That Was Us LIVE! At The Wiltern in Los Angeles

This is a head gum podcast.

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Running 12 miles today.

Grab a green juice, quick change, and head to work.

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Working late, but obviously still meeting the girls

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Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome

the host of the hip podcast, that was us, starring Chris

Sullivan, Mandy Moore.

And my dad, Sterling K. Brown.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Wiltern Theater.

And the very first live episode of that was us.

I feel like this is cool.

I feel like this is the dream we had, as we were starting

the podcast.

We hadn't even really done an episode.

We're like, let's do a live show.

Yeah, we've been talking about it for such a long time.

Wouldn't it be fun?

Wouldn't it be so cool if we had people here,

and they heard us talk, and we did something interesting?

And now people are here.

They're here.

And the pressure is on.

Thank you so much for sharing the evening with us.

We really appreciate it.

And so now, if you're listening to the pod,

you're going to get to hear us talk.

It's a rewatch podcast, but we're not rewatching

a specific episode tonight.

We are talking about the musical world.

That is this is us.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We have some guests who are going to come out and talk to us.

So should we introduce our guests?

Let's do it.

First, we are going to bring out the composer for this is us.

Siddharth the Kofla.

Not only did he do the compositions for this is us,

he did the compositions for pretty much.

I mean, I think Dan Fogelman has been quoted

that says none of my stuff works without him.

Please welcome Sidd Kofla.

Yeah.

There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like hugs.

Hugs are warm, warm hugs, Olaf.

We're hugging like we haven't been

soundchecking for four hours.

Like we haven't had just been hanging out, exactly.

We haven't all been like, you're here.

Hang out.

Who's next?

Who should we bring on next?

So the next gentleman that's going to join us today,

I get to be the sole lady for the podcast panel.

Look at you.

This next gentleman is someone near and dear to me personally.

Yeah.

He's the front man for a band called Dawes.

Yeah, he is.

I have three children with him.

He's the most talented songwriter, singer, musician,

on the planet in my estimation.

Mr. Taylor Goldsmith.

Woo!

T.G.

Woo!

Listen, last but not least, me and this guy

have three kids together.

He is my work husband.

He's really close.

He's my work husband.

We've worked together on two shows in a row.

I love him dearly.

He has the cutest cheeks in the whole wide world.

Please welcome your friend and ours.

The creator of this is us, Daniel Eric Bogumman.

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Right there, Big Dog.

Right there.

Right between me and Sterling.

Yeah, yeah.

Where we like you.

The hot seat.

All right.

So we brought you all here tonight

to discuss the musical season 7.

Not season 7 of this season.

All of these people have signed a petition.

They will accept a two-part movie.

That's good.

Like, like, down in the avi.

I like it.

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

Woo!

The musical environment of this is us

became a world unto its own.

Not just the compositions, not just the original songs

that were written by these two men down here,

not just the musical direction that was kind of fronted

by this man, but the totality of the soundtrack.

I was listening to all of it as we were preparing for this.

And it has a tone that is full of hope

and full of joy and full of love.

And it's the way that we can all continue to get together.

Yeah.

And catch up.

Thanks, Sterling.

Thank you for talking to us here with Dan, if we could.

Yeah.

Yeah, woo.

Woo.

Woo!

It's my dad.

Because your musical taste, your musical fingerprint,

is all over the show.

Yeah.

Can you?

Can you please walk us through maybe the pilot,

the first couple of episodes, the musical moments,

or the artists that you wanted to include,

that you just knew, because I know that you had them in mind.

Well, because oftentimes, start interrupt,

but stuff would be written into the scripts.

Yeah.

The mic drop here, or the needle drop rather.

So it is interesting.

Obviously, you're a deeply musical person.

You're a deep music fan.

And so I am curious to hear where that started,

where it comes from, and how you infuse that in your work.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, ironically, I'm not sure.

I have great musical taste.

My friends used to make fun of me growing up for my musical taste.

I remember when I was a kid, I would say,

you know what the best song of all time is?

My life is a highway.

And my friends were all like, cool.

You're in high school.

You're in high school.

And your friends are always like, want to be cool and different.

And they would always make fun of me.

And then I wrote the movie cars.

And I got rascal flats covered.

Life is a highway.

And it became like the coolest.

You see motherfuckers.

I know what I'm doing.

No, but I think, you know, it's born out of a lot of things.

I think I learned a lot about music, actually,

making the show and how you pick music for a show.

But I learned a lot about how you make me pick music.

I now make playlists on Spotify and keep making them

in the course of a year.

I send them to sit a lot into the editors.

But the Labby Sifre song, that's at the end of the pilot, watch me,

was one that the directors of the pilot, John and Glenn had sent to me.

They were like, oh, we were thinking about this as a vibe for the show.

And I was like, that's going to be the ending when the guy starts smoking

the cigarette on the hospital.

And I remember playing it while Milo was shooting that.

I was sitting in the back.

I was like, guys, isn't it because we'd cool this in.

And Milo was doing a dialogue.

And I was playing it on my phone.

And everyone was like, the sound guys were like, judging me.

But it wasn't because I was a genius.

I heard that song and I was like, that's going to be at the end.

And that actually, in a weird way, for the needle job

that Mandy's referring to, kind of set the pilot.

I was like, we're going to use timeless music.

That kind of could play today.

It could play 100 years ago.

It could play 100 years from now.

And I just started compiling with our music supervisors,

like giant banks of songs.

And then Sid became the real secret sauce of it.

And that was a much longer process for us.

The primary mandate then was timelessness.

Was there any overriding sort of objectives

besides timelessness that you were thinking about

in terms of what you picked for the show?

Not really.

I mean, my thing is I've never been able to work in theory a lot.

I mean, I want this type of thing or I want it.

I just kind of know it when I hear it.

Sid is always sending me stuff.

I'm like, that's it.

But I don't know why, right?

I'm not good that way.

I don't think, right?

Like I don't, like you always met, you're like,

Sid always is like, talk to me about what you're thinking.

I'm like, I don't know.

Like I don't know.

And then he plays something.

I'm like, yeah, that's it.

That's it.

But I don't know how to describe it.

Okay.

Yeah, normally your direction is figure it out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I definitely don't like that.

It's the most daunting thing to hear too.

You're like, okay.

He's like, yeah, he's like, just figure it out.

Yeah, I'll know when I hear it.

All right.

So people who've listened to the podcast probably

have heard a little bit of this story,

but I'm curious for you guys to sort of like recount it

because we got Sid's side, but I'd love to hear

how you and Sid sort of came into each other's lives

and then developed such a close working relationship

because now you guys are sort of inseparable.

Do everything together.

Well, I've known Sid.

We were college roommates our freshman year, basically.

We lived in the same hall of college.

Yeah.

And yeah, he's here.

What's your line you always say about like that?

It's cute about us.

I've known you longer than I haven't.

Yeah, it's a very, this is us line.

Yeah, yeah.

It is.

But Sid was like this floppy-haired Indian kid

at my college that sang Acapella music in college

and he had a electric keyboard in his dorm room

and we were called off the beat.

Yeah.

All right.

I'm not mad at that.

Yeah.

But then we were here are the rest of your members.

Imagine.

Oh.

Next time.

And I mean, we lived with a bunch of athletes

and it wasn't a fraternity just a group of guys

and I was like, guys, we have to go to Sid's Acapella show.

And I was like, I don't want to.

Please don't make me go to Sid's Acapella show.

And I was like, we're going.

And I remember thinking, oh, that's the most talented person

I've ever met.

I remember very vividly at this Acapella show.

And he also thought life is a highway.

That's the song he'd ever heard.

I don't know.

That's true.

When you first said that, I thought you meant life is a fast lane.

Life in the fast lane.

So I was like, oh, yeah, life in the fast lane.

And then when you mention rascal flats,

like, oh, life is a highway.

Differences.

Tom Cocker.

Tom Cocker.

One of the grades.

You had me, you lost me.

Yeah.

But I mean, yeah.

So I mean, we, and then I just was always

be so tickled by listening to Sid perform.

Because I mean, his voice you guys will hear it later.

He's incredible.

I mean, it's incredible.

And then I was the guy when Sid had a really cool band

out here in LA.

That was like a KCRW kind of darling.

I was the guy going to the mint with like four other people

to every one of Sid's shows watching him.

And I was like, how are people not here?

This is the most talented man in the world.

Did you guys, did you guys both come to LA at the same time?

Or who came first?

I definitely came first.

You were first.

And how far behind were you?

A year later.

Like a year later.

Okay.

But Sid was in a rock band.

He was a lead singer and like kind of writer for a band.

A man called Goldspot.

Goldspot.

Was that the one that was happening then?

Guys, Goldspot.

No.

You see?

Yeah.

You're going to hear a Goldspot selection later.

It's one of my favorite songs.

It's one of our family's favorite songs.

Goldspot.

Yeah, that's good.

They were actually, they were really awesome.

They were big on RMB charts.

I know a lot about Goldspot.

Yeah.

And so that's, so for a long time,

I was like trying to figure my way through writing.

And Sid was figuring his way through music out in LA.

And we were just like young guys trying to figure out how to do it

in different fields.

Yeah.

It was still a cappella.

And you're like, you got to learn an instrument.

There has to be an instrument.

We need a guitar.

We need a piano.

Something.

Yeah.

We'll be right back with more.

That was us.

There's always that moment for a trip.

When you're trying to wrap everything up,

work, family stuff, packing, it's a lot, right?

Like when I'm packing for a trip,

what I generally do is I lay everything out on the bed

and then remove about 25% of the stuff.

I start packing like a good week before.

A week.

Sorry.

It's just like a whole family trip.

Oh, well, because moms, moms have got the different piles,

different kids.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Rachel's got a whole system.

I have a whole system too.

I'm like a whole mental checklist.

And when you finally leave,

the last thing you want to do is worry about what's happening back home.

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What do I want off my plate when I'm out of town?

Mm-hmm.

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The house is clean.

Yeah.

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You can spread out, cook if you want,

and still be together.

Like, instead of getting a separate place for your kids,

everybody can just stay in the same way.

Everybody can be all together.

I love that.

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you can give families the space to make memories

and earn a little extra while your place

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Yeah.

Every night, I have a sweet boy who's 10 years old

and he spends about three hours on his mattress.

And then he comes and joins his mom and dad in our bed.

Right?

Now sometimes he likes to spread out

because his limbs are getting longer or whatnot.

Yeah.

I went and I got him a Lisa mattress.

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There's always that moment for a trip.

When you're trying to wrap everything up,

work, family stuff, packing, it's a lot.

When I'm packing for a trip, what I generally do,

is I lay everything out on the bed,

and then remove about 25% of the stuff.

I start packing like a good week.

A week.

Sorry.

It's been like a whole family trip.

Well, because moms have got the different piles,

different kids.

Rachel's got a whole system.

I have a whole system too.

I'm like a whole mental checklist.

And when you finally leave the last thing you want to do

is worry about what's happening back home.

Which is why while you're away on those trips,

hosting your home on Airbnb can be a practical way

to put your space to use.

And with Airbnb's co-host network,

you can hire a vetted local co-host to take care of your home

and guests while you're away.

So you can focus on making memories.

What do I want off my plate when I'm out of town?

Everything.

Everything.

Everything.

The house is clean.

Watered the plants.

Yeah.

I don't want to worry about a thing.

And you know what?

A co-host can help manage reservations.

They can handle guest communication and provide on-site support.

So everything runs smoothly.

And when you travel with family, finding a home to stay in

together makes things easier.

You can spread out, cook if you want,

and still be together.

Like, instead of getting a separate place for your kids,

everybody can just stay in the same way.

Everybody can be all together.

I love that.

By hosting your home on Airbnb,

you can give families the space to make memories

and earn a little extra while your place

would otherwise be empty.

And if you are ready to host,

but you need a little help,

you can find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host.

You guys.

Yeah.

Every night, I have a sweet boy who's 10 years old

and about, he spends about three hours on his mattress.

And then he comes and join his mom and dad in our bed, right?

Now sometimes he likes to spread out

because his limbs are getting longer or whatnot.

I went and I got him a Lisa mattress.

Yeah.

So when he comes to my bed, sometimes I just switch places.

That's right.

Oh, nice.

I'm sleeping on a legend full-size mattress at night.

And the drop-off between my bed, there's none.

I sleep so comfortably.

The firmness is perfect.

There's a coolness to the mattress that I absolutely love.

Like, it's one of the smartest investments that I've made.

Getting him a mattress, not for him.

For you.

It's for me.

That's right.

Lisa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored

to how you sleep specifically.

So when you go to their website, you can kind of identify,

what kind of sleeper am I?

Am I warm, cold, firm, soft, whatever you need.

And whatever your specific sleep position is.

Yes.

Yes.

And they can tailor the mattress to you.

Lisa mattresses, they're meticulously designed.

They're assembled in the USA.

Let's go.

For exceptional quality.

Plus, they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns,

and a 120-night sleep trial.

Yes.

Sleep on it for four months.

Come on, man.

See how it goes.

Yes.

Go to Lisa.com for 20% off.

Plus, get an extra $50 off with promo code TWU.

Exclusive for our listeners.

That's L-E-E-S-A.com.

promo code TWU for 20% off.

Plus an extra $50 off.

Come and show our show support.

Let them know that we sent you after checkout.

Again, that is Lisa.com promo code TWU.

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But you had that.

I remember you saying this to us before you had this vision.

It's like, when I do shows, I'm going to have him do the music.

And I remember you said something that said,

like, I've never done this thing before.

And so you just kind of threw it at you.

Like, talk to us a little bit about that.

You just, you just believed like you knew that he could do it.

He needed a job.

I mean,

buddy, we all did when this show started.

Yeah.

We always needed job.

Yeah, that's real.

I don't remember how it started, honestly.

I was, I was in, so I was in Goldspot.

Oh Goldspot.

Yeah. Goldspot.

Goldspot.

Not Coldplay.

No, no.

Yeah.

I was in Coldplay actually.

And the band sort of like, you know, it was like it never got super successful.

It sort of hit like a hit of ceiling.

And it was around that time where Dan called me and was like,

hey, you want to come in and score the second season of my TV show.

There's a TV show called The Neighbors on ABC.

Right.

And I remember being like, I think you got the wrong person.

Like, I can't do this.

Like, I didn't study this.

I, you know, I was a singer-songwriter in a band.

And that was like this orchestral score.

And I was like, I don't even know how to begin.

And he's like, no, I think you can do it.

He's like, you'll figure it out, you know, the way he talks.

And I remember just like in, just in a complete panic for like,

just the entire year scoring that show.

I just didn't know what the hell I was doing.

And I just turned this stuff and you seemed to like it.

First two tracks were a capella, though.

And he was like, yeah.

Yeah.

I was like, yeah, the whole time.

And then like, should I score that show for that year?

And then the show got canceled after that second season.

Yeah, but it's not because of your music.

Like, Dan is still learning about it.

Absolutely.

Or you're writing.

No.

You're given this opportunity and you feel like a fish out of water.

But clearly, what kind of notes were you getting?

You were doing something right.

Like, people weren't saying, this is crap.

Like, I think what it was was like since Dan had seen me,

he Dan was like one of five people that would come see my band play.

But he would come to these shows.

And I think he just noticed that like, you know,

he always liked like my melodic writing or like my melodies.

And I think he was like, if I connect to that in my,

in your, my interpretation of it is that if I'm Dan,

if I connect to your songs,

I think other people will also connect to your melodies in my shows

and film or shows.

But, you know, he didn't let you do the film.

He didn't let you do the film.

He only let you know.

No, no, no, no.

By the way, when I talk about the five person,

I mean, Sid was playing, sold out.

Arena is an opening for death cat, for cutie,

and like charting in different countries.

Like the band was right, was right there.

But I think what it was was his music always made me like,

really deeply feel something emotional.

And I couldn't, even when it was just like a kind of pop song,

you felt something.

And I think that's what the magic sauce of this is us became.

Yeah.

It was such a big part of it.

His music makes you feel emotional.

You didn't want people to feel that in Fred Claus?

Like, what?

Less than in Fred Claus.

Okay.

I got it.

He wrote Fred Claus.

Thank you, sir.

You're welcome.

And at what stage in the, in the process,

did Taylor come in as a, as a partner?

What was the first song that you guys wrote for the show?

So we were at, it was, after just,

there was a season one party, right?

There was like a, there was like an FYC event,

or for your consideration event, season one,

where this, our band sort of performed some of the music

from the show, season one.

And, and afterwards, I just like, I went up to the bar

and Taylor was there with Mandy, right?

And you were, and I was like, and you, and we, I enter,

I went up to you because I was like,

the biggest fan of his band, Dawes.

And, yeah.

And, and I just loved, loved, loved that band so much.

And, just in our conversation, we just started to hit,

we just hit it off.

We started talking about music and the show.

And, and, and I think we just left that conversation saying,

like, hey, maybe like one day we'll write something together.

And that's how we left it.

And then what was the first thing we wrote together?

And then for, I think the first thing was invisible ink, right?

Yeah.

When, when, when Rebecca's going and trying out for that record,

exact or venue owner, I kind of forget which,

oh, it was the label.

Yeah, I was record.

Yeah, which you go, went out to LA.

And it was like, you don't have it.

Yeah.

The LA trip.

I'm Pittsburgh Good.

And, um, oh, it was in Pittsburgh.

No, no.

From Pittsburgh.

That was the critique.

I was Pittsburgh Good.

Right, right, right.

Yeah, you were Pittsburgh Good.

That was it.

Um, and it was, I was so thrilled because it was like,

I'm watching her build this character

along with, you know, the whole operation with you and with the cast

and watching her explore these emotions and then,

and then to be asked by you, like,

let's get into the mind of a young struggling songwriter,

Rebecca, and what would she be writing about?

What would she, she, she be singing about?

So to, um, to be any small part of the subconsciousness

of what I'm watching you bring to life was like,

what a cool opportunity.

I feel like, um, and I felt like, yeah, like I'm, I'm,

I'm, I'm psyched for this because I do feel like I have this unique

insight into the way that this character is growing,

because I'm, I'm watching it in front of me.

Um, not that I feel like I brought anything particularly special

in that level, but I thought, but I mean, even like,

I, yeah, I was, I remember when we wrote it,

I was, I thought like, I'm, I think we sat down,

you had this musical idea and, and we, and then I think we texted

about like certain lyrics of what's the first lyric,

what's the title?

And, you know, one thing I never knew is, is your involvement,

Dan, for this stuff?

Like, I would always be dealing with, with Sid,

and then not with that song, but later songs.

There was a couple of times where I was like,

Dan's not sure about that word.

I'm like, okay, so Dan is a part of this process.

He is hearing this.

He weighs in from above.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love it.

I love it.

I love everything you do.

Dan.

Yes.

Dan is not doing this.

Dan's not feeling it.

Dan is not like it.

And he went, like this and made a fart sound.

Everyone is a, every once in a while.

Let's come up.

I come up with like some black shit.

But it shows, like, damn, what do you think about putting this down?

It's like, not, I think you're going on.

Right, sorry.

That's so nice.

But that's an interesting, that's an interesting process,

right?

Like to, to be in a song writing team with people,

two guys who essentially just met, right,

is one thing, but then to have to be writing

for a third entity, which is this is us,

which we can say, Dan Fogelman is this is us, right?

That's an interesting feedback

to have to take into your songwriting process.

What was that like?

And also, there's that feedback,

but there's also like, well,

we know that this has to be Pittsburgh good.

So we wanna write the best song we can,

but we also have to make it track

from what she's about to experience.

We know it's slight against Pittsburgh.

Come on, we love Pittsburgh.

I didn't write the line.

But for me though, and now remembering

like the call I made to you,

because you see like the music on this is us,

the songs that we're used,

like the things that like I had nothing to do with,

like the lobby safaries or Jackson Brown

or Paul Simon or these artists

that were being used in the show,

like the level of the music and the songwriting

was like up here.

And so I called you,

because I've said this to Dan for years too,

as like I think the Taylor's like one of the best songwriters

like on the planet, period.

Second, that.

What's that?

He's incredible.

And his lyric writing and music, all of it,

it's just like it's so elevated.

And like, and if you've not,

if you don't listen to Dawes, go listen to Dawes,

because it's poetry.

It's poetry set to beautiful music.

It's music.

And it's just like, it just breaks you

in like the most perfect way.

And so it worked out perfectly,

because Taylor was like a dream person to collaborate with.

And then we could also elevate the stuff

to where it needed to be, you know?

So that's, I appreciate hearing that.

But in that song, even when the,

I remember thinking about that song,

the last line of the chorus is,

turns out all the ink is invisible

if you give it enough time.

And when we wrote that, we had no idea

what Rebecca was going to go through.

And I remember like when the show ended,

I was like, oh wow, like that line,

even though we definitely weren't thinking about it,

because it wasn't something we could have possibly known,

that line had a new dimension to it.

And I thought like wow, it's so cool

how the whole show is like talking to each other,

talking to itself in ways that are just pure accidents,

but it felt really beautiful.

There's also something so meta about the fact

that like you're at home with her, right?

And you're helping write stuff

for her character.

It was just so cool.

Like you understood her character,

because you saw her develop that character at home, probably.

You guys talk through that stuff together,

or does he just kind of do his thing,

and then you wait and see?

I mean, it was, it's pretty separate.

I feel like I get a sneak peek of like,

oh, that's beautiful, I love that melody.

But like, yeah, most of it's kept pretty.

You guys know how to do your job.

You don't need me winged.

But I see, I see how Taylor is,

how he's just walking around with the guitar

just constantly playing.

Like is he doing that with like Rebecca's songs as well?

Like around the house and just sort of

listening a little bit.

Yeah, you kind of can't help it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sure, sure, sure.

The music flows from him.

It's like, babe, the kids need to eat.

You need to put it down now.

Grilled cheese.

Wow.

You guys are feeding the beast.

There's going to be more than a musical moment.

First musical moment.

So where did your musical taste start?

You guys remember, is it your parents

who turned you on to certain things?

What were the first artists that you remember?

First concerts, first songs you remember hearing,

growing up?

I'll tell you, man, but I'm not the musical people.

No, I'm not going to start.

Oh, we should all jump.

Mine was the victory tour.

Oh.

That's Michael Jackson.

The Jackson's.

OK, because Randy was alive.

There's six of them.

And we went to Knoxville, Tennessee.

I was five years old, and I took my mom and my sister

with me.

And it was fruity, friggin' awesome.

Get in the car, guys.

We're going to my first tour of them, yeah, yeah.

You took them.

Yeah, I took them.

Well, come on, guys.

I'm going to see the Jackson's.

My first concert was I remember very vividly living in.

I lived out here for one and a half, two years in Irvine.

And case, thank you.

Shut up, Irvine and a half.

Shut up, Irvine.

I lived here in third and fourth grade, I believe.

Third and half.

Wait, I never noticed.

Just for a year and a half, third and a half,

fourth and half of fifth grade, fourth and half of fifth grade.

Really?

How old are you then?

10, 10, 10.

So it was like 19 and a half.

And I, Casey Clapham back across the street.

Come on, Casey Clapham, bro.

He used to perform the entire Born in the USA album.

Casey Be Clapham back.

We were put out.

And his parents got tickets to go to Dodger Stadium

almost 10 years old.

And I remember that I have a very vivid memory of two guys

who were sitting next to us.

They must have been college-age kids.

And you couldn't see anything.

And I didn't understand when he would sing Thunder Road.

I was like, where are the songs?

Like, what's, I only knew Born in the USA.

You know, no conception of any other song.

But they put us on their shoulders the entire concert.

No.

I just remember that.

And then I remember getting stuck in Dodger Stadium

parking lot and looking at the clock.

19 year olds are heavy, too.

Yeah, they're not.

And like, and I remember just looking at the clock

and being like, this is the best day of my life.

And this is the latest I've ever been awake.

Because it was like two o'clock in the morning

and the parking lot.

And I have a very vivid memory.

This explains a lot, too, because I remember

you went to New York to see like the boss's show.

And you were like, this is sterling.

It's like the best thing I've ever seen.

So there was a full circle moment.

Yeah, that's great.

That's awesome.

That's a great first shot out to the boss.

You know what I'm doing?

You guys, yeah.

For me, it was just, I lived in India when I was little.

No one clapping for that.

I know.

India in the house.

So I was talking about.

So I grew up listening to music

that like my grandparents would play in India,

like old Hindi songs.

And that's a con.

Oh, yeah.

What's that?

Was there a concert there that you went to?

No.

Just your grandparents.

Still never been to a concert.

No, no.

Tonight, tonight, tonight, tonight.

But Sid grew up singing Hindi music.

And you hear it very much in the music of this show.

Oh, for sure.

It's like, which is interesting to me,

because I feel like, I mean, I love all the work

that you've done on different shows.

But I feel like I feel the Hindi influence.

And this is us more than the other shows

that you've worked on, is there?

It was that a conscious decision?

Well, there was, I remember in season one,

as I was trying to figure out what I was going to do

on the show.

And I was just trying to figure it out.

There was one episode that sort of unlocked everything

for me.

And that episode was at 113, was at 13,

that won the three sentences.

So that was the episode where Kate is in that weight loss camp.

Oh, right.

I don't know.

And she starts drumming.

And as she's hitting the sticks in this class,

all of a sudden, she sort of freaks out

and has this memory of Jack's funeral.

And I remember seeing that footage all of a sudden.

And this is why Dan, our relationship,

comes into play in the show, is that at that moment,

I was like, oh, and Dan, if you don't mind him to say it,

but I was like, oh, this show is in a way

it's about Dan's mom that he lost.

And I remember that moment thinking,

oh, this is about something much deeper

than what we're seeing on screen.

And it's about something, it's about the guy that wrote this

and why he wrote this show.

And so it became this very meadow moment for me.

And in that moment, I did that Jack's theme, the, whoa, whoa.

I came up with that melody there.

And I remember just in my studio jamming on it and playing it.

And all of a sudden, I started singing like an Indian.

That kind of thing over it.

And I was like, why am I doing this?

And I was just, for some reason I channeled my own family history.

And I brought it into the show in that moment.

And I remember Dan calling me after he heard that score

and that scene.

And he was like, dude, what was, that was great.

And I was like, is it too Indian for you?

And he was like, no, I was like, now you keep going with this thing.

And so that, you opened the door for that to happen.

So that's why there's that.

That's cool.

It's kind of like, oh, yeah, I remember you telling us that story

on the podcast too.

And it struck me in such a sincere way

that there was an instinct prior possibly

to a race part of yourself.

Or like, maybe I don't bring that part of myself to this job.

But in bringing your full self to it,

he was able to hear something that goes like, oh, yeah.

That connects with me.

Like, even though it was very much culturally rooted

in what you grew up with listening to from your grandparents,

like this Jewish cat over here who spent like a year and a half

in Irvine before you, like, went back to Pittsburgh

and was like, oh, that shit cops.

And I feel like it's such an interesting thing

because sometimes we feel like, in order to connect

with other people, we have to erase a part of ourselves.

We're not show-or-flowers.

We're not show-or-flowers, like our first version.

But like, the answer is like, not at all.

Like, you're enough.

Like, when you bring that shit that is inherit

within you, people will see and recognize something

that's like, ah, I mean, I know exactly that thing,

but I feel you on that.

In fairness.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The next piece you sent me, I was like, that's too Indian.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's too Indian.

Too much.

Period.

Nothing else in the email.

I don't want your full self on that one.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Hello.

Very soon.

Taylor, you've been playing music since about 18 months old.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's been, so what was your early musical inspirations,

your that was present in your life?

It was really all my dad.

I mean, he was a singer his whole life.

And your dad is a bad man.

He actually had a concert yesterday in his,

he lives in like a facility for like older folks.

He plays a 2.30.

He just rocks out.

Yeah.

He just leave it at facility.

He lives in a facility.

They have a curfew.

Max foot security.

Yeah.

And, but yeah.

And they've had noise complaints.

They're like, he's too loud.

Yeah.

Rocks out too hard.

He's in his wheelchair and he's ripping it.

It's amazing.

He can rip.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Continue the fun.

It's awesome.

But like, when I was young, he would be playing like the big potato here in LA or he'd

be playing at like an AA picnic or something like that because he was like big in the program,

like which was great for him.

And so, but it was, I would just grow up being around all of his, these musician friends

of his, some of which were home from bigger tours, like the organ player was always out

with Bonnie Raid and the bass player was out at CSNY and this was the band that they

would play when they were home and my dad would let me stay up and go see them all play.

And then my dad would be like, you're going to come up and play guitar tonight and I could

barely play guitar.

You barely walk.

Yeah.

But in all the, in his bandmates would be like, Lenny, don't do that.

We're like, you're kids nice, but like, we're not, that's not what we're doing here.

How, how old would you be when you do this?

This was like, like, yeah, like, I guess for guitar, for singing with my dad, it was like

from five or six.

Okay.

Guitar, it was like 11 or 12.

Okay, good.

And they, they all came around and we all became friends.

But it was like sometimes like, oh, here comes the kid.

And so those were my first concerts.

But in terms of me, developing my own taste, like my, our dad had us on such a beautiful

perfect diet of like, here's Otis, here's James Brown, here's the Stones, here's the Beatles

and I'm like, dad, here's Matchbox 20.

Here.

Which, yeah.

And I still love that stuff.

Third eye blind.

Third eye blind.

Matchbox 20.

Sami Sonning.

Vertical horizon.

Vertical horizon.

Vertical horizon.

Vertical horizon.

Vertical horizon.

Vertical back.

Vertical back.

Vertical back.

Vertical back.

Maybe you do it.

I was very much 12 years old at 1997.

Very much 12 years old at 1997.

And so those were those concerts that I wanted to go to and my dad to his credit was always like,

cool, we'll do that.

We'll go.

We'll go.

And again, I don't want to sound like I'm just burying those bands.

I still listen to a lot of those records.

It was just definitely not what he had in mind.

And, but yeah, he was so supportive of that.

And then of course, finally, I found my way to the more bedrock stuff.

Like, it took me a little while, but like finding

Joni and Leonard and Dylan and Paul Simon and all that stuff where I was like,

oh, now what a song can do, not just to my musical taste,

but to my heart and to my sense of self.

That kind of was busted wide open.

But yeah, he was he kind of facilitated that whole journey.

I love that.

Hold on.

Before Sally asks another question, I want to turn it on you, big dog.

First concert.

First concert that I can remember was the Beach Boys.

That's good.

That's a good one.

My parents took me too.

For first artists, like, I got a solid steady stream of Paul Simon from my mom.

Yes.

I got a solid steady stream of John Pryne from my dad,

which if you listen to John Pryne, it's not for five-year-olds.

It's grown up music.

But it sounds like it might be four or five-year-olds, but it might be.

But it's not.

Does he do like baby-making music or like, what kind of stuff?

No, he wrote all his songs about the Vietnam War.

Not baby-making.

About heroin addiction.

I think it does.

I don't know.

There's a hole in daddy's arm where all the money goes.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah, that was in dad's car when mom found out about that.

It was a surprise.

But John Pryne is incredible, nonetheless, and it actually has a tie to this show.

Yeah.

If you can speak to that.

Because he contacted John Pryne in his older age, contacted the show and loved the show so much.

So cool.

I'm honestly trying to remember the story.

I remember hearing second-hand that he and his wife loved watching the show on Tuesday nights or something like that.

And then I'd always listened to John Pryne.

And then we found a couple of spots we used.

The music in.

I'm trying to remember exactly where.

It's all a blur, but I remember then you meeting him, right?

How did that all change?

I mean, through the show.

Through the show.

We reached out.

And my dad and I, and my whole family went to a show of his here in LA.

And my dad and I got a chance to go backstage and meet him.

When you guys started writing, when did you write your first song?

You asking me?

Yeah, you.

Yeah, you.

You really?

Yeah.

Great.

No, you're not asking.

Askin' these two two.

I was probably 16 or 16.

It was probably one of the, it was, it was, it was so awful whatever I wrote.

It was for like, it was my girlfriend, for this song for my girlfriend.

It was so bad.

It was great.

And you?

I was, I remember all I wanted, the only reason I wanted to learn guitar was to write a song.

I learned a G chord, a D7 chord, and an A7 chord.

And like, because they're not the same as just A and D chords.

It's played a little different.

It was a little bit easier.

And once I knew those three chords, like, there's got to be some combination that works

that I could write a song.

Did you learn other people's music before you started writing your own?

Like, were you playing other people's songs?

What was the first song you learned on the guitar?

Oh.

Life is a highway.

Yeah.

No, I mean, I think I wrote it, like, once I knew three chords, I wrote a song.

And it was horrible.

And I was, and I'd barely remember what it was even called.

But, but I tried to start writing immediately.

But then when I started learning more chords, then it was about just those, those beetle, cheap

books and stuff that you could see, like, what chords go together.

And that taught me a lot, just, just kind of seeing how other songs functioned.

Or listening to records and trying to figure out how third I blinded it.

You know what?

You know what would have been great if you were, like, well, Taylor and Sid, we found those

first songs.

And you pulled it up.

Did everybody...

It's even better.

There's a guitar right there.

We'd like to hear them.

We could do that.

More that was us after the short break.

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No, but if you gentlemen would be so kind, if there's something from your past that you love,

maybe an early song that you wrote, maybe the most recent thing you wrote, maybe it's a song you never wrote.

Maybe it's life as a highway.

Would you guys treat us to some music?

Sure, come on.

Rock paper scissors.

I'll open for you.

I prefer that.

All right.

Do you remember the song that you're going for?

It was so bad that she cheated on me after it.

Don't play it.

I don't even remember it.

Who?

Do you want to call her out on the podcast?

What's her name?

Do you want to say her name?

She wasn't real.

Stop.

Stop.

She wasn't real.

Stop.

She wasn't real.

Stop it.

Oh my gosh.

So good.

Quick start playing.

Or I'll play like an early, it was like the first gold spot song that I wrote,

that sort of like it sort of started my little gold spot career.

I don't.

And Dan liked the song too, so.

You like this one, right?

I do.

Or you told me you did.

Just the right amount of Indian.

Yeah.

Okay, it's called Friday.

Today is Friday.

It is my day to do what I want.

Mama can tell me I'm going nowhere.

I'm just a prisoner of my fate.

Would you come along?

Bring me in.

Could you come along?

Bring me in.

Bring me in.

Today is Friday.

It is my day to disappear.

To kings and queens and make believe it.

No demons in my head.

Would you come along?

Bring me in.

Could you come along?

Bring me in.

Bring me in.

If you were around in my sleep,

you could be found in my sleep.

Give me a sign.

Give me a sign.

Today is Friday.

It is my day to live a simple life.

Put on my makeup, dress up in color.

Maybe you might see me down here.

Can you come along?

Bring me in.

Could you come along?

Bring me in.

Bring me in.

If you were around in my sleep,

you could be found in my sleep.

Give me a sign.

Give me a sign.

Maybe we'll walk into the rain.

Today is what's on my mind.

For you both hand in hand.

And you're living your life over again.

Today is Friday.

It is my day to live a simple life.

Put on my makeup, dress up in color.

Maybe you might see me down here.

Can you come along?

Bring me in.

Could you come along?

Bring me in.

If you were around in my sleep,

you could be found in my sleep.

Give me a sign.

Give me a sign.

Today is Friday.

It is my day to do what I want.

Mama can tell me I'm going nowhere.

I'm just a prisoner of my faith.

Would you come along?

Bring me in.

Would you come along?

Bring me in.

Come on.

Your voice is perfect.

It's crazy.

Perfection.

So good.

I know you can't hit a bad move.

I've been saying, so Sid has gone on.

And he's now won Emmys.

We've done a bunch of shows together.

And I've been on and about this.

With Taylor.

We were talking about writing more songs together.

Dan actually has to give Sid time off to do that.

This is an earlier song of my bandda's.

I feel like this song...

I think when I wrote this song, I felt like,

at least I have a better sense of what I sound like.

I think I was sort of reaching and grasping at whatever I could until then.

And this song kind of lined it up a little bit more for me.

It's called Moon in the Water.

When the wind is with me, but somehow out of sight,

not knowing where it comes from, or where it goes.

That's the way your memory.

Shames the middle of my nights, since the last time I saw you.

In the words you chose.

When I said this must be what love is like, I saw it in a dream.

You looked into my eyes and said, you don't know what you mean.

Love is for the fishermen who cast his nets to fall upstream,

fishing for the moon in the water.

So I act now as if I forgot my efforts all in vain.

I spent some time with a new girl who made the simple world seem fine.

But like a rose placed in a flower pot, her true nature contained.

Not knowing what she asks for, or what she'll find.

When she says if I've ever had love in my life, then surely this is it.

I said anyone who talks like that doesn't understand one bit.

That love is for the fighter born to lose, but never quit.

Swinging for the moon in the water.

So I left her with her dreams, where I thought that she belonged.

Not with my secrets, which she heard but never knew.

I hoped my loneliness found peace, I hoped my love had been drawn.

When all I wanted from her was to remind me of you.

So I stay out in the streets hoping to find you anywhere.

Now that I understand the woman you need to be.

I can feel you in the heat, I can taste you in the air,

and I can't help but find your face in everything I see.

And once I can admit you're gone, I place it on a star.

And wait for the day I'm what you need, and then reach out for your heart.

Because even if love is more my mistress, then my lovers ever are.

You'll always be the moon in the water.

You'll always be the moon in the water.

It's not very often that you get to hear music by two of the greatest living songwriters.

Back to back.

Live at the will turn, Peter and Los Angeles, California.

Cash requests are incredible.

Cash, you guys a question.

This is like really like on an anthropological, just sort of observational thing.

Just be like, how do you do that?

It's something like that, but it's a little bit more nuanced than that.

Think about the notes that you are singing at all, or is it just the meaning of the song and conveying that that carries you through it.

I'm sure there's technical things to it, but it seems to me that you get lost in the message and the meaning of what you're trying to communicate.

And then the other part just sort of floats along with that.

Is that true or not true?

I mean, I don't think about the notes when I'm singing.

I really, if I'm honest, I'd think about like absolutely nothing.

Like, I don't think anything goes through my mind.

Nice.

It's my boy.

Surely, it says, well, I could do that.

Okay.

The same could be asked about acting.

Do you think about your intentions?

Do you think about the word?

Like, what's your process?

Hold on, hold on, Mandy Moore.

I know, I skipped over Taylor.

I want to hear husband's answer too.

I mean, I think, I mean, what Mandy brings up is a good point where you study, and you study, and you learn structure, and you learn theory, and you learn what chords work, and you learn how to play similarity over it.

And then when you do kind of step into the ring, it's really important to just not think about that stuff, or else you're going to hear the craft.

I mean, I'm sure it's the same with acting, where if I can feel the work, and I don't, then I'm not as interested.

But it's weird, it is a weird marriage, so much, at least for me, that sometimes the line, I'll have the first line.

And that will dictate the shape of the melody, like in that song, like, when the wind is with me, but somehow out of sight.

Like, I have that written down, I don't know how I'm going to sing it, I have these chords.

When the wind is with me, but somehow out of sight.

Okay, that's how that's the melody for that part. And so when I get to the second verse, I know I have to work it within.

So the rules present themselves as it kind of goes along, but also it's like you don't want to be too bound by that, because then that can, again, turn it into more of an exercise than an exorcise.

And yeah, it's like, it's kind of juggling a whole lot of things at once. I often write, like, I'll have a title.

I had that title, actually, in my notebook for...

You come up with a title before lyrics?

I had Moon in the Water sitting there, I was like, no, that's a good song.

I know, that's a good title for a song, for what I like. I don't know how to write it.

And I just had to sit and wait until I found a way in.

And it's like a desperation. It's like, anyway, and I'll write it, even if it's a two-line song.

Like, whatever gets that out, then I'll just follow that thread.

But it's usually lyric first before melody?

More like concept first. It's not like a full-page of words.

It's like a first line, a title sometimes not always, but kind of like the crux.

Like, oh, this is what the song's about.

But that goes back to the John Prine kind of school, which I feel like I learned most about songwriting from.

Like, Christopherson and John Prine, where you start to feel like how did they filter this thing into this...

Like, how did they land the plane? In their cases, how did they land the plane so well?

And so I feel like with that, it's hard, but it's really fun.

And that's why I don't just sit down and start writing, because then it's even harder.

Then I don't know how to funnel it into a unifying thought.

Can I change my answer?

No, no, you said I think about nothing.

I felt like I could have been better.

I don't think about it.

Do you ever start with the title? Like, what happened when you're like, okay, cars?

He was giving cars.

He was giving cars.

He was giving cars, which, can we say, one of my top ten favorite movies of all time?

Genius.

Well, you and every other two-year-old boy.

That's right, baby!

No, I never have a title.

I don't...

I need teller's notebook.

This is us to never title.

No, it didn't.

Happy birthday.

Happy birthday.

It was 36.

It was never happy birthday.

Okay, Dan Fogelman, you are not at that photo shoot where they tried to make us put on birthday hats.

No, I know.

They did.

They tried to name the show Happy Birthday at one point.

But we also know.

But we didn't.

We showed up to our first photo shoot.

We showed up to our first photo shoot.

And there was a little trolley of, like, birthday hats and a cake.

And every streamers.

And we were all staring at it.

Like, what is that for?

And somebody said, yeah, they were kind of the kind of thing to make the show.

You want to be a team player?

Yeah, you want to.

Happy birthday.

And I think it was you or somebody...

It was Milo, who was like...

Milo was like, nobody touches the birthday.

Milo texted me.

Milo texted me.

Like, I told them all under no...

No one puts on a fucking birthday hat.

And I was like, you're the man.

I love it.

Because you know historically, that is what they're going to use.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They're going to use...

We've lost Sterling.

As soon as you post like this.

Yeah.

That's on the billboard.

Happy birthday.

Yeah.

Happy birthday.

Yeah.

Happy birthday.

God, sorry.

Real quick.

I wanted to just address the acting question real quick.

Thank you.

Because...

I'm not...

I didn't forget about your mama.

It's because the slight difference that I see between your art and this acting thing

is that you have somebody else to play off of.

Sure.

So you do all these things in terms of preparation.

What is it that you want to try to affect from a person?

How do you want them to receive this, et cetera, and communicate?

And then that other person adds the last part of the magic.

You don't know what it's going to be until you're there in the moment.

That you don't know what it's going to be until you're there in the moment.

Yeah.

So it happens in a very live moment there, which is like you always prepare as much as you can

so that you can be free to play in that moment.

Sure.

But they don't have that...

What we kind of do.

You do?

With an audience, that's always a factor of like how is this feeling in the room right now?

Yeah.

And then it definitely happens with a band where when you're playing with other musicians and that'll...

Oh, no.

We're going to play it a little more lively tonight.

Right, right.

But I know what you're saying.

It's definitely not like a back and forth.

It's not like a duet, the way that a scene would be.

Yeah, especially on the right track.

I come more from the SID school.

There's nothing.

Yeah.

Nothing.

I'm just a blank slate.

I like that.

I like that.

I like that.

Let it flow through me.

Working on the show.

And this is something I noticed.

It was consistent through...

How many of you...

We did 106 episodes?

Baco 6, yeah, man.

Is that, you know, Dan gets all...

He complements the music and all that.

I will say, like, the show worked...

As we call it, dry, like, with nothing.

I would watch these episodes before putting the score on.

And it all worked.

Like, it always worked.

It always felt like...

It was already...

It was perfect.

It felt emotional.

The performances were incredible.

Like, I...

I think it's like one of the best ensembles like ever in television.

And...

And it's...

You know what?

It really is.

Like, it took...

It was like a magical moment.

And I...

And I just like...

You know, I...

I don't think we'll ever have a gig like that again or I won't.

But like, that was like so special.

But the music, like...

It was always this balance of like...

Just doing just...

I was always trying to live under the skin a little bit.

And not do too much because it was there already.

You know?

And you guys brought it.

Like, it was...

It was so inspiring to work to whatever you guys were already bringing to the screen.

Let's go.

We appreciate the compliment.

And...

As we re-watch the show...

Like, all of us...

We've been watching this show for the past...

How long has it been?

Years.

Has it been two years?

So, we've been doing this for two years now.

Basically, because we just really like hanging out with each other.

Yeah.

And also, it's sort of recounting like...

Wow, we made something really special.

Like, something that touches people in a really profound way.

That we weren't even really fully aware of...

Well, you're doing it.

I mean, even Folkman will say this. He'll say like...

I don't know if I got a chance to enjoy it as much as I wanted to while it was happening.

And so, I think for the three of us watching, it's like...

Wow, this was a really good show.

And...

And...

And when one of the reasons for this podcast...

Or for this one live...

It's like...

The music slaps on...

Yeah.

That shit slaps.

In a really hard and delightful way.

I've been listening back to all six seasons of music.

Yeah.

You can get those playlists on Spotify.

And the music itself is a world.

And it has this tone of...

I was telling Mandy earlier.

I was like, it feels like...

An old man who has lived a good life...

And who has lost the love of his life...

And who has reconnected with an old love...

And is driving cross country to see them.

Like the whole of it.

It just has this story of its own.

And if you don't...

I mean, a lot of you were here because you are rewatching with us, hopefully.

But...

Thank you.

But if you don't have time to rewatch the episodes, you put this music on...

And it evokes an emotional response in and of itself.

It does.

That is so profound.

And tonight we have had the soul of the music...

Of this is us with us.

Thank you guys.

Please give it up for Dan Goldman, Taylor Goldsmith...

And Sarah Gosler.

For those of you who listen to the podcast...

We have an occasional segment on the podcast called...

HOT TAKES!

HOT TAKES!

HOT TAKES!

I say HOT.

You say TAKES.

HOT.

HOT.

And we've been so obedient.

This is wonderful.

And we got some hot takes...

From the audience here tonight.

We did it.

We met it safely.

And now we have hot takes here.

Pass and take one place.

Oh, that's specifically for me.

Specifically for me.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

HOT!

HOT!

Oh my gosh.

It's Sally's face.

Sally's face.

You guys, this is...

I thought this was going to be a special night,

but that's the most special, right?

Before we do the hot takes,

Mandy Moore was saying this before the show,

Christopher Joseph Sullivan is really the driving force

behind this podcast.

Yes.

He's the person who asked us to do it the first time.

He's like, we should do a live one.

And the man picks up the reins

and he makes shit happen.

So give it up for my man, Sally.

It's why you're here tonight.

You're the man, bro.

The most beautiful part about any creative collaboration

is that collaboration.

So any chance I get to be creative with you two

with these musicians that you're about to see

with anybody in my life.

It is my favorite thing.

So thank you for coming along for the ride.

And thank you for making it possible.

You're hot.

You.

Hot takes.

Hot takes.

We'll just go down the line.

You did first.

Let's see it right here.

Let's hear it.

We got a hot take from Selena.

What up Selena?

Is there only one?

Or there two?

There's one Selena.

Where you at?

Only one Selena.

Here's a hot take.

Rebecca never should have agreed to go on tour with Ben.

And X is an X.

I kind of agree.

Hot take.

Do you want a little bit?

Yeah.

Because the kids were young,

but there's some weird tension there.

Well, listen.

Unresolved tension.

If Ben was on the up and up and wasn't trying to do nothing

superfluous for you as an artist and trying to find

like your own purpose in the world.

Correct.

But we came to see that he had other intentions.

I hear you.

But he was one of them kiss things that way.

I was like, and you could just push them off.

And it seemed like he was fine after now.

Okay.

Give us one.

There's no going back.

This is from Danielle.

Miguel was the real hero.

Jack was just toxic.

Hot take.

That is a scorching take.

That's the hottest take I've ever heard.

Hot take.

I let the woman who was married to both of them go first.

Mama, what you got to say to that hot take.

I think that's too hot.

I will agree.

I will agree that Miguel like never got his proper due.

Right?

Yes.

Yes.

Little Miguel.

I feel like people just in general came around to him

a little too late.

Yeah.

I always had the softest spot for Mr. Huerta's and Miguel.

Yeah.

But I don't think I don't talk.

I don't think so.

I think he was.

Wow.

What do you got, man, anymore?

I would have loved to have seen one of those alternate reality episodes

in which Rebecca never lost the third baby.

I wonder why Randall never brought that scenario up to his therapist.

Oh, that's interesting.

Yeah.

That would have been an interesting thing.

That would have been very interesting.

I wouldn't have been a part of the show.

But.

We can't have that.

You know, this is hot take.

I would like to see what this looks like without sterling cable.

It's a pretty good show.

He gets all the awards for it.

But get him out of there.

Get him out of there.

Interesting.

You got the next one, Nick Sosa.

All right.

Miss, is it Mickey?

Mickey.

Doesn't matter.

It's anonymous.

It could be anonymous if it takes too hot.

You got it.

I got any classes.

You got it.

Tell me.

Tell me you're 45 without telling me you're 45.

There you go.

I got you if you need it.

It is dark.

The show.

The show.

And this podcast.

And this podcast.

And this podcast.

Is my guilty pleasure.

Why does Sterling wear his Stanford T-shirt so much?

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

Get.

And I don't, I wear a lot of stuff over and over again.

No, but this one guy's also very comfortable.

Um, spoiler alert, we do record three podcasts,

usually in one sitting.

So it's like, when you see-

So you watch three in a row,

it's like, why is this knee-growing the same stuff?

It's because it's on the same day.

Why is this stuff on the same day?

I know, I know he's at least wealthy.

He's very busy.

He could have two Stanford T-shirts.

I do have exactly two.

Here's the thing, at the beginning of the podcast,

we're like, should we change clothes for each one?

And maybe we would all go in like a room

and Mandy would go around the corner,

we changed clothes.

I was like, it's too hot for this shit, man.

I'm wearing the same thing.

It was like, it was early summer.

We were in a place that was not air-conditioned.

I was pregnant.

I'm like, oh, you guys.

You guys just-

I was like, you guys just have to change shirts.

I had wear a whole new outfit.

It was never going to work.

So anyway.

Good hot take.

You know, like Stanford, I got you.

This is loose.

Loose says, we should have seen Kev and Sophie's wedding

in either teen or adult timeline,

or at least the mention of it in the future timeline.

You know what?

That's not a hot, I'm not mad at that.

I did.

We spent enough emotional energy on that relationship.

We deserved an entire spinoff.

We needed to pay off.

I think for a long time, we didn't know who's going to get

Sophie in the answers.

Like, well, let's not give them too much time.

I was like, it's Virgin Rivers.

It may be one of these other blond white women.

So let's not go too far into it.

He can have other relationships,

but she's got to be blonde, and she's got to be white.

We already saw the kids, baby.

We saw the kids.

We saw the kids.

We knew it wasn't Zoe.

That's all I'm telling.

OK, B says, this is a hot take.

Jack purposely went back into the burning house,

not just for the dog, but to get that box of pictures

from Vietnam.

I think he was going to tell his family about Nikki.

You know what?

That's an interesting take.

Because if ever there was something toxic,

now what do you think?

Because if ever there was a moment

where a life-changing event would have made him reconnect

with his brother, that would have been it.

What do you think about that in the moment?

Probably not.

Just thinking about it in the moment.

I think he want to keep sakes that he knew the family

would cherish, like history, but not necessarily

to connect with Nikki.

But maybe once he looked at it, he was like, you know what I'm

saying?

I would like to think that if he continued to live,

he probably would have said, hey, guys, guess what?

I got a brother.

You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, go ahead.

This one's really hot.

OK.

I hope Dan Fogelman is in conversation.

Let go, let go, let go.

What you got?

The train symbolism was overkill.

We didn't need it.

I take it.

Hey, it's not called hot takes for a reason, people.

Yeah.

We're not booing.

We're just discussing thoughtfully.

We listen, and we don't.

Respectfully.

Respectfully.

She thought it was overkill.

What do you think, man?

I disagree.

You disagree?

Yes.

Yeah.

I disagree.

I feel like it was one of the most exquisite.

Yeah.

Episodes.

Written, like, what was on the page?

It was just.

That's right.

It's a hot take.

It moved me so profoundly.

And just like, also, the concept of you, understanding

what was happening in a haze, waiting for sister

to get there, you know, like, no, you're wrong.

And to end, Dan, hold on.

And you will see when we get through this episode,

this is based on one of our writer's actual, her life,

her mother-in-law.

This was, like, this is a story based on her life.

So, yes, maybe it does seem like overkill,

but this was, like, a very true to life.

Yeah.

All right.

Let me just do this one real quick, because there's nothing

to even talk about, because it is not the biggest hot take,

but Sid Artha Kostler should have won numerous Emmys.

Agreed.

Agreed.