The Characters Of The Greatest Story Of All Time Daniel Grace's In The Wake Of Golgatha

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Hello, arrow.

Hey, Daniel.

How are you doing today?

Yes, fantastic.

I'm excited to chat with you.

Oh, man, when you use that word fantastic, I know that street you speak, so therefore that

means you live it not just now, but every day.

There you go.

It also speaks to you not a caffeine that I drink.

Listen to you.

We got to talk about the book cover and the reason why is because I see so much, I am

a book cover horror.

I'm going to tell you that right now.

And what I see upon your book cover here, which would draw me instantly to it, I love

the fact that you have Daniel on the left side, grace on the other and what could be the

Joshua tree or the burning bush in the middle with novel is that the fruit.

I mean, you've got so much energy on this front cover that it inspires the imagination

to say, what's going on here?

Thank you.

That's a great setup.

You know, to me, the tree, you've got to go back to the symbolic element of Eden and

the tree of life and all the way through the role of trees and every religion throughout

history is so fascinating.

And yet to take the antithesis view of a tree of almost this dark, dare I say dead, reaching

dramatic tree, I just kind of sent chills up my spine when I work with my design team

down.

I'd call a book to create it.

I thought, oh, my goodness.

And with hands reaching out from, you know, from, from below was something pretty dramatic.

See, and that's what I love about it when a book cover comes together because a lot of

readers don't understand the process that we go through, you know, because we can put

words on a page, but when it comes to that cover, it's so important.

And I do want listeners to understand this is not necessarily a story, a book of religion.

This is a literary crime fiction here.

I mean, dude, you really, you cross over into an area that I don't think I've ever touched

before.

I hope that's a good thing.

Yes, yes.

You know, it's so interesting when, when I was kind of confronted with this fascination

of these two historically damned biblical characters of Judas Iscariot and Pontius Pilate,

what was so fascinating as I, as I tiptoed down this lane was, was not wanting to write

kind of a religious tale, right?

This is really a story about, you know, two characters that have been kind of lynched

by history and religion and culture and kind of reimagine their, their timeless tumble,

right?

And it's an interesting tightrope.

It was an interesting dance to kind of go down this path and the intention being, you

know, not to kind of lean into the religious despite the fact these are two, you know, clearly

religious characters whose roles were paramount and fulfilling kind of the greatest story.

And yet really, I wanted to write a story about, about crime and punishment, about guilt

and redemption.

What I love about this is I have written for 34 years with my daily writing and I, I

am a true believer that we are not in this present place of now without having a history

before us, which then takes me writing to Buddhism, which means we've lived this life

before.

And this is to see that that Pontus as well as Judah is in this storyline, I'm going,

I knew it.

I knew I wasn't the only one that was going to do this in, in the way of understanding

that we travel through history and, and Judah as, as Jude is a car and, and, and Pontus

as, as Peter Fiverr, this is perfect shoes that you have them placed in.

You know, and ultimately, again, because this is, this is also a story about every man.

This is a story that you and I, the story about kind of our own past sins and future

redemption and kind of that echo through history and, and what do we do with that?

And, and what do we do in our own journey and quest for redemption?

Do we live in this sort of cyclical spin of guilt or, or can we break through?

Do we reach out?

Do we seek help?

And that's why kind of touching on, on aspects of, of friendship, of, of addiction,

all right?

Of violence.

This is, this is an uncomfortable story, and, and that I felt was worth having a second

look at, because ultimately, it's also a story about second chances.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, well, you definitely plant that seed in the way that, okay, we are in this moment

of now, and how many chances are we begging for every day?

I mean, I think we're on third, fourth, fifth, and tenth chance, dude.

I, I think I'm well past that.

I think I'm on 19.

Please do not move.

There's more with Daniel Grace coming up next.

The name of the book, in the wake of Golgotha, we are back with author, Daniel Grace.

One of the most powerful things that you put inside these pages, and I love this, discomfort

is paramount.

We can question mythology, and, and see, I like that because we, we can, we can, as readers,

we can sit there, kind of put the book down and go, huh, which I always call that my grand

mother's remark to anything that happens in lunch is, huh, and, and you do that, you

play it the, huh, in motion.

You know, and I, and I think that's important, and I think in, you know, whether it's history

or whether it's current events for that matter or whether it's religion or mythology,

you know, there's two sides to every story, right?

And I think oftentimes, especially with, with religious tales, I think they become through

time two-dimensional, and it becomes maybe a crush, maybe a pillow, and there's a lot

of benefit to that.

But at the same time, you look at the power of these stories, and to me, if I were to

embrace these stories, which I do, then I think it's worth having a hard look at it,

right?

And I think when you're talking about religion, you know, that's a bloody history, and

that's an uncomfortable history.

And so when I talk about discomfort, right, when, when I'm, you know, kind of thinking

about crime and punishment, when we're thinking, I dare I say the word crucifixion, right?

Which so many of us, I don't want to say we take the granted, but it's, do we think

about the brutality of the act, do we think about the violence involved, that the origins

of every religion?

And I think it's, what I felt was important was to, you know, embrace that violence, embrace

that strength, embrace that weakness, to truly appreciate every step that was taken

along the way.

As that writer, how did you embrace it?

Because I can get a little squirrelly sitting in my writing chair.

You know, that's a, that's a good question.

My perspective was, you know, every time I sat down to write, kind of my, I have sort

of this motto, right, it's, it's kind of my writing mantra, and it's, it's find a dark,

uncomfortable space, you know, get lost in it.

So, so for me, it was a question of, you know, almost getting into character.

If you will, right?

And, and kind of going back into history, or when we're talking about, you know, drug

overdoses on the streets of modern day New York City, or talking about the Cushion Chamber

of it, you know, in modern times, you know, really, you know, looking at the dust on the

floor, right, looking at the, at the blood stains in the, in the needle or on the pavement.

And so, you know, not taking that almost romantic, fanciful view that, you know, oftentimes

this is just sort of white washed, if you will.

And so, to me, discomfort is, that's a good thing, right?

And I think, you know, I think we live in an age where there are certain topics that,

you know, we, we, we, we can't approach or we can't talk when it comes to discomfort

and religion is one of them, every religion, I think, you know, to me, there's, there's

greater value if, if we get dirty in those conversations.

So now then, when you talk about that discomfort, word has it that you went to the top of the

hill, did you feel discomfort up there because I sit there and you, it makes me wonder

myself.

If I went physically to that point in history that so many millions know, what would

I feel if I were on top of that hill?

And I think I would feel discomfort.

So, in the wake of Golgotha, right?

So Golgotha is just for you listeners who may not be aware, Golgotha is, is, is

the tower hill.

Yes.

It's the razor at the top of the, the, the, the, the peak of the summit of Christ Crucifixion.

It's only 1,600 feet with a small hill, but it's the most infamous hill and, and I'm

someone having, having traveled up that, the endola rosa and, and someone who's scaled

mountains and, you know, Kilimanjaro and the, the dolomite and the Alves in Europe and

so to eat these journeys, again, it goes back to that, that discomfort, right?

It's not a trek.

It's, you're getting into spaces where the oxygen is, is thin.

Yeah.

And when you start reassessing the characters that were responsible of, you know, ultimately

for Christ Crucifixion and, and kind of their, their lynching and history, that, that

air can get very tight, right?

You feel that, that little bit less oxygen in your, in your brain because you're daring

to step on places where your subconscious is saying, hey, this is taboo, taboo to questions

you think.

And I think it's in those moments of sort of slightly restricted oxygen that I think

you, there's that can shine, right?

And I think that's where you start to find a, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not

a different truth, but you're shining a different light on what you thought you knew.

I just love where your heart is.

10 minutes with you is never going to be enough.

So I have to say, please come back to this show and just know in your heart that the

door is always going to be open for you, Daniel.

I am such a fan of your written word.

Well, I appreciate it, Aaron.

And I look forward to it.

Thanks for taking the time to just chat briefly about the, my work and the wake of

call.

Do you be brilliant today, okay, sir?

Thank you so much.