The 60,000 km path to discovery

0:00Discussion keeps the world's turning. This is Round Table. Highways in China used to be nothing more than practical strips of tarmac. Build for speed, efficiency, and moving boxes from point A to B. But today, across the country, these once-ordinary routes are being reimagined as experiences worth savoring. With thousands of miles of thoughtfully designed byways turning travel into something far more immersive. So what happens when the drive itself becomes the destination, and the journey stops being just a means and starts being the memory? Coming to you from our studios in Beijing, this is Round Table. I'm Steve Hatterley. Thank you so much for being with us for this episode. And for the show, I'm with Yushan and Yangya. First up. Yes, China just introduced something very new. This is a huge, huge network of roads, up to 60,000 kilometers as a matter of fact that include a lot of different loops and corridors.

1:06And it's a way to get from point A to point B to point C, D, E, F, G all around the country. It's called the implementation plan for high quality self-drive tourism highways. And it's a direct response. It's a big bet on something already happening here in the country, and that's road trips. It's a way that people love to spend their time during vacation. Alright, so let's get into it. This is a pretty big announcement, I suppose, with a lot of details to this plan. Yeah, announced by the Chinese Ministry of Transport just very recently in August, actually. Like you said, it's formally entitled as the implementation plan for high quality scenic routes, tourism highways, as translated into English. So basically you can understand it as a new highway network here in China that we're mapping out nationwide. And it's roughly 60,000 kilometers long adding up together. And it's organized as, well, we can conclude it as three loops for east to west routes and five north to south routes.

2:08I'm trying to envision that three loops east to west and then north to south. So it would look like a dartboard kind of in a way, and it's this huge connecting, huge connecting loop. I guess some of those loops or corridors would be to showcase some of the beauty that China has in its countrysides and cityscapes and things that it's well known for. I'm thinking like the Great Wall or the Youngster River or things like that. Totally, for the loops, for example, one is very close to us. One is surrounding Beijing with Beijing as the core. And the rest is like on the eastern side, the Tangent, the Tangent municipality. And then on the north-side in Mongolia, it's connected with several very famous tourism destination, like cities within the Mongolia Autonomous Region. And then even to the south-side of that loop, and at the north-side of Shanxi Province, where a lot of the very ancient architecture is featured.

3:08There's one loop that's very close to us. And then there's other loops including China's border and eastern coastal area. That's one loop that connects a lot of the coastal cities like Shanghai, Qingdao and Shandong Province in eastern China. And also in Fuzhou and Zhuhai, which is approaching the south all the way until Haina and Island in the city of Sanya. Really, that far. There's another south of China. So that's how the, you can tell, that's how the route is mapping out and putting together several tourism spots in one line. Yang Yang, we should clear this up though. When we say new and then 60,000 kilometer network of roads, people might get the idea that, oh boom, suddenly China's building brand new highways, brand new roads that are 60,000 kilometers in total. But that's a little bit true, but not entirely true. Because when I first look at the 60,000 numbers and those like loops, it seems that massive, it's like grand.

4:08But actually as a matter of fact, when I look deeper, it's actually taking advantage of the existing road network because China has one of the largest road networks in the world. So even if you want to build new roads, there's a little room for you to do that. So the plan basically just like a given roads, different possibilities and also given roads like an update, including services, and maybe if the two roads are like, you know, close to each other and you can build a new road linking them together. So it's not like building 60,000 roads from scratch, but it's basically a makeover and a rearrangement of those existing roads. There's a lot of different layers to this too, right? What is needed in between in those roads? For example repair stations, you're going to need more of those. They're also going to make rental pickups for cars, at airports and train stations, a lot easier. They're going to have more charging infrastructure, which we're going to touch on a little bit later, and also emergency medical access.

5:14So this is kind of like, I guess you could say, filling in the gaps in a sense of, well, the roads themselves, you said, young, young, that some of these highways were not connected before. And if that's the case, yes, those highways did exist, but the new roads will be the ones that connect them. So in that sense, it would be filling in the gaps there. And then the other gaps being filled in are the things that I mentioned repair stations, charging stations, things of that nature. Yeah, I would imagine, because in today's context, when we use, for example, A-Map or by-do-Map or some of those map systems, sometimes you will be directed into weird places if you leave the transportation system within the city or beyond the highways and expressways. Sometimes it will get you to like, country roads, small country roads, or even roads that were not meant for vehicles for cars in the first place. So the purpose of joining these different destinations together also includes, like, for example, there is an existing country road, but it's also a very important, like, a bridge between point A and point B.

6:23If we want to connect these two parts together, we got to sort of build new, but yet we have something to build on top of. So that's like a renovation or an update of the existing smaller roads. So previously then, you know, you use A-Map as an example. If you use A-Map in a city in downtown Beijing, it's going to direct you perfectly where to go to pinpoint location. But you're saying that if you use it outside in the countryside, maybe what shows on the map and what shows on the roads might be a little bit confusing for people? Sometimes I see complaints online. It doesn't always have to be A-Map to take the blame, but sometimes those mapping systems will guide you towards a seemingly road, but end up to be somebody's house, like in the countryside. The only time I've had trouble with A-Map actually within the city itself is when you get into the Hutones. Oh gosh, I got lost in there for about an hour one day, but that's part of the fun. Also one thing about those like mapping system, it's built on algorithm. And the logic of algorithm is like it's built on efficiency.

7:29It gives you the direction and also point out the roads with maybe the shortest amount of mileage, but it's not necessarily built on the tourism, like kind of logic. So if you want to enjoy as many scenarios as you can around the road, the mapping system may not be the best choice for you. Well, now that you mentioned that, you know, not built for tourism, I think that we can say that about this entire highway network that we have here in China, because yeah, well, first of all, I want to say this too, you know, 60,000 kilometers network with road A now being able to connect to road B. This isn't going to happen overnight. This is going to take some time. There's actually two different timelines. They're going to use here. One is cross regional where you'll have the long distance routes. They hope those should be largely in place by 2030. And then the full system should be good to go by 2035. But yeah, back to the point, you know, when China built its highway system initially, it was not designed with tourism in mind at all.

8:33And not really, if I can recall from the earliest memory that I was told, which are the memories belonging to my grandfather, who used to be the first batch of China's truck drivers in Western China's Xinjiang, Wigur Autonomous Region, back then highway or public roads were just dusty little routes that trucks drive by. There were no private cars back then. So trucks drive by leaving the tires marks and gradually that becomes a road after multiple repetition of that process. So nowadays we're talking about highways and that can date back to a little bit further since the first expressway opened in 1988. That's when China built one of the world's largest expressway networks in just 33 years. But the original purpose was very economic just to connect Montanier's area with another Montanier's area were village to village, like for example, in my grandpa's case, he was the truck driver among a lot of other drivers in his team to deliver fruits and rice like wheat powder like daily necessities from one city to nearby villages.

9:44So that's what people's lives were based on. That was what those roads were for. But that's 60 years ago. So apparently a few decades ago around 1988 and 1990s, that's when we start to develop economically. We need to faster afraid to better connect it regional development and stronger transport links to support a rapidly growing economy, of course. There was something in the 1990s called and this was a this was a key early milestone in the development of the highway system. It was called the five vertical seven horizontal plan. What was that about? Well, it's like a 12 major truck routes. It's five running north to south and seven running east to west. So it's like five vertical seven horizontal. It covers about 35,000 kilometers and is approved in 1992. It was a key milestone. And I think with the rapid development of China, people have this kind of saying that goes like, if you want to be rich, you have to build roads first.

10:47So that was like all of those highway systems and like road network are for just for economic development and people can have better connectivity between different regions, mega cities to rural areas as well. But it was done for economic reasons, I think, is the point, right? Connecting the capital to every other provincial capital, the capital Beijing, I mean to every other provincial capital plus the special economic zones and the major transport hubs and everything in between. It was essentially the first coordinated kind of skeleton. If you call it that, yeah, for the for the entire country. And they did it pretty fast, too, because by the end of 2007. The country had 54,000 kilometers of network highway network done and it was completed 13 years ahead of schedule. It's pretty speed. Pretty impressive. Yeah, done it China speed exactly.

11:49So if you managed to find some spot along the road while you were traveling from point A to point B and discover, wow, this has actually has tourism value. Then yeah, lucky you. It was not meant for the highways back then was just meant as a way of connection. Yeah. It's kind of a chicken and egg type situation isn't it, which came first. Because the highways came along in the 1990s. Yeah, first one was built in 1988. But along with the development of the highway network, along came the cars. Yeah. And there was a big boom in the number of cars in the country, too. Well, yeah, especially nowadays, road trip. It's such a big deal in today's tourism framework, at least here in China. And road trips, it's not only becoming popular, actually, they've become dominant. The number of road trips has exceeded 60% of all domestic trips every year ever since 2017.

12:49So this data is called it from 2024. I don't know. Seven years in a row. I don't know why I find that surprising, though. I think it's because whenever I talk with my co-workers here, I've never heard anyone say they're going on a road trip. They're always saying, oh, I'm going to, you know, even if it's a domestic trip, they say like, oh, I'm going to fly or I'm going to take the train or something like that. I've never heard anyone say they're going on a road trip. So that's why I was surprised to hear what did you say? Self-drive travel, which by the way is not self-driving cars. Yeah, no. Yeah, it can be a little confusing. Has exceeded 60% of all domestic trips since 2017. But it proves the point, doesn't it? Is that this boom in domestic travel has been around for a long time. And then that shift happened at the same time that the number of cars was growing in the country too. A lot more people were driving. So to have this development now of 60,000 kilometers of networked roads is kind of, they're not doing this to create a road trip boom. They're responding to what's already happening. They're already has been a road trip boom.

14:05Yes, well, it's only natural because when you got people have a lot of cars and when you got people have time and you also have this kind of existing road network. This in road trips is just a natural thing to happen. And also besides the road besides the car ownerships, there's a lot of like services catching up as well. So I've seen data that shows that there are over like two nearly 300,000 existent. And then existing camping related enterprises running thousands of camps all cross China as of this August. So even in remote areas like a serum lake in Xinjiang, you can see those like camping services which offer charging water and also electricity for over nice days. So in other words, you have all of those like things ready and road trips. And it's just like they're a natural thing to happen. Yeah, there's a stretch of highway in China where Chinese people say you have to take this trip before, you know, well, that serum lake is one of the destinations that's so popular on social media nowadays because one very famous person perhaps said if you haven't been to serum lake, you've wasted your life.

15:23Like that. I'm viral. Everybody's dramatic. I'm not wasting my life. I'm here. You see him here. And then another yeah on highway. There's a one particular highway called G318. Yeah, from Shanghai. All the way to the west to Tibet when it comes to talking about the local culture and stuff. Yeah, so connecting the very huge metropolitan of Shanghai with the people there in Xi Jinping trying out all the Tibetan style of food and Tibetan culture and the way they celebrate their new year and stuff. That's like a dream go to for so many people throughout general like a once in a lifetime. Yeah. Yeah, it's one of the most of famous section of this road is the Sichuan to see down section. It's about over 2000 kilometers. It's from Chengdu to Lasa. And when you drive on this road, you will pass through river quarges, L-piling for as grasslands, galacical lakes, Galatia.

16:29There's snow cap peaks and all of those amazing sceneries along the road. So it's really like a various epic road for you to take and what's more amazing about it. It's typically driven over eight to 12 days. And because there are a lot of like altitude changing. And this kind of a to 12 days is very suitable for you to adapt to this altitude change. So you won't feel uncomfortable like driving this road. So it's like there's also one of the many reasons why people recommend this route. Technology is making it easier, I guess, for people to plan their trips and book their trips and kind of coordinate everything they need to do. Social media, I guess, plays a big role with that as well. Social media plays a big role on influencing a lot of people's decision and shaping a lot of our plans nowadays, especially when it comes to tourism. Because now you see what it's like. And it just draws your passion on somewhere you probably never know or heard of before.

17:30So for example, on BilliBilly, they have collectively drawn around 650 million views via just a cross-border self-drive travel videos. So before you might think, why would I drive somewhere if I can take this like the high speed train. And now after people see people photographing themselves, what they encounter, what kind of food they run into, and what kind of experience they collected without planning, people realize the charm of just how you can drive and have fun along the way. Those are the best moments, the unexpected moments. I mean, of course. Yeah, you go on a big road trip, you want to plan a bunch of stuff, yeah, but I mean unexpected restaurants where you find some delicious food or encounters with locals that you didn't know were going to happen. It's part of the charm of road trips. By the way, have either of you ever done a big road trip before? Well, no, not that like G318, that kind of stuff, but I think it's common for us to take, you know, to drive to maybe nearby town and nearby cities, and that is more common.

18:42And I've done the one day type, like go to a nearby mountain scenic spot that's in the outskirt of Beijing or even in Hubei and then drive back within the same day, something like that. Well, actually the statistics back up what both of you just said, this is from national tourism data from 2024. 70% of trips are short trips nearby trips. Yeah, last under 12 hours and cover less than 80 kilometers. So if we, you know, add one plus one, maybe we can deduce that those trips were so short or not that far away from home base because there wasn't a 60,000 kilometer network of roads that made it a lot more comfortable and convenient for people to go on longer journeys because maybe that's the thing. If you build it, they will come type idea, you know, put the network together and then people will venture further away from home base because they know that they can get from the extreme north of the country all the way down to the extreme south of the country in a scenic route along the coast for an example that would encourage them to take those types of trips.

20:02Also, I think now is the perfect time for us to really talk about the possibility of making this all happen. I think our country has realized it too because previously, for example, my very first road trip experience with my friends instead of with family was on a rental car, kind of like a booking. We rented a gas car comparing with EV because we were so afraid that the EV, that was like four or five, if not six years ago, we were so afraid that we wouldn't be able to run any charging pole on our way towards even the near outerscares of Beijing. That would have been a legit concern for a lot of people when it comes to EVs, yeah, at that time. Yeah. Nowadays, as we see, the NEV now make up more than 30% of the fleet at one of the leading car rental platforms called Xinzhou Car Rental companies. They are taking the lead, acting out and including more and more EV in their car rental business.

21:08That's a clear sign saying that this actually is no longer a challenge for them nowadays. People don't really need to worry too much about, well, if there's any place for me to charge, because now, as you mentioned earlier, in a few years time, we're going to build more charging poles along these 60,000 designated travel highway and expressways too. So that's something the service wise to consider. Yeah. The reason I said I want to come back to this a little bit later is because, yes, there's 23 million charging stations in the country now, 23 million charging points. Roughly 98% coverage at highway service stations. But what I didn't expect to find out is that the charging boom, if we can call it a charging boom, comes with a bit of a debate attached to it. Well, not everyone agrees that the charging infrastructure should rush along famous routes, for example, like the G318.

22:08Thank you very much. Purely about travelers needs. It was Chinese tech media, actually, that reported real concern from the people who watch the industry very, very closely. And they reported that multiple EV companies are racing to install these charging stations along that particular stretch of highway, specifically because of the routes, market value and public attention, not necessarily because of the traffic volume that just defies it. So it raises the question about whether some of this, you know, is built out of necessity or whether it's built out of a branding land grab, if you will, just getting that space for your own company before the traffic starts to come along behind it. Yeah, well, that's legit concerns because, you know, companies are profit driven that when they see this opportunity, they want to move ahead. And when they see this, there's opportunity for charging, they will start to build a lot of them. It's always like being earlier is always better than being later.

23:18Yeah, but the argument is that if you're going to put so many of these charging stations, you're going to install them and the companies are just putting them there because they think, oh, let's get our charging stations there because these are different companies, right? They might go unused in the future. But then if we look at the other side of that story, sometimes there is not enough charging poles. Like for example, one traveler's account of 900 kilometer EV rolled trips through western China's Sichuan province, they described home stays with only one or two chargers shared among far more EV guests than that. So there were people waking being woke up in the middle of the night because their car is charged and somebody else is waiting. So they call you and wake you up, a movie car, I need to use it now, which is a very fair argument because if if those, yes, so some people say there's going to be too many charging stations, they might go unused. Travelers would probably say as a counterpoint, if those charging stations aren't there, we're not going to use that stretch of road in the first place, perhaps.

24:27Which every year, I think, anytime within the past few years, of course, companies and industry inside there is the probably will focus or forecast on the concern of if we're building too many charging poles. But again, we're always talking about this on the show. There are more and more EVs on the road. And then there's a lot of road memories. Heinem is canceling the selling of gas car within the province. What if in the future there actually are more and more EV in need of charging poles on those very famous popular tourism destination expressways in the future. And that's what people say who argue with the people who make the overpopulated charging station argument. And that's not the roads themselves because as we mentioned, not all of these roads are new. Some of them are pre-existing, but some of for some of these roads, it's like giving them a second life, so to speak. Because local areas are encouraged to build more camping grounds, they're encouraged to offer more educational trips, sporting events is listed as well as possibilities.

25:31And all of these things would be along these travel routes to encourage travelers to go there, which of course is an important point because, yep, no charging stations might not go if you have an EV. But also, if there's nothing to do along that route, people might not go for that reason too. And also, authorities are eroding out the permanent pavement road building technique using thicker, more durable surface thing engineer to handle heavy traffic loads. So it's also about making roads safer and more durable and more technological. And also for some areas, the authorities use technology that can like predict the risk in the roads and also using use the real-time data to manage traffic flows that is also very important for travelers on the road. Safety is always the first thing to be concerned. Is that what they call a smart highway? Yes, smart highway. I found one very interesting example.

26:33That's in Lushan tourist highway in East China, Stancy Province. So Lushan, as a lot of Chinese people know, is something that ancient poetry, praise and rights about. It's a mysterious, mountainous site that a lot of people travel to. In order to be there, you've got to be on the highway. And what they are doing to the highway is design it smarter. It covers more than 105 kilometers around an up-mount Lushan. And the road is equipped with a smart, fog-sewn guidance system. What's that? It's like, I said mysterious because that mountain area is like foggy. So in order to help you test the way and detect fog whenever it happens, especially on those, you know, the upwards, very curly mountain roads, then this whole smart, fog-sewn guidance system can turn lights, well, actually turn your lights on as vehicles approach and gradually dim them after they pass. So when you drive through the foggy area, there are lights shown saying that, oops, here is a turn.

27:38And after you're gone, the lights disappear. Oh, that's like the lights in your house when you walk into a room, the lights will turn on. And then when you walk out, they'll turn off motion sensors. They've also got radar sensors that sharp bends. That can detect vehicles approaching from the opposite direction. Like sometimes when you cross at a very narrow turn, and it's a dual direction crossway, you're going this way, and there are some other cars going facing you. So in a foggy weather, it's hard to see. So what these sensors do is they will kind of detect it and tell you with visual warning, and also I think they have alarm systems, like audio systems, just to remind you, behind or actually before you hit every blind spot. So I think that we probably could have considered before, but now it's all integrated as a part of a smart system in terms of constructing new highways like this. What about the towns themselves that exist along these stretches of roads?

28:42Because now the expectation is that there will be a lot more tourists traveling on those roads, having fun on their road trips. So I guess the economic benefit for the towns along the way is going to be pretty significant. Yes, well, they're getting real economic benefits along the roads. That statistic shows that the road trip travelers spend roughly 30% more than the national average for domestic tourists. Well, that's very natural because the road trip travelers need to spend on hotels, restaurants, maybe when they see the attraction around the road, they need to pay for that and also camping, shopping, so not just fuel and rentals, so they're spending more. And those like economic benefits are ripped by those towns and also even rural areas when you have this like folk experience and we have the natural scenery. Well, those rural areas will also get benefits from the development of those road trips.

29:44Speaking of which, my father and his good old Ray Tariy gangs, they are right now in Western China's Xinjiang Weigh autonomous region. Oh, road trip. Doing such a road trip. And they are two stop at the very famous Du Kuo Highway tomorrow. But even before that, they travel all the way from L Tai to some of the very popular scenic spots on the mountains and they're going through grasslands. And they drove. They drove. How long did it take them? Well, up till now, they're driving half. Oh, there's only four days already. Oh, it's on the road. They rented a local like a big Jeep car or something. Amazing. And you can see sometimes it's like bumpy. Like people are almost puking afterwards. Sometimes it's just very playing roads with very super, super beautiful sights along the road. And the best thing is that every time they stop, there's always very interestingly designed local restaurants featuring Xinjiang or Weeger culture or Hasek culture locally.

30:51You can try the cuisine there. You can try the nung like bread made by local people, the local ethnic groups. You can basically chat with local families too. That's what they do these days. It's amazing. Sometimes they change their plan at the end of the day for the next day. And you never know where they'll end up at. Yeah, so better road conditions, upgraded road conditions, upgraded road and highway facilities along the way that can turn towns into stopping places. Yeah. You know, your dad and his buddies, would they have stopped there before? Would they have even taken a trip like this? Well, yeah, but not this far. Right? And they do that because I guess at least in part because the facilities allow them to do that. Right. Now, that being said, when you have a project of this size, 60,000 kilometers, it has to come with some real concerns too. And I'm thinking that one of the concerns would be on the environmental side.

31:53Is that a fair point to make? You know, the limitations, I suppose. You've got a lot more cars on the road. You have a lot more traffic on the roads. Is that going to be okay? Well, some parts says no. For example, in Daocheng, Yangteng, Instatuan, it's a UNESCO World Biosphere Reserve and National Nature Reserve. It's also one of the most famous self-drive destinations in western China. But recently it banned private vehicles from its core 38 kilometer route entirely this year. Local says, Yeah, there's too many cars and the area's ecosystem is extremely fragile and slow to recover. So if you have a large volume of tourist and cars running in this place, well, it could risk damage to the wildlife, vegetation, soil, water, and air, everything. So that is what they do. They ban the cars from entering. But also this kind of move triggered real public backlash over like a shuttle pricing because when you ban a car.

33:00Oh, with the tourists. Yes, because it is still a tourist destination. A tourist wants to find a way in. So the local authorities decide that, well, since you cannot drive here, we have the shuttle bus for you. So you can take the shuttle bus and have a tour around this. Is it free? No. Well, that is the central debate because the tourists are arguing the shuttle bus pricing is not reasonable because it's too expensive. So it's kind of like the balance between the tourist demand and also the environmental protection. Although the latest news suggests that the area is planning to introduce a series of measures, you know, including lower the transportation fees, limiting access for private vehicles. Through reservation system and offering free admissions on selected occasions. I think this is also one of the cases that warn us that when you have this road trips, like be aware of the environmental damages and be aware of how can you take care of the tourist using like better services.

34:09And also, maybe, you know, just better shuttle buses. That's what they're apologizing and making a promise of, I think, for Dalton Yadding's case. They're allowing a car entrance now, but under a registration system. I think that was a very recent announcement from the scenic spots in July saying that, yeah, cars can enter, but you kind of need a register. And if the list is full for today, you got a register for another day, something like that. Like movie theater tickets. If they're sold out, they're sold out. Has our chat inspired either of you to maybe call up a few friends, jump in the car, book a trip on the G318. G318 is too big. I'm more interested in the circling Beijing route. I'm very, very much looking forward to just me as the driver drive my car and drive more than one day to experience what really self drive road trip means.

35:17Me too. Also, the G318 is like too grand for me, but it definitely can be on my travel list. And also, maybe I'm not a person who love to drive, but I really love to be in the backseat talking with my friends. I have a driver's license though. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense, right? If you have such an extensive network of roads and then you have the infrastructure on those roads, you know, enough charging stations, enough of fuel stations, enough restaurants, enough places for you to stop and take pictures, scenic spots as well, then people will go and use it. It's not a new trend per se, the self drive trip or road trip, but yet it's growing. And I think it's just an amazing thing. And why wouldn't you take an advantage of it? Because China is so diverse in its landscape. It's diverse in its food. It's diverse in its language. It's diverse in its people.

36:20So if you have the opportunity to jump in a car and go slow, go slow and experience all of it, I think that's the best way to get around. Thank you.