TCC Podcast #353: Stepping into the Spotlight with Lindsay Hyatt

The people and stuff we mentioned on the  show:
The Accelerator waitlist
The Copywriter Think Tank
Kira’s website
Rob’s website
Lindsay’s website
The Copywriter Club Facebook Group
The Copywriter Underground
Free month of Brain.FM
AI for Creative Entrepreneurs Podcast

Full Transcript:

Rob Marsh:  There’s a saying that gets thrown around occasionally in the business world that goes something like this: We overestimate what we can get done in a day and we underestimate what we can accomplish in a year, which is probably why we often feel like we don’t get much done as we work through our days. But when we look back to where we were last year or the year before, we are amazed at some of the changes that we’ve seen and experienced. Hi, this is Rob Marsh.

Kira Hug:  And I’m Kira Hug.

Rob Marsh:  And we are the founders and hosts of The Copywriter Club Podcast. Our guest for today’s episode is copywriter and copy coach Lindsay Hyatt. Over the past two years, Lindsay has experienced some big changes in her business. As we chatted with her, she shared a few of the things that she’s done that made all of the difference: activities like showing up regularly on social media, creating personal connections with their network, and exploring new opportunities for serving her clients. They’re small things, but they produce really big results. In short, she puts in the reps, so stick around to hear what she has to share about her business.

Kira Hug: But first, this episode is sponsored by The Copywriter Accelerator, which is our signature business building program that we are running in the fall for four months in the fall. And Lindsay actually is an alumni member of that program, so she’ll speak to a little bit of that program and the benefits, and you can hear from this conversation how it’s helped her in her business. If you have any interest in learning more about that program and the eight-part framework we work through in that program that will help build the foundation of your business, you can learn more at our wait list page, which is at thecopywriterclub.com/accelerator-waitlist. We’ll link to it in the show notes so you can jump over there and get your name on the list if you want to explore that program with us this fall. Let’s kick off our episode with Lindsay Hyatt.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Well, I have a winding road, but it started with copywriting, which I feel like not many copywriters say. So I started as a copywriter in radio, which was my first job out of college, and I wrote radio commercials for four different stations, all completely different genres. So that was the beginning of learning about brand voice for me. And I love that. And then from there I kind of got deeper into marketing as a whole and learning about creating campaigns and launching campaigns for different industries. So at the time I was actually in healthcare marketing, which is a whole different game. I really love the creativity part of it, but what I didn’t love right off the bat was feeling like I didn’t know what I was doing, and I didn’t really have a lot of guidance in the first few jobs that I had.

So I actually had, unfortunately, some bad work environment experiences that really molded the early parts of my career in marketing and it made me run in the other direction. So I actually took a break from marketing to pursue the other nagging interests that I had, which was education. And I had moved to Michigan with my now husband who’s from there. And while I was there, I went to the University of Michigan to get my graduate degree in education, and I became a fifth grade teacher, which seems completely out of the blue, but it was kind of one of those things that I thought I could go in this direction or I could go in that direction, and I went in the direction of the creative route. So this kind of gave me a chance to explore what does life look like as an educator.

I loved working with the kids. Fifth graders are super weird, but really cute still. It’s a really good combination. But after a few years of doing that, the market for finding a great job in education and at the elementary level was difficult. So I had already started to think like, “Oh, I don’t know if I want to continue on this route, clawing my way into a great public school classroom. Maybe in five to seven years time I was already feeling that draw to get back to my creative roots.” So actually, while I was teaching in Michigan, I launched a blog that kind of became my touchstone to keeping that creative flow alive. I called it The Daily Sampler, and I called it that because I wanted to set the stage for myself to write every single day, which was quite the task.

But for the first year, I wrote in that blog every day and I wrote about nothing important. I didn’t write about politics or education. I wrote about the Oscars. I wrote about movies and music and cocktails, just anything that was fun for me. And it actually had a pretty good following. It was a way for me to keep in touch with my friends and family and network back in Buffalo, New York where I’m from. And it also opened up doors for me to meet people all over the world. Fun, quick story: I was actually in Italy for a small amount of time with my husband who was doing archeology. That’s a long story. But people came up to me at a cafe and asked if I was the writer of The Daily Sampler because I was writing about my time in Italy. So it was a really fun time and it allowed me to improve my writing skills and keep that creative flow going even when I was working hard with kids and doing the educator thing.

So eventually I moved back home to Buffalo and I jumped back into marketing. I had a few more jobs where I felt like there was another work environment situation that was really tough, and it really started to have me question everything that I thought about working in corporate America. Like, is this all there is? Is it just hopefully you do work you’re really passionate about and hopefully the people are nice and hopefully you are look forward to work, and if not, you just kind of get through it? And I just thought, this can’t be it. I started to think about what if I had my own business, but I just never saw how. I just never saw that it could be a reality. I don’t have entrepreneurs in my life that I could pull from experience. So I’ve kept going and I thought maybe someday. Maybe when I’ve paid my dues and maybe when I’m in my mid-career and things feel more stable, I will explore that.

So fast-forward to the pandemic, I was about to have my second daughter and I told my husband, “I don’t want to go back to this job that I’m at. It just does nothing for me. It’s not meeting any kind of creative expectations that I had, and I just want to see if this could be a possibility. Or I’ll have to get another job when I returned from maternity leave.” I had my daughter, and two weeks later, the world shut down. And because of that, it shifted everything for us. My husband lost his job during that time, I was on maternity leave, so we were freaking out a little bit.

But that is when I started to freelance again on the side of my nine-to-five once I returned from maternity leave and I started writing. And I was immediately transported back to why I love to do it, how good it felt, how good it felt just to be creative. At the time I was writing for clients in HVAC systems. It wasn’t really juicy, interesting stuff. I was just thrilled to be writing again and to work directly with a client and feel like I was able to help them directly.

So after some time I realized I might be able to match my salary if I can focus on it. I had two retainer clients at the time. If I could just bring on one more, if I had the time to do that, because I was working nights and weekends on the side of my nine-to-five, I think I could do this. We worked it out, convinced the husband, he’s been very supportive ever since, and I made the leap in 2021. I launched my business Lindsay Hyatt Co. full-time. And within a month or two, I matched my salary and I thought, “Why didn’t I do this earlier?” I mean, it was a winding road to get there, but I’m so grateful that life shifted the way it did. Though it was very hard for so many reasons during that time, it brought me to this opportunity today where I can work directly with clients and really dig in deep with them and see how I can help their business to flourish. And that has been so rewarding.

Rob Marsh:  All right. So I have about eight questions that come out of different times along the timeline. Unfortunately, I have to share the questions with Kira, so I’m only going to ask one of them right now. But I want to go all the way back to writing for radio. Something we actually haven’t even talked about on the podcast, I can’t remember talk… Maybe we did with Luke Sullivan briefly. But, I know it’s your first job, so you’re not necessarily a seasoned copywriter, but when writing for radio, you don’t have any visuals. So talk about that process and what you did as far as communicating the offers to the companies, that stuff, in such a unique medium.

Lindsay Hyatt:  So I worked very closely with the sales team in radio, and they were the liaisons between the clients and myself. So I was very lucky to have a great sales team that knew their clients very well, most of them were repeat customers of theirs and of ours, and were able to tell me about their business. They spend a lot of time getting to know them. And then of course, if there were specific promotions, everything would be laid out in a brief for me.

It also helps that being in Buffalo, it’s a pretty small town, so I’m pretty familiar with a lot of the businesses that we worked with and kind of knew their brand and had heard their radio spots and saw their spots on TV and kind of had an idea of what their voice would be like. And then of course, also knowing the information for each radio station and who the audience was. So we had everything from urban to country to easy listening. So these were all completely different ages and demographics. And then being able to pull those together to write a 32nd spot or a 62nd spot. So working with the sales team was very collaborative, and lucky for me, it also gave me a background in sales and learning how all of that worked together seamlessly with the creative.

Kira Hug:  So Lindsay, as I hear your story, it seems like you have this intuitive hit where you know, “Okay, I got to go to the next thing,” or, “I gotta figure this out.” You said this can’t be it. So I’m just wondering, how do you make those decisions around when to pivot? How do you know if it’s a good decision or it’s time to make that leap?

Lindsay Hyatt:  That has definitely grown for me over time. I think as I’ve experienced so many different things and as I’ve gotten older and hopefully a little wiser, I’ve learned to trust myself more than I probably did in my twenties when I was starting out. I always have a sense of frustration when I feel like I know that there’s something else coming. An example would be my last nine-to-five job. When I took that position, I was really happy to. The company I was working with at the time was having a lot of troubles and I didn’t know how much longer they were going to be around, so I knew I needed to jump.

But I knew that the position that was being offered to me was not something that I was interested in doing, but I didn’t listen to my gut then. I was motivated by some fear and like, “Oh my gosh, I have to keep a job so I can provide for my family.” And I knew on day two of that new job that it was not the right place for me, and I didn’t listen to my instinct. So in the last couple of years, I’ve gotten very good at not ignoring that and trusting that I can listen to that. And also, nothing is permanent. If I make a decision and it’s the wrong one, which I don’t think there’s really such a thing as the wrong decision, nothing is permanent. I can change gears or I can get a new job or I can shift and pivot. So I’ve gotten more comfortable with that over time.

Rob Marsh: I also want to ask about your daily writing habit. When you were blogging, that’s not an easy thing to do. It’s not an easy thing to hit publish every single day. I actually did a quick search for your blog and was a little bit disappointed it’s not out there anymore.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I know.

Rob Marsh:  Or at least not anywhere I can find it. But tell us about that. How did you structure your time so that you knew you were sitting down to write? Or was it just kind of as it came? Some nights, if 10 o’clock rolls around, you’re in a panic because you haven’t posted anything yet. Talk through that whole habit.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I was craving creative writing so badly at that point. I also didn’t have much of a social life at the time, so that helped. But I treated it almost like a second job. I took it very seriously. I made a commitment to myself to do this, and actually I almost forgot about this, but the reason was not just to have a daily writing habit, but I had applied for some jobs to get out of education and get back into the creative part. And I had been turned down because I didn’t have enough of a portfolio of writing at the time, because it had been so long. And I thought, I just need to start doing this again.

So I was really committed to myself. I would wake up in the morning and go throughout my day. I’m sitting in our class with my fifth grade class and thinking, “Oh, that’s a great idea for a blog post.” And I would jot a little note down. I was always thinking about looking for inspiration, whether it’s something I heard on the radio or on TV or in my classroom or something funny someone said to me. I was also very attuned to pop culture, which was really what the whole blog was about. So I could hear something silly about Taylor Swift and I’m going to talk about that tonight in the blog. So I’d kind of made a note for myself and I looked forward to doing it, so I really enjoyed it.

Kira Hug:  I mean, I didn’t realize that you took off during the pandemic and also I didn’t realize that you had your baby during the pandemic. I’m wondering what helped you take off so quickly, because I mean, you mentioned you matched your salary by 2021.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah.

Rob Marsh:  In a month and a half, two months, that’s nuts.

Kira Hug:  What were you doing during that time?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. I was so fortunate because I know most companies, most businesses don’t start off like that when you’re starting from scratch. But once I knew this was a move I was going to make, I started to plant seeds and I would reach out to people I trusted in my network. And I’m talking to the whole network. I’m talking to people I used to work for, people I interviewed with, friends, family, anyone. I pulled the pride thing and I threw it away, like I’m just going to put myself out there. And I started emailing people and sending messages on social if I had a relationship with them and said, “This summer I’m launching my business full time. This is what I’ll be offering. I would love your support. If you need this kind of service for copywriting or if you know anybody else that does, I would love to talk with them.”

I just kind of put myself out there and I started planting the seeds as soon as I knew. And that made it so by the time I launched on June 1st officially, I hit the ground running. I had the two retainer clients and I already had some irons in the fire that were ready to start burning. So that’s how I was fortunate enough to secure my next client pretty quickly.

Rob Marsh:  So I want to dive a little bit deeper into this because it’s one thing to say I was putting myself out there, but let’s talk about specifically what did you do. Because I think a lot of people hear that and they’re like, “Well yeah, I’m putting myself out there. I posted on Instagram a couple of times, or I updated my LinkedIn profile,” whatever. Did you go through your calendar or your Rolodex, identify people to reach out to? Did you structure your times that you were doing it? Let’s talk about the specifics.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I made a list of people, like I said, everybody I could think of. I went through my LinkedIn, just kind of behind the scenes who I’m connected with. I went through old emails of people that I had interviewed with and hit it off with. I started connecting with people, asking people to have coffee with me. At the time, of course, we were all quarantined at home, so it was actually quite easy to say, “Hey, do you want to have coffee over Zoom?” People were looking to connect with people in general. So not even any kind of agenda, but just to say like, “Hey, this is what I’m doing, what are you up to? How can I support you?” So for me, it was always really about having conversations with people and just not being afraid to introduce myself or reconnect with somebody from my past.

I’m a big, big believer in personal brand, and so social media was always part of the game for me. I started a brand new Instagram feed from my business, started it from zero. I did all the things on LinkedIn. Once I launched, I changed my title and all of that. But I am pretty committed to showing up on social media as myself and putting content out there that I am inspired by, that I think could inspire others, and just blatantly sharing what I do. So people know, because most of the time people aren’t paying attention and you gotta keep coming back and coming back. So between social media, putting content out that supported my new business, and also just having good old-fashioned conversations with people, that was really what got me started.

Kira Hug:  Let’s talk more about building a personal brand because that is something that you’ve done really well and I think that works well today when we are pivoting more frequently. Your personal brand, you carry that with you no matter what. So what are some ways we could think about building our personal brand, strengthening that? What is working for you today or what have you seen work for others?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. The word authenticity gets thrown around so much to the point where it’s kind of annoying now, but sometimes that’s just the best word to use. I just think that if you’re comfortable enough just being you. Whether that is showing up in your pajamas and sharing a post or a story on Instagram or having a whole content calendar of your thoughts, your inspirations, things you’ve learned that you think would be helpful to people in your audience, I think that it’s really important to just follow through on that.

So as you’re building your personal brand, you have to look at who you are as a person and who you want to bring to your business. So of course you want to examine your values, what you feel comfortable sharing. Is there something that is an important part of your own brand voice and tone that’s going to be part of your persona, if you will? I know a lot of copywriters are introverts, and funny enough, I don’t consider myself an extrovert at all. I do not. But I’ve gotten to the point where I just don’t care what people think about it. And it took me a while to get there because in the beginning I’m like, “Oh my gosh, my aunt’s following me. I don’t want her to see this.” But then I realized this isn’t for her. She can follow if she wants, but this is not a message for her. It’s for people that I want to connect with. So it’s really about practice and deciding your values, deciding how you want to show up and how you feel comfortable showing up, and then just putting the reps in.

Rob Marsh:  I don’t hang out a lot on Instagram, but every time I open it up, there’s Lindsay. You are there a lot. So I’d love to just talk a little bit deeper. This might tie back into what you were doing with the blog because it feels, to me, like you’ll show up and talk about almost anything. Usually it’s marketing related, but there’s a lot of other personal stuff in there too. Talk about your philosophy when it comes to Instagram, how often you post, why you do the things that you do on Instagram and the impact that it has on your business.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. Stories is probably my favorite place to be. And the reason is because I really feel like I’m having a conversation with people. Very often, it is a back and forth where people will respond to me in my DMs based on something I said earlier in the day. And I usually find that when I’m sharing something more personal, that’s really when people want to connect because they relate to it. So they’ll say, “Oh my gosh, that happened with my kids the other day too,” or, “You were having a really tough day, and I was too, but what you said really resonated with me and it kind of helped me feel a little better.”

I’ve been accused of not having a sensor button. I will overshare often, but I am comfortable doing it because I have been doing it for so long. It’s gotten to the point where if I feel like I’m having some kind of conversation, it just feels very natural for me. So I almost, I’d prefer to show up on Stories or an Instagram Live or something rather than just posting a static post because I want the back and forth. That’s kind of what I thrive on and that’s why I keep showing up to Instagram. I found that community to be quite interactive. And that’s why I like it.

Kira Hug:  How do you make it work for you so it’s strategic and it is helping you build the business? And how do you do it when you’re having a rough day? I mean, because part of it is you’re talking about when you have a rough day, but then there are real rough days where it’s hard to show up. So how do you deal with it then?

Lindsay Hyatt:  I give myself permission to do what feels good to me. We’re taught like, you are showing up for your audience and you’re talking to them, it’s about them. And it is. But if I’m not feeling inspired or great, usually I’m not going to show up just to be there. Something I’ve always told people who ask about building a brand on social media is I share with them that it has to be something you actually enjoy. It has to be a little bit fun for you. Or one, you’re not going to do it, and two, you need to get comfortable with having the flexibility to be there when it’s the right time for you, and that’s based on your own intuition, and being okay with not showing up every day if you can’t. Because in the grand scheme of things, it’s really not that important to your life as a whole.

And then in terms of what I’m sharing, I don’t have a calendar that I schedule for the week or for the month of like, “This post is going out today. This post is going out tomorrow.” I have content pillars that I generally stay within business wise, especially if I have something that I’m promoting or launching. I have a million notes in my phone of content ideas or inspiration that I have that I think, “Oh, that would really fit under this pillar that I’m sharing this week because I have this new program.” So I kind of shoot from the hip. That’s what feels good to me. But I generally think if you have three key content pillars of things that line up towards your goals and your business or whatever you want to share, that’s kind of a nice framework to have.

Rob Marsh:  And then the impact on your business, how often do clients reach out? How often does that work, transact on Instagram? What does that look like?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. So I’ve had people reach out for copywriting and for coaching. I’ve even had referrals from people who said, “Oh, this person on Instagram referred me to you as a copywriter,” and I don’t even know them. So that’s the best compliment is, thinking of somebody here who I also follow, but we don’t know each other personally, she lives in another part of the country, she thought enough of me from what I’m showing up online to refer somebody to me. So I’ve had that come through Instagram. I’ve also gotten clients from Instagram because I am in their audience and I have kind of become somewhat of an expert in their brand just from following them. So I’ve pitched somebody through DMs before and became her copywriter for a project. So that was cool. To me, again, it all kind of comes back to building relationships. And then also on LinkedIn, LinkedIn is a wonderful place, especially for copywriters where you’re really getting more into the business side of connections and people who really need copy services. So I’ve gotten clients through LinkedIn as well on the copywriting side.

Kira Hug:  And you do stand out on LinkedIn because your content is more personal and it’s not the typical LinkedIn content in that feed. I’m also wondering how you work with clients, because I know we work together in the Think Tank  and I know more about your business. You can do just about anything for your clients, and sometimes that’s a great thing and sometimes it can feel like a disadvantage when you’re marketing and selling to clients. So how do you deal with that and turn it into an advantage on sales calls?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. I have struggled the whole time with niching. From the early days of the Accelerator to now even, I have had a hard time committing to a niche, and I’ve tried it a couple of times, but because of my wide variety of experiences in so many industries and in so many different realms of marketing, I didn’t want to settle into one thing because I really like the variety of doing a lot of things. And what I really like doing is building a relationship with a client and being able to dig deep into everything they’re doing. So more like a strategist besides just writing the copy.

So it has been challenging especially lately as I feel like people are being very cautious about where they’re spending marketing dollars of course, and that’s understandable. But my preference is I would love to be your go-to copy person. And because we have a relationship here, I have the opportunity then to dive even deeper with you and see where maybe there’s gaps. Maybe your email campaign could use a little bit of love. Maybe your social media feed could be a little bit more personalized. So I love seeing the whole big picture of a brand or of a client’s work and being able to support them with different types of copy depending on what they need.

Rob Marsh:  All right, let’s jump in here for just a second. Add a little context to some of the stuff that Lindsay has been sharing. So immediately, lots of things jump out. Before we jump into a lot of the stuff that Lindsay was talking about, her business, I want to just mention quickly just writing for radio. I know we haven’t talked about that a lot. Writing for radio is something that tends to happen in radio stations, with copywriters who are working directly for radio stations or in agencies. And there is a really good section of Luke Sullivan’s book all about writing for radio that’s in Hey, Whipple, his book. And we talked, I think, briefly with Luke about that as well in our interview with him.

I don’t have the number in front of me, but if you want to hear more about that, it is definitely a different kind of media. You don’t have any visual clue for your listeners, and so you’ve got to be entertaining or breakthrough, the noise that’s there. So anybody who’s interested in that, just jump in and check that out in his book. All right. Let’s talk about what Lindsay was sharing. Kira, what really stood out to you?

Kira Hug:  Lindsay’s whole approach to building her business is just something that speaks to me. I think it’s similar to my approach, that’s why I appreciate it. She’s all about just testing, trying. Her philosophy is, nothing is permanent. So Lindsay pivots until she figures out where she wants to land, and she may land there for a couple months or maybe a couple years and then she may pivot again. And I think she just brings the right mindset to this whole process because we all have to pivot anyway, but she’s coming into it with the right frame of mind so that it’s easier. And that’s something that we’ve been able to see her do. It’s not always easy to do that, but her approach is really smart and has helped her especially more recently.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. I really also liked when we were asking about the blog that she started forever ago, just the process, the discipline required for writing every day. Even when you’re busy, you’re tired, you’ve got the schedule in front of you, and some of the things that she shared there about keeping the idea list and just knowing that she’s got to be writing every day. You and I don’t write to our list every single day, at least individually we don’t. We try to send something out at least during the week every day, but it’s not always from us. And that is a discipline. It is hard to get that writing done and get everything out on a regular basis, even when we’re only doing it two or three times a week. So I admire that, and it’s something that more of us need to be doing. Even if we’re not sharing our list, we should be writing every day.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. I struggle to get our email out once a week. I’m writing once a week, sometimes twice a week, but even that can feel like a struggle. But once you get into the routine, it’s a little bit easier and you can kind of get that schedule down. So yeah, I need to create that idea list like Lindsay and keep everything in one place. That seems to be the biggest struggle of mine and something that she’s already figured out.

Lindsay’s also great at putting herself out there, which you can hear from the entire conversation. I’ve been pitched personally by Lindsay. I’ve seen her pitches. She’s actually great at nailing that pitch. But she’s willing to plant seeds and to put herself out there and to feel a little uncomfortable and to not bring too much ego into the process. I’ve seen her do that even recently. I mean, she did it to build her business, which is why she grew quickly and she mentioned that, but she’s also done it recently and just booked a few new projects as of this past week because she’s been pitching like crazy. So I just appreciate that she is not afraid to do that and put herself out there.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. A couple of weeks ago, you and I talked on the podcast in that episode just between you and me about what was working for copywriters and those that are succeeding. And Lindsay’s a really good example of this. This is exactly what it takes. If you’re going to pitch, if you’re going to be making these connections, you have to bury your pride, put aside your ego like you were saying, and look at it like planting seeds as opposed to asking for work. Because Lindsay’s creating relationships and sometimes they pay off immediately, but more often they pay off down the road. And those are the kinds of things that you can go back to then when things do get hard, when you do lose your clients and the work that you have, as Lindsay was sharing earlier on in the interview.

Kira Hug:  And she doesn’t just show up in the inbox with her pitches, she shows up on social media. She shows up even just in the program she’s a part of. In our Think Tank, she shows up to just about every Tuesday check-in call that we host. And it’s an optional call, you don’t have to show up, but Lindsay is great at if she’s a part of something, she is fully a part of it and you will see her and you will get to know her. And that’s just how she operates. And I think we could all learn from that, even if that doesn’t come naturally to us. But that’s part of being in a business, is you have to show up somewhere, otherwise people don’t know what you do and they definitely don’t know that they can hire you.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. What Lindsay was sharing about being authentic, that word has been thrown around so much over the last few years, and I think misunderstood as well. A lot of people think that sharing everything negative, whatever is being authentic, and maybe that’s how it works for them. But just being that person who is there, who is ready to help, who is, I think she mentioned showing up in your pajamas if that’s what comes natural to you, I don’t think I would ever show up in my pajamas, but showing up however you are real, I think is an important part of that. She does that, like you’re saying, almost every day on Instagram. She talked a little bit about being more personal on LinkedIn and how to do that. And really, it’s just being yourself as opposed to putting on the copywriter voice and writing a copywriter or putting on the consultant hat and feeling like everything has got to be not necessarily perfect, but professional in a way that doesn’t come across as being natural.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. Her brand is consistent. So if you hang out with Lindsay in person, which we’ve been able to do, it’s the same person as the brand that she reflects online because she’s just doing what feels good to her. She also is great at sharing her viewpoints, which I know she’s experimented with more recently on LinkedIn and on social media, just to say what she stands for, what she values. She’s got some strong opinions that I appreciate, we all have them, but she’s willing to put them out there to differentiate her brand from all of the other brands out there.

And then I appreciate that she also talks about having fun, and I know that’s a big part of what feels good to her. So she does pay attention to that. She doesn’t grind it out with activities that aren’t fun for her. And I think that’s something that I know I can learn from her because I don’t always lean into fun. I’ll lean into pain before I lean into fun, but that comes more easily to her. And it’s just a good reminder that we can all pay attention to that, what feels easy, what feels fun, what could we do more of, because there’s probably something there that is working.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah, there’s that idea that people talk about when you’re looking at your business or anything that you’re doing. And that is, what would this be like? What would this feel like? What would I do differently if this was easy? And maybe twist that a little bit and say, if this was fun, how would my business change? So if you’re struggling, if showing up for what you want to do or for your clients feels like a drag, maybe asking that question saying, what would this be like if it was fun? And then make those changes because you get to choose how you do business. And if fun is an important part of that, then build it in.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. And there’s always a way to do it. There’s always just something little you can do to turn that on and make it more fun if you can catch it and realize, “Okay, something’s not working here. How can I make a quick switch in the copy I’m writing or in a project I’m working on?” Or just sitting down and mapping out my plan for the next six months, how can I make that activity a little bit easier? There’s always a way.

Rob Marsh:  It doesn’t necessarily have to be fun if that’s not your value. What would this feel like or what would this be like if it was fast? What would this feel like or what would this be like if it was easy. There, you can insert your own adjective or value or whatever it is that you want out of your business, but the question works for all of it.

Kira Hug:  All right, let’s get back to our interview with Lindsay where she shares how her business has changed over the last couple of years.

Rob Marsh:  So what are the changes have you made in your business from those earlier days, the HVAC type clients, to today, these relationships that you’re developing? How else has your business changed?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. So at the end of last year, I made the decision to go into coaching, and I struggled with that decision. I’m not abandoning copywriting because I love writing. It’ll always be part of what I do. I struggled with the decision because being a fan of the online space, especially Instagram, I saw coaches everywhere, the whole, everybody and their brother is a coach for different types of things. And I just thought, who are these people? I really struggled with the word coach.

But I started a certification program in the fall and I started to learn the actual skills that you need to support people as they’re growing, especially in a business setting. That gave me confidence and it kind of put into perspective what it really means to be a coach. I knew as soon as I left my nine-to-five that I would love to support other people who always wanted to pursue that path but maybe didn’t know how, maybe felt like it was too risky, especially women. I really wanted to be a source of support or even inspiration like, “Hey, if I can do it, you can do it, because I’m certainly nobody special. This is something that I didn’t even think was possible for me, but it can be possible and it can be very rewarding.”

So going down that path and growing this arm of my business to support other creatives with mindset and business coaching is my new passion project, and it has been very exciting. And also, it’s been a slow go, but I think that we are all programmed to want that success right away, especially when we see it or we think we see it in other places online. But two, I just celebrated my two-year business anniversary, and I look back on what has happened in two years, and it’s really not that long of a time, and I’ve done a lot. So it’s kind of returning to the big picture whenever I can, that I feel really good about this decision and my purpose for why I’m doing it, and that I’m just going to keep getting the reps in, keep showing up for it and seeing where I can help people.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. And I appreciate you being transparent about the fact that it’s not easy to make a transition like this and to launch a new arm of your business. I would love to just hear more about what you’ve done to make this transition, to launch this new arm, what you’ve done that’s worked, what hasn’t worked, just get into the nitty-gritty of what it looks like since you’re in the middle of it.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. What has worked continues to be getting to know people where they’re at. I’ve been committed this year to showing up in more places, so whether it is on podcasts or in real life, here in my neck of the woods, and going to more networking events and showing up as mindset and business coach, not just a copywriter, that has been helpful not only for me to step into those shoes, but to get comfortable with sharing why I’m doing this and who I can help with more people, not just in social media, which was very easy and comfortable for me. So I’m really trying to push myself outside of my comfort bubble.

And where it has been a struggle is, there are a lot of coaches out there. Sometimes it feels very oversaturated. People are being cautious about where they spend money and time now. And there’s been times where I’ve doubted that this is the path, but ultimately I can’t let go of it. I thought maybe this is the wrong time to be doing a coaching business. There’s just so many coaches out there. But then I remember that I was inspired to do this for a reason, and I believe in that. So it’s kind of the mindset piece, of returning to it over and over again that if it’s meant to grow, and I believe it will, it will grow. So it’s the mindset piece for me, just putting aside the doubts. And if I feel in my gut that this is what I’m supposed to be doing, I’m going to keep going in that direction.

Rob Marsh:  So it’s easy to say, “I just set aside the doubts.” But how? How do you do that? When you have that voice in the back of your head that says, “Wait a second, hold up. Don’t do that. Don’t put yourself out there,” how do you deal with that?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Well, a few things. One, I have great mentors. I go to therapy for my own business in my head, all the mind trash that we have up there. I have a practice of my own, which for me, it’s journaling. As a writer, it’s really easy to just dump it out onto paper. My fourth thing is the permission to step back. So when things are feeling, like, overwhelming or just completely like I’m not sure of what I’m doing, I have given myself permission to step back from social, even from Think Tank, even from putting an offer together to just take a minute. Because when you can step back and allow yourself quiet and go to be in nature or go take a weekend to yourself, that’s when the clarity comes, I find. So between having support in a community and doing the work you can, like through therapy or whatever works for you, and then giving yourself permission to take a break for a minute, a week, a month even if you can, and get that clarity, that what has helped me get to a place where I can say, “I’m going to keep going.”

Kira Hug:  And I would love to hear more about the functional parts of this too, when you decide, “Okay, I’m a copywriter, I need to keep that business going, but I also am now stepping into coaching.” What do you need to put together? What does that offer look like? How do you share that with the world to start inching your way towards that new direction?

Lindsay Hyatt:  It has been challenging to have the two arms of the same business, and I have played with that since I launched the coaching part. And I can’t say I have it all figured out yet. I’m still working through it. But I know who I want to work with as a copywriter and who I have supported and who I can support. So I’ve tried to keep that in one lane of, “This is the content for them, these are the offers for them.”

And then on the other side of it, the coaching is, I really want to support other people in creative industries. Marketing professionals, copywriters, designers, photographers, people that work in this creative space, which feels quite different, I think, from people who maybe are an accountant or a lawyer, I think we operate differently. So I really know what that’s like to be in that space, whether it’s as an entrepreneur or in corporate. So all of my coaching messaging and packages are really about investigating what that group needs, whether it’s looking to leave their nine-to-five or they have a business of their own, but they’re feeling stuck or they want to pivot. A lot of these are places I have been, so sharing my experiences with that group and just being open about ways that I can support them because of the experiences I’ve had has really helped me make those connections as a coach, aside from being a copywriter.

Rob Marsh:  You recently launched a podcast. Tell us about that and how it dovetails with what you’re doing as a coach and a copywriter.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. I really wanted to launch a podcast. I actually launched a very short-lived podcast in the early days of the pandemic, and it was all about TV shows, and I hope to return to it someday because it would’ve been fun. Newborn life didn’t permit that. But this podcast is called Reprogramming with Lindsay Hyatt. I have had this idea in my heart for more than a year now, the idea of reprogramming beliefs and conditionings and things, stories that we’ve told ourselves about anything, really about business and about working, about life, about motherhood.

I think that we tend to tell ourselves these stories and we start to believe them. So whether it’s like, “Oh, I’m just destined to be tired every day and just be in survival mode and go through the motions,” or, “I have to stay in corporate because this is the only way I can have sustainable income,” I think these are things that we are conditioned to believe after telling ourselves over and over again, this is the only option. So reprogramming was a new way for me to show up and have great conversations with people about thinking about things through a different perspective. And I’m so happy that it’s launched and that it’s something that I can keep working on and meeting new people and sharing it with more people.

Kira Hug:  And what do you think is possible when we are able to reprogram and rewrite these stories? What do you see beyond that?

Lindsay Hyatt:  I think it gives people hope, actually. I think that the idea that for so long I’ve believed one thing, but after thinking about it a different way, I actually see there’s more possibilities here than maybe what I thought. For me, and a very personal example is I’ve had a lot of physical health struggles the last couple years, and I have always told myself, “Well, that’s just kind of your destiny because your family has health problems, and this is what life is going to look like for you.” And what a silly story to have told myself for my whole adult life. Since I’ve been able to think more about shifting that perspective, everything has changed for me, and I feel hopeful again, like I don’t have to live that life. That’s not my story. It’s all a story that we’re telling ourselves. So I would love to inspire more people to think differently about things and then really be able to find joy and hope again in their personal life or in their work life. And that’s what I hope this podcast brings.

Rob Marsh:  Now I want to be a guest, so you can reprogram all of my negative stories.

Kira Hug:  Rob, don’t get jealous, but I’m going to be a guest on Monday.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Ah, that’s Good.

Rob Marsh:  Well, I mean, there’s some reprogramming that needs to happen there too, I guess.

Kira Hug:  Ouch.

Lindsay Hyatt: Oh, no.

Kira Hug:  That is true. That is. Lindsay, you got to work here. Is it a therapy session? Because I hope so.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I don’t want to say that, but I can say sometimes people leave feeling a lot lighter.

Kira Hug:  Yeah, reprogramming, please.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah, I like it. I like it. Okay. So what else is going on in your business, Lindsay? I mean, you’ve made some big shifts, adding coaching, adding a podcast. Are you thinking, “Wow, maybe I should take a step back and sit down and rest for a little while”? Or what else is happening?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Honestly, I am taking a little step back now. I’m not shutting anything down or anything like that, but I don’t think I’ve allowed myself to realize how much that I’ve done in this pretty short amount of time. It’s a lot to fit into two years. So I actually am in this moment of stepping back and maybe taking in content a little bit less on social. Maybe instead of listening to all the podcasts in my weekly repertoire, maybe I’m listening to music I really enjoy. Maybe I’m going to go to a concert next week. I am. I can’t wait. Starting to fill myself back up on the personal end so I can be open to what’s next. So I’m super excited about continuing copy work and building this coaching business where I’m supporting creatives and now my new baby, the podcast. So it’s a lot on one’s plate, and now I’m going to keep working on being able to enjoy it and celebrate it. And I think that from that place, the next step will appear.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. I definitely thought you were in business longer than two years.

Lindsay Hyatt:  It feels longer.

Kira Hug:  Considering everything you’ve done, it seems like it’s at least five years. I would like to talk about you stepping into the spotlight, which goes along with the new podcast. But when we’ve chatted about this, you’ve been really open about confessing like, “I am ready to be in the spotlight or on stage, star of the show. I want that.” So I guess my question for you is, has that been hard for you to reprogram your own story to own that, or has that come easily? And then once you own that, what does that mean? What does that look like other than launching the podcast?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Well, the one path that I did not share about my early journey was that I wanted to… The third path was to go to New York City and become a Broadway star. That was what I wanted to do there.

Kira Hug:  There it is.

Rob Marsh:  That doesn’t sound like an introvert type thing.

Kira Hug:  There it is. Yeah.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I chickened out. I did not do that. So performing and just… I don’t know, I have a performance part of me that I like to be out there and I want to speak more. But as you guys may or may not know, I am in a cover rock band where I am the lead singer, and that kind of fills my cup in that area.

Rob Marsh:  Okay. Wait, I did not know this.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I don’t think I knew that.

Rob Marsh:  I don’t want to interrupt the answer, but what’s the cover band? Who do you cover?

Lindsay Hyatt:  We cover everything: ’80s, ’90s, alternative. Our band name is Ronnie & the Dashers, and Ronnie is my alter ego.

Kira Hug:  How has this just come up now?

Rob Marsh:  Yes, seriously. We’re finding this out two years after we first met you. Yeah.

Lindsay Hyatt:  So the thing is, I kind of believe in having an alter ego if you need that, because I needed that. I’m not always comfortable in my skin being out on the stage, but it brings me true joy to do it, to sing and to be out there. I actually have an easier time singing than speaking publicly, which is strange. But I feel at this point in my life, I’m certainly not perfect every day. I certainly have my times where I’m just like, I’m just not going to leave my house for a week, that’s fine. But I know the joy that I get from showing up and being out there and how much fun it can be. So that has inspired me to have this alter ego, Ronnie. It’s like my Sasha Fierce. I’m a Beyonce fan too. Okay? So I don’t know, I’ve gotten more comfortable with owning it. I know not everybody has that, but it’s part of me.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. This might be a hard question to answer because I wasn’t aware that you had that side of you. And I was going to ask, well, for somebody who wants to get started putting themselves out there, whether it’s on a podcast, whether it’s on social media or Stories on Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever, what advice would you give them? But I have a feeling some people listening are going to be like, “Well, that works for Lindsay because she has Ronnie, and I have nothing like that.” But I’m still going to ask the question. What advice would you give to somebody who wants to start to step out?

Kira Hug:  Rob, you have Robbie. That’s yours.

Rob Marsh:  I don’t think that’s my alter ego. I’m going to have to think of a better name for that.

Kira Hug:  Robbie.

Rob Marsh:  But yeah.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. Well, I think that you start small. You don’t get out there and go to karaoke. Maybe it is karaoke. But you start small. So if you’re somebody who’s not comfortable showing up on camera, don’t show up on camera right away. Show up on a podcast or even record yourself talking on your own phone just to put the reps in. I’m a big believer of jumping in and doing the practice because it does get easier every time you do it. And yeah, what’s a small way that you can show up either as your alter ego? Why not make one? You don’t have to tell anybody about it. Or just showing up as yourself and getting comfortable with being yourself. So I think small bites and practice are the keys to becoming more comfortable doing that.

Kira Hug:  So is your music on your podcast?

Lindsay Hyatt:  No. No. But there’s not a really good excuse. I need to make my podcast intro. Shouldn’t I?

Kira Hug:  Yeah.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I mean, I have a band. They would do it.

Rob Marsh:  You should totally sing it, sing your intro.

Kira Hug:  Yeah, it should be you.

Lindsay Hyatt:  I don’t think I have the song for it. I don’t know. You want to know what’s funny? Though I am a writer, I’ve never been able to write my own song. Isn’t that weird?

Kira Hug:  This is your chance. You’re a writer, you sing, you’ve got a podcast. It all lines up.

Lindsay Hyatt:  That’s right.

Kira Hug:  I want to make sure we have time to talk about one more thing before we start to wrap. Can we talk about Rob’s angry email?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yes.

Kira Hug:  So Rob wrote this email, and if you’re listening and you read our emails, you may recall this one. It was maybe a month or two, probably two months ago.

Rob Marsh:  I think calling it the angry email is a little unfair.

Kira Hug:  Multiple people have said-

Rob Marsh:  I don’t think I was angry.

Kira Hug:  You weren’t angry, but it came off that Rob was angry.

Rob Marsh:  It was maybe a little truthful, and it was hard truths that I was sharing. Yeah.

Kira Hug:  You don’t have to recite the email, I wish I had it in front of me, but just what it said that you recall, what spoke to you, and then what you did with that information.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah. Rob shook me out of a haze of self-pity. I had a rough start to the year. I lost all my retainer clients unexpectedly in January, and I closed last year at the top of the mountain. I felt like I had arrived. So I know I was in a place of feeling bad about that. And in our group, in the Think Tank, we all are so supportive and everyone was sharing stories, and a lot of people were in this kind of similar situation. And the struggles channel was filled.

So it was after that, we got this very kind of tough love email from Copy Dad, and he’s basically like, “Hey, get out of your own way. Pick yourself up. Go out there and pitch because you’re not going to get clients sitting here feeling bad for yourself.” And that is not what it said, but that is what hit me. That’s what hit home for me. And from there I was like, “Oh, my gosh, Rob is right. I can’t just sit here and feel bad about this. Just take the drama out of it and go pitch people.” And that email has resonated and has sat with me this whole year. So thank you, Rob, for pulling out the tough love. I needed it. It pushed me into motion.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. Now maybe I need to send out more angry emails. I don’t know. If those messages help, I’m happy that it made that contribution to you, Lindsay, for sure.

Lindsay Hyatt:  Yeah, I think it pulled a lot of people out of their own funk.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. I think I remember at the time, I was in a little bit of a funk too, and I was like, “Okay, Rob, I guess I’ll try harder.”

Rob Marsh:  I must have been feeling something in the air. I mean, I didn’t have any one in particular that I was thinking about, but it’s just one of those things where we keep hearing these things over and over like, “The economy’s bad. I’m losing all my clients and there’s nothing I can do. How do I struggle?” And it just goes to this idea of taking radical responsibility. It isn’t your fault, but the only way out of it is on you a hundred percent. You can’t change the economy, but you can change whether you’re going to pitch into the client. You can’t change whether a client says yes to your proposals, but you can change that you’re making contacts and able to send out those proposals. You can’t change a lot of things, but there are things that you can change. You can change your niche, you can change your products, the products that you offer. You can change your pricing. You can change the clients that you work with, all of that stuff. So none of us should be sitting around saying, “Well, it’s not my fault. There’s nothing I can do,” because-

Kira Hug:  It’s not my fault, but it really is not my fault.

Rob Marsh:  It isn’t. You’re right. It’s not your fault, but there is something you can do to fix it. And that’s where it comes into.

Lindsay Hyatt:  We all need to hear that. And I think every single one of us that opened the email thought it was about us.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah, it wasn’t about any one particular person, I promise.

Kira Hug:  Well, Lindsay, as his business partner, I was like, “He’s definitely writing to me.”

Rob Marsh:  Maybe I was writing to me.

Kira Hug:  Yeah.

Rob Marsh:  Most of my emails are to me. Somebody said, the thing you teach best is the thing you need to learn most.

Kira Hug:  That’s true. That’s so true.

Rob Marsh:  So it may have been to me.

Kira Hug:  All right. So Lindsay, why don’t you just share, as we wrap, how copywriters, content writers, creatives listening could work with you? Definitely with mindset coaching, because we all know we need help. I always do. So how can we work with you there? And then where else can we find you?

Lindsay Hyatt:  So I’m actually working on some summer offers right now because as I mentioned, I’m looking to simplify. I know most people are doing the same thing. So I’m going to be releasing those soon. But right now, I have a few different copy packages. You can find out more about them at lindsayhyatt.com. And on the coaching front, I’ve really been loving doing these dream sessions that I have, which are 60 minutes of really just digging deep into where you’re at now and where you really want to go, not what you should do, but where you could go in the next year, in the next five years. And by having these dream sessions with different creatives, oh man, we have opened up so many doors to possibilities and then started to put a roadmap together on how to get there. So that’s a great place to start if you’re looking for some mindset or business coaching support. And as you mentioned, Rob, I am on Instagram way too much. You can find me there, @TheLindsayHyatt. I’m always up for a DM chat anytime.

Rob Marsh:  All right. Thanks, Lindsay, for joining us, sharing so much about your business and what’s going on and reminding me that maybe it’s time to take some responsibility. Appreciate that.

Kira Hug:  Wait, before you hit stop, I have one more question, quick question, quick answer. Lindsay, we didn’t even ask you about your experience in the Think Tank, which is totally our own plug, but could you share in a minute just what has helped you the most specifically about your time in the Think Tank?

Lindsay Hyatt:  Well, the community is always topnotch. The support for each other is always just the best that I’ve found across any other program I’ve ever done. So that’s lovely. But, having the time to work through my business and just get brutally honest about where I’m at and where I want to go with you and Rob. The mapping sessions that we’ve done, Kira, have been not only inspirational, but they’ve also helped me get my ideas onto paper and see them in such a beautiful way. You do such a nice job there on the mapping.

Kira Hug:  Thank you.

Lindsay Hyatt:  So it really makes me feel like I have these things I want to do and here’s how they can happen and let’s take bite-sized steps to get there. And I think we all need that to get out of our own head the big ideas and really get it onto paper and see, “Okay, the tiny steps to get there.” So that’s been so helpful to me. And love The Copywriter Club Think Tank forever.

Rob Marsh:  Awesome. Thanks, Lindsay.

Kira Hug:  And now we can wrap. And now we can wrap. That’s the end of our interview with Lindsay Hyatt. Before we go, let’s touch on a few more things that stood out. Rob, what stood out to you?

Rob Marsh:  So Lindsay’s shift from exclusively copywriting to doing coaching for some of her clients and coaching in the things that she does as a writer is something that we’ve talked with several copywriters about and that some copywriters enjoy and want to shift their business. So obviously Lindsay is figuring that out in her business and what that looks like. It’s not the easiest shift to make in a business because as a coach, people are looking for different things than what we tend to do when we show up one on one. When they want copy or the things that copy gets them as a coach, they want mastery, they want understanding, they want to be able to do some of this stuff yourself or ourselves. And Lindsay is sort of working through that shift and showing up in different ways to fill those different roles in her business. I like it. And it’s just eye-opening to see how different copywriters look at their businesses in different ways and explore different offers for their clients.

Kira Hug:  Yeah. She said she has not been able to let go of this mindset coaching piece, even though it sounds like in some ways when she talks about it, she would rather let go of it because it’s hard, it’s a hard transition to make. But she hasn’t been able to let go of it, and I think that’s just worth paying attention to because there are things that I haven’t been able to let go of. And if I check a journal or an email I sent to a friend from 10 or 15 years ago, there are things I was talking about then that I’m still pursuing now. And it’s pretty amazing how long we have these inclinations to do these things, and it’s worth paying attention to, even if it’s hard to make that transition. And that’s what I love about Lindsay, is she really understands what she wants to do and what she does not want to do. She has such a high level of self-awareness and knowing what works for her and what doesn’t work for her.

Rob Marsh:  And as we were talking too about her new podcast and how she’s leaning into that new opportunity, it just got me thinking about the idea of reprogramming or challenging our beliefs. I know that was kind of the focus of almost the entire end of that episode, but I just took a moment to step back and think, “Okay, what are some of the things that I need to change my beliefs around when it comes to business or personal life?” And I think that’s a really useful exercise that all of us should be doing. We do these things in business or in life, and they become habitual and they become easy or comfortable, and oftentimes we don’t push ourselves outside of that comfort zone. So it’s really useful just to be challenging those beliefs. I love that she’s doing it on the podcast. I’m looking forward to hearing your episode when you get to talk about that life with her.

Kira Hug:  Yeah, she’s a great interviewer. I enjoyed that process and being on her show, and I do not enjoy a lot of podcast interviews.

Rob Marsh:  It’s a little bit of irony there since you are a podcast host.

Kira Hug:  I think I have a higher expectation because we’re hosts, but she did a great job, asked great questions. She’s a good listener, and it did feel like therapy. I felt lighter after the episode. So there is something to the whole reprogramming process, and I’ve been thinking a lot about that since her interview. It’s definitely something that we can all think more about.

Rob Marsh:  What else stood out to you, Kira?

Kira Hug:  I think the last thing is her cover rock band experience as a rockstar and how that came out at the very end of the conversation. But it’s this big piece of her identity, that since she was a kid, she wanted to be a performer, and she has been really clear in the conversation, in the episode, but also just when I’ve chatted with her about how she really likes the spotlight, and not a lot of copywriters do. I mean, there are many that do, but not everybody. And she’s just been very willing to own that, even though at times I think it has felt uncomfortable to say, “I just love being in the spotlight.” I think there’s some shame around it, which we don’t have to feel. So it’s cool to see her really fully embrace that because it’s such a big part of her identity and pull it into her business so that it actually can work for her.

Rob Marsh:  Yeah. The idea of the alter ego, I think was made famous by Todd Herman, that book The Alter Ego Effect. But we do show up in different roles in so many places in our lives. I recognize I talk to my kids differently than I talk to people on the podcast or that I coach. Even though we’re unaware that we do it sometimes, we are, we’re different people in the different roles we are. So just embracing that and saying, “Hey, I can actually show up in a very different way. If I’m introverted, I can be that person that gets on stage for an hour.” And yeah, it does burn energy, all that stuff that goes into it, and then you can step back off, relax, take it easy. We don’t have to show up.

It’s interesting because we were talking about authenticity earlier. It doesn’t mean that you’re inauthentic either in showing up in a different role. You’re just showing up in a different way that serves your clients better, serves your audience better. It does something differently. It’s still authentic to who you are. So yeah, I love that idea. And I think we do it a little bit when we get on stage too, or even when we’re on the podcast.

Kira Hug:  Oh yeah, definitely. I don’t act like that at all.

Rob Marsh:  I want to see Kira as the podcast host at home. “Okay. We’re bringing our first guest onto the show today. How’s it going, Harper?”

Kira Hug:  You know what, though? There are parts that are definitely consistent though. I ask a lot of questions to my kids. I basically interview them during dinner time, just as if there was a podcast mic right there.

Rob Marsh:  We should record that sometime and share that with the world. That’d be interesting. We want to thank Lindsay Hyatt for joining us on the podcast to talk about her journey and her business and how she’s built that business today. If you want to connect with her, head over to lindsayhyatt.com. Be sure to check out her podcast about reprogramming your beliefs. You’re going to like it.

Kira Hug:  And that’s the end of this episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. The intro music was composed by copywriter and songwriter Addison Rice. Outro was composed by copywriter and songwriter David Munter. If you enjoyed today’s episode, you could leave a review on any device. We appreciate any review and we will read it in a future episode. And please check out our new podcast, new-ish podcast.

Rob Marsh:  Yes, not new.

Kira Hug:  It’s new compared to this one.

Rob Marsh:  Right.

Kira Hug: All about our artificial intelligence and how copywriters are using it in their businesses to get better at what they do and looking at all sides of the conversation around it. You can check that out at aiforcreativeentrepreneurs.com. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next week.