Loading...
Loading...

Matt Smallbone is the pastor of Church of the City’s downtown campus here in Nashville, and we’re continuing with a bit of a theme today as we talk again this week about The Lord’s Prayer. Every time we talk about it during this prayer series though, I feel like there’s something new to see and something deeper to understand. It’s wild how a prayer so familiar, so memorized, so repeated, can still surprise us.
Matt has written a brand new book called The Prayer Experiment that comes out in April and you’re going to love.
We're unpacking all of this over on spirituallystronger.com too, so please come join us as we process together over there!
Thank you to our sponsors!
NYTimes bestselling Christian author, speaker, and host of popular Christian podcast, That Sounds Fun Podcast, Annie F. Downs shares with you some of her favorite things: new books, faith conversations, entertainers not to miss, and interviews with friends.
Sign up to receive the AFD Week In Review email and ask questions to future guests!
#thatsoundsfunpodcast
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Hi friends and welcome to another episode of that sounds fun, spiritually stronger. I'm your
host Annie F. Downs and I'm so happy to be here with you today as we continue wildly talking
about the Lord's Prayer. We've got a bit of a theme going on here. Yes, we meant to talk
about prayer, but yeah, this is just very fascinating how this has all played out. So today on
the show, I get to talk with my friend one of my favorite pastors, Pastor Matt Smallbone. You
may recognize that last name because we've had some of Matt's cousins on the show Joel and Luke
Smallbone from Freaking in Country and his cousin Rebecca St. James. So I'm clearly a big fan of
all the small bones including my buddy Matt. He is the pastor of Church of the Cities downtown
campus here in Nashville and here's what happened. He wrote an entire book about prayer and I was
like, well, this is perfect. It's coming out in a couple of weeks. I would love to talk to you
about it. And then when I got it, it was about the Lord's Prayer. And so I thought, okay,
wow, we're going to trust this. Every time we talk about it during this prayer series, every time
we've talked about the Lord's Prayer last week and this week, I feel like there's something new to
see and something deeper to understand. It's been fascinating to me how a prayer that's so familiar
and so memorized by so many of us, so repeated can still be so surprising. So today's conversation
feels very on theme and right on time. His book is called The Prayer Experiment. It comes out in
April. You are going to love it. You can go ahead and pre-order now. But whether the Lord's
Prayer is felt old or overly familiar to you, I think this conversation like last weeks with Brad
Gray and Brad Nelson is going to breathe fresh life into it. I'm curious if you're like me and
prayer is just kind of fallen into your new habits in the morning. I'm trying to do that every day.
We're unpacking more of it over on spirituallystronger.com too. So join us over there as we process this
together. Okay, here's our part two about the Lord's Prayer. I don't know. Here's a continuing
conversation that the Lord has laid out for us with my friend Pastor Matt Smallbone.
Pastor Matt Smallbone. Welcome to that sounds fun. Hi, Annie. I am sorry it's taken us this long
to get you here. We have been a Jason lived adjacent lives in Nashville for I've been back here for
12 years. Yeah, so the entire time. Yeah, yeah. And I feel like I've known you most of that. When I first
moved here, everyone was like they because we're both sevens and any Graham was just hitting.
Everyone's like, you know, Annie, and I'm like, I don't know if it's any. There's the seven who I'm
going to love. Don't tell me who I'm going to love. Yeah, you can't boss me. Man, I'm so glad you're
here today. Thank you for doing this. Everyone is going to recognize the last name because we've had
multiple family members of yours on here. Cousins with for King and Country. Yeah, John Luke. Yeah.
Cousins with Rebecca St. James. Yeah, I was her first bass player in 1997. That's my first
trip to America. No way. Yeah, a lot of fun. They needed a cheap bass player. Did they show that
in the movie? Yeah, I was like, did they say it was you? No, it's no, but I got a disproportionate
amount of airtime for the three months I was here in that story. What was it like going watching?
I mean, you live that with your family. What was it like to have a movie that your cousins made about
that time and everybody's like, it's all being sort of made it kind of a couple now. Yeah, it's
it's really it's first of all, it's cool just seeing the family at that that story being told.
And so a lot of that stuff I was living in Australia. Yeah, it was happening. So
and then Uncle Dave called to see if I could come play this all about God tour with Rebecca.
So I kind of, you know, it was bass player, but we're setting up all sorts of things for her as
well and really being her support. She was I'm 19 days older than her. Okay. So our joke is always
like I was fixed. I was fixating on objects way before she could even see stuff out. I've always
been a little further further down the path than she is. So we were best friends growing up,
but then they left Australia when we were, you know, 12 or 13. Yeah. And then she became famous
and out of nowhere. Yeah. So it was so watching all these moves is I'm unbelievably fun. You have
famous actors playing your grandpa and those are the hard things for me seeing someone play
grandpa small bone. Yeah. It's just like tend to cry a bit. Yeah. I remember when we were at that
early screening of unsung hero, I remember almost all the family was crying. Yeah. And I was like,
y'all, wow, this is like still feels very fresh to everybody. It's just it's a beautiful story. I
mean, we know it well. Obviously, I think there's just something about seeing someone play family
members and and you know, we we're in Australia. This is obviously pre-internet when all this
going down. So it actually kind of in some ways painted the behind the scenes for me as well.
But it's, you know, they're remarkable folks, you know, every now and then you feel like a
bit of a loser because you haven't won a Grammy or something like you know, like family dinners and
stuff like that. How did you end up a pastor when you started a bass player? You could still be
anywhere bass player for for King and Country. Yeah. So I was also in the movie playing for them
for the one I played one show with them. So it all worked out. It all worked out great. So how
why pastoring? I realized so I ended up touring with with Michael W Smith. So I moved up with an
Australian band and back back was kind of winding down for the first time as as I came over. So
moved over with with an Australian band, Alibaster box and then ended up touring with Michael W Smith
for a number of years. As a bass player? Yeah, as his bass player. There was a, I remember on
particular show in South Africa where I realized I felt like I was faking worship. And I had a bit of
a, I kind of, it was before it was a cool thing to do, but had a bit of a deconstruction moment. And
I can, I can just remember having these strange thoughts while we're on stage of kind of whether
that, whether I believed some of this stuff. And I felt a bit, I felt a bit fraudulent.
And so I kind of, you know, so that's, that kicked off a weird, a weird era for me. I didn't
want to dishonor, you know, Michael W by, by being the, the guy who was trying to figure out his
faith in real time. I just kind of hit, you know, most people deal with that stuff in their 16. It
took me till I was a little bit later to, to be willing to ask the hard questions. So I kind of
do it one of these days soon. I also had four kids at the time. It's an older son, Isaac,
when I'd leave. So there's something about my hair being wet and me holding a bass guitar
that he would just start getting really anxious, because he knew I was about to go for, you know,
three weeks. So it was, it was hard on, it was definitely hard on our little, on our little family.
And so it's just kind of a convergence of factors that I just knew. And I also think I don't love
music, like the lot of the, the folks who do it as well, like I would see how it would.
Music can just capture some people's hearts. And sometimes I'd just be out there going,
I think I'm holding down someone else's dream job, because this, this, this doesn't, I don't think
this does, does for me what it does, what it's supposed to do, and what it does for them. What
is the honest thing to say to yourself, I'm holding down someone else's dream job?
Yeah, that's what it felt like. That was, and you know, I, you know, getting off the road,
like we need our own little support groups. So we all have these, you know, various friends that
were, there were pivotal conversations that I had. Mine was with the bass player from Delirious.
Oh, really? Yeah, because he just kind of got off the road. And I said, what's it like out there,
man? Yeah. You know, and so that's a really, kind of, kind of helped me be brave enough to make
the move. The other thing that happened was we won, we, we won a green card in the green card lottery.
Oh, wow. And Mary was, yeah, and Mary was always convinced it wasn't for music. Like she's like,
I don't think we won this for that. And that was such a strange thing to say.
Like we figured we'd just, my plan was to just kind of keep riding the music thing.
Yes. You know, all the way to the top, if I could. And I was in touching distance of this,
you know, really been very lucrative and a, you know, done the 10,000 hours and all of that.
But anyway, we, you know, kind of just determined together. That was the right time to get off the
road. I figured I wanted to get off by the time I was 35. Okay. And then kind of got off at the age of
33. And through, and then, you know, the relationship through, through Michael W, just opened
up lots of doors. And so I was invited to, to work at a church in Daytona Beach, Florida,
in Orman Beach, Florida. And went down there and I was the connections guide,
sent at the table for people in community groups. So that was my job. Like, you know, I'd do the
connection cards on Monday morning and helpful in community. And then I officiated my cards and
Josh's wedding up here in Nashville. And we now boss from church city down Whitehead. So we
officiate that wedding and asked me to move back to town. Wow. Yeah. So, so that was it. And then
I became we pastor of church of the city up here in the city. Where was prayer? Talk to me about
getting off the road in prayer. You were deconstructing in a way. Yeah. In a way. And then you're also
realizing, I'm not really, this, I'm not built for this. It's not built for me. Okay. So the
hardest thing that has ever happened, I've had some hard things happen. A lot of things work out.
We were playing and this, all of these, these are painful memories, but we were on a
West Coast tour with Michael W. Plain Worship music. It was one of the tours where it was. We
weren't too much of the pop stuff with, you know, an entire back end of the set in B flat. You
were just going for it an hour. But I woke up on a Saturday morning. I turned my phone off,
which I shouldn't have done. Like if you're touring, you can't really, and you've got family at
home. It's a, it's a bad call to silence your phone, but I was very tired. I'd worked for two
hours the day before, you know. But you were a dental 1030. Exactly. But there was a text from Mary
and I missed all of it where she said, but so we knew her pregnant with our fourth baby and she
was bleeding. And by the time, you know, I probably slept three or four hours past the first text,
she was at hospital and she miscarried the baby while I was on tour. And for me, I stopped praying
after this because I was like, what's, what's the point? I'd answer prayer. So we lost this little
baby, he ended up playing the show that night. It was just, Michael's like, man, go, do whatever
you need to do, you know, go home, whatever. And there was just one of those weird ones where I was
going to get home one hour earlier by not playing this show. Right. Right. It was like the flights
tomorrow either way. Yeah. Right. So all that. So we ended up, you know, did not take in the red eye,
came home and really just kind of stopped talking to God for years, even as I re-ended into ministry.
So it was kind of like this sort of secret I was keeping. And there was, there was theological
barriers like I believe in the sovereignty of God, like I learned that at Bible college. But and
you read all through the book of John, like, you know, if you pray this in my name, it'll be done
for you. I'm like, what? Why are you giving these guys parking spaces at Kroger? Right. And,
and we're praying for the rescue of Ella, baby, and you wouldn't do that. And so I,
I was pretty young in my faith, honestly, when it got down to it. One of the disadvantages
of being good at music from a young age is you get put on platforms a bit before you're ready
for it. And people think you might be actually really a great Christian when we'd have done any
of the work. So you learned to fake it a bit. Yes. So that was really the first tragedy that
had come my way that we had to deal with. So it would have been in my early 30s when that happened.
And so I'm just like going, so I just really, I've always loved Jesus. So that's been the weird bit.
Like I had to unlearn some things, which I think that's that's healthy deconstruction.
Yeah, that's right. You should deconstruct with a, you know, in a very fine and controlled way.
But um, and so I didn't, I didn't burn the house down. We kept going to church. I honestly
kind of didn't know how to do life without Jesus or church really. So it wasn't, it wasn't quite as
dramatic as some other deconstructions that I've seen. But I definitely didn't feel like talking to
God was that helpful because he didn't come through for me on that one. But I threw myself
into learning the Bible. And so I've always been very disciplined with Bible study. I like,
I like the head stuff, but I've been a bit hesitant about the heart stuff. Hey, welcome to
be in a seven. Yeah. Yeah. Because the head stuff we can make sense out of. Yeah. I can read
that scripture when, when the heart stuff goes sideways. Yeah. I don't know what to do about that.
Yes. So I think that's such an important part as I was reading about, I'm very sorry about
the miscarriage. Yeah. By the way, um, there's a baby waiting for you. Yeah. There's a, I mean,
I just, I have so many thoughts about when my nephew TJ died. Yeah. There were so many, he lived
for 56 days and every night. I said, Lord, he's still here. You can do it. Yeah. You could change
a story. And he didn't. Yeah. And so I grieved some of that with you that how, how does God not do
the thing we're asking to do and what we're asking to do is an alignment with what scripture says.
Yeah. How did you ever get over that hump of? By 15, 15 years later, I've now reconciled it.
And part of it has been, been jumping back into prayer. Like I, you know, the embarrassing thing
about this book I've written on, on the Lord's Prayer is I was written because I wasn't good at
prayer. Yeah. And my job made me teach a series on it last January. Yeah. And I just had to really
just go, man, I, in my entire life, I've tried different versions of prayer. I've, I've also thought
personality wise, I'm, I'm just, I've, you know, we've got all these friends who get up at 5 a.m.
And I've actual prayer closets. I wonder whether I did have the right personality for like a
silent retreat for me is like, no, thanks. You know, like it's just, I don't, I don't have,
I've never been felt like that kind of super spiritual person. But I feel like I've been helpful
to the kingdom from being able to teach the Bible in that. That's right. But just like the prayer
thing felt for other, seemed to be for other people. So anyway, I, I realize as I'm teaching this,
that Jesus clearly says this then is how you should pray. And I went, gosh, I've tried everything
else except for the actual way that, that Jesus taught humans how to pray. So I just dug in and,
and taught it, taught it, and prayed it for the entire year. Several times. That's all, you
pretty much all I did really. That's the prayer experiment. Wow. And you just did that. That's
all I did. How many times a day? One, two, one. Several. Yeah. And I was always interested in what
is it like to have a discipline spiritual life that doesn't involve waking up at like 4 a.m.
Because I'm like going, I've tried that for 48 years. I couldn't, and it was a bit shame in
juicing. And so I just thought, look, well, God's made me this way. I don't know if it was the best
decision he's ever made, but it's like, you know, I'm not, I'm not built like some of these,
some of my heroes are. So I just, just started just going, all right, you know, Jesus does this bit
about, you know, go into a room, close the door and pray this way. Give some real clear
glance on how not to pray. Yeah. I did a bunch of the how not to pray stuff as well. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Praying like a Pharisee. Yeah. Genius at that. Yeah. That's right.
Praying like a pagan genius like that. I'm not good at praying in public. I'm like, I'm so much
better at praying in public. I can pray in public three times a day. Yeah. Yeah. Get me in a
quiet place. That's it's way worse. If you need a TED talk, dress up as a prayer. I got you. Yeah.
My last third of my sermon happens in the prayer. So yeah, I can go do that. So I just,
Matt, I get that. Yeah. So I just, it was, it was really unbelievable. Yeah.
I was kind of born out two or one days of prayer and fasting. I thought, you know,
why don't I just take Jesus seriously for a sec and just pray the way he tells me to. Yeah. So.
Hey, friends. Just interrupt in this conversation and tell you about one of our incredible partners
our place. If you're gearing up for some spring cleaning and your kitchen,
daring spring break, or you're on the hunt for the right gift for a bridal shower.
I need you to know about our place. Not only are they the best nonstick pans.
Seriously, your scrambled eggs or over medium is going to slide right off.
But they're completely free from toxins. So many pots and pans and appliances out there are
still made with forever chemicals, which none of us want our food. But our place has saved
that day and they would make such a great gift. They're cookware is adorable.
Truly, there are so many fun colors to choose from. Here's one perfect piece to start with.
Check out. They're always pan. It's their iconic best selling 10 and one pan.
You can braise, sear, fry, bake. You can bake with it. Y'all, it does it all. I think you and your
friends are going to love it. So stop cooking with toxic cookware. Upgrade to our place today.
Visit from our place.com slash TSF. Look around. See what you love and use the code TSF like that
sounds fun. And my friends are going to get 10% off site wide with 100 day risk free trial,
free shipping and returns. You can experience this game changing cookware with zero risk.
That's from our place.com slash TSF and the code is TSF.
And another incredible partner. I get to tell you about a brodo. Listen, let's keep talking about
what's going on in our kitchens. If you're morning, coffee or tea just isn't quite cutting it
lately. What if instead you reach for a steaming cup of something nourishing bone brothless and it's
a great idea. It's one way to support your gut health. It's a great way. It's actually very
delicious and brodo's bone broth is the best. We got a shipment sent here to the office and we
had ourselves a little bone broth party for lunch one day and brodo comes in eight different
delicious flavors from the classic chicken to the spicy no nuts to more creative blends like ginger,
turmeric, urban fused or veggie based broths. I recommend trying their sample packs so you can
figure out for yourself what flavor is best for you. Okay, listen, there's one where they've
mixed together beef, chicken and turkey. Oh my gosh, it is so good. It is my total favorite.
Shop the best broth on the planet with brodo. My friends get ahead to brodo.com slash
that sounds fun. And you're going to get 20% off your first subscription order and you use the
code that sounds fun. You're going to get $10 dollars off you guys. Once again, that's brodo
brodo.com backslash that sounds fun for 20% off your first subscription order and an additional
$10 dollars off when you use our promo code that sounds fun. This time of year feels like a fresh
start, doesn't it? And sometimes families need one too. That's where capstone wellness comes in
for young men struggling with trauma, mental health or addiction capstone treatment center provides
residential care that rebuilds trust and responsibility in a Christ centered environment.
Their program blends proven therapy with real life application, including their unique puppy
program. Every young man is paired with a Labrador Retriever puppy when he arrives. And that same
puppy goes home with them when he graduates. The residential care has been so helpful for so
many families, including some of our that sounds fun families. But not every family needs residential
care through vine plus root intensives. They also offer multi day therapy intensives for focused
work over three to five days. Different levels of care, same heart, same commitment to clinical
excellence. You can learn more at capstonewellness.com slash that sounds fun. That's capstonewellness.com
slash that sounds fun. Okay, now back to our conversation with Matt Smallbone.
We're strategic and thoughtful when we plan these series. But we didn't mean to do two episodes
about two books back to back about the Lord's Prayer. And I've never thought about the Lord's
Prayer as much as I have in these last few weeks. What is it, Matt? What is it about those words?
And that the way, I mean, I want us to go to the six movement movements in just a second. But
what is it about these that this prayer that matters so much to you and matters to all of us?
So what is wild is the disciples who knew how to pray. These were Jewish boys who prayed at
least three times a day. So part of when Jesus is talking about prayer and this is how you pray,
I think there's, I think there's an assumption that it was like at least three times a day.
This stuff going on. So what's interesting is Jesus is saying, pray this way and do it,
do it many times. I think Jesus is understands deeply how humans are made. And I think it's important,
what I've learned is important to pray all of it and in order and you tend to camp out at one
of the movements. Every day something grabs you. Yeah. And so each movement, you know, early on,
I mean, that you begin with our father, right? So here's how I normally pray. Hey, Jesus,
I'm going to need to value out of this situation. I've got myself in in this very specific way.
It's going to have to go like A, B and C, A men. Yeah. And that's, and oh, and sometimes,
you know, thank you for this day. That's all. That's like that. So I, when you actually just dig
into this prayer, the genius of this prayer is that it's like, it's simple enough for a total
of memorized and it just keeps theologians enthralled for a lifetime. Yeah. So what has surprised me
is I haven't didn't get bored once in the entire year as I as I dug into this. Not one time.
No, no, no, because something will stand out to you each time. So you know, you're starting with
our father. Yes. It had never occurred to me that I'm not God's only child. Right. So you begin
with our, the pronouns actually really matter in the words of prayer. So my prayers are always like,
hey, here's what's going on. I'm really frustrated with this person could fix it. This is how I'm
going to need you to do it. But when you start with our father, you start to realize you can't
really only child your way to God that God is managing all of these prayers of all of these children.
Our father in heaven. So it's in the heavens like King James version translates. It's the same
word that is like birds of the air. So there's this air component to it that a lot of my favorite
theologians picked up. So it really goes our father. So I'm not just praying for me. It's a,
it's a communal thing. My father who's as close as the air. And I'm telling you, I'm quite
often the first time I pray this is when I'm driving to work. And I'm just sitting there feeling
like, man, God is, God is close with me. So you have this moment of adoration. And sometimes
that's enough. So there are times where, you know, I'm disciplining going through the whole thing.
But that is, that was an incredible breakthrough for me. Remembering I'm part of a family,
it's not just God and me. First of all, I'm not the, you know, it's not the true man show.
You know, it's by the way, watching it with my kids again. But this is, there's a lot of kids
forgot to take care of. So I'm going to bring you my perspective. Man, that's important to hear too
when you think about the people you don't like. And when you think about the, whether it's a group
of people you don't get along with, the people who voted different than you or the mom in your
kids class who's talking about you. Totally. Our father is like, hey, I'm coming to you and you love
all of us. So if I, if you and I are in a disagreement and, and you know, so I'm trying to
pray this thing three times a day, I'm like, I'm going, because I know I'm about to pray about you
and whatever dumb thing you just said and how hurt me. I'm like, our father and I'm going, gosh,
he's, she's got her perspective that she's bringing from this other angle as well. It's been,
it's been, it's been very just, it's been a very clarifying perspective. Then it's not me,
because I realize I just pray me prayers. Yeah. And this is, and this is, Jesus, very clearly,
this is an hour, hour thing. Yeah. You know, hallowed be your name, your holy, and you can just
stay there for a long time too. Like that's the, that's kind of the, why don't we use that word
hallowed and hello anymore? Because it's, it's a weird, I used to think it was, I used to think it
was Harret when I was little Harold would be my name. I wonder why I ask Methodist kids so much
about this Harold do, you know? So yeah, it's, it just means holy. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's,
that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. It's just sort of like, so then you're like, our father,
who's as close as the air, you're kind of holy and perfect. And I'm coming to you as one of,
as one of many. And, and let's, it's, it's, it's, that's how we're framing this thing up.
You're holy. Yeah. I'm not. Yeah. And, but I'm about to bring you some stuff and start some. Yeah.
And so there, there really is two real sections to this. There's the first half is about God.
And the second half is about us. And so when you get to the hallowed be on a,
your kingdom come, you will be done. So we, I mean, that's where I get stuck the most. Like,
okay, God, I just need your kingdom to come. Your kingdom is just, your kingdom is fair,
your kingdom is honest, your kingdom is close. I often get stuck there. Why does it matter that
we pray and order though? Why, and why do we need it? I mean, I, we need to finish it. I'm not sure
if we need to. Ah, okay. I'm one year into it. And I need to. Right now. I'm, I'm sure there's
people who are deeper into it. And, and, and you know, it'll, it's all very conversational as well.
So you kind of just camp out. I just camp out at each, each, each movement. Yeah.
And, and spend some time there. I just do think there's a reorientation of the heart that's very
important. And obviously if you're, you know, an emergency, God help. Yes. It's going to be
plenty enough. Yes. But, you know, you're acknowledging that God is holy. And then, and then I,
another massive internal change comes, we go on, hey, I'm about to ask you for some things.
But ultimately, would your will be done? Yeah. And, and that, and that's, that's part of the
stuff that ends up helping you deal with unanswered prayer. Because you go on into this thing going,
all right, I'm one of many children with an idea. Yeah. And, and, and this is, this is,
this is kind of how I want it to go down. But I'm telling you, like quite often, when I'm praying
through a situation, I'll be like, hey, I'm about to have this difficult conversation with Annie.
Yeah. And it could go, and this is my plan. Yes. Would your will be done? And I'm going to
need you to jump in on this. Because God, this is, this is, this is where we're headed. So quite,
quite often, that's how it goes. Do you, um, unanswered prayers is so messy,
because Garth Brook sings. Thank God, thank God for unanswered prayers, right? But everyone is
sitting at home or on their treadmill or in the car right now. And they could, they could list
off as many unanswered prayers as we had time to hear. You did a beautiful job writing about this.
And it was one of the things I wrote down to ask you about in quoting Pete Gregg's book,
about unanswered prayers. But like, smalls, how do we survive a life where, this is a dramatic
question, how do we survive a life where the thing, let me ask about me, how do I survive a life
where the thing I want to do most is make sure people know God and love God. I want them to know
Jesus is who he says he is. And sometimes it makes me feel like I need to hide my unanswered prayers
because I need to make sure everybody knows he's great. Yeah. But I am carrying piles of unanswered
prayers too. Yeah, it's, it's difficult. I think, I think I've, I'm resigned to the fact that
there will be unanswered prayer. Yeah. Like on, on this side of eternity, that's just kind of how,
how it works. I think, um, we get glimpses of the in breaking kingdom of God into our lives.
And they're moments to be celebrated. Um, I think, I think there's always going to be sad things
on here. I think that's just the setup. Um, but I am learning that if you don't, if you're not
carrying these, if you're not carrying these things alone, you're going to be okay. Even,
even without, even without deepest sadness, I think if you're in isolation and alone,
um, without real human community, without real legitimate friendship with God, I think these
things are unbearable. I think we, I think we're given the tools to manage the heart. Like a lot
of the New Testament, Jesus, Jesus, brother James, a lot of his book is kind of explaining some of
the Jesus stuff, like, like, it's, it questions like this. Um, and he's, he's just super clear that
like struggle is just kind of what it's about when it comes to human, human development. So
something about just the way the world is set up that we don't, we don't get to be everything we
can be, uh, without it being, without it being a struggle. And I think about it, all of the
most wonderful things I have in my life have, have come at a, at a high cost, um, for a lot of
effort. Yes. And I think struggles just, just sort of part of it. But I, I, I get what you're saying,
like, you know, in our church, a lot of single girls, you know, for example, and we've just done 21
days of prayer. Yeah. And like so many people in our church just want to meet somebody and fall
in love and be taken care of and take care of somebody else. And it's a really deep wound.
The ones that I see managing at the best have a rich friendship with Jesus. Um, and without that,
I, I, I really think these wounds are so deep that actually Jesus is the only answer to them. That
is what I have concluded in, in my late 40s. That wouldn't have satisfied me in my early 30s.
Sure. So same. Yeah. And I agree with you now too. I mean, I, I, you know, you know, my story really
well, but I, and I am not married yet. I am, you know, thinking back in my 30s and how often I would
grieve with the Lord that I didn't have a partner. And then a year and a half ago when I drove over
the state line from New York to Vermont, and it was my 50th state, I cried and said to Jesus,
you and I have done all 50 states together. That's exactly how I would have written it if I'd
had a choice. But, but 32 year old Annie couldn't have imagined unanswered prayers would lead to
this right, right. Grateful tear, tear, tear filled moment at 43. Yeah. What a great experience.
Me and Jesus in all 50 states. And so I can see that too. But it's so hard to for prayer not to go
the way you think it's. Well, every situation there's, there's, there's a pretty good Jesus
answer to it. So a singleness like Jesus and Paul was single. Right. And it turned out pretty good.
Turn out grateful. Yeah. So, um, and, you know, I would just say marriage is beautiful and hard
and singleness is beautiful and hard. Yeah. Um, there's some things you've been able to do and
build out this massive thing that I haven't been able to. Yes. And I don't know, I don't,
I don't want to pretend I understand how that feels when you're, when you're home in a quiet house
and lonely at night. Yeah. Um, but I think we'd both at times be willing to trade some of that.
That's right. For some of that. That's right. You know, so I mean, I called my mentor last week and I
said, I was asking her about my daily, she said, sorry, is this whole thing just apologizing all
the time? She's like, yeah. I was like, I feel like we were apologizing back and forth constantly.
And I'll tell you what I want to do in 10 months ago. Apologize in all the time. I'll just live my
life. And I feel like I apologize and get apologize to constantly. There's a little bit of apologizing
in your future. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a lot. Um, but I think there's a version of that for all of
things. For every person, for people wanting to have kids, for people wanting a different house.
I just don't think every desire we have, we fully understand actually what we're asking for.
So I think God, I think, you know, the thank God for unanswered prayers. Like I mean, if I'd
have had all of my prayers answered as a fourth grader, I'd be married to Madonna and working in a
circus right now. You know, and what if you were married to Madonna working in a circus?
Oh, really? I know. What a dream. It's pretty easy to sell some books. But you know, I mean, like,
I just feel like I'm the older I get, the more I realize the gap there is between my wisdom,
which I'm growing less and less confident in as I age and that of God, like it's just sort of,
it's sort of the price of entry when you're doing business with a with a higher power.
Yeah. Where it's just like, yes. I, you know, at some point, you've just got to go listen. I don't,
I don't love this script. Yeah. And you've given it to me. And when you get reps in over the years,
you really do see the unanswered prayers that I've had in my life. I'm
as long as they're like far enough in the rearview mirror. I'm actually really grateful for almost,
for almost all of them. Like, I wanted to be a rock star. And I, you know, I like being home.
Like, you know, the 200, the 200 nights away year, every other year, like the Nashville,
Nashville life, it just wasn't built for that. But it's definitely what I, definitely what I wanted.
And now also the Lord has you pastoring it. How miserable. Do you know what I mean? Like,
you would think like, well, why would you make that trade? Yeah. I never wanted to do the pastoring
thing. And so God just, just knows how He's made us. And I think there are just times where I've,
I've learned, and it takes, this is not, this is not, this is hard, this is hard to do as a younger
person. But with, with some reps in you just look in the rearview mirror and go, gosh, I just,
it's clear that this is what I was put here for. I had to get here somehow. So when the Lord's
prayer shifts to us asking for things, how does that, how does that work in your day and a day out?
Yeah. So you've, you've just prayed for that your kingdom come, which, which basically means
with the way things are in heaven, like the, your design for the way things are meant to work with
that happen. And would you will be done? So we all have these little wheels that we carry around.
Many of us, it, it doesn't exert far, but there is a space in our lives where we can do whatever
we want, whenever we want. So we all have our wheels and it's surrendering that, that's based
to God and saying, you know, let's, let's do it your way. So there's this, there's this reorientation
of the heart by this point. And so by the time you're, you're coming to asking for our daily bread,
by the way, not mine. Yeah. This is, oh, yeah, give us a shot the front door. Yeah. Our daily bread.
Yeah. So it's sort of like also at that point, I, I try to be really a bit diligent in remembering
that because I've only ever prayed for my daily bread. I am only praying for our daily bread.
Yeah. So that's super interesting. So you're praying to our father. I'm not known
with a child. Yeah. Our daily bread. I find them mentally. Yeah. And so some, a lot of the
unanswered prayers I've have, I think is because I'm praying for my daily bread, which is probably
hurting somebody else or something along the way. Yeah. So, so, so you pray for that, but here's
what's weird. And we're all good at that bit, like going to God with what we need, that's usually
where we start. In the provision, I can, I can list provision. Okay. And he, Gary, for this. So
Jesus tells these guys how to pray several times a day. He says, by the time you're asking for
things, guess what he says next? You ask for forgiveness from God and you forgive somebody else.
So for last year, I've been forgiving people several times a day. So what I'm realized is I've,
I've had an entirely wrong approach to forgiveness. So I would just carry on a bucket of unforgiveness.
I want to got too heavy to bear. I'd find the easiest thing to forgive. I'd get that out just
so I could bear my life and you know, I can walk around Kroger without being scared of bumping
into too many people. Yeah. You know, the biggest surprise for me so far has been how easy it is
actually to forgive when it becomes something you do several times a day. Yeah. And it's, and I,
and I don't let myself opt out of it. I search my heart. So you're asking, so you're asking for the
thing and then you're pivoting straight to God. Forgive me. Forgive me for whatever I've done.
And I try and name something. And so these days, I'm trying to think of something in the last
eight hours, not the last 10 years. Right. Right. So there's, and it's a lot easier to forgive the
thing that happened in the last six hours usually than the thing that happened. Yes. You know,
10, 20 years ago. But also it means you don't run out of things to get forgiven for or you don't
run out of people to forgive. No. And then you've just got to, yeah. And then you, then you're
forgiving someone. And so it's just a very lightweight to live. And it has probably been fundamentally
the biggest kind of switch for me is that I'm just walking around in this light state of unforgiveness.
Because I just can't hang on to things. You end up, you end up like, you end up not with that
many people to forgive. And so I just really, you end up really forgiving like the little hurts
that come your way. It's been so incredibly free. It's really interesting. Like I was saying about
talking to Nancy about, am I just going to say sorry for the rest of my life and this relationship
and, and GW as well, I'm very good at forgiving someone who says to my face, we forgive me.
I am not as good at sitting and going, man, that person really hurt me. Lord, I'll forgive him.
I'll let him, I'll swipe wipe that slate clean. I don't do that as much as I do when it's face-to-face.
Yeah. Well, if you did it several times a day. So here's the surprise. It's surprisingly easy
when you make it a rhythm that you do. Now, forgiveness, everyone's got to hear this. It's not the
same as reconciliation. That's right. Very, very important part of this.
Forgiveness, when fully understood, is totally safe. So there's some people listening in, go and
do honestly. Like if I was to forgive, if Jesus asked me to forgive that person for doing that
thing and us go on and live our lives like that thing never happened, like I'm out. Like I have
no interest in following such a cruel God. But that's not what biblical forgiveness is.
Jesus does this whole 70 times seven thing or 77 times. It's just like Jesus argues for unlimited
and regular forgiveness is what he argues for. But not unlimited reconciliation. Yes.
And you really need to be wise. Yes. But really, forgiveness is releasing someone from the moral
debt that they owe you. Yes. And choosing, and it's also choosing not to bring it up again.
That's legitimate, legitimate forgiveness is a pretty, is a very free thing for humans to do.
Yes. But reconciliation is not always possible. Yes. And that's so everyone here that.
When a counselor I love said to me one time, we can offer, we can offer unconditional love,
we do not have to offer unconditional relationship. Right. Right. And I, and that was so helpful
for me to go like, oh, yeah, I can still love and not be in relationship. Yeah. Sometimes friendships
and on planet earth. And it's really painful. But Jesus seems to, to argue that it's possible
to be in a state of forgiveness. Yes. So that was what's messed us up about that is social media.
Right. Because I literally was just saying to a friend yesterday that I quit doing Facebook
a few years ago because I was watching people from middle school who I do not, I couldn't get to
them if I tried outside of Facebook. But I knew their kids names. It was sports teams they were
on. And like, so there's something that social media friending has done that has led us to believe
that no friendships are meant to be seasonal. Everything has to last forever. Right. And that's
just not, that was actually never true. Yeah. But now we have this social construct that says,
well, if you are Facebook friends, your friends. Yeah. Yeah. When you read through the some,
when you read through the Proverbs actually, we talked about this couple weeks ago at church.
I'm not this much of a Bible nerd, but I literally know. I'd have them three weeks ago. But one of
the, one of the Proverbs actually talks about not having too many friends. So it basically says,
be careful. Like it's basically talking about having too many acquaintances isn't the way,
but there is a friend who will stand by you and everything. Yes. Yes. Seems like Proverbs
is arguing for just a handful of, of the life. Yes. Yes. Which is not how I'm wired at all.
No, no. I want to be in great standing with several hundred people. Oh, all of them. I want
to be in great standing with all of them. However many there in the room, I want to be miscommunity
all of the time. And that is not playing out in my life. But forgiveness
matters. So this was really interesting. You've asked for your thing. And then you're just
forgiving, asking God to forgive you. Yes. It's a very humble way to live. This, this prayer just
understands the human condition. Yes. And it just chips, it chips away at our brokenness.
Hey, friends. Just interrupted this conversation one more time to tell you about one of our
incredible partners. One of my favorites. It's Thrive Cosmetics. Y'all know me. I love a fun
lip color. I just feel like a little more ready for the day or for recording a podcast when I've
got my favorite lipstick on. So what is it for you? Maybe you've got a favorite perfume or
eyeliner or mascara that you do not leave home without. If you're looking for some new makeup
options, let me tell you about my favorites. It's Thrive Cosmetics. They are about to brighten
your spring. You guys all of their products are 100% vegan, cruelty free made with clean,
skin friendly ingredients designed to support your skin, not stress it. Okay. My personal favorite
is their liquid lash extension mascara. Y'all know this. It gives you that long full lash look
without clumping or flaking. It honestly makes such a difference. And what makes me love the brand
even more is their impact. Thrive has donated over $150 million in products and funds to more
than 600 nonprofit partners across the country. You can amplify your spring look with Thrive Cosmetics.
Go to Thrive Cosmetics.com slash TSF. And my friends get an exclusive offer of 20% off your
first order. That's Thrive Cosmetics. C-A-U-S-E-M-E-T-I-C-S dot com slash TSF.
And one more amazing partner I get to tell you about this episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.
Well, listen, March includes International Women's Day, which is a moment to celebrate women's
strength and progress while also recognizing how much we carry every day. Between caring for
others and managing unseen responsibilities, our emotional well-being can easily be overlooked.
We want to remind each other how much we matter and that therapy offers a space for you to take
care of yourself in the way you need. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's
largest online therapy platforms. Having served over five million people globally and it works
with an average rating of 4.9 out of five for a live session based on over 1.7 million client
reviews. That is some good math right there, y'all. You just got to fill out a short questionnaire.
We love a quiz and that'll help identify your needs and preferences. And then they're going to
match you with a licensed therapist. And if you aren't happy with your match, you can switch to
a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. Your emotional well-being
matters. So find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up today and my friends get 10% off at
BetterHelp.com slash that sounds fun. That's better. Help H-E-L-P dot com slash that sounds fun.
Listen, I know we're placing the sheets you put on your bed is one of the things you never
think about washing them. Sure, but buying new ones I never think to do it. But if your sheets are
pilling thinning slipping or overheating, that's your sign that it's time to upgrade to
bull and branch. Bull and branches signature sheets are made from 100% organic cotton and
designed to hold their shape, stay breathable and feel luxuriously soft night after night.
You're going to fall asleep faster, stay comfortable all night and actually notice the difference
the moment you get into bed. And they don't wear out. They get softer with each wash. Plus,
you can make it even better by adding their coveted waffle bed blanket y'all. I have one and I
absolutely love it. It has these layers and layers of the finest organic cotton. So basically,
your bed is a deeply comforting retreat that is there anytime you need it. Sleep sound with
bull and branch. My friends get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bull and branch
dot com slash that sounds fun and use the code that sounds fun. That's bull and branch B-O-L-L-A-N-D
branch dot com slash that sounds fun and the code is that sounds fun and that's how you unlock
15% off exclusions apply and now back to finish up our conversation with Matt.
Did it start faster and it's gotten slower the the prayer as you pray it was at the first few
times like our father doesn't have an how would be the name and then you kind of upgrade and now
it's got like this takes me an hour. Annie, I used to find press so boring and I'd hear people talk
about how I just got lost in God. I don't know. Did you really? I've become that person
in one year from like a reluctant prayer to someone who just kind of sort of loves being with God.
I'd missed the whole world. I'd had spent a lot of years doing stuff for God but not with God.
And I think I was a pretty good soldier along the way but there's there's there's much more
available to us and it's just the thought I mean so press just prayer is you know it's very core
it's like humans in communicating with God. Such a what an opportunity we have. When you think
about between the Old Testament and new page and the New Testament 400 years then no one heard I'm
like I'm worried if I don't hear God on a Thursday and there were generations of people that
didn't have any direct contact. Yeah, never feeling alone is is on offer in this thing. It's
wild. Why does Jesus end it? You think with lead us not to temptation to deliver some evil.
So another nerdy Bible inside. Yeah, come on. We live for those. I think the better translation
is do not bring us to the test. There's a couple of weird lines. I'd give us give us this day
our daily bread. That's a whole thing because you wouldn't say that. No. Give me give me today my
daily. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. So there's there's there's a whole other thing
there. Lead us not to temptation. I think it's I think it's it's it's but I as I understand it my
favorite theologians talk about don't test me beyond what I can handle and and that is kind of how
I pray it these days because and by the time you're down here you've just part of the prayer of
often done some heavy stuff and let me tell you how beautiful it is just to say God don't don't
push me beyond this and and what an invitation from Jesus to have that kind of open communication
with God. That's right. That's right. And so sometimes I'll say God I'm read you know I'm read
lining it here I can't I need you to care I need some help on carrying on carrying this thing.
So I I think that's what it's about and so it's it's it's it's it's a mysterious phrase it's
one of mine actually asks Jesus about. Yeah. One day what did you really mean? Yeah. What's the
I mean with NT right on that because I was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have you written a whole book
on the or he's done a bunch on the New Testament. Yeah. So I'm sure if I quoted him in the book
but I do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But definitely like his kind of sermon on the mountain. Yeah. I mean
all the all the all the geniuses have got to hold it on the mountain. Yeah. You might not have an
answer to this. Yeah. But I'm curious. Is there something supernatural going on when we pray
the Lord's prayer that we can't see? Is there something going on in the spiritual that we can't see?
Well the final movement is is deliver us deliver us from evil. Right. So that's kind of where it all
ends. And so in my prayer life up to this point too I've never been that serious about there's an
enemy out there to take me down. And so every every prayer now finishes with this realization.
So I would say something deeply spiritual is happening. I think this prayer it I just think
it's very much a it impacts you positively, physically, spiritually and emotionally like it just
kind of the the order of it and the design of it just seems for me at least my experience I've
last year is it's just been precisely exactly what my heart have you felt delivered from evil?
I have been yeah totally. I mean there's you know so again I was I was raised Methodist. I
like I like to imagine it's you know I can mostly I can mostly think my way and yeah you know quite
time my way out of most of the things but I think I think all of us listening know that you've
walked into a room before or there's been a situation where you go something yeah something is
off here and you look at some of the seasons you've had or that your friends have had and you go
they there is some torment going on here this there's I think the world only makes sense to me
when when I surrender to the idea that there's an evil force who who hates me and has come and
has come and for me otherwise some of some of the pain just doesn't doesn't make sense outside of
that so I I don't know if that answers your question but I I have been praying for protection from
the evil one I pray it for my kids that's that's been a bit of a breakthrough for me as well just kind
of praying that just this fierce protection yes I roll out have you have you and Mary watched
Poldark no show from PBS it's a it's a PBS show it's one of the old I call it my old England
shows right and there's a bad guy on that show right that really hates Poldark and I said to my
team I when I think of how Satan actually feels about me that is the clearest I've ever seen
that because that guy spends the whole show right going what can I do to inflict right
pain on Poldark and I'm like oh that's what we're working with and Jesus said here's
what you say deliver me deliver me from evil and I think there's something really powerful
about Jesus doesn't say you should pray God give me the strength to not be forced into evil or
God give me right he says deliver me right and being delivered means right someone else is doing
the work not me yeah and so when you when you look at the classic spiritual warfare passages
in scripture like it's it's all defense and a sword which is the Bible so that's kind of like
there's this battle it's different from how we think about warfare but it's like that the important
verb in scripture is to stand yes the whole thing is stand stand stand do this so you can stand
it's not actually a lot of aggressive language in there right right it's you know it's it's
breastplates and it's and it's some it's it's protections that we can stand yes and so really
you know as I understand it currently that the spiritual warfare thing is about praying that we
can stand and and and we can we can stand amongst all the pressure when you've done all you can do
is stand stand stand stand stand stand stand yeah and I'm realizing in real time it's deliver us
from evil not me deliver us so who does who does he mean for me to be praying for besides myself
I I so the way it yeah these are these are great questions and I wrestled through this over the
first you know six months the way I I do it is I go into it going I think these are the things
I'm gonna pray about and I'll quite often you know I'll pray about you and me I'll pray about
this thing that's happening at work and I'll just run the whole thing for everybody so so
um deliver us from evil if if I'm if I'm talking about the you know a conflict that you and I
are experiencing yes I'll just I'll just let that kind of kind of kind of shape it so yes
yeah you've made a lot of references to us being in a fight yeah no no no no no no no currently yeah
who else can we have chosen yeah no it's just you and me yeah yeah I think that's really helpful
smalls because as I'm thinking about praying about this we we just did this right before you got
here we had another prayer conversation and I realized there's an area of our business that is
in total confusion and we have not stopped and prayed and so we all got in a room together
yeah and I was like we should pray and I was like no we're actually gonna pray right now right
we're gonna pray right now and I wish I'd have thought to say deliver us from evil like wherever
so I pray to now is we're talking ever there's evil involved in the confusion we're experiencing
just deliver us take us out of it and and so that I have a nuts and bolts question yes I want to
remember to pray the armor of God over myself every day I want to remember to pray the
Lord's Prayer do you have it hanging up somewhere how do you remember I so here's the thing
spiritual practices like I've gone for try going full rule of life yeah yeah yeah the nine things
are I can't we're not done Mark yeah I want to go I want to hit it all at once what I have learned
this last year is adding one in every year okay getting really proficient at it so really I was
focused I've kept all the other things I do lots of Bible reading yeah Sabbath has been very important
to me best out of the week yeah and um you know so last year I just added in praying the Lord's
prayer it's my spiritual discipline yeah and so it's just sort of like I'm it's
hard to forget it when there's only really kind of three things that you know that's right you're
doing so I just feel this like do I print it out and hang it up in my shower do I I got it I'm so
visual right then if I'm walking out of my house if the last thing I see is the armor of God I think
I'll go yeah okay yeah and I'd hate hate to have communicated that I pray the armor of God
every day but it's it's sort of like yeah that's the yeah it's it's more the awareness of the
spiritual battle that that I go down yeah like I would you would you protect me yes would you
protect me uh this is our last episode in the prayer um series before we go to fasting can you
tie them together a little bit you just pastor yeah you just pastored your church through a 21 day
of prayer and fasting yeah why do they both matter and how do they work better together um
so Jesus Himself said certain things can only be done yeah yeah yeah um which is you know that's
quite often it's helpful to give Jesus the last word uh on these things I think the thing is if
if you're fasting without praying you're just dieting yeah that's right and that's that's that's
not that's not the point of it so you know you're just depriving yourself yeah so like prayer with
fast you know fasting without prayer is it's it's not really achieving any of the things it can be
actually a totally selfish um pursuit so and I also think you can call me wrong in this I think
prayer or fasting without prayer really opened you up to attack yes because you're weak yeah
you're weaker in your body and you're not being fed by the Holy Spirit in the way you are when
you're fasting and praying together so I just get the times I've done it without praying I get
crushed so we we it just seems like an important part of following Jesus is having these intense
spiritual bursts from time to time for certain things so I would I would say it's important to ask
for some really really big prayers um when when we do prayer and fasting as a church I usually have
one thing for each of my kids yeah you know something for work and I write it down yeah um really
miracles like for me it's the miracle zone like what is the miracle that we what is the miracle
that we need to see yeah and then I pray for that and you know we've been doing it for six years now
and I'm growing for you know this year is really the first time where I'm I'm praying for something
that is there's no way I can I can manipulate it and so I'm I'm kind of praying for impossible
things and we've had some years where um it's actually been remarkably easy and I've kind of
flowed around other years where it's been really hard there are some one year had very specific
financial ask and I don't even necessarily believe in that like I don't I just I have a bit of a
hesitancy about praying for a certain amount of money but one of my kids has autism and it's
expensive and so we needed we needed a certain amount of money and I prayed for it and we had it
we had it within like the month and I'm like I don't want God to work this way in a way as it's a
weird it's a weird spot for me so um but we we pray for the hard things and write it down and
remember them yeah and because quite often a year later there's there's been real breakthrough
not not sometimes not the way you wanted but there's definitely there's been some movement
yes so it's just intense and so the idea is when instead of eating lunch you should go and pray
somewhere yeah and if you don't do that you may as well not fast you're just dieting yeah that's
beautiful yeah you speaking of well the book is excellent it's called the prayer experiment
how praying like Jesus realigns everything our thoughts our hearts and our posture toward God and
the world um you'd write about Isaac and your other kids so beautiful and marrying here so the
the story of when he got to college the pictures y'all put up I mean the whole it's just beautiful
I can't wait for people to read that that is so special we just pray for Isaac a lot yeah yeah
that's a big part of it yeah um finish us here the whole series yeah sorry to make you wrap up
series yeah uh why pray I will tell you I I was very good at praying when I first met Jesus
had my heart broken by some unanswered prayer um felt like I had very good reasons to uh honestly
we just put some walls out between me and God and um I think you slowly die on the vine
when that happens there's nothing you know I you know I live in East Nashville all of my millennial
friends deconstructed pretty hard and I'd hear a lot like I I just don't hear from God anymore and
God doesn't feel close and 100% of the time when I ask them like how's your prayer life they'll be
like I haven't prayed in years and so I I just think um the reason to pray is not to get
do the Lord's prayers very clear it's not to get everything you want whenever you want it's
actually about relationship with Jesus it's it's closing the door it's it's never being alone yeah
and it's um trusting that the God of the universe um actually listens to us yeah and uh that is a
that is a transforming way to live your life yeah thank you thank you for doing this it's the
best way to live yeah yeah it is not always the easiest way it is not the easiest way to live
it's the best way to live yeah and that's different um is there anything we didn't say you want
to make sure we say okay the book comes out April 28th you are very kind to come and finish the
series even though there's a couple weeks till the book is out but we can pre-order it now it shows
up on the right day at the right time so um the last question is always ask it's your first time
on the show which shocks me it is right so yeah we did I was thinking like have I forgotten about one
I've just been up here a lot last time I was here was to get that book for the yeah yeah when you
got a bunch it's one year ago yeah that's right I've um I've told that story a lot that your
church had a need for a handful of books of about where did TJ go we were honored to share it with
them um the last question we always ask pastor Matt small bone because the show is called that
sounds fun tell me what sounds fun to you everything I as an immigrant my cousins and I are planning
we're wanting to go to the Caribbean to watch a cricket game okay because now we all have real
jobs and stuff yeah and we can do that so it's it's it's a wild thing I don't expect anyone to
understand the one where they hit it and it goes through that little thing no that's okay okay
okay that's out in Wonderland probably yeah no it's it's a it's a it's the second most popular
sport in the world after soccer it's just not played in America yeah so it's played in all the
India and you know so yeah anyway what do you do what does it look like it's it's got the
it's it's it's listen the American part of your brain is there's not a one minute answer to this
yeah yeah so it's kind of like baseball but it's sort of like Australian baseball there's a five
day version of it really yeah so there's there's rumors of us trying to get a trip together and
watching it in the Caribbean is amazing because it's it's a great place to make it as well why do they
play in the is there a league to watch it's it's you the cricket we love is your country so we
will go support Australia playing the West Indies okay which is a group of islands in the Caribbean
that they they they do cricket okay so that would be and there's like a specific tournament
that y'all are like they like a world cup yeah there's just various tournaments
okay we're gonna we're gonna try and make it to the next one okay looking forward to it how many
people are on the is it a field there's three there's 11 people on the field and two batsman
so the batters have to you have to bat with a partner so it's a bit more on your same team yeah
you go to and you hit the ball and you got to run to the other end and you've got both got to
get to the other end to get one yeah it's fun it's really fun the British invo invented it and
it used to last it was used to be an unlimited game oh you just played until they're about
started yes as back when amateurs um to be pro an amateur meant you didn't have a job so it's
wealthy landowners literally with nothing else to do would play for days and then and then when
the working class started playing they'd limited it to five yeah well there you go so when you
guys all go to watch it you'll go for a week because the game all last five days yeah we've got
it we've got to talk uh all of all of our families in into all of this that uh yeah that I'm
looking forward to that there's a little bit of energy behind it right now hand to heaven I'm
gonna get on Instagram and watch some cricket today I promise I can hook you I can see the bats
are kind of long the paddles paddles yes sorry no no they call bats but Americans like the word
paddles to describe it yeah because they look more like it it is this one of the harder things to
ever do is explain this game okay I don't know why yeah well I can't wait just get more runs
than the other team there you go and two of you have a double shot because there's two people
but it sounds fun that's right hey there you go uh thanks for doing this today thanks for
ending the series for us love you any proud of you my friend thank you
you guys isn't he the best don't you love him okay listen for starters listening to his sermons
every week is a game changer you will love it we'll link to that in the show notes and it's
spiritually stronger.com but head over to social media tell them that thanks for being on the show
and go pre-order a copy of the prayer experiment it will arrive at your doorstep right on time
we'd love to hear more of your thoughts about this episode over in the comments on our sub-stack
post you guys my blogger heart is alive again over at spiritually stronger.com come talk to me in
the comments if you have any questions from this episode you can drop them there or in the Q&A box
on your Spotify app if you're a Spotify listener like me or just send them to us on Instagram at
that sounds fun podcast we'll try to answer them there hey make sure you're following that
sounds fun podcast as well on Instagram it's a fun place to be if you need anything else for me
y'all know I'm embarrassingly easy to find any uptowns on Instagram Twitter X whatever Facebook
TikTok sub-stack anywhere you need me that is where you can find me I think that's it for me today
friends go out or stay home do something that sounds fun today and I'll do the same today what
sounds fun to me is a fun hang out this afternoon with my agent who's in town so y'all have a great
week we'll see you back here next Monday periodically throughout our spiritually stronger theme over
the next year and a half we're going to throw in some fun episodes just to break up some of the
themes some of the spiritual discipline talk so Monday bring some fun your way with my friend
and hallmark actress generally we'll see y'all then
you
drink thing, but Ultra is a whole line up now. You've got strawberry dreams, blue Hawaiian,
sunrise, and vice guava, and they all bring the monster energy punch. So if you've been
living in the white can, branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single
one is zero sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.
Ready, set, co-kate your Toyota today with great deals on your favorite SUVs at your local
Toyota dealer like the all new 2026 RAV4 or spacious Grand Islander. Visit Toyota.com
for more Toyota. Let's go places.



