That's Just What I Needed Podcast - How Spiritual Disciplines Help Us Grow Closer to God with Monica Ritchie

0:00What if everything you love about your faith got deeper? Richard, more rooted, more alive. L. Shadai Ministries exists to take Torah to the nations, restoring the biblical and historical foundations of the connection between Christians and the Jewish roots of Scripture. Pastor Mark Biltz has taught in 25 nations on five continents, and now he's teaching you. Free at 1place.com. Just search L. Shadai Ministries at 1place.com. No one is too far gone. No past is too broken. Full surrender with Melchansi, real conversations, biblical truth, and redemption for anyone who is walked through the dark. New, unspotted Apple, YouTube, and most major podcast platforms. Your story is not over. Subscribe today. This is Donna Jones, and you're listening to That's Just What I Needed.

1:02Hey, friend, if you've ever been in a conversation where you've walked away thinking, wow, that was just what I needed. You know how life's getting that can be. Well, that's what this podcast is all about. We're women you want to know, love, and follow God in our real lives, but sometimes wonder just how to do it. So each week we'll talk about what Paul Linkad looks like in the midst of daily demands and crazy culture of Kaye Office. Because this isn't just what we need. It's actually exactly what we need. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Before we get into today's conversation, let's connect. You'll find me on Instagram at Donna A. Jones and on Facebook, I'm at Donna Jones Speaker and Author. I would love for you to sign up for my newsletter at my website, Donna Jones.org or just get the free resources that are there. But whatever way that feels comfortable for you, I would love to get to know you more and connect with you on a more personal basis. Well, let me tell you a little bit about today's guest. Her name is Monica Richie.

2:04She is an on-air radio host out of the Twin Cities Minneapolis St. Paul, Minnesota. And she is the host of the popular podcast called Theologically Fashioned. She's written this great new book called Fashioned by Faith. And I love what people are saying is that this is about the spiritual discipline, but it is encouraging. It's warm and it is not at all overwhelming. So help me welcome my guest, Monica Richie. Monica, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. I am excited to have you. I just met you, Monica. So tell us a little bit about yourself as we kind of kick off our conversation. Sure. Yeah, I married my husband. I have been together. It will be 20 years next year. Congratulations. Thank you. Live in the Twin Cities, Minnesota. People aren't familiar with me saying the Twin Cities.

3:05And we have got two girls. They are 14, almost 16, so 9th and 10th graders. Life is good. And I went to seminary and when I was sitting in those classes, I felt like, these things are so good. They're so good. Why can't everybody know all of these things? And so that's where the idea for this book was born. Now we'll talk about. Okay. I love that. And just a fun fact, Monica, that my listeners probably don't know because I just started this week. I just started seminary as well. You did. Oh, congratulations. Where are you going? And tell me about it, Denver. Uh-huh. Denver? And the Women's Leadership cohort getting my masters there. Oh, fantastic. I know so many women who are in that program and they are all wonderful. And so I have no doubt this will be a great experience for you. So excited. Yeah. I'm really excited about it. But really interesting, your background is because you are a social or still probably are social media influencer.

4:06And then you go to seminary and there's this whole, okay, the culture and the whole social media thing and how it related to seminary. So talk to us a little bit about the cognitive dissonance that you experienced. Sure. My background is in retail merchandising. And I spent some time as a freelance photo, wardrobe stylist kind of in that world. And from that point, I actually like stopped doing that state home full time with my kids. And during that time where I was staying home full time with really little kids, I had a family friend who was like, Hey, there's this new app that you can get for your phone. It's called Instagram. You know, it's like this was brand new, right? And he was like, I think this would be kind of a fun way for you to showcase some of your like fashion ideas. So I downloaded the app and started sharing kind of influencer mom content. Plus, at the time, I was in a Bible study and kind of started sharing more about, and

5:09I was in leadership in this Bible study. So I kind of started sharing more about what I was learning and what that looked like and how that played into my life while at the same time, right? And I didn't know that Christian influencer was a thing. This was like back when Instagram first started. So like, niches weren't real. You know, there was no algorithm. It was just like you just followed people and you saw their posts in chronological order. Like it was wild. And I didn't know that Christian influencer was a thing. But I started seeing all of this faith-based content. And yeah, I started to really wrestle with what am I seeing online? What am I learning? What is, I don't know if real is the right word, but like how is this fitting altogether? And a lot of it is mixed and confusing messages. And a lot of it is really aesthetic. And I'm just having all of these feelings about all of it, frankly. And so low and behold, I go to seminary.

6:10And honestly, it happened as simple as that. It was like, I woke up one day. I've always loved studying the Bible truly. And I felt this intense need to go to seminary. And it felt like I got like a okay, Monica, go. And then I just went. So there wasn't a lot of processing time. I just did it. So I went to Bethel Seminary. That's in St. Paul, Minnesota. And graduated with my masters in Christian thought from there. Okay, which is really interesting, Christian thought. And then seeing these influencers. And okay, think about that. I mean, I haven't really even thought about this until what having this conversation right now. So I reserve the right to re-nig anything that I am about to say. I mean, because I'm an Instagram, you want to post encouraging things. But I think for a lot of people, that's where they're getting like the bulk of their biblical ideas or their Bible versus is on some influencer on social media.

7:11And also, if that's your goal to be an influencer on social media, I mean, Jesus was about people one on one. It wasn't about, I mean, yes, he talked to the crowds and stuff like that. But I'm not dissing that. I'm just like you. I'm being, I think there's some caution to that. I think we're always being formed by something, right? And so my book is spiritual formation. And I became really interested in that during my time in seminary is how we're being formed and what is forming us. And are we being more formed into Christlikeness? Yes, no, maybe so. And so the reality is we can say good, bad, neutral things about social media. We are spending time there. So because we're spending time there, it is forming us. And so it is wise to use discernment. And it is wise to use self-awareness and reflection and humility as we engage with it.

8:13Because we need to remember that these algorithms are playing into something. So let's be thinking about what that is and what that looks like and how that's forming us. And our practices. Okay, Monica, that is so good because if we're spending time there, it is forming us. And to your point, the algorithms, they're not random. They are pointing us in a direction. So we are actually being controlled, whether we know it or not, by the powers that be that. And it's learning you. Yes. It's learning you. Learning your preferences, your positions. And so something that I talk about in the book is giving us practices for spiritual disciplines. And maybe you've heard of spiritual disciplines. Maybe your listeners haven't. You're probably participating in them. Maybe just haven't heard of them called spiritual disciplines. So we're engaging with them and seeing them on social media, whether we want to or not.

9:16Because the algorithm is learning you and it is showing you what it thinks you will like because it wants you to stay there and engage with it. And so the spiritual disciplines kind of talking about, okay, well, how does that look in this day and age with this formation of social media and bringing that into it? Here's what I think is so interesting is that you're bringing out the point that we're being formed by something and a lot of us social media. But your premise is that we should be formed by Jesus, right? And the way that we do that is through these spiritual disciplines, which you're going to talk to us a little bit about, even that phrase, if somebody's not familiar with that, disciplines kind of can sound like, oh, that doesn't sound very fine. But actually, you're going to show us how this is the very means that we experience more of God. And this is something that I've been talking about with a couple of my friends actually. And just the desire for more, like more of God, more knowledge of God, more intimacy with

10:22God, more communion with God, you know, all of that. And so we're going to take a quick break. And if this is resonating at all with you, my listening friends, that you want more of God when we come back, Monica is going to share how that can be a reality for all of us. What if everything you love about your faith got deeper, richer, more rooted, more alive? L Shadai Ministries exists to take Torah to the nations, restoring the biblical and historical foundations of the connection between Christians and the Jewish roots of Scripture. Pastor Mark Biltz has taught in 25 nations on five continents, and now he's teaching you. For a short devotional, we would love to introduce you to the Salvation Army's One Minute Podcast, Heartbeat. New episodes drop every Tuesday and Thursday. One of the biggest questions we carry as human beings is, what happens next?

11:24What will heaven be like? The Bible gives us incredible promises about eternity. We know that through Jesus, death isn't the end. We know there will be no more pain, no more suffering, and that we will be with God. But it's interesting that the Bible doesn't give us every detail about heaven. And maybe that's intentional. Maybe God didn't reveal everything because He doesn't want us spending our lives only looking forward to the next one. He wants us to live this one. Jesus said, I have come that they may have life and have it abundantly. We don't have to fear the future because God holds eternity. But we also don't have to miss the beauty of the life He has given us right now. Live fully, love deeply. Trust God with what comes next. For more episodes of Heartbeat, visit SalvationArmyRadio.org. Okay, so Monica, we are talking about experiencing God more. And you just talked just about how we're always being formed by some things, social media, in particular, but how these spiritual disciplines can help form us more into the image of Christ

12:28and give us this deep preemptive mercy with Jesus. So talk to us a little bit about what you've found. So spiritual disciplines, again, if you're not familiar with them, another phrase you might hear are rhythms or practices. And again, you're probably participating in these things, even if you haven't heard them called disciplines. So they're prayer, fasting, making intentional time for rest, it's being in community. I even include things like learning how to read your Bible well. I include that as a discipline. And the reason that we're participating or wanting to do these things is because this is an opportunity for us to be transformed. And I think a lot of times people will say things, I come to you saying this like this was me. Like I did this. I remember my first class in seminary was hermeneutics and I thought, oh, this is perfect. I'm so good at this because it's really head knowledgey. I'm good at this part.

13:28Explain what hermeneutics says to somebody who doesn't know what that is. So hermeneutics is simply meaning interpretation. So you're interpreting the Bible. It's a big word to describe a big and wide practice of what does the Bible say, kind of essentially. I was in this class and during hermeneutics a lot of times what you'll do is you'll parcel out a book of the Bible, really, really tightly going through it, word by word. And so I was in my hermeneutics class doing this thing and I was like, yeah, I'm really good at this. I'm so good at like my, I am a head person, right? Head knowledge. And my class right after that was spiritual formation. And I got the syllabus for that class and I thought, now this isn't quite for me. This is very feelings. It's very much like, how does this feel? Pick a practice and then monitor how it makes you feel. And I thought, oh, that's so silly. I was like, I don't need to do that. But I did because I want a good grade.

14:28And again, I realized how this sounds in hindsight, but I'm just telling you the reality of this situation. But it was through that class and it was through those practices that I felt as though one, God handed me this large piece of humble pie, like Manica, just remember that actually you don't know everything. And two, you are a fully embodied human being. You are not a head person and a heart. Like there's not head people and heart people. All people are fully embodied. And so what the disciplines offer to us. And again, those are things like prayer and fasting and lamenting and living in community and learning to read our Bible as well. What that offers us is an opportunity to bring our whole selves together. And our whole selves then in turn love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. And the reason we want to do that is so that we can take that full embodiment and then turn that back out into the world and represent him well, back out into the world that he

15:35so loves. And so that's the importance of the disciplines and really its intentionality behind them. Oh, that is so interesting. And I love how you communicated that nobody is just a head person and nobody is just a heart person. We are all both. Obviously, we might feel like we lean toward one of the other, but we're both. We are fully embodied people. That's really an interesting idea. I love the way you communicated that. Okay, I'm going to ask you this. The one that was least familiar to you and or the one that was hardest for you. Okay. I have a couple layers of answers for this question. The one that I like best for me is prayer. I feel like prayer is so transformative for me. And so what I also wanted to offer in this is a lot of practicality. And that's kind of the feedback that I've been getting is this is very practical. And that was my goal. My goal was to give people something.

16:35How do I actually embody this? So you're talking about becoming more Christ like how do I embody this? How do I practice this? So in my chapter on prayer, I give a lot of options for different ways that you can pray. You don't have to necessarily can you have? You see these like really beautiful prayer spaces online? Cool. Like that's awesome, but that might not be our reality for you. So what are really practical ways that you can implement the transformative power of prayer in your life? So that one is easy slash I like that one. Okay, but before you go on, I want to ask you is because now you picked my interest. So give me just a couple practical tips about okay, how can I go deeper in this practice of prayer? Sure. So one that I really love and people seem to be resonating with is this idea of a wandering prayer. I call it. This does now if you have little at home, this might not be for you. It might not. But it's this idea to give yourself some time. I think a lot of times we will sit down in prayer and we've got our list of requests.

17:37That's great. That's fine. But give yourself time to let your mind wander and you might actually start out wandering through your checklist, your things you need to do today, what you need to get at the grocery store. When do I need to pick up the kids? But I encourage you to sit with it and just keep in that space and ask God to bring something to your heart, to your mind. Maybe it's prayer for a person that you haven't thought up for a while or maybe something a situation comes up and you're like, oh, that actually wasn't healed or maybe I need to forgive again. And so again, this takes some time and some space and some humility to work in, but that is an opportunity, I think, for a way that we can enter into partnership and prayer with God that brings us to deeper intimacy with Him and deeper relationship. I've got a couple other ideas in there too. Just don't forget that those quick one-liner prayers, those are just as wonderful and heard

18:42by God as your long, maybe you like to write your prayers out. That's not like, okay, this prayer is more important because she wrote it versus she said it in the pickup line. He's not weighing out the importance of your prayers. So again, just offering some practicality in how you're practicing and embodying your faith. So the discipline that I dislike the most and I'm open about this in the book, honest about my experience with it, but you can't write a book on spiritual disciplines and then God not ask you to do all of them. And so is fasting. I don't like it. And so I've offered a couple of ways that you can practice fasting because perhaps a dietary fast is not what's right for you. And in fact, that might be unhealthy or whatever the case. There are other things to fast from. You've probably heard people fasting from social media or different things like that. But I did do a dietary fast at one point, which was really hard and awful. But great, great, great.

19:42I love that you're real. I love that. It was really good, but I don't want to do it again. And then I also did, like we had talked about before, I was before I was posting about my faith online. I was an influencer and with that came a lot of consumption and particularly consumption of clothing. And so I felt as though I was in a season where it was like, whoa, Monica, you need to slow down and like take a break. So I didn't know by and I talk about this in the book too. Like I didn't buy anything for three months. And maybe to some people that sounds like not a big deal. But when you're in that world and essentially creating a career out of that, to not buy anything, anything for three months felt like a big ask at the time. Right. So you were giving up something that was really important to you and not just important, but it was kind of quote unquote necessary for your profession. Just like food is like necessary for our lives.

20:43So you were giving up something in a similar vein. It felt important, but fasting allows us an opportunity to create space for God to work. Our lives are so full, so full, particularly in where we live. So fasting is an opportunity for us to create intentional space for God to show up and to work. It's not easy. But when you did that fasting where it was a no buy fast, because you could just do that and then really not go closer to the Lord. How did that help you then go a little bit deeper in your relationship with Jesus? Well, you need to start off and this is the same for any spiritual practice or discipline. And I actually start the book off this way too. I started off with a reminder that you are made in the image of God. And this provides us the foundation to say, I am engaging in these practices. From a place that I am already loved and taken care of versus I am doing these practices

21:44to earn or gain favor or love. And so starting off with a posture of humility and understanding again, yes for fasting, but this is for any practices because we all know people who are really great at doing all of these things, but still lack being transformed into more Christ-likeness. And so again, we are starting from that place. I am already loved, provided for, cared for. And so working into that and I share this story in the book. It sounds really simple and silly and goofy, but the reality is that I had a vacation in the middle of my no buy. And again, I am just trying to offer reality and practicality. And so I had this vacation planned and what do we do before we go on vacation? You buy stuff, right? I need a new bathing suit. I need a new whatever. I need a new gift for my first day in a month. And I really wanted to. So my hair, it's not like naturally curly but it's naturally wavy. We're going on a truffle for covecation.

22:44I wanted C salt Sprite for my hair. I wanted it. And it was like I had to have this internal argument with myself, right, about like, okay, but Monica, you are in the middle of this fast. So is your integrity worth this $10 or not? I committed to this, and I said I was going to do it. And it was just this internal struggle, and it sounds so silly, like repeating it back, but I had determined to myself, I said, nope, Monica, you know what? Let's be realistic. This is sea salt spray. Don't be silly. Don't break your integrity over this like $10 item. That's so silly. And so God, in his perfect timing, right, a friend had actually texted and said, hey, this company accidentally sent me an extra sea salt spray. Would you like to have it for a vacation? I just had to sit there at my kitchen. I was like at my kitchen counter, and I was like looking at this text and thinking, the sense of humor that God has. Like it is not lost on him. He cares about your things that we call small and little who cares about my sea salt spray.

23:48I'm vacation. Who cares about that? God does, because I wanted it. And it's so silly and ridiculous, and I'm completely aware of that. God still cared enough to provide for it. So, and I'm not saying that it works out that way every time. I'm not. But I also wonder if we give God a chance, if we create enough space and give him a chance to show up what that might look like. Oh, that is mic drop. I think you are on to something there, because I think we jump in and do for God what he would have done for us. Well, and especially because we can do it so instantly. I could have ordered that sea salt spray and had it to my house within three hours. Wow. Like you said, that's a silly example, but it translates into bigger issues where really it comes down to monic and issue of control. That fast for you was basically saying, Lord, I'm going to submit this area of my life to you. That is an area maybe that I haven't really fully thought about submitting to you before.

24:52And so that's laying down control, right? So but all of us have areas where we're like, we want to control our kids, we want to control profession, we want to control, I mean, all of us, right? That's really interesting how you didn't jump in and then the Lord provided. And I want to just reiterate how badly I wanted to jump in because I know that I can just fix it, but it's that discomfort and sitting with the discomfort without shame, but instead with curiosity and trust that it's going to be okay. So I even start off the chapter with how much I dislike discomfort. I don't like it. And I think that's totally normal, right? Like God's not surprised that we as people might not like discomfort. He's not surprised that you're a human being. He's working with that. He knows what he's working with. Right. Like he's like, yeah, I made you. I'm aware. Thank you, though. So I think that's an important reminder in that too. And again, what I hope to offer in this book is God is not surprised by your humanity.

25:56And we don't have to abandon who we are as humans in order for connection, relationship and intimacy with him. That's really good. That's really good because a lot of us, I think, separate like, oh, this is my spiritual life, but then this is my real life. And they're not integrated. And what you're saying is like, no, no, no, just integrate. It's all one. Integrate your relationship with God and to like who you are. Are as a person and the season that you're in, right? Because those are going to shift and change too. And remember, like back at the beginning of our conversation, they were a fully integrated being. And so our seasons of life are going to add in flow. So the disciplines that we participate in are going to shift and change. And you can't do all of them at once. But in each section or at the end of each chapter, I have an endurance section because this is about endurance. This is not about a quick fix, which I do think that social media has played into that idea, right? That we can be transformed just light switch. Does that sometimes happen in an area of our lecture?

26:58It can. But more often than not, right? God is not working on our same timeline. It's endurance here. Long obedience in the same direction. Long obedience in the same direction. Just doing the same things over and over and over and over and over. Just like what you said, social media, you see the same kind of things over and over and over and over. And then pretty soon, that's influenced you, right? But at the same way, when you pray or you read God's word or you worship or you fast or whatever, when you do those over and over and over, that eventually changes you. So I love that. Okay. As we're wrapping up here, I do want to ask you a little bit more about why you included it. I think this is fascinating. Wrestling well with God as one of the spiritual disciplines. And I mean, I think I would agree with you, but I've never heard anybody put that in the spiritual disciplines. So to be fair, wrestling with God is under the chapter of mystery.

27:59It is under the chapter of existing in the wonderment of God. And I think part of that comes from our ability to wrestle and wrestle well. So for example, an issue, a topic that I had struggled with for years was women in ministry. And it took years to wrestle with the topic. I consulted a lot of professors, articles, different people that I had trusted, different resources and all of that. And though I have landed on a conclusion there, what I want to point people to is one, wrestling with God is not disobedience. I was told I was disobedient, numerous times, because it was something I was wrestling with. It was not disobedience. It's actually a very beautiful spiritual practice. That is not concern. Like he's not shaken in his boots over your questions, right? What you're basically describing here is trying to ask God your questions and then get God's answer. Like God doesn't understand this. So help me understand this according to your word and your ways.

29:00That's basically what you're saying, right? Asking your questions that you maybe don't understand. Yes. So ever I do want to point people to the mystery and awe of God and allowing that to also be a discipline and a practice to say, I don't know yet, but God does. And that's enough. And my job right now is again to reflect Christ's likeness back out into the world that He still loves as best I can, even though I don't know all the answers to this. But I also think in social media there is this tendency and propensity to want to know every single answer to every single question. And we want to know it really quickly, but that is just not the case. That is not how good theology works and it's not how God operates. Can it maybe, sure, sometimes, but a lot of times know. So wrestle well, but hold that mystery and awe and wonderment of God right alongside of it. Oh, you know, Monica, that's really good advice because you're right.

30:00There's going to be things because God is God and we are not. And there are going to be things we just don't know. And part of submitting our life to Christ is to say, I don't know. I mean, never know this, but that's okay because you're God and I'm not. And so I love that you have included this. That's a really so. Our questions are great. They can draw us closer to God, but at the same token, we're never going to have all of our questions answered this side of heaven. And that's just reality. Okay, Monica, tell us a little bit about how we can find your book and connect with you. MonicaRitchie.com. There are links all over my website. I've got resources there for you as well. Tons of staff, MonicaRitchie.com. I am most active on Instagram and a little bit on threads, a little bit on subsack, but mostly on Instagram. And my handle there is it's MonicaRitchie. Great. We will put all that information in the show notes.

31:01Monica, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and make God just bless your ministry and bless you as you continue to get to know him more and more and more. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Well, I hope you enjoyed today's episode. And as a reminder, let's connect more on Instagram. I'm Madonna A. Jones, Facebook, Donna Jones, Speaker and Author, or my website, Donna Jones.org. And don't forget to subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss a single episode. And as always, my friend, I can't wait to see you next time for that's just what I needed. Yes, for women over 40 who are ready to rise, rebuild and reclaim their story. Each week you'll hear powerful comeback stories from women who've walked through the fire

32:03and come out stronger if you're navigating chain or dreaming about what's next you're not alone. Follow Hope for the journey on your favorite podcast app and find the hope that you've been looking for. I'm Mark Vinet, host of the Historical Jesus Podcast, which presents the new series Miracles, focusing on biblical miracles from the old and new testament. Join me on the Historical Jesus Podcast as I explore the interesting, compelling, intriguing and wonderful miracle stories of the Bible and the many great miraculous events inspired by the words and deeds of Jesus Christ.