. He's still going to add some muscle and I think he's already done a good job using that frame to do some of the things that we saw Sam Hanzek do to start his second season. And that uses size uses reach to protect pox to keep it in the offensive zone, but he has created a lot offensively for the flames. And you know, for me, he's probably their their second best pro prospect right now behind Zane perack, but at this point in time, I think he's actually a more impactful NHL player. Yeah, I was I was really impressed. Pat, I said it to you, I think maybe on air and off the air watching the game with you on Sunday.

36:01I think the only thing that hasn't happened for Matt Vay has been the point. That's that's really all I think that's been missing from his game is just a little bit of finish and you know, he makes a great pass to Coronado, which kind of handcuffed him a little bit, but easily could have resulted in a primary assist. Should have been a goal. It should be a problem. Probably, you know, and he's just he's around it. He's so smart with the puck offensively. He makes his teammates better. He gets in the right spots. I really didn't have much to dislike from Matt Vay's game. I thought he's looked remarkably comfortable. I thought there was going to be an increased top nine role for him when we found out about Jonathan Hubertos injury at the just before the beginning of the Olympic break there guys. I think he's handled it and stride like I really, you know, it's not a long analysis, Pat, but he's doing all the right things. I just think it's a matter of time before he has one of those games or a stretch of games where he's on the score sheet every single night because you can't keep doing the things that he's doing and not eventually have the points come.

37:09It's really been the only thing that's missed from his game and it's not even entirely on him that that hasn't happened. He's been he's been impressive. I mean, you mentioned the pass on the power play to Coronado, which should have been a goal. A couple of times on the power play, just even some of his stop and start ability and his deceptiveness. One time the he did that on an entry where you're like, oh, that's they they need more of that to enter the zone. We know how generally pedestrian this power play has been this year. And so a little bit more deceptiveness, a little bit more slipperiness. I think absolutely could go a long way going forward and having gridden's got that. And another time he on an entry, the pass at him on the left side and he stopped up and and by doing so, all of a sudden opened up like two or three more feet of space and allowed the flames to really get into their power play set. And you're just like, okay, subtle things like that. He doesn't and a lot of other guys on this team don't do those things.

38:12And I so I just what we've seen from him offensively. I think I think it's going to start to pop with some points as well guys. As as logo said, will see the one thing that we haven't seen are the counting numbers to go along with how I think impactful he's been offensively in these three games. And if he keeps doing it, it's going to come. If he keeps doing those things, those numbers are going to start to pop for him. And I think they've got themselves look, I still go back to October when they sent him down. And I thought they could have kept them up now going to the American League for a 19 year old at the time now a 20 year old. Never a bad thing. And so turn it into an all star. Exactly. He went down there and was there one of their best players and went to the AHL all star game. So never a bad thing, but it here's here's the one thing that is beyond a shadow of a doubt for me now is like this is the league he belongs in. He's an NHLer and as he just continues to get more and more comfortable playing in the NHL.

39:15I think those numbers are going to start to come even even before the end of this season. And one of the things that it strikes me most about mad pay gridden is I think he's still a pretty raw player. I mean, you only spent one season playing major junior hockey and the Quebec major junior hockey league spent a couple of years in the USHL before that. But this is his first pro season and a kid who just turned 20 yesterday. And I already think that physically he's pretty mature for a guy his age. And even the way he plays the game, fellas, we've talked a lot about what mad pay gridden has done with the puck on his thick. And he's been a dynamic offensive player a guy who's creating chances for a team that at times has a tough time doing that. But he's pretty good without it, too, don't you think? Yeah, I don't think he's been a liability by any stretch. No, especially for a guy that age, it's not always easy to do, right? So yeah, we can't get out there for offensive shifts if your coach doesn't trust you. And I think the other thing guys is like I really I really wonder about the combination of him and Morgan Frost even going into next year.

40:22I mean, there's a pretty slippery player in Frost in terms of the way that he he's able to distribute the puck and he's got some really nice skill. As much as I think Frost has got a pretty deceptive and effective shot, it's just not something he uses a lot. So a guy who is more prone to being a playmaker and distributing the puck. A guy like gridden who will shoot it and has no qualms about doing that. I think it could be a really good fit as well. Yeah, and Ryan Haska has called Morgan Frost his second best passer or second best playmaker behind Jonathan Hubert. Oh, so you want to ideally at least on paper have a guy like that playing with a guy who can shoot it. And that they gridden isn't Matt Coronado or maybe even eager to share in Govich and got to see his vintage shot last night. But he isn't afraid to shoot it and the other thing that I had a lot of fun watching last night. I'm Dr. Span's probably had more fun watching it than I did, but just how confident some of these first round picks are early in their career.

41:26And we saw it in the shootout and even Matt vague gridden's shootout attempt. Now comes in calm cool and collected weaves his way into the offensive zone. Glides to the right side of the ice come back comes back in makes a nice move takes a shot that hits the goal post. So kind of to fund to watch a flames player with as much upside as Matt vague gridden. And I think you guys are right that the chances are there and that's exciting. And I think sooner or later if he continues to play the way he's been playing, the points will start to fall. Maybe half an inch to the other side. He beat Dostalk clean. That was a great shot. Yeah, yeah, it was right there for him. Derek Wills Logan Gordon, Pat Steinberg daily flames rate round table on this Monday edition of the program. Look, I almost will see just in honor of our departed brother Wes Gilbertson departed the show. Not not this earth, but in honor of Wes Gilbertson. I, yeah, I, he did depart the country. He wasn't Japan for a while, but he's back now.

42:32I was going to say, how should the flames use their goal tenders, but that would have been just as a trolling move. But I did want to talk a little bit about Devon Cooley because he was spectacular again against the ducks and made that great stop on Santa. In the shootout. I know he got beat twice in the shootout, but those are as good a couple shootout moves you're going to find. And, and I just felt like for a guy who hadn't played in almost a month, his last start was February 4th. I thought it was another, you know, very prototypical Devon Cooley game. Guys, we all know the numbers. We all know the save percentage is on top of the league for qualified goalies. It went up last night after his performance. We all know where he sits in terms of goals saved above expected. All those types of things and yet it still feels like that maybe we aren't giving enough credit to just how good and how cool a story this has been for Cooley this year. Guys, how many how many eyes do we think Devon Cooley has opened, whether it be in this city and this organization or even around the league this year?

43:38Well, lots. I mean mine for sure because I was not at all comfortable with the flames back up gold tender coming out of training cap in the preseason because Devon Cooley who. I'm not sure if he was or wasn't the front runner for the job because he had such a tough back half of the season after a really strong start with the Calgary Wranglers last year with an AHL All Star. And then you suffered that concussion and didn't look like the same guy in the back half of the season and then really struggles during the preseason and kind of wins the job because well flames had to fix somebody to back up dust and wolf. So it wound up being him but really from his first start as a member of the flames. He has given them a chance to win almost every single game that he's played in. And yeah, fourth in the NHL and goals against average leads the league in safe percentage and doing that playing under a lot of pressure because the flames again this season are a team that in a lot of games has struggled to score more than two goals.

44:44And we know the record when they get four they won 50 in a row but you know getting the free has been a challenge on some nights and that's put a lot of pressure on both Devon Cooley and Dustin Wolf. And then the other thing that has impressed me about Devon Cooley when I was reminded of it again last night not all players and not all goal tenders can be at their best if they're not playing regularly. And it's like I would say more guys than not have to be playing regularly to be playing at their top level well Devon Cooley hadn't played in 25 days his last game was the last game the flames played before the Olympic break. And it was really good in that game a 4-3 victory over the orders in the Battle of Alberta back on February 4th. Yeah, I had to wait 25 games to get another start and I thought he was outstanding against the docks in the eye and all they scored two on three shots in the shootout but those moves were absolutely ridiculous. And for example, Mason McTavish is now a perfect five for five and shootouts this season.

45:49The docks have the most shootout wins and the fewest shootout losses in the league seven wins no losses. They've been one of the top two teams in overtime and shootouts this season so when that game got to overtime I knew they probably had a little bit better chance to win it based on their track record this season than the flames. But Devon Cooley did a really good job during three on three overtime and you got beat by a couple of really skilled guys in the shootout and it's not something that I hold against them. But the fact that he's been able to give the flames a chance to win almost every single game that he's played in and the fact that he's been able to do that despite the fact that Dustin Wolf has clearly still been this team's number one goal tender really impressive. And you know, a feather in Devon Cooley's cap for me guys is that Dustin Cooley was an absolute workhorse and he's still amongst the league leaders in games played but it's been a way more even split over the last couple of months. So you know, Devon Cooley, I think is slowly but surely earned the trust of his teammates and of his coaches and of the management group and he's earned those cards and I don't think it's going to be a 50 50 split down the stretch but wouldn't shock me if it's something like 60 40 or 65.

47:03Yeah, I think he's changed. I mean, maybe the entire outlook of the tandem in the sense of I, you know, going back to September, you know, Derek, you played it out there. I don't think he won the job as backup. He kind of got the default spot. Maybe because he was in the organization longer than I even prostitop that that point of been the only thing that got him there, but that didn't matter. The noise around Dustin getting the starts early in the year didn't matter. He just continued to plug away and he's your right. He's giving them a chance to win every single night that he's been out there. I also think he's in a very important factor for me guys is formed a really good tandem with Dustin and they're both North California guys, but I think that relationship is important. Right. If you're Dustin wolf, I really think there's a chance that, you know, as a team's number one gold tender, you might not love how much Devin coolies played and how often that he's gotten some of the starts here, but I think because Devon's the sort of affable guy that he is, he's really on the surface all times, right.

48:20He talked about it when he signed his extension in Calgary that he wants to support Dustin wolf and he's okay being a tandem guy and he wants Dustin to know that he's in his corner. He doesn't have to worry about it because he's not out here just trying to steal every single start he can from Dustin wolf. I think that's important for a young gold tender to have that kind of backing and I don't think that's guaranteed with every backup partner that an option that the Calgary flames could have presented. It's all good news. I mean, aside from the back half of last year in the American Hockey League, when Devon was playing through, you know, some concussion issues and, you know, maybe probably should have been sitting out some games and it really affected his performance. I mean, he's been a stud at every stop here for the Calgary flames and it's a credit to the gold tending group that Calgary has. It's also a credit to Devon for putting in the work and willing to learn and change up maybe what he knew coming into his time in Calgary.

49:25It's nice that I think you don't have to worry about the backup load right now and that you can easily go to Devon Cooley and, you know, and a stretch like this year guys where points aren't necessarily the most important thing. You don't have to stretch a Dustin wolf late into the season because again, as well as he put it, Devon Cooley's earned where he is right now. Well, yeah, I mean, it just, it remains crazy to me that one of the big early season stories was the lack of confidence that the flames had in the position and they felt forced to finally fell. Yeah, I mean, it was not, it was not a good preseason. It absolutely wasn't. And they felt forced to play wolf three games and four days to start the season. It's kind of stunning. His preseason was that bad looking back on and he's he's talked about that. He's talked about how his head was not in the right place and how he really had a mental shift after he won the job and became the backup. And it showed it showed that very first game in Salt Lake City with the flames ended up losing.

50:31But Cooley put forward a really, really positive performance. It's just, it's crazy to think that we're talking about the number one goalie in the NHL in goal saved above expected per 60 minutes over at money puck and the number one goalie in raw safe percentage for qualified goalies in the league. It's quite the swing from where the conversation was in October and, you know, he's earned himself a contract. And I think what logo says is really important. Like the relationship between the two guys is important because I think it sets the flames up for the next couple of years with a really nice tandem. And it also means. Look, even if Cooley isn't the number one safe percentage in the NHL next year, I think what it's done is give the flames confidence. There's a guy they can use on a regular basis. And they can use as a regular, you know, one B or number two goalie and. I think managing wolf's workload is going to be a valid conversation every single year and avoiding not overworking or avoiding overworking rather dust and wolf is going to be a conversation every single year.

51:41So if you can have a guy like Cooley, who you're confident in and who continues to give the coaching staff confidence and that continues to grow. Well, then maybe we can see less, less of a, I don't know, less of a proximity to wanting to always got to go to wolf, always go to got we've got to go to wolf. This way I feel like maybe you can avoid overworking him as early as next season. You guys have talked about how important it is that Dustin and Devon have a good relationship and it's interesting for me because personality wise, they're pretty much polar opposites. I mean, Dustin wolf is really well spoken, but very cerebral. Devon Cooley, every time he talks to the media, it looks like he just drank a box of energy drinks. And sometimes he says stop you probably shouldn't say, but he's been very entertaining if, if nothing else. So I do think that that's really important, especially when you're talking about your franchise gold tender being such a young guy.

52:42Something I've been thinking about of late is I wonder what the success that Devon Cooley has had this season and some of the stories that have been told about one of the reasons why he's maybe had that success as use of the VR headset. I'm wondering how many goalies around the NHL or maybe even at lower levels are going to follow in his footsteps and start using that as a tool to work on their games. So maybe you'll be kind of a, the front lines as far as that is concerned. And then the other thing I'm watching moving forward as we head into the final, what is it 23 games of the regular season is how they use them not only the number of starts that Dustin and Devon get, but who gets what starts. And when I say that the reason I've been thinking about it is because quite often when the flames have an optional morning skate and Devon's getting the start that night and he could be out there in the ice with his teammates. He doesn't skate. He chooses not to skate and instead he just works for that VR headset. So my guess is with the success he's had and the fact that the flames won't have morning skates going into the second half of a back to back and you know and some other situations as well.

53:51I'm guessing Devon is going to get those starts. He's had so much success when he hasn't been on the ice in the morning going out there and playing a good game at night. So just something to keep an eye on is we had down the stretch here for sure. And we will see who gets the start Tuesday when the flames open up a three game homestand against the Dallas stars. We will see what the dome on Tuesday for the roundtable will see for now. Have a wonderful rest of your Monday. Thank you, sir. Okay, guys. Have a good night. He is Derek Willes. He's Logan Gordon. My name is Pat Steinberg. There's your daily flames roundtable brought to you by Mercedes Bans Country Hills. The fastest growing segment of vehicles. They sell is electric informed buyers are coming to see perhaps you should discover why minutes from the Calgary airport as we move towards the end of this hour on flames talk at Steinberg and Logan Gordon along with you and hey coming out of a break. You just kind of want to get your feet wet and and not not play poorly. And that's what we did on flames talk best bets last week.

54:51And we didn't we didn't excel, but we didn't fail. We went 500 last week on three days of best bets. And so we are now sitting at 56 and 36 on the season last week, three and three. We missed on the weekend Clayton Keller going over two and a half shots while we did hit on the flames and kings going under five and a half goals. Three and three to end the week. Here's what I got from Monday as it's time now for flames talk best bets brought to you by the heating ninja is your furnace ready to face the freeze stay warm and cozy all winter with the heating ninja visit the heating ninja dot com. So Monday, I've got Seth Jarvis of the hurricanes over two and a half shots as they take on Seattle. Look Jarvis is low key. One of the leagues best shot volume guys and Seattle is not low key. One of the teams that bleed shots and attempts worst in the league. So I'm going to take Jarvis over two and a half shots versus Seattle. That's paying minus 179 over at play Alberta.

55:55Also going to take the Maple Leafs on the money line at home to Philadelphia on Monday night. That's paying minus 133. Look the flames. The Leafs have got to win at some point. I disagree with you on that. It is a nightmare for them coming just when when you start hearing things like Craig Baroube might be getting fired. Radchair Living's tenure might be coming to an end all those types of things. When you start hearing that. I feel like a lot of times you get a win when those things really start to swirl. So well, you know what Pat? I've always said that's about the Maple Leafs when the times are tough. And I need a team to step up in a big moment. I always pick the Toronto Maple Leafs. We are not here to troll. So I'm going to take the Maple Leafs on the money line at minus 133. And Seth Jarvis over two and a half shots versus Seattle. Those are your flames stock best bets to wrap up the hour cam. Hughes Taylor Dingman are outstanding producers this hour and flames stock best bets brought to you by the heating ninja is your furnace ready to face the freeze.

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